Team Associated B4 buggy forum v1.0

[jabronizx7]

WinterChamps, Why would associated go to the winterchamps..Its now a gas raceThey like losi are nolonger attending that race...But the Losi race in April at minnreg in Florida
Will be a killer race with the B4

[AssociatedRacer]

Originally posted by TPhalen
Pretty reactive to small tweaks, also.

What does that mean?:confused:

[pudder]

I think it means "when you make a small adjustment, you actually notice it and it will make a good difference in handling"

correct me if I'm wrong.

[drumr racer]

is the car easy to wrench on, so a ten year old could figure it out?

[pudder]

I'm sure a 10 year old could figure out any RC if he.she had some mechanical skills.

[TPhalen]

Well, I'm hoping a 10 year old could figure it out, but we don't know any to help us out with that.....any volunteers???? heh heh.

Just kidding. Really.

I think a 10 year old could do it. Sure. If 'I' can do it....heh heh

[MagicD]

"To be released no earlier than the end of February
#9034, B4 Stealth Buggy Team Kit, $299.99 retail"

That doesn't give me much hope that we'll see it this month. Blah.

[pudder]

Hmm, the way things are going I don't think I'll be getting a B4 anytime soon at all after it comes out. :( I found a good deal on a pancar and am dropping some money into that as well as some other stuff. :)

[AssociatedRacer]

you cant wait for the FT. I cant though, its been killing me waiting for 3 weeks.

[drumr racer]

I am not new to RC, but I don't know some basic stuff.
Can someone tell me what comes with, and what the differences are with the Team, Factory Team, and the sport kit.

And I don't know what AE means either.

[pudder]

AE stands for Team Associated.

The sport will probably come with bushings, maybe bearings, mechanical or no speed controller, and other basic parts like regular composite plastic, steel turnbuckles, steel shock shafts, other basic stuff. As we as probably dogbones too.

The team comes with bearings, CVD's, composite parts, steel turnbuckles and shock shafts, as well as no electronics. It is a bit better than the sport. No electronics either.

The Factory Team comes with rubber sealed bearings, CVD's, unobtanium coated shock shafts, Factory Team teflon coated shock bodies, blue screw kit (most likely) as well as some other cool titanium turnbuckles, probably blue.

I am not exactly clear about all the features of the cars. I am more knowledgeable about the B3 and T3.

[hawdoni]

AE=Associated Electrics. I don't think the factory team comes with the unobtanium shock shafts, at least not the B3 anyway.
Factory team also has mostly graphite parts, such as a-arms, shock tower, top plate, and chassis, versus composite for the team kit. In addition, the factory team comes with ball bearings in the steering bell-cranks. I don't think AE is going to produce a "basic" kit for the B4, at least not at first. I think they will first deliver the team kit, then FT. That is what I have read, so I am not positive.

[MagicD]

AE has updated the B4's page a bit. It now includes a sample of the new instructions format. Take a look:

http://www.rc10.com/shusting/CatalogHub/kitspecs_b4/rc10b4_kits.htm

[LouisB]

The old instructions were excellent but these seem a bit clearer (maybe it's b/c they're bigger on a computer)

PS: Nice curvy bellcranks!

[drumr racer]

When I go on AE's website to look at the b4, i can almost wrench on the car.

[Namvet]

Are there plans to have a RTR?


Thanks

Namvet

[losixxx213]

on ae's website they said that this car was raced at the 1991 ifmar world championships, it was only raced once and then went back to the r&d department for further testing.

[the turd]

There is this nice and knowledgeable guy at my local hobby people named herb. i went in yesterday to get some stuff for my rustler and asked him when the b4 was coming out. he said..."I'll make a joke; not b4 long"

get it? hehhe

[momosport]

Well, latest news from AE. Noticed that they finally have a Body to go w/ the new B4. Looks good to me! Im looking to get one here soon. Wish the FT was going to be available, but only time will tell.

Looks like some Losi influence.

http://www.rc10.com/shusting/CatalogHub/kitspecs_b4/head_b4.jpg



MOmo

[chance]

TPhalen, I think I remember reading somewhere that the B4 will not use the B3 rim. If that is the case, we need some front/rear rim part numbers.
Also, do you know which aftermarket company is, or maybe already does, make rims for this car.
I feel like Proline will most likely do body and rims but, I thought I saw an add for the B4 rims somewhere already that was not Proline.
Thanks

[AssociatedRacer]

the B4 will use XXX rims.

[k_sw31]

Hey guys, I haven't posted here in awhile but.....

I have been taking a look at the new B4, and I like the few improvements they have made since I last took a look at it.

So now, I'm interested in ordering the kit, but I have a few questions-

What will the kit include (features, like hard FT shocks, Ti turnbuckles/hingepins etc....)
Would it be worth it to wait for a FT edition? I dont want/need all the graphite stuff, but will it have stuff that would be worth it? How much extra will it run?

Thanks-kyle :)

[AssociatedRacer]

No point in waiting for the FT, unless you want to wait another year. The Team is pretty well equiped. Steel turnbuckles, Hard Anodized shock bodies, Bearings, etc.

Similiar to the B3 team edition.

[k_sw31]

Ok, I think I may pre order a B4 soon, any one else's opinion?

[ZootMan]

im not a big electric fan but this will liven things up at the track for sure.

[AssociatedRacer]

Go for it! I would preorder it, but my LHS doesnt do that.

[pudder]

Them steel turnbuckles got some bad mojo...

I just tend to bend them :P

[k_sw31]

Yeah, but they dont bother me that much, tweaked hingpins do though, but the Ti ones are only like 15$ :)

[k_sw31]

Ok, its official, I am buying a B4 buggy.

What do you guys think, should I order it now and be sort of a guinea pig, or do you think I should wait untill rcca does a track test, it would be a real bummer if the plastic stuff was really brittle like the early XXX-4s were...

[AssociatedRacer]

I heard that the car was designed to be a tank, and very strong. I also saw it at socal, and it showed no weakness. It took some hard hits, but it never broke.

[Hobbytown Racer]

I should have mine within the week it's released.:D

[TPhalen]

Hi again. Sorry. Really busy time right now.... Has some misfortunes recently in my life and it's making it hard to have some spare time to get on here....

Ok. AE does have the new B4 instructions online....well, the first page, anyway. Go to:

www.rc10.com
Website Updates
B4 Page

3/4 of the way down you will see the links.

[k_sw31]

Yeah, I saw that too, scroll down a little more and there is a little data sheet that has some new FT items on it. The threaded shock bodies are pretty lame though, I mean, the rears are only threaded about 1 centimeter (or around 1/3 or an inch :() whats the point ???

Oh yeah, I'm gonna order one through stormerhobbies tomorrow! :D

[AssociatedRacer]

Threaded shock bodies lame? I dont think so! Its only that big because thats how much is used. At least be happy we finally have them!

[MagicD]

Man, this thread is gunna hit 40,000 views before the buggy even comes out! :O

[pudder]

Originally posted by TEAMLOSIRACER
Threaded shock bodies lame? I dont think so! Its only that big because thats how much is used. At least be happy we finally have them!

Personally, I could go fine without threaded shock bodies. I mean sure they are convenient, but if you like to do accurate adjustments, you will want to have a caliper to make sure you get them all the same adjustment. I just like the preload clips.

Just my opinion. :)

[MagicD]

Lots of B4 parts have been added to the Tower Website. Check it out:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=rc10b4&FVPROFIL=++

Notable parts:
-Part 9614: B4 body is called the "Interceptor"
-Part 9655: Full Carbon Parts Set $57.99
-Part 9588: front wheels
-Part 9589: rear wheels

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by TEAMLOSIRACER
Threaded shock bodies lame? I dont think so! Its only that big because thats how much is used. At least be happy we finally have them!

those shocks are lame.

I mean, right now I have more space taken up on my shocks in terms of spacing the springs, and If I were to take it to an off road track I'm firm it up a little bit more, they are truly pointless....

[mtn bkr]

Originally posted by k_sw31
those shocks are lame.

I mean, right now I have more space taken up on my shocks in terms of spacing the springs, and If I were to take it to an off road track I'm firm it up a little bit more, they are truly pointless....

You actually don't use threaded collars or preload spacers to firm up your shocks. You're supposed to use them to adjust your ride height. I do see people's point as to not needing threaded shocks, but it seems like a non issue since it appears that they'll still be making the standard team shocks with spacers.

[RichieRich]

Looks like we need a shock refresher course!! :p

[k_sw31]

well, if you think about it, the more preload spacers you have, the more pressure will be on the shock spring, making the suspension harder to compress and it will rebound a little quicker...

[the turd]

the b4 is going to be my first full-blown race vehicle. i was reading the data sheet that was on AE's page and it says a pinion gear isnt included. where will i find a pinion for the b4 then? will the b3/t3 pinions work? thanks

[AssociatedRacer]

Originally posted by k_sw31
well, if you think about it, the more preload spacers you have, the more pressure will be on the shock spring, making the suspension harder to compress and it will rebound a little quicker...

If you race then you wouldn't need that much preload. If you dont this isn't the car for you.

[AssociatedRacer]

Originally posted by the turd
the b4 is going to be my first full-blown race vehicle. i was reading the data sheet that was on AE's page and it says a pinion gear isnt included. where will i find a pinion for the b4 then? will the b3/t3 pinions work? thanks

Pinions can be found out any LHS that carries R/C's. I doubt you will be able to use the pinion from the b3/t3 because I think the gear ratio of the diff's are different(this one being 2.61)? Someone tell me if im wrong.

[the turd]

also, i plan on running a 17 turn motor. what would be the best gear set up? i looked at AE's racing gears on towerhobbies.com and it goes from 15 tooth to 25 tooth. what would the best pinion size for about equal torque and rpm? thanks

[k_sw31]

The turd- you will be able to use most any 48 pitch pinion gear in the b4

TLR- well, that entirley depends on the track, I do not race all the often, but I do know under some circumstances that it would be a lot easier to simply dial the springs down a little rather change out shock oils or pistons. Besides, all it would take is a few more spins on a die (thats how they thread them???) to thread them a bit further down, and if you don't need them threaded anyfurther, then why are the front shocks threaded so much more????

[k_sw31]

Turd- I dont know what pinion gears you will be supposed to use, but the B4 manuals will most likley have gearing charts etc.

I'm guessing with a 17 turn you'd want to use around a a 20 tooth though...

[the turd]

yeah, i think im going to get a 19 tooth for the torque compared to a 20 tooth. my local track is kinda twisty

[losixxx213]

I like the way t threaded shocks look, since the b4 is designed for off road racing, you want to try to keep the center of gravity as low as possible(so the car turns and handles better). If you're worried about bottoming out, try different springs,shock pistons,and oil weights to stiffen the rear end.

[k_sw31]

Yeah I like the fact that AE is starting to make threaded shock bodies (even though I have no real need for them), but I'm just saying it would be a lot nicer, and it would take hardly any effort to thread them a little more, it would be a lot easier to just pull your car off the track real quick and give it a couple of twists rather than pulling the car out, pulling off the shocks, opening them up, refilling them, etc...

[losixxx213]

True it's easier to adjust ride height, but it's always better to have your car dialed in. Remember that that the ride height adjustment does not make the spring stiffer, just makes the car ride higher.

[k_sw31]

No, the spring does get stiffer, example: Take a spring off your truck, hold it between your thumband forefinger with out applying any pressure to it. If you were to press down one the spring it would compress easier than if you already had the spring slighty compressed, because when a spring is compressed, it is pushing back, therefore making it harder to collapse thus makes your suspention a bit stiffer :)

[adam lancia]

losixxx213 is right about the spring changing ONLY ride height although it does sometimes feel like the spring becomes stiffer when you add more pre-load even though it can't. most of the springs we use have a constant rate. in order to change the firmness of the spring, a stiffer spring must be put in it's place. this is why associated makes several springs.

as for the threaded bodies, AE has made their rear buggy shocks shorter for the B4. i'm not sure how much shorter but they have probably done this to allow the use of fewer pre-load clips and the result is not having to thread the collar down as far. correct me if i'm wrong but i think i heard something along those lines.....here's a question for anyone who knows...what is different about the B4 front rims versus the B3 fronts? are they wider? do they have a different bearing spacing and therefore a different axle? also, has anyone heard whether lunsford is making a turnbuckle/hingepin set for the buggy? a little info here would be nice..thanks for any replies,

adam

[k_sw31]

If the spring is compressed, it is pushing back, therefore making the suspension stiffer!

I haven't heard anything from lunsford yet, but I am 100% sure they will make a set :)

[mike_Webb]

K_sw31-

Springs are just for Ride height..and tuning for a constant pressure. If you compress the spring it is not stiffer. I use to think this until I ran at a race and heard a Pro Driver helping a kid with his shocks and saying that springs should just be used for ride height and getting the feel of the car. I think he said if you take a spring and put it on a scale and press down on the spring with a 2x4 the scale will record the weight of the spring pressure being put on the scale. It doesn't matter if you compress it 1/4 of the way, 1/2 of the way or 3/4 of the way. The only way that springs are used to make a car soft and then stiffer is using progressive springs...which have larger gaps beteween the coils and then down on the spring they will be closer together.

[k_sw31]

Yes, when you compress a spring, the spring itself does not get stiffer, but since there is more force on the spring, it will push back harder, giving the suspension a 'firmer' or stiffer feel.

Big deal if a 'pro driver' said it

Just because he is a pro driver doesn't necessarily mean he is right, even if he does have years of successful racing and a sponsership :rolleyes:

PS, my b4 is ordered :)

[mike_Webb]

K-sw31

you are right...what the hell does Matt Francis know anyways... he must have someone else set up his cars. He also got lucky winning the world championships and numorous national titles.

Keep thinking the way you are thinking...you will learn when you race at a real race and when you go out to race you have about 2 inches of ride height because you do not know how to tune your suspension....also I think it was Cliff Lett or Mark Pavadis that wrote a article about 2 years ago about suspension setups on touring cars and off-road cars.

Also if you are really worried about it just get the threaded shock bodies and go buy a Pipe Threader and Thread the shock bodies more so you can get those Springs really compressed so that your car has the right suspension tunning. :rolleyes:

[k_sw31]

Jesus, all I am saying is your spring rate is not only for your ride height. I just dont see how you guys can't back up your own opinions/beliefs with facts, all you can say is "well, a pro driver said it so it must be true" I'm not saying that pro drivers dont know ****, I'm just saying that maybe you should step back and really think about it, pull out a spring and put it between your fingers, see what happens, instead of just going with what someone says.

I have my opinion you have yours...

[TPhalen]

k_sw31 is correct....Spring rate is NOT just for ride height. It's also for weight transfer. But, I'm sorry to say, you are wrong about the fact that compressing hte spring and making it stiffer. Compressing the spring merely reduces the amount of free-length it has. It still has the same rate whether it's at full length or compressed almost all the way.

If it was stiffer, it should be able to hold more weight at almost full compression, right? Well, it won't. Sorry.

Spring rate will dictate how much weight is shifted from one end of the car to the other under acceleration and deceleration. A stiffer spring won't dive as much or won't squat as much. A lighter spring will dive more or squat more. That's basically it.

[Kdonks]

Lets see if I can add some insight. I don't like misinformation.

k_sw31: You are right, if you squeeze a spring more, it pushes back against your fingers more. Linear spring the equation is Force = K(spring constant) x X(distance the spring is compressed). Just standard physics.

In terms of our cars and the spring preload we are dealing with something different. With race cars the preload spacers is to adjust ride height. If you lift up your car your wheels should fall a little or "droop". That means that when you car is on the ground, the only force that the spring feels is the weight of the car reguardless of the preload spacers. If you keep adding preload spacers then the shock piston will bottom out and you will start making the spring stiffer. The pro guy may disagree with you here because his car is never at the point where the shocks are bottomed out. On basher cars like the T-Maxx this may be different. The car may be designed or sold with the shocks already bottomed out and adding preload spacers will stiffen the springs so to say.

Just some things I've learned playing with these things.

[Kdonks]

One more thing......

Does anyone know if the B4 is going to be out before the Cactuc Classic. I'm about to sell my B3 and I want to know if I should sign up for buggy or not. This is the B4 thread right?

[AssociatedRacer]

Originally posted by the turd
yeah, i think im going to get a 19 tooth for the torque compared to a 20 tooth. my local track is kinda twisty

Dont buy the pinion tell you get the chart for the b4. It might be different from the other's, like b3, t3, etc. Its your best bet.

[AssociatedRacer]

Originally posted by Kdonks
One more thing......

Does anyone know if the B4 is going to be out before the Cactuc Classic. I'm about to sell my B3 and I want to know if I should sign up for buggy or not. This is the B4 thread right?

They say buy the end of Feb, which cactus is in march right?

So i believe so unless they delay it:rolleyes:

[mike_Webb]

If you want to buy pinions I would get about 10 pinions...16-26 just to be safe. Tight track go lower.... Long Track go higher. Depends on the Motor too. Monster 19, P2K2 21, P2K 23, Orion 24, promatch based Code Red 20 Pinion.

The car will be out in the stores buy the first or second week in March is when people will be getting them... Shipping in the end of February...if your shop is on the fast track to get the car. I talked to the AE guys at Snowbirds about the car. Also what I thought was funny.. there is so much suspension Travel in the rear of the car that the Rear Tires actually come up and hit the wing half way up on the side dam. From the Car bottoming out and chassis against the ground you still had almost 1/2 inch more of suspension travel. The car looked very nice at the snowbirds.

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by Kdonks
In terms of our cars and the spring preload we are dealing with something different. With race cars the preload spacers is to adjust ride height. If you lift up your car your wheels should fall a little or "droop".

Well, if you think about it, when you adjust the spring to eliminate droop, you are causing the spring to push so the shocks stay fully or near fully extended, and when you are causing the spring to push back, it takes more force to compress the spring, there fore making it stiffer :)

[mike_Webb]

So you are saying if I set my droop at 4.. and on one side I set the spring so that it is just perfectly at rest on the collar. Then i take the other side and set the droop at 4 and then I screw down the collar so that the spring is compressed 3/4 of the way that now this side is stiffer then the other?

If that is what you are saying that is wrong. I just tried it on my TC3 and both sides feel the same. when compressing the suspension..and they seem to rebound the same. Of course the Droop screw with the spring 3/4 compressed is digging into my chassis big time.

This is with Copper Springs on the Rear and 57mm foam tires. the Right side of the car is at 6mm ride height (3/4 compresed) and the left side (resting on the collar) is at 4mm ride hieght.

[TPhalen]

Ok. It's stiffer. 30 people telling you it isn't and you seem to think it is. Whatever. Like you said, it's your opinion. And you're entitled to it! :)

The B4 is in the absolute FINAL stages. We should have them out by the end of Feb/1st week March, barring ANY problems!

The car you saw at the Snowbirds was our first car. The body and wing are first article cold pulls....if you noticed, the wing sides were probably swooping out....the 'taco' effect! :) That is why they touched upon compression of the rear arms. Rest assured the production units will NOT do this!

[mike_Webb]

Ahh .. Nice... that is why they didn't want me to drop it from three feet to see how well the suspension works :D. The car look really good. Only complaint I had was the use of the Hingle Pins like on the TC3. I hope they do not bend as easily on the B4 as they do on the TC3. Titanium will not work becaue I think it will sheer and break...couple of people at my track had that problem... It was cheaper to buy 5 sets of BRP hinge pins then the Ti Hinge Pins.

[TPhalen]

The stock hinge pins work pretty good. Through all our 'crash tests', we have yet to bend one! :) Not sure if we're gonna have a 'shiny' set or not....if we do, those will be the ones to get!

[psycho02]

Originally posted by k_sw31
Well, if you think about it, when you adjust the spring to eliminate droop, you are causing the spring to push so the shocks stay fully or near fully extended, and when you are causing the spring to push back, it takes more force to compress the spring, there fore making it stiffer :)


Some guys you just can't reach Tphalen. Although you would think he would believe you since you work with CLIFF "freaking"LETT on a daily basis.

[adam lancia]

LOL!!! ILMAO!!!

A-freakin'-MEN psycho02!!.....

B4 gonna be here soon....WOOHOO!!!!!!!

adam

[RichieRich]

I'll see if I can find the article about spring rates and spring collars. As far as I remember, the collars are just for adjusting ride height. In order to change stiffness, you change oils and/or spring rates. Where's SteveP when you need him? :)

[decypher]

Exactly, thus the reason Companies create springs with different rates. It not, then we could all ride around with Losi pink springs, All the time! Yipee!!

[RoachRacing]

TPhalen - News on another board has told of the appearance of a certain truck in late March early April. If you can, do you want to add to these rumors?

Corey

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by TPhalen
Ok. It's stiffer. 30 people telling you it isn't and you seem to think it is. Whatever. Like you said, it's your opinion. And you're entitled to it! :)



I like to think for myself :)

Besides, what it would take to convince me is if some one were to sit down and show me something that will prove what you guys are saying, either that or something that I can do myself...:)

[mike_Webb]

K-sw31-

Have fun.... you could always try what I did and prove it to yourself... guess you will never learn. TPhalen works for Assocaited so you would think he would know what he is talking about....but then again you think that Pro Drivers that have won National and world Chamionships don't know anything. Spread good information...not bad information. Someone listening to you about this will set up their car all wrong...that is why so many people are telling you what you don't seem to understand. There is to many little kids on this board that think they know everything and give out bad information.

[k_sw31]

Look, I'm not saying that TPhalen or anyone else is wrong, I'm just saying I believe what I believe, and I am not going to accept information as 'the truth' unless it makes sense to me...

[psycho02]

You want proof? get yourself a spring dyno put a spring in it and I guarantee the rated pounds per inch will not change, no matter how much you compress the spring.



p.s. I did'nt really want to have to justify myself but I guess I will. I am a manufacturing engineer at American SPRING company in Muskegon Michigan all we do is make springs thats it.

If that is not enough oh well at least I know my car will be set up right.

[k_sw31]

ok, so springs are used to adjust ride height right? So if you adjust the preload (making the spaces in between each coil smaller) to take out the droop in your suspension, you are making the spring push the shocks out, and since the spring is pushing outward harder, doesn't that make the spring harder to compress? Making the suspention firmer?

[AssociatedRacer]

Okay, who cares, your right k_sw31, everyone else is wrong:rolleyes: . Can we give it a break now? Enough.


Anyway, on a lighter side, Anyone know if the common electric screws are 3mm or 4mm?

[k_sw31]

Yeah, we should probably give this a break, its not like anyone is going to be conivinced one way or another anyways....I just set up my car for what works...

[MagicD]

k_sw31,

Here is a good resource for learning the basics of rc car dynamics. Take a look through it and you might just learn something. I would prefer to leave my physics textbook on the shelf and not write out a lengthy proof as to why springs behave the way they do, so please believe what these fine folks on the board and in the following link have to say. They speakith the truth.

http://www.rc10.com/basicshub/setuphelp/handbook/handbook_toc.htm

Happy Racing!

[k_sw31]

Ok, I do want to believe what you are saying, I almost do ( I read through a few of those chapters just a few minutes ago), but, I just cant accept something that doesn't seem right to me, just like if you throw on an extra preload spacer, it is harder to compress the suspension...you guys just dont worry about it anymore...

[chance]

:) I never pass up an opportunity to beat a dead horse!

k_sw31, here is a simple experiment that will prove the point eveyone is trying to make. This will be easy and clear!

Take a book that weighes about the same as your buggy or truck, use four shock springs of the same rate(color) and lenght.
Now, place the springs on a table, upright, in a square so that you can place the book on top of them and they are near the corners.
OK, the book is resting on the springs and they are compressed some. Now measure the height of the book above the table and write it down.

Next, phase two of the experiment!
Remove the book and add a few pennies or whatever as spacers under each spring. Now put the book back on the springs as before and measure the height again and write it down.

Here's the payoff... figure the difference of the two measurements and write that down. Now measure the thickness of the items that you used as spacers....WOW! it's the same!

By the way, use a ruler marked with millimeters, fractions of an inch are tough to work with.
Later

[Kdonks]

B4 this gets out of control I want to hear about more sightings of the B4. I haven't seen one in Vegas yet.

[AssociatedRacer]

I've seen it several times at socal. Impressive runs. It bottoms out a LOT though do to its low center of gravity, but so do all the other XXX. The car looks real strong.

[MagicD]

I've got a request for those in the Socal region: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bring a camera to the track with you and then promptly post picks of the car! Every little picture helps pass the time. :)

[mtn bkr]

Originally posted by TEAMLOSIRACER
I've seen it several times at socal. Impressive runs. It bottoms out a LOT though do to its low center of gravity, but so do all the other XXX. The car looks real strong.

Did you notice whether or not it stays more stable than the B3 when it bottoms out? Both of the T3s and B3s I've owned had a tendency to get loose in the rear end whenever they bottomed out.

[TPhalen]

RoachRacing: If you are talking about the BFT, Spring is the official date. WHEN in Spring is the hard part to nail down right now. The B4 is the main project right now, followed by the BFT.

Kdonks. You probably haven't seen one in Vegas yet because there is only ONE running version right now. We're running it through it's paces at SoCal almost weekly. Fine tuning this, playing with that setting, blah blah blah.

Pix of the car. Unless you have a telefoto lens and can get it from a ways away, we aren't letting people take good closeups of it yet. Even though almost ALL the parts are finalized, some of the parts on the car are still prototype. We should have a full-blown production car ready early next week. I have a 90% complete production car on my desk right now. As soon as the rest of the parts come in, I'm RUNNING IT!!!!

chance: beating a dead horse....hahahahaha

And k_sw31, you said it perfectly when you stated: I'll do what works best for me. That's so true!!!! My TC setups are usually a little wacky, but the car works GREAT for me!

[AssociatedRacer]

What does BFT stand for?:confused:

[MagicD]

TPhalen,

Thanks for the update! Some of what you sad discourages me though...namely not having all the parts finalized. That leads me to believe that by using my engineering time multiplier (take however long you think it'll take and multiply it by 4) it'll be at least late Feb before the parts are nailed down, figure in at least 2 weeks to manufacture the parts for all the cars, then packaging and shipping will bring the release to right around the end of March. :(

Please(!) prove me wrong! :D

[TPhalen]

Well, like I said, I have a car that is 90% production...which means, 90% of the car is finalized. The last couple parts are being finalized either tomorrow or friday. Once that is done, the parts will be on their way to use by mid to late next week. Package them up the following week and ship them out!

The release date is the end of Feb. It will be shipped by then, barring and MAJOR problems (AE burning down, a SUPER hot day where all the plastic in our warehouse melts, etc....)

BFT stands for Bigger, Faster, Tougher. Sure it does....

[Backfire]

k_sw31: You should combine the earlier post with the F=kX formula with the book example given above. Setup you car at normal ride height and measure the spring length. Then add spacers to raise the ride height. Re-measure the spring length. Assuming the shock shaft has not bottomed out on the shock body, the length of the spring will remain the same even though the ride height has increased. If the length, X, has remained the same, and k cannot change unless you cut the spring, F must remain the same. And this should make sense because the car still weighs the same, so each spring must still support the same weight.

[RoachRacing]

Originally posted by TPhalen
RoachRacing: If you are talking about the BFT, Spring is the official date. WHEN in Spring is the hard part to nail down right now. The B4 is the main project right now, followed by the BFT.


Actually the truck i am talking about starts with a T and ends in a 4 . Somebody on a different board claimed that a sales manager from AE said it would be out in March or April.

[Mystracing]

I think k_sw31 is correct about what he is trying to convey he just isn't explaining it very well, before you flame me read the rest of this post. Like everyone says it's a fact that the spring doesn't get stiffer when you add predload spacers. The wheel rate / suspension can be effectively stiffened if you add enough spacers though.

On a racers vehicle the wheel rate doesn't change when adding preload because racers never add so much preload that the spring isn't compressed some by the weight of the vehicle when it's placed on the ground. The car and spring are in a state of equalibrium where the springs are pushing the car up with a force equal to the weight of the car. Because of this the amount of pressure required to cause the wheel to rise is equal to the wheel rate.

If you add so much preload that the suspension is locked against the down stops when the car is on the ground the springs are no longer in a state of equalibrium. They are pushing the chassis up with more force than the weight of the vehicle. In this condition the wheel rate is effectively increased. In order to compress the suspension the force on the wheel has to equal not only the spring rate, but also the excess spring pressure that is holding the suspension locked. At that point adding more preload will effectively increase the stiffness of the suspension, not the stiffness of the spring but the effective wheel rate.

If you have a car with a wheel rate of 1 pound per inch and the suspension in equalibrium, if you put one pound on it, the suspension will compess one inch. If you have the same vehicle and the spring is already compressed 1/2 an inch beyond the beyond the equalibrium point and you place 1 pound on it, the suspension will only compress 1/2 an inch. The actual wheel rate and spring rate aren't changed, but effectively the suspension is stiffer. Meaning it will require more pressure to cause the same suspension action.

This is a horrible way to set up a vehicle unless your jumping skateboard ramps at a skate park, but none the less it is the exception to the rule. It isn't really an exception to the rule, just a place where the rule needs to be placed under other constraints. It doesn't apply to properly setup race vehicles because if the spring isn't in equalibrium at rest the suspension won't work proberly.

Just a quick summary of what I said so I don't get hammered so bad.

1. The spring rate and wheel rate remain constant like everyone is saying.
2. "Effectively" the suspension can be stiffened if you add enough pre-load to overcome the weight of the vehile. It isn't that the spring becomes stiffer, it's just that it takes more force to compress the suspension the same amount. Also please not I said it takes more pressure to compress the "Suspension" not the spring.

[Mystracing]

Enough about the springs, sorry about that.

Tony - can the kickup on the front of the B4 be adjusted by placing washers under the front mounts or by using different mounts?

[Kdonks]

Tphalen,

Cool, thanks for the update.

[bubblejunky]

Let's see. BFT=Big Friggin' Truck, or whatever expletive you deem fit.

[RoachRacing]

saw this posted on another site, thought it was funny.

THE B4 (http://www.smm3g.com/B4/B4.htm)

[the turd]

lol

[TPhalen]

That's a GREAT joke site....it actually made it to our R&D dept. today!!!!

RoachRacing: hahahaha would be interesting to a T 4 hit the shelves by March or April, but since we aren't working on one, maybe this 'sales manager' is!!!! :) No, sorry. The next vehicle that is the priority is the BFT. That thing is gonna take up a LOT of our time to get it finalized. Some more testing and some more tweaks and it should be ready by Spring.

Mystracing: There aren't any other mounts available (that we will produce, anyway), but I guess you COULD put shims or spacers under there. No an option we are offering, though.

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by Mystracing
I think k_sw31 is correct about what he is trying to convey he just isn't explaining it very well, before you flame me read the rest of this post. Like everyone says it's a fact that the spring doesn't get stiffer when you add predload spacers. The wheel rate / suspension can be effectively stiffened if you add enough spacers though.

On a racers vehicle the wheel rate doesn't change when adding preload because racers never add so much preload that the spring isn't compressed some by the weight of the vehicle when it's placed on the ground. The car and spring are in a state of equalibrium where the springs are pushing the car up with a force equal to the weight of the car. Because of this the amount of pressure required to cause the wheel to rise is equal to the wheel rate.

If you add so much preload that the suspension is locked against the down stops when the car is on the ground the springs are no longer in a state of equalibrium. They are pushing the chassis up with more force than the weight of the vehicle. In this condition the wheel rate is effectively increased. In order to compress the suspension the force on the wheel has to equal not only the spring rate, but also the excess spring pressure that is holding the suspension locked. At that point adding more preload will effectively increase the stiffness of the suspension, not the stiffness of the spring but the effective wheel rate.

If you have a car with a wheel rate of 1 pound per inch and the suspension in equalibrium, if you put one pound on it, the suspension will compess one inch. If you have the same vehicle and the spring is already compressed 1/2 an inch beyond the beyond the equalibrium point and you place 1 pound on it, the suspension will only compress 1/2 an inch. The actual wheel rate and spring rate aren't changed, but effectively the suspension is stiffer. Meaning it will require more pressure to cause the same suspension action.

This is a horrible way to set up a vehicle unless your jumping skateboard ramps at a skate park, but none the less it is the exception to the rule. It isn't really an exception to the rule, just a place where the rule needs to be placed under other constraints. It doesn't apply to properly setup race vehicles because if the spring isn't in equalibrium at rest the suspension won't work proberly.

Just a quick summary of what I said so I don't get hammered so bad.

1. The spring rate and wheel rate remain constant like everyone is saying.
2. "Effectively" the suspension can be stiffened if you add enough pre-load to overcome the weight of the vehile. It isn't that the spring becomes stiffer, it's just that it takes more force to compress the suspension the same amount. Also please not I said it takes more pressure to compress the "Suspension" not the spring.

THANK YOU! :D



And k_sw31, you said it perfectly when you stated: I'll do what works best for me. That's so true!!!! My TC setups are usually a little wacky, but the car works GREAT for me!

:)

TPhalen- I have my B4 on order from stormer hobbies now, how long do you think it will take my Lhs to get B4 parts in stock?

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by RoachRacing
saw this posted on another site, thought it was funny.

THE B4 (http://www.smm3g.com/B4/B4.htm)

LOL!

[tallyrc]

holy crap. tower's early price is $247????????????????? i hope that is a bit off. considdering you can get a factory team b3 or like $205. or a xxx kinwald edition for $220 or so...

[adam lancia]

Tphalen: are the new front wheels much different than the older ones from the B3? i'm trying to figure out if i can use my current front wheels with the new buggy...i know the rears are different but i haven't heard about the fronts. any info you can give would be great!! thanks,

adam

[DLF]

I'd like to know this too, Adam. I was just about to sell my B3 with tires, wheels and all...but wasn't sure if I should get rid of all my front wheels and tires.

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by tallyrc
holy crap. tower's early price is $247????????????????? i hope that is a bit off. considdering you can get a factory team b3 or like $205. or a xxx kinwald edition for $220 or so...

Stormer hobbies has them for 200 now, I think most everyone will carry them for around that price, maybe it will drop down to around 190 after they have been out for 4 months or so...

[skip wagner]

None of the b3 wheels fit the b4. the rear wheel is standard offset common with the Losi car, so both manufs. rims will work. The front rim is a new max offset.....as far as they could go. So no more rim changes on subsequent AE buggies.

Everywhere I have seen says the B4 retail is the same as the B3.....

[adam lancia]

thanks for the reply skip.....

dana: have you been racing lately? from the sounds of things, you're getting a B4 as well....i'm all giddy just thinking about it! this will be my first new car in more than 6 years....i love a new car.....

adam

[Hobbytown Racer]

adam, that's because you don't get one but every 6 years!!! LOL :D

[pudder]

Wow, 6 years, I have already gotten 2 pancars this year... how many last year, lets see, T3, Digger, Pede, Outrage, RC10... :p


I'm addicted

[DLF]

Oh yea...I've been racing. 2wd mod, 1/8th scale and gas truck. :D

[RichieRich]

smacktards!?!?! LOL!!! :D :D

[adam lancia]

Hobbytown Racer: you're right about the 6 year wait....maybe we should call it the 6 year itch or something like that. it's definitely worth the wait though.....

dana: you lucky dog!! you get to have all that fun and i'm stuck here, studying anatomy and writing papers! life just isn't fair sometimes...oh well, going to race next weekend:D :D :D :D

now i just gotta get some cash together to get my B4.....

adam

[TPhalen]

Ya, what Skip said.

Say Skip....do I know you???? :p :p

[skip wagner]

Hey tphalen,

Yeah, I've seen you down at SoCal before. you've probably heard my name a lot when they announce me dominating intermediate stock truck. OK, so maybe I wouldn't call it dominating......

[k_sw31]

TPhalen- Maybe you didn't catch this from above...so do you expect spare parts for the B4 to hit shelves about the same time as the B4 does itself?

[TPhalen]

k_sw31: Yes, without a doubt....

Skip: Dominating, huh?? Is that what you tell all yer buds??? :)

[adam lancia]

tony or skip:

i understand that spare parts will be hitting the shelves with the kit but what about the titanium stuff? i am hoping to assembly the kit with Ti turnbuckles and hingepins but i'm not sure if they will be available either from AE or lunsford...would either of you happen to know if this stuff will be available when the kit is released? replies are much appreciated....

adam

[Kdonks]

not to step on anyone's toes but lundsford makes turnbuckles from 1" to 2.75" in 1/8" increments. There might not be a kit for the B4 but you can probably piece together a set from lundsford. Just a thought.

http://www.lunsfordracing.com/turnbuckles.htm

[adam lancia]

Kdonks: don't worry about stepping on my toes....i'm a double leg amputee, i doubt i'd notice;) :D ...i thought about piecing together the turnbuckles but i can't find out what lengths i need as of yet. i'm trying to plan all of my purchases to be as cost effective as possible...i'm a college student and don't have a ton of discretionary income. the other reason for looking for the kit is because it's usually cheaper than putting it together piece by piece. thanks for the input,

adam

[pudder]

I doubt the titanium and graphite stuff will come out until the Ft is released, but I could be, and am likely to be wrong. They may have them to be optional parts when the kit is released.

[TPhalen]

The TI turnbuckles are ones we already stock. They are the 2.00" versions. You can buy them in pairs or the soon to be released 6 piece package. Don't remember the part number, though. Sorry!

Hingepins are uncertain right now....

[adam lancia]

thanks tony...how have the steel hingepins held up through testing? i really like the idea of no more e-clips pinging me in the eyes...it smarts something fierce! is there anything you can do to make the next 2 weeks go by faster....this waiting is killin' me....JK...thanks again,

adam

[pudder]

I sort of like the e-clips. I have a nice little tool to get them off so they weren't a problem for me.

[MagicD]

If the TI Turnbuckle kit for the B3 is any indication, the cost savings of a kit over buying 3 sets of 2 is only about $3.

Which are better, the AE or Lunsford Ti Turnbuckles. Price is about the same, but the AE ones look cooler because they're blue. Any reason to go with the Lunsfords instead?

I think I'm gunna go ahead and buy a set of turnbuckles this week at my LHS so I can be sure to have them ready when the kit arrives.

[k_sw31]

MagicD, I dont think it really matters if you get the lunsford or AE ones, I haven't had a problem with either of them, all though the lunsford units seem a bit beefier, the AE ones hold up fine, and they are blue :)

I'd like to have some TI hingepins to build with my kit...for insurance ...:)

[adam lancia]

i like the lunsford ones because of the larger square area for the turnbuckle wrench...i really like the positive fit that exists between the wrench and the turnbuckle. makes adjustments very easy,

adam

[RCPhan]

Hey all,

Being away from the scene for a while now, I have started to notice something that I can't quite figure out. If you look at the top view of the B4 you see that the battery is soldered directly to the speed control... How does this work? How does one recharge the battery? Do you have to un-solder it every time? Sorry if this is a stupid question, its just that I have been seeing this a lot lately. I assume it allows better electrical connectivity over conectors!? What types of connectors do you all recommend for someone that does not want to use the direct solder approach. Also, do you recomend using connectors on the wires from speed controler to motor?

Thanx,

Rob

[k_sw31]

That is called hardwireing, racers do it for minimum electrical resistance, but isn't really necessary unless your into hard core racing, I recommend deans plug, they have ultra low resistance, and work great :)

[pudder]

I like the AE turnbuckles over the lundsford because they are blue. Otherwise, I really don't care, I find them both easy to work on and never had any durability problems with them.

[Kdonks]

RcPhan,

k_man got the main reason for hardwiring but here is more on it. The battery is unsoldered and taken out of the car for charging. They get the low resistance by not using any connectors and by making the wires as short as possible.

[MagicD]

TPhalen,

A couple of pages back in this thread you said that you planned to have a full production car for youself by early this week. I was wondering if that goal was actually accomplished and if so, have you driven it yet??

Is the end of Feb still looking good for a release?

Happy Racing!

[AssociatedRacer]

Hey, everyone laughs when i said AE said its coming out by end of feb, and say they always say that and ship 6 months later.:(

[AssociatedKing]

does anyone know if they are going to come out with a conversion kit to make a B3 into a B4? because i just finished my B3 a couple of months ago and i am about to start racing it? and i dont want to have to buy another kit and just have one buggy sitting around. if they dont then i guess ill just have to dish out the money!

[pudder]

I don't think they are making a conversion, the two cars are way too different. I wouldn't worry about getting a B4 so soon, see how you do with the B3 first. After all, it is mostly the driver.

[psycho02]

Originally posted by pudder
I don't think they are making a conversion, the two cars are way too different. I wouldn't worry about getting a B4 so soon, see how you do with the B3 first. After all, it is mostly the driver.


exactly pudder I have been saying it on these boards since I started posting on them. Drivers win races not cars.

[Kdonks]

It's almost the last week in february. Any updates on the release date? Delays? Inquiring minds want to know.

[RichieRich]

Yeah, what he said!!

[the turd]

tick, tock, tick, tock, cough, tick, cough, tock, sniffle, tick, shuffle, tock, stomp, tick, scratch, tock. museum sounds...a good way to express what waiting for a kit is like. TTT

[k_sw31]

on the plus side you get a lot of scratching in.........*scratch scratch* *cough* *sneeze*.....

Maybe I can teach myself how to suck fart!

[the turd]

man, im tired of waiting. i was going to go to my LHS today for the ESC, reciever, motor, and servo but my dad said gas is too expensive ($2 a gallon). kinda odd that, we have a car that goes 25 miles a gallon and its only about a 15 mile round trip. i think it was just an excuse. on the plus side i fixed my micro for a little bit:D

[speedydave]

The LHS is going to call me when they get their first 4 in, and will set one aside for me. :D Do you guys know how much they will be selling for where you are? The manager at the lhs said they'll be $190 here. Not bad, considering it's one of the first four of the kit they are getting in stock. :)

[pudder]

Hmm, I'm guessing maybe around 400$ from my track here. (Canada you know, stupid prices)

I already know of a few people at the track who are going to order one as soon as they are available.

[the turd]

http://www.smm3g.com/B4/B4.htm

what is a smacktard?

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by speedydave
The LHS is going to call me when they get their first 4 in, and will set one aside for me. :D Do you guys know how much they will be selling for where you are? The manager at the lhs said they'll be $190 here. Not bad, considering it's one of the first four of the kit they are getting in stock. :)

I pre-ordered mine from stormer hobbies at 200$, 190$ sounds like a good price :)

[the turd]

how much was insurance for the kit from stormers?

[k_sw31]

I didn't see an insurance option when I ordered it, I think it was automatically included wiht the order/shipping costs. From what I have heard stormer is a good place so I am not all that worried....:)

[Kdonks]

smacktard - noun. Smack talking retard.

[Downforce]

For you AE guys that have that craving for a 4wd buggie. I seen a few of you were asking for one. There is a conversion kit out there for the TC3. It's called the TC3 "O".

http://www.rcproductdesigns.com/

[Downforce]

Originally posted by Downforce
For you AE guys that have that craving for a 4wd buggie. I seen a few of you were asking for one. There is a conversion kit out there for the TC3. It's called the TC3 "O".

http://www.rcproductdesigns.com/

OOPS! Maybe I should scroll down the thread page and see a whole tread on this car. My Bad.

[RoachRacing]

OK, where is my b4?

TPhalen - hows yours and when does production start to roll.

[MagicD]

Yeah it's getting down to the wire here...there are only 4 1/2 days left of Feb, and the news updates from the insiders have beend nonexistant in the last week. I would think that if it's comming this week then we'd have at least heard that the design has finished, production on the first run has completed and the kits have been shipped out the door.

I have a feeling that the end of February will come and go and we'll still be waiting...

[RoachRacing]

The date that I have been hearing is March 15th, which sucks. but I can wait. I guess I really dont have an option. :)

Dont you love AE's ad for the b4 in caraction "good things come to those who wait"

Well I have been waiting for a couple years now. Ever since I saw the b3x with solid plastic molded rear a-arms. And they told me back then, soon.

[RCPhan]

Where was that ad? Was it in the March issue? I guess I missed it!

[RoachRacing]

It was in the new issue, front half of the magazine. It is at home so I dont know exactly where.

[drumr racer]

I subscribe 2, and I tried my best with a razor-blade 2 cut it out, now it's taped together on the back, on my wall. Along with the RCX poster, and the Pro-line one, and the sweet 1:8 Ofna American body, two of them if u know what I mean (okay, it may b a bikini)

The B4 page is in April issue between the last half of the HPI savage and the super sport brushless on pages 22-23, and I am 90% sure this is where it is because I had to really cut up my book.

[AssociatedRacer]

Originally posted by RoachRacing
The date that I have been hearing is March 15th, which sucks. but I can wait. I guess I really dont have an option. :)

Dont you love AE's ad for the b4 in caraction "good things come to those who wait"

Well I have been waiting for a couple years now. Ever since I saw the b3x with solid plastic molded rear a-arms. And they told me back then, soon.

Thats the exact thing the XXXS said before it came out.

[Mystracing]

I got my B4; oh.... sorry I was just dreaming again.

[Maxxcrazy]

I'm gonna get em as soon as it comes out. March 15 right? can't wait....

[RichieRich]

According to the AE website, the B4 should be released the second week of March. :(

[Mystracing]

Can't belive they're using NTC3 hinge pins. I bent the heck out of the ones on my electric Tc3. Pretty scarry but I guess I'll just have to have faith that it will work.

[k_sw31]

I dont see where it says it uses NTC3 hingepins, but I think they should be okay, the NTC3 ones might be a little more beefed up to take the power...

[Mystracing]

I have the parts list and was cross referencing the numbers. They're the same diameter as the electric tc3 pins, I never bent one on my nitro car but I never wrecked it hard. At least I have a bunch of spares already.

[k_sw31]

I think most AE hingepins have the same diameter, I never had a problem with the steel units in my T3 (I had a few bent ones...) but I upped to Ti because they were cheap, besides, they are only 15$ :)

[DLF]

Odd...I've never bent or broke one on my B3.

[k_sw31]

Yes, but was your B3 ever on a half pipe like my T3 was, with some inexperienced drivers at the wheel? :p I went through lots of rear a arm mounts that way too :)

[DLF]

Now, I never said I was an expert driver. I should have bought rear arm mounts in bulk from AE! :D

[k_sw31]

Yeah, I bought the RPM ones after I went through about 4 sets :p

[pudder]

I got the RPM ones after I broke the first set on my T3. Haven't broken a part since.

[Mystracing]

The touring car hinge pins are .096" diameter, the offroad pins are .125" diameter. The titanium hinge pins for the touring cars bend worse than the steel ones. At least lunsfords do.

I'm mostly just surprised, I have bent a lot of hinge pins over the years on both the on and off road cars. On the off road cars usually not enough you can see the bend without rolling it on a flat surface but it just takes a little to bind the suspension. When you break one of the suspension mounts it almost always results in a bent hinge pin on a TC3, titanium or not.

[ole]

does the b4 buggy have interchangeable (no left and right) arms , front and rear hub carriers?

[RoachRacing]

From the looks of it the front arms should be interchangable, but not the rears. The rear arms have an angle up on the end of the arm. if you put the arm on the wrong side it would angle down not up and wouldnt fit.

not sure about the hub carriers.

[bubblejunky]

Does anyone know how the B4 fared at the winterchamps?

[wcoyote_racer]

Well straight off the Losi website: Losi 5 TQs and 5 wins. 2wd modified (xxx, xxx, b3) 2wd stock (xxx, b3, xxx) So unless some of those B3's were diguised B4's, the B4 was not raced at the winterchamps, and none (B3, B4) won or TQed in the A mains. Not one of the best defining moments in Associated history.

[wcoyote_racer]

Here's a thought maligned by those of us waiting for the B4. I noticed while searching the race dates that the IMFAR World Champs Warmup race is in early April. It got me thinking. Would Associated delay the release date of the B4 just to see if it wins the warmup race? That way, they could proclaim it as the World Champs Warmup champion on the box? It would be a major selling point. It would also mean another delay for the B4. :(
Sorry if this stirs the rumor mill again.
The AE site says second week of March. That would be a way that AE makes sure that there are not only the known racers driving the B4 at that time, but average people like us too.

[j. sorwell]

rumor has been for a while now that the car will debut at the cactus classic, and it lookk like this will be the case. Personally, i can't wait.

[drumr racer]

The Cactus Classic is my home track, but I have 2 go on a cruise spring break

Wahwahwahwahwahwah:(

[k_sw31]

You know you are anxious to get your B4 kit when you see the FED EX truck pulling up the neighbors drive way and you get excited....even though it is coming UPS (or USPS not sure exactly, but not fed ex :p)

[drumr racer]

Mister Rogers died today.
It's sad, I used to watch him as a kid.

[k_sw31]

At tower thy have a ton of parts listed for the B4, and they are all really cheap, like a arms for 5 $...etc... Now would probably be a good time to preorder stuff...eh...just a thought

[drumr racer]

All these twelve years of waiting, y not wait 4 a Factory Team kit?

[mtn bkr]

Well, I got a first-hand look at the B4 today. Definitely one nice looking product. It definitely looks like it runs pretty well. Sure can't wait to get one once it's released.

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by drumr racer
All these twelve years of waiting, y not wait 4 a Factory Team kit?
I dont want a factory team kit, the blue screws break to easily, and I'm happy with the price as it is :)

[psycho02]

Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
Well straight off the Losi website: Losi 5 TQs and 5 wins. 2wd modified (xxx, xxx, b3) 2wd stock (xxx, b3, xxx) So unless some of those B3's were diguised B4's, the B4 was not raced at the winterchamps, and none (B3, B4) won or TQed in the A mains. Not one of the best defining moments in Associated history.

Where at on the site? I could'nt find anything on the winterchamps the last race update looks to be about one of there boys winning a nitro race. If u are talking the crcrc winter midwest race there were no b4's at that race.

[pudder]

Originally posted by k_sw31
I dont want a factory team kit, the blue screws break to easily, and I'm happy with the price as it is :)

How the heck do you break the screws? I have never had one break, and had only one strip on me...

[k_sw31]

...and a lot of people ask me how I break a T3 chassis...twice. And I reply "pure skill". :p

Take a steel screw and a blue screw and some wire cutters. Try and cut the blue screw, now try and cut the black one...you'll see my point. For the most part, I myself need strong stuff :)

[drumr racer]

Do u think that Team Associated, put the B4 in a wind tunnel, testing boddies to test which desighn has the best aerodynamics

[k_sw31]

A body on a buggy wont do a whole lot for aerodynamics anyways...because you have the front shock tower disrupting the airflow, so you can get 'true' results...

[drumr racer]

then how does Team Losi know that the Phobia body is aerodynamic?

[drumr racer]

I have another question. Would the Factory Team kit weigh less than the regular Team kit.

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by drumr racer
then how does Team Losi know that the Phobia body is aerodynamic?

Because of a little thing called "marketing" :p

It will probably weigh less, but nothing significant...if your looking for weight savings then your best off buying small radio gear and escs...

[psycho02]

The factory team b3 was a significant enough difference that I had to add 4 ounces to make the car legal weight and that was with standard sized electronics. Same with the t3. So I don't know about the b4 but I know the b3 was about 4 ounces lighter.

[aspiringrcracer710]

Originally posted by wcoyote_racer
Well straight off the Losi website: Losi 5 TQs and 5 wins. 2wd modified (xxx, xxx, b3) 2wd stock (xxx, b3, xxx) So unless some of those B3's were diguised B4's, the B4 was not raced at the winterchamps, and none (B3, B4) won or TQed in the A mains. Not one of the best defining moments in Associated history.


What is your source for those results wcoyote, because according to THIS website: http://www.geocities.com/jinsoncollins/wc2003entry.html


They never even HAPPENED!:mad:

[wcoyote_racer]

2002 winterchamps. Look under race results on the losi web site www.teamlosi.com and look under 2002 race results. The 2003 have not been run yet.

[wcoyote_racer]

I was not aware that the 2003 winterchamps were cancelled until I saw your link. I figured they had not been run as of yet. Thus 2002 is the only results you'll see.

[psycho02]

Well there were definitely no b4's at the 2002 winterchamps I doubt that there were even any b3x's there.

[wcoyote_racer]

Hence my comment on seriously doubting there were any b4s in those races even as a prototype disguised as a b3.

[psycho02]

Oh i see I interpreted your post as to be saying that there WERE b4's in the race and that they did not fare well against the losi's. Lets be honest though I don't believe that this new car will make a huge impact on race results because Losi still has 5 quality drivers for every 1 driver that associated sends to the races. It is more the associated policy of not paying guys to drive that has made their team dwindle and Losi's policy to pay guys to drive that has made their team grow. It is hard to compete like that when u are outnumbered. I don't feel bad for associated though they created "big team" rc racing in the 80's so it is like the monster that they created is coming back to bite them in the butt.


And oh yeah I still can't wait for them to ship the b4 I have had mine on order since the chicago rctha show:D

[Lapster]

Hey guys..... i am joing the B4 thread. I just ordered my B4 like 10 minutes ago. YAY!!!:cool:

[momosport]

Im excited about the new B4. Unfortunately I have a TON of b3 spares i need to get rid of, including a B3. my understanding is NONE of the parts interchange? so my CVDs won't work?

One of my local tracks heavily favors Losi, so I am one of the few Die hard AE guys. Its always good to show up the Losi guys.

I agree, perhaps Losi's strategy of paying people isn't a good thing. Too many people ( younger kids) who drive pretty well think they can pick up sponcership. Its not easy, i wouldn't want the pressure.

Im sure it will be a seesaw battle w/ AE winning for a bit, and Losi winning a bit


MOmo

[pudder]

I think I'll probably end up getting a B4 around the end of the school year. :rolleyes: Last year I got a FT T3. :)

I love getting spoiled. ;)

[wcoyote_racer]

Hey psycho,
The way I decided on my 4WD car was by taking the race results of all the cars in the a main and then doing an overall average of the finishes. The one that seemed to get the higher constant average is the one I bought. Hence if AE finished 1st, 5th, and 8th then I would do the average of that for the overall manufacturer finish which would be 14/3 = 4.6. Thinking Losi had the other cars (2nd, 3rd, 4th, and so on) = 5.85. Thus AE had the better showing overall with fewer cars. Concievibly a car that finishes in the top five whether it wins or not, could have a higher average if it only has one car in the race than all the other cars totaled. That way, it kind of factors out the "who finishes first all the time" Which so many people tend to do. BTW I was top of my class with the car I picked. Although I've been out of racing for 10 years, I'm starting soon with a new car. Based on using those same results.

[RoachRacing]

That seems like a lot of work to figure out what car to buy. ;)

Here's my method:

1. I see what is available.

2. See what most of the people at my local track drive.

3. Look to see what my friends are driving. (2 heads are better then one for setups)

4. See what the shop supports (Has the most parts for)

The thing about picking a car/truck by what’s winning, that car might not be supported where you race. But even looking over those guidelines, I think it really just comes down personal preference. :D

[DLF]

Here's how I decide:

I buy the one I like.

And I like and want a B4!!! :D

[wcoyote_racer]

The 2003 Inagurual Southwest Indoor GranPrix:
2WD modified: Losi XXX TQed and took 1st and 2nd place With AE B4's taking 3rd and 4th. B3x took 7th. Ryan Cavalieri (TQ), Brian Kinwald and Travis Amezcua took the top three.

2WD Stock: Losi XXX taking 1st and 4th with AE B4's taking 2nd and 5th and B3s (B3x, B3) taking 3rd and 7th. Ricky Gaynor, Bent Theilke (TQ) and Billy Fisher top three.

So for those of you who read between the lines, the B4 didn't win but had it's first TQ in it's first outing that I have record of. Thought you would be interested

[wcoyote_racer]

Where I live the thought of which car has more support does not apply. Both get equal. One rack of AE front and back, and one rack of Losi front and back, not including hop ups from other companies. On the losi website there are pics of the drivers and their cars. I couldn't enlarge them, but you can tell them apart.

[MagicD]

AE's website says that the B4 is now available for viewing in their display case. So if anyone lives in Costa Mesa or the surrounding towns wants to get an advanced look at the buggy, they say your are welcome to stop by. The AE offices are here:

Associated Electrics, Inc.
3585 Cadillac Ave.
Costa Mesa, CA 92626-1401

And hey, bring a camera for us poor folks that don't live in CA :)

[speedydave]

I was at Hobby Town on Saturday, and I asked when they expect the B4's to come in, and they said a week or two, so I'm eagerly awaiting my phone call from them telling me my B4 is in. I can't wait! I set AE's B4 wallpaper to my wallpaper and all. This buggy is going to rock! :D

Oh yeah, and you can't really pick a car by how well it does in races. First off, this buggy is too new for people to really know how to set it up and know how it drives. Second, it's not always the car that wins the race, but the driver. You have to keep in mind all the variables that are all being put into play when a race is going on. It's not JUST the car.

[speedydave]

Originally posted by momosport
Im excited about the new B4. Unfortunately I have a TON of b3 spares i need to get rid of, including a B3. my understanding is NONE of the parts interchange? so my CVDs won't work?

As far as I've heard, the rear end of the B4 has wider arms, so the CVD's would need to be longer too, so from what I understand, no, the CVD's won't work. I'm willing to bed the shocks carried over though! :p

[adam lancia]

as far as i know, the front shocks MAY have carried over but hte rear shocks are a new length specific to the B4...lots of change goin' on...

adam

[Mystracing]

Adam is correct, the front shocks are the same. The rear shaft is 1.02" stroke, or in simple terns the T3 front shaft. The shock body has a new number so one would assume it's a new part specific to the B4 (#9661 if anyone cares)

[mtn bkr]

There's been 2 B4s seen at my local track so far. Billy Easton was up here racing this past weekend, and the owner of the track has his now. I asked Easton how the car was, and he said it's much easier to drive than the B3 is.

[momosport]

I was afraid of that. i REALLY wanted to be able to interchange some parts. OH WELL!

Im excited, I have my mom trying to sell one of my RCs so if my B3 sells, I'll go put down $$ for a B4. Im excited. One of my LHSs is getting 10 in, I think.

I can't wait. Between the B4 and a TC3 O my AE arsenal will be in full effect.


MOmo

[RoachRacing]

the front wheels will be the same :)

[gubby]

what kind of rear tires come with the kit? i know they are proline but what style? bow tie, step pin? Thanks
oh, and i am the turd. i never liked that name

[pudder]

I think they are the new pro-line tires they just came out with... I think they are called "Evil Twin" or someting.

[k_sw31]

I dont want blue groove tires...I want step pins!

[kyle stallings]

kits are gonna be with hole shots

[k_sw31]

I like the new LugNuts :)

[kyle stallings]

i do believe that the lug nuts are only for trucks as of right now.

[k_sw31]

yes I know, but, as soon as the come out for buggies I am gonna get some :)

[adam lancia]

RoachRacing:

actually the front wheels are also wider...i called associated about it cause i'm in the same boat as momo, having a bunch of B3 spares, tires included.

adam

[aspiringrcracer710]

Only about a week to go! B4 is coming... Hey, if there are any AE guys on this thread, is there a T4 prototype in the cards? a TC4 prototype?

[RCPhan]

I have noticed that TPhalen has not been on in a while... he must be busy getting last second preparations done before the release!

[drumr racer]

Originally posted by aspiringrcracer710
Only about a week to go! B4 is coming... Hey, if there are any AE guys on this thread, is there a T4 prototype in the cards? a TC4 prototype?

Earlier on this forum, TPhalen said after the B4 was gonna be out, Team Associated will be working on "BFT" (AE's new monster truck. TPhalen hasn't said on this thread that he has even heard a mention from his companions of the T4. So, it leads to suspison that the T4 thing is a rumor.

[RichieRich]

Guys, Tower has lowered their price on the B4 to a more reasonable $189.99

Additionally, if you use the coupon mentioned on their main page, you'll only pay $174.99

Sounds like the best deal so far.

[k_sw31]

Lol, you can tell tower is starting their description from a tamiya product, it says it will include a motor and an msc. Plus it says "EATURES: Chassis: (Plastic Tub, Aluminum, Graphite)(TL01, TB01, Type-R)" :p

[Hobbytown Racer]

heres a pic of Mark Pavidis car....



http://www.paranormals.com/temp3/pavidis75/B4.jpg

[RoachRacing]

Originally posted by Hobbytown Racer
heres a pic of Mark Pavidis car....



:eek: Can you say DROOL! :D

[wcoyote_racer]

Is it just me, or does that car have the front springs clamped down way far down compaired to most setups? And are those clip/quick adjusters?

[RoachRacing]

They do look rather far down. They do look like the quick clip spacers.

[TPhalen]

The B4 will come with M3 Holeshots in the rear and wide body M3 4 rib fronts.

aspiringrcracer710: That was a funny question. As a note, IF we decide to start on a 'T4' or another TC prototype vehicle, it would be just that....a prototype. And it would be very secretive for quite awhile. The 'prototyping stage' is a long process. There is alot involved and any new vehicle could go through quite a few 'first run' changes. I've seen some pretty interesting 'first edition' vehicles in the R&D room...things that we start out with but soon change into something else....something better.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that when we start a new project, the only way anyone will know about it is if it is seen accidentally.

Marks car looks awesome, huh??? Gotta love it!

[gubby]

but it will be worth it in the end. i like how marks car looks, i never get that into painting bodies...i keep it simple. im gonna paint my b4 red or slime green or daytona yellow with a black wing.

[drumr racer]

Hey maybee Mark Pavidas had really soft springs up front.

[drumr racer]

Hey It's late and I'm supposed 2 go to bed, but I had a proposition with my parents.

I have a really big science project that's worth like five hundred points.

This is how it works The grade is at the left, and the prize is at the right.

A+ = B4 with 100 dollars of acessories.

A = B4

A- = hop-up parts for both of my cars ($150)

B = Replacement parts for both of my cars [XXTCR, T2 ($100)]

C =replacement parts for the T2

D = my dad gets to take away any wanted privileges

F = all of my privilleges get taken away (I have nothing in my room except a bed, and a desk) I have everything taken away, and put into boxes, my computer, my drumset, my keyboard, my cars, my Nintendo, my Captain Underpants books...

[pudder]

That's harsh.

One of my friends has had his T3 confiscated for over a month now because of something he didn't do and his mom wouldn't listen to him.

[Lapster]

I ordered my B4 from stormer hobbies about 2 weeks ago. They said they have no clue when they will get them in. I want to e-mail AE but cannot find an email address. Do you guys know when the B4 will hit the stores?

[RoachRacing]

I have heard that most of the team drivers will be getting theirs the week before or right before cactus. Which is the weekend of the 22nd 23rd.

So i would think that around the date the keep saying, the 15th.

[pudder]

Tough call between B4 and B3 for me. I did fall upon a good deal of a LOADED B3, so I can't pass it up.

Maybe I'll get a B4 in a few years. ;)

[drumr racer]

Yes
I just got my reaserch paper don with an a
I'm 1/3 the way there (at least I won't get an F Woo):cool:

[drumr racer]

Originally posted by pudder
Tough call between B4 and B3 for me. I did fall upon a good deal of a LOADED B3, so I can't pass it up. yeah I found a B3 on Ebay that was hopped up the wazoo

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by drumr racer
Hey It's late and I'm supposed 2 go to bed, but I had a proposition with my parents.

I have a really big science project that's worth like five hundred points.

This is how it works The grade is at the left, and the prize is at the right.

A+ = B4 with 100 dollars of acessories.

A = B4

A- = hop-up parts for both of my cars ($150)

B = Replacement parts for both of my cars [XXTCR, T2 ($100)]

C =replacement parts for the T2

D = my dad gets to take away any wanted privileges

F = all of my privilleges get taken away (I have nothing in my room except a bed, and a desk) I have everything taken away, and put into boxes, my computer, my drumset, my keyboard, my cars, my Nintendo, my Captain Underpants books...

After three years of honor roll grades, the only thing I have gotten is a reedy quasar pro and now a B4.

[Lapster]

Guess what I have gotten for all my life of strait A's or all a's a B...

















NOTHING!!!

[k_sw31]

haha. ;)

[pudder]

For some reason in English class I have 100%. Not my usual 60's and 70's.

And of course the two classes I just know I am getting good marks on, the only two in the shops...

Metals and Power Mechanics!. :D

[drumr racer]

If you go to Ebay and battery operated they already have B4s, but they are like 190 dollars with fifteen dollar tax. If your lhs is gonna sell your B4 for 205 bucks or more, you should check it out

[drumr racer]

I guess for some reason, my parents try to make me get good grades. And they don't like me getting the bad grades I'm getting. I wonder...

[Kdonks]

Knowledge should be its own reward.

[wcoyote_racer]

Hey drum,

Look closer. The ones on ebay are going for 199.95 with a buy it now for 249. And they mention that they are awaiting the kits too.
I would never buy from someone on ebay that does not have the product in their hands. A lot of fraud happens that way. And considering where most places will be selling the kits for 189-199, the instant someone outbids you on it, you could easily be above 225 or more. Someone is dreaming and hoping that the uninformed will be suckered in on it.