Electrics are finished!!!?

[Andrewg]

Last weekend they ran a 102.9mph two way average at the NAMBA straightlines in California!

[Ron Olson]

Not to mention a one-way pass of 103.68 MPH!

[laxmasta2039]

i didnt come up with this, but it's a good point:
since alot more research and industry is put into electric motors that just hobby-wise, they will probably be soon easily outstripping nitros, which are only used by the hobby industry.
whadya think?
sounds like a very arguable point to me!!


joe

[Ron Olson]

No, it all comes down to cubic Dollars and technology. I don't know of any other uses for these motors either outside of the hobby business. I did once put 2 rewound motors on my sons Power Wheels ATC just for fun, boy that thing hauled!

[laxmasta2039]

ron, im not sure if this is what you were talking about, but there are tons of other uses for electric motors. Power steering, fans, a myriad of power tools, blenders, and a serious experiment by General Motors [no, really, they're thinking of having hydrogen fule cell cars on the market by 2010]
anyway, i think we all agree that elecs are not wimpy beginner boats!!


joe

[laxmasta2039]

ron, im not sure if this is what you were talking about, but there are tons of other uses for electric motors. Power steering, fans, a myriad of power tools, blenders, and a serious experiment by General Motors [no, really, they're thinking of having hydrogen fule cell cars on the market by 2010]
anyway, i think we all agree that elecs are not wimpy beginner boats!!


joe

[Ron Olson]

Let me know when Aveox starts making brushless motored blenders.

[FrankW]

There's always the military. Both Aveox and Astroflight have been and are working on motors for the Military.

-Frank

[laxmasta2039]

ya know Ron,
i think there would be fierce competition for rights to a brushless motor setup in a blender.......food processing is a dangerous industry!!

[duckweed]

I don't think that electrics are done,but the bar has been raised,
and from what I hear there is a contingent of gas guys planning on how to break the 100 mph mark.
It all a matter of appling technology,I wonder how super conducting fits into this?;)

[laxmasta2039]

planning?
gassers have hit 120 something a while ago [that was w/ a MAC nitro, im assuming you mean gas/glow when u say gas]

[duckweed]

Should have been more specific gas,meaning gasoline;)
spark ignition.

[Ron Olson]

This is the talk of most boat sites now. The gasoline guys are working on it, harder now that they got upstaged by an electric!

[FrankW]

I'm gonna start working on an electric SAW boat soon. I'm hoping us fast electric boaters can surpass the 120 mph record of the nitro guys.

-Frank

[laxmasta2039]

yea, probably, but not that soon..........good luck, post some pivs

[FrankW]

Well... in one year we've gone from breakng through the 80 mph barrier to breaking through the 100 mph barrier. While an extra 20 mph will be extremely hard to get, it can be done. New cells are coming out all the time, and new prop technology is working it's way out into the open. LOL.

-Frank

[rcBPman]

The fastest nitro right now is 130. elctrs have no chance of getting there.
well for electrics to go fast they need alot of cells, right! well the more cells = more weight.
Un less they come up with a weightless cell, there is no way electrs will brake no more than 105mph, and that is with the wind behind them.
Good luck but you got no chance!!!

[laxmasta2039]

rcpbman,
im not exactly an elec guru, but i gotta disagree w/ you there.....
hydrogen fuel cells have been in developement for a while now, and General Motors has stated that they will have a breakthrough electric car on the market by 2010.........i bet a smaller version of the cells will be on the market by 2008. with cells that produce an incredible amount of power for they're size [at least 10 times that of alkalines] elecs will be leavin nitros putt-putting in their wake......


joe

[niccload]

Laxmaster - you are right... sort of...

A LOT of companies are developing fuel-cell technology as normal batteries are not capable of doing the business - eg cellphones and laptop computers.

Hydrogen fuel cells have been around for a while, but storing the hydrogen is expensive and dangerous, so it has never been useable in everyday enviroments...

New development is the metanol fuel cell. Instead of just joining hydrogen to the surrounding oxygen to generate the electricity, methonal also contains carbon - whcih makes Carbon Dioxide (the same stuff that we breathe out)... The methonal will be available in cartridges which you just plug into the fuelcell.

10ml (about 2 tabel spoons full) of methanol can pruduce a constant 80w of power for 8 hours... and these usits are small and light - about the size of a cigarette packet!

This technology is available NOW - but the big corps. are still trying to make as much money as possible out of alkaline batteries before they are forced to move...

Electric motors are not dead - they havent even started yet.

If people are interested in finding out more - let me know and I will post some links etc.

Cheers,

Nic.

[laxmasta2039]

thanks nic for correcting me...
i just read an article 'bout GM's gamble in "wired",and that's where i got my info.


joe

[Duncan_W]

I would like to find out more about the methanol fuel-cell technology. How about posting some links?

Thanks.......Dunc.

[FrankW]

I'm pretty sure that Lithium Ions will be the new battery wave. They can't be fast charged yet, and can only handle up to 5 times the rated capacity for discharge, but that may be changed in a year or two. Lithium Ion Polymer cells put out 3.7 volts, and the 3000 mah cells only weigh 2 ounces. So for a 7.4 volt 3000 mah pack, all you need is two cells, totalling 4 ounces. These cells are becoming very popular in the electric R/C plane field.

-Frank

[Ron Olson]

The electric boat that set the record was not even dialed in! They said that it was capable of higher speeds but it must be that time was not on their side during the Time Trials. They were trying out one of Hacker's 600 motors available. The next Time Trials, watch out!
On another note, Andy Brown says that he has the engine and prop capable of a 150 MPH pass, now he just needs the right hull to throw it in! Maybe I'll get to see it at next Internats.

[rcBPman]

There is no way that electrs are going to kill nitro with speed. That 150mph has to be a joke.
The fastes electric so far is 103mph.
There is no way they can increase the speed 50mph that quick.
The fastes nitro is 126mph.
Electrics have to still get to 120 never mind 150.
It might be possible but it is goingto take along time!!!!!
Good luck electrics

[Andrewg]

RCBP

the fact is the lectric records were set with boats smaller than 3.5 riggers and eclipsed the 3.5cc records and 7.5cc records - nearly anyone can set up an electric to run 80mph ....

tell me you can do that with a nitro for less than $700

[Ron Olson]

Andy Brown is a nitro racer and currently holds the official record. The "A" in MAC engines is for him.
As far as electrics go, I would not be surprised to see much higher speeds attained in 2003.
Andy, if anyone could build an electric boat that could 80 MPH, why hasn't it been done sooner! And I'll bet that they had more than more than $700.00 invested in trying to get there!

[Andrewg]

Ron several people ran 80mph this year basically by following the gudielines set down by Dick Crowe last year - who this year ran 94 - this year 80 mph just wasnt remarkable

Hacker motor and controller $450 24 cells $150 ply balsa boat $50 and hardware $96 prop $13 = $759

Most of what goes 80 mph is setup ie applied experience and testing. Some people this year made a big noise about how fast they were but IMO their preparation did not include the correct method. Dick and Larry on the other hand have the required method down pat as does Joerge - Dick and Larry tested one day Joerge turned up witha freshly assembled boat bu the preliminary work was impressive

IMO great racers and record breakers are made off the track as much as on it.

[laxmasta2039]

andrew, that is a good point about the sizing of the elecs compared to the nitros, and elecs blowing away nitros of thier size, but the 103 was set with a monster elec [32 cells if i remember correctly] which is much larger than a 3.5cc boat.
i disagree with anyone being able to set up a 80mph elec, or like Ron said, lots of people would be doing it. [lots of people= semi-newbies/people who arent largely involved in the sport] i think that a new serious boater [sort of a newbie that's going all out] would get better results with a small nitro than an elec. for example, the .18 boat im building now is costing me about 400, and im looking for a realistic target speed of 50mph- this is only my third boat, and all im doing with it that is different than a RTR is
a) building my own simple wooden hull, no lucrative fiberglass breakthrough design
b) installing the same hardware that would be installed on a RTR, except that it is higher quality. again, im not doing anything special to the prop, or testing the boat out with a large number of hardware sets, to find the best one for it.
c) using my own radio, which is a 50.00 [including recienver/servos] Futaba 2ER
d) putting on some badass decals, which most people would argue doesnt affect performance, but hey.


joe

[Andrewg]

"but the 103 was set with a monster elec [32 cells if i remember correctly] which is much larger than a 3.5cc boat.

It may weigh more but it isnt bigger

"i disagree with anyone being able to set up a 80mph elec, or like Ron said, lots of people would be doing it.

I said anyone can do it because the components you need are ALL off the shelf items - however you have to build competently and refine the setups - that is an issue for anyone - if you want to run a nitro boat at the same speed you will be in the same boat

The real reason no one wants to run 80 is becuase the runtime is all of 30 seconds and the risk of equipment damage high. The difficulty is not high if your method is sound and why becuase the guys who did it shared their setup secrets.

" [lots of people= semi-newbies/people who arent largely involved in the sport] i think that a new serious boater [sort of a newbie that's going all out] would get better results with a small nitro than an elec.

I disagree, I also sell both.

1. If this was so the mass manufacturers would be selling all small nitros - they are selling mainly electrics because they are easier for people to transport run and maintain - these are results which as as or more valid for most people

2. the rtr motors are very ordinary in terms of output. Most modified put out as much power or more as the rtr nitros

BTW modifieds on 6 cells have run over 50 mph

They are reliable but when the fuel settings go off on the carb - the plugs temp is not right someone uses a low power heater on a cold plug dirt in the fuel system - the list goes on and on - I only know a few people competent in the rapid diagnosis and repair of nitro carburation problems - they are all racers and a lot of racers are not!

The setups for most electrics ( except where people use car motors - they shouldnt) are set and forget esecially with brushless - you can fine tune the hull and props if you wish

I find with more than 600 clients most of the problems bought to me to fix (nitro or electric) are related to no maintenance, lack of or bad advice or people not understanding what they are working with

ANdrew Gilchrist

www.fastelectrics.com

[rcBPman]

laxmasta2039
your hull is going to have to be very small and light to reach 50mph with a .18. i havea speedmaster hull that hasa .21 in it and it does 50 to 60mph. and that is costing me $700. For a $400 boat to do 50 is hard to believe. there are not even that many powerfull .18 engines out on the maket. the most i think you would ever get out of a .18 would be 35-40. maby alittle over 40 depeneding on water conditions.
What type of hull are you making?? and how large?
Good luck with it.