Chicago Racing (track info inside)

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
Do you happen to know what rules set the 1/12th guys were following (# of cells, type of motor)? I've just about got my 1/12th car together, and I'm trying to figure out where the racing will be (Venture or AJ's).

I'm really not the best person to answer your question, although I think they run 4 cells and the heats are 8 minutes. I believe it's any motor you want for 1/12th scale as one guy was absolutely lapping the field, although that guy (I think his name is Dave) told me he races 1/12th scale at the Worlds.

Check out the Venture Raceways thread.

Venture Raceways thread (http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=563121#post563121)

mattd and nanook are the 1/12th scale guys that I see on the board a lot.

They've raced 1/12th scale for the last 4 weeks or so, but to be honest, the number of people that race has fluctuated. Some weeks it's 3 people, some weeks it's 4, some weeks there's only 2 and that's not enough to support a class. Yesterday's 1/12th scale class had about 6-8 people and that's the most I've ever seen. Hopefully that's a sign that the class is growing. I think what happened is that people post on that messageboard who's going to show up and for what class so people will sort of know what classes will be raced.

I don't race 1/12th scale, but it would be cool to see more people in that class on a regular basis, especially a fast driver like yourself, walt! I know some of the regulars would love to have more people show up so that the class could be raced regularly.
Just remember that Venture is closed till Nov 15th.

oh yeah, I hear AJ's has an excellent 1/12th scale turnout, but I've only been there once, and it was for outdoors. Not sure about Trackside.

[Asahi]

do you guys play any 1/10 on road indoor?

recently I got a tamiya mini cooper, just wondering if anyone play this class in chicago

[Euge]

Originally posted by Asahi
do you guys play any 1/10 on road indoor?

Venture Raceways, AJ's Raceway, and Trackside all have 1/10th scale indoor carpet.

Venture used to do a mini cooper class, but I haven't seen it raced since the spring.

[Asahi]

Where are those race tracks? I live in the Chicago city, so I'm not quite familiar with those suburbs race tracks.

Can someone give me the street address of those tracks? So that I can get the direction from mapquest.


So actually no one is playing the mini cooper class now?
I love the mini cooper so much, it is so much fun to drive it :)

[Rookie Solara]

Walt......if I can choose, Venture is much closer for me.....however, this remodeling might make the track bigger or better....

When are you going to the AJ track.....? I am still a little while to put the car together....I have the ESC, chassis and tires....still need the MOTOR spec and some REAL BATTERIES (I have several set of batteries that are......8-10 years old.....they still run, for like 2-3 minutes....)

[Nexus]

Asahi.

The Tinley Park and Hobby Town Oak Park guys mainly run nitro's.

If you talk to guys (like euge and i)who mainly race at Venture, AJ's, or Trackside you'll find mostly electric guys.

Trackside - http://www.trackside.com

Venture Raceway - http://ventureraceways.com/

AJ's Raceway - http://www.ajsraceway.com/

trackside is really the only one with an up to date website. all are excellent tracks for 1/10 TC, 1/12th scale, ect.

you can find forums for those tracks on rctech.net

Venture is undergoing changes that will make it even better.


as far as the cooper....i know trackside and venture did some mini cooper racing last year. classes form depending on who/what shows up....the most popular being 1/10 TC stock rubber or foam and 1/12th scale stock or mod.

you will see occasional mini cooper or even F1 cars.

[Euge]

Hey Asahi,

If you're into Tamiya's there's a good number of guys who race 1/10th scale Tamiya's at Venture. The track store does not carry Tamiya parts, but yesterday there were at least three Tamiya Evo's racing stock rubber.

One cool thing about Trackside is that they have a computer monitor mounted so that people spectating or in the pits can see lap times.

[Asahi]

wow, trackside is even in Wisconsin..... it is so far away...

[Rookie Solara]

Asahi.......if you are from downtown area...HTOP is your nearest track, however, there are no outdoor or indoor elect touring there....they only race MICRO on Thursday now, so, may be you should consider getting a micro and race untill the next season begins.

TINLEY PARK is about 35 minutes from Chicago....

Venture........Libertyville, check with Mapquest, should be 45-50 minutes.

AJ......I don't even want to tell you....at least 1 hour plus (Dekalb...near Northern Illinois University)

[Asahi]

thanks for the info solara.

I got a micro too, in fact, I'm the guy who talk with you on the other chinese rc forum.

I went to Tinley Park a few times during the summer.

[Rookie Solara]

Asahi:..........I've got a feeling you are the guy I talked to on the RCMODEL.com.hk guy......

Well, you know I am from HK, and so does HK_Serpent.....when you come by (HTOP every Thursday).....we can talk more.

Since you have your MICRO already.........there is NO REASON for you NOT to show up to the micro race on WEDNESDAY (at Tinley Park) or Thursday (at HobbyTown Oak Park).....

I will show you what you need to race MICRO....professionally.

After some races, then you can step up to Euge/Nexus stage for Elect Touring..........or Walt/I stage 1/12th pan car....

Then Summer.........NITRO season....1/10 Nitro Touring or 1/10 235mm Serpent 835.....or better yet....1/8th GAS on-road.

If you still have money left........of course, CHOPPER........F-16 jet or RC submarine..........

Then......forget about the toy, get yourself a CBR or Ducartti....or 911 Twin Turbo...............

(sorry..........a little bit off topic there... just race MICRO with us for now....LOL)

[Rookie Solara]

Mab_man20........I will have a used (less then 10 times) Novak Spy for sale like this weekend...let me know you want to give it a try or not (or buy a new one).

[Rkmori]

Hey kakolitoy,

So did you decide yet........"To micro" or "Not to micro" ?????

[mab_man20]

Rookie: Yeah im interested. how much?

I think its the reciever. I noticed that the case snapped back together when i pushed down on it, hinting that it hit something. I will do some surgery tonight and pray I can get it working.


Derrin mentioned this spring that he wanted to expand into the space next door and make an even bigger track. Is that what they are doing?

Asahi: Let me know if you need info on the HTOP track (i.e. directions, times)

[Rookie Solara]

Mab_man20....I will bring over next week (not this week cause I don't know I can make it this week)....

It is almost brand new...and was planning to keep it for the 2nd M18 (for my brother...) but he decided not to race now...

[Rkmori]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Then......forget about the toy, get yourself a CBR or Ducartti....or 911 Twin Turbo...............

(sorry..........a little bit off topic there... just race MICRO with us for now....LOL)

I think You are thinking of Mack......

[Nexus]

mab.

darrin and others are keeping the updates somewhat secret...all the rumours are basically bigger track and AMB system that supports personal transponders....but again this is all rumour right now.

this is a quote from darrin on the rctech board....The remodel will make the track one best in the country so let the anticipation build it will be awsome.

[Rkmori]

Originally posted by Asahi
wow, trackside is even in Wisconsin..... it is so far away...

Asahi,

Where are you in Chi. Northside, West side, Southwest Side, Lake Front Gold Coast??????

[Asahi]

I lived near Chicago downtown

[mab_man20]

:in best otter impersonation (animal house people!):

THIS IS GONNA BE GREAT!!!


Venture electric and micro in one winter...should be fun.

[mab_man20]

what is the site for the allycat software?

[chicago rc]

Hey guys, it's Brian from Chicago R/C. I now own a TC3 and plan to do some racing this winter. Less promoting and more racing for a while! I am also changing the web site to reflect ALL INFO on ALL tracks that are out there. I have sent sheets out to all the shops and tracks so once I get them back I will update the site with store & track hours, classes run at each track, what manufacturers they support on site, etc.

I can't keep up with this forum, it's like reading War & Peace, so if anyone on here has good track info, schedules, etc. please e-mail me directly at: brian@chicagorc.com

I want to make www.chicagorc.com one simple site to go when you need to know when to race, where to race, and what to race.

Thanks!

Brian
www.chicagorc.com

[Asahi]

how can I get to the hobby town race track at oak park if I drive from chicago?

[Nexus]

brian.

hope to see you at Venture! TC3...nice choice...euge and i run that car.

most of the humans run stock motor + rubber tires. the super human fast guys run stock motor + foams.

usually the foam A Main is filled with guys like...

Brian Jucha
Timmy Heiser
Kevin Kane
Brian McGreevy
Justin Zorc
ect
ect....not sure if you know those guys or not.

[chicago rc]

I know some of those guys, they sleep with their cars under their pillow at night right? Thanks for the tip, I will get some rubber tires ASAP!

Over the winter I will be training at the track like Rocky did to beat Mr. T, then in Tinley next summer I will woop it up on Howard. Eye of the tiger Rookie :-)

Brian
www.chicagorc.com

[Euge]

Hey Brian, I look forward to seeing you at the track. Keep in mind Venture is closed till Nov 15th. At Venture, the most popular tires are Sorex 28's with red HPI inserts with your choice of rims, I like the Yokomos. Some people run CS27 Takeoffs, but I like the Sorex tires better.

Asahi, check out the Hobbytown Oak Park link on www.chicagorc.com I believe the directions on there are pretty good.

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by mab_man20
what is the site for the allycat software?

If there is a race on HTOP, you have to start up that computer and test run the software now....beside, you have to buy the software to actually do the full race feature, the TEST MODE software only allow 2 cars to run and almost has no other feature can be use from the trail period.....but you can use the LITE version, that one has more feature.

www.alycat.com

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Asahi
how can I get to the hobby town race track at oak park if I drive from chicago?

Easy....get up to 290 (west) and exit on Harlam Avenue, turn right....then turn right at LAKE street (then you are in downtown OAK PARK)....HTOP is on your left. (should be less then 20 minutes from downtown Chicago.....Chinatown area)

For HTOP detail....go to www.chicagorc.com and look under TRACK for HTOP.

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by chicago rc
I know some of those guys, they sleep with their cars under their pillow at night right? Thanks for the tip, I will get some rubber tires ASAP!

Over the winter I will be training at the track like Rocky did to beat Mr. T, then in Tinley next summer I will woop it up on Howard. Eye of the tiger Rookie :-)

Brian
www.chicagorc.com

Dude....you don't have to wait untill next summer and TRY to hang with my car....I too have ELECT car to run and VENTURE is defintely a much closer place for me to go...however, I am not running elect TC........only running 12th scale pan car, hopefully WALT and I can be there shortly....

I still need to know the 12th scale spec is at VENTURE.....if NEXUS or EUGE happened to be there after 15th and saw there is a 12 scale class....can you guys find out what are their spec (most likely what I want to know is motor spec, battery spec, tires compound....etc)

Thanks guy............

P.S. Brian.......Rocky vs Mr. T...? I am more into Jacky Chan vs Jet Li in Matrix style...... do you still remember NEAL (with the YOKOMO and the fastest at Harper?)..does he still race RC at Venture?

[Walt]

Originally posted by mab_man20
what is the site for the allycat software?

It's www.alycat.com (I bet you were putting in one too many 'l's)...

The name is actually an psydo-acronym... Automatic Lap Counting And Timing, with the 'y' put in there so that it actually makes a word.

After a full year of using Alycat, I'm to the point where I'm pretty well versed in it. If you guys would like, maybe I could come to one of your micro races and demo the software for you to help you decide if you want to purchase it or not. Let me know if you are interested. Heck, I wanted to check out your track anyways.

Actually, I recommend that you let me help you get the software installed and make the initial adjustments to your options. After several months of using Alycat, I erased everything and started over because where you put the different files initially can make running the program later much easier (in my opinion). It can also make upgrading to new releases and versions easier if your directory structure is well thought out. I can meet with you guys to help with the initial setup some day after work or something, or just come to one of your races like I mentioned above.

[chicago rc]

I know Venture is closed for the 1st 2 weeks in Nov. And thanks for the tire info, I will pick up the sorex 28's. I have run those before.

As for Jet-Lo (Rookie), part of the information I will be gathering on each track is their set of rules for each class. This project will take a few weeks since these shops and tracks are really bad abut getting me any info. If ALL of you guys kept telling them everytime you were there that they need to have information on chicagorc.com that would help. I am not charging them any money for this so they have no excuse not to work with me.

And yes Howard, Neil still runs at Venture, and he is still very fast!

Brian
www.chicagorc.com

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by chicago rc
I know Venture is closed for the 1st 2 weeks in Nov. And thanks for the tire info, I will pick up the sorex 28's. I have run those before.

As for Jet-Lo (Rookie), part of the information I will be gathering on each track is their set of rules for each class. This project will take a few weeks since these shops and tracks are really bad abut getting me any info. If ALL of you guys kept telling them everytime you were there that they need to have information on chicagorc.com that would help. I am not charging them any money for this so they have no excuse not to work with me.

And yes Howard, Neil still runs at Venture, and he is still very fast!

Brian
www.chicagorc.com

Jet-Lo...........ok, another name that I need to write down, just in case I ended up a boy...I will name him that way so when on his 5 years old Birthday I can buy him a RTR NTC10, so he can beat you in Nitro touring......(just kidding)....

Yeah, set up a rules(spec) webpage will help......however, like EUGE said, 12th scale is a odd class there, it might have 8 one day, and 1 ppl on the other day.........but at AJ, I heard they have easily 2-3 classes of 12th scale.......that is a garantee.

Brian....I think you should get yourself a used MICRO or when I get the M18, I can sell you one........you MUST try MICRO, it is a lot of fun (please.....no one race E-Maxx or T-maxx anymore, we don't do RADIO SHACK type car racing here in Chicago)

[chicago rc]

Come on Howard, this is America where we have lots of land to race big monster trucks on. No need to play with little toys. If I enjoy the TC3 over the winter I will consider getting a micro. I woud like to actually race any of the 3 vehicles I already own before I start buying Mini-T's or Micro's though!


http://www.chicagorc.com/photos/rcca_1.jpg

Brian
www.chicagorc.com

[Euge]

wow, I've never seen a TC3 look that small! heheheheh

Speaking of AJ's, I will probably be going there this sunday to race. I'll let you know what the turnout for 12th scale is like. I hope that there's a good turnout for stock rubber.

[Euge]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
I still need to know the 12th scale spec is at VENTURE.....if NEXUS or EUGE happened to be there after 15th and saw there is a 12 scale class....can you guys find out what are their spec (most likely what I want to know is motor spec, battery spec, tires compound....etc)

I don' t mind asking, but I think the best way is to ask on the Venture messageboard. I know the 12th scale guys are on there.

Venture Raceways thread (http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=564482#post564482)

That way you can introduce yourselves to them. Also, if they know two more guys are coming, then they will certainly hold a class, as it only takes 3 guys to form a class. If they don't know you're out there, then a class is less likely to form for the day.
Besides, the 15th is a long ways away. If you get your questions answered before then, you'll be ready to go on the 15th if you want. Of the guys on the board, I think the following guys race 12th scale: mattd, Nanook, trueracefan, Justin Zorc. There are a few more racers, but they aren't on the board.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Euge
wow, I've never seen a TC3 look that small! heheheheh

Speaking of AJ's, I will probably be going there this sunday to race. I'll let you know what the turnout for 12th scale is like. I hope that there's a good turnout for stock rubber.

If you could Euge, please also note what rules the 1/12th guys are following (# of cells, type of cells, type of motor, length of races). I want to show up there to race in the coming weeks, and I want to show up with the 'right stuff'.

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
If you could Euge, please also note what rules the 1/12th guys are following (# of cells, type of cells, type of motor, length of races). I want to show up there to race in the coming weeks, and I want to show up with the 'right stuff'.

sure, no problem. there's a messageboard for AJ's as well, but I don't think anyone really posts on it. I'll have to see for myself.

[mab_man20]

Thanks walt (stupid l's). I would really appreciate it if you would come down and help set things up. Obviously we'd let you race for free. My intention was to download the software tonight and mess around with it a little tomorrow evening. The lite software seems perfect to run 2 or 3 race days and then pending we like it more than the current software (man i just realized how stupid that sounds, of course we will like it more) we will approach Fred about purchasing it.


Brian: Im busy, but ill get that info to you asap.

[Walt]

Originally posted by mab_man20
Thanks walt (stupid l's). I would really appreciate it if you would come down and help set things up. Obviously we'd let you race for free. My intention was to download the software tonight and mess around with it a little tomorrow evening. The lite software seems perfect to run 2 or 3 race days and then pending we like it more than the current software (man i just realized how stupid that sounds, of course we will like it more) we will approach Fred about purchasing it.

Let me know when you'd like me to come to help out and I'll see if I can make it.

If you download the software, I suggest you set up your directory structure like this:

Put all the Alycat files you download into a directory you make.. I recommend that you call it: C:\program files\Alycat\Alycat8.3

That way, when never versions of Alycat come out you can also have an Alycat\8.3beta directory, and an Alycat\8.4beta directory, etc.

A lot of the Alycat 'user' files (like your data base, race results, options files, etc.) will go under 'documents and settings'. It's going to want to put these under 'C:\documents and setting\'user name'\Alycat. I recommend that you change this to C:\documents and settings\Alycat\Alycat8.3, again, so you can have different directories for future releases of the software. To make this change might require changing a couple of lines in the Alycat.ini file that is generated when you install the software.. I can show you that when I see you. If you're like me, you're also going to want to go into that .ini file to turn off some stuff like loud warning sounds and the automatic joke that comes up every time you exit the software... I don't have time for that.

Play around a little bit with it. First go into 'preferences' and select 'Access' and select 'expert'... this will turn everything on so you can see what's there. Then just start running through the rest of the preferences so you can get an idea of what's adjustable.

To set up a race, hit the 'race' button and put in the relavant info, then click on the 'driver' button and put a few drivers in, and then hit 'start'... teaching by example will be much easier, but this will be enough to get you going.

[wrxdan]

***Not RC related***

Man am I disappointed in the performance of my wireless LAN!! I have a G standard router, and one big mother of a fireplace. The 2 don't mix. I was getting signal through out the house but I never realized how slow I was communicating until I ran some CAT 5. I know G is slower then CAT 5 but still, I was moving really slow. I don't see how wireless is better now, houses have too many obstructions. Running CAT 5 is not that bad to do.

Okay done ranting.

Anyone else running a wireless LAN?

[Walt]

Originally posted by wrxdan
***Not RC related***

Man am I disappointed in the performance of my wireless LAN!! I have a G standard router, and one big mother of a fireplace. The 2 don't mix. I was getting signal through out the house but I never realized how slow I was communicating until I ran some CAT 5. I know G is slower then CAT 5 but still, I was moving really slow. I don't see how wireless is better now, houses have too many obstructions. Running CAT 5 is not that bad to do.

Okay done ranting.

Anyone else running a wireless LAN?

I ran CAT 5 throughout my house while we were building (talk about an inexpensive thing to do... I don't think it cost me more than $30 plus a couple hours of my time). My router is a wired/wireless model by D-Link. I mostly use my router for connecting from one computer to the internet, and rarely between computers, which would be the real test of speed, however, I can often hit the maximum speed allowed by my internet provider via both wired and wireless connections (1.5Mbps). The only annoying 'feature' of the D-Link router is that it stops transmitting (and receiving???) wireless signals if it has not seen any for some unknown amount of time. So if I just fire up the laptop without any desktop going, I sometimes have to turn off and back on the router to get it going again, and that requires a walk down into the basement.

BTW, I am no 'computer guy', so I probably should have just left this post alone and stick to RC questions...

[Walt]

Back to R/C stuff for me.

It has been a long while since I've raced electrics (about 16 years now). Sure, I've messed around with my Micro a little last winter and plan to do it some more this winter, but I really want to spend a few Sundays this winter with my first R/C love: 1/12th electric.

I am in the market for a battery charger, and I am seeking the advice of the electric guys on this forum. I currently own an MRC Super Brain 959 charger (Howard calls it my 'Toys R Us charger') which has worked fine for Micro, but I think I might need something a little better if I'm going to be at all serious about electric, plus, I think I'll need more than one charger come race day.

So, do you guys have any advice for me? I'm not going to put a maximum dollar amount on this purchase, but anyone that knows me knows that I like a good value (which is why I bought that 959 in the first place... not a bad AC/DC peak charger for about $45).

I'm not even sure what features I need. For instance, is it important that I be able to charge 3300 mAh batteries at 6 amp or higher (which my 959 can't do), or is 4.5 amp enough? Should I have a charger that can also discharge and cycle my batteries?

I do have a good, although heavy, DC power supply, so the charger does not NEED to be AC/DC, but I think that's a nice feature. I also would like to be able to charge 1 or 2 cells at a time for my glow starters or my wife's Walkman batteries, but that's not absolutely necessary either.

Some of the chargers I am considering include: Novak Millenium Pro, MRC 969, Reedy Quasar Pro, LRP Pulsar and the Great Planes Triton, but the best charger for me might not be on that list.

All of those chargers seem to have their strenghts and weaknesses... I'm having trouble assigning a priority to the different features so that I can make a decision and figure out the relative 'values'.

So, what do you guys think?

[Euge]

Hey Walt,

Glad to see you do some electric. Perhaps someday we can convince you to try some 1/10th scale electric. :)

anyway, there are some differences on how you treat Ni-MH batts versus the old Ni-Cd batts. I found this article informative:


http://www.rccaraction.com/rc/articles/NiMHbatcare1.asp

One thing about Ni-MH batts is that they do not like to be trickle charged. I used to have a Duratrax Digital Intellipeak charger, which was a great charger for the money, but you could not turn off the trickle charge feature. I ended up getting a LRP Pulsar, which is supposedly only second to the Turbo35 in terms of features. Here's a review on the Pulsar

http://www.rccaraction.com/rc/articles/lrp_pulsar.asp

However, the Pulsar cannot do single cell charging. I think the only one able to do that is the Turbo35.
Nexus has a Reedy Quasar Pro, which I think he'll say is a good charger as well. The nice thing about the Quasar Pro is that I believe it has an adjustable discharge rate up to 20A. The Pulsar only has a fixed 10A discharge. In electric, they say that ideallly you should discharge batteries at roughly the same rate that they see while in use, which is about 20-30A in a touring car (not sure if it's that high for 12th scale). I have been fine with the Pulsar's 10A discharge though. Basically, the more you run the batteries in the car, the more cycles they will see at the higher current draw. You'll see the batteries will see an improvement in voltage, but runtime will go down. The ultimate charger in my opinion is the Turbo35, but it's also over $400. I will probably get one someday and my Pulsar will be my second charger.

Oh and another nice thing about the Pulsar; there is a motor run-in feature which I use quite often. After you true the comm and install new brushes (or reserrate the old ones), you can break in the motor with the Pulsar. I think 300 seconds at 5V is recommended (the voltage applied is adjustable). It also shows you the current draw. No load current draw is meaningless, but it will definitely show you if something is binding in the motor if it draws huge current and nothing is attached. Oh, and the current is limited to 9A, so the charger won't blow up if you stall the motor. The Reedy Quasar Pro does not have a motor run in feature. Neither does the Novak Millenium.
My vote is for the LRP Pulsar :)
Oh, and there's a cheaper "sport" version of the Pulsar. To be honest, I'm not sure what the differences are. It might be missing the motor run-in feature.....not sure though.

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by wrxdan
***Not RC related***

Man am I disappointed in the performance of my wireless LAN!! I have a G standard router, and one big mother of a fireplace. The 2 don't mix. I was getting signal through out the house but I never realized how slow I was communicating until I ran some CAT 5. I know G is slower then CAT 5 but still, I was moving really slow. I don't see how wireless is better now, houses have too many obstructions. Running CAT 5 is not that bad to do.

Okay done ranting.

Anyone else running a wireless LAN?

If you come to my house...........you will see my entire house is NETWORK and CAT 5 accessible for the entire HOUSE except BATHROOM.....I spend full weeks before I move in to wire the entire house "NET" ready.........it is well worth it.....but believe it or not, I still use 56K dial up now...just refuse to pay $80 for the ComCast Digital cable when I can only pay $26.99 for DSL and 2 times faster then cable....

Just don't ask me how much I spend on the bridges, swtich boards and all those plugs....to have all 20 zones wired...you need to spend some money, and one thing that is a plus....INCREASE house value, when my neighbour saw my setup, he too hired someone to wire the whole house with CAT5.

However, my brother use some wireless network thing on his laptop...and his speed is about 20% slower then the cat5..........I think that is not too bad at all...

[Rookie Solara]

I will second the "Reedy Quasar Pro" by AE.............about $170 (from Albert) and does way more then enough for my battery.....again, just looking at the batteries we use on micro and 1/12th pan car (or never know...may be TC too...?) I think spending $170 for a TOP of the line charger is well worth it.

But I am limited myself to this charger over the PULSE is......I don't like to buy charger that does DC only.....almost all the GOOD and high end charger (like Novak Millanium or Pulse) are DC only...you need power supply to make it work, even at home.

Reedy one is AC/DC use both..............that is the MAIN reason I get that charger.

Beside...there are 2 computer used exhaust fans on top of the charger to vent all the heat away from the charger........and sometimes, they sounds like my small block 12 engine, I love it....

http://www.teamassociated.com/shusting/CatalogHub/reedy/611_quasar_pro-sm.jpg

[HauntedMyst]

I would recommend the Integy 16x7 over the Reedy Charger, simply because of the warranty. They are the exact same charge, made by the same people, except the Integy can discharge to 30amps and the fan is on the side. You can get them for $150 to $175 on ebay. I've been using it for a year without a false peak or a failure of any kind.

http://integy.automated-shops.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=2045&p_catid=23&sid=4wSJJh0mUMCd2R5-09103206722.c0

[Euge]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
I will second the "Reedy Quasar Pro" by AE.............

wait.....my vote was for the Pulsar :P

I think if you need AC/DC, Quasar is the way to go. Walt said he didn't need the AC, so my vote is for the Pulsar. It's got the motor-run in feature and generally gets better reviews than the Quasar Pro.

The Pulsar is about the same price as the Quasar. You get more features with the Pulsar, but at the sacrifice of no AC.

so if you're okay with DC only, I vote Pulsar.
However, you can't go wrong with either. At the track, I generally only see Turbo35's, Pulsars and Quasars (and a few Milleniums).

[Euge]

Originally posted by HauntedMyst
I would recommend the Integy 16x7 over the Reedy Charger, simply because of the warranty. They are the exact same charge, made by the same people, except the Integy can discharge to 30amps and the fan is on the side.

That's a nice charger too. I see a few of those at the track as well.

[Walt]

OK... this is good... getting some thoughts here on chargers... I knew you guys wouldn't let me down.

Ability to turn off the trickle charge... hadn't thought of that feature. I'll have to go back through my comparison chart I'm making and add that line.

The Pulsar: Euge said it can't do a single cell. Well, my 'comparison chart' has it down as being able to do 1-8 cells... I looked around to see where I got that, and it's the 'Specs' part of the Tower Hobbies listing for the charger. I can't find that info anywhere else, so it's suspect. Are you sure it can not do 1-8 cells as claimed by Tower (I'm guessing you're sure, since you own one)? I also have the MRC969 and the Great Planes Triton down as being single cell compatible, by the way.

The 'motor run in' feature seemed a little silly to me at first. Since this charger is DC only, I'm going to have to lug around my power supply anyways, so what's the difference if I leave the power supply set to 12 volts and use the charger to kick it down to 5 volts verses just setting my power supply to 5 volts? Maybe so I can continue to use the power supply to power a different, 12 volt charger? Maybe it's more for people with a 'fixed' 12 volt power supply or only a 12 volt battery, or maybe I'm missing something.

The Quasar Pro: about the same price as the LRP. I have it down as suitable for 4-8 cells only, but maybe the LRP is the same, not 1-8 like Tower says. The current can't go as high (only 6.5 amp verses 8 amp), but I don't think that the NiMH's we use now can handle that much current anyways. The discharge rate is higher and adjustable. No motor break in feature, but I've got an adjustable power supply anyways... but then again, if I have the Quasar, I don't need to bring along my power supply because this charger is AC/DC.

I'm going to take a closer look at the Quasar and Pulsar, based on your recommendations...

[Walt]

Can the LRP Pulsar be set to automatically cycle a battery pack (charge then discharge then repeat a number of times?) I'm thinking this might be a nice selling feature for me since my packs will be sitting unused all summer long (when nitro flows through my veins), so it might be nice to be able to set the charger to cycle my packs every month or so, and not have to do much other than hook them up.

I'm surprised how difficult it is to get good information on-line about these chargers... Maybe I'm not looking in the right spots, but I'd really like to download the manuals.

[wrxdan]

I had a Quasar Pro. It worked perfectly for what I needed it for. The motor run in never really concerned me. You can break in your brushes with a couple old cells. I used 2 1200 SCRs I had from a long time ago.

I know of someone selling a CE Turbo 35 BL for around $250. But that's much more then a reedy runs.

[mab_man20]

Im going to put in another vote for the pulsar. The motor break in is great. Euge let me use it once, and ive been wanting it ever since. The adjustable discharge is also really handy. Micro cells should be discharged at 5 amps, while TC should be discharged at 20. You see the dilema if its fixed at 10, its a compromise and thats never good for your cells which you spent top dollor for.
Yes you need to lug around the power supply, but I think its well worth it.

[Walt]

Originally posted by mab_man20
Im going to put in another vote for the pulsar. The motor break in is great. Euge let me use it once, and ive been wanting it ever since. The adjustable discharge is also really handy. Micro cells should be discharged at 5 amps, while TC should be discharged at 20. You see the dilema if its fixed at 10, its a compromise and thats never good for your cells which you spent top dollor for.
Yes you need to lug around the power supply, but I think its well worth it.

OK... is there a conspiracy to confuse me here... I thought that the Quasar was the one with adjustable discharge rates, not the Pulsar???

If so, then you say you like the motor break in feature and the variable discharge rate, but those features are on different chargers. Quasar=variable discharge (.1-20 amp), Pulsar=fixed at 10 amp, but the Pulsar has the variable voltage output for breaking in a motor, which I can do with an old cell or my adjustable power supply.

[Euge]

I didn't think the Pulsar could charge single cells, but I may stand corrected. I found on this link that it can do 1-8 cells.

http://www.teamassociated.com/shusting/CatalogHub/lrp/charger_lrp.htm

Team Associated is the US distributer for LRP products.
I guess I overlooked that it could do it cause it was something I didn't really do.

And I assumed you had a fixed power supply. Yeah, you could do the same thing with your power supply. However, the Pulsar does show you what the current draw is (which you couldn't do with just a battery pack), and there's a timer that counts up from when you started the motor run in. Knowing the current draw when you run in a motor will basically tell you if the motor is binding up for some reason. You can't use it to get any useful performance data, but a freer motor will have a lower no load amp draw

and yes, the pulsar is a 10A fixed discharge

[Euge]

oh yeah, and yes, the pulsar has a cycling feature, but it only executes it once; you can't tell it to run indefinitely or X amount of times. That's fine cause once you charge and discharge, you should let the packs cool down before you charge it again. NiMH batts don't like to be super super hot. LRP calls their cycling mode their "Matching" mode, but it's not matching in the traditional sense. Basically, it'll discharge the pack (so you're doing a full charge), then charge it, then discharge it. When it's done cycling, it'll give you Average Voltage (over the discharge time), the time it took to discharge it, and the capacity (in mAh) that it discharged.

I don't know if the Reedy charger has that feature, but it's nice to track the performance of a pack over time. That's how I know my 1 yr old cells have lost capacity but have gained voltage.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Euge
And I assumed you had a fixed power supply. Yeah, you could do the same thing with your power supply. However, the Pulsar does show you what the current draw is (which you couldn't do with just a battery pack), and there's a timer that counts up from when you started the motor run in.

But I can tell the current draw with my DMM (sunk cost since I already own one), and I also own a stopwatch (and a regular watch, which is probably good enough for timing motor break in).

So, I'm still stuck on the Quasar, the Pulsar and now the Integy 16x7. Anyone know where I can find pricing for the Integy besides E-bay? I don't like purchasing through E-bay if I can avoid it.

The best prices I've seen so far for the three:

Quasar: $175, Pulsar: $180, Integy: $176

[Rookie Solara]

I don't have the Millenium or LRP, only the Reedy, so I can tell you what is in the Reedy..........

Charge rate......from 0.1 amps to 6 amps.........

Discharge rate.....from 0.1amps to 20 amps........

Cycle (walt)..........from 1 to 3 times.....(I am sure LRP has that too)

Adjustable cycle period in between.....from 1 minutes to 30 minutes (you can adjust the waiting period between charge and discharge...)

Delta peak adjustment..........yes, you can, but I have no idea what is the best number, I used the default.

Trickle charged........0.01 amps to 0.15 amps.

Reedy Charger came with a small manual and tell you what AMPS to charge/discharge with what type of batteries.........

I think there is ONE thing I don't like the Reedy......for example, if you buy those GREEN colored made in China no name no band no mah listed batteries.......how can you input the XXXX mah before you charge the battery? On Reedy, you have to input 1100 mah so you can have the correct charging process...........and one of the radio pack that was covered with those green tube didn't list what is the mah number on my pack, so I has to guess it is 1100mah.......

The Tower brand Triton charger, you don't have to input anything...plug and charge, the charge will figure out how many mah to fully charge the pack........and if you drain the pack nicely, after fully charged, you can tell the MAH reading on the charger and figure out the MAH of the pack............

That is the only thing I don't like the Reedy one.........

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
But I can tell the current draw with my DMM (sunk cost since I already own one), and I also own a stopwatch (and a regular watch, which is probably good enough for timing motor break in).


Okay, you're going to have to stop pulling gadgets out of the closet that do everything a Pulsar does. :)

You really can't go wrong with any of those chargers. Just make sure the charger you pick has a Linear Charge mode. The Duratrax Intellipeak does a Pulse Charge mode. NiMH batts should be linearly charged.

The reedy/integy might be cool because you don't need your power supply, but I use my power supply for a lot of things: 2 DC fans, lathe, I just bought a dyno.......

Oh, speaking of charging modes, the Pulsar does have a charging mode called "Flex Charge" where it claims it can revitalize old cells. I am not sure if it works or not, but that's their claim. Basically what it does is charge for a bit, then discharge for a small while, then charge, then discharge, then charge and it'll repeat this until it's fully charged (and leave it there). They claim this method revitalizes batteries. I've used it and have seen just a tiny tiny small increase in voltage and runtime and I can't attribute it solely to this mode; packs will vary a tiny bit from charge to charge.

[Nexus]

euge is correct...

i run the Reedy Quasar Pro. for me it's an excellent charger because

- i don't have a power supply but it's still AC/DC if i ever do get one.

- discharging at 20amps is great

- adjustable charge rates....for stock you want to charge at 6amps max and mod at 5amps.

other then that i don't get to technical...charge then race! :D

I agree with euge in that the main chargers around this area I see are Reedy Quasar Pro's, LRP Pulsars, Turbo's, and some Novak Milleniums here and there.

If value is what your looking for the Quasar Pro and Pulsar and excellent choices. I think the Pulsar was charger of the year or something in one of the mags.


Now what motors to run....that's a whole other can of worms heleol

[Walt]

Originally posted by Euge
Okay, you're going to have to stop pulling gadgets out of the closet that do everything a Pulsar does. :)


Sorry... but my R/C workshop is pretty well equipped.. I just need a decent charger...

And regarding my power supply, it is a 'lab' style power supply, 0-24 volt adjustable voltage, with a 0-20 amp adjustable current limit, so it can do a lot, BUT, it weighs in at about 40 lbs, so it's a pain to lug around, and the cooling fan in it is not the quietest either. So an AC/DC charger would be nice, but not necessary.

Bottom line: I've got a lot more information now then I had this morning, but I still have not made a decision.

[Rookie Solara]

I still think the "Toy R Us" Purple thingy charger should be the one that you should keep...........since you are better driver then all of us, you should use some low-end charger as "Handicape".....

Consider that............you don't need no top of the line thing...SKILL is what it counts.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
I still think the "Toy R Us" Purple thingy charger should be the one that you should keep...........since you are better driver then all of us, you should use some low-end charger as "Handicape".....

Consider that............you don't need no top of the line thing...SKILL is what it counts.

Maybe that would be fine, except, one of my purple chargers never worked right out of the box (current is much higher than the setting after a few minutes of charging), and it's not back from MRC yet (several weeks now). My other purple charger I loaned to someone at the HPI Worlds event, forgot to get it back before I left, and he has not mailed it back to me yet.

So, I have NO charger (other than my adjustable power supply and my voltmeter to manually detect peak... that's a pain), and if I'm going to buy another one, I might as well get a nicer one. Eventually (I hope) I'll have my two purple chargers back that can also be used to do basic charging at the track.

[Rookie Solara]

What is the chance I can race my 12 years old 1700 SCR batteries on my SB12...? I solder 4 sets last night (from my old Tamiya TC) and try to cycle it 10-20 times and see there are any juice left....

Any chance...?

[Euge]

wow, those 'lab' style power supplies are expensive! I was thinking about stealing one from work, but tough to do. :confused:

And having gone over all this charger talk, one of the fastest guys at Venture still uses one of those cheap duratrax chargers! And he carries all his stuff in a bucket! :confused: :confused:

[Euge]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
What is the chance I can race my 12 years old 1700 SCR batteries on my SB12...? I solder 4 sets last night (from my old Tamiya TC) and try to cycle it 10-20 times and see there are any juice left....

Any chance...?

I don't know anything about those batteries, but I wanna say............time for new batts?:confused:

[Rookie Solara]

I will ran my SB in my basement tonight with all those pack....hopefully I can get around 8 minutes overall..............(I mean all 4 packs combine = 8 minutes...)

Any pit stop for battery change in 8 minutes main?

[Nexus]

yea...

i forgot his name but this guy comes with the bare essentials....he's always one of the fastest superstock guys and he uses the Duratraxx Digital Intellipeak charger!

it's to funny to see him show up with this 'bucket' of tools and rc parts....then he blows everyone away.


or you could go the other extreme and there are guys who almost have permanant pit areas at venture with their own special chairs :P

[mab_man20]

Sorry walt i got confused between the two....to many windows open at work. (email, RCzone, Ideas, Ideas tutorial, Ideas base menu, Reedy website, novak website, Agile).

Time to go home, get alycat and see if i can get it working on the new HTOP computer.
wish me luck...Im gonna need it.

[wrxdan]

Is there a guy names Chet still racing at Venture? We ran super stock together last year. He was running an x-ray.

Dan

[Euge]

chet? not that I can recall. but then again, I haven't met everyone there. Did he race on saturdays or sundays last year? I raced sundays last year and so far only saturdays this year.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Euge
wow, those 'lab' style power supplies are expensive! I was thinking about stealing one from work, but tough to do. :confused:


A company I used to work for had a ton of those power supplies, and they were always breaking. They never bothered to even try to fix the broken ones (not worth their time), so I made an offer for several of their broken ones and managed to get one working (with some spare parts left over). I bought some that were broken via dropped off a bench instead of broken via caught on fire, figuring they might be still electrically good and just mechanically busted, and I was basically right.

Anyways, I looked some more last night at these chargers... I think I really like the Pulsar and the Integy16x7v6 (the Reedy is much like the Integy, except the Integy can now discharge up to 30 amps (as Myst mentioned, I think) and it can go down to 1 cell verses the 4 cell minimum of the Reedy Quasar).

As far as I can tell, the only feature the Pulsar has that the Integy doesn't have is the motor break in (DC/DC converter) feature, and I can live without that.

Here's where I need a little help. The Pulsar has that 'battery matching' feature, which is more like a battery performance test, that seems really easy to use. Seems like the Integy would do that to, but I'm not sure. Anyone know for sure?

Oh, also, the Integy has a maximum charge rate of 6.5 amp to the Pulsar's 8.0 amp, but I don't see the need to go that high with NiMH's anyways.

And then the Integy is AC/DC, which is a nice bonus.

So, unless someone can think of something in this comparison that I'm neglecting, I think I'll just start shopping around for that Integy model.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Euge]

Walt,
I don't think you could go wrong with either charger. I would love to have a 30A discharge and might look into getting the integy as a second charger for myself. This whole discussion has been helpful to me as well as I need a second charger and am looking for the 30A discharge.

The "Matching" mode of the Pulsar is pretty nice, and I've never used the integy, but I'd imagine they have something similar.
All it is is a discharge-charge-discharge cycle where it tells you what the avg voltage, etc is.
My old Duratrax had a cycling mode, but it wouldn't tell you all the stats. Perhaps someone with a Quasar (Nexus) or Integy could tell us what their charger tells you after it's done cycling.

[Rookie Solara]

The Reedy one....after charging, or discharging, or cycling, would tell you the final batteries status....volt, peak, amps, thsi and that...

Nice feature for others, for me, just another set of numbers that I don't know what they meant......

[Walt]

I think I've decided to go with the Integy... now, where to buy.

I don't like buying through E-bay if I can avoid it, but it's there for $170 + 14 S/H = $184.

Horrizon has it for $180 + $6.95 shipping = $186.95, and for the 3 extra dollars I can avoid buying from a guy that requires a Cashier's check and says he's not responsible if you never get the item.

Has anyone heard from Albert lately? I wonder if he can get it?

I also sent an e-mail to Tom... I think he carries Integy stuff... I can't remember his web address though.

I'll check Al's today during lunch.

Any other thoughts?

[mab_man20]

The characters:
Computer A
Computer B
Monitor
Printer A
Printer B
Loop
MicroScore
Alycat
Mike
Chris

The plot:
Life was great. Computer A had all the connections and worked loving along side Microscore. Printer A worked when it felt like it, but always managed just enough to keep Mike and Chris from destroying him. One day Microscore caught a virus and stopped reading the loop correctly. This made Computer A so sad that he started crashing everytime he saw Microscore.

Mike and Chris became fed up and decided that the relationship between Microscore and computer A had gone long enough. So they brought in Alycat and Computer B to take their place, not wanting to mix up couples. They plugged everything into Computer B and turned him on. To everyones surprise, Monitor did not like Computer A and refused to work with him.
Chris and Mike were still mad at Computer A and Microscore for ruining a good thing so they hooked computer A back up to everything and introduced him to Alycat. Mike and Chris had heard good things about Alycat and hoped Computer A would like her as much as Walt has.
Computer A loved Alycat on site, immediately running the setup program. However, Alycat took one good look at Computer A and said, "Your so old, you dont have enough color, such a small dimension, and so slow! I will not run with you!"

Chris and Mike were mad at this new developement and the conceeded nature of alycat. There was only one option...find another monitor for computer B. Fred had one extra that just may work....

Next weeks episode:
Will Fred's monitor work? Will computer B like Printer B? Will Computer B be what Alycat is looking for???

Tune in next time

[Walt]

I had my own computer drama yesterday, except much less dramatic.

Ever since I started running races, I have used my own personal laptop computer. It's a 400 mHz with 192 meg ram, and it has always worked well. But I really don't like leaving that computer at the bowling alley, and I really don't like using it for this purpose at all, because a laptop is just not rugged enough (especially for the Wednesday night races, where people were getting their food/beer/cigarette ashes into it).

So, last week I finally bought a new computer for racing, a 900mHz HP with 128 meg ram. I installed all the Alycat software onto it (no problem) and brought it to the bowling alley where it will live for ever and ever. Yesteday was the first ever race using it, and Tony reported to me this morning that everything went flawlessly... amazing. Now I can go back to surfing the web in my lazy-boy in front of the TV with my laptop and wireless LAN card, and life is good.

For running Alycat, I recommend a computer of at least 300mHz and 128 meg ram, and I recommend that you put Windows XP on it as the opperating system, only because that's what I've been using and I have had very little trouble.

[chicago rc]

Monitor not working with a PC, sounds like a video card issue? You guys know you can go on eBay and buy a new P3 450 machine for under $100? Either way, I will stay out of this one, sounds like a real headache.

I went up to Venture last night and put about 2 solid hours on the new TC3. It took a while to get used to that track after running in Tinley, that's for sure. But the whole Stock motor thing is great, you never have to feel like your car's lack of speed is the reason you are slower than someone else. Not new info for you guys but for me a real eye opener!

I also didn't realize that a stock motor would allow to run for so long. I watch the mod guys burn up a pack in 4 minutes so 10+ minutes or longer (so it seemed) was nice.

As for chargers, I have that IntelliPeak charger, why is it so bad for NiMh? I bought it when I got the E-Maxx, dual outputs made sense. Auto-trickle is no good???


- Brian

[Walt]

Originally posted by chicago rc
As for chargers, I have that IntelliPeak charger, why is it so bad for NiMh? I bought it when I got the E-Maxx, dual outputs made sense. Auto-trickle is no good???


- Brian

NiMH's don't like to be trickled after they're full... just heats them up. All you have to do to avoid that problem is disconnect the battery from the charger once they are peaked.

The trickle charge default is based on what NiCd's like.

[wrxdan]

Isn't Wednesday night a race night at Venture? How was the turnout?

Dan

[chicago rc]

Wed. night is supposed to be a race night but they are not racing until the turnout gets better. I was there with 2 people and besides us there were maybe 4 others. It was sweet for practicing and having some short 5 lappers for fun with the other people there. Saturday night is supposed to be really packed with racers though. I guess they run:

Foam Stock, Rubber Stock, Mod, Brushless, Novice Run Anything

And then they have a special race for Howard called the 10 year old battery pack challenge - 1 lap, whoever makes it wins :-)


- Brian

[Rookie Solara]

For real.....when you go next time....find out any 12th scale racing and their spec..........
I really really really don't want to get to TC on elect.....but if the 12 scale doesn't have the turn out, I have no choice to get myself a TC3 or Tamiya...................

But I think I will put my old GRASSHOPPER back and see I can be in stock class.........just a little hard to find FOAMS for that chassis.

Beside.....what is a good SHAFT drive elect TC now...? TC3? Tamiya. Yok or the new HPI Pro4........?

I think I will stick with shaft cause the NTC3 effect.

[chicago rc]

When I was deciding what to buy it was the Losi XXX-S Graphite Plus or the TC3 Factory Team Edition. I got the TC3. Mainly those 2 choices due to parts availability at Venture. Cory K offered me some great input. I included some of that here:

The Losi doesn't have the punch out of the corners like the TC3 due to it's larger pulleys. This is great at Venture or any tight tracks. The Losi will do better when it is able to carry speed out of the corners. This was clear last night as I raced around with 2 Losi's all night.

The TC3 snaps arms like pretzels but I banged mine up pretty hard last night at Venture and broke nothing. Either car will be great. Both have their +'s and -'s. Since I have the TC3 now you will be cool if you get the same car as me.

- Brian:D

[Nexus]

walt/howard and anyone else looking at 1/12th scale at venture....

i just talk to one of the racers at venture....for 1/12th scale they run stock motor, 4 cells, 8 min heats and main.

just take the plunge and run TC. there's 2 to 3 times the amount of competition in that class. plus you can run them outdoors at tinley still :)

shaft drive:

FT TC3
Tamiya Evo 3
Yokomo MR-4TC SD
Pro4 - when it comes out.

- excellent car and the tuning is very simaliar to the NTC3

- Tamiya Evo 3 is an excellent car but the kit and spares can be pricey

- Pro4 looks like a great car so far....we'll see when it officially released if there are any problems with it.

- The 2 guys running Yokomo's sold them because it was hard to get parts...plus they have a reputation as being "BROKOMO's"

That being said a ton of fast guys run the Losi XXXS-G and a few Xray's are roaming about.

But the whole Stock motor thing is great, you never have to feel like your car's lack of speed is the reason you are slower than someone else

better driving and corner speed are key...but i think euge would agree...some guys are excellent motor tuners and turn out some fast stockers....on a good race day you hear all these crazy sounds of lathes cutting, brush cutters, dyno's, and other crazy gadgets to get your motor to run fast.


The best bet is to get a couple of Trinity Monster Stock motors. Hands down it is the best stock motor out there for onroad racing. You'll notice just about everyone runs them at Venture. The only motor that I feel can compete with it is a Reedy MVP with the right brushes and springs

[wrxdan]

Originally posted by chicago rc
The TC3 snaps arms like pretzels but I banged mine up pretty hard last night at Venture and broke nothing. Either car will be great. Both have their +'s and -'s. Since I have the TC3 now you will be cool if you get the same car as me.

- Brian:D

Are you running the FT TC3? I had the same problem. It was weird, hard hits did nothing but light wall taps would crack the end of the arm off. I got rid of the graphite arms and used the standard plastic. The added flex help breakage.

[chicago rc]

Yeah, FT TC3. I heard that as well, hard hits - no damage, brush the wall and snap!

- Brian

[Euge]

now I wish I had gone wednesday. I'm usually a saturday guy, but may go on wednesdays once in a while to venture.

I knew it was going to be closed until the 15th, but I forgot that it doesn't close until Oct 30th or 31st....

I might be going to trackside this sunday if anyone's interested in meeting up there. (actually haven't made up my mind between AJ's and Trackside. need to race somewhere)

Rookie, I don't think you could go wrong with either the TC3, XXX-s, Tamiya Evo. We'll see about the Pro4 when it comes out. I'd choose between the TC3 and the XXX-S for just availability of parts. But I guess if you stock up on your own parts, it doens't matter which car you run. I personally think all the cars are pretty good, that it just comes down to being able to setup the car properly and driving.

[Euge]

Originally posted by chicago rc
Yeah, FT TC3. I heard that as well, hard hits - no damage, brush the wall and snap!

I've experienced the same thing, but I've heard XXX-S G+ guys saying the same thing.

Honestly, what might be happening is that a crack in the graphite was probably already there and a light tap is all that is needed to finish off the part. Like when you hit a wall pretty hard, that may have started the crack, and all it needs is another little tap.
it's harder to start a crack than it is to propogate it (finish it off).

but that's just my opinion.

I do agree that the standard plastic parts are better in a crash and I have no qualms(sp?) about using them. However, you do want your suspension arms to be very stiff. You want your suspension to do all the work. Imagine a car with a very rubbery chassis and suspension arms. The actual shocks don't do all the work, and messing with shock settings will not translate well to the performance of the car.

[Nexus]

euge...correcto :P

the plastic arms are cheaper and do offer a little more flex...but on a high traction surface like carpet a stiffer overall car is better.

[Euge]

Originally posted by Nexus
euge...correcto :P

.....mundo

[Euge]

Originally posted by Nexus
euge...correcto :P

the plastic arms are cheaper and do offer a little more flex...but on a high traction surface like carpet a stiffer overall car is better.

actually, even outdoors, where the suspension has to work hard on a bumpy surface, you want the shocks to absorb all the bumps, not your chassis/arms

[mab_man20]

Problem solved...go with graphite arms and the BRP or RPM front bumper. Either will completely halt your front arm breaking problem. If your hitting the wall and worrying about breaking arms then you shouldnt be concerned with the extra weight.

Im off work in a few and am heading over to HTOP to figure out the whole computer "issue."

I was looking on ebay and for $58.01 ($58 for shipping, $0.01 for the computer) you can get some decent machines. Maybe Ill get one and donate it to HT.

Hope to see most of you tonight.

(the track is a little more open rookie)

[Rookie Solara]

Like I told you last time, I cannot make it tonight....I have bigger problem (need to fix the radio problem)....

Well, thanks for all the elect TC input.....again, I can see all the "DEVIL" are more then welcome to offer their help to "SPEND" my money wisly.....now, I want to see a dirt cheap used TC3.

[wrxdan]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Like I told you last time, I cannot make it tonight....I have bigger problem (need to fix the radio problem)....

Well, thanks for all the elect TC input.....again, I can see all the "DEVIL" are more then welcome to offer their help to "SPEND" my money wisly.....now, I want to see a dirt cheap used TC3.

Rookie....it's calling your name.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3152205462&category=44019

This is fun being the devil!

[Rookie Solara]

Dan....thanks, you are not helping.....remember, BABY coming...? Any idea...?

Well, thanks but no thanks....$200 I would rather buy a new one and start over, I am talking about used $100 the most TC3.....how about you...? Forget about the buggy....buggy is for ROOKIE only....

Walt..........I stop by Al's after work today and met a nice guy that race 12th and 10th TC at AJ every week, he too ran SW12 and he knew a lot about the spec of 12th scale at AJ....

(1) AJ is perfect for 12th scale.....like National track for 12th scale...Venture is too small but still acceptable for 12th, but definitely too small for 10th or 10th TC.

(2) AJ run 5 minutes main and quailfier, last week there are 2 classes for 12th scale, so we don't have to worry about no 12th scale ppl there...

(3) 3300 or 3000 mah Ni-Mh battery....Motor is 19T spec class and the pinion spur are 28,29,30 and 31 with 100 tooth....

(4) Body, no limit, so does ESC or servo or receiver....

(5) I forgot to ask their transponder system, but I heard they are using the same one we use at TINELY...Digital AMB, so ours will work there...

(6) Foam......front GREY and rear PURPLE.

His name is Steve, and Mike/Guy from Al's said he is one of the fastest guy that race there with both 10th TC and 12th.....beside, he raced National frequently.

[wrxdan]

I'm just messin with ya howard. At least you are trying to race. I haven't touch my ntc3 since I oiled the mt12 after HTOP race.

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by wrxdan
I'm just messin with ya howard. At least you are trying to race. I haven't touch my ntc3 since I oiled the mt12 after HTOP race.

Yeah I know.....most of my friend do that to me amuway.

So what is for your winter...? Full time buggy at Leisure Hour..? Any chance of you doing micro or TC3 (you sold yours already? or I got confused with someone else...)..?

[Sundog1]

I might be going to trackside this sunday if anyone's interested in meeting up there. (actually haven't made up my mind between AJ's and Trackside. need to race somewhere)

Euge,

I am pretty sure AJ has an Oval event this weekend, and there is no regular practice or racing. They are there on Friday so you can call and check.

[chicago rc]

I ran a 23 pinion / 100 spur at Venture and was able to go full throttle all the way down the back straight and stay on it around the turn at the end of the straight and back to the turn near the drivers stand. That track is tight but plenty of places to pass and do some good racing even with 1/10th TC. I enjoy a larger track where I can go faster in more places but I did enjoy the tight track as long as my car hooked up which it did.

Question on foams, mine are worn down to almost nothing but still hook up great. At what point do you toss the foams in the trash assuming they haven't chunked at all? I got these used so I don't know if new foams on carpet are much different that these worn down ones.

- Brian

[Walt]

I'm going through terrible R/C car withdrawl here... I need to get out and race soon.

My 1/12th car is just about ready.. just need to paint the body now (and, of course, get a battery charger).

I think I'm going to plan on racing at AJ's on Nov. 9th and 23rd for sure (wife has plans for those days, so I'm free so long as I can find a baby sitter and get a battery charger by then).

And I really hope I can find a good group of guys to race 1/12th with. Indoor carpet electric touring cars just don't make much sense to me. There is SO much traction, you don't need 4wd, and the track is so smooth that you don't really need the complex touring car suspension. I'd bet anything that the 1/12th cars are faster than the TC's, so why not just run them? On top of faster, they are less expensive, more durable, much less rough on motors and batteries, and have really cool looking sleek racing bodies.

I don't mean to offend anyone here... racing is racing, and it's all fun, and TC is probably more fun around here right now simply because that's where the bigger crowd is. I just wish that the bigger crowd were doing 1/12th, which fundamentally, makes more sense to me for indoor carpet racing.

Back when I started racing, 1/12th was the thing (this was the early 80's, by the way). We ran 8 minute races, 4 cell, with the old 1200 mAh Sanyo Cadnica's. I remember typical racer turnouts being in the 50 - 75 racer range, and man was that fun... then came Nintendo.

Again, not intented to insult the electric TC... I'll probably end up with one soon if I don't like the 1/12th racing at AJ's.

[Walt]

And one comment about choosing an electric TC (even though I just 'bad mouthed' them)... One very real benifit to getting the HPI Pro 4 is that you can come with me and Howard to the HPI Challenge next summer. It's a really fun race, with nice prizes for the winners. Something to keep in mind if all else is equal betwen the different cars.

[wrxdan]

Howard: yes is sold my TC3, and also sold my T4. I think I'm going to take a true off season. Save some money to try to make an extra house payment.

What days to AJ's run? I thought it was Sunday only?

[Euge]

Originally posted by Sundog1
Euge,

I am pretty sure AJ has an Oval event this weekend, and there is no regular practice or racing. They are there on Friday so you can call and check.

Thanks Sundog. I was wondering if they were going to race a road course on sunday. AJ's website says that there's an oval race on saturday, but I didn't know if that applied to sunday as well. I think I'm going to go to Trackside anyway. Thanks though.

[Euge]

Yeah, Venture is a little small, but I've always had a blast anyway. I always felt that the tight lanes made for a more technical track which helps one learn throttle control.
Having said that, I'm really excited that venture is expanding and going to be a bigger, better place.

By the way, this was posted on rctech:

"This just in... Rick Sherman has just Bought Venture Raceways
Congratulations to Rick!!! He will be closed from Oct.31-Nov.14. So he can remodel the the track. He has lots of plans to make it the best track in the area. So plan to be at the new RSJ Raceways for the first race day on Nov. 14 to so you can be one of the first to see what how cool it is. Ive heard some of his plans and they sound awsome."

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
Indoor carpet electric touring cars just don't make much sense to me. There is SO much traction, you don't need 4wd, and the track is so smooth that you don't really need the complex touring car suspension. I'd bet anything that the 1/12th cars are faster than the TC's, so why not just run them? On top of faster, they are less expensive, more durable, much less rough on motors and batteries, and have really cool looking sleek racing bodies.


no offense taken, Walt. When you say there's all that traction on indoor carpet, are you talking foam or rubber tires? There's quite a big difference. The foam tires stick like glue, and with rubber tires, if you don't use traction compound, you'll be slip sliding away.

Having said that, yeah, the 1/12th scale cars are faster than TC. TC just has a bigger following. It's probably for the same reason that 1/10th scale Nitro TC is more popular than Super Nitro. I'm guessing cause TC resembles the cars we actually drive. Personally, I like the TC bodies a lot more than the 1/12 scale or Super Nitro bodies (that wedge design).

[Walt]

Originally posted by Euge
no offense taken, Walt. When you say there's all that traction on indoor carpet, are you talking foam or rubber tires? There's quite a big difference. The foam tires stick like glue, and with rubber tires, if you don't use traction compound, you'll be slip sliding away.

Having said that, yeah, the 1/12th scale cars are faster than TC. TC just has a bigger following. It's probably for the same reason that 1/10th scale Nitro TC is more popular than Super Nitro. I'm guessing cause TC resembles the cars we actually drive. Personally, I like the TC bodies a lot more than the 1/12 scale or Super Nitro bodies (that wedge design).

I think you're right... it was the bodies that made TC popular, although I still don't see how people can rather race a Dodge Stratus bodied car than a sleek racing body like the 1/12th cars run... I guess there is no accounting for taste...

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
I think you're right... it was the bodies that made TC popular, although I still don't see how people can rather race a Dodge Stratus bodied car than a sleek racing body like the 1/12th cars run... I guess there is no accounting for taste...

heheheheheh I'm past the Dodge Stratus. The Protoform Alfa Romeo 2.0 is the hot TC body to have now. hehehhe :P

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
One very real benifit to getting the HPI Pro 4 is that you can come with me and Howard to the HPI Challenge next summer. It's a really fun race, with nice prizes for the winners. Something to keep in mind if all else is equal betwen the different cars.

Nexus and I have considered getting the Pro4 as a second car(when it's available). That might be a cool incentive.

[Rookie Solara]

I think I will stick with the 1/12th scale for now.....spending enough money already, really need to stop.

But having a PRO4 does have its advantage........car is the TOP of the line design (compare to yok or TC3...very much the same) but there is always a HPI challenge.........

But here is the key........ELECTRIC or NITRO (PRO4 vs R40.....)

Apparently there is no angel vs devil situation here....both are DEVIL......LOL:mad:

[Rookie Solara]

Walt..........Nov 9 is a good day for me as well, wife has ART INSTITUTE to see "Megnat" the painter or some dead guy's painting...(magnet..? or something like that)....

However, I might go to paintball with Albert and Jim.........so I will have to let you know what I decided...

Beside, after the remodeling of VENTURE, I think there is a very good chance they will have a better track for 12th scale...we should give them a shot.

[Rookie Solara]

Walt: Just ordered 2 pack of 6 cells 3300 1.170 for $98 from the same site that you gave me...........they upgraded me for 1.16 to 1.17 for free and free shipping.....good deal.

Now, I need motor and pinion gears, may be a set of foams and finish the body.

I don't know what 19T you ended up with, but STEVE said this is the one most ppl use for 12th scale...Trinity Arcornite 19 Turn Single (and you can adjust timing on that too)

[Walt]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Walt: Just ordered 2 pack of 6 cells 3300 1.170 for $98 from the same site that you gave me...........they upgraded me for 1.16 to 1.17 for free and free shipping.....good deal.

Now, I need motor and pinion gears, may be a set of foams and finish the body.

I don't know what 19T you ended up with, but STEVE said this is the one most ppl use for 12th scale...Trinity Arcornite 19 Turn Single (and you can adjust timing on that too)

I bought 3 of their 4-cell packs, so same thing as your two 6-cell packs. Except only one of mine is the 1.17+ packs.

That 19T Arcornite motor is the one I bought, but it looks like I screwed up with pinions... I bought 20 - 26 teeth, and you found out that they are running 28 up to 31 or something. So I might have to buy more pinions... oh well. I thought they were running 8 minute races, but at only 5 minutes, it makes sense that they can use such large pinion gears.

Looks like we'll be ready on Nov. 9th for our 1/12th scale debut! Oh, and my wife just called me to say that I got a shipment today.. it's my 'Toys R Us' charger back from MRC, so at least I have something now (still want to buy a better charger though).

[Walt]

sorry... double posted... haven't done that in a while, and it wouldn't let me delete it.

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
I thought they were running 8 minute races, but at only 5 minutes, it makes sense that they can use such large pinion gears.


if you're talking about Venture, every time I've been there, they've run 8 minute heats for 1/12th scale.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Euge
if you're talking about Venture, every time I've been there, they've run 8 minute heats for 1/12th scale.

Talking about AJ's. 5 minute races, 4-cell, 19T Arcornite motor.

[Nexus]

Racing at Venture is tight and technical....if you can drive there you can race anywhere....

that's the one probrem i had with Tinley...it wasn't that technical of a track. with an electric you could almost go full throttle through the whole course.


1/12th scales are always faster then TC....you can't really compare the two...plus you always run foams. running TC with rubber tires won't give you the best traction. but like euge said i think it's about TC being more realistic....full suspension...real car bodies...ect.


HPI owners....do you think that HPI parts/spares are any more expensive then say AE/Losi spares? Just wondering because I'm thinking about that new HPI Pro 4...

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Euge
if you're talking about Venture, every time I've been there, they've run 8 minute heats for 1/12th scale.

Yeah. that guy STEVE is based in AJ.....but he heard the same thing about the renovation of Venture, so he might try out the track later as well

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Nexus
HPI owners....do you think that HPI parts/spares are any more expensive then say AE/Losi spares? Just wondering because I'm thinking about that new HPI Pro 4...

To appreciate the price of HPI AE or LOSI.........you must have something like Serpent or X-ray first, then you will realized that owning a NTC3 or TC3 is a dream cause you can find parts at place like Toy R Us (just kidding...let say Hobby Town) and a full set of suspension arms (front and rear) = 1 left lower arm of Serpent plus 1 left steering knuckles........

HPI is definitely the same price bracket compare to AE and Losi, maybe just a quarter more give or take...but again, I will go for PRO 4.....TC3 is like what...4 plus years old already...? Newer is 99% of time BETTER......

[Rookie Solara]

I forgot to ask.......does AJ use AMB digital (like our personal)...?

What about Venture? I knew they use the old one........but will they have the new digital one like Tinley?

[Euge]

When Nexus and I went to AJ's once during the summer, I don't believe they were using the personal transponder system (AMB).

There are rumors that Venture will use the personal system, but who knows. We'll have to see. If they want to be one of the best tracks in the area, I'd be surprised if they didn't.

Trackside uses the personal transponder system

[Nexus]

Newer is 99% of time BETTER......

i think the NTC3 and TC3 prove that statement is not true....both those cars are still winning a ridiculous amount of national/world championships.


i'm only getting a new car just to have something different to play with :cool:

[chicago rc]

I talked to AJ today. They do not use the newer AMB RC system so no personal transponders. And this weekend is an oval race only, no roadcourse. I know someone mentioned that earlier, it is true.

[Asahi]

hey guys, I'm interested on getting a 1/10 touring car.

which choosing between xray evo, pro 4 and TB III

which one will you recommend? and why is that?

[Nexus]

asahi...

i run a FT TC3 but here's some info...

Xray - excellent craftsmanship and durability....but car and parts are very pricey. guys who have run the car say it's almost bullet proof...but if/when it breaks the parts are expensive.

Evo 3 - i really like this car and have watched kitt and rutt run them successfully. the craftsmanship is supurb and tamiya pays very close attention to details. only major flaw is gears stripping and something with the one way....again parts can be pricey.

Pro 4 - on paper and in testing this car looks great. the layout is a proven shaft drive design (ala TC3). prices shouldn't be bad since HPI has such a big presence in the U.S. true test will be when the car is released to the public and you start to see them at local and big races. right now i am leaning toward purchasing one of these as a next car.


just wondering...why aren't you considering the FT TC3 or XXXS G?

Here's a list of some of the top TC cars:

Associated FT TC3
Losi XXXS G
Xray Evo 2
Tamiya Evo 3
Yokomo MR-4TC SD
HPI Pro 4 (when it's released)

you can also get really nice 'chassis kit' cars like...

BMI TC3
Warpspeed TC3 - Chris Doseck just signed on as their driver


i guess it all depends on your personal preferrences. as you have heard most guys run the TC3 and XXXS here in the states because of price and the fact almost every hobby store/track will have spares on hand....plus they are excellent handling cars.

if you don't mind spending a little more, stocking up a bit more spares, and having like something different i'd run either the Yokomo or Tamiya. i personally like shaft drive TC cars better then belt driven ones.

hopefully the Pro 4 will come out soon and not have any problems with it.

WALT- are the local HPI Challenge races just a one day event? just wondering...i'm pretty sure the Tamiya TCS races are 2 or 3 days.

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Nexus
WALT- are the local HPI Challenge races just a one day event? just wondering...i'm pretty sure the Tamiya TCS races are 2 or 3 days.

I can answer that for Walt....all HPI challenge races are 2 days event and mostly on the weekend, SAT 3 qualfiers and SUN 1 (4th qualifier) and then main............but if SUNDAY is a bad day or short day, they will cancel the last qualfier and run MAIN immediately....but it is a 2 days event

If you are lucky enough....HPI World is a 4 days event.....(or actually 3 days included 2.4 endurance race).....

Now, I have good 6 months to decide I should get the R40 or the PRO 4.....

[Hanibel]

What does everyone look for in an indoor on-road track?

Do you prefer carpet or a prepared concrete?

How big for 10th scale electric? Maximum & minimum

What is minimum size for 12th scale?

I would really like to run this winter, but all on the indoor on-road tracks are at least an hour away. I would love to have a facility in the south suburbs.

If I can find out what everyone would like, I can begin to look for an appropriate location. Probably would not happen this winter but maybe for next.

Any suggestions would be welcome

Thanks

[Rookie Solara]

I don't think anyone of us can actually tell you the size and material to use for the track will be the perfect track for you.....you still, the best shot is go to the track yourself and feel and see it.....

For Indoor, I think the closest is AJ....or later, Venture raceway, after a few visit, you should be able to figure out the size and floor surface for your future track.

I think for WINTER on-road, you must use commercial high travel carpet...and for size...nothing smaller then 100x150 (or at least this size).

Again....Walt, Nexus, Euge and myself are going to places like AJ, venture and even trackside to race indoor touring and 12th scale...

Personally.......I think you should consider the track for indoor TOURING CAR first.....cause that is like on-road Nitro car...most ppl run that class.....12th scale will not have the draw compare to TC, but I am sure there are some (at least Walt and I are planning to run that for this year)

Then of course....you can dedicate a small area for indoor MICRO...that should draw a lot of ppl too.....(but I think having 3 tracks for micro (very nearby) is not healthy....)

[chicago rc]

We tried to run on very clean concrete inside a large warehouse recently and it was terrible, sliding all over (rubber tires). You need carpet! As for the hour drive, that is really not bad at all to go race a few times a month. People drive 45 minutes or more going to work each way and then say an hour to go race is too far!

Walt has proven though that the south burbs needed somewhere to race on-road, so maybe an indoor track would be good too? Don't waste your time unless you are willing to invest in an AMB scoring system ($4000+), a decent PC, the carpet, and a large enough space to make a decent roadcourse. Go visit AJ's, Venture, and Leisure hours (indoor off-road) to get an idea of what is a good size. Talk to the racers at the tracks, talk to the owners too, they can be helpful and always like to see someone willing to try and get more people racing.

Brian
www.chicagorc.com

[Walt]

Originally posted by Hanibel
What does everyone look for in an indoor on-road track?

Do you prefer carpet or a prepared concrete?

How big for 10th scale electric? Maximum & minimum

What is minimum size for 12th scale?

I would really like to run this winter, but all on the indoor on-road tracks are at least an hour away. I would love to have a facility in the south suburbs.

If I can find out what everyone would like, I can begin to look for an appropriate location. Probably would not happen this winter but maybe for next.

Any suggestions would be welcome

Thanks

If you are really serious about doing this, talk to me. I run the Chicagoland R/C Raceway (in Tinley Park). We don't currently do any indoor racing except for Micros on Wednesday nights. We have a pretty large following of summer racers, many of whome I think would race all winter with us if we had an indoor track. I've already got the AMBrc scoring system, as well as boards that could be used indoors, corner dots, and a lot of race running experience.

If you are interested in having a partner in this, talk to me first... good chance I'd be interested if it's near by.

You can contact me via e-mail at: walt@chicagolandrc.com

[Walt]

Originally posted by chicago rc
We tried to run on very clean concrete inside a large warehouse recently and it was terrible, sliding all over (rubber tires). You need carpet! www.chicagorc.com

Sounds like my basement before I painted the surface. If you guys are serious about running in that warehouse and don't want to get Ozite (racing carpet), you might want to take a look at that special basement paint with sand in it intended to be slip resistent. Once I put that down in my basement the traction was great for our Mini-z's and Micro RS4's with rubber tires. I can only assume it would have been fine for larger cars as well.

[Rookie Solara]

http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/manet/images/manetweb_intro2.jpg

After having a wondering time "being KILLED" by Serpent_Impact's and Jim's semi-automatic paintball weapon (got shot 5 times in 1 hit in the chest and legs in 1 second......)yesterday..........I knew there is a price to pay (see above).

Walt..........remember I told you about the "MAGNET" exhbition? Annie got me the ticket for the show on 9th as well..........and I am the only GUY that day, and that is like "NO QUESTION ASKED" situation cause she let me play paintball yesterday, so I have to go to see "Magnet" with her this coming week.......so, my 3300 mah batteries along with new foams, new Trinity Arcornite 19 Turn Single Motor and new ready to paint body is going to wait for another WEEK or WEEKS...........

Sorry, I cannot go with you this week @ AJ, and I think I have to meet with you on the 22nd (that is your next availible SUNDAY, right...?)......or all SAT is OK for me now, I can race SAT at Venture and we should hook up 1 weekend and try out their new track and see it is OK for 1/12th scale.

Please let me know..........

Meanwhile, I am going to study more about this DEAD DUDE MAGNET and see he was a painter or carpenter or scupter or did he used to race RC car back in 19 century....? Beside, what is the connection between WOMEN and DEAD painter...? What is so TURN ON about DEAD painter that she would paid my hard earning $22 per ticket plus $15 parkings and dinner for this DEAD PAINTER................? Not to mention....all the collectable for this DEAD painter and may be some poster or MAGNET painting umbrella...........wow, how excited.

[Walt]

Howard, you crack me up.

Sorry you won't be able to make it to AJ's this Sunday. Looks like I will still go, and my Dad wants to come with to check out the indoor racing (this will bring back memories for both of us of when I was 12 and my Dad would take me 1/12th racing).

I'll let you know what it's like.

I am still planning on going to AJ's again on the 23rd, and if there is a Saturday or something that you'd like to go, just let me know with as much advance notice as possible and I'll try to talk my wife into letting me go too.

[chicago rc]

Howard,

You are on the right track with getting a full day of play time, paintball, R/C, or whatever, in exchange for a day with the wife and a dead painter. But as time goes on you will learn to be a better negotiator - Learn how to get 2 fulls days of play time for 1 day with the wife, it's much better that way.

[Rookie Solara]

No...that is not negoiation in this case, it is totally UNFAIRNESS here.....I am the ONLY guy? At Art Institute...? Why? It is a girl outing function, and I have to go.....good thing I have a job on SUNDAY to take care 5 kids inside the Art Institute while I have to make conversation with wife about his MAGNET dude....she loves to talk INNER stuff like 'Why he draw something like that..? Does he do that because of his background..? Or does he do that because he want to reflect his inner mind feeling at that particular moment...?"

GOD...............KILL ME, KILL ME NOW..........TAKE ME TO HEAVEN....or better yet - HELL.

For sure, she own me big one on this event.......I demand a full month RC racing on both SAT and SUN in November and December....as well as January.........

(no....baby is duel that time, even though I want to go , I have to bring my baby along..........can't he/she stay home alone when he/she is several days old..? Is that legal...? I know it is legal in Mainland China....)

[chicago rc]

I had a class in negotiation skills but they never taught us how to deal with a pregnant wife? Figure that one out and you can negotiate anything :-)

OK, this thread is getting a little weak so let's get back to indoor track design and when to all meet up at AJ's and race...

Brian

[Walt]

Originally posted by chicago rc
OK, this thread is getting a little weak so let's get back to indoor track design and when to all meet up at AJ's and race...

Brian

There is definitely a 'market' for an indoor on road track in the South Suburbs (I'm basing this on the fact that we found a pretty darn good market for outdoor on road in Tinley).

Here's a question though... if you were building an indoor onroad track, would you make it electric only, or put in a couple fans (ala Liesure) and make it nitro capable? Obviously, there is NO indoor, nitro on road track anywhere near Chicago (at least not that I've ever heard of).

As soon as you go nitro though, you can't do carpet, and you basically can't have heat in the winter... maybe some natural gas fueled radiant heat over the driver's stand, and heated pits, but the track is just gonna have to be cold if you want adequate ventilation. You could have 'electric only' days where you turn off the ventilation fans and actually warm the place up, but not on nitro days.

And Brian: can you make it to AJ's this Sunday? I can't remember if you said you could or not (maybe you didn't say). We can tell Howard how much fun it was. It's looking good that I'll be able to make it.

[chicago rc]

Not sure on Sunday, I will let you know, could be a possibility. As for indoor nitro I heard that even though Leisure Hours has a ventilation system the drivers get burning eyes and it smells of nitro fumes. That is really dangerous and I'm sure indoor nitro racing is not heavily regualted by anyone.

If you want to make any money or even break even there is no way to keep a big place warm with constantly re-circulated air. You won't be able to afford the utility bill. Go electric cars only, there are plenty of guys out there to race. Nitro guys can run in the warmer weather months and if they want to race that bad they will belly up for a TC3 or other car. I did...

[Walt]

Originally posted by chicago rc
Not sure on Sunday, I will let you know, could be a possibility. As for indoor nitro I heard that even though Leisure Hours has a ventilation system the drivers get burning eyes and it smells of nitro fumes. That is really dangerous and I'm sure indoor nitro racing is not heavily regualted by anyone.

If you want to make any money or even break even there is no way to keep a big place warm with constantly re-circulated air. You won't be able to afford the utility bill. Go electric cars only, there are plenty of guys out there to race. Nitro guys can run in the warmer weather months and if they want to race that bad they will belly up for a TC3 or other car. I did...

Remember though, for better or for worse, nitro is way more popular right now. If you can keep the driver's stand 'enclosed' and heated, and the pits separate and heated and just have the track heavily ventilated (and hence, the same temperature as outside), I think it could be pretty good. You'd be cold when marshalling, but you could even have the marshal positions be little 'warming areas'... I'm picturing marshaling positions that are chairs with a radiant warming light above each one, like when you wait in Chicago on the 'L' platform.

[Euge]

I'd be up for meeting at AJ's sometime. I haven't seen their indoor racing program yet.

Raced at Trackside yesterday. Had a tough day. for some reason I had a tough time driving. I placed 5th in the B main and finished somewhere around there in the main. For stock rubber (the class I race), they had an A, B, C and D main.
They had like 13 heats that day. 3 novice classes, 4 stock rubbers, 2 or 3 stock foams, 2 12th scale.

Their hobby store on the track premises has just about everything you'd ever want.

[chicago rc]

I have always heard that Trackside is one of the best racing programs around. Since it is in WI we tend to write them off even though it really isn't that far. The races at the Chicago Hobby Show this year were run by the guys from Trackside, they know what they are doing.

Euge, what would say about the way they ran the races, forgetting about your own racing troubles?

[Nexus]

i didn't like indoor nitro at Leisure....even with the ventilation it still got really smokey. plus if they opened the doors it got cold inside.

indoor carpet is the way to go...you don't have to run expensive ozite carpet. if you guys could open a good facility in your area i'm sure some of the nitro TC guys would pick-up electric during the winter.

the key would just to have a consistant turnout to...at the very least break even on running costs.


c'mon everyone convert to electrics....charge battery, turn on, race!....no flame outs, no needles to mess with, cleaner, air temp doesn't matter, ehleolol :p :D :p

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
Remember though, for better or for worse, nitro is way more popular right now.

is it? Are there more people who own nitro cars versus people that own electric cars? Yesterday at trackside there were like 50 or 60 people in attendance....all electric.

oh yeah, to comment on indoor ventilating......I raced at Leisure many times and the "ventilating system" doesn't do anything. or if it does, it's like emptying a leaking canoe with a teaspoon. I've been there when they had a few heats of nitro truck and 1/8th scale.... the track is so thick with fumes you could barely see, not to mention the health hazard. I guess on days when the racing schedule isn't packed, the venting system is okay, but if you get a lot of racers....it'll quickly overwhelm the venting system.

[chicago rc]

oh yeah, to comment on indoor ventilating......I raced at Leisure many times and the "ventilating system" doesn't do anything. or if it does, it's like emptying a leaking canoe with a teaspoon.

That's what I thought. Walt is on to something with heating only key areas but even that can get too $$$. A tank of propane to run each of those warming stations or even LP from Nicor to run them all day? And as popular as Nitro Touring is I think that since it is still so new compared to electrics that there are way more guys out there with electrics but maybe not for long?

If you charged $100 a person you could keep it really warm in there and well ventilated.:p

[Walt]

I agree that the ventilation is no good at Leisure.. they are trying to ventilate AND keep the track somewhat warm, and in the end, they are doing neither. I'd say you have to forget about keeping it warm in there and just do ventilation, if you're going to do it at all.

As for popularity, I guess I'm not really sure what the popularity of the different types of cars really is. All I know is that at Tinley this summer, we had an electric class and a nitro class, and the nitro class usually had 3 to 4 times the turnout of the electric class, BUT, perhaps that just because nitro was available, so people ran it. Maybe a lot of those guys already have electric cars or would get one. I'm not sure.

By the way, I have no plans to open an indoor track, but if someone else was going to do it, I'd sit down and talk to them about co-ownership.

[Euge]

Originally posted by chicago rc
Euge, what would say about the way they ran the races, forgetting about your own racing troubles?

Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed racing at Trackside. Yesterday was my second race day there. It's a great place to race. The guys running the race program did a great job. There's a guy announcing play by play as the racing happens, and that's always a plus. I talked to a couple local guys and they said that yesterdays program was a little chaotic and "that it's not always like this". I didn't notice anything and thought it all went rather smoothly although the race day did end kind of late. They started late (around 12:30 or 12:45) and racing ended late (around 7:30). I guess it's tough when you're trying to organize 13 heats. The pit area is great. Every other table has a TV set and they had some football on. There are two computer monitors mounted up high facing the pits and just looking at the screen you can see which race is going on and who's on what lap and everything. The hobby store, like I said before, is awesome. It's totally geared for the rc racer, not like most hobby stores that have to appeal to all hobbies.
The guys working the store are very knowledgeable. They have guys from Team1 motors and Team Hurricane there (and of course the shop has their products) so if you have any questions about their products, you can ask them.
I actually made a pretty big purchase. I bought a Turbo35 GFX. They had it for $409 and I am pretty much an electric only guy so I figured 'why not'. Anyway, the guy behind the counter says to me, "oh, and if you have any questions about the charger, Ken (actually, I don't remember the guy's name) from Competition Electronics is here today; he races here every sunday. That was nice.

[Euge]

Originally posted by chicago rc
And as popular as Nitro Touring is I think that since it is still so new compared to electrics that there are way more guys out there with electrics but maybe not for long?

I don't know which is more popular (now or future), but I will say that Electric will always be the entry point for new racers. A newbie is more likely to pick up a RTR electric than a RTR nitro.

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
As for popularity, I guess I'm not really sure what the popularity of the different types of cars really is. All I know is that at Tinley this summer, we had an electric class and a nitro class, and the nitro class usually had 3 to 4 times the turnout of the electric class, BUT, perhaps that just because nitro was available, so people ran it. Maybe a lot of those guys already have electric cars or would get one. I'm not sure.

Yeah, I guess it all depends on where you're racing, what's available in the area, and what time of year it is. I don't know what the numbers are either, I was just questioning that "nitro is more popular now", based on summer outdoor racing at TP. Your nitro statement could be true, I'm just saying I'm not so sure. Like, an arguement could be made that electric racing is more popular because when it's at it's height in the winter, it might outdraw nitro racing at it's height in the summer. And Electric racing at it's lowest popularity (in the summer) still draws a few whereas nitro racing in the winter is non-existent, albeit if there were a place to run, I'm sure people would run indoor nitro. It's all very confusing, but I'm just saying it's not a clearcut topic. Personally, I like electric because I can run my car year round. And motor tuning is a little more predictable in my opinion than engine tuning, but that could be because I don't know jack about nitro engine tuning.

[Hanibel]

Walt - I was going to contact you once I found a location. I was waiting to find out what people were looking for in terms of size of track and prefered surface.

I was thinking electric. Less worry about ventilation and other liability issues

Now on those nitros - what I am hearing is that if a location could be found that was covered, slightly sheltered from the wind and offered a heating pit & drivers stand, then the nitro guys would run during the winter. How about an old freight terminal. Concrete, covered lots of room. Internal structures would be easy to construct.

Just a few thoughts.

PS - Rearranged my schedule so that I might be able to make micros on Wednesdays again very soon

[Rookie Solara]

Indoor Nitro..............lets forget about all the HVAC and health issue, to get yourself a PERMIT to do an interior alteration of a existing warehouse in ANY TOWN IN USA and to run NITRO car inside is almost impossible.........

Don't ask me how Leisure Hour did that.......from what I heard, they don't have a permit for doing nitro racing with the exisitng HVAC setup....

I have several clients looking for some existing LOADING DOCK building.........those are the building that you can consider, the advantage of those building is they have 20-30 overheaded door that can open FRONT to BACK.....the only area that cover is the ceiling...............and with the right ventilation unit (which is a lot), you can efficiently ventilated all the air from inside and to the atmosphere.........and with the over head door opening....fresh air can come in........

The draw back is..........so does 12" of snow can come in..........and forget about HEATING the place.....if running NITRO indoor......it is technically IMPOSSIBLE to accomplish that way UNLESS someone are willing to spend good 500,000 on the building and still charging $10 to race for the next 100 years.....

I would never say never.........there were 2 indoor nitro race track in HK when I was young.....lasted like 2 years untill someone got SICK and got shut down by govenment............also, I know EUROPE does have a lot of indoor race track for nitro as well, in fact, one of the HPI world challenge in Europe is indoor NITRO........but that building was a fully equipped FACTORY at the beginning, all the HVAC are already in place....

[Walt]

In the end, indoor nitro is VERY difficult to do in the winter. You really can't have fresh air and heat for a reasonable cost. You can have one or the other... pick one (or do what Leisure does, and not really have fresh air OR heat).

Indoor electric makes a lot more sense. So, why don't a group of us get together and open an indoor electric track in Tinley. We could rent the place, so there would be little risk. I can get access to the scoring system. If there is enough of us, the work load running races and stuff would be tollerable.

It's just talk though... we'll probably never do anything... seems like things like this only happen when I push them, and I'm not in a position to push this since I'm already pushing to keep the onroad nitro racing going in Tinley, while raising a son and keeping my wife from killing/divorcing me.

If someone else is thinking about doing an indoor track in the South Suburbs, and they are looking for a partner, let me know because I am interested. For now, I can't even find someone who wants to run the off road track at the bowling alley next year, and all they'd have to do is build the track itself in what is now just a field, and then run the actual races.

[Hanibel]

Well, lokk at the interesting chain of events I started.

I will be doing some ground work for a new track. I have already been looking at some properties. Not all of them are in the best economic areas, but that makes the property owners a bit more interested in getting anyone to fill the property.

My main criteria for the track (besides size) are:

1) Location on a busy main street
2) Location near major highway (easy acces for all Chicago area racers)
3) Bathroom on location (Duh!)
4) 12 ft ceilings (Minimum)
5) Large electric hookup
6) Enough room for an onsite hobby area - run by whoever wnats it (helps offset some of the rent)

Anything else I shuold be looking for?

Let me know, I am new at this

Thanks
Dennis

[Walt]

Originally posted by Hanibel
Well, lokk at the interesting chain of events I started.

I will be doing some ground work for a new track. I have already been looking at some properties. Not all of them are in the best economic areas, but that makes the property owners a bit more interested in getting anyone to fill the property.

My main criteria for the track (besides size) are:

1) Location on a busy main street
2) Location near major highway (easy acces for all Chicago area racers)
3) Bathroom on location (Duh!)
4) 12 ft ceilings (Minimum)
5) Large electric hookup
6) Enough room for an onsite hobby area - run by whoever wnats it (helps offset some of the rent)

Anything else I shuold be looking for?

Let me know, I am new at this

Thanks
Dennis

Yeah, make it close to my track in Tinley so it's easy to move the scoring system and other stuff back and forth, and we know that it's a good location.

I'm not sure that a 'busy street' is needed. For an indoor track, you're not going to get much 'drive by' people anyways like you do with an outdoor track. The indoor racing crowd will hear via word of mouth, internet advertising and signs.

[chicago rc]

I agree with Walt 100%. Take a location near the bowling alley and if it is a terrible spot for most tenants that means low rent for you and no spot is terrible for R/C. I hate to use the saying but "If you build it they will come". Nobody will drive by and just decide to stop in and race, it's not that kind of business.

And an on-site Hobby store is a great idea, just stocking the key parts for a few lines will help keep people racing with you. 12 foot ceilings? I think the space for this is usually 24 foot or something, Howard would know what an industrial building is. PLenty high for racing.

I have a question for anyone that knows, do you have to use Ozite racing carpet or will some other high traffic type stuff do the job?

[Walt]

Originally posted by chicago rc
I agree with Walt 100%. Take a location near the bowling alley and if it is a terrible spot for most tenants that means low rent for you and no spot is terrible for R/C. I hate to use the saying but "If you build it they will come". Nobody will drive by and just decide to stop in and race, it's not that kind of business.

And an on-site Hobby store is a great idea, just stocking the key parts for a few lines will help keep people racing with you. 12 foot ceilings? I think the space for this is usually 24 foot or something, Howard would know what an industrial building is. PLenty high for racing.

I have a question for anyone that knows, do you have to use Ozite racing carpet or will some other high traffic type stuff do the job?

I agree with me 100% too... at least 50% of the time.

Regarding Ozite... I'm not sure that it's necessary to find an alternative. From what I remember (and it's possible that my memory is out of whack here), Ozite was competitively priced compared to industrial carpet... $3.75/square yard if I remember correctly.

The bowling alley is right on the edge of a sprawling industrial park... probably would be worth it to take a look and see if any buildings in there would be suitable.

[Rookie Solara]

If you think 12'-0" high celing is tall enough, I think that is just a absolute minimum (considered very low ceiling)........think about a 5 or 6 foot tall driver stand with someone as short as 'YAU MING" is standing on the driver stand and try to race.....guess what will happen...?

Beside, please consider the existing structure of the building....all the suspended unit...utiltiies overhang etc.

If you go to VENTURE or AJ, I think those are the perfect height (and size) for the indoor track, which is at least 20 plus feet high CLEAR....with a long span structure spanning across a 36-40 feet wide building....I don't know about AJ, but VENTURE are errected by those pre-engineered aluminum/metal frame system...very fast to erect and last a long time....but the most important - low cost.

Just a reminder, the track just cannot be as wide(and long) as the track like TINLEY.....that is almost impossible (unless you want to spend some major money and not even worry about the return), you want to look for building with a 40 feet wide span without a column spliting the span. Standard open web bar-joist can span up to 50'-0" wide, anything over 50'-0" will required extra engineering and get $$$......I have seen quite a lot of indoor track that are wider then 50'-0" but there are columns popping every 15 to 25 feet.......which is NOT a big deal, but still, it is not good to have your head wave left and right on the stand.

[chicago rc]

Do what Walt said but check if any of the current tenants around there have unused space. They might consider a sort of sub-lease arrangement to let you take a section of unused space? Times are slow right now so it could happen. But as soon as the economy turns around you might be kicked out!

As for me going to AJ's this weekend, the wife has plans for me but I am still trying to get away! See Howard, it's not just you.

[Walt]

Got my new charger yesterday (thanks again to everyone who helped me make a decision). It's the Integy model 16x7V6.. AC/DC, charge/discharge/cycle (with up to 30 amp discharge). As far as I can tell, there aren't any features of the Pulsar or Quasar that this charger can't also do (except the 8 amp charge rate of the Pulsar, but I don't need that). Seems to work pretty well. Ended up getting it at Al's where Chip was able to beat the internet and E-bay prices I had found.

So, who's going to be at AJ's this Sunday to race with me (and witness my 'triumphant' return to 1/12th scale after a 16 year hiatus)? Howard is out... going to see magnets or something. Brian? Not that I need someone else there to hold my hand or anything, but it's always nice to have a friend with to help out and talk with and stuff.

[chicago rc]

I am trying to get the OK to go race. If I go there are a few others that might come with. My TC3 is good to go other than a cracked bumper that I can drive with if I have too. I will let you know by the end of today.

[Rookie Solara]

Walt.......good to hear that you got your Charger now, so how are you going to do with those new 1.17 GP3300...? I am still searching the right way to START the new packs....can SOMEONE give us a pointer that what should I do to charge my 3300 for the first time...?

6amps charge and 20 amps discharger and cycle 3 times to start..?

Walt....after this week, please let me know what is the pinion that I should get for AJ....last time STEVE told me to get 29,30,31....but you have something smaller...let me know smaller pinion is better it taller pinion is better at AJ.

Good Luck Sunday..........and good luck to me too, I am so IN to ART these couple days, but only female naked body ART that is..

[g12314]

Are people still planning on racing 1/12th at Venture? I was looking into getting a 12th scale, but Venture is the only track I can get to.

Thanks,
Jimmy

[Walt]

Originally posted by g12314
Are people still planning on racing 1/12th at Venture? I was looking into getting a 12th scale, but Venture is the only track I can get to.

Thanks,
Jimmy

AJ's is closer to me than Venture, and I hear they have a better 1/12th following, so I'll probably just go there.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Walt.......good to hear that you got your Charger now, so how are you going to do with those new 1.17 GP3300...? I am still searching the right way to START the new packs....can SOMEONE give us a pointer that what should I do to charge my 3300 for the first time...?

6amps charge and 20 amps discharger and cycle 3 times to start..?

Walt....after this week, please let me know what is the pinion that I should get for AJ....last time STEVE told me to get 29,30,31....but you have something smaller...let me know smaller pinion is better it taller pinion is better at AJ.

Good Luck Sunday..........and good luck to me too, I am so IN to ART these couple days, but only female naked body ART that is..

The Fukuyama web site recommends bringing all the cells down to 0.90 volts per cell, and then charge normally and everything will be fine. They cycle the batteries many times before matching, so although the cells are new to us, they have been used several times already.

I discharged all 3 of my packs down to 0.90 volts per cell (with a resistor across each battery, one at a time), and then charged and discharged each pack to make sure the performance looked good, and all three packs looked good.

I plan to use each pack twice on race day (3 packs, 6 runs (2 practice runs, 3 qualifiers, 1 main).

I'm planning on showing up Sunday with my largest pinion gear installed (26 tooth) and we'll see how that goes. I have a feeling that it will take some time before I am competitive enough with the car to need to tweek the gearing, but we'll see.

One question for anyone that knows: does AJ allow traction compound and does anyone use it? Same question for Venture, although since they are under new ownership, I'm guessing that no one really knows that answer yet.

[chicago rc]

Venture did allow traction compound, AJ's i'm not sure. I ran a 23 tooth pinion at Venture and was doing better than the guy running a 24. But AJ's has a bigger track so maybe the 23 will wind out too soon? And this is on my TC3, not sure if 1/12th is the same deal?

And I just was told that the new Venture Raceway, called RJS Raceways, will run carpet on Wed. and Saturdays but Sunday they will roll out the astro turn and run off-road! My E-maxx has found a new home. Racing starts back up on Nov. 15th

[Rookie Solara]

Only thing I don't like about Venture is.....they practice the whole day and run the race at night.........that is worst then a SUNDAY race.

If they can race earily and finished by 5....I am all for Venture on SAT (Sat race is way better then Sunday race....)

Walt........please explain to me, how to discharge single cell down to 0.90 volt? Using what, and how to read that...? By using electrical meter and tap every single cell?

I don't think my charger can be adjust to discharge all cell to specific 0.90v....or I just missed that part on my manual.

[chicago rc]

I agree Howard, practice all day and race late Sat. night. I can get away with a Sunday day of racing but to be out all night Sat. the wife puts her foot down. And the only other day Venture races is Wed. so you guys will be doing your Micros in TP. I will get a micro one of these days (no comments Walt).

I just got a volt meter from Radio Shack for $15 and $3 for the little 12V battery. It works fine to measure the voltage on the cells. Also, I was told that to drain the NiMh packs the best is to use a Dean't type light buld discharger with a built in cut off switch that is set to 5.4 or 5.6 volts. Maybe that was in this thread a few pages back? Seems worth the $40 or so. And this months RCCA shows you how to build your own w/o the cut off though. I guess once the bulbs go dim the pack has dumped and should be around 5.4 volts???

[Nexus]

howard - no need to cycle a pack 3 times before you run them. if you want to cycle them 1 time just to make everything is cool with them i would do that.

you can hook up your 6cell pack and discharge it with your Quasar Pro...when you discharge it will cut-off at 5.4v which is basically .9v per cell. You don't need to build a light bulb thing...If you want to pick-up a Trinity Real Time Dscharger tray so once and awhile you could equalize your packs...euge has one and it works great.

If you're running Fukuyama Racing cells they should be excellent. I've been running them since they started selling them and have had great success...even with 1.15s and 16s.

The carpet at Venture will be the same...and traction compound is fine. TQ blue is nice because the smell isn't anywhere close to Paragon...which will get you high :P


The word also about RSJVenturewhatever track...is also when the Losi Mini XT comes out that will be pretty popular...just another toy to buy :P

[Euge]

most of the decent chargers out there can adjust the cutoff voltage like Nexus said. Just set it to 0.9 V per cell or 5.4V for a 6 cell or 3.6 for a 4 cell pack.
before I had a decent charger, I found this cool website where this guy made his own bulb discharger with a relay for the cutoff device.

http://www.balakracing.com/autocutoff.htm

the only drawback is he said right when it's at the cut off voltage, you hear a buzzing because the relay is switching on and off rapidly.
With a modern charger, it's all digitally controlled.

I do find that my new packs are sluggish for the first few cycles, but I used to just run them instead of cycling them on a charger. Either way, you'll see performance go up after a few cycles.

Anyone know if they race stock rubber TC at AJ's? I read a post on rctech where the guy said most people there run 19T foam? if so, that's a downer for me. I like running the rubber tires (longer wear) and they're using a fixed endbell 19T which I don't have. I had a blast racing stock rubber at Trackside last weekend, so I may go back this weekend before Venture (RSJ) raceways opens up again. I may just call AJ's and ask what the turnout for stock rubber has been like. But right now my plans are for Trackside.

[Euge]

walt, your charger questions inspired me to buy a T35 GFX. I have gotten to play around with it and it's sweet. While you charge, discharge or cycle, you hit a button and it shows the charge/discharge graph onscreen. It's cool to see that under discharge, my newer packs hold their voltages better than my older packs. What I mean is that my newer packs under discharge drop in voltage, then level out in the middle, then drop again at the end. The older packs just drop voltage throughout the discharge cycle (almost like a line with a constant negative slope). That's something I thought was cool about the GFX.
Anonther cool feature are the different discharge modes. So, not only can you adjust the discharge from 0.1A to 35A, but there are 'modes' that you can select that will vary the current draw during discharge. The charger will vary the current draw just like a motor will draw a varying current while being run on the track.
Also, one thing I like about the T35's cycling mode. you can select the number of cycles and select the rest period between cycles. So you can cycle a pack, let it rest for 2 hours, then cycle it again automatically.
Anyway, I guess all this info is pointless since Walt already bought a charger, but I thought I'd share it nonetheless. :)

[Euge]

Originally posted by Nexus
If you want to pick-up a Trinity Real Time Dscharger tray so once and awhile you could equalize your packs...euge has one and it works great.

I have the Trinity discharger tray (which is way overpriced). I think Integy makes a much more affordable model. Anyway, what nexus said is true, if you're really looking to get the most out of your packs, I'd equalize the cells once in a while. If you don't you'll notice that after numerous cycles, the cells will not all be equal in charge. some cells take a bit more charge than others and will take a tiny bit longer to discharge. So after a while, they'll all be out of whack from one another. So if this happens and you set your charger to discharge to 5.4V, some of the cells will drop below 0.9V/cell and some will be well above that.
Those of you who have done electric for years know this already I'm sure. This was intended for those new to electric.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Walt........please explain to me, how to discharge single cell down to 0.90 volt? Using what, and how to read that...? By using electrical meter and tap every single cell?

All I did was put a 0.5 ohm resistor across each cell, one at a time, and measure the voltage with a multi-meter. I think they tell you to do that just in case they shipped you a pack that had some partially charged batteries and some completely dead... if you didn't equalize everything before your initial charge, you'd have some batteries overcharging while others are still partially charged, and it would take many cycles to get everything equalized. However, all my batteries seemed to exhibit nearly identical behavior on my single cell discharge procedure, so I have a feeling that they all had very similar charges out of the box.

The Integy charger I bought will also cycle your batteries for you, up to 9 times, and the time between end-of-charge and start-of-discharge, etc., is also adjustable, but only up to 1 hour (in 1 minute increments), so I couldn't do a 2 hour pause like that Turbo35 charger can do, but it's still pretty good.

I'm curious about that Turbo35 variable discharge rate. It must still 'average' about 30 amps to be close to equivalant to a 5 minute race, so the peak current draw must be pretty high... any idea how high?

And I'm actually a little excited about racing 1/12th on Sunday... I even seem to remember having a dream about it last night. I guess that happens when I stay up late working on the car and then go right to sleep. BTW, for some strange reason, in my dream I forgot to charge my batteries and dumped on the first lap.. wierd.

[Euge]

funny dream, Walt. maybe it's a sign to convert to electric 100%? heheh jk :P
yeah, when you first get the cells, it's probably a good idea to equalize them. who knows how long they've been sitting on a shelf. Walt, you might as well buld your own discharge tray, as all it is is a resistor (and small bulb) across each cell. The Trinity one tells you to disconnect each cell as the bulb goes out.
yeah, the integy sounds like a great charger as well.
The T35 GFX can discharge up to 35A. Why do you say that the average current must be 30A for a 5 min race? I highly doubt that that's the case, but I'm no expert. Do motors draw much over 30A while racing? It might depend on the wind of the motor, but I always thought it was around 30A for a mod, and around 20A for a stock. A motor draws peak current when there's a load, so for a TC road course, it would be when the car accelerates coming out of a turn or from a dead stop. There's a minimal load in comparison on the straights (after speed has topped out). Especially in 12th scale where the car is so light and the motor isn't under a huge load. I haven't tried the discharge profiles yet, but I would imagine that the Offroad profile has a varying current that isn't too high since traction is low in offroad (TC draws more current because of higher traction surfaces) In offroad, if you accelerate hard, the wheels just spin (unless you use the slipper clutch). In oval racing, there are hardly any quick accelerating, just maintaining a somewhat constant speed, so the motor isn't under huge loads, so I'd imagine the oval discharge profile is a mild varying current draw. I dont know. I'll try it and let you know.

[Walt]

I wasn't thinking about racing conditions or anything like that... just if you've got a pack with a 3300 mAh capacity, and you draw that pack dead in 5 minutes, you're average current draw had to be 39.6 amps (just math to get that).

Then, like you said, in a real race the current goes down to nearly nothing when slowing into a corner. For all the time that the current draw is lower than 39.6 amps, it must be higher than that at other times to still get that average of 39.6.

I was currious if they really simulated race conditions. If so, I think there would be huge current spikes, probably well over 60 amps, followed by current draws of 15 amps or so, and momentary pauses with no current draw, followed by huge spikes again, and the averate current draw would be 39.6 amps for a 5 minute race and 3300 mAh batteries. For an 8 minute race, the average current draw would be about 25 amps.

All this assumes that your capacity is the stated capacity of the batteries, and that they are fully charge at time = 0 and fully discharged (3300 mAh later) at the 5 (or 8) minute point.

[Rookie Solara]

Wow...........all these ELECTRIC Charging 101 lesson.......man, I think I made a big mistake taking the 1/12 electric car....too much to absorb, but anyhow, I printed the last 4 pages of this thread and planning to go thru that several times at the "MAGNET" show on SUNDAY at Art Institute, I am sure that way, I will enjoy the show more.

OK...I've received the battery packs last night, they looks excelllent, but now.......what should I do next? Should I solder the pack now or I have to do the checking thing or equalizor thing...? Or Discharge them or charge them.....?

I know I don't have to cycle them now instead of just running them.....but I need the "1st thing to do with the new pack" idea...

Walt.......what am I suppose to do with those clear heat shrink wrap tubbing that came along with the new packs? Am I suppose to wrap those on each cell before soldering them? Pleae advise...

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
I wasn't thinking about racing conditions or anything like that... just if you've got a pack with a 3300 mAh capacity, and you draw that pack dead in 5 minutes, you're average current draw had to be 39.6 amps (just math to get that).

on the way into work, I figured you did it using math, but all I know is that from a full charge, I can run my TC on a indoor carpet road course and run for about 12 minutes with a lot of acceleration/deceleration but the last 7 minutes will be a lot slower. also, when the car comes to a stop, there's still voltage in the cells, just not enough to move the car. This is all with a 3300 pack. You can run a 5 minute main with 1700's. So, all I'm saying is that the assumptions are wrong if you calculate that the pack will be at 0mAh at the end of 5 minutes. In fact, most modern ESC's have a built in circuit that will cut off current to the motor if voltage drops below a certain level. That ensures that the servos and electronics still get enough power at all times.

I wish there were a way to measure peak current draw on a running car, but I don't know anyone who has. I don't think the average current draw is 30A, I think that's closer to the peak.

[Euge]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara

OK...I've received the battery packs last night, they looks excelllent, but now.......what should I do next? Should I solder the pack now or I have to do the checking thing or equalizor thing...? Or Discharge them or charge them.....?


I would go ahead and assemble the packs. the heat shrink is optional. some people don't like it because it adds another layer to the battery and cooling takes longer, but some will say put the heat shrink on to keep the cells looking nice and preserve the data on the label from rubbing off. I put them on. Assemble the packs, and you can always equalize them later. If you don't have a means to equalize or don't want to use Walts method, I'd go ahead and just cycle them anyway. They might be off from one another, but like Walt found out, they're not that far off. Some people never equalize. I'd do it if you're trying to get the most out of your packs, but I don't think it's a necessity. most people just assemble, charge, and go race.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Euge
So, all I'm saying is that the assumptions are wrong if you calculate that the pack will be at 0mAh at the end of 5 minutes. In fact, most modern ESC's have a built in circuit that will cut off current to the motor if voltage drops below a certain level. That ensures that the servos and electronics still get enough power at all times.

I don't doubt that my assumptions could be wrong here... I have not really raced electric for a long time as you all know. Back then, we had 1200 mAh battery packs, and you used every bit of that energy in your race, I assumed that the same is true today, but obviously not if you could run for 12 minutes instead of 5 (of course, then I question why don't you run 10 minute races then?).

And, just to clarify, I don't think that you have to run every last bit of energy out of a pack to have pulled out the full rated capacity of the battery, in fact, from my own experience so far (yesterday), I am getting pretty darn close to 3300 mAh out of my 3300 mAh packs with a cut off voltage of 0.9 V/cell. You could get more if you pulled down to 0 volts, but as you stated, that energy would be useless in the car because the delivery voltage is just too low.

Ah.. batteries... I think this is why I gravitate towards nitro. As 'complicated' as nitro engines are, I actually am more comfortable with them compared to batteries/motors.

Howard: I didn't even notice any shrink wrap with my batteries... maybe I didn't get any? And, as Euge correctly stated, you can equalize your batteries after the pack is assembled, so just go ahead and assemble them... just do your best to solder to them while heating up the cell as little as possible (tough to do). If you want to equalize them, you don't need a special discharge tray made of light bulbs. Just a simple resistor will do and you can monitor voltage with any simple volt meter (that I assume you have.. if you don't, get one... they are cheap and a tool that every RC racer should have for basic trouble shooting).

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
.....then I question why don't you run 10 minute races then?

You could run for more than 5 minutes but the voltage would drop off and you'd be running slower at the 10 minute mark. I was against runnining a 10 minute main against the nitros for this reason, nitro performance is about the same at the 10 minute mark (with a fuel stop) whereas an electric's performance drops off considerably. I'd be all for running more than 5 minute mains against other electrics though. I think the 5 minute race was conceived back in the day when we had 1200 mAh cells.

and yeah, you could gear accordingly to use up all your 3300 mAh by gearing up. at a set voltage, max current draw is @ 0 rpm. Guys who run mod motors gear to use all their voltage up in 5 minutes because their motors can draw much more current (depending on the wind). A stock motor will melt @ the current required to use up 3300 mAh in 5 minutes. A 27T motor has way too much resistance compared to a low wind mod. That's why after you run a stock race for 5 minutes, most racers have more than half their mAh left over.

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Walt
Howard: I didn't even notice any shrink wrap with my batteries... maybe I didn't get any? And, as Euge correctly stated, you can equalize your batteries after the pack is assembled, so just go ahead and assemble them... just do your best to solder to them while heating up the cell as little as possible (tough to do). If you want to equalize them, you don't need a special discharge tray made of light bulbs. Just a simple resistor will do and you can monitor voltage with any simple volt meter (that I assume you have.. if you don't, get one... they are cheap and a tool that every RC racer should have for basic trouble shooting).

I think I will have to SEE it in person to completely understand the whole process, like you, I found electrical way more complicated then Nitro.......just a lot of preparation and beyond knowledge for just a hobby.

[Nexus]

euge knows this is my style....charge and run your car. at the level we race at most guys will not even notice the difference between equalized cells and non-equalized. that's more about maintainence.

you actually don't have to know that much...i think alot of people just take it a few steps to far and the results don't necessarily turn into better lap times.

I like to keep it simple stupid...KISS technique.

i will always refer to the 'bucket' racer as a testiment to this KISS technique...that guys is to fast and he keeps it simple.

charging info...

http://www.fukuyamaracing.com/page3.html

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Nexus
http://www.fukuyamaracing.com/page3.html

Hmmmmm, stupid me.....I don't even realize there is a page for charging from Fukuyama......I think I got the "stupid" part right from the KISS technique....LOL

I just started up my micro with electrical taped TIRES and do the drifting in my basement track.....I think I just invented a differnet kind of racing for micro (Drift racing).........I love it.

[Euge]

nexus is 100% correct. I enjoy thinking about this stuff, but the actual benefits are probably debateable. You guys are good drivers already, so you should already be plenty fast.

So, just do what nexus said....charge and go! One of the fastest guys at Venture doesn't do any battery maintenence. He's just a really great driver.

[Rookie Solara]

Thanks guys..........I think after all the reading, I would just say....screw it, too much to handle, just charged and hope the battery don't dumped on me....

Beside, 3300 mah running a 5 mintues Q and M.....I don't think that required a lot of maintanence......what 3300 battery cannot last 5 minutes (if properly geared correctly).......?

Mab_man20..........I think I'be got you the computer problem resolved..........this morning, when I tried to clean my other room for my "Soon to be pain in the butt daughter/son"....I found my wife's old Pentium 1 120mhz laptop with Window 98 and still in perfect working order (w/CD rom or disk drive).......that computer is worth like $200 and is collecting dust, I am not going to sell it but I think I don't mind to let you guys use it or at least try the Alycat software ASAP....

However, 1 problem, that computer has only 16meg ram, not like what Alycat said 64 meg requirement.....so, you can either spend $100 to upgrade the memory, or give it a try and see 16meg will work or not....

Anyhow, let me know.....

Howard

[mab_man20]

Wow, lots to comment on!

Things to know about batteries: Discharge the night before the race. Day of the race, peak the battery try to time it so it comes off the charger as fresh as possible. After race, discharge if done with the pack for the day, charge it for 10 minutes at whatever amps you normally use. Store in room temperature, not on concrete, and start the cycle again. If you dont race every week, try cycling the packs 1-2 times on the off weekend. If your not racing for a while, charge completely. Let batteries cool naturally, do NOT put on fans. No definitive proof of this, but promatch advises it. Often the second charge will have a little more punch.
Charge anywhere from 5-6 amps.

Rookie: Cool, could you bring it buy the store early this week so i can try it out? A memory upgrade shouldnt be that much, maybe 50.


History of race length. For years all offroad races and TC were 4 minutes. When 2000 cells came out ifmar decided to lengthen the races to 5 minutes. With the advent of more powerful batteries this question has been raised over and over. I agree with the majority in that races should stay at 5 minutes. When you start getting longer than that the quality of your batteries becomes a serious issue. Suddenly you must buy new packs all the time and a .01 volt per cell can mean the difference between winning and being in the C main. Battery wars hurt the hobby back in the day, i dont want it to happen again.

[Euge]

Originally posted by mab_man20
I agree with the majority in that races should stay at 5 minutes. When you start getting longer than that the quality of your batteries becomes a serious issue. Suddenly you must buy new packs all the time and a .01 volt per cell can mean the difference between winning and being in the C main. Battery wars hurt the hobby back in the day, i dont want it to happen again.

well said. And batteries will lose runtime as they get used. The average racer cannot afford to buy new packs every 4 or 6 months to stay in the battery wars. 5 minutes is good, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish I could race for 1 or 2 more minutes.

Walt, curiously I had a dream last night that I bought a nitro and it ran flawlessly.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Mab_man20..........I think I'be got you the computer problem resolved..........this morning, when I tried to clean my other room for my "Soon to be pain in the butt daughter/son"....I found my wife's old Pentium 1 120mhz laptop with Window 98 and still in perfect working order (w/CD rom or disk drive).......that computer is worth like $200 and is collecting dust, I am not going to sell it but I think I don't mind to let you guys use it or at least try the Alycat software ASAP....

However, 1 problem, that computer has only 16meg ram, not like what Alycat said 64 meg requirement.....so, you can either spend $100 to upgrade the memory, or give it a try and see 16meg will work or not....

Anyhow, let me know.....

Howard

You can try that computer, but I think that the memory will definitely need to be increased, and it's actually pushing it on the slow side too. It's worth a try, but I bet if you ask at your next race if anyone has an old computer you can have, you'll get something even a little bit better.

And Howard... baby's aren't always a pain in the butt... mine crawled today for the first time, and it was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. You'll still have fun, it will just be different fun, and you'll still be able to race once in a while I'm sure.

Thanks all for the battery advice. It's been a long time since I've done this, but it's starting to come back to me. So, now that we've covered batteries and chargers, who wants to educate me on motors (break in, spring/brush tuning, rebuilding, etc.)? You can either keep it generic for now, or specific knowing I'll be running the 19 turn 'spec' motor out at AJ's.

I'll let you guys know on Monday or Tuesday (I'm off Monday so don't know if I'll have a chance to get on the forum) how Brian and I did at AJ's tomorrow.

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Walt
And Howard... baby's aren't always a pain in the butt... mine crawled today for the first time, and it was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. You'll still have fun, it will just be different fun, and you'll still be able to race once in a while I'm sure.


Yes...thanks for the advise, and I knew I want the baby on day one, since I love taking care of baby.....but "Wife" is still getting me worry recently, the baby is doing all these "1,2 punch" every night like 12:00, 2:00 4:00 and 6:00 in the morning....and countless in the rest of the day....now, I have a very good feeling it is not a "SHE"......that might be a "HE" and practicing some SOCCER move or KARATE CHOP in wife's stomach.

Good luck tomorrow to you and Brian.....tell me after 16 years of waiting, can you still get your finger on the throttle for the the 12th scale...? I am sure you are OK since you've been practicing on the MICRO, I think 12th is just a bit more difficult then MICRO, and that makes Micro fun....

[TRF Drive Hard]

Hey Rookie... i hear you have the m18 on order... so are you the guy to hook me up with one? and if so, how much and where to send payment? thanks

ted

[Walt]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Good luck tomorrow to you and Brian.....tell me after 16 years of waiting, can you still get your finger on the throttle for the the 12th scale...? I am sure you are OK since you've been practicing on the MICRO, I think 12th is just a bit more difficult then MICRO, and that makes Micro fun....

Actually, I think that the micros at Tinley are more difficult, now that I've done both. The Tinley track is just so tight... no room for error. If you can run fast and clean with a modified micro at Tinley, I think you can do just about anything in RC.

Anyways, my return to 1/12th scale was a lot of fun. I put that car down on the track and it was like I never stopped racing 1/12th. The car handled great right 'out of the box'. I deserved to finish somewhere between 2nd and 4th, but I somehow managed to win. I know that the top qualifier was complaining of radio hits during the main. In honesty, if he wasn't having problems, I really didn't have anything for him... he qualified 9 seconds ahead of me on a track where we were turning 12.0 laps, so 3/4 lap ahead of me. I qualified 3rd, with 2nd through 4th within 1.5 seconds of each other.

I'm not sure how Brian ended up, but he was doing pretty well in the rubber tire stock motor touring car class.

My car felt like it was handling great, but I was way low on power compared to the fastest guys, so I definitely need that motor education (and maybe some more battery discussion).

I know I could have geared up more. The largest pinion I had was 26 teeth (with my 100 tooth spur), and it was really slow. I borrowed a 30 tooth from someone and the car was still slow on the straights, and I still had 1500+ mAh left in the pack after the 5 minute races. Other guys were running up around 33-34 teeth, but the biggest I could fit in my 12L was the 30 tooth, so I just stuck with it. I'll get a smaller spur for next time (motor couldn't move any further forward than it already was).

I'm sure I need a little more gear, but the other guys are adjusting the spring tension and the types of brushes, plus the timing is adjustable on these motors, but I can't remember what to do with any of those adjustments based on how the motor is running. Also, I wonder if 3300 mAh NiMH's are the best choice for 5 minute long 'spec' races. I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible to pull 3300 mAh out of those batteries in only 5 minutes. Might be better off with a high capacity NiCD and really gearing up and pulling some current?

I don't think I'll be able to race out there next Sunday, but I'm going to try to make every other Sunday. I think part of the reason yesterday was so fun was just the fact that I wasn't running the races... nice to be one of the guys just racing again. Just need to get approval from my lovely wife...

Oh, and one complaint about the Integy charger.. the 'beep' is WAY too loud when you make selections or when it's done charging... need to open that sucker up and do something to make it quieter.

[chicago rc]

AJ's was a lot of fun. Big track, nice layout with a decent straight and some turns that you could really fly through if you hit the them right. In the stock rubber tire class we were turning 15 sec. laps, about 20 laps in 5 minutes.

I ran 2 quals with a 23/100 gear set-up, way too low. I went up to a 30/100 in the 3rd qual and still did not make up much time but was going faster as I started banging into stuff a little more compared to a near perfect run with the 23/100. I too had enough battery left to run another 5 minutes if I wanted to so the gearing was my issue. It's a stock class so that makes sense!

I finished 2nd in the main, there was only an A main with 7 drivers in it but I had qualified behind the top guy within 4 seconds. I was happy. You can use tire compound there and w/o it you will be in last place! My only complaints were Walt's loud beeping charger :-) and the smoke in there, it was like being in a bar for 8 hours. I guess there is some kind of rule that R/C guys must be smokers. Anyway, great time there and worth the drive to DeKalb. AJ runs a good program, sweet facility, well lit, lots of benches, hobby shop on site, some food & drinks (nothing like the bowling alley), and a good group of racers.

Photos from the day will go up soon.

Brian
www.chicagorc.com

[T-Racer]

Ok Guys

As you all no Walt is modest. Let me tell you the truth after 12 years off from 1/12 scale racing Walt kick some major A-- there at Aj's Raceway. The A- main was the most exciting race i seen in a while. oh by the way Nick Smirt 2nd and Frank Stiubitsh 3rd and Walt 1st. All gas racers from Chicagoland RC Raceway.


T-Racer

[Rookie Solara]

Wow.........I am glad that I got the 12th scale now...............and I can't wait to be there on 23th or 30th.....

Walt....go to rctek and take a look at the last 10 pages of the VENTURE thread, there are ppl talked about the TRINITY springs and brushes on the 19T motor, I am sure you know....you are not suppose to use the same spring and same brushes on the positive and negative side....I remembered it was some green springs and pink springs with some # of brushes........that is the key.

So, what pinion do you think I should get now...? I know the SW12 I've got can push the motor all the way back to gear with something like 34T............please advise.

Oh, also, my AE charger (which is the same as yours) those BEEP sound is loud as hell too...........

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by TA03 Drive Hard
Hey Rookie... i hear you have the m18 on order... so are you the guy to hook me up with one? and if so, how much and where to send payment? thanks

ted

Ted...yes, just send me a email, and I will leave you a spot........only if I have any left.

I cannot tell you the price, nor the release day for now........but should be end of this month or early x'mas

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Walt
I know I could have geared up more. The largest pinion I had was 26 teeth (with my 100 tooth spur), and it was really slow. I borrowed a 30 tooth from someone and the car was still slow on the straights, and I still had 1500+ mAh left in the pack after the 5 minute races. Other guys were running up around 33-34 teeth, but the biggest I could fit in my 12L was the 30 tooth, so I just stuck with it. I'll get a smaller spur for next time (motor couldn't move any further forward than it already was).


I saw that guy "STEVE" again at Al's last week.........he mentioned, some fast guy will use the PRO-MATCH Ni-CD that will last approx 5:30 mins but those batteries are way BEYOND the 3300 (due to the HIGH OUTPUT - more punch compare to nimh)........

So, did you guys see this STEVE..? He is like mid 40 and need to walk with a stick....but he sounds like he know alot of 12th scale.

Also....what transponder are they using..? AMB or AMB digital? Can I use the personal there?

So........who is going next week and do they run any practice on SAT at all?

[chicago rc]

I saw Steve there. Didn't know which car was his though. And AJ's has the older AMB system so no PT's.

On another note....

I sent out the brand new Chicago R/C Newsletter on Nov. 7th. Could you guys let me know if you received it? If you did not, you can go to chicagorc.com and just type in your e-mail on the home page then click "Add Me". The 1st issue had some good info in it, the Dec. issue and beyond will be even better.

The track owners are starting to cooperate with me so I should be able to provide detailed, up-to-date race info on ALL tracks from now on.

Brian
www.chicagorc.com

[Euge]

Nexus and I raced at Trackside on sunday and had a great day. The only complaint that we had was that we could hear Walt's beeping charger from Brookfield, WI.

Turnout was awesome. 12 heats. 2 sportsman (novice) classes, 4 heats of stock rubber, the rest I can't remember, but I know they had stock foam, modified foam, and 2 heats of 1/12th scale using stock motors.

They spread out the racers for the qualifiers and pack the heats. There were 9 drivers in the stock rubber A main and 6 in the B main, and I think 5 or 6 in the C main. They consolidated the two novice heats into one main for them.

Nexus had a great day and qualified into the A main. I had a tough qualifying day and only made the B main. I was able to partially redeem myself in the B main. I started last on the grid and caught the leader. I made a few mistakes and ended up finishing 2nd. Congrats to Nexus though.

Walt, the motor theory questions are probably all out there on the internet. But if you guys are running adjustable timed motors, I'd bet money that the guys who pulled you on the straight had their timing dialed in. Gearing has a lot to do with it as well, but I'd also look at what they're running their timing at. One quick and dirty way to do it is to loosen the endbell so it's still on, but you can rotate it. Hook up the motor to your adjustable power supply and apply 3V. rotate the endbell while it's running and you'll hear the motor speed change. I'm no timing expert, but I believe increasing timing will increase rpm at the cost of some torque. So, similar to gearing up. Perhaps you could get away with leaving the timing at 0 degrees and just do it through gearing, but all I know is that this summer at TP, I had my arcornite 19T timed at about 20 degrees and it was a LOT faster than timed at 0 degrees. Also to note, increasing timing will wear on the comm more.
As far as maintenence goes, I'd keep a decent supply of brushes as you might change them each race day. I think most race compound brushes only last 5-8 runs then they'll still work, but performance will be lacking. when you change brushes, true the comm and break in the motor by running it for about 2 minutes at 3V under no load. This will seat the brushes. There's more to tuning a motor, like aligning the brush hoods and centering the armature in the magnetic field, polishing the bushings and/or armature shaft, tweaking the brush tension, using comm drops, etc.... but fresh brushes and a fresh comm are the best ways to tune your motor.
The batteries of choice are GP3300's. I don't think you could even buy NiCds anymore. Why are you so intent on having 0 mAh at the end of the 5 mins? If you want to do that, you could gear your car so you're going 5mph at full throttle the whole 5 mins. You'll be spinning the motor so fast, you'll probably run it down to 0 mAh at the end of the 5 mins. Or you could superglue the armature in the motor housing, drawing obscene current and running down the pack in seconds. But then again the ESC current limiter would probably kick in. You basically gear your motor so that you hit top speed at the end of the straight. Sometimes I'll gear low to get a better drive out of the turns.
Any battery capacity you have left shouldn't matter. You should gear to your motor and the track, not to your batteries. 3300 mAh is waay more capacity than you need unless you're running a low turn motor. Now, even if you use just half your battery capacity, that's fine. You should think about it as average voltage over the 5 mins. true, 1700 mAh Ni-Cd batteries will be close to 0 mAh at the end of 5 mins and I think Ni-Cd batteries have a higher initial voltage, but what was the average voltage over the 5 mins? a 3300mAh battery will have a higher average voltage, especially if you use just half of the capacity.

[Euge]

this is another informative site about motors.

http://www.rccars.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=19

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Euge
Now, even if you use just half your battery capacity, that's fine. You should think about it as average voltage over the 5 mins. true, 1700 mAh Ni-Cd batteries will be close to 0 mAh at the end of 5 mins and I think Ni-Cd batteries have a higher initial voltage, but what was the average voltage over the 5 mins? a 3300mAh battery will have a higher average voltage, especially if you use just half of the capacity.

Euge.........one thing I always want to know, like above said, after a full race day and all 3 of my 3300 packs are 1/2 full (or 1/2 empty).......and I have 6 more days to wait untill next race day, WHAT should I do for those batteries...?

(1) Discharge them and CHARGE them full and let it sit and on SAT night, I go PEAK them again?

(2) Just discharge them and charge them on SAT night before race...?

(3) Since they are NIMH, I don't have to discharge, just CHARGE them full and peak them on SAT night?

(4) Nothing...........just charge them on SAT night before race...

Thanks..........................and I read the RCCARS forum about motor, and you told me elect is not that HARD at all...........come on, you knew you are kidding, right? That is a full college electrical engineering degree courses over that fourm.......JUST MOTOR only........not counting BATTERIES yet.

[Euge]

Rookie, here is a good article on maintaining NiMH batts:

http://www.rccaraction.com/rc/articles/NiMHbatcare1.asp


by the way, all I do is after I race, discharge the pack to 0.9V per cell or 5.4V for 6 cells or 3.6 for 4 cells.

If possible, cycle the pack (discharge then charge) the night before, but always return the pack to 0.9V per cell.

That article claims that if you leave NiMH cells fully charged for any extended length of time (overnight), the cells will turn flat (lose voltage) and never acheive the peak voltage it once did.

If you want to keep it simple, the day of the race, charge, run the pack while practicing, then when you're done practicing, discharge, let it rest, then charge. at the end of the day just discharge to 0.9V per cell. I hope your charger has an adjustable discharge voltage. If not, just put half a charge into it (try and keep track of mAh). You can do this by fully charging and discharging half (1500 mAh). I think most chargers keep track of mAh at least.

[Euge]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Thanks..........................and I read the RCCARS forum about motor, and you told me elect is not that HARD at all...........come on, you knew you are kidding, right? That is a full college electrical engineering degree courses over that fourm.......JUST MOTOR only........not counting BATTERIES yet.

cmon, nitro is just as complicated. needles? I thought that was for drugs? RC as a hobby in general doesn't take much effort to get into it, but to do really everything to the TOPS, you have to put a lot of effort.

[chicago rc]

Let me just remind everyone that a perfect driving line lap after lap, clean passes w/o crashing, and a fairly well maintained car will win the race over a perfect battery pack, tuned motor, and $1000 in hop-ups. I lost the main yesterday by 12 seconds and had one crash during the race that took at least that long since my body jammed up in the tire and the marshall stood there looking at it as if the race was paused or something.

Of course driving the car for hours to get better is fun but we need something to do during the week so I guess that's what hop-ups are for :cool:

[Rookie Solara]

Euge....thanks, and I have 1 question, on my Reedy charger, the discharge feature, all I can adjust is the AMP, (just like charging, I can adjust from 01amp to 20 amps)..........ok....so, the HIGHER the AMPS to discharge, the faster that I can discharge my batteries, right...?

I am sure I cannot adjust the VOLTAGE of the discharge feature, nor the "discharge 1/2 of the pack only" feature..........the Reedy charge was PRE_SET to 0.9V cuttoff already, so when my pack is done discharging....it average CELL should be around 0.9V each.

Now..........how can I find out, what AMPS should I discharge?

[Nexus]

rookie.

Batteries:

I have the Reedy Quasar Pro and GP3300s....here is what i do.

At the end of the race day I discharge them at 20amps down to .9v - 5.4v for a 6 cell pack. The Quasar Pro will automatically cut-out at this level.

If you are going to race within a week....i would just wait till race day and run them for practice or cycle them once...then you'll have the best power from them on the 2nd or 3rd run....but don't run them any more then 3 times in one day.

Once maybe every 1.5 months I will use euge's discharge tray and equalize all the cells in the pack. :D


Motors:

stock motors - only motor to really run and be competitive is the Trinity Monster Stock.

as far as tuning....lets keep it simple again...

brushes to use - Trinity 4499s or Reedy 767s for best results.

comm cutting - depending on your preference i would say anywhere from 5-10 runs. top racers cut every 2-3 runs but at the rate your motor won't last long. i run close to that and have no problem...the motor i ran at trackside had about 4-5 runs on it before i started the day....i just cleaned the motor and it ran great! i won 2 qualifiers with it then i cut it for the A Main.

19T - i don't run them...stock fast enough

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trackside was packed...the level of competition there is hands down the best i've seen in electric onroad. My guess is there were about 40-55 racers there.

Heats:
2 sportsman stock
1 TC 19T stock/rubber
4 TC stock/rubber
2 1/12th stock
2 TC stock/foam
1 TC mod

Every class was very tight....in TC stock/rubber the difference between the TQ and the C main was only 2 laps! Even the sportsman racers were really good.

Walt/Rookie - I would definitely say the drive is worth it if you want to test yourself against some good 12th scale competition. A good number of them are preparing for the cleveland race USTC so that would be a good test for you guys.


brain/walt - not sure why you guys talk about how much battery you have left after your races. like euge said i really woudn't be to concerned about that. gear your motor based on the track and driving performance. at trackside i was running 23/72 in my TC3 and running well...i actually dropped a pinion tooth down to 22/72 and was able to run 1 more lap then my previous runs.

one of my problems in the past was always gearing up to catch up to faster racers. sometimes this may work...but most of the time you can make up is corner speed and the short shoots between turns...the extra punch the lower gearing gave me allowed me to pick-up time in those areas and not lose much on the straights.

there are intricacies to motor tuning....which can be learned over time...example...when i gear down you do lose some rpm but you can change to a light spring or bend the positive spring slightly to lesson the pressure on the comm which will help give back the rpm's you lost by gearing down :confused: :D ;)

[Nexus]

brian.

23/100 - i see you're running 64 pitch...nice :)

but that gear ratio is way to high for almost any track.

i run 48P and depending on the track i've run anywhere from about 9.00 - 7.20. running the 23/100 gives you around a 10.87 ratio which is waaaay to high for stock touring...the same ratio's running 64P and the 100T spur would let you run the 28T to about the 34T pinions.


this winter i am thinking about switching to 64P because you can make finer changes in your gearing.

[Walt]

You guys have to remember that when I last raced electric, it was 8 minute races, 4-cell, mod. motors and 1200 mAh batteries... making the 8 minutes was the key. Ideally, you dumped right after crossing the finish line. If you could run 2 laps after the race was over, you needed to gear up. You always geared up until you had NO useful energy left in the pack after your race. Gearing up ALWAYS made the car faster.

I'm beginning to learn that this might not be the case anymore with 3300 mAh batteries and 5 minute races.

It just surprised me so much to realize that after my 5 minute race yesterday, I had enough capacity left in those batteries where if I could have had those half-discharged batteries 16 years ago when I last raced electric, they would have been the BEST batteries EVER! Did anyone follow that? Basically, after racing for 5 minutes, those batteries yesterday were still WAY better than FULLY CHARGED batteries last time I raced electric. What a difference.

I've got a lot to learn, but I'll catch on quick.

How about this for a 'engineer nerd' question... can anyone explain, with some fundamental scientific backup, why a DC motor would respond to different brush/spring combinations on the positive verses the negative side?

[Euge]

yeah, Walt, it's a different world nowadays especially when it comes to battery technology. I used to backyard bash back in the days of the 1200 mAh batteries and I remember how little runtime I got. There are even different maintence methods. NiMH batteries don't like to be dead shorted, and that was recommended for NiCd

Yeah, the 3300 mAh batteries are nice, but there are still a few classes that have to worry about 'dumping' in a race. At Venture they raced 12th scale and one guy had a 10 turn Kr in his car. They ran an 8 minute heat and his batteries dumped around the 7 minute mark. Also, if you run modified TC, you can easily dump in a 5 minute main if you run a low turn motor. So those classes of RC racing still have battery concerns and they would probably gear up if they had battery capacity, but not neccesarily so. Like Nexus said, sometimes gearing down gives you better drive in the tight sections. For 19T 12th scale and stock TC, we're not drawing massive current, so it's nearly impossible to gear to use up your battery. You're better off gearing for your motor and the track.

And I TOTALLY agree with Brian. Most drivers shouldn't even worry about batteries/motors/ESC/tires/etc.......they should just try to run clean laps. On sunday my car was fast, as I was able to put down fast laps, but for some reason I had a hard time staying consistent and made more bobbles than I would have liked.

And I don't remember if I said it before, but congrats Walt on a great finish in your first electric race in over a decade! I'm not surprised you did well since you got some great driving skills. But yeah, congrats and on behalf of all electric racers, welcome back!

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
I've got a lot to learn, but I'll catch on quick.

How about this for a 'engineer nerd' question... can anyone explain, with some fundamental scientific backup, why a DC motor would respond to different brush/spring combinations on the positive verses the negative side?

I have no doubt that you'll catch on quick, especially with your racing background. Perhaps someday if I get back into Nitro, you guys can expain why my car flames out so often.....

as far as your question of the wear on the positive side versus the negative side; I'm an engineer, but I unfortunately can't give you an engineer answer. I've been reading all the messageboards and I have read many answers, but none have been very detailed or satisfactory. The positive side arcs a lot more, but I have no idea why. So for those of you that don't know, the positive side is the side that delivers all the power to the comm. most people run a more aggressive brush compound on the positive side so it conducts more current (brushes with more silver content tend to be harder on the comm). Also, since the positive side arcs more, you have to use more spring tension on that brush. A milder brush compound (that has more lubricant in the compound) can be used on the negative side with a lighter spring because it doesn' t arc as much. (less brush tension = less friction, but you need to keep the brushes from bouncing, so you can't go too light). Anyway, that's all I know, but I don't know why the positive side delivers more current than the negative side draws. If you find out, let me know. :)
If you post it on that rccars.com link I posted, I think they'd give you a good answer....maybe.....

And having said all that, I got tired of keeping track of all my different brushes and what compound they are. I just decided this past weekend to run Reedy 767's on both the positive and negative side. Those brushes are awesome! I still use less spring compression on the negative side though.

[Walt]

I'm an engineer too (mechanical, not electrical), but I remember a little from my electrical engineering classes. I do know that the average current has to be the same on both the positive and negative side of the motor... the current must be constant anywhere in a circuit... sorry, the 'average' current... it is possible for there to be some short term storage going on (my guess would be that it's inductive coupling if anything... I don't think these motors have capacitance?), which could cause the peak current to be different on the different sides.

And I'm not sure that I agree with the statement that the positive side delivers all the power to the comm. I'm pretty sure that the 'positive' and 'negative' sides were pretty much meaninglessly labeled way, way back. We actually know now that electrons flow from the negative side to the positive side in DC circuits, but I have a feeling that doesn't matter.

Where I think you've hit the nail on the head is in regards to arcing. If the positive side is arcing more, then that tends to tell me that the positive side happens to be doing the switching on and off of the current. If that is the case, then that makes sense to me why it would have different brush/spring requirements. I bet that's it.

[Nexus]

i am an engineer also...locomotive though :D

And I TOTALLY agree with Brian. Most drivers shouldn't even worry about batteries/motors/ESC/tires/etc

practice, consistent laps, and a good set-up will usually make the most impact on your race results.

top end stuff....nah...that can come later :P

for the last year i've run middle of the road 'stuff' in my TC3. from my experience i would keep atleast 2 motors around a 2 sets of tires.

esc - Novak Dually
servo - JR Racing Z590 - only $40 :)
TC - stock FT TC3 w/one-way


Walt/Brian - great job in the win! Hope to be able to see you at the track this winter.

What was the turnout in TC stock/rubber at AJs?


FYI - Saturday is the opening raceday for the new RSJ Raceway formerly known as Venture.

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
Where I think you've hit the nail on the head is in regards to arcing. If the positive side is arcing more, then that tends to tell me that the positive side happens to be doing the switching on and off of the current. If that is the case, then that makes sense to me why it would have different brush/spring requirements. I bet that's it.

I'm an ME too (with a CS degree) and I think you're right. the positive side probably does all the switching on the comm so that's why it arcs. There are capacitors on most motors nowadays as well. I believe those are put in to reduce noise. Different motors have them in different places, and they're small. Some are in the endbell, and some are soldered to a small circuit board and visible. Other motors require you to solder your own capacitors on there.

[Euge]

Originally posted by Nexus
practice, consistent laps, and a good set-up will usually make the most impact on your race results.

top end stuff....nah...that can come later :P


yeah, Nexus has done extremely well for having middle of the road stuff and not always being able to race on a regular basis because of his job. Just goes to show that smooth driving can be the best way to make your car fast.

But he still steals some of my ideas....like putting helical threads on parts that strip.
:P

[Walt]

Smooth driving is definitely, by far, the most important aspect of RC racing. Until you have that, there is no point in upgrading anything else on the car.

However, on Sunday, I felt I was driving my car as fast as it would go... my lap times were super consistent, and consistently 0.4 second slower than the fastest guy out there. Then, in the main (first chance to race with him since he was in a different qualifier), I saw the reason... he was gaining 10 feet on me down the straightaway... that was it... that was the difference. If I can make up that slight straight line speed difference, I'd be able to give him a better race. On Sunday, it was his to loose, not mine to win.. I like it better the other way around... all I could do was run as fast as my car would go, not hit anything, and hope he had problems, which he did.

I'm going to try a little more gear next time, and play around with the timing and then maybe the springs and brushes, and then I'll be ready.

Oh, and I had a question about the maintenance schedule for these motors.. can I assume that the advice given is for 6 cell touring car racing? Is it possible that 4-cell 1/12th scale is easier on the motors and might not need maintenance as often? I was very surprised to see that after these 5 minute races my motor was barely even warm to the touch.. the touring car motors seemed very hot after the same 5 minute race. I have a feeling that the wear on these motors goes up exponentially with voltage, so those extra 2 cells makes a big difference.

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Walt
Oh, and I had a question about the maintenance schedule for these motors.. can I assume that the advice given is for 6 cell touring car racing? Is it possible that 4-cell 1/12th scale is easier on the motors and might not need maintenance as often? I was very surprised to see that after these 5 minute races my motor was barely even warm to the touch.. the touring car motors seemed very hot after the same 5 minute race. I have a feeling that the wear on these motors goes up exponentially with voltage, so those extra 2 cells makes a big difference.

Same thing for Micro, 5, 6 or even 7 cell (AAA) makes the different, on speed, and on the temperature of the motor........beside, we are running 2 different cars, TC are with more gears, more fliction, require more torque = more load on the motor..........(also, TC are heaviler for sure, bigger tires, more load)

1/12.......light weight, direct drive, smaller tires, less load (as least less then TC)....and 4 cells, that might be the absolute MINIMUM required voltage to push those 19T.

Euge/Nexus........thanks for the help on BATTERIES and MOTORS, I will save these note for future reference.

Before I am putting all the 12th elect thing together.........I just spend 2 days to pack up my NTC3, parts and options and put her on EBAY, I think it is time to retire the NTC3 and get something else next year...........

[chicago rc]

Howard, don't do eBay, I will give you $50 for everything since that car never could seem to win a race :-)

OK, it's been a few pages since I picked on Howard, I feel better now.

And AJ's had the following turnout:

Stock 27T Rubber - 7 guys
19T Mod Foam - 9 guys I think, 2 heats at least
1/12th 19T - 8 guys

There were 6 heats though so I am missing something? Help me out here Walt. I know as long as 3 guys have the same class of car AJ will run the heat. So if all of us rubber tire guys agreed to run foam that class would have changed for us. I was surprised at how well the rubber tires hooked up though, no spinouts all day. How nice is that after coming off the pavement.

[Walt]

Sorry, but I'm not going to be much help. I know there were a lot of qualifiers with few people in them (like ours for 1/12th, 4 and 4), but then he put a lot more races together for the mains, like ours, where all 8 of us ran together. But one of your numbers doesn't add up.

[chicago rc]

OK battery discharging experts out there, I put my 3300 NiMh pack on the deans light buld discharger and was told to unplug it as SOON as the bulbs start to dim. I do that and then measure the packs and get 6.8 volts or so. How am I supposed to get them down to 5.4 volts safely for storage? Leave them on the discharger longer and longer until I get 5.4 volts? What am I missing here.

[Walt]

Originally posted by chicago rc
OK battery discharging experts out there, I put my 3300 NiMh pack on the deans light buld discharger and was told to unplug it as SOON as the bulbs start to dim. I do that and then measure the packs and get 6.8 volts or so. How am I supposed to get them down to 5.4 volts safely for storage? Leave them on the discharger longer and longer until I get 5.4 volts? What am I missing here.

Maybe the guy asking for help shouldn't be giving advice, but I think I know the problem here. The recommendation to discharge to 0.9 volts/cell really means 0.9 volts UNDER LOAD per cell. In other words, where you stop your discharge will be determined by how quickly you are discharging (the current draw).

I think that's why 'they' recommend discharging at approximately the rate that you'd run your batteries at.

Here's my recommendation. Put the volt meter on the pack WHILE it is hooked up to the light bulbs, then unplug when you reach 0.9 volts per cell. Don't worry about what the voltage goes back up to after you disconnect the batteries.

Saying you discharge to 0.9 volt per cell is not enough information to really know what state your batteries are in... you need to know at what current. 0.9 volt/cell at no load is WAY different than 0.9 volt/cell at 30 amp load, or 50 amp load.

So, am I in the right ball park here electric guys?

[Rookie Solara]

Walt:

Again.......what motor are most ppl running at AJ for 12th now..? The same one that we've got....Trinity Arcornite 19 Turn Motor?

Apparently, there are 2 motor with the same name....except one is called PRO and is like $20 more...

Please advise.

[wrxdan]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Walt:

Again.......what motor are most ppl running at AJ for 12th now..? The same one that we've got....Trinity Arcornite 19 Turn Motor?

Apparently, there are 2 motor with the same name....except one is called PRO and is like $20 more...

Please advise.

I think the "pro" motors are the same motor just tuned. Different springs/brush combo and I think some co. true the comm?

Not sure it's worth the extra $20?

[Euge]

Originally posted by Walt
Maybe the guy asking for help shouldn't be giving advice, but I think I know the problem here. The recommendation to discharge to 0.9 volts/cell really means 0.9 volts UNDER LOAD per cell. In other words, where you stop your discharge will be determined by how quickly you are discharging (the current draw).

So, am I in the right ball park here electric guys?

right on target. Yeah, when you discharge to 0.9V per cell, that's UNDER LOAD. if you hook up a voltmeter or if your charger shows whatever the current voltage is......you'll notice that after it's done discharging, the voltage will 'bounce' back up. That's normal. The pack is just normalizing back to some higher voltage. Don't worry that it isn't staying at 0.9V per cell. Put it back under the same load and you'll see it'll quickly go back to 0.9V per cell.

[Euge]

pro stock motors are only a couple dollars extra. I am not too familiar with mod motor pricing. $20 seems like a lot of money. I think most pro motors have different brushes, trued comms, balanced armatures and have been run on a dyno.

[Walt]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Walt:

Again.......what motor are most ppl running at AJ for 12th now..? The same one that we've got....Trinity Arcornite 19 Turn Motor?

Apparently, there are 2 motor with the same name....except one is called PRO and is like $20 more...

Please advise.

I should have spent more time looking around at what everyone else was running, but I didn't. From the people I talked to, everyone is running some flavor of 19 turn spec motor, but I didn't ask about brands or anything, and one guy that was helping me out but not racing 1/12th at the time said that my Arcornite 19 turn motor might technically be illegal, but he didn't say why and I was in a hurry at the time so I didn't ask.

No one would have complained about my motor based on it's performance though, as it was like I was standing still on the straights compared to some of the other guys.

Next time I'm there I'll have already gotten the initial bugs out of the car so I'll have more time to walk around and see what everyone else is running.

Did I mention that the 12L came with non-flanged front bearings and TRC wheels need flanged bearings? I didn't notice this until I had a wheel fall off during practice. I also had to figure out a way to get my left rear tire to not hit the rear pod... AE uses a strange left rear hub design... ended up borrowing someone's clamp style hub.

Speaking of initial bugs, that reminds me of another question for the electric gurus on this forum... twice on Sunday my car just wouldn't go when I turned it on... no throttle response. I eventually ended up having to hit the 'set' button on the speedo (GM SX9) and go through the setup proceedure (pull trigger, push trigger, wait), and then it worked again. Not a big deal when it happens when I first turn on the car, but something also seemed to happen during the last qualifier. Coming out of a corner the car just suddenly stopped... I could still steer, but no throttle. I started to walk off the driver's stand when suddenly it started going again and continued as if nothing happened the rest of the run.

Could I have a flakey ESC, or is it more likely that was a brush or something? I did just barely clip a 'dot' right before the car stalled, but no big deal... the kind of dot cliping that means you missed a perfect corner by about a quarter inch... nothing that even slowed the car down (well, except that the car stalled just after it). I was going to make sure I test before I put on the body and just see if it keeps on happening.

Oh, and once I thought I fried my new charger... I was walking around talking to people and the charger was hooked up and charging the pack in the car. I sat down and touched the car and got a pretty bad static shock, and the charger just completely shut down... no display, no fans, nothing. I unplugged and plugged back in the charger and it seemed fine, but that scared me a little.

[Nexus]

walt.

the guy probably said your motor might be 'illegal' because they run 'fixed endbell' 19T motors. the arcornite you have has adjustable timing.

fixed endbell 19T's:

Orion Element
Peak Dynasty
Reedy Spec 19T Quad Mag - i think

weird about the charger thing....not sure what the deal with that was.


as far as the motor stalling...it could be a number of things.

- 'hung' brush
- solder coming loose from the motor or another point
- solder coming loose on you 4cell pack somewhere
- if you use comm drops...to much of it on the comm

sometimes on something like mentioned above you can just give the brushes and tug and snap them in and out or while holding the throttle some give the wheels/spurs gear a spin and things all of a sudden work.....hey atleast you didn't need to run and get the car and get the ignitor and starter box out :D

double check those things before you go out to race. hopefully it just isn't that your ESC is bad.

[Euge]

The 19T debate is an ongoing discussion at every track/messageboard. Your motor may be illegal at AJ's, but I know it won't be at Venture or Trackside (I believe). I know at Leisure, they were running 19T stadium truck and they decided upon any fixed endbell 19T, which the Arcornite is not. The arcornite also has bearings instead of bushings and standup brushes instead of laydown brushes.....some places might have a gripe about that. AND NOW, Reedy has a quad magnet 19T that supposedly has more power than any other 19T out there, but I'm sure quad magnets aren't legal everywhere either.
As far as the freaky behavior of your car (when it wouldn't go after a slight bump or something)......hard to tell without seeing your car, but I would guess that the motor brushes are hanging up in the brush hoods. If you can get to your car, try snapping the brushes (pull them out slightly then let the springs 'snap' them back). Another thing is that I've experienced that once in a while when I used too much comm drop fluid on the brushes. I think if you use too much, it may short out the comm depending on the orientation of the armature, but that's just a guess.

[Walt]

So neither of you think that the stop during the race is related to the two times I had to go through the 'setup' proceedure before the start of a race to get my ESC to work? Like, whatever made the ESC loose it's cookies at the beginning of those other two runs didn't just happen in the middle of a run? Of course, with the stall during the run, I never did push the setup button to make it go again, but I was pulling and pushing on the trigger several times until it did suddenly go again.

And I should have mentioned that the first time the car wouldn't go before a run it was at my bench, and I had not put the body on yet or anything, so the first thing I did was check all the connections, which looked fine, then I pulled on the brushes and let them snap back (I did remember that trick from my childhood), and they seemed alright too. That's when I just hit the setup button and then everything went back to normal.

[mab_man20]

<------------ sick of reading


Anyway, if you still have a lot of juice left at the end of a race there is one other little trick you can use that will also net added performance on the track. What amps are you charging at? I recommend charging at 6 amps, HOWEVER, this will slightly decrease the life of your packs, but at $40 for 6 cells i think this is a good trade off (they will still last you all winter).

Ummm, what else did i want to comment on.... I cant remember.

Anyway, it sounds like your speedos profile is messed up somehow. If it is still under warrently give Horizon hobby a call and see if they can help you out. Even if you have to send it off they have a fast turn around.

[Euge]

yeah, it could be your speedo (non-swim trunks). But without seeing it, hard to tell. heck even seeing it, it's hard to tell.
Nexus and I have just experienced what you experienced once or twice and know the root of our problem. I don't think either of us has had ESC problems. Although I fried one of my ESCs and had to send it back to Novak.

[warpainter]

walt the problems you are having with your speed control are common at ajs with gm spped controls and older novacs it is from static and nothing else ive raced there all last year and had the same problems gm you can reset novac just blows out to help this problem we use a little static gard end of problem as for as the arconite motor im the one you talked to aj says any 19 turn with machine wound arm and a fixed end bell is what they run . as far as your gearing you were severly undergeared 29 30-100 will just not cut it you should be at about 35-38 depending on your rollout also you said you could not get a bigger pinion on it did you have it in right holes on the can if you have any questions give tony g a shout and get my # im shure we can walk you thru some setups i watched your car thru the day it was way to slow scrubed to much corner speed and did not turn enough.

[chicago rc]

Longest sentence ever!

[warpainter]

sorry didnt realize this was english class

[itsjusme]

With 3300 packs you do not discharge them all the way down, you are supposed to leave a little charge in them. If you will not be racing for a while you are supposed to fully charge them for storage. They are not at all like 2000 or 2400 packs, so whatever you know about those, just throw it out the window.

[chicago rc]

Sorry warpainter, that was my comic store guy (Simpsons) remark, I couldn't resist!

Your advice makes sense since Walt actually experinced the static 1st hand as his charger got zapped. Must have some protection in there since it came back on. You gave me an idea, buy Static Guard for $3 at Wal-Mart, throw on a new label called "ESC Static Guard by Team Power" and sell it for $12 a can. You get 10% in royalty fees.

[Walt]

Originally posted by warpainter
walt the problems you are having with your speed control are common at ajs with gm spped controls and older novacs it is from static and nothing else ive raced there all last year and had the same problems gm you can reset novac just blows out to help this problem we use a little static gard end of problem as for as the arconite motor im the one you talked to aj says any 19 turn with machine wound arm and a fixed end bell is what they run . as far as your gearing you were severly undergeared 29 30-100 will just not cut it you should be at about 35-38 depending on your rollout also you said you could not get a bigger pinion on it did you have it in right holes on the can if you have any questions give tony g a shout and get my # im shure we can walk you thru some setups i watched your car thru the day it was way to slow scrubed to much corner speed and did not turn enough.

Thanks Tim. I guess I'm glad the GM controller that just shuts down instead of completely blowing out. I think I'll try a trick Novak (Gary Novak himself) told me back in 1985 or so... rub a dryer sheet on the bottom of the car before each run. Worked back then when I was blowing out a Novak1 speed control pretty much every weekend.

I remember talking to you about the motors used at AJ's, and that's how I knew it was 19 turn spec, but I could have sworn you specifically said 'Arcornite', maybe there is more than one 'Arcornite' motor? All I want is to have the same motor as everyone else... I don't ever want to win a race and be accused of running an illegal motor, or anything else illegal for that matter... certainly last Sunday, even if my motor was illegal, no one was going to complain since my car was so obviously slow, but I want to be totally legal. If you could, please tell me exactly what motor to buy, even a link to the Tower Hobbies site would be helpful, or a specific part number.

I know I was totally under geared, but I don't think it was possible to get any larger pinion in there. It was not a matter of adjustability on the motor mounting holes, but rather, the motor was all the way as far forward as it would go, pushing against the back end of the T-bar. I have a solution for this problem for next time: 88 tooth spur gear. With the 88 spur, a 31 pinion is equivilant to a 35/100, so that gives me more to play with.

And if my car was way too slow in the corners, scrubbed off too much speed and doesn't have enough steering, then I can't wait to get it fixed, because I thought the car was pretty darn good already. I have a feeling that from the spectator's perspective what you might have seen as not enough steering might have just been my severe lack of power. I was not steering limited in the sweepers, for instance, I was power limited. It might have looked like I was backing off the throttle to make the turn radius, but I was not... I thought I was going to break the throttle trigger off my radio I was pulling on it so hard.

Looks like I won't be able to race this Sunday, but next Sunday, November 23rd, I plan on being there. I think I should pit next to you and try my best to soak up your 1/12th scale knowledge (if you're sure you want to let me do that... remember, I just might start beating you once in a while after you've taught me all your tricks...) Seriously though, thanks for the help.

[warpainter]

walt any time you want help.and as far as piting next to us ill save you a seat. the motor that everybody is running is the trinity cameleon 2 , but get the pro and ill show you witch springs to run, and brushes

[Walt]

Originally posted by warpainter
walt any time you want help.and as far as piting next to us ill save you a seat. the motor that everybody is running is the trinity cameleon 2 , but get the pro and ill show you witch springs to run, and brushes

Thanks... I'll order one up (and Howard probably will too).

I'll have that motor by the next time I race, November 23rd most likely. I'm looking forward to it. Oh, and Frank bought a 1/12th car too, which you might have already known, so he won't need to borrow yours anymore (I'm guessing he liked 1/12th.. he sold his clay oval touring car and bought the 1/12th instead).

[Rookie Solara]

Tim(Warpainter).........this is Howard, and I wish I can pit next to you and learn about 12th scale over again (after 14 years of absence).........but one thing I can tell you that I can beat walt is, you can teach me everything that you know, but I can garantee you that I WON'T be able to beat you because I will never drive like WALT in my life time (probably)............

But still, I would like to learn more about motor, batteries and others too.........

So....C2 is the answer, right...? When I talked to BIGJIM (I think he is very professional about motor tunning at RcCar forum)....he actually told me to get the new Reedy Quat Magnet 19T Motor....and said that is the latest one is better then C2 and Arcornite 19T......he actually asked me WHY PICK the odd motor at the beginning....? Any thought?

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Walt
Thanks... I'll order one up (and Howard probably will too).

I'll have that motor by the next time I race, November 23rd most likely. I'm looking forward to it. Oh, and Frank bought a 1/12th car too, which you might have already known, so he won't need to borrow yours anymore (I'm guessing he liked 1/12th.. he sold his clay oval touring car and bought the 1/12th instead).

Hmmmmm, Frank is on board too..? I think Tony G will be next, and I am wondering..................will JJ be interested in 12th scale too? Frank and JJ.......again?

Just wondering................

[Rkmori]

Sorry to interupt,

Chicago r/c I got your news letter it looks real nice very well thought out.

Hey Mab, will there be Micro racing at HTOP tonight.....

[Walt]

Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Hmmmmm, Frank is on board too..? I think Tony G will be next, and I am wondering..................will JJ be interested in 12th scale too? Frank and JJ.......again?

Just wondering................

I forgot about JJ... why isn't he racing 1/12th at AJ's... isn't he back at school now, and isn't that school Northern? Maybe it's a different school he goes to...

I can't speak for Tony, but I think he decided to stick with touring cars for some reason, but I'm sure he can change his mind and join us in 1/12th.

I really don't know how anyone can drive a 1/12th car and not want to get one... they just handle so great, and with very little tuning effort. Just run the stock car with grey rear tires, purple fronts. Make sure your toe and camber are not completely messed up and you're there. No shocks/springs to mess with. No diff. tuning. No need to mess with caster either. And that's just the front.. on the back of a 1/12th car, practically nothing is adjustable.

I'm sure that once you get up into the top 0.0001% of drivers the setup of the 1/12th car becomes pretty critical, but most of us will never be there anyways.

If you want an RC class where the best driver wins, 1/12th is about as close as you can get to that right now. Boy, I wish I could race this Sunday, but my brother in law is visiting from Wisconsin, so I'm stuck at home...

[mab_man20]

Yes there is racing tonight at HTOP

[Nexus]

he actually asked me WHY PICK the odd motor at the beginning....? Any thought?

problem number one was asking or telling him you were running something other then a Reedy product. Big Jag..I mean Jim knows motors...but he is waaaaaaaaaaaay to biased about Reedy motors.

my advice is just ask guys here or at the track...you'll never really get a good answer from him if it's not a Reedy product.

[Rookie Solara]

Originally posted by Nexus
problem number one was asking or telling him you were running something other then a Reedy product. Big Jag..I mean Jim knows motors...but he is waaaaaaaaaaaay to biased about Reedy motors.

my advice is just ask guys here or at the track...you'll never really get a good answer from him if it's not a Reedy product.

I have that same feeling about him too...............he must be Reedy employee too....

[Euge]

Tonight (11/15) is the inaugural race at the new RSJ Raceway. I haven't seen the renovations first hand yet, but will be racing there tonight with Nexus.

Doors open at noon (so I'm told) and racing starts at 6pm.
If you're looking for lots of competition, this is the place to be. I hear a good number of Trackside regulars from Wisconsin will also be in attendance at the opening race day.

I haven't seen it first hand, but they seem to be using a new barrier system with certain sections that are moveable so there will be different combinations of track designs they can use.

check it out at:

http://www.rsjraceways.com

[chicago rc]

I went up there last night for the open house (no racing though). The track is pretty cool. The photos on the web site do it some justice, I took a few myself as you can see. There are 4 TV's in the pit areas hooked up to an A/V system so he can play DVD's or put the games on on Sundays or whenever. All pit tables have a new surface, painted white with some kind of epoxy that doesn't chip away over time. And 48" flourescent light tubes were added under all of the work areas so it is much brighter than before. And planty of parts in stock already on the wall.

It's also official that Sundays are going to be an off-road inddor day with the track being converted by adding in a bunch of those pre-made plastic table top jumps you see at the skate parks. Should be sweet. E-Maxx's, Mini-T's, Stadium Trucks - all welcome for that.

http://www.chicagorc.com/rsj_raceway/trackshot1.jpg

[HauntedMyst]

That looks SWEET!. I wonder how much a track (the boards and insides) cost to make.

[chicago rc]

I was told that he can change the layout into 14 different configs? Those islands are all 2x4's and cut plywood, nothing too fancy but with the paint job they did it really makes it look sweet.

Haunted, I sent you a few e-mails and no reply, maybe I have an old address. Just wanted to get that painted hummer body from you - I am at brian@chicagorc.com

Brian

[Euge]

raced there last night with nexus. AWESOME.
only complaint is that I wish it was earlier in the day. I'm sure it'll get moved to earlier in the day because some kids had to leave early.
great turnout and great racing.
for you 12th scale guys, there were about 6 guys with those cars there. running stock motors and foam tires.

[Rookie Solara]

Wow..........the track looks great, and I can see there are 1/12th scale STOCK class over there.....

So now..........what is stock? Stock = Stock motor?

And I just cannot see I can be there racing......6:00 till 10:00pm at night...? Sataurday night...? Wow....that is like missing impossible (even harder then Sunday afternoon racing).

I hope they can maintain a DAY and NIGHT race on SAT.....10-12 practice and 12:30 till 5 racing...then 5-7 practice, and 7-10 racing...

Very much sure that will bring more ppl there and can make almost everyone happy.....

[Nexus]

I hope they can maintain a DAY and NIGHT race on SAT.....10-12 practice and 12:30 till 5 racing...then 5-7 practice, and 7-10 racing...


i don't believe that will ever happen. there isn't a track around that runs two different times for racing on the same day. you just wouldn't get the turnout needed. sunday they race earlier...12-5pm.

as for being more convient for everyone...it's hard to say because they have never really had a problem with low entries.


stock = yes...means stock 27T motor. 99.99% running Trinity Monster Stock.

[Rookie Solara]

Then leave me no choice...........I will see I can find some Wednesday night racing then.............

And I heard they are charging $15 to race and $7.50 to practice...true?

Thanks Anthony for the stock motor info..........I am I have to pick one of those monster stock just in case.

[Euge]

The race fee was $12.50 (not sure why the oddball price), not sure how much it costs for just practice.

yeah, losing a saturday night is tough, but like nexus said, sunday racing starts sooner.
and right now, Nexus and I are planning on racing there this wednesday night. I talked to Goop and he said even if it's just me and Nexus, he'll run a race for us.
I hope there's more people, but I've never been there on a wednesday and this will be the first wednesday for the new RSJ Raceways.

[g12314]

I will hopefully make it out there Wednesday. Took the OB4 International out of mothballs and started preping it. Have a Peak Hellfire RS24 laying around, is it OK to run in stock class with it?

If there will be people racing 12th scale on Weds. night I'd be interested in that also.

Jimmy