Team Associated B4 buggy forum v1.0

[jesse cunningha]

who knows maby the b3 will be beter then the b4 on some tracks
dont give up on the b3 untill you new b4 will beat it.
i hope it has cup holders.

[TUCRACEMAN]

Id use my B3, but it has seemed to have vanished into thin air. Argh, but I can't wait till that B4 come out. Man, that is one nice car.

[imanonymous]

the first thing i thought when i looked at those pics was: LOSI!
that thing looks SO MUCH like my losi truck. It still looks awesome though.

[nicototo]

Hi Buff

Thank U for replying!!
I currently run a "Schumacher EVO" but I don't like it!
The double chassis ( can I call it like this?) is not practical and the rest of the parts are really bad built, with too much game!! :(
Spare parts are also expensive and this car is too breakable because it is made with a lot of defects in its parts!!
That's why I'm looking for an American kit !!:D
I think I will follow your advise and wait until the B4 comes out!
I prefer having a durable transmission and diff !!!;)
This means that I'm probably not going to buy a XXX KE!!;)

Thank you Buff and have fun on the tracks!!:) :)
Ciao!
Nicototo

[nicototo]

Concerning the Factory team version, I would rather prefer waiting until this version comes out than buying hop-ups separately!:D

[xxxkat]

One thing to think about,Who won the IFMAR worlds?And the Team Associated drivers WERE using the B-4,Im thinking no better no worse,But Im getting one,because it shure looks trick,and alot of cool features.I also like that I can use my "old" rims & tires from my xxxkw,And a good driver with a b-3 can still win.

[WheelNut]

Actually they were not using the B4. They were using modified B3's.

A better driver will won which is why Brain Kinwald and Matt Francis always win.

[DENTEC36]

Yep! Matt could have been running any competitive car and still would have won!

[Buff]

nicototo....you're right....American cars are the way to go! Not to take any credit away from Schumacher for always going out on a limb to try and build a competitive car. But, they just can't seem to find the right setup, geometry, materials, AND big name drivers to help them out. It seem any more, you have to spend a little money and get some really good drivers to do the R & D to develop a good product.

However, your idea of waiting on the Factory version of the B4 may not be a good idea....I'm just not sure exactly how long it will be before they come out with this version of the buggy just yet. The original production standard kits aren't even finished yet, and I'm sure, in a business sense, that they will want to get all the Standard/Team kits sold as much as they can before bringing out a newer more hopped up version....again, as they are a business, companies need/want to make money off of aftermarket parts such as the Factory Team stuff......which in my opinion, relates to the fact that I was saying it may be a while before they release a fully loaded Factory B4. Make sense? If I were you, I would go ahead and buy the Team version which will be out soon, so you can get to racing with it. You'll be left behind if you wait too long for the FT version :( .........aren't you too anxious to wait any longer? I know I am! Let me re-itterate(spelling?) that the B4 will most likely not need much hopping up to begin with.....and my guess is, that the B4 will have plenty of strength in the plastic/composite chassis and suspension which means that the carbon fiber may not be an absolute legitimate reason, if at all necessary (especially on local level racing) to wait for the FTB4.

Then again, it's your choice to wait for the FTB4....I just know that most people I know aren't going to wait....they're going to go right to the hobby shop and pick up whatever version of the B4 is out, and clean out their shelves! Don't get left behind man!

[Buff]

xxxkat....not to knock what you said, but why does it matter who won the world championships?? Put it this way....Losi has the current world championship now......and the previous one. AE/Reedy has how many world championships?? I'm not even quite sure of the number exactly anymore as I have lost track at 17.....Most of the previous world's were won by AE, and by one person (MOSTLY...although Kyosho is a previous winner and some others). We all know who I'm talking about....Masami. This guy has more world championship belts than any other r/c company COMBINED. But does that necessarily mean that if Masami was running a Losi car, that he wouldn't/couldn't win another worlds? Of course not. Just goes to show that the driver really has more to do with it than the car...especially on that level. Matt Francis has been on a huge roll the last few years, which explains why he has his world championships too.

[psycho02]

Yep! and masami even won his first world championship with a schumacher. Its like I always say drivers win races not cars.

[LEADFOOT]

...make money off of aftermarket parts such as the Factory Team stuff


Money making is the only reason to make "Factory Team" stuff. Look at this (http://www.team-orion.ch/global/global_news.asp?id=1292) car used at the World's by the AE drivers. Nowhere on it, save maybe the front axles and various fasteners (okay, and the titanium turnbuckles), is there any "blue stuff". It's all just eye candy.

[Hobbytown Racer]

I'm not waiting for a FT car. I'll get the team version and go from there. I just want to run the car. Doesn't have to look good...... well maybe. :D

[Buff]

psycho02....got a question for ya....I can't seem to remember Masami running a Schumacher.....in what class did he win the world championships?? I thought he won his first world championship running offroad with the original RC10? Here's how I remember some past World Championships as far as Associated goes...

1977....in Pomona Cali...Butch Kroells (still around?) with an 1/8 scale onroad gas i think it was?

1982.....in Anaheim....Kent Clausen (also still around?) onroad

1984.....Denmark....Tony Neisinger....1/12th scale onroad

1985.....Del Mar......Jay Halsey.....1/10th scale offroad buggy (the first original RC10!!!)

1986....Las Vegas Nevada.....Tony Neisinger....1/12th scale onroad again

1987.....Pomona Cali.....Re-Pete Fusco.....gas onroad i think?

1988.....Holland.....Masami Hirosaka (his first World Championship??).....was either 1/10th scale or 1/12th scale electric onroad

1989.....Australia.....Again, Masami Hirosaka making his first World Championship in offroad....(with a prototype RC10--with longer arms, new stealth tranny and graphite chassis...and was never released)

1990.....Singapore.....Chris Doseck....1/10th scale or 1/12th scale electric onroad....(his first and only WC)....man can this guy drive the wheels off of ANY onroad car!

1991.....Detroit, Michigan.....Masami Hirosaka.......again making a debut with yet another prototype "Stealth" RC10 that was not released into production.....MANY MANY people say that this very car was a huge inspiration to the current design of the B4 (including Cliff Lett)....this car was the very first to have it's front shocks mounted BEHIND the shock tower.....and man did this car have some LONG arms!! However, this car was THA BOMB on rough tracks...

1992.....Grand Rapids, Michigan.....again, Tony Neisinger....running a 1/12th scale electric to yet his 3rd WC.

1993.....England....Brian Kinwald shocks the world with his "Worlds Edition" RC10....new hard anodized teflon coated shocks, stealth tranny, new longer arms etc......this car was a HUGE success in the local r/c world. I tell you this car could corner on a smooth track like no other....and you couldn't "purposely hack" this car out of the way very easily because of it's distinct heavy (like an anvil...), although planted weight (still one of my favorite cars ever...)

1995.....Japan.....Matt Francis.....with finally a completely new design from the ground up RC10..."B2". All new suspension, first lightweight molded composite chassis for AE, new transmission ratio, lowered batteries, more adjustments and technology went into this car than compared to the previous "Worlds Edition" aluminum tub chassis car that won in 93'....

1997.....Masami Hirosaka once again!.....with yet another revised RC10 (called the B3 of course) still based on the B2.....basically a B2 with refinements.

Ok, well, I could go on for days, but enough with the history lesson....my fingers are tired....along with my brain...I think I sprained it....

:p :D

[Buff]

Oh yeah, and I know I'm missing some 4 wheel drive buggies that won some WC's....among other classes ranging past the year 97'.

[psycho02]

I would have to go down to the vault and look it up again, but I believe it was either the 87 off-road electric or 89 off-road electric worlds he was driving a schumacher 4 wheel drive buggy which he used to win his first ever off-road worlds. In fact I believe the story goes that schumacher hooked him up and built the cars at the race for him. Then Associated and yokomo snatched him up and the rest is history.

[psycho02]

pretty sure it was the 87 worlds he won 4 wheel for schumacher. Schumacher was the first company to sponsor Master Masami before yokomo and associated got smart.

[Buff]

psycho.....I can't remember the 87' offroad Worlds....my memory seems to tell me though that a Kyosho Ultima Joel Johnson was driving won(??). Is this correct? I can't remember quite as clear, but something tells me that's what happened in 2 wheel buggy. For some reason, I keep seeing (in my head...imagine that!) something in an old R/C Car Action magazine with a two page advertisement including a picture of Joel Johnson smiling, holding a Kyosho Ultima saying he was the current World Champion. Does this sound right??

Maybe from what you were saying, that this was the year Masami was discovered driving his Schuey. Then in 89', he had gotten on with AE and won his first offroad 2 wheel drive World Championship with the prototype RC10.....the one that looks so much like the current B4. Does this sound right?

[psycho02]

You are correct buff in 87 joel johnson won 2 wheel drive driving a kyosho ultima which was basicaly the beginning of trinity going big time provetti "mortgaged the farm" so to speak to get joel there and hope that he had a good showing then provetti hooked up with the kyosho guys who were hooked up with epic and ther you go voila trinity is formed. On the other side was this unknown japanese kid named masami hirosaka who recieved schumacher "sponsorship" at the actual worlds race. He won 4 wheel in a runaway to begin his brilliant career. He even entertained everybody in attendance by driving a few laps with his feet. And yep even with his feet, he is better than we are.

but anyways that is the 1987 worlds in short form you are right about 2 wheel and now you have the story about 4 wheel.

[Buff]

Yeah, I do remember seeing him in a pic driving with his feet in RCCA magazine from the coverage of that race......this was way back when I was in high school and lived with my parents....a couple years later, we moved, and they made me throw away ALL my old RCCA magazines!! Some of those would be worth some good reading and memories if I were able to keep them. I had some all the way back to 86-87' up to about 91' or 92'.....that's when the stack I have now continues from. I've seen Masami in person drive with his feet and he IS pretty good...better than most average racers.....but he better drive with his hands if he would want to race ME! :p :D .....of course then, he'd wax my a$$.....;) :D

[RichieRich]

Hey guys - about Joel Johnson winning the '87 worlds. That's when I purchased my Turbo Ultima. I was so impressed that I had to have an Ultima. I also bought the "Trinity Silver Dot Modified" racing motor which I think was the same wind that he used to win the race. Ah, youth, so young and impressionable. I still have the motor and I just recently finished restoring the Turbo Ultima (http://www.mindspring.com/~christianeelin/rccars/tu01.jpg).

[Hobbytown Racer]

Nice car Richie. I think it would be cool to have a vintage class ran at the nationals. Just as a exibition class for fun.

[JasonD]

Someone at CRCRC today said that a Hobby Shop in Toledo, OH will have the B4 in two weeks. (and I assume he meant other shops as well) I immediately believed this to be a rumor, but to be safe, I thought I would ask if anyone hear has heard the same thing?

[psycho02]

nope I hav'nt heard anything but i can hope.

[Hobbytown Racer]

AE has a photo on there site that shows a side view. Man that thing is slammed. I can't wait to laydown the smack, errr... I mean, lay it on the track. Reedy Ti 10x2, Quantum comp, some GP 3300's and a sweet track and the thing should rippppp.


her's a link to the site were the ROAR modified national's will be held for 2003. www.tiltyard.com

I've raced there many times. Homer can build a track like no other.

[Hobbytown Racer]

I'll give you an idea what he has in mind. Go to the link and click on photos, go to part 2 on track pics. The double in front of the driverstand will be close to twice as big. You should be able to see your car close to eye level!!!!!!! Plus a ton more "new" things that will test some of the best, on the track. All that and the cars land with little bottoming out. Bookmark that site and you'll see the progress with the new layout.


Not only does he have the ROAR mod nat's, he has one of 3 R/C Pro Series races, that qualify you for the R/C Pro Series National's. www.rcproseries.com

[nicototo]

Hi BUFF!!

I think you're right, I already can't wait for the B4 to come out!!
The team version will be a good choice and I have already Titanium turnbuckles on my Fireblade EVO that I could use on the B4.
It would also cost less to buy the team version and so I will have some money left to buy a Corally SP12M.
I'm like most of people here, I can't wait for the B4 to come out and I hope there will be one car left for me!! ;)

I just have a question:
What kind of materiel is used on the team version( for the chassis the wishbones ...), is it graphite or a composite material?

Thank's
Bye bye

[Tstalion79]

I just got off the phone with kyosho/hobbico and they said that it will definately be out by christmas. This might be old news; sorry if it is.:rolleyes:

[Hobbytown Racer]

nicototo, AE uses a composite material in the "team" kits. Should have the teflon shocks,bearings and some other stuff.

[TUCRACEMAN]

Originally posted by Tstalion79
I just got off the phone with kyosho/hobbico and they said that it will definately be out by christmas. This might be old news; sorry if it is.:rolleyes:


Think you got the wrong forum there buddy...;)


Anyway. I was thinking, with the dual disc slipper, would the B4's transmission have a different top shaft than the rest of the stealth trannys?
~Dave

[psycho02]

yep the shaft is longer.

[Hobbytown Racer]

After looking at the pics, it really shouldn't be much longer. Everything on the car looks to be production ready.

[TUCRACEMAN]

That's what I was thinking HR. It dosen't seem to me that a dual disc slipper would give the need for a longer shaft. But, I am not a designer.

[psycho02]

yep it is just slightly longer. Look at some pictures of recent races. In rc car where they covered the hot rod shootout race. You can see where the associated guys do not have the access plug on their gear covers and you can see the adjustment nut sticking out. I think it will end up being alot like the losi shaft and spring setup and it is probably the one big thing that the associated guys did "borrow" from the losi.

[DENTEC36]

This is a responce to the previous page, Glad to see I'm not the only "oldie" that remebers the races in the early day's,,, LONGER SHAFT!!!!! Iwas going to put my Ti shaft in the B4 !!!! 'O'-MAN!!! another $20.00//////LOL

[Hobbytown Racer]

I have 2 top shafts for the T2 that were for the hydra-drives. :D

[Kdonks]

Any new news about the B4? Release date perhaps?

[Buff]

nictoto.....yeah, the B4 Team version will use standard composite materials in the chassis, suspension etc.....the cvd's will be steele like the stock ones on the B3 also. More than likely the Factory version will have full carbon fiber, titanium, etc...

Tstalion.....sorry, but it is old news.....I talked to Cliff a few days ago, and the word is about the middle of January. They had a few minor problems with the tooling of some parts, and had to make a few adjustments. You have to appreciate their attention to detail and making sure the car will be right.

TUCRACEMAN.....Yes, the B4's topshaft will be longer/different from the topshaft that's being currently used.....obviously to support the new wider dual slipper that is yes similar to Losi's, however Cliff re-assured me that his design is even refined and improved over Losi's. I think if I remember right, he said that Losi guys would be able to use AE spurs....

Dentec.....sorry bout your luck with the titanium topshaft you have, but they won't fit. I'm sure that several aftermarket companies will want to make their own aluminum/titanium topshaft for the B4 though......among other parts.

Hobbytown Racer.....Yeah, I still have one of those too! I still love the hydra-drive on outdoor slick tracks, and break it out every once in a while. AE even made a hydra-drive gear cover for the conversion.....I have a bunch of those too....:p :D

Kdonks.....well, like I said, looks about middle of January....the anticipation grows.....;) :cool: :D

[saabcaptain]

As an owner of a MFE XXX-T but in general a neophyte RC car driver I have some STUPID, STUPID questions if you can answer for me as I am looking to get a 2WD buggy...

1. In terms of DESIGN what is the difference between the current model FT B3 and the XXX-KE? To the naked eye of course they are quite similar.

2. In terms of DESIGN how is the upcoming B4 more similar to the XXX as some have stated?

3. In terms of DESIGN how is the B4 considered to be more modern or advanced than the XXX?

4. In terms of handling and racing how different is 2WD buggy vs. 2WD stadium truck something I am fimilar with.

As someone with hopeless driving skills I do appeciate having the latest and greatest (my only claim to fame) and I am trying to decide between getting a XXX-KE with all the bells and whistles or waiting and getting a B4 and having to upgrade it over time to match their FT kits which of course won't be out for sometime with the new B4. Also I assume we all believe this will be the "newest" 2WD buggy for sometime when it is released because no XXXX is in the near future is it?

Thanks so much! :D

[Tstalion79]

The xxx and b4 are not nearly as similar as many say. They look pretty much the same, but the tranny, suspension, etc are all different.

[pudder]

In your first question, you said "1. In terms of DESIGN what is the difference between the current model FT B3 and the XXX-KE? To the naked eye of course they are quite similar."

If you look at the two, they are a LOT different to the naked eye. :)

[Buff]

saabcaptain....I'll try to help as much as I can.....

1. I could understand to the naked eye at about 100 yards how they could look similar....however, up close they're really VERY dissimilar (not alike). For example, just check out your MF edition Losi truck, then take a look at some pix of the B4 on the net. Check out the front end on the B4.....look similar to the XXX? I wouldn't think it does. The B4's front shocks are mounted BEHIND the shock tower. Chassis shapes are different, chassis bridging and stiffening bosses are much different, shocks are very different, steering components are very different, the transmission is very different now because it's a new lower laydown 2.6:1 as opposed to the B3 and XXX 2.4:1 ratio. I could go on, but just take a long closer look for yourself.

2. There are some similarities between the XXX and B4, however, not as many as it seems. The B4's wheels are now more inset as the Losi's are.....the B4's chassis is now at maximum length and width, and the wing mounts the same way......and some may say that the motor plate guard is similar to the XXX.

3. The entire front suspension is really different from the XXX....as the front arms are swept forward instead of back now as previous buggies have been. This allows the front tires to stay in contact with the ground in case the car nose dives over a jump, instead of the nose digging in, causing you to lose precious time (Cliff really is a genius....:D) Two sets of steering blocks are going to be available for more track tunability (both inline axles AND offset)....and with that, comes even wheel base adjustment in the FRONT arms where the caster block sits in the outside of the arms. Roll center is not only adjustable in the front via upright camber ball studs, but ALSO in the rear bulkhead as well, again for more fine tuning. The rear arms are also "bent" at the outside to further lower the center of gravity (which was one of the main goals in the design of the B4) Again, I could go on forever...

4. In terms of racing a buggy compared to a truck which you drive now.....well, I'm not going to lie. Buggies are MUCH more of a handful than trucks. Buggies are quicker through the corners and more reactive, however they are harder to control because of this. They're not as stable as trucks because their suspension is only half as wide, and the tires are half as big. Buggies will very much teach you how to slow down and control your throttle unlike trucks which you can peg much more around the track. If you run buggy for a while, then go back to truck, your truck racing will be much improved. Buggies teach you patience, throttle control, and even react more sensitive to suspension setup changes. They take the "lazyness" out of the equation compared to trucks.

Waiting for a Factory Team version will be unnecessary as the Team version will be just as competitive. The only thing I would recommend for the Team version might be titanium tie rods....other than that, you won't go any faster with a Factory kit. Sure it's nice to have all the latest trick goodies, but it still boils down to practice, track time, car setup, and a good driver.

[saabcaptain]

Thanks Buff, very good answers... but they make me want to ask more questions! :p

1. What is the idea behind putting the shock mounts behind the front shock tower as opposed to the common front mount location?

2. Why does TA still use collared shocks vs. the threaded design of Losi? Other than the ease of use factor I feel makes the Losi so nice what is the primary differences between the shocks on a TA vs. a Losi?

3. Have buggy bodies been ever made in a graphite? Looking at the FT B3 I see the body remains composite just like every other version of the kit, while in stadium trucks and touring cars it seems the high end is always a composite body. Point being of course if I buy the Team kit from TA for the B4 will I someday be looking at a step up to a graphite body etc.?

4. How does the Team kit differ from the lower kit? Do TA Team kits have graphite arms, towers etc? Do TA Team kits come out at the same time as the general kits release?

5. Many talk of the Stealth transmission as "bullet" proof vs. a Losi. I had the pleasure of building a FT T3 (but sold it before running it very much and now have a MFE XXX-T) and the transmissions seemed very similar in design with the same basic parts... what makes the TA diffs so much better? How is the new ratio in the B4 going to make it even better?

6. Does lowering the CG hurt ground clearance for heavily rutted sections of the track... the photos of the B4 sure look cool with it being so low but it makes me wonder how it will handle tracks that aren't smooth blue-groove with well setup jumps.

7. I hear the term "proper Akerman geometry" being thrown around in regards to the forward swept front arms... what is Akerman setup?

Thanks so much everyone, I know this is a tremendous amount of questions feel free to answer all, some or none... :D

[pudder]

"3. Have buggy bodies been ever made in a graphite? Looking at the FT B3 I see the body remains composite just like every other version of the kit, while in stadium trucks and touring cars it seems the high end is always a composite body. Point being of course if I buy the Team kit from TA for the B4 will I someday be looking at a step up to a graphite body etc.?"

By BODY, do you mean CHASSIS? Bodies are made of lexan, chassis are made of many different things like aluminum, graphite, nylon composite... :)

In different versions of TA vehicles the chassis are either composite or graphite, as with Losi. By the way, the FT B3 does have a graphite chassis, just like the T3 counterpart.

As Buff said in a previous post, the FT B4 will come with graphite parts like the TA 3's. :)

[Buff]

What tha hell......:D ....here goes...

1. I believe the answer to that one is pretty easy. AE went for lowering the center of gravity on this car in every way possible. By placing the shocks behind the tower, this further lowers the shocks weight lower into the chassis.....hence lowering some CG. Every little bit counts as it seems Cliff hasn't seemed to have missed anything behind the design of the B4. To explain how they are lowered......the front nose of the car has a kickup of 30 degrees upward right? well, if you look at the side of a buggy, and picture them in your mind that they are placed further back such as the new B4's, you'll see that it essentially "lowers" them down into the chassis.....which thus lowers your CG.

2. I think AE's collars/preload clips have seemed to work out just fine for them. The clips have their advantages over threaded bodies too. With preload clips (which come in all "3" series kits) you know that spring adjustments are precise to each other because you use the same amount of clips on each set of shocks (front and rear). With threaded shocks, you have to measure with calipers or some kind of measuring tool to make sure each side is equal. Not to mention, AE is now making threaded shock bodies as an option anywayz. They will more than likely come in all Factory Team kits in the future also.

[Buff]

3. I'm kind of confused as to what you're trying to figure out or ask. You're referring to "bodies" I assume as being the chassis. Like pudder said, the BODIES are the lexan that covers the chassis. Anywayz, all kits come in standard composite material, while all Factory Team kits come with full carbon fiber. If you buy a Team kit, it will be all composite. Carbon fiber is not absolutely needed to be competitive. From the sounds of it, I would assume you might be new to the sport? If not, I apologize. What I mean is, that if you are fairly new to racing, then you won't notice the difference at all between the two materials. The B3 actually drives better with a composite chassis and carbon fiber suspension parts. The carbon fiber chassis actually makes the car too stiff and unforgiving. Many of the team drivers, including myself, don't use the carbon fiber chassis on the B3. Now, how the B4 will react having a carbon fiber chassis......I don't know. We all won't know until further experience with the B4 is achieved.

4. The "sport" version of the AE line of offroad cars as opposed to Team kits, comes with gold anodized shocks instead of teflon coated shocks, dogbone driveshafts w/ halfshafts instead of CVD's, bronze bushings throughout instead of ball bearings, and I think they come with even a different body, and the tires/wheels may be a little different whereas the Team kit comes with wide wheels and better racing type tires. I think the sport version also comes with a mechanical type speed control and some type of stock motor.

[Buff]

Ok, I'm really enjoying this! LOL......:D

5. AE's stealth trannies have always set a benchmark for everybody else to follow in this category. They've always built the best trannies. It's simple, easy to assemble, has very few parts, it's VERY efficient, and maintenance free, and it works like a Timex watch..."takes a licking, keeps on ticking". The reason the new B4 diff ratio is changed from 2.4:1 from 2.6:1, is because this allows you to set the diff at a looser setting without the risk of it slipping under heavier loads/torque. There's more diff ring surface which can carry this load much better like the GT truck, which this idea was carried from. The diff will be even smoother, for a longer period of time, cutting maintenance down even further! Not to mention that the car will absolutely LAUNCH out of the hole much harder!! This will help on high bite grippy tracks. For whatever reason, Losi has usually been one step behind in this category, and is usually not able to match the AE's tranny.

6. No, the lower CG will not affect the B4's ride height as this was incorporated in it's design. The pics you see of the B4 have some different springs which are softer than standard springs and they were set to give the car a "slammed" look in the pics. There's nothing uglier than a picture of a jacked up car without a battery pack in it! Makes it look "Tyco'ish"....

7. Ackerman is referred to the front tires angle/toe as the suspension is compressed. AE is referring to the design of the B4 as having "correct ackerman" angles at all different adjustments. This is vital to the consistency of the car's handling while cornering. They're saying that this will not be altered no matter what suspension change is made....which is good. I'm sure someone else could give a better explanation of exactly what ackerman is, but that's about the best I can do. Just trust me, if AE has anything to do with it, you know it's going to be right.

Ok, my fingers are really tired now.....hope all this helps...good luck!
:p :D :p :D

[saabcaptain]

Again thanks Buff and everyone for the detailed answers. I AM new to the hobby and find my favorite part is the wrenching and understanding the design concepts behind the vehicle to the point I don't get enough time on the track. :)

By body I was absolutely referring to the chassis so I stand corrected. I saw some material on the TA website that stated the graphite parts of the Factory Team B3 and it stated the chassis was COMPOSITE and then showed a list of a few graphite parts (such as the towers etc.) that came with. I didn't know that was inaccurate and the FT B3 had a graphite based chassis.

In all reality I love this hobby in a different way then most as the rc car itself is my favorite part, hence why I geek out on owning something like a MFE XXX-T even though someone with 1980's vintage radio shack car could likely whip me on my local track. That said I am improving and as you can tell interested in expanding my list of cars to something beyond my truck if only to have something new to goof around with.

I promise Buff, ONLY one more question... Considering the B4 will likely arrive in mid-Jan 2003, do most TA folks believe a FT version will follow late in 2003, or does TA usually wait more than a year for their FT version to arrive.

[Buff]

Yes......Most likely a Factory Team version will be available, but when that is....I don't know. Not even the guys at the factory know. They're still trying to finish up the Team version now for shipment. They are also trying to get the Monster GT ready in addition. But, late 2003 is probably a decent guess as far as a FT B4 is concerned.

Glad to help....I have just as much fun helping as I do wrenching/racing.:cool: :D

[Railman]

Ackerman has to do with the making the inside wheel turn sharper than the outside wheel, so as to compensate for the different turning radius of each. The inside wheel has a smaller turning radius than the outside wheel.
Bump steer refers to the steering angle changing as the supension is compressed. For the most nuetral, & forgiving handling, you want zero bump steer. Some people like to add alittle to make a car more agressive in the turns though.
Joe

[xxxkat]

The question I had is the b-4 going to that much faster than the b-3,And if the b-4 is that great how come it did not win the worlds?I think the xxx won.I do plan on buying a b-4 as soon as they are for sale. :)Railman what RR you work for?

[AussieSam]

Hi,

The B4 will only go as fast as the driver, put it this way if most of us raced a XXX or b4 against Brian Kinwald or Matt Francis driving a B3 or even a B2 who do you bet would win 9 out of ten times. My next point Matt Griffin won the Australian champioships with his B3, thats right a B3 not a Losi. Last but not least they used the prototype B3X at the worlds not the B4.

Regards,

Sam.

[xxxkat]

From what I understand B3X,fancy way of saying B-4 proto-type.And you are so right its all about the driver.But its still so cool to have the "new" car.;)

[saabcaptain]

The B3X had a B3 chassis with B4 prototype suspension. It was *not* a full up B4 model and has *significant* differences. No one has ever run a prototype B4 in a public race as far as I know... yet.

Also... the best drivers will win driving any modern car, MF and BK win because they are the best, not because the Losi is so much better and I believe they certainly would also win with TA B3 or B4 if they drove them.

That said I honestly do believe that the differences between cars CAN make a difference for club-level racers. Some cars are just *easier* to drive well for people who can't spend hours and hours getting used to the car. Examples? Well most say the XXX-S and the TC3 are equal as can be when in the hands of the pros and for the most part race results bare that out, but clearly most agree the TC3 is easier and less twitchy to drive... for someone like me who isn't the greatest driver, nor has the time to become one I might do much better with the TC3. The opposite seems true with the *current* generation of stadium trucks and 2WD buggies. Most feel the XXX-T corners and jumps smoother than the T3 with the same being true of the XXX vs. B3 to a lesser extent. Does that mean the T3 or B3 is a worse design? Well maybe the extra twitch allows them to be even MORE effective in the hands of a great driver, but again at the club level...

The ultimate goal IMHO is to create a RC car that is docile in the hands of a novice but sacrafices nothing in the hands of a pro driver. That is easier said then done and hopefully each generation of Losi, TA, and other companies vehicles take us closer to the ideal...

[xxxkat]

They have been seen racing at so.cal.:)

[saabcaptain]

And what if anything has come from the seeing them at So Cal? Breakage problems? Leading the pack? Easy to maintain?

[Buff]

I fully agree with what Saabcaptain said.....for one simple reason....it's true!.....oh, it's damn true!!

Railman...you better explained it than I did....I thought there was someone out there that could word it better than I could.:D

And no, it's not ALL completely driver. The car plays a pretty large part too. If it didn't, then Traxxas, Kyosho and others would still be competing on the same level as AE and Losi (even though some companies have made valient efforts....only to design a car that's a direct clone to other already successful cars.....Kyosho-B3....Duratrax Evader-DoubleXX-CR). It seems though, that only AE and Losi have been able to keep on top of the r & d to design such great offroad racing cars because apparently there's only very specific designs that will work, and these two companies have always managed to find them.

[xxxkat]

The guys that are racing them are team drivers & way fast,and they dont break them.They wont let you near them.

[mtn bkr]

It'll definitely be interesting to see how the B4 performs. One problem I hope they alleviate is the tendency of the B3 and T3 to want to spin out or get squirrely if you bottom it out. When I used to race a XXX, it was definitely more tolerable of botched landings. I now have a dilemma on my hands, do I sell my FT B3 now or wait and see how the B4 performs first? Decisions, decisions...

[Poolboy51]

Does anyone know of a possible release date for this and maybe even one for the T4? Im not sure if I should buy a T3 if this will come out right after I buy it. Thanks

[Hobbytown Racer]

I heard Feb. but who knows??!!! I just hope it's soon.... I'm jonezin... :D

[pudder]

If you can hold out that long, wait for the T4. If not, get the T3, it is a great truck. :)

[TUCRACEMAN]

Aww come on Buff. The Kyosho Ultima is not that much of a clone of the B3. Well, okay...kinda. Not as beefy as the B3 and for some reason I would say that the Ultima is faster for me. Once you get the hang of the Ultima it is SMOOOOOOOOTH. I also like the shocks on the Ultima more than the AE's shocks.
~Dave

[aspiringrcracer710]

Any new word on the release date of the B4?

[saabcaptain]

Those closest to AE continue to say mid-Jan. They had aimed it a little sooner orginally but had some tooling problems but mid-Jan looks good for now...

[pudder]

Atleast they take the time to make sure the final quality will be good.

I have to admire AE for this since if they rushed it they could probably have the buggy out now, but they seem to keep quality in mind and customer satisfaction. :)

[aspiringrcracer710]

Yeah, they delayed the TC3's release back when it came out and now it is quite the good seller. Not to mention its winning everywhere

[JasonD]

I wonder if Losi wishes they would have delayed the XXX4's release date. They seem to be breaking everywhere.

[TUCRACEMAN]

Umm, Buff? Where are you man?
~Dave

[MagicD]

I need new info....something, ANYTHING! I'm dying here...

My current car (a 10 year old RC10 Championship Edition) is nearing a point where I am going to need to sink a decent amount of money into it to keep it running but I'd rather skip doing that for now and just get myself a new ride. I sure hope that mid-January release date sticks...

Happy Racing!

[DLF]

Well, I just got an Associated newslettter that says they've set the Monster GT truch release for spring 2003. That's surprising since I had figured it and the B4 would be out about the same time.

[skip wagner]

I heard the B4 will be out before the Monster GT. I hope the rumors of February are true!

[jnegrx]

I think the B4 is a good 4-6 months out. I thought that the monster was going to be ready for christmas but now its spring. AE always waits until the car (B4) is better than the previous one. I don't care how long it takes to come out, i want one. AE just wants to come out with a great car. At least we will be sure that the design won't be changed every 4-6 months like "others".

[pudder]

Atleast we can be sure they will come out with one kickass car!

[momosport]

It will be exciting to see how the B4 does in competiton in the coming year. With the likes of Pavidis, Masami, Easton, and Baker? Will Barry Baker be running offroad 2wd buggy, or is he a 4wd only?

I look foreward to getting a B4, too bad i have a TON of b3 parts yet.



MOmo

[Clod_Killer]

My B3 does me just fine. I also have lots of parts for it, and its not holding me back in any way. I don't plan on picking up a B4 for a long time, if ever. I think its fugly, but thats just me. Maybe I will skip the B4 and hope the B5 looks better. :rolleyes:

[TUCRACEMAN]

Hmmm, never thought of a RC car as a fashion statement. :rolleyes:
~Dave

[MagicD]

Does anyone else think it's a little too quiet in the news and rumors department for a car that's supposed to ship in 2 or 3 weeks? Where'd all the "insider" info guys (Buff?) run off to? Just about every day I scour the internet trying to find any new tidbit of info about the release of the B4, but I always come up empty handed...

And to add to the discussion, I think the Buggy is visually beautiful! The reversed shock mounting position brings back fond memories of the late 80's early 90's Stealth Car that I ALWAYS wanted.

[skip wagner]

I heard that Associated is targeting a late February release. If that is true, then we should see the hype return in mid-Jan.

I'm sure they'll post on their site once the first B4 hits the track for pre-production testing.

[NV529]

i was going nutz about hearing this thing was "coming out in mid jan." but now I'm more then less thinking this buggy will be out near summer. which is ok too! its better to get all the bugs out now then me having one that brakes every race and me ending up selling it for next to nothing..

[JasonD]

NV529: Like the XXX-4???

Trade Mags state "Spring 2003" for the release of the B4. March or April hopefully!!!!!

Since my club's season ends late May, I'll probably just wait until next season to buy one 09/2003. It has got to be out by then.

[Mystracing]

Our season starts in March outdoors and I'm going to be getting real nervouse if it isn't out in mid Feb, being as I sold my old car in anticipation of having a new one this spring. I would also have to agree that I wan't it too be rite before they release it, but this anticipation is tough to deal with. At least I still have both trucks. I want one now though!

[mtn bkr]

I did the same thing and sold my FT B3 in anticipation of the B4's release. I really hope it comes out fairly soon, as I don't enjoy racing trucks as much as I do buggies. I did notice that one on-line hobby shop now has a part number listed for the B4. Don't know if that means anything or not, but it's a start.

[MagicD]

mtn bkr which shop has the B4 part number listed? URL? Thanks.

[mtn bkr]

It was Stormer Hobbies. The last time I asked the owner of the track I race at (he races for Associated), he said that they're still aiming for a mid-January release. I sure hope it's not too long.

[skip wagner]

http://www.rc10.com/images/wallpaper/wpb4_hangar.jpg

It's here!

[pudder]

Any other new pics of the B4 besides that sexy, sexy background?

[mike_Webb]

Is it me or does the Rear Wing look totally F'ed up?

The Left side has the side dam going lower then the bottom part of the wing. The Right side has the Side Dam like normal? It looks like the Rear wing is almost fake or pasted into the picture. The Wing mount on the left even looks fuzzy... maybe my eyes are just screwed up. Body looks good. Lets hope that it is in the stores by the end of February!!!

[MagicD]

OOOOO BABY! If I'm not mistaken, that's the first image of the B4 with it's body on. Looks tight! Can't wait to see it in a different angle.

Hey mtn biker, how long ago did you speak with your track owner? Anything that even resembles release date info is music to my ears.

[pudder]

I crapily edited the picture so you can sort of see the buggy a bit better...

[banditwing]

That looks soo awsome. Cool logo too. But is that PHILLIPS heads screws i see there on the shock mounts???? Uh oh, thats not good.....


And man, that thing looks like it's gonna kill at the track!

[StevePond]

Here's a slighty cleaner view of the latest pic...

[pudder]

Thanks Steve, I just did mine in about 30 seconds. :)

[StevePond]

I did mine in about 3 seconds... ;) :cool:

[pudder]

Darn, beat again! :o

[drumr racer]

**** As I drool, looking at the picture, thinking in my mind. """"I'm getting one of those..."""""!!!!!!!!****

:eek: Ohh sorry I was daydreaming
thanks for the pic Skip Wagner, Pudder, Steve P

These things are gonna rock, just look how low the body, and wing are. the FRONT shock towers are almost as high as the body!! I bet ROAR got a really hard hit to the stomach for that one :D

Let's hope this thing isn't goin' to be as brittle as the XXX-4;)

[mike_Webb]

Steve-

Can you pump them for any information as to when it may be available? Some of us have to make a decision soon and I would hate to get the XXX and have the B4 come out 2 weeks later.

[RichieRich]

Hassan like!!!

[TUCRACEMAN]

Originally posted by RichieRich
Hassan like!!!
LOL!!!!

[pudder]

I don't get it...


If any of you get the Team Associated Insiders Newsletter, you will know they will be getting some new pictures with the body out soon. They also said that one of the first kits released will be a Team kit. As well as that, they have a small picture on the homepage at www.rc10.com

[StevePond]

Originally posted by mike_Webb
Steve-

Can you pump them for any information as to when it may be available? Some of us have to make a decision soon and I would hate to get the XXX and have the B4 come out 2 weeks later.

It's coming soon. The end of February is a safe bet, but it may be earlier. This is Associated, so you never know if they're going to make a change between then and now, but their stuff is always well tested.

[drumr racer]

Muhahaha



I'm going to rock with this car

[kyle stallings]

saab are you nuts?

some people at socal have the b3X, it was ran at the worlds, shoot out and my other races its even ran all the time at socal raceway....

[aspiringrcracer710]

Steve, you think itll be out by the ROAR Offroad Nats? Also, when should we expect to see the first hop ups for it out onthe market

[mike_Webb]

what hop ups do you think you will need?

maybe Graphite stuff but I don't see a need for it really. I heard from a reliable source that it will come in with standard electronics right at the min weight. Other then that nothing is needed...unless you want the threaded shock bodies.

[pudder]

THey are first planning to release a Team model for one of the first cars. The Factory Team will probably come shortly after.

[DOHCrazy]

Im gona get the Factory team wheneva it comes out..cant wait untill then!!! im so anxious!!! does anyone have a target price or anything?

[RoachRacing]

I would bet the prices would be very close to the b3 team and and factory team prices. Plan for those and you should be fine.

[pudder]

I might have a price... ;)

[DOHCrazy]

might?

[MagicD]

Yeah what's this "might"? Do we have to beg? ;)

[pudder]

I said might... but the truth is I dont. I wish I could say I do, well I could, but the truth again is I dont. :( ;)

[RichieRich]

Stop yanking our chain pudder. I dare you to post anything with significant relevance. :D

[pudder]

Hey, I atleast said they have a new picture on the front of their site. :rolleyes:

[kyle stallings]

its gonna be about the same as a B3, low 200's

[TUCRACEMAN]

Originally posted by RichieRich
Stop yanking our chain pudder. I dare you to post anything with significant relevance. :D
ROTFL!!!
Did ya'll notice the little spacer on the front hub carrier? I'm guessing it's to change the wheelbase. I might be wrong, but it looks cool at least.

[mike_Webb]

From a good source:

we should have the first production car done either tomorrow or monday. After that we have to do a little testing to make sure everything jives correctly and then it's it a go. I would say - barring any problems - maybe a release of a couple more weeks???? Maybe....

[drumr racer]

Boo Yeah

When's it coming onto shelfs

[pudder]

Yay!

[StevePond]

Here's some new shots of the car that show better detail. Check 'em out...

http://www.rccaraction.com/pics/b4left1.jpg

http://www.rccaraction.com/pics/b4left2.jpg

http://www.rccaraction.com/pics/b4top.jpg

[pudder]

The pictures aren't working for me. :(

[StevePond]

Try Alt+F4


























j/k - try to refresh. I fixed it. :D

[pudder]

Ya, think I'm that stupid :rolleyes:

I like it, BUT, I wonder why they don't have a bottom shot of the car yet. :( I hope they make the rear chassis plate stronger than the Losi. I really wish they would have kept the aluminum rear chassis plate. :(

Steve, think you can get them to take a bottom chassis shot for your buddy Pudder? :D

BTW: you done the brain surgery yet? :p

[MagicD]

Wow! Looks awesome! Now all we need is a price, and more importantly, a RELEASE DATE! :D

Here's a new shot from AE's website:

http://www.rc10.com/shusting/CatalogHub/kitspecs_b4/B4top_chas600.jpg

[pudder]

There is only about two things I don't like about the new design...

-I wish they kept the rear aluminum chassis plate, that was kickass durability as well as a good heatsink.

-From the picture, it doesn't look at all like the placement of the battery is very adjustable at all. I only see one foam spacer. I really like on the B3 and T3 how you can ajust the battery so much, easy tuning.

Other than that it looks wicked cool to me. :)

[TheRealDudeman]

"Were not so different, You and I."
as quoted by Dr.Evil

(not saying its a losi copy)

[psycho02]

no it's not a "losi copy":rolleyes:

[TheRealDudeman]

im not saying it is im just tring to be funny

[pudder]

Well it's not working...:rolleyes:

[RichieRich]

Oh!! I like it. It looks very aggressive, like a praying mantis ready to strike. I can't wait. YAY!!

[mike_Webb]

Pudder- How can you tell that they got rid of the bottom aluminum rear plate?

[pudder]

I was informed of this already, I think on this very forum, I am not sure. :(

[kyle stallings]

its gonna be plastic

[mike_Webb]

hmmm... Well that kind of sucks I guess......Maybe that part could be a option unless the Chassis is all one piece instead of being a modular 3 piece design.

[MagicD]

To add to the discussion, here's a pic of the bottom of the prototype. I doubt they've changed it on the production buggy

http://home.att.net/~doug_gelowitz/chicago_hobby_show_2002/DCP01034.JPG

[banditwing]

I know I'm not an engineer or anything, but the rear shock tower looks a little weak to me. In a flip couldn't that easily break off? Why don't they have a brace maybe, like across the top of the shock tower, but still a hole for the body to rest on the body mount? Or is the shock tower strong enough already?

[pudder]

Hmm, it looks like the rear a-arm mounts are also molded in with the rear chassis plate too. :(

[TUCRACEMAN]

Originally posted by RichieRich
Oh!! I like it. It looks very aggressive, like a praying mantis ready to strike. I can't wait. YAY!!
Rich, I've been thinking about this...a long time. And I just don't see the resemblance. However, it is a great looking car. Much better then the XXX in the style department.
~Dave

[losixxx213]

I know I'm not an engineer or anything, but the rear shock tower looks a little weak to me. In a flip couldn't that easily break off? Why don't they have a brace maybe, like across the top of the shock tower, but still a hole for the body to rest on the body mount? Or is the shock tower strong enough already?


The wing mounts are the brace for the shocktower,they bolt to the shock tower and then bolt to part of the transmission.

[pudder]

I think the shock tower will be strong enough. I have never seen many shock towers break on anything before, and this AE so it will be really strong. :)

[Jaket]

gawd. . . All I can say is that the bottom of that looks baby butt smooth, wow.. I want one, I want one now! :D

-jlt

[RCPhan]

Hi all,

I am an old RCer from about 15 years ago! I was racing an RC10 back in the days when the Losi JRx2 first reared it's head. I am now in the process of getting back into the hobby and am trying to decide what car to buy! I was looking at the Schumacher fireblade until I saw the new B4! Wow what a car! To all those that say this is a Losi copy... all I have to say is... All Losi's are by definition a copy of RC10 or whomever came out with the very first compitition capable RC off-road buggy!

So... now that that's out of the way... can anyone give me some pros and cons of getting the Fireblade over the B4. I don't hear too much about Fireblades, so I am wanting to get a bit more info on them. One thing I am a bit leary about is that I emailed a Schumacher employee to ask them how capable the Fireblade was when put up against a B3 or XXX... the answer was... "It would be tough, but it could be done!" In other words, the Fireblade would be capable, but probably not likely! At least that's how I read it!

So my mind is tending towards the B4!

Any thoughts?

[Kdonks]

Lol @ tucraceman. Good one.

About the Schumacher. The car seems good and all but it may be hard to get parts. With an associated or a losi parts availability is really good.

[DOHCrazy]

Originally posted by pudder
I think the shock tower will be strong enough. I have never seen many shock towers break on anything before, and this AE so it will be really strong. :)

I broke mine on my B3... of course, it was kindof a freak accident.. i got hit in the air over a duoble and the other guys car kinda made me barrel roll so i landed upside down! lol:)

[pudder]

RCPhan-- I would get the B4 forsure. I have never even heard of that Shumacher, plus tracks and hobby shops usually carry plenty of parts for AE, and you can count on there to be lots of upgrades coming out...

[psycho02]

The schumacher fireblade evo 2 is a good car but you will probably have to spend more money on it to get it to where the b4 or the xxx will be right out of the box. What the shcumacher guy had probably meant when he emailed you back was the fact that the schuie is a serious drivers car, so to run that car you will have to be on your game all the time with driving and setup. I have driven it a little and it is more twitchey than a b3 so it would probably be hard to be as consistent with it as it would be with an associated or losi, they are both more forgiving.

[Ashler282]

I just like to see how well this new team buggy will do in compeition and how well it compares to the XXX in overal performance. Maybe RC Caraction should do a show down between the Losi and team

[pudder]

I wouldn't be suprised if they did...

[RCPhan]

So any new info on when this beauty is supposed to be released? It's getting close to the end of January and no news yet! I have some money to spend!

[pudder]

I only have 25$ to spend on a used pancar. :rolleyes:

[RoachRacing]

I have heard that the official release date is.....





Spring



Nice huh. I am trying to lock down a real date but cant yet.

Corey

[mike_Webb]

mid to late March.

[mike_Webb]

Sorry..hit submit to soon. The test are running well according to my source. No real problems and the parts are holding up pretty well. should get about 2-3 more weeks of Testing and then off to get the parts made and shipped to the Shops. This is according to my source.

[pudder]

Do you mind sharing who your source is... :o

[RoachRacing]

if people tell you who their source is, most sources would stop talking.

:D

[LRSeriesIII]

I don't think the B4 looks necessarily like the XXX, but you can see that they're both moving in the same direction. Lower, wider, more plastic. My question is whether any of the changes were compromises, as in to increase performance in one situation they decreased performance in another.

[RCPhan]

Scince we are kind of on the subject of Losi... can someone tell me exactly what all this "Spec" business is all about? I see spec tires, and Spec car kits and hear all about different colored tires... none of this existed 15 years ago. Should I expect to see an AE Team RC10 Spec Kit in the future?

[Mystracing]

Mike - I hope your source is wrong. If it's going to be a couple weeks before they okay the design I don't expect they could get tooled up and make a full production run anywhere near that fast. If they aren't already making parts I'd guess were at least 4 months away from seeing the kits in shops. It might not take long to make the parts but I'm betting it will take a long time to make the molds etc.

[Mystracing]

RCPhan - I wouldn't expect a spec version of a kit from Associated. Losi came out with that a year or two ago and it doesn't seem like it's really caught on. Unless it catches on sometime soon Associated probably won't take a gamble on it.

[RCPhan]

Thanx Myst!

But what exactly is "Spec"? And what are spec tires etc...?

[skip wagner]

I still heard AE is targeting a late Feb. release

[Mystracing]

Spec is short for Specifications. The Idea is to create a class where people are required to run a specific group of parts. As an example the Blue tires. They're a hard rubber compound that doesn't wear hardly at all. The lack of wear reduces the cost of racing because it isn't necessary to buy new tires very often. They are blue in color so the people officiating the race don't have to come up with a way to test the tire to ensure it's the proper compound for the class. If they're blue they're legal. The don't get very good traction on most surfaces because the rubber compound is too hard, but at the same time everyone is running the same thing so it makes it even. It goes far beyond the tires. At our track there was a spec class for over a year and we limited gearing, motor, and battery type along with the tires. I don't want to type a book but that should give you the basic idea.

My opinion of why it hasn't really taken off is a lack of standardization. It's difficult for a track to start a class and say you have to run a specific vehicle. When a new driver shows up that should be running in a spec type class they probably wont have the right equipment unless there is at least a national level push for it from ROAR, NORRCA, and the racing community in general. Spec classes tend to fall apart after a short period of time because the drivers don't want to stay in the slow class so they move on and there's no one left to run spec.

Consequently as mentioned above I wouldn't expect Associated to invest in a class or type of vehicle that doesn't already have a market sector.

[Mystracing]

Sorry for grtting so far off subject, but, but, but he asked:eek:

I'm sure hoping for a Feb release, got my fingers crossed.

[RoachRacing]

expect the unexpected, and expect it sooner then you might think. ;)

[decypher]

I jut hope they release a team kit on the same date.

[MagicD]

Hey Roach, are you saying you know something we don't know?? Like a firm release date...in the near future? ;)

[RoachRacing]

At this time I am not at liberty to say...

All I can say is :D

[RCPhan]

So don't say and just point us in the right direction!

[RoachRacing]

Wish that I could pooint a direction but this comes from one of those sources that cant be named. I would expect a announcement from AE sooner or later.

[mike_Webb]

Sorry..been away from the computer a while. I will not name my source but he has the car and he has not had any problems with it. I use to race with him and we are still good friends. He will not tell me a whole lot of information about the car like specifics unless it is already public. He did break a arm he said on a really bad hit. But he says his B3X would have probably had the same damage if not more. I asked about the tooling and he said that if there are not major changes to the parts then the tooling will be easy From what I gather from him these parts for his car are not hand made and are molded just like a production kit. He has not heard of any other problems they are having with the car from others that have it. He uses a basic setup on his car and he said it was well balanced and easy to drive. He also says the body is really nice. I aksed for pictures and he laughed and said NO!! :(

[NineBreaker]

AE is going to announce the release date of the B4 next week…

…Oh, and incase you were wondering who my source is the AE website.

[RCPhan]

Sweet! I have definately decided on the B4 over the Fireblade! Hopefully it will be out within the next few weeks... I need something to do as I am almost done with my Tamiya Hot Shot restore!

[RichieRich]

Holy crap. An announcement for an announcement? That's like setting up meetings for meetings. :confused:

[kyle stallings]

i think everyone needs to listen to skip wenger, that guy knows a lot about that car...

[AssociatedRacer]

Hobby People told me they would have them in by late feb. They have FT drivers there that work.

[AssociatedRacer]

Hobby People told me they would have them in by late feb. They have FT drivers there that work.

[TUCRACEMAN]

Originally posted by RichieRich
Holy crap. An announcement for an announcement? That's like setting up meetings for meetings. :confused:
Must be pudder on a diffrent screen name. ;)
~Dave

[pudder]

Thanks Dave... :rolleyes:

I have been behind on the B4 scene I was working on a rollcage for my Stampede as well as some other crap for a few days.

[Tstalion79]

So has anyone seen a b4 drive yet?

[pudder]

Yes they have been testing in Canada for the past few days. I personally got to meet some of the people working on the project. It is cold up here and has been past -40 degrees celcius so it really tests out the cars durability outside in the cold. They said that it should be released soo because testing was going well.

[RCPhan]

Originally posted by Tstalion79
So has anyone seen a b4 drive yet?

There is someone on this forum that claims to be testing one now!

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12354

[mike_Webb]

He works for Associated.

[RCPhan]

That's pretty cool that we are finally hearing something about this cars abilities... but then again he works for Associated and probably gets paid to say that! :D

So what is this "smoke-test" he was mentioning mean?

[mike_Webb]

I would guess a smoke test refers to trying stuff that will screw up the car. Puting a 8 turn single in the car and launching it off a jump and overflying the landing area and coming down hard. Going off jumps in bad shape and seeing how the car turns out. Maybe clipping boards to see how the arms stand up. Setting the Diff really loose and gunning the car around the track. Setting the Diff and slipper really tight and then launching the car off some big jumps with the throttle pegged to see how the gears stand up.

[pudder]

I think the "smoke test" is actually to do with aerodynamics. They run a fan in front of the car, or in a wind tunnel or whatever, and run a small stream of smoke over the car to see how the air flows. They just use smoke so they can see it, air would do the same thing but they cant see it.

Aerodynamics.

[MagicD]

Although they may have done some aerodynamics testing I don't think the "smoke test" he was talking about was using true "smoke". We software engineers use the term "smoke test" in exactly the way that mike_Webb described it...basically stress testing the design, and I'm pretty sure that's what the AE driver was referring to.

My proof is that there is no reason to use batteries at all in a windtunnel test because the model is stationary and the wind+smoke are what actually move. The driver talked about getting "10 [battery] packs through it".

[pudder]

It was a guess...

[the turd]

does anyone know the official release date yet? im talking about the first day i can walk into hobby people and buy one. i was saving up for a FTb3 but then heard of this. im getting one as soon as possible, and i already have the cash saved up:D

[skip wagner]

Smoke test is a common thing to hear from engineers.......you know, when everything looks ok for the initial test........just fire it up and see if any smoke comes out! i.e. "smoke test"

[decypher]

The turd, The official release date will be posted on Associated's site next week. I am sure most hobby shops have pre-ordered the B4, that is if they knew how to make some good money!

[the turd]

does anyone know if any of the kits will come with tire foam inserts? if so, which ones come with them?

[kyle stallings]

the sameones AE has always put in their kits.... stock foam

[TUCRACEMAN]

Now, does anyone know when the kit will be released???
:p Sorry, just had to say that to be annoying. AAARGH!! I am getting anxious though.
~Dave

[RCPhan]

You watch... AE is gonna wait until 11:59 Sunday night before releasing the info! Just to make those of us that are so eager to get a new buggy, drool that much longer!

[MagicD]

The AE website under "Web Site Updates" has this to say for its January 27th update: "I'll put up a release date and retail price for the B4 later this week."

Bah, more waiting...

[Mystracing]

Humm, Humm, Hummmmm......Tap..Tap...Tap

[RCPhan]

There are the beginings of a good conversation on the B4 at this link... lets see what other information we can milk out of Tony Phalan (with associated).


http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12354

[mike_Webb]

Part numbers and pricing:
#9034, B4 Stealth Team Buggy, $299.99 (suggested retail price)

Availability:
End of February 2003

[mike_Webb]

Well a Team T3 Truch has a estimated Retail of $309.. At stormmer Hobbies you can get that Team Truck for $184 so I guess the Team B4 should be about $180

[AssociatedRacer]

Hey guy's, I saw the b4 yesterday, looks awesome. It ran really smooth and fast. Kert Wagner told me that the kit should be availabe by the last week of Feb. It will be around 200 probably. The Factory team probably wont be out for a while, but expect hopups to come right after the car is realeased. I think there will be Threaded shock bodies availalbe for the car too...

[AssociatedRacer]

***************************************
2. RC10B4 Stealth Team Buggy Kit

We anticipate shipping the B4 Stealth at the end of February 2003.

Part numbers and pricing:
#9034, B4 Stealth Team Buggy, $299.99 (suggested retail price)

Availability:
End of February 2003

Web info:
http://www.rc10.com/shusting/CatalogHub/kitspecs_b4/rc10b4_kits.htm

***************************************
Straight off Associated's newsletter

[pudder]

Sure is. :) I got it tonight, they need to put up some new body shots thoug...

[TPhalen]

RCPhan.....I do frequent more than one board....and as far as 'milking me' for more info....not gonna work. I'll tell you what I can tell you (or what wenger or anyone else in the office will tell you) and that's it. But it was a good try!!! hahahaha AHHH BUSTED!!!! :) Oh ya, and it's PhalEn.

Car raced for the first time at SoCal tonite. I missed the first qual. but stayed for the second. It won both quals but I won't know about the main until tomorrow. Looks good. Looks real good. Driven by Travis Amezcua. That kids gotz skillz!!!!

Tonites opposition: Hodapp and True. Hodapp and Travis had a good race the whole way, but Peanut did pull off the two wins....

Car looks great jumping, landing, cornering and accelerating (is there anything left!?!??!)

[RCPhan]

Oh sure... and just chiming in now!?? Sorry Tony Phalan (hehe... joke) about the name spelling. Man, busted again, my mom always used to get me with that too!

Well, now that the cat is out of the bag... you have no choice but to give us more info... either that or my operatives from area 51 will be talking to you! hahaha

I am glad to hear the car is doing so well alread! Be sure to keep us posted on upcoming events that it whoops as... er whoops but in!

[WheelNut]

Ya, the B4 will definately be around $180usd. Usually you just multiply the list by 0.6 to get the street price in the states. In Canada at most competitive hobby shops the list is what the kit sells for.

[adam lancia]

i can't wait to get one!!! come on february, hurry up!!!!!

adam

[RoachRacing]

how about someone in socal pull out the digital camera and take a couple of pictures of the sucker. Send them to me and I will post them for all!

[RCPhan]

Yea... how about it Tony! I would like to see some "in action" photos of this baby too!

Any one else? Let's start a petition!

[pudder]

Go Pictures!

[mpower7477]

I was at socal and didnt see any b4's running :(

[MagicD]

Pictures would be great! Bring on the pictures!

[Namvet]

Was at my LHS yesterday and he said that it is going to sell for 269.00 and that it is in fact out, but he does not have it yet.

Remember if the message is wrong don't kill the messenger.

[mike_Webb]

Namvet... If I were you I would not buy anything anymore from your local hobby shop. My LHS is going to sell it for 189.99

[AssociatedRacer]

Ya, 269 is abserd for a 2wd Team Kit buggy.

[mike_Webb]

I wouldn't even pay that for a Factory Team. Factory Team should be priced about $230 or so.

[MagicD]

Stormer Hobbies has the B4 Team listed for $199.95.

https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?pn=ASC9034

I say print off a copy of that page and show it to that hobby shop that wants to charge $269. Give them the offer to "price match" and if they don't come down to at least $220ish then tell them politely that you'll take your business elsewhere. My guess (and probably any small business owner's decision) would be that they'd rather drop the price to within reason (they've gotta know they're high balling it) for 1 costomer than to lose the sale altogether.

[pudder]

I hate hobby shop prices, they are always charging stupid prices for certain things. You only find good deals on stuff once in a while. If you have a good track with a on site hobby shop, usually they will be able to order in whatever you want. That is what I do, it is quicker than ordering from a hobby shop, as well as cheaper and more convenient to pick up because I'm there every weekend.

[wcoyote_racer]

Straight off the web site from Associated, it looks like they are redoing the instructions, or at least the layout on it. They should be posting pictures up on the new format on their website sometime on the week of Feb 2nd. Check the updates on the Associated homepage. So if the instructions are the only thing keeping it from coming out, it may be closer than end of Feb. (crossing my fingers) :D

[RCPhan]

Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
Straight off the web site from Associated, it looks like they are redoing the instructions, or at least the layout on it. They should be posting pictures up on the new format on their website sometime on the week of Feb 2nd. Check the updates on the Associated homepage. So if the instructions are the only thing keeping it from coming out, it may be closer than end of Feb. (crossing my fingers) :D

Can you post the link to this?

Also, I have some cash to spend on a complete setup. The B4 is the first peice of the puzzle. I am planning on racing stock. I need batteries, motor, speed control, radio, charger etc... I basically need everything. Can you all give me some ideas as to what some of the best stock motors, batteries, radios, etc... are so I can be more than competitive?

Thanx

[pudder]

Motors: deppending on the track, there are lots of good motors. SOme of the most popular motors right now are the Trinity P2k 2 Pro, P2k Pro, GM3 Pro and Revenge Of The Monster Pro. I am not sure what the Revenge of the Monster Pro is for... The p2k is suited more for short tracks where lots of acceleration is needed, P2k 2 is suited for medium length tracks, and the GM3 is suited for long tracks where more pseed is needed. Out of those I like the p2k 2 pro best since I haven't tried the Revenge of the Monster. Redy also has a good stock motor, called the MVP. I reall y like this motor. It has good torque, speed and I like it more than any of the Trinity motors I have had. There is also other brands that make motors too, but these are the two brands I have the most experience with.

ESC's: LRP or Novak for the ESC's. For LRP get one of the Quantums and Novak the C2 Cyclone or new GT-7 are good.

Batteries: Now people are getting more into the NIMH packs. Get some good 3000's or 3300's. I have some sport 3300's and they give much more than enough run time and power. Matched packs are better than the unmatched, they jsut have a little more punch and last a little longer. I got sport 3300's because they are basically better than matched 3000's

CHargers: Novak Millenium Pro- good charger, has all the options you need, but you will need to buy an additional power supply. LRP/Reedy also makes some really nice chargers too. I don't think the LRP/reedy ones need an external power supply.

Radios: Choose from the higher end Futaba, JR, Hitec and so on. I myself use the XR3 and love it. Has all the features I ned for racing and at a good price. I really like the R-1, but don't have 700$ CAD to hack up for that.

Servos: Hitec makes some really good high quality servos, and most of them are pretty cheap too.

I hope this helps. If you need anything else, just ask. :)

[AssociatedRacer]

I agree with pudder, except I would get a nonhitec servo, Futaba, Ko, or Airtronics. Hitec servos gave me nothing but trouble. Even the higher end digital ones, like glitching. Also, out of those chargers, I have the Quasar pro, but was looking at the LRP and the Mpro. Quasar has discahrgering, the MPro doesnt. The LRP one is nice, but at 159.99+powersupply it is a bit pricey. Thats why i settled for the REedy, at 170ish with a built in power supply and discharging, u cant really go wrong.

[pudder]

Also, for the chargers part, if you can find a nice Tekin charger they are good. I use a Tekin 112A, and if it ever did break on you, there is a place in CA where you can send it to be fixed.

[drumr racer]

Novak came out with an inexpensive power supply, the Black Box.

[RCPhan]

Maybe I missed something over the last several years, but why bother with a "power source" when you can just buy an AC/DC charger?

[wcoyote_racer]

R/C Phan

Go to www.teamassociated.com and click on the "Web Site Updates" under the Associated News heading on the home page. There you will see it on the update for 1/31.

[pudder]

Originally posted by RCPhan
Maybe I missed something over the last several years, but why bother with a "power source" when you can just buy an AC/DC charger?

Because some chargers need a power supply. Ex. Novak Millenium Pro.

[AssociatedRacer]

Originally posted by drumr racer
Novak came out with an inexpensive power supply, the Black Box.

With that power supply the highest amps you could charge at is 4 amps. The Quasar does 6 out of the box, and discharges too. And its Reedy:D .

[RC10's]

hey pudder where in CA can you send in tekin stuff to be fixed? i was under the impression they went out of business? I have a rebel ESC that doesnt work....

[pudder]

The cheap Novak power supply wouldn't be too great. You atleast want something with 5-6 amps max. I got a used one for 50$ Canadian and does 30A max.

RC10's : http://www.expresstech.cjb.net/

[AssociatedRacer]

Why go through the trouble of getting a power supply? The quasar pro has one. I don't get the logic in spending more money for less performance, as the Mpro doesnt discharge.

[Taz_S]

Originally posted by pudder
I hate hobby shop prices, they are always charging stupid prices for certain things. You only find good deals on stuff once in a while. If you have a good track with a on site hobby shop, usually they will be able to order in whatever you want. That is what I do, it is quicker than ordering from a hobby shop, as well as cheaper and more convenient to pick up because I'm there every weekend.

Not this LHS he keep his prices low. he feel best to sell alot and make some money the try to chared a high price and sell less.

http://www.jphracing.com/Page.cfm

[pudder]

Originally posted by TEAMLOSIRACER
Why go through the trouble of getting a power supply? The quasar pro has one. I don't get the logic in spending more money for less performance, as the Mpro doesnt discharge.

He asked for suggestions so I gave him some, give me a break here.

[Hobbytown Racer]

Just a heads up on chargers. I have a like new MPro and TC2 speedo that I used in a 1/12 scale car. The charger comes with pitwizard software and the data link cord for the speedo. I'd like to sell both. They only have 3 weekends of racing on them. I'll take $250 including shipping to the lower 48 states.

I've decided to get a Q. Pro because it's ac/dc and I have a brand new, in box tekin G10 speedo that should fit great in the B4. :) Yeah,yeah it's alittle bit bigger then most but if it's anything like the other G10 I had, I'll use it. :)

I'm just patiently waiting for the car to come in, pre-paid just pick it up when the shop gets it. I can't wait to start racing 2wd mod again. :)

[pudder]

Tekin stuff is awsome. I run a 411G2 in my T3 and buggy and use a BC112A charger. :)

[the turd]

one month just about...im getting restless. i have a rustler right now. how much lighter will one of these buggies be compared to it? my rustler is kinda rear heavy. i hope it isnt the same with the b4...

[the turd]

i just checked tower hobbies for availability and the b4 is $247.99. how much is the average price going to be? its about $200 right? thanks

[psycho02]

That is about right, if you have a good lhs it should be about 185 in there.

[AssociatedRacer]

Originally posted by the turd
one month just about...im getting restless. i have a rustler right now. how much lighter will one of these buggies be compared to it? my rustler is kinda rear heavy. i hope it isnt the same with the b4...

Well of course it would be rear heavy with the motor sitting on the rear of the car...

[drumr racer]

Man! I couldn't get into here earlier, because ppeople were clogging up the thread.

I hope this tells AE something... something that they will have alot of customers
this thread already has more views than the Evader ST
36200 to 31900
maybee people want it to come out so bad;)

[drumr racer]

,Or it's all of those B4 junkies :D

[TPhalen]

We are trying something a little different with the instructions this time around. Should be MUCH easier to follow. I am actually the one in charge of the instructions so if you like them, let me know. If you don't, well, tough!!!!! :)

Ummm, action shots. Not sure WHY you'd want those. I mean, I do, but if you wait a few more weeks, you can take your own....

[pudder]

Originally posted by the turd
one month just about...im getting restless. i have a rustler right now. how much lighter will one of these buggies be compared to it? my rustler is kinda rear heavy. i hope it isnt the same with the b4...

It should be a lot lighter. Especially when they come out with the Factory Team model.

[TUCRACEMAN]

Originally posted by TPhalen
Should be MUCH easier to follow.
Is that possible?
~Dave

[chance]

Well, I found the B3/T3 manuals to be very clear and easy to understand.
I, like most AE drivers, look forward to the new car. However, I'm not going to dump my B3 right away, it's durability will be hard to beat.

[hawdoni]

Just add another nectar ride to the collection of fine AE cars. Love the instructions. Hope it wins the winter champs next week. Will be present for some qualifiers as the track is only 10 minutes away. Come on B4, don't let us down!!!

[drumr racer]

Hey TPhalen
have you driven the car yet, or seen it driven,
does it have excelent durability, or exquisite durability
or is it like the XXX-4's durability :D

[AssociatedRacer]

I saw it drive. It was pretty durable. Very few hits(Amezcua is a good driver), but some hards ones, no breakage though.

[drumr racer]

sweeeeeeeeeet
,but you can't pass up the FT though

[TPhalen]

We designed the car to be a rock! It's hard to just tell you, but once you build the car you will be amazed at it's rigidity! This thing is gonna let the shocks do most of the work!

Driven one. Very predictable. Very stable. Probably it's best feature is that it's very stable. Pretty reactive to small tweaks, also.

[adam lancia]

reactive to small tweaks?? SWEET!!! no more tinkering with 10 things to find the one i want to change..... more track time...WOOHOO!!!

adam