Team Associated B4 buggy forum v1.0

[StevePond]

Information is scarce right now, but word has it that Team Associated will be displaying a newly designed B4 racing buggy.

PeteV adds: Cliff Lett gave us some personal notes on the car; they follow Steve's original posting:

Here's what we know so far:

The car will include a Stealth transmission with a 2.6:1 internal ratio. The transmission is also more layed-down for a lower center of gravity, which is further enhanced by a lower motor mounting position.
Lower battery position for lower center of gravity to improve cornering.
Forward swept front suspension arms similar to the famous "Stealth car" prototype used by Masami Hirosaka to win the IFMAR Worlds. This reportedly improves bump handling over the B3 design.
Another feature that you might recognize from the Stealth car is the shocks are mounted behind the front shock tower.
Captured hinge pins eliminate the need for those annoying and frequently lost E-clips used on the hinge pins of the current model.
Dual disc slipper for improved traction control on slippery surfaces and to protect the transmission and drive hardware against hard shocks in very high bite conditions.
The wheelbase has been lenghtened for added straight-line stability.
The rear motor guard is now molded composite instead of aluminum, which reduces weight and is able to flex under impact, where the old aluminum design would sustain permanent damage.


This is all the information we have at the moment, but Team Associated was rumored to be preparing a prototype to display at the show, so we'll post some shots provided there's something for us to shoot at the show.

CLIFF NOTES!

Associated RC10B4
Associated brought this stunning B4 prototype to Chicago. The all-new design recycles none of the B3's parts, and is Associated's most inspired buggy design to date. Here are the primary features, straight from designer Cliff Lett's mackin' Sony Vaio laptop:

-- New 2.6:1 reduction “Stealth” transmission. Uses the same higher torque capacity differential from the RC10GT. Entire transmission assembly has been optimized into a ultra compact package and is now a integral part of the chassis/suspension structure

-- Double-sided slipper clutch assembly. Higher torque capacity, double-sided slipper assembly. This provides a finer adjustment range and more efficient slipper operation.

-- Super low center of gravity. The motor, battery, body, wing and even shocks have much lower mounting positions. This gives the B4 buggy a much lower CG for higher cornering speeds and more stability when jumping and tackling bumpy sections.

-- New front and rear wheels. The front wheel is stiffer and has a new offset, and uses wide body-type. The new rear wheel is now interchangeable with other manufacturer’s buggies--now spec tires can be pre-mounted and standardized for the most popular racing buggies.

-- Longer MIP CVD axles. Longer CVD dog bones and axles have been designed into the rear suspension to push the B4 out to maximum legal width and also increase rear traction.

-- Optimized front suspension/steering assembly. The new “forward swept” front suspension was designed in conjunction with the “co-planer” Ackerman steering geometry. This new suspension design provides maximum front end clearance and minimum bump-steer while maintaining correct buggy Ackerman settings.

-- Inline or trailing front axles. Either inline or trailing front axle steering blocks can be used while maintaining correct axle and Ackerman positions.

-- Symmetrical suspension arm design with captured hinge pins. All four suspension arms are the same length. All of the suspension hinge pins are captured so that no e-clips are used.

-- Most adjustable RC10 ever. All suspension settings have easy access. The upper suspension arms have vertical ball studs front and rear so that fine roll center and camber rise changes can be made.

-- Impact absorbing wing mounts. The rear wing has to impact-absorbing mounts which also serve as structure to the rear suspension assembly. The wing angle is also adjustable.

[ATeam]

GREAT NEWS!!!

Thanks SteveP

Its about time the A Team released another buggy!

Two things can be for sure, it will be well made and it will be FAST!

Associated sure has been busy as of late. Nitro TC3, BFT Monster, and the B4. Not to keep beating the dead horse but think we'll ever see a 4wd buggy?

Oh, and Steve.... LETS SEE SOME PICTURES!! GET ON THE BALL, WORK WORK WORK!!! PRONTO!!!

[ttweedle]

this is the best news! Now I can start saving my money for The New B4 and T4, cause everybody knows that the T4 will be here in about another 6months to a year? I hope its not longer than that.

[RichieRich]

Finally! I can't wait to get one. I'll be first in line.

[TUCRACEMAN]

Great news! I'll start saving my pennies. Gotta let the big bro go first, so I'll be second in line.

[grimlock3000]

I am glad to have some verification on this after more than a year of B3X/B4 speculation. As soon as tower put up the part number I am going to place an order and wait until they get the kits in stock :)

[Crashmaxx]

Does it look like you will be able to upgrade a T3 to a T4 or are the not compadible?

[Taz_S]

Originally posted by Crashmaxx
Does it look like you will be able to upgrade a T3 to a T4 or are the not compadible?

I like to know that too.

[RC10T3]

sounds just like a losi. Oh well, at least its a new Associated, thank God!
I hope that it has more innovative components, like the shock body extensions on the BFT like Progressive makes. That would be sweet.

[violator757]

i gotta start saving my pennies if im gonna buy a new monster gt and a b4 lol and i think ill start saving for a t4 when ever they come out if they do lol

[aspiringrcracer710]

Now I have a use for that money I keep under my bed at home! I am gonna preorder one of those if I can!

[violator757]

Originally posted by aspiringrcracer710
Now I have a use for that money I keep under my bed at home! I am gonna preorder one of those if I can!


lmao whats you addy again lol i seem to umm misplaced it yeah yeah thats it i forgot to write it down last time we talked lol j/k

[jeepinator]

Originally posted by RichieRich
Finally! I can't wait to get one. I'll be first in line. Too late, already there :)

[Taz_S]

Originally posted by ATeam
GREAT NEWS!!!

Thanks SteveP

Its about time the A Team released another buggy!

Two things can be for sure, it will be well made and it will be FAST!

Associated sure has been busy as of late. Nitro TC3, BFT Monster, and the B4. Not to keep beating the dead horse but think we'll ever see a 4wd buggy?

Oh, and Steve.... LETS SEE SOME PICTURES!! GET ON THE BALL, WORK WORK WORK!!! PRONTO!!!

Keep beating that horse ATeam keep beating it. It would be nice to see a RC10FW4 "Four Wheel Drive"

[kickazzdan]

i hope that ae produces the monster gt soon because i want to get one

[OrcSlayer]

So does this mean the GT will be updated in any way? I was all set to get a RTR. Any chance there will be a Nitro buggy? Even better, a Nitro 4wd buggy?

[Taz_S]

Originally posted by OrcSlayer
So does this mean the GT will be updated in any way? I was all set to get a RTR. Any chance there will be a Nitro buggy? Even better, a Nitro 4wd buggy?

I bet you not see a 1/10 gas buggy but i would love to see "beside the 4wd elce buggy" is a 1/8th off and on-road gas from AE.

[kickazzdan]

the monster gt is the monster truck that ae is producing soon also the gt was just updated from the gt to the gt plus rtr dan

[integra d12]

4WD buggy WE NEED A 4WD buggy..... I have heard some stuff bounceing around that they are releasing a 1:18 car aswell this weekend.....tc3M hmmm....

[Taz_S]

Yea it wird that AE won 2 world with 1/8th IC on-road and stop make the cars.

[StevePond]

Here's some shots of the buggy finally!

[StevePond]

Front suspension

[TUCRACEMAN]

OHH MY GOD! I'm in love...wow...nice!

[StevePond]

Rear suspension

[ATeam]

WHOA BABY!!!! THAT IS ONE BAD MAMA JAMA!!!!

Way to go Steve!!! I love you man!

[StevePond]

Motor plate/rear guard

[RichieRich]

WOW! I like it. It has very interesting shock towers. I like the motor guard design. It's like an Ultima RB Type R. Hopefully, this will be available around Christmas? I mean from a business standpoint, that would be smart, right?

[ATeam]

I like how the rear suspension arms are angled close to the tires. Not sure what it does, I'm guessing lowers the center of gravity a little? It looks cool though.

[ATeam]

After looking closer those angled arms look to allow the rear end to sit lower, but still keep the arms in a level position. Very good idea indeed.

hey Steve lets get a shot of the bottom of the chassis.

[ATeam]

Cliff Lett is an RC Genius!

[StevePond]

more of the front end

[StevePond]

Straight rear shot

[ATeam]

Hey Steve, you may or may not know what this is. If you don't find out. That nob that I highlighted, next to where the body clip is. To me it looks like it was made for an opening to possibly adjust the servo saver. Think thats what it is or is it anything at all?

[StevePond]

Will do. We have the car coming back from the booth for a bottom shot of the chassis, so I'll ask when it gets here.

[ATeam]

Thanks Steve. If you see Cliff them him, "You da man!"

Could it be that Associated came out with a car that will get me back into electric off-road?? Time will tell.

[Moo-Shoe]

It seems the only thing missing on the B4 is threaded shock bodies. I wonder why AE hasn't gone to threaded bodies on their off road vehicles?

[ATeam]

By the way is RC10B4 the official name of this vehicle?

[ATeam]

Originally posted by Moo-Shoe
It seems the only thing missing on the B4 is threaded shock bodies. I wonder why AE hasn't gone to threaded bodies on their off road vehicles?

After thinking about this for a while. I would say that the reason they are sticking with preload spacers is this. For the average racer its more convienent to use spacers. Its a fool proof way to get the same amount of preload on each shock, being either both fronts or both rears. Also when your not racing at the highest levels of cometition your driver error will negate any advantage your more adjustable threaded body shocks will give you.

Thats what I think anyway.

[Moo-Shoe]

Ok, call me silly, but I'm also curious as to how the body will mount on this new chasis of theirs. I see one "extra" body clip up above the servo, but I don't see any posts, or body clips on the back end of the buggy. The one up front also seems to be off center.

Did you folks happen to notice that there are two body clips holding down the battery bar? I wonder if this will get modified for production, or will we be using 2 body clips from now on to hold the battery in? Just curious...

[ATeam]

Originally posted by Moo-Shoe
Ok, call me silly, but I'm also curious as to how the body will mount on this new chasis of theirs. I see one "extra" body clip up above the servo, but I don't see any posts, or body clips on the back end of the buggy. The one up front also seems to be off center.

Did you folks happen to notice that there are two body clips holding down the battery bar? I wonder if this will get modified for production, or will we be using 2 body clips from now on to hold the battery in? Just curious...

Looks to me like there is some kind of mounting tab that is part of the rear shock tower. I think... I attached a pic and highlighted the part in question.

[ATeam]

Also Steve, think we can get a shot of her with her clothes on? I mean, I like her naked and all, but lets she what kind of fashion style she has.

[Bodido GT]

Looks really good.

What kind of tires are those? Are they the new Evil twin Pro-Lines?

[TUCRACEMAN]

Take that girl shopping at Protoformstrom...

[Shonuff]

freeking awsome

[aeb3man_44]

WOW! NICE! thanks a bunch Steve for giving us all this AWLSOME info on the great buggy, gee i might have to change my name!


GOOD JOB TEAM ASSOCIATED!

[Taz_S]

Originally posted by Bodido GT
Looks really good.

What kind of tires are those? Are they the new Evil twin Pro-Lines?

they are Square Fuzzie in rear.


Shoot i just pic up a B3 and it look like hardly any thing will work on the B4.

Oh well i all was want a test ride any way.

[badmojo13]

All I can say is bring on the t4. Its about time ae got on the ball and brought out new stuff. A lot of guys at the track I race at are talking about switching to losi but they might change their minds with this great new product from ae

[mazrc10]

MAN! all i can say is, NIIICE! :cool:

I noticed a couple other things. The wheels have alot less offset, much less than the b3, the front axles arent inline with the kingpin, and the steering mechanism is slanted back just like the xxx.

I have been waiting soooo long for this car to come out!! I can remember way back around '89 when they had the stealth car, the front end setup just like this. When the B2 came out i thought it would be heavily stealth influenced, but it looks like the B4 is almost a replica of that stealth car. I NEED IT NOW!

[violator757]

can someone tell me what this thing is thats circled is a a device to hold in the reciver maby or esc or is a a on/off swicth if its a thing to hold on a esc or soemthing souldnt it have two of them cause it lokks like somehting that you screw out to lock the esc or reciver into place some lmk **hint hint** steve p i want answers lol thanks to all

[banditwing]

That is sooooo AWSOME!! I think I might just have to get a T4 when they come out with it. :D

[ATeam]

Originally posted by violator757
can someone tell me what this thing is thats circled is a a device to hold in the reciver maby or esc or is a a on/off swicth if its a thing to hold on a esc or soemthing souldnt it have two of them cause it lokks like somehting that you screw out to lock the esc or reciver into place some lmk **hint hint** steve p i want answers lol thanks to all

Its the on/off switch to the LRP ESC thats in the car

[surfer]

finally, a new buggy from ae, i think i want it

[Moo-Shoe]

Violator, I'm 99% positive that the circled item is the power switch.

Something I noticed while looking at your pic though is that the transmission looks like it is now mounted to the wing mount with a long bolt, a la Losi trannies. As long as the stealth diff is as easy to build and maintain as they are now, I'll be happy. :)

Hmm... I wonder if the diff is now externally adjustable, or if we'll still have to pop out a CVD to adjust the diff via that 5/64 bolt?

[jeepinator]

Wow, HUGE news. A new buggy from AE comes once a decade, if we're lucky :D

Give Cliff a hug for me.

[WheelNut]

The buggy looks nice, pesonally I dont know how strong the non-kingpin ball stud in the front will work. In all my cars I've broke a lot of carriers with that design, but no problems with the previous king pin design. We'll see I guess....

RCCA-I think when you write the article do a side by side picture compairson with the B4 and B3, like you did with the XX-t and the XXX-t. That woudl really cool, its also a very easy way to see how the buggy has been improved.

[Taz_S]

Originally posted by WheelNut

RCCA-I think when you write the article do a side by side picture compairson with the B4 and B3, like you did with the XX-t and the XXX-t. That woudl really cool, its also a very easy way to see how the buggy has been improved.

good idea there but need to see the pic of the B3X too in the article.

[rcboy618]

wow....one word...LOSI..hahaha.


before everyone goes crazy on me, im an associated guy. im just stating the obvious. i dont blame them for using some of losi's idea, it has been proven to work.

[ATeam]

Originally posted by rcboy618
wow....one word...LOSI..hahaha.


before everyone goes crazy on me, im an associated guy. im just stating the obvious. i dont blame them for using some of losi's idea, it has been proven to work.

:rolleyes:

[TheRealDudeman]

I,m a Losi guy went AE then back 2 Losi because i hated working on my B3 and i hate the stupid plastic front wheel nuts

[TUCRACEMAN]

*Dr. Dave says* Are you sure you hate them? Hate is a strong word. You okay there? Didn't think people could get all emotional over wheel nuts. BTW, that car look better and better each time I see it. Also, I think that when they do a comparison, they should but the B4 up against the Aluminum Team Car, The B2, and the B3. Heck, and maybe against an original RC10 also.
~Dave

[ovalnator]

RCboy, actually, back in the late 80s and early 90s, Associated used a prototype car to win back to back worlds (Masami won both). The car featured what would end up as RC10T front and rear arms, long shocks front and rear, and a front end setup very, very similar to what you see on these pages AND on the Losi XXX (front shocks behind the tower, camber rods in front). Althoughtthe main chassis looks very Losi, the suspension idea actually was first used by Associated. Just a little RC history for ya :D

[Maverick Racing]

All i have to say is its about time!

Looks awesome.



Edit: Yo watch the language ok? I and all the other mods are getting sick and tired of seeing you guys find ways to cuss AND get around the language filter

[CrazyAEBoy]

Whoa that is a beauty i love it. the only thing i dont like which i didnt want to say is that they aint factory team shocks that come w/ it unless they switched em but i will probably put on factory team shocks on it when i get it and i'm gonna get it rite away when it comes out.:D Steve nice work on the pics best pics yet and hope u get more of it in action sometime. and i thought that it would be about a few more yrs. till the B4 came out but thanks Associated for bringing it out now cuz now i can get a new veicle cuz i was a truck guy but a few months ago i wanted a buggy so i said i'm waiting for the B4 to come out cuz all my luck i'll buy the B3 and then the B4 will come out and i was about to buy the B4 last month. Thanx again AE and nice shots again STEVE great work.:D

[evaderstrules]

now i don't know what i want an xxx-4 an xxx or a b4 any insight on to which would be better

[kyle stallings]

cliff is the main man in the R and D department but theres also a guy named there by kurt wagner, he worked really hard on the B3X and was at the local track with AE testing all the time, dont forget to say thanks to all of the people who helped work on this project.

kyle stallings
team associated/ reedy/ LRP

[rccadude]

Hey, I saw wing mount on B4. That is similar to Losi XXX buggy's wing mount. I really dont like if B4 is XXX clone. Well, I like B3 buggy very much. I have no problem with it.. I won 2nd place since I was at track for two times. I will wait for more details about B4 in AE webpage then I will consider to get B4.:cool:

[jnegrx]

I want one. Ever since Massami won the Australia Worlds i have been waiting for this car and finally it comes out. For those that say this is a Losi clone, the design team at AE are very talented and they don't need to rip off any other brand. With this car AE will be again the top manufacturer in 2WD. The design of the front susp wasn't used in the Detroit Worlds, there the front shocks were placed in front of the shock tower. Only in Australia this design of the shocks was used.

[IanMan]

violator: It's the On/Off switch for the speedo.

[synapse75]

the front end looks like a vintage "Masami Hirosaka/yokomo" design..

im not big on threaded shocks either, unless you get a new set of shockes each race...

[Chad Phillips]

I have been helping Kurt test the b4 and i have one word for the new car.. INCREDIBLE :D and its not a xxx clone...

[DLF]

I'm somewhat surprised that AE didn't go with captured front wheel bearings like the Losi car. Schumacher was the first company to do that 15 or so years ago and everyone thought it was a great idea. The bearings lasted longer since they weren't tampered with, dropped in the dirt, etc, everytime you took the front wheel off.

Dana F

[windellmc]

Interesting that Schumacher hasn't used that idea for quite some time though.

[DLF]

Heh...good point. Although I'm talking about the old cat...2wd and 4wd off-road. I'm not as familiar with what they are using now.

Dana F

[synapse75]

you can always run a xxx
losi makes good use of it..

[DLF]

Ummm...ok, was that response required?

[LouisB]

I WANT one of those:D but I bought a FTB3 a couple of months ago:mad: Oh well, I'll have to do a huge jump with my B3 (into the sea) and have a reason to buy the new car;)
I can still win with the B3 so i'll get a B4 when I start losing:)

[CalmCyclone]

Originally posted by evaderstrules
now i don't know what i want an xxx-4 an xxx or a b4 any insight on to which would be better

Understand that you won't be able to get the XXX-4 and B4 for a couple of months at least. The B4 hasn't even been officially announced yet, and the XXX-4 was announced earlier this week. If you need immediate gratification, get the XXX or XXX Kinwald Edition.

If you're willing to wait for the other two, the choice depends on what kind of racing occurs at your local track(s). Stadium trucks tend to be the most popular electric class, followed by 2WD buggies. At most tracks, there isn't much turnout for the 4WD class, so you probably wouldn't be racing much.

If you have a local track that has open racing or practice days, then you could still have some fun with a 4WD, but it's not the same as racing.

Ultimately, the choice is yours.


CalmCyclone
R/C veteran, R/C racing newbie

[violator757]

AE OWNZ JOO!!!!!!!:D

[RCBuddha]

Very interesting....Looks like i'm going to finally make my return to Offroad!

Buddha

[rcgary]

Looks like Associated finally made the '91 Worlds Stealth car. The front end geometry looks very similar to what Masami piloted to win that year. Any thoughts?

Gary K.

[ATeam]

Did you forget about the other pics? This native is getting restless.

[synapse75]

rcgary
I was at that race, it was in detroit right..
That is the masami/yok design i was reffering to..

[RC10T3]

I hope that associated includes the Ti turnbuckles, that would be a very wise decision. All in all, it looks sweet. Is it just me, or is the wheelbase LONG? I guess its becuase of the front a-arms, bit looks sweet no matter what.

[rcgary]

I think it was Detroit. That was the one where Kyle Reed was dialed with the first incarnation of the "Double-X", and the RC10's were off the pace until Masami decided to change the shock mounting locations.

[Ben Ellis]

SteveP- Do you thin we can get a pic of the car with the body on? Or have they come up with a body yet?

[evaderstrules]

calm ur right my track doesn't have a 4wd class but i can go down there when the cactis clasic comes but thats once a year.

also i'm not going to but yet so i think i am goin to go for the b4 because i have had experience with ae. right now i am waiting to get a new speedo for my rusty so i can race oval with it.

do u guys think that ae will make an all graphite edition or this an all graphite buggy already?

[soreloser]

I am wondering what the weight of the new B4 will be, looks like it has more plastic on it than befor, will there be no need to add 2 to 3 ounces to make it legal once it is all graphite?

[HammerTime2K4]

I know it's probaby really early, but is there any estimated release date? How about some sort of price? I was going to get a B3, but now that this is here, I'm gonna wait for the B4.
~Cody

[evaderstrules]

i would say christmas or early next year

[danbrad2000]

Intill now ive been lookin at the xxxke. is this goin to be better than the ke. is it cumin out this year?? whats the price goin to be??

[Ben Ellis]

Seems to me a little unsual that a Competitive race company would debute the new car without running it at some big races? I know they have tried some new adjustments at some of the recent nats and worlds, but alot of this car is all new design from the prototype the tried then.


I will be interested to see how this new car will fair up against the Losi's.

Release date- If they don't plan on testing it first, probably this Christmas, or sooner.

[ovalnator]

Um, since they picked up Travis Amezcua (who finished 2nd in all three classes at the mod nats), and having him drive a XXX (which he is used to running) against guys like Mark Pavidas and Billy Easton with the B4, Im sure they will get all the data and info from testing they need. Im sure they have open access to a few tracks (Prolines maybe......). Just food for thought.

[synapse75]

i bet he continues to finish 2nd behind the drivers that beat him, no matter what car he is driving..

[Ben Ellis]

Yes I am sure they have access to private tracks, even public tracks, but I still rest my case that they haven't raced it against the Losi pros, from the looks of it though I would say this new car will fair up against them very well.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, Travis hasn't made the A main since he switched companys? I know he is still getting used to the new car, but I guess he won't have to worry about that now considering the B4 is alot like the Losi's, BRAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The real test will be at the reedy race's and the IFMAR Worlds this upcoming year.

[Hairball]

You're overlooking the most important part of racing.

Its not the car that wins the race, its the driver. Losi pays TOP DOLLAR for their drivers. They have the BEST drivers on the market.

So until AE starts recruiting some serious drivers, they will still get beat by Losi's drivers, not there cars.

[ovalnator]

Dude, tell me Easton and Pavidas arent serious racers and Ill leave the hobby. Pavidas has been a perenial A mainer since the early 90s; onroad, offroad, gas or electric. Hes a world champ, I think that makes him serious enough. As far as Easton goes, its only a matter of time before he wins a worlds, most likely in gas.

[Ben Ellis]

Again I will make my first point.

Amezcau ones one of Losi's BEST, he was in the top 3 in just about every class at every race.

Again I know he is still adjusting, but he has yet to make the A main yet. AE pays just as much for their drivers as Losi does, the only difference, losi has been able to recrute some better drivers.

you can say the Driver is who wins the race(partcialy right) but until you give easton and pavidis a Losi and see how they do, its still the car.

[surfer]

i think its the drivers...associated only sponsers the best people they can find(theres still not a lot off ae drivers out ther) losi on the other hand, sponsers any one that has enough talent to compete,so you cant really say its the cars

[Buff]

I was just at the Chicago Show today and was VERY impressed w/ the refinements that have been put into the B4 (which is going to be the official name....not B3X) and this car is going to rule offroad. I looked the car over up and down inside and out. EVERYTHING has been changed on this car.

For anybody wondering whether any of the new cars' parts will be compatible with a B3 or T3, the answer is no. Almost entirely nothing will be compatible. Even the rear shock bodies and shock shafts are a new length. I was told the length was between the stock 1.02 size and 1.32.....somewhere around 1.18.

This car will also be even much easier to work on. Every major adjustment is out in the open so it's accessible and quickly changed.

In addition, the B4 will also be so adaptable to all tracks. This design seems to incorporate all the good characteristics of the B3, and added many more of it's own. It will have steering like the B3, yet will handle now much like a losi and even better. Extra parts will be available also. There will be two different sets of steering blocks available to adjust the sensitivity/effect of steering. I believe offset steering blocks will be offset from the axle, while optional inline blocks will be an available option. The best of both worlds. The car has an incredible amount of adjustments as opposed to the B3. Anything that has a ball joint mounted, has at least 2 holes. Even the front caster blocks have two adjustments. There has yet to be a body made/designed for the buggy as of yet, which I'm sure is already in the works.

Everything on the car has been designed to lower the center of gravity of the car and also has everything more centered to the middle of the car for better balance w/ cornering and jumping characteristics in mind.

There's so many things you could talk about on this car! I could go on all day. I kept having to be careful not to slobber on it!

Release dates of the car does sound like it will be towards Xmas or very beginning of the new year. I can't wait!!

[synapse75]

BUFF
there have obviously been many changes/improvements.. but how do you know that it will handle better than a Losi XXX?

[Hairball]

Originally posted by Ben Ellis
AE pays just as much for their drivers as Losi does, the only difference, losi has been able to recrute some better drivers.


How about -

Losi has been able to recruit AE's best drivers. Forget that Kinwald used to race for AE?

Drivers win races. And Losi seems to have the best drivers right now. How bout we get all the top drivers together, give them INDENTICAL cars, like, freakin tycos or something, and then see who wins.

I know this will never happen, but its the only way to prove a point.

[Buff]

Buy one when it comes out and I guess you'll have to see for yourself. I'm just very confident. If you had seen the car up close, from which some of the pictures that have been shown on this site can't show quite everything, and talked to Cliff Lett, Sean Cochran and others, it certainly gives you a good feeling.

Associated is back.

[synapse75]

call me a critic.. but just because it has a front end design masami came up with 12 years ago, doesnt make me confident..

[Buff]

Synapse, just because the shocks are behind the shock tower doesn't mean that this was the exact design that was used back on the original stealth car that was used back then. This car is ENTIRELY new.....chassis, front AND REAR suspension, geometry, motor moved forward, LOWER center of gravity....many things. Again, you will see when the car comes out. See for yourself then. We all will.

[Hairball]

Yeah, and its going to save the world too. :p :p

[synapse75]

new is not necessarily better..

[synapse75]

my biggest complaint with the B3, that i dearly hope they changed, was with only two screws holding the front end/bulkhead to the car... i dont think they could of come up with a weaker setup..

[Buff]

Geez...you guys must think the glass is only half empty. My belief is the glass is half full. Something wrong w/ being optimistic? Cliff has yet to design something that was unsuccessful or that didn't exceed the expectations of the previous designs. Maybe I shouldn't have said it's going to be better than the Losi's, but it will certainly be a strong rival. I don't have a reason not to believe the car will be anything but great coming from the genius minds at AE.

[synapse75]

whom exactly desgined the car?

[Buff]

I never had any problems w/ the two screws that hold the bulkhead to the noseplate. However I'm sure the new car will be different considering the new top brace and bulkhead will be one piece. I don't believe I've seen problems w/ any of my teammates B3's w/ the bulkhead screws (including crashes to the front end). If you're using the proper screws, and you haven't overtightened them to the bulkhead, you shouldn't have problems. If so, get a new bulkhead.

[Kevin Boyle]

I think the B3 was a step up from RC10 and the B2, The B4 has now brought up bar, This car should be good on all the track service (some people had problems setting up the car on rough tracks. From the looks of the photo's (thanks Steve) it should be more user friendly. I think that AE and Losi learn alot from each other and are always tying to produce the best car or truck they can. I am looking forward to its release date and racing more off road next year.

Kevin

[Buff]

Well, Cliff Lett is the head designer, but it's not all done by just him. There's help from several different people. Drivers who test the parts/cars, contribute their input on what needs to be done, other R&D people including Roger Curtis, Curtis Husting, Sean Cochran, Mike Ogle and some others.

[synapse75]

on race days, i replace anywhere from 3 to 5 front bulkheads.. for local racers that like to hit stuff.. you must not run into stuff as much as they do..

to be fair, losis rear suspension plate is weak.. i replace those quite often..

[skip wagner]

Running a prototype car, Travis Amezcua qualified 2nd and finished 2nd at the HRH Shootout, the only big buggy race since the Mod Nats (where he was sick all week). He TQd the 3rd round and had a shot to win the overall on Sunday. Lloyd Dassonville also finished 5th overall at Hot Rod. All the same drivers were there from the Mod Nats A-Main. Travis beat Kinwald, MF, Mongomery, Hodapp, Dunbar, etc....


Not to mention the fact that all 4 prototype buggies at the Off-Road Euro Champs made the A-main, including Neil Cragg's TQ and win.

[ATeam]

Originally posted by synapse75
on race days, i replace anywhere from 3 to 5 front bulkheads.. for local racers that like to hit stuff.. you must not run into stuff as much as they do..

to be fair, losis rear suspension plate is weak.. i replace those quite often..

I never busted a front bulk on my B3. But then again, I stayed off the pipes when I raced.

[LouisB]

I've never damged my front bulkhead either

[synapse75]

go find a 10 year old kid, or somebody thats never driven an RC car, it will break, trust me..

[mazrc10]

anything will break in the hands of a ten year old.

Ive had my B3( it was a B2 when i got it) since '95, or whenever the B2 came out. And ive been driving with the original bulkhead since then. Ive had my share of some horrific accidents in mod, but ive never broken it. You gotta be a real bad driver to break that.

[mazrc10]

Originally posted by Ben Ellis
AE pays just as much for their drivers as Losi does, the only difference, losi has been able to recrute some better drivers.



all of losis top drivers raced for ae at some time. francis, kinwald, and travis. it is true though, that it seems that associated hasnt been doin as well as they have been. especially losing the off-road worlds :mad: They have been really concentrating on sedan, like when baker TQed but got 2nd place in touring at the onroad worlds cause he broke! :mad:

Ive been wondering where hughes, dassonville, and some of the other ae drivers have been. There was a group of ae guys that always used to be in the top spots about a year ago. it seems now its alot more losi.

[psycho02]

Sorry Ben Ellis but associated does not pay any of there drivers. If you draw a paycheck from Associated you have to work in there factory, so your statement is wrong. Losi pays there drivers to just drive and do r and d work. Associated will pay there drivers but only if they work in the factory also. And what some of these guys have been saying is right. Losi is winning alot of races because they have paid for the best talent. As well as having a definite advantage in the number of drivers that they roll out to the races. It is hard for associated to win when they are outnumberd 4 to 1. I don't feel sorry for associated they used to do the same thing in the 80's they did'nt pay anybody but they used to outnumber the other teams at big races just like losi is now. Thats where Losi learned it from.


Now back to what this thread is all about This new car is awesome and they need to hurry up and get it out so I can get mine. And oh yeah anybody wanna buy a xxx?

[psycho02]

synapse 75 you should also point out that you guys are running indoors on carpet with foam tires probably. That car was not designed for that. And everything will break when you hit something indoors racing on carpet.

[PeterV]

I'll also add this to Steve's original post, but for those of you returning to the thread and clicking straight to the end, here's the write-up I did based on notes Cliff Lett gave me at the show:

Associated RC10B4
Associated brought this stunning B4 prototype to Chicago. The all-new design recycles none of the B3's parts, and is Associated's most inspired buggy design to date. Here are the primary features, straight from designer Cliff Lett's mackin' Sony Vaio laptop:

-- New 2.6:1 reduction “Stealth” transmission. Uses the same higher torque capacity differential from the RC10GT. Entire transmission assembly has been optimized into a ultra compact package and is now a integral part of the chassis/suspension structure

-- Double-sided slipper clutch assembly. Higher torque capacity, double-sided slipper assembly. This provides a finer adjustment range and more efficient slipper operation.

-- Super low center of gravity. The motor, battery, body, wing and even shocks have much lower mounting positions. This gives the B4 buggy a much lower CG for higher cornering speeds and more stability when jumping and tackling bumpy sections.

-- New front and rear wheels. The front wheel is stiffer and has a new offset, and uses wide body-type. The new rear wheel is now interchangeable with other manufacturer’s buggies--now spec tires can be pre-mounted and standardized for the most popular racing buggies.

-- Longer MIP CVD axles. Longer CVD dog bones and axles have been designed into the rear suspension to push the B4 out to maximum legal width and also increase rear traction.

-- Optimized front suspension/steering assembly. The new “forward swept” front suspension was designed in conjunction with the “co-planer” Ackerman steering geometry. This new suspension design provides maximum front end clearance and minimum bump-steer while maintaining correct buggy Ackerman settings.

-- Inline or trailing front axles. Either inline or trailing front axle steering blocks can be used while maintaining correct axle and Ackerman positions.

-- Symmetrical suspension arm design with captured hinge pins. All four suspension arms are the same length. All of the suspension hinge pins are captured so that no e-clips are used.

-- Most adjustable RC10 ever. All suspension settings have easy access. The upper suspension arms have vertical ball studs front and rear so that fine roll center and camber rise changes can be made.

-- Impact absorbing wing mounts. The rear wing has to impact-absorbing mounts which also serve as structure to the rear suspension assembly. The wing angle is also adjustable.

[ChumsGum]

"-- New front and rear wheels. The front wheel is stiffer and has a new offset, and uses wide body-type. The new rear wheel is now interchangeable with other manufacturer’s buggies--now spec tires can be pre-mounted and standardized for the most popular racing buggies."

Losi wheels on RC10???

[Ben Ellis]

PETER, STEVE, ANYONE WITH ACCESS TO PICTURES OF THIS CAR

can we see a pic with the body on the car? Or has a body been made yet for this car?

[TSR6]

Originally posted by Ben Ellis
PETER, STEVE, ANYONE WITH ACCESS TO PICTURES OF THIS CAR

can we see a pic with the body on the car? Or has a body been made yet for this car?

I didn't see the body at the show. I do not know if they have one or not..

[pudder]

I know what I want! FT B4 here I come!

[Buff]

As far as the body goes....I'm not sure either. All I saw was the car itself. I can assure you though, the body will sit VERY low. The rear body mount, which is integrated into the rear shock tower, sits in front and center of the tower, yet isn't quite flush w/ the top of the tower as the B3 is. It sits actually lower than the top of the tower. But I'm assuming the top of the cockpit will be flush w/ the tower.

And yes, Losi REAR wheels WILL be compatible w/ the B4.....however, not the fronts. The front wheels are still a different offset (deeper/more inset) but are still the same pop-in bearing style, so fronts won't be compatible. *I can see this making it very easy for many die-hard Losi fans to switch brands now!* No more, "I've got too many tires invested to my Losi wheels to switch....I'd have to buy all new wheels/tires". LOL

Speaking of pix of the car....I must've gotten 20 of my own close-up shots of it! lol....however, I don't have a scanner, so sorry....can't post any pix myself. But there are some pics that SteveP posted.

Almost forgot....the B4 chassis is also lengthened to ROAR maximum length. Slightly longer than the B3 chassis. Should give the car even more stability.

[SteveK]

I just looked at the December 1991 RCCC, and that car looks JUST like Associated's World's car they used then. The only difference is all the flat graphite parts on the '91 car, the chassis, shock towers, and upper deck, have been replaced by molded pieces.

I think it looks really good. If I wasn't completely turned off racing, I'd get one.

[XXXER]

The B4 is certainly cool, and I have no doubt in my mind that the car has had tons of R&D put into it. I certainly will not be buying one anytime soon though. As I just got my FTB3 just April, it does not seem smart to be up and buying a new car, when mine is not even near worn out. To whomever asked where Hughes was: He no longer races.
Also, about the front bulkhead thing: cars were not designed to crash, as it is not the fastest way around track (obviously). I have yet to break one, and it does not seem like anyone else around here breaks them.

The longer CVD axles are a definate improvement, the stock B3's barely reach into the outdrive. You can replace them with XX CR shafts, so that you can have logner downtravel, but they should be right from the factory.

The car was definately "inspired" by the XXX. There is no reason that they cannot though, when something is flat out proven to be better, why not incorporate it into a new product? Do you see Mac computers using slower processors than IBM's just because they made a faster one, and they do not want to "copy" it?

Either way, I do not plan on buying this car any time soon, my B3 is still totally capable of driving, and winning. The chassis could certainly use a few improvements, but most of it is easy to get around.

-Steve

[pudder]

I feel the same way. I just got a new FT T3 the end of school and now the new cars come out, argh! Oh well, I have a bet going with my friend i wouldnt get another rc for a year so I will save up my money, and have some towards the buggy, but I might have to brake the bet and get a Bolink Micro Legends. :D

[evaderstrules]

as for the body i am alnost possitive that one has not been created yet b/c i think i saw that somewhere but i will double check
that and a tmaxx will be the next two cars i get as soon as i get a job that is :D
also pudder if u get the micro before that year is up and ur freind comes out just pop it into ur pocket and he won't no a thing :D :D

[Buff]

XXXer...The actual reason they made the CVD's longer for the B4 was not because they had problems with them coming out of the B3 before, but was because the rear arms and hubs on the B4 extend further out from the chassis.

If you have problems w/ the CVD's coming out of the outdrives on your B3, you have them spaced wrong. If I'm not mistaken, I believe you have to use 2 shims on each side of the hub on the axle....If that's not it, I know you have to use at least 2 shims on the inside of the axle. The reason I'm having trouble remembering, is because I haven't actually used the stock B3 axle for a long time. Most people have switched to using a Losi cvd axle because it's longer and you can extend the rear wheel out further from the hub widening the rear end. You use the stock cvd bone itself, but a Losi cvd axle mounted w/ it. Don't forget to use the Losi outter wheel spacer beneath the axle pin for the wheel to rest on.

If you're happy w/ your B3's, more power to ya. There's nothing wrong w/ running an older car if you're happy w/ it and are still doing well. But I would sure advise getting a new B4 when you can so you can go even faster.

[GregV]

About the body- The body has not been created yet. Cliff said the body would be low and sleek, the small tab on the rear shock tower will serve as the body mount.

[synapse75]

SteveK
you must have the master archive..
thats awesome that you got that issue..
I wore the shirt from that race to a gas truck race yester day...

i must say, i was the 'only' guy there with a losi... and take a wild guess who won the main... :D

i made sure to do a big enough victory dance on the drivers stand to annoy even the guy furthest from me... i had to rub it in a little after the **** they had been giving me all day...

[codyjandrakovic]

I also have that issue and I have issue of April '92 which has the '89 Australia stealth car in it. you can also watch the '91 stealth in associateds'91 video.:cool:

[danbrad2000]

LOSI XXX KE VS B4 MMMMMMMMMM

[FleaUDP]

This was taken this past weekend, its Chad Phillips prototype B4.

I also have a few "in the air" shots as well.

[mazrc10]

Originally posted by FleaUDP
This was taken this past weekend, its Chad Phillips prototype B4.

I also have a few "in the air" shots as well.

if thats a b4, how come the front shock tower is behind the shocks? i thought it was supposed to be in front. that looks like a xxx

[Kevin Boyle]

Guys,


I know that Chad has been testing for AE and the car we see has the good stuff that the rest of the team drivers were testing. I am not sure if abybody has the buggy we have seen from Steve. I just would like to see the car out for christmass I can hit March Maddness in Long Island.



Kevin

[CrazyAEBoy]

Hey ummmm yeah that pick it also looks like there's a team losi decal on the rear at the bottom of it.... or at least it looks like it. i think i am gonna it one of those once i get enough money and i also gotta sell my 1 yr. old FT GT and i also might sell my 1 yr 3 months FT T3 and i will hopefully have enough money to buy the FT B4 and all new electronis and adio system.(some of the best stuff to race) so i can compete where i race.

[XXXER]

Buff, I am fully aware of the length of the CVD, and how the spacing goes. No, I have not had a problem with it popping out, I was just saying that with running a longer axle, you can also run more down travel, helping the car fly in the air a little better. As for the "trick" that you posted, who needs to widen the rear end? If you need to do that, then I don't think you have been working with the stock stuff enough.

-Steve

[Buff]

xxxer....well, maybe I misunderstood you. I wasn't sure if you were aware of this....that can be a problem if not done properly.

As far as widening the rear end, yes, it does help. It helps the stability of the car a bit and provide a little more traction AND corner speed. This isn't something that I came up with, it happens to be something almost the entire team has done along w/ many people who run B3's.

Yeah, I believe I've run the B3 long enough to understand what the stock parts do...When you run at Columbus Ohio with national type competition every single weekend, you tend to make every little minor and major adjustments to go fast.

[Buff]

In case you didn't know, AE has incorporated this little "trick" into the new B4....just goes to show that it does work. Now the car will be within the maximum width and length allowed.

[StevePond]

Originally posted by Kevin Boyle
Guys, I know that Chad has been testing for AE and the car we see has the good stuff that the rest of the team drivers were testing. I am not sure if abybody has the buggy we have seen from Steve...

Kevin

The car pictured here has an SLA chassis, which isn't strong enough to run. None of the team drivers have had the B4 in the configuration shown, so I'm pretty sure that nobody is going to have any action pictures yet. :D

[Buff]

Steve's right....the B4 chassis is brand new and hasn't even been tested yet with the complete car together. B4 suspension parts have been tested on slightly modified B3 chassis's.

Hell, we could barely handle the B4 at the hobby show. It was very fragile, and even some screws that held it together were starting to become a little tweaked in the plastic just from slight movement. The public on Sunday was only allowed to look at it through a glass box.

[Kevin Boyle]

Steve,


Thanks for setting us straight. I meant the picture of Chad Phillips car from th e Trinity race the other weekend. Sorry if I confused anybody. I love the pictures great job, can't wait.



Kevin

[soreloser]

Does anyone know yet if the B4 will be like the B3 in the weight category(under weight and have to add to make legal)????????

[rcgary]

Hey, Number 4 (Inside Joke), if I look at the front axles, they look to be supported by bearings in the front hub carriers, vs having the bearings in the rims. Is this true? If so, throw me a freaking bone or something, Bwaahhhhh.

GaryK

[pudder]

No that is not so Gary, (okay I dont know forsure) but the front hub carriers are almost identical to the ORIGINAL rc10 graphite cars wit hthe kindpin/ballstud ahead of the metal axle, and the axle will probably just insert into a hole in the hub carrier (like the original) and have an eclip on the end to hold it in. :)

[SteveK]

synapse 75-

I have every issue, except maybe 3-6, since April 1989. I've been meaning to get the missing back issues, as well as all the ones from before 4/89 that I can get my hands on, but I haven't gotten around to it.

[Buff]

rcgary.....no, the axles will operate the same as the B3's with the bearings going into the wheels. In addition, there will be additional steering blocks available which use inline front axles also....along with the offset axle steering blocks as you see on the B4 now in the pix. This will allow for more adaptability for the car on different tracks/conditions.

KevinB.....I'm trying to help here too!!
:D

p.s....just to help my credibility, I am a team driver and I was at the show all day Saturday w/ my teammate Mellow.

[rcgary]

then why the hex in the inside of the axle, near the plastic of the carrier? How do they expect to use "universal" premounted handout tires for Losi and Associated cars at national events?

[psycho02]

Rears not fronts.

[pudder]

The Universal tires don't matter in this case, because the B4 looks like it has the exact same front bearing size and rear wheel size as the B3, the hex part is easy to explain from my point of view.

Just as on the original rc10 buggy, (which I own) the front axle carriers have the kingpin for the carrier ahead of the axle, instead of like the B3 where it went right through the front axle.

So the front axle carrier will have a hole for the axle to be positioned (obviously) and (this is where my educated guess starts) the metal axle will have part of it that goes into the hub carrier round, with a notch for an eclip to fit onto (I will explain that later), next on the axle will come the "hex"part which is probably less than 1cm. (.5") long, which would fit into a "hex" groove in the actual hub carrier, followed by the actual wheel mount where the wheel sits, then the threaded part for the nut.

The reason for the eclip on the end is for because like the previous B3, there is no kingpin running through it to keep if from sliding out of the carrier, so and eclip will do the job. The hex so that the axle doesnt rotate in its place, it is grooved to stay in one spot.

THis is just my guess for how it will work. It would be a lot easier to explain with a photo, which I could get after school. :)

[rcgary]

Makes sence now. The RC10L offset axles were the same way.

[Kevin Boyle]

Buff,



Thanks for the words, I just thimk the car will handle better on all track conditions. I have heard how fast those midwest drivers and from what you have posted, you do understand the B3 inside and out. If you have good tunning tips let me know.
factoryteamkb@comcast.net . Look forward to getting out to C.R.C. for the race in Jan.

Kevin

[NMT_RACER_BOY]

will you guys thank me if i show you bottom of the B4?
baby bottom smooooooth





http://pub44.ezboard.com/fehobbiesfrm100.showMessage?topicID=2.topic

[pudder]

Thanks for the pics. I do wish they kept the alu motor gaurd and bottom plate, good durability and a BIG heatsink. :) KNowing AE though, there shouldnt be a durability issue.

I cant wait to get one, and RPM better get some parts out quick too. :D

[CrazyAEBoy]

hey NMT_RACER_BOY i like the pics!!!! and the bottom looks smother then a babys butt...... Hey STEVEP when about do u think were gonna get some action shots at the newly and improved FT B4 or the new body stucture??? cuz in the pics it looks like it's already been tested by the tires they're a little dusty. Anothoer Question STEVEP. About when do u think we'll see it out on the markets for sale????

[skip wagner]

Sorry to say, but as SteveP said earlier the car was not runable and many of the parts were made using rapid prototyping(although they look molded) and are very brittle.

Did you guys notice that the entire front end of the chassis is molded in?

Skip

[Buff]

rcgary.....what you see in the pics is actually an outter ROUND axle spacer which allows the wheel to rest on for a more true hold....just like the ones Losi use on their XXX line. There will be an axle pin which will go on the outside of the aluminum spacer.

I was able to take my own photos of the car while my teammate Mellow held the car on it's motor plate. The bottom of the car IS very smooth and sleek. All you can say when you look at it is....WOW.

CrazyAEboy....no, this car in particular hasn't been tested. The suspension parts have been tested on modified B3 chassis. Testing is going underway very soon, if not already, according to Cliff who just finished the car before the hobby show. The tires didn't seem to be dirty at all at the show. As a matter of fact, they weren't even glued. I assume this gave the car a little better "show" quality for the hobby show, as no excess glue would be visible. They really didn't have to glue the tires either because the car really wasn't to be touched to begin with anyways. :D

[Buff]

KevinB....yeah man, the car IS gonna be good at just about any track we run it on. The B4 is SO MUCH more adjustable! I think just that in itself is a huge improvement. I think the biggest change went into revising and lowering the CG....and boy did they succeed! Can't wait to run this car at Columbus where it will get it's true test.

Yeah, the guys I run with at CRCRC are definately of national/world quality. At almost every national offroad event anymore, you'll see 3-5 drivers in the A main from here....and even two of the biggest name drivers you know, namely Todd Hodge and Adam Drake, "grew up" at this track/region. Of course we also have the likes of Brian Dunbar, Rob Schaffer, Dave montgomery, Jesse Robbers, Jason Ladow, Jason Schweitzer.....the list goes on! Each weekend is like running a national event A main! If you want to improve your driving skills, this is the place to do it.

If you need any help, I'll be glad to...BuffRacer10@aol.com

[jesse cunningha]

any pics of a body

[Jaket]

My understanding from reading every where on the web is that a body has not even been made for the car yet. So no pics. . .

[pudder]

Well the buggy is not out yet, but close enough. We can use this to discuss the buggy, what it will be like ect, and still when it is in production.

[pudder]

If anyone is interested, I have made a Team Associated RC10 B4 THread in the Electric Offroad forum in the Vehicles section. :)

You may also acess it at:

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96485

[pudder]

http://home.att.net/~doug_gelowitz/chicago_hobby_show_2002/DCP01029.JPG

http://home.att.net/~doug_gelowitz/chicago_hobby_show_2002/DCP01034.JPG

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=706029

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=706035

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=706042

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=706045

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=706045

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=706059

[violator757]

i got my cash is hand waiting for it to arive in stores lol it looks like another winer from ae




AE OWNZ JOO!!!!

[pudder]

Currently I am on a bet with a friend, betting that I won't get another RC for a year, but we still might get each a BoLINK Micro Legneds, not against the bet. So in the meantime I will continue to race my FT T3, I only have one more vehicle specific upgrade for it; titanium topshaft, so I will just let all my extra money add up so I can have some towards a new vehicle. :)

[Nitro dog]

How much these things run for?:confused:

[pudder]

THey are not even in production yet silly.

[nitronate]

SHES A BEAST

[LouisB]

The B3 was fast and tough but this looks even faster and tougher, the front arms look much stronger.
I can't wait for the Factory Team version, but it looks like I'll have to:mad:

[redxxxt]

Has Associated given a possible release date for the B4? I WANT ONE NOW!!!

[pudder]

Not that I know of.

I do wish that they kept the aluminum motor gaurd and rear chassis plate though, they were like a nice large heatsink, I know hte one on my T3 sure is. :) But I guess they have their reasons. I am already excited knowing I will be putting a nice new FT B4 together in a years time. :p

[skip wagner]

AE just put up a B4 sneak preview page on their website!


http://www.rc10.com/shusting/CatalogHub/kitspecs_b4/rc10b4_kits.htm

[LouisB]

Originally posted by skip wagner
AE just put up a B4 sneak preview page on their website!


http://www.rc10.com/shusting/CatalogHub/kitspecs_b4/rc10b4_kits.htm

How long will it be, AE says:
"PROTOTYPE SHOWN.
NOW IN TOOLING STAGE.
KIT WILL NOT BE RELEASED FOR MANY MONTHS."
I don't like the sound of "MANY":(

[Jaket]

Well it's kind of understandable, being that the Chicago show was the first time the 'complete' car was together rather than prototype pieces being bolted onto a modified B3. I'd bet there's gonna be a tad more final testing before they finalize the different aspects of the design and start manufacturing it. Maybe not.. We'll see :)

-Not holding my breath (yet ;)), JLT. . .

[skip wagner]

AE posted some new pics on their website. The link is on the B3 page listed as "sneak peak of B4".

[Possumbot]

The car featured what would end up as RC10T front and rear arms, long shocks front and rear, and a front end setup very, very similar to what you see on these pages AND on the Losi XXX (front shocks behind the tower, camber rods in front).

he was running a truggy? truck suspension components on a buggy chassis? man, if thats legal let my rc10m(mutant) live again. And my xxx is right behind me, and the shocks are on the front of the shock tower, but they are behind the camber like you said.

[Nitro dog]

Ya i know there not in production yet but howmuch do you think they will run for?

P.S Im new t the forms

[Taz_S]

It might range from 149 to 199 for sport and team, i would not see it any higer with the XXX-KE being at 219.

[k_sw31]

i like it. the plastic looks mush beefier. I wish they had kept the aluminum motor guard to though. I'm waiting for a t4 though.

[k_sw31]

one thing i don't like is the slipper design. I like just taking tw0 screws out to replace the spur, that way u don't have to disturb the slipper setting.
PLus the spur is smushed between to aluminum parts that get hot. Not good. Aw well, a rrp slipper kit should do the trick.

[pudder]

I don't really care about the fact of the dual plate slipper since I just race stock, though I may get into Mod in the near future since my skills are well good enough for racing mod. I like the old simple design of the single pad slipper. :)

[Buff]

Well guys, I was at the show on the Saturday of the weekend (sales/distributers/hobby shop owners day....and many big head honchos) with my fellow teammate Mellow. I examined the car hands-on for what seemed an hour as soon as I got there! I think I must've asked Sean and Cliff about 57 questions before I was satisfied....:p

If you guys have any more specific questions, I'll be glad to try and help.

I can't wait for the car myself. I even got my own personal closeup shots of the car from many different angles....(sorry don't have a scanner though)--they later put a glass box over the car for public day so the car couldn't be handled or touched as the "model plastic" was very fragile and brittle.

This car is going to be MUCH better as far as handling, stability, jumping, AND having a WAY LOWER CG. I think it will be on a much more even plane w/ the xxx on high grip tracks.

The adjustability of the car is incredible compared to the B3, so you can dial it in to virtually any track no matter what the conditions.

Buff--TeamAE/Reedy/LRP/ProLine

[WheelNut]

I really like the easily adjustable roll center, on the 3 seriers vehicles you have to drill new holes to alter them :(

Check out rear arms mounts. They are similar to the TC3's, instead of the carrier being in the middle of the arm, I think that this will be stronger. The front arms mounts look strong also, so do the arms!! Really beefy looking for a buggy.

I dont think the dual slipper will be a problem Losi's have been using them with sucess for a long time with out problems. Thats all I can think of right now.

I'm thinking about selling my T3 to buy one of these, hmmmmmmmmm.

[Buff]

WheelNut....You're right about the rear arm mounts.....they are just like the TC3. Cliff said that he designed them that way so you can change the mounts which will have different toe-in and anti-squat. No more taking the mounts off the car, then having to remove the e-clips off the hinge pins, remove the pins from the arms, and change mounts, put the hinge pins back in the arms/mount, and put the e-clips back on. With the B4, the mounts will be interchangeable as the TC3's. And yes, they will also be stronger.....which always seemed to be a problem with the B3 when taking a hard shot in the rear end or cartwheeling and breaking an arm mount. Gotta love the screws that trap the hinge pins...much easier and cleaner instead of e-clips!

For those who think the dual slipper will be a problem.....why? The problem of the slipper plates getting hot won't be a problem to the spur gear. If that was a problem, Losi would've done away with it a long time ago. As far as changing the spurs, well it might take an extra 20 secs to reassmble everything and it doesn't take much to re-adjust the slipper.....do the "thumb check" if you don't want to do it on the track. Just hole the rear tires in place with your hands and leave your right thumb free to turn the spur gear. The spur should be difficult to turn. This way you can also check to see if your differential is slipping. If it's set right, the spur should be difficult to turn but you should still be able to turn it without the wheels moving. Most of the time, this will get you real close. Also, and don't quote me on this, but I think the Losi spur gears will be interchangable....again, don't quote me cause I'm not sure, but I think that's what I was told.

[momosport]

Um.....

I think its the On off switch for the ESC.



MOmo

[momosport]

Intersting car. Im looking to sell my old B3, and my replacement was a FT b3. May just have to wait for a FT b4. Too bad none of the old parts are interchangable.

Any idea if the buggy uses the Quadra-symatic suspension ( or whatever the word for it is) , where the arms are of equal length both front and rear? Similar to the TC3.


MOmo

[TheRealDudeman]

hay i was wondering do you think ae will realese the B3X parts as a conversion for the B3 i really want them

[TheRealDudeman]

hay i was wondering do you think ae will realese the B3X parts as a conversion for the B3 i really want them

[pudder]

Doubt it.

[Buff]

momo......yes, all four arms on the B4 are symmetrical to each other. I guess it's unfortunate that none of the B4's (if any, VERY little) parts will be compatible with a B3. However, you can start with still running your B3 to get you by until then. It's still a great car. I know that SkipGear.com sells/makes a helpful rear camber mod for the B3 that will help tune the roll center of the car a lot better. It happens to be the same type of upright ball stud mount that the new B4 uses. It mounts cleanly in front of the tranny, under the tranny brace. It's made of machined aluminum and is pre-drilled and made to fit right on the B3 with screws mounted right into the stock rear camber holes. It has 3 different holes (two being the stock holes and the other being an additional longer position). Now you can lower or raise the ballstud for better adjustment just like the new B4 will have.

RealDude.....No, it's unlikely that AE will do that. The B3X parts were made to fit a modified B3 chassis that was also custom lengthened....I don't think the B3X suspension bolted right on with the stock holes. Too many things have been changed on the B4 to make them interchangeable for a B3. Sorry.

[WheelNut]

A b3X conversion, that'd be prety cool. I never thought of that. I think it would highly unlikely though, since they just deisgned this new buggy they'll want everyone to buy the new one.

[k_sw31]

ummmmmmm, excuse my inorance, but what the heck is a b3x?

[k_sw31]

ignorance

[Buff]

Well, apparently my last post got deleted. So, here goes again...

It's highly unlikely that AE will make a conversion kit for the B3. Besides, hardly any parts will be compatible (if any at all) because the car is all new.....including the chassis.

The B3X that some of the guys are running are prototype chassis that have been custom lengthened about an 1/8 inch, and have been also been redrilled for the B4 suspension parts to fit on. k-sw31, this explains what the B3X is....it was the prototype that was being tested to aid in the development of the new B4. They ran the B3X at several tracks and just now have gotten the new chassis design finished....as you see. Check out AE's site under the B3 and you'll see "spy shots" of the B4.

Wheelnut, you're right. They will just sell the B4 kit. More than likely they will again have different kits to suit everybody's budget/needs. I'm sure of a sport/team/factory team version to be announced later. I was told at the hobby show that HOPEFULLY the car will be in production and available by Xmas or right at the first of the year.

For those who continue to run a B3 however, which is still a great car, can keep running for a while.....

BTW: I've been running a new part that SkipGear has made for the B3. It's a new camber mod. This machined aluminum mount bolts right onto the back of the rear bulkhead and runs vertical ballstuds for way more roll center adjustment.....(Just like the new B4 has). Many of the Losi guys such as Brian Dunbar and such run this camber mod also on their XXX's. Now they have them for the B3. They're available through his website..you know, the name with the dot com. I would recommend getting one. I've run mine and it's great. It's very precise and tunable. It is mounted right in front of the tranny on the back of the bulkhead and just under the tranny/shock tower brace and does this without any or much modification (a tiny bit of shaving might have to be done...but very little).

Hope this info helps guys.
Buff

[DENTEC36]

Assosiated racer's have allway's benifited from the exstive testing that the team go's through before releseing a new car, as you can see from the prototype picture's it is much differant than the B3X , as a long time AE racer since before the RC10 buggy I belive I can say without a doubt when ready this car will be on the leading edge of race buggy's //// THANK YOU AE!

[xxxkat]

I do think its cool that the rims interchange with other "buggys".I race a xxx right now,but I have no brand loyalty,(xxx ke,xxxt mf,2 rc 10gts,tc-3)I race to win.The B-4 looks good,and my LHS stocks way more Associated parts than Losi.So Im looking at getting a B-4 to replace my xxx,its also a parts thing.And you know that Associated takes their time to make shure its right.I did like the slipper set up on the Associated more than the Losi.

[StevePond]

I merged the current thread with the thread that announced the introduction of the new buggy. I figured it would be better to keep all the discussion in one place. Hope you don't mind. :D

[RichieRich]

Steve - Let us know as soon as you hear of a concrete release date. Thanks!

[pudder]

What did you do to my thread?! :D

[skip wagner]

FYI-

Every factory driver I know sets their slipper on the bench, not on the track. So it's not a big deal to re-set it or lose your previous setting. Here's a repeatable method:

Just put the car (ready to go with motor and full charged battery) on the bench facing away from you. With your radio in your left hand, set it on the LR tire and hold it down on the table. Then use your right had to hold the RR tire. Hold down firmly otherwise your car will drive across the table! Then blip the throttle to full punch and see how high the front tires lift off the ground. Don't run the clutch for extended times as it will bake your motor brushes with such a high load. Just short blips. Tighten the clutch adjustment nut until your front tires lift about 1 inch off the table when you do this. The tightest clutch setting you should used would be where the front end lifts the tires up about 6-8 in.

[DLF]

Skip, it sounds to me like those guys are just setting the clutch to prevent tranny damage and nothing more. For the most part, I don't mess with my slipper either. If I've had it apart, I back it off until it slips then tighten it to just at the point where it doesn't slip. The only time I do anything different is in very low traction conditions. I will set the clutch loose to prevent wheelspin. That was it's real purpose but you don't have to do it if you can handle the car. Well, those guys are much better drivers than I. :)

[synapse75]

skip
im suppose to use my 300 dolla radio to hold down the tire?

with electric you can set the slipper by ear... just by doing a holeshot and listening to when it stops slipping, and repeat til you have the desired amount...

its gas where it gets tricky to set the slipper and usually requires you to develope some kind of tactic or feel to set it on the bench... but even then unless you are really sure you want to test it if possible to make sure its not too loose...

I was curious why there were 9 pages.. i was thinking, wow, ive been away for a long time.. :D

[synapse75]

i miss the hydra-drive for mod buggy... :(
i keep hoping somebody will come out with an immitation

[psycho02]

won't happen it's too heavy.

[skip wagner]

Well, i'm just telling you the way all the pros set their clutch. If you've got a buddy to be the 3rd hand necessary then that's even better.

Pro drivers I have seen used the slipper as a shock absorber for the drivetrain, and not as a traction control device.

Oh, and Losi used to make a HYDRA topshaft for the AE tranny. It should still fit.

[psycho02]

yep I have got one of those top shafts new in te package for ae that skip wagner is talking about. you have to use losi spur gears though the old ones that went with the hydra.

[ToMoLoSi]

Currentley I'm running XXX ke, but I still find I find driving my friends what could be considered FT B3 more fun

For my next car I'm goign Associated no more losi ae all the way there cars kicks ass and there diffs dont suck

[pudder]

That is forsure. I even like the diff on the old six gear tranny buggy. In fact, I can keep up with some mod guys racing a stock motor in my old RC10. :)

[jesse cunningha]

yay my 1st race was with a champ RC10. the stock class was filled up so i enterd the mod class with a stock motor and i took 4th over all Showed them for telling me that the good stuff (novak and reedy) was a wast of money.

[NV529]

nice buggy AE is working on. after looking at the pictures of the suspension I think I found a way to lower the CG of my T3 & B3. first off by flippping over the steering blocks(running them up side down.) that should lower the front end about 3-4mm. and then I'm going to try to install rear hubs (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXPU56&P=7) off a kyosho ultima ST. if you seen those hubs before they have 3 different adjustment holes for the hingepins. then I'm going to need 4 5X10 bearings for those hubs. and after that I'm going to pick up one of those skip gear camber link mods.


hopefully these mods well help the handling of the AE cars.

[CoryD]

I liked this buggy better when it was called the XXX!!!

CoryD
TrackSide Racing Solutions
www.TrackSideRC.com

[psycho02]

sorry coryd but it is actually closer to a design that associated used in the late 80's and early 90's.

[kc5ril]

are we gonna see different versions of the b4, like the sport kit, team kit, and factory team kit?

when i want to buy this, i dont want the refried beans and cheese dip, i want the whole enchilada platter with guacamole and sour cream too...:p

[jnegrx]

I don't know if a sport model will be produced but i know that a team version will probably come first then a factory team with all the cool parts later. At least thats what they are doing with the ntc3.

I don't see the b4 as a Losi copy. You can be sure that a lot of R&D went to this design and also you can be sure that AE did study the losi car design but to call this car a copy is just crazy. This design has been in the works for a long time. Maybe even as far as the Australia worlds but i think that as a package maybe since before the worlds at Detroit in 1991-92.

[psycho02]

jnegrx you are close. I have original pictures of the car masami used at the worlds in Detroit. The front end of the b4 is almost exactly the same as that car, except for the fact that masami used very long shocks on the front of his car in detroit. Truck length to be exact. The rear end of the b4 looks to be some newer r&d. You will always have one side saying that the other side is copying. When the xxx came out all of the old associated guys in my area said that it looked like a copy of one of associateds older cars with it's chassis shape. Oh well what are you gonna do?

[jnegrx]

I also have pictures of the Australia worlds. Then AE didn't let anyone photo the car without the body on. In the Detroit race the car was photographed and later was exposed in RCCA. I'm looking for that issue so i can post that car here. The car in the Detriot worlds had a "NO COPIES" sticker. Every team member had that sticker then. IMO Losi and AE have great design teams and they don't need to copy the other guys car to be competitive. But you can be sure that every manufacturer looks at what the competition has done and the adapts what they feel is good and then goes beyond what the other manfacturers have done. Thats not bad for us because they make better and better cars each time.:D

[psycho02]

exactly, also I have rcca issues from both the aussie worlds and the detroit worlds.:eek:

[Buff]

jnegrx......you said it brother. This is what AE AND Losi have done for years.

Personally I can't wait to see what the T4 will look like also.....I personally love the new transmission ratio also.....2:6.1 Talk about your accelleration! Not to mention that also allows you to run a smaller spur gear so you can run the motor further forward for better traction and handling. The 2:6.1 will also help the T4 a bit too.

[jesse cunningha]

it would be nice if the 2.4 stealth from the b3 would interchange for fast tracks.

[DENTEC36]

Any relese date rumor's?///// and personaly I will be waiting for the factory team version,hopefully AE will relese the FT version faster than in the past, I'm shure they realize us diehard racer's want all the good stuff up front:D Dennis

[pudder]

I myself and one guy at the track each want new FT B4's too. I sure will be happy!

[Buff]

Dennis.....no word as to an actual specific release date....they're still finishing up the mold for the body and wing, instruction manual and stickers i'm sure. All which will be to the utmost perfection.

Yeah, it would be nice if they came right out with a Factory Team version, but I guess these things take time. Business is still business though.

The 2 wheel buggy/truck class (maybe a GT4 release?? {a GT with T4 suspension**) is definately gonna be turned upside down when the B4 is released! ;) :D

[WheelNut]

Why does a lower tranny ratio really matter? You can just change you pinion spur combo to change to almost any ratio you want.

[Buff]

Well, my guess would be that so the car could accellerate harder on higher bite tracks....which the car was vastly improved for. This also allows you to run the proper gear combination without having to change to an odd spur/pinion because that would move the motor to possibly unwanted weight distribution.

I'm sure Cliff Lett at AE could give you a better explanation, considering he is the main man behind the computer design for most of AE's cars. I don't think that his decision on changing the ratio was for no reason or just for the hell of it. If Cliff says it should be done, then if anybody has legit reason, he does. There must have been a reason that all racing buggies/trucks have changed transmission ratios over the years....obviously for improved performance for the current requirements of racing. Remember how the OLD original RC10 (tranny ratio of 2:2.5 i believe?) accellerated out of corners? Then the B2 (tranny ratio of 2:4.1) came out in 95'.....people thought the B2 accellerated like a rocket coming out of corners. Again, there must have been a reason you couldn't just throw a huge spur and smaller pinion on an original RC10 to get the same effect of accelleration.

[Buff]

I almost forgot one of the most important reasons for the transmission ratio change.....Cliff also said that by using this new 2:6 ratio, the GT diff is used.....meaning that there was more diff ring surface, because it's significantly larger, which made for a smoother diff because of the reason that you could set it more loose without it slipping....thus creating better action and better cornering capabilities for the car. Better cornering car AND a more durable diff (when we all thought it couldn't be improved already!) ......hmm...I don't think I'd question Cliff's theory as to why the change was needed.

[DENTEC36]

Buff, you caught it before I could post,Cliff did say there was less maintance and better diff going to the larger GTdiff though I have never had a problem with the 2.40's diff I am shure that it will be considerable better.

[Tstalion79]

Guys, what do you think the B4 will cost when it is released? Same as the B3 costs now (factory team is right around 200)?

[Tstalion79]

Guys, what do you think the B4 will cost when it is released? Same as the B3 costs now (factory team is right around 200)?

[Buff]

Well, more than likely the price will probably be the same as previous kits. I would say a street price of around 180-200$. Not sure when they will release a Factory Team version. It will probably run about 220-240$. That's loaded with power windows, power locks, cruise control, leather, sunroof, high performance suspension, lumbar seats.....you know...the works...:D

[jesse cunningha]

will it have A/C too?

[Tstalion79]

I think so. I also heard that for the winter weather it will have heated seats to keep you nice and toasty. Oh yeah, it will also have a GPS navigation screen and two 12" sub woofers in the back.

[pudder]

Will there be a Canadian version with studded tires, heater, and an "I am Canadian" picture on the front of te box?

[Tstalion79]

Yes, pudder. There will actually be a pre-painted body with a white base, a red stripe up the middle, and a maple leaf on the wing. Pretty chill if you ask me....

[pudder]

Hey I know someone with a B3 with the exact same body stile.

[Tstalion79]

Yeah on my 7.5 I have a body that is painted in the colors of the italian flag. its pretty phat.

[pudder]

Mine are blue and silver

[CoryD]

Hey WheelNut,

Another reason for a lower ratio is the ability to run a smaller spur gear. The advantage of this is to bring the motor closer to the center of the car giving it a better balance.

CoryD

TrackSide Racing Solutions
www.TrackSideRC.com

[pudder]

Not to break your balls or anything, but that was said like 4 times already.

[Tstalion79]

LoL. Nothing wrong with re-emphasizing the fact....

[pudder]

True

[Hobbytown Racer]

Rest assured, I'll be getting the B4. Mod nat's are in my backyard (east coast) this year. Can't wait to get it.

[Hobbytown Racer]

Rest assured, I'll be getting the B4. Mod nat's are in my backyard (east coast) this year. Can't wait to get it.

[Tstalion79]

He also decided to re-emphasize his fact....

[DENTEC36]

LOL///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

[nicototo]

Hi everybody,

I'd like to buy a new RC car but I don't know if I should wait until the RC10-B4 FT comes out or if I should buy the XXX KE now!!

Are ae cars stronger than losi ones? What would U advise me to do? The XXX KE seems to be a very good car and I wonder if the B4 will realy be better.

Thank U!!
Nicototo

Sorry for all the mistakes but Im French and I don't know English very well;)

[Buff]

nictoto.....do you currently own a buggy now? If so, just run it until the B4 does come out. I'm afraid there won't be a Factory Team version to come out right away, but there more than likely will be in the near future. However, I'm sure that there will probably be a Team version which will get you what you need to go fast. Only add-ons I would recommend is titanium turnbuckles and maybe titanium hinge pins, and unobtainium shock shafts.

Whether the AE car or the Losi cars are stronger is strictly a matter of opinion. You may hear people say that brand A's car is tronger, or brand B's stronger, but it's a toss up....(although personally I think the AE is a little bit more durable...lol) They're both durable. For example, with the AE cars, the transmission and diff last forever, but the shocks require a little more maintenance....on the other hand, the Losi car's shocks seem to last longer between rebuilds, but their transmission/diff require more maintenance to be smooth.

The way the B4 looks to be built, I'm sure it will be very durable.