M8, XS3 or 3PK

[sLiTcH]

I would liketo know your opinion on all of these radios. I'm about to buy a new one and still don't know which one to get. Maybe i,ll get the XS3 for the crystal-free and I'm not a real die-hard racer so I don't think I need the extra feature of the M8 and 3 pk. but give me your opinions

[Pro3/nmt105]

I just got a 3pk and all I have to say is WOW!!! the things awsome. Even though its expensive, it has use features that the m8 dosnt, like its PCM less interference and a built in failsafe, I comes with a transmitter battery and charger for it and it has a larger easier to read screen, which actually helps you understand what your adjusting by showing you. Personally I think the m8s due for replacement soon because its been around for some time. If your not a racer and dont run at a track theres no point of getting the xs3 anyway, because you have no reason to swith channels with out many other people running with you. Even if you dont really need all the features, theyre fun to adjust and experiment with anyway. I really like the feature, that you can adjust what all the buttons and dials do, and set them to diffrent functions. But if your just a basher its probably not worth it Id look at a midrange radio like an xr3i(or xs3 if you run with alot of other people) or a 3pdfx, in that case.

[sLiTcH]

Look, I bash on a track, and race once a month. I'm more than a basher but less than a racer

[Pro3/nmt105]

If you run on a track the 3pk would be worth it even if your not racing, I mostly practice at the track.

[LasagnaCat]

I think I have to (very respectfully :) ) disagree with almost everything Pro3 said.. Go for the XS3, you'll *LOVE* it. The first time you have a frequency conflict and can swap channels in a matter of seconds the world just feels right. The odds of you having a frequency conflict are MUCH greater if you're just bashing at your local track, that feature alone will (again) pay off in spades over the long haul. There aren't any features that the XS3 lacks that would cause a problem for you if you were racing on a club, local, or competitive level. The radio has a six model memory, each model can be set to be on it's own channel if you wish or if you have different receivers using different channel rx crystals.. it's lighter than the other two radios, has more than enough (*useful*) features for most users, and it doesn't scream "Look how much I paid for a bunch of added features most people don't use anyway and pretty colored lights that don't do a thing for my driving that simple practice won't" like the other two do. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the M8 or 3PK if someone wants to spend that much, but for what you need the XS3 wins hands down - and the biggest victory is in the price department. As far as the PCM and failsafe, you can buy the XS3 and an aftermarket failsafe and you still haven't approached the price of the other two. I've personally never experienced a track or area where I thought I even needed PCM.... FM (and even AM) has always been more than adequate even if it doesn't sound as high tech and snazzy as PCM.

Lastly, if you own an M8 or 3PK - please do NOT be offended and chime in lauding the features of your radio. They *are* solid radios, they're just NOT what Slitch needs for what he said he'd be using it for...

[swwaltw]

i too have been thinking of upgrading my radio system also but i have been looking at the M8,MX-3, and the XS3 my lhs carrys airtronics stuff but doesnt even deal with JR so i dont want something that i cant get fixed if it breaks i dont plan on have more that my buggy but we all said that once the MX-3 is cheaper but do i need to get somthing that my lhs carrys or will i not have to worry about problems

[Little_Horn]

I have read somewhere, in this (General Discussion) forum (maybe in the 3pk thread), that it is possible to use a cristalless module in a 3pk (from other brand than futaba).
I think that the 3pk is the best. It offers many features, that in the long run, will eventually become usefull.
I think it's more a question of money and not because the xs3 is cristalless.

[LasagnaCat]

You can use the Hitec Spectra module in the 3PK if you want to go synthesized. The problem in doing that is that the Spectra module is an FM module and if you use that you lose all the PCM and HRS features that are usually two of the biggest things that people say make the (PCM version of the) 3PK superior.

It offers many features, that in the long run, will eventually become usefull.

Could you explain where you're coming from with this one...? :) Unless it learns to drive itself somehow, I don't see how that's applicable in any way. All we *need* are the wheel and a trigger (or two sticks) that are found on ALL radios down to the very cheapest of models. If you give Brian Kinwald a Traxxas TQ3 radio that has pretty much has NO added 'fancy' features he's still going to drive circles around 99.9% of the people in the hobby. Radios are nice, added features are fun to play with, but most of them aren't necessary and the money saved on a cheaper just as capable radio is better spent elsewhere. The XS-3 is still (imho) a hands-down better choice for anyone that's not a dedicated 'hardcore' racer. The MX-3 that was mentioned is also a solid entry-level FM radio, nothing wrong with that either if you don't want to spend a lot. My wife has an XS-3, we've owned and used an MX-3, I've used both of those radios (along with many, many others over the 17 years I've been doing this) and my lap times are NO different than they are with my "high end" radio.

[Little_Horn]

You are wright! But, think of this. First, when cell phones came out, they were a luxory that many people didn't need. But with time, they became usefull. Anything is useless, until you use it and realize that it makes your job alot easier. I know that a better transmitter will not improve your lap times and/or abillity to drive, but surelly will make it alot easier and funnier.

Another example: I could use windows 98 the same way I use windows xp, but windows xp is more advanced, easier and funnier (my favourite OS are MS-DOS and Linux).

I hope I made myself clear. I don't want to be flammed or flame anyone. :)

[LasagnaCat]

Oh sure, your example is perfectly valid and I completely agree. You just have to provide the right solution for the right problem... The vast majority of people with cell phones don't *NEED* them, think of that the next time someone calls to see what you're doing Tuesday or how you like the last cd you bought. If you're a doctor that's on call it's different. If someone is a diehard computer user or programmer, then XP makes perfect sense. If they're a casual computer user that just needs the computer to send email once in a while then they could be using someones hand-me-down 486 and it'd be more than enough. Nothing wrong with the top model radios, but they're not needed for someone that's goofing around and there on practice days..

[Pro3/nmt105]

Originally posted by LasagnaCat
You can use the Hitec Spectra module in the 3PK if you want to go synthesized. The problem in doing that is that the Spectra module is an FM module and if you use that you lose all the PCM and HRS features that are usually two of the biggest things that people say make the (PCM version of the) 3PK superior.



Could you explain where you're coming from with this one...? :) Unless it learns to drive itself somehow, I don't see how that's applicable in any way. All we *need* are the wheel and a trigger (or two sticks) that are found on ALL radios down to the very cheapest of models. If you give Brian Kinwald a Traxxas TQ3 radio that has pretty much has NO added 'fancy' features he's still going to drive circles around 99.9% of the people in the hobby. Radios are nice, added features are fun to play with, but most of them aren't necessary and the money saved on a cheaper just as capable radio is better spent elsewhere. The XS-3 is still (imho) a hands-down better choice for anyone that's not a dedicated 'hardcore' racer. The MX-3 that was mentioned is also a solid entry-level FM radio, nothing wrong with that either if you don't want to spend a lot. My wife has an XS-3, we've owned and used an MX-3, I've used both of those radios (along with many, many others over the 17 years I've been doing this) and my lap times are NO different than they are with my "high end" radio.
Actually the spectra modual does work with pcm and HRS a guy in the 3pk forum has it and says it works in pcm and hrs, and that it even says on the modual that it does.

[sLiTcH]

I agree with all of you guys, but I don't want to spend 517 $ (3PK + Spectra module + xxtra receiver NO SERVO) on a radio, I think that the XS3 has all the feature I nede, and here's my new question

IS CRYSTAL-FREE REALLY USEFUL ?

[LasagnaCat]

It all depends on how crowded your local track is. If you spend most of your time running at home or by yourself with a few friends I'd say no, don't even consider going synthesized. If you spend a lot of time at the track, and your track is anywhere near as crowded as ours is then it pays for itself a little bit more every time you don't have to wait for a channel. It's not as bad on electric nights at our track, but on days when the nitro guys are there people can be stuck waiting a loooong time for their frequency clip.


Actually the spectra modual does work with pcm and HRS a guy in the 3pk forum has it and says it works in pcm and hrs, and that it even says on the modual that it does.

Fair enough.. I admit that I'm not completely up to snuff with the radio, I've tinkered with and driven a couple at the track a handful of times and that's the extent of my firsthand knowledge. What I noticed more than anything when people started getting them is their answers to questions about them.. Someone would ask what made it newer/better/etc. and they'd respond with "LOOK, I can make the display change colors!" lol I've also heard it with the M8.. "You *NEED* the one with the backlight" There's NOTHING wrong with liking and paying for stuff like that, or even the urge that all too often compels people to wander the pits showing off their newest/shiniest/most expensive new widget to everyone they can... I just draw the line when people recommend or try to suggest products to people that don't truly "*NEED*" them and would be better suited for other (cheaper, and better for their application) options. If you wander through these (and any) forums you see what I'm mentioning.. someone asks for a cheap battery for their 9 year old to start with, they get 15 replies with 14 of them saying "You *NEED* the $75 matched super duper pack with the voltage of....." They really don't need that. Is the other pack better? Sure.. Is it right for what they're asking.. probably not. Present the expensive stuff as an option, NOT a must-have. Same thing with chargers, motors, etc. Higher priced stuff is usually better, but not always appropriate.

<this soapbox rant brought to you by... :cool: >

[cpb]

Here's one simple thing to add in the synthesized/crystal-less question/debate. I have an M8 w/Novak Switch and Novak XXtra RX. On channel 70, while running in my alley, I would get very bad interference at exactly the same place everytime. When I say "very bad", I'm talking about the failsafe kicking in and the steering going nuts. I switched to channel 72 (could be any other as well) and the interference was gone.

My vote would be the XS-3.

[AreCee]

I'm the one with the 3PK and Hitec Spectra. The reason I went with the 3PK over the M8 or JR R-1 was believe it or not , price. I have 6 DCX receivers and the Spectra module from my Hitec Lynx 3D which I've had for nearly four years. The radio was starting to get worn out and sloppy and I was ready for a change. Hitec and Futaba are the only radios using negative shift so to change to a M8 I would need 6 new receivers at $70 each and the switch module at $110 which would run another $530. Ouch! So you see for me it was more economical to buy the 3PK at $330 then the M8 at $190 (no receiver, battery and charger add another $160 which makes the M8 $350 to compare to the 3PK).

Are you following so far. So to get the M8 and equip it like I have the setup now would cost $880 compared to $330 for the 3PK. Oh, I bought two additional crystals for the PCM receiver which cost an extra $30 (I have DC crystals for my other receivers). The JR R-1 would cost even more since it's almost $400 out of the box but at least it comes with a receiver, battery and charger. But I wouldn't be able to use my receivers and module on it.

End of story. Bottom line is that the 3PK is one awesome radio and it feels real good during a 30 minute main. Another thing is that it is easy on the battery which is a good thing because a dry cell holder is not available for the 3PK (I made a NiMH pack for it and that one lasts for a little more than four hours.

[AreCee]

I should have mentioned that if you are starting out and upgrading from a cheap radio then the JR XRs is a great deal at $240. I bought two of the Z590M servos for my nitro on-road car and they work great for now. It's a great feature to be able to dial in a channel change at the track instead of taking things apart to put in another crystal and you don't have to worry about it being knocked loose or cracking.

[LasagnaCat]

I should have mentioned that if you are starting out and upgrading from a cheap radio then the JR XRs is a great deal at $240.

And suddenly the thread takes a sharp left back to where it started... :)


AreCee, I'm not sure if your reply was directed towards me or not.. Just in case - I'm not knocking the 3PK as a product, or the M8, or any of the radios mentioned. I'm especially not trying to suggest what's good for you *personally* to do. For you, the 3PK choice was a no-brainer and as such made the most (economical) sense. For Slitch (the thread starter) the 3PK is seemingly not the BEST choice as far as features and cost, which by your last post we're apparently in agreement on.

[AreCee]

Exactly what I meant in the last post. I've been in this hobby since the eighties and can use just about every setting on the 3PK but if I were just starting or, as I said, upgrading then the JR XRS is the best choice. With it you can bash with anyone or go racing if desired and not spend a penny more for crystals.

[Jamie]

I race at a local level (30 racers) and this crystal thing is a real problem for everyone. Having a bunch of crystals on hand can be a big expense and you never have the right one anyway. I just bought the JR XS3 and for me it has more features than I normally use. The included servos are just what I needed for my new RC10GT FT and the use of all 30 channels will be great. Why would they build a radio system any other way in this modern world. Imagine changing crystals in your car radio to listen to different stations.

[LosiGuy62314]

I personally see no reason why ALL radios shouldn't be synthesized. Frequency sythesis has been a long for a long time, all FM radios use it, and you can pick up an FM radio for really cheap, granted the quality of the circuitry isn't as good.

Another example: I could use windows 98 the same way I use windows xp, but windows xp is more advanced, easier and funnier (my favourite OS are MS-DOS and Linux).

What distro of linux do you run?

[LasagnaCat]

I have two...

1. It just simply makes WAY too much sense

2. They lose the money on multiple (and replacement) sets of crystals.


I hope that someday we'll look back and say that the XS3 was the radio that was (indirectly) behind the big shift towards synthesized. Yes, Hitec did it first... but that was on their top model of radio and Hitec stuff is kinda (imho) cheap/cruddy. Same thing with the M8/Switch combo, ridiculously expensive.

[nitrobuggyfan]

I saw that the XS3 comes with 84 oz/in servo. Would this be heavy duty enough for a 1/8 buggy? If it is just on the edge of being too little or just enough I guess I would just get a better one.

[LasagnaCat]

It would be good to use for the throttle servo, it'd be (as you mentioned) on the light side to be used for the steering.. It's a metal geared servo, so it'd probably hold up okay.. it'd just be a little slow.

[LosiGuy62314]

The Hitec HS5625 would be a good, relatively cheap 1/8 scale servo.

[torchedlh]

have you considered ko propo MARS? they have all the features if not more than any of those radios. not only that, but i've handled all of those radios adn the MARS feels the best in my hands by far. it's well balanced and got some really cool features.

[puribong]

how about hitec Aggressor CRX?
http://www.hitecrcd.com/Radios/CRX.htm

[LosiGuy62314]

No offense, I like Hitec, but the Agressor CRX DOES NOT look like a $300 radio to me. Honestly, the JR XR3i and XS3 look much more attractive and have a lower price and your probably still won't use all the features for a while.

[Lapster]

I love my XS3. You will never have to sit out at the track. And people stop by and say "cool.... crystaless" It is awesome. It works flawlessly with perfect reception.

[MyMonkey]

Darn, I just bought a Hitec Lynx 3D. Dont think it has a SPectra module in it but will see. However, have I made a mistake? Will I be drowning in crystals? Do I need the xxxtra and Spectra Module for like 200 more bones? Geez. I must know.

[LasagnaCat]

You don't *need* the Spectra, it's just handy to have if you race or practice at a really, really crowded track. Then you don't have to wait for an open frequency to run. If you're just goofing around the house or not having conflict problems at your track, save the money and use it elsewhere. There's no real performance gain with the Spectra, it's just convenient.

[MyMonkey]

In full agreement LasagnaCat. I think I will use the 3D till I get good enough to need the XS 3. THe cost is what kept me from buying it for now but If I stay in the racing then I will buy that and sell my 3D. I got the 3D because I wanted FM and wanted to use the same radio for two different cars. It shall suffice for now. Better than my Current AM system anyway. However, now I need aditional crystals now. I have the DCM receiver and an XXL receiver. Hmm. WHich crystals do I need?

[AreCee]

You'll need different crystals for each of those receivers because the Hitec DCX receiver is a dual conversion type and only uses Hitec DC crystals. The Noval XXL is a conventional PPM or FM and would use any full size crystal from Airtronics, Futaba, etc.

Don't mix the crystals in these receivers because it won't work.

[MyMonkey]

Thanks. I jsut figured that out. Dadgum. Oh well. I think I will just get the xxtra and a few Tx crystals. I suppose it will be worth it. THanks again.