Mugen MBX5 Buggy Forum v1.0

[the rock]

needin

Im using this setup... its Jason Ashtons... hes a pretty agressive driver to. Its been working great for me.

http://www.mugenracing.com/setup%20sheets/ashtonaction.htm

-RB WS7-II
-9886 Pipe
-Mugen aftermarket shock towers, front and rear aluminum bottom hing pin plates.
-MBX4 front and rear sway bars (my car plants all tires better)
-KO servos

[winning edge designs]

Rock, we're all pullin' for you man! good luck!


I'd go with the Ofna pipe and spend the other $50 on some TIRES, or fuel for practice!

WHY? I've NEVER seen a fast racer lose because of the pipe number he chose and i've never seen a slow racer Win because he picked the right pipe!......But I have come across races were the tires or lack of practice affected the outcome!...................Jim

[ronvdp]

Is there a good way to get the gunk out of the diffs when rebuilding them or do you pretty much have to wipe every piece until everything is clean. Also, is it necessary to replace the gasket and do you guys but anything on it before reassembly.

Thanks!

[nitro22]

Brake cleaner works great to clean the diffs. If the gaskets look ok I still use them.

[ronvdp]

Thanks Nitro,
I noticed in a magazine there was a picture of some pro's buggy and you could see on the center diff that there was a sealant around where diffs typically leak. It was silver/grey in color. Does anyone know what this is and how well it works to prevent leaks? I haven't had a problem yet but it can't hurt.

[nitro22]

Permatex makes a grey gasket maker I have used to seal my engines before. Cures in 20 mins and is good for high temp. Not sure how in sticks to plastics. I know it said what surfaces it was good for on the packageing, but I don't have the packageing for it any longer. You get that kind of stuff from any auto store.

[auto2]

my guess would be yamahabond.
used to seal motocycles cases togeather.

[needinpower]

Originally posted by the rock
needin

Im using this setup... its Jason Ashtons... hes a pretty agressive driver to. Its been working great for me.

Thanks Rock, i'll give it a try.
I just ordered the front and rear lower arm braces (Mugen) and the ackerman. Not that i've had any probblems with the stock ones but the idea of getting rid of some of the bumpsteer seemed good and to do away with using spacers on the pins would be nice as well.

[winning edge designs]

For sealants, any of the ultra seal silicone material works well for it's intended purpose. Red for high temp, grey for imports, black for oil and coolant, etc.

The Ultra grey may be best, since it's designed for import engines that are assembled with no gaskets between machined surfaces.......I've never tried the motorcycles stuff, it's usally very expensive, but may even be better? Most likely it is made by the same companies though, and packaged for them, like motor oil is, not sure though.............Jim

[Techspert]

Here is a trivial question:
On the MBX-5's fuel filter, which way does the end with the rubber seal go?
I believe the rubber seal end should go TOWARD THE ENGINE.

Is that correct?

My fuel filter looks like this (rubber seal end goes AWAY FROM THE ENGINE):
http://www.acehardwarehobbies.com/2.2/catalog/images/ofn10166.jpg

The only reason I ask this question because I think it may have an effect on how efficiently the filter works and may play a role on how quickly it could eventually get clogged based on the layout of the internal meshing.

[ronvdp]

I have that exact same filter (nitrohouse)and the paperwork said for the o-ring to go toward the carb. I'm glad I am finally able to contribute since I've been snaking all kinds of info from everyone here!:D

[nitro22]

Anyone have any pics of the mugen optional parts (shock towers ect.) installed? Thinking I will go with them. I like the gun metal color.

[Techspert]

Originally posted by ronvdp
I have that exact same filter (nitrohouse)and the paperwork said for the o-ring to go toward the carb. I'm glad I am finally able to contribute since I've been snaking all kinds of info from everyone here!:D

Thanx RonVDP...

As far as the Mugen Optional shock towers, I was considering those too. I slightly bent the stock ones and I'm looking for something beefier. I think the Fioroni's would look better being blue, but they'd ultimately get scratched up. Do the aftermark enhanced shock towers add much weight in comparison to the stock ones?

[FlyinRazorback]

I have the Racer's Edge towers on mine and they are nice. I would definitely recommend them to anyone. Not sure if I have a pic with them on there but if I do I will post it.

[the rock]

needin

I have all those parts and they look nice and stock. Weight differnce on the towers are:

Front:10g heavier
Rear:10g heavier

The mugen ackerman brace doesnt take out the bump steep, it sits at the stock height. But is much thicker and stronger.

Ratzas makes ankerman plate to offset the bump steer.

http://www.ratzas.net/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32_56&products_id=415&osCsid=0e5524329c902f50173ac56077b60534

I just spoke to Hardcore Racing and he has all the titanium parts done..... YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEES

The only color they have now is purple.

Next friday they will have:
blue, green, and natural titanium silver.

Heres the list of parts:

Chassi: $165
Front shock tower: $42
Rear shock tower: $44
Front hinge pin plate (what ive really been waiting for) $30
Rear hinge pin late : $30
Hyper Laminate Brake Disk (2): $45
Brake calipers: $45
Servo deck: $42
Center diff brace: $32
Bulkhead brace: $38

I have already ordered front and rear shock towers, front and rear hinge pin plates, hyper laminate brake disk, and brake calipers.

I will get exact weight differences tomorrow. Depending on the weight on the chassi I will most likely buy that as well.

:cool:

[FlyinRazorback]

Wow, those brake discs are outrageous. Why not go with the Craddock brake discs? Everyone that has tried them swears by them and they are 1/4 of the price.

[the rock]

ill have to look at those brake disks....

well I have a set of these laminate brakes on my mutant tmaxx.... this truck can hit harder turns than my buggy and pick up almost as much speed as my buggy.... and man does it stop, and they are holding up quite well. I raced a couple of buggys this weeknd and I beat them.... this mutant is serious stuff..... its basically a buggy with big tires, but its so much wider it eats up the fast turns and the bumpy straights.

but im not closing my mind, ill look into the Craddock.

thx

[needinpower]

Aaaarrrgh:mad: Rock,
I just ordered the racers edge stuff today from Ace.
If I knew the titanium stuff was ready I would've got that. Oh well. There's always next month..

Cheers

[winning edge designs]

I have the Ratzas stuff on my X5 and it holds up extremely well! They sell them for about $10 less EACH then other companies. Check out their website as listed above.

Besides that, Jeff from Ratzas is really cool he actually lent a friend of mine his MBX5 to run the Maxy's race, so he wasn't only running Gas truck!......How many guys will lend out a complete buggy, engine and all????...:), Cool that he's a local, Jim

[the rock]

Sorry needin... I just found out....

[OldskoolGT]

Yipes, $45 for brakes! What's so great about the Hardcore brakes?

[the rock]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
Yipes, $45 for brakes! What's so great about the Hardcore brakes?

really dont know oldschool.... but ill repeat myself once more

"well I have a set of these laminate brakes on my mutant tmaxx.... this truck can hit harder turns than my buggy and pick up almost as much speed as my buggy.... and man does it stop, and they are holding up quite well"

they stop my monster truck on a dime... at the same or faster speeds of a buggy... not sure if they are the same width for the buggy, keep in mind to make these perform correctly you should use them with the titanium calipers. Ive tried stock tmaxx brakes on my mutant and the things doent stop.... so I know from experience the hardcore brakes work much better than standard buggy and monster brakes.

maybe they are over priced.... but if price was an object we would all have ofnas.

[OldskoolGT]

I think I will try out Craddock disc brakes. They only cost $9 a pair. :)

[the rock]

yeah im going to try them out to.... i HOPE they work the same or better

:)

[OldskoolGT]

I can imagine the Hardcore brake calipers providing more bite against the disc since titanium is softer than steel. I have heard many people rave about how great the Craddocks are though. And you really can't go wrong for $9.00.

[speedydave]

Maybe I just don't use the brakes enough(hehe...), but what exactly is wrong with the stock brakes, anyway?

[hung_kuen]

Finaly i got my kit yesterday and i must say that i am wery satisfied so far.

As i were testing tires and rims i found out that the inserts were wery big seems to be to big.
Did any off you have the same problem,or are the inserts suposed to be that big?

Now im just waiting fore my ws711 and os pipe and i am dialed.

[needinpower]

Hung,
Yes, the inserts seem big. Just put them in and try to get them even. I pull on the tyre like its a rubber-band while turning the tyre at the same time. Keep turning the tyre as you go. Works for me.

[the rock]

Originally posted by ronvdp
WED-Thanks for the info

The Rock-I had a filter come off while running and it stalled the engine also. I took it completely apart and rinsed everything with denatured alcohol-particularly the bearings. Luckily there were no visible scratches on the p/s and when I put it back together it ran as good as ever! Point being, you may be lucky and get off with a warning. Good Luck.

oh nelly.... i just tried starting her................................. FIRED RIGHT UP!!! Im so pleased right now. It runs just as strong, like it never happend. What a great motor, this kind of durability will make me a brand loyalty customer.... its the RBWS7II

:cool:

:) :) :) :) :)

thanks ron

[the rock]

Originally posted by speedydave
Maybe I just don't use the brakes enough(hehe...), but what exactly is wrong with the stock brakes, anyway?

realistically... im sure its over kill in braking performance... but the idea that the set up is much lighter will not only lighten up the car, but be easier on the servo, and brake better.

[the rock]

ok

the hardcore titanium front and rear shock towers are the same thickness as the stock towers with some extra holes.... they say its as light or maybe a tad lighter than stock. thats great as the aftermarket towers are all heavier and thicker. He has in production the ackerman plate with a 1mm bend to reduce the bump steer... also in titanium $32 for it.

what they do is add a small piece of a sping like from a pen to the brake screws... this takes out brake drag on the brakes when you dont need it... and extends the brake life. It keeps the brakes from rubbing.

[OldskoolGT]

I find the stock brakes to be good on most tracks. However on a super high grip indoor track, the brakes were significantly weaker than the 4 disc setup on my Kyosho.

I think the biggest advantage of the Craddock brakes is that they still work well if fuel or water gets on the brakes.

[the rock]

chassi they are still playing and milling with.... there overall goal is to have the same weight or lighter but with more strenth.

they are also working on the pillow balls. Mugen is the only company to make that big of pillow balls.... so they might not make them for such little demand. But OFNA might come out with the same size pillow very soon and if they do they will make them. They sell a ton of parts to OFNA people.

Lets keep our fingers crossed that they make the pillow balls.... since they are steel, the titanuim will cut the weight in half. :cool:
and of course be undestructable....

[the rock]

ok im on a weight diet rampage.... I just ordered:

E0807 Titanium Steering Rod
E0808 Titanium Turn Buckle Rod 35mm
E0117 Titanium Rear Upper Arm

This will shave off between 10-12 grams ;)

[IBEXrax]

Anyone have a link?

[the rock]

hey has anyone seen a carbon fiber chassi?

the carbon is multiple times the strength of any grade of aluminum.

how do you think it would hold up?

[OldskoolGT]

http://www.advantageracingproducts.com

for the Craddock brakes.


Some guy had a website showing a 7.5 with all carbon fiber parts that he made, including the chassis. On a part that takes as much abuse and wear as the chassis, I would rather just stick to aluminum.


So has anyone here ever bent a stock turnbuckle? I'd love to have a good reason to upgrade to a titanium one.

[hung_kuen]

Finaly done with my car...( i have to wait fore my engine though)

I need some help with my suspensione setup.

Is there a easy way to setup my camber angle,toe angle without a setup jig?

[the rock]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
http://www.advantageracingproducts.com

for the Craddock brakes.


Some guy had a website showing a 7.5 with all carbon fiber parts that he made, including the chassis. On a part that takes as much abuse and wear as the chassis, I would rather just stick to aluminum.


So has anyone here ever bent a stock turnbuckle? I'd love to have a good reason to upgrade to a titanium one.

im not a basher and our track is very smooth.... wont hurt to try the carbon chassi.... the weight gain will be dramatic... wont hurt to try.

ive never bent a turnbuckle... probably no one else eigther.... but beleive it or not.... 10g's here, 10g's there etc etc.... you will have a significant lighter car before you know it. Steel is twice as heavy as titanium. Im also changing the hing pins, making carbon towers, all the screws.... the difference between the k2 and X5 is about 40g.... and its noticeable on the track. X5 feels nimbler. Motorcross does the same... they shave off a pound or two a year... just by little improvements like this.

but hey... we are all entitled to our own opinions

:cool:

[ronvdp]

Had my first race today! 1st heat, dnf-hit a pipe and broke the front shock shaft AND bent the shock body. I managed to take it apart and bend the body straight again but had to trim the piston with some lexan scissors and managed to get a somewhat working shock! 2nd dnf-engine problem, so I started dead last in the main and with a good running engine moved up and held onto first for most of the race, unfortunately the kid who filled my gas up tooka little while to do it so I lost a little time there but still managed third!! I was soooo thrilled!! I am completely hooked. The car ran so well on what was a very tight track. Anyways, just thought I'd share my excitement!:D

[nitro22]

That's great!!! Glad you had fun. That's what it is all about.

[the rock]

congrats Ron.....

[nad138]

Great job Ron.

[OldskoolGT]

Congrats on your first race Ron. Sounds like you need to fire that kid who is your pit man. :)


Rock,

A Mugen is much more than 40 grams lighter than a Kyosho. More like 250 grams. I used to run titanium hingepins on my Kyosho, but recently put all the stock ones back because the titanium ones had a lot of wear on them (after almost 1 yr).

[JJ MBX-5]

This is my first post. Been lurking for a while. My MBX-5 is great but I need more motor. I am running OS RG right now. At the local track it worked great. The long straight is about 100 feet long and technical. Lately a couple of my buddies and I have been going down to Brown Hobby Raceway outside Wellsville, OH. The track is open year round and its huge! Front and back straights are about 250 long. The middle section is tight but not to technical. It also has 2 huge table tops. Even with 14 tooth clutch bell my RG doesnt have enough top end.:(

I am having a hard time desiding between the WS7 and C5. Does the WS7 have good top end. I have read that its bottom and midrange are great. I have also read that C5 is crazy up top but you got keep it reved up because its bottom end is low. Right know i am leaning toward WS7. Would a 14 tooth clutch bell and Mugen 1.1 spings be a good setup to start out with on a big track? Thanks guys!

[winning edge designs]

The thing about carbon fiber vs. aluminum is not only weight, but price. Not to mention the fact that you'll have to reset all shock adjustments for a car that has been lightened. No more running what the factory racers set-ups are, unless they run the same chassis, etc. Also carbon fiber is more ridged(not stronger), but also splinters easier in heavy impacts, where aluminum has a certain amount of memory, carbon fiber has none, meaning it either survives or is destroyed, no middle ground.

We haven't even touched on the fact that i've never seen a racer win a race because of a trick part, or hop-up yet............Practice wins races, not trying to out do other racers with gadgets, imo, :), Jim

[the rock]

JJ

my WS7II has insane top end... it seems as it has no end.... low end and mid range... well everything you have heard is true. But I honestly think that my motors strongest is the top end power band.

winning

your right and ive thought of the suspension factor.... and yes carbon is rigiter... but i have almost 5 gallons on my car and my chassi has LITTLE scratches.... we keep our track as much rock free as posible and all the jumps are well measured.... now I could be wrong here... but im sure factory racers are limited to modifications.... and im sure Mugen or Kyosho wouldnt allow their factory racers to win with something thats not out on the market for the general public. It would be hard for Kyosho to convince people to buy a k2 if ONLY Mr. Kanai had a fiber chassi... plus theyll call them cheaters etc.... not good for sales. A customer wants to buy the car the pros use off the shelf.

price... yes its more expensive...

One won't know untill they try!!!!

Im going to get two chassis made... (MAYBE, im still researching) if they dont work, i have my stock chassi in my bag. Im also ordering a lap timer... so I can see if it really makes a difference.

thanks for the points winning.... we must look at the overall changes.

I will be the guinea pig

;)

[ronvdp]

Can anyone give me a good explanation of what effect changing to a higher or lower diff oil gives you. i.e if I increase the rear diff oil to 2 or3k what should happen to the rear traction, also what does it change in the center and front.

I had most of my issues with too much steering and the rear end sliding out. I had no intention of changing diff oils at the track so I ran the 5,7,2 with the stock (2.8) swaybar up front with no sway bar in the rear. I also changed the camber in the front to 0deg. I changed the front toe out of 1deg to just less than 0deg. It seemed that this really did the trick as it still turned on a dime but was really stable on the straight. I don't like twichy steering and this made it feel so planted.

[OldskoolGT]

JJ,

Look into the P5 engine. Its got good power everywhere and its what most of the Team Mugen guys use. Nobody ever reccomends a C5 to anyone. Even the top european guys don't use that engine and their tracks are HUGE.


ronvdp,

Thicker diff oil in the rear will decrease the cars turn-in steering and will make the rear end even looser because the outside wheel will have more power.


Rock,

On the pro's buggies is where you will find a lot of parts that are not availiable for public consumption yet, because they are the ones who do the testing for the prototype parts. You should see the buggies that the Team OFNA guys have. Their buggies are probably about as far from a stock buggy as you can get.

[speedydave]

Yeah, I'd definitely say P5 or WS7 over the C5.

Quick question...how does each different hole on the steering link/ackerman plate affect the way the buggy steers/handles?

[IBEXrax]

Originally posted by speedydave
Quick question...how does ackerman affect my buggy?
More Ackerman (Bigger difference in steering angle between the two front wheels)
More Ackermann makes the steering more consistent, and smoother. It just feels right, also at low speeds and in tight turns.

Less Ackerman (Smaller, or no difference in steering angle between the two front wheels)
Less Ackermann makes the steering more agressive at high speeds. The car turns in more agressively. It doesn't work well when either traction or cornering speeds are low.

See more by going to The Buggy Setup Guide (http://home.tiscali.be/be067749/58/)

---

[the rock]

Originally posted by JJ MBX-5

I am having a hard time desiding between the WS7 and C5. Thanks guys!

this is what you need jj

http://www.rbproducts.com/rbww/engines3.5/1004-ws7.htm

all the top end youll ever need

[the rock]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
JJ,

Rock

On the pro's buggies is where you will find a lot of parts that are not availiable for public consumption yet, because they are the ones who do the testing for the prototype parts. You should see the buggies that the Team OFNA guys have. Their buggies are probably about as far from a stock buggy as you can get.

yeah but whats the use of pros testing carbon fiber on a chassi if its to brital for your common use and to expensive for production

[nitro22]

Anyone use a color screw kit or have some after market goodies? I have to get something for Christmas. Lets see some pics of your guys buggies please.


Rock do you have the Mugen upgrage shock towers? If so I'd like to see a pic and hear what you think of them.

[the rock]

nitro

yeah I have the mugen aftermarket towers. they are working great. ill get a pic out for you. if I were you I would get some new after market products that just came out from hardcore racing.... www.racinghardcore.com the website is not updated yet.

they have titanium shock towers, and a titanium front hinge plate. The stock and aftermarket aluminum hing plates dont hold up. This titanium must be the ticket. They also have the titanium rear hinge plate, but not really necesary. you can get the aftermarket mugen rear plate. get one though as it will take away the slop on the hinge pins. hardcore also has a titanium ackerman steering plate with a 1mm bend to eliminate bump steer. Im not really sure if 1mm is enough though.... http://www.ratzas.net/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32_56&products_id=415&osCsid=0e5524329c902f50173ac56077b60534 this one i think might be better.

guys whats the proper mm adjustment to cure most of the bump steer???

[nitro22]

Thanks for the info Rock. Looking forward to the pics.

I used 3 standard washers from my RC 10gt that is used for the very same thing. I would guess it is about 1.5mm. I will put it on a mic and see.

There was an artical in one of the mags. Maybe r/c nitro? That talked about the bump steer and what they used to solve it. Had a pic of it also.

[OldskoolGT]

3 mm of washers underneath the ackerman plate will reduce the bumpsteer the most.

[nitro22]

Old school is right. My washers are just a hair under a mm.

[OldskoolGT]

The best way to fix the bumpsteer problem is going to be with a Ratzas or Racer's Edge ackerman plate. They are much stronger than the stock plate.

[the rock]

im gonna buy the ratza ackerman plate.....

[nitro22]

What are your going to be doing with your old after market stuff Rock? (hint, hint)

[the rock]

sell them to you ;)

[nitro22]

arrant22@chartermi.net Tell me what ya got and what shape it's in. Maybe we could work something out.

[winning edge designs]

Have you guys been blowing up clutch bearings alot? I've been thru a few in just two weekends. Cost me a shot at bumping up to the A at the Maxys' Racing Fuel Challenge!...........These aren't loose, or wobbly, they are totally disintegrated, both inside and outside!..............Hhhmmmmm, Jim

[needinpower]

Hey Jim,
I'm finding the same thing. 5 Liters of fuel, new bearings.
I made some inquiries about ceramic high speed, high temp but I couldn't get an answer from the companies.
Being in the US you may have better luck.

Cheers

[the rock]

jim

I havnt had that problem with my X5, but i did have that exact problem with my mutant tmaxx. I busted them all the time on that car, once I did this, its basically been cured.

What I did was actually put 4 bearings from the flywheel to the clutch bell. It might only take 3 for the X5, but fill up all the extra space with bearings. you might have to play with flanged and unflanged, maybe a small washer untill you get the perfect fit.

Once you accomplish this, you will have less problems blowing them out. The stress is divided into the 3 or 4 bearings, instead of just 2.

:)

[OldskoolGT]

Thats a pretty good idea. There's a lot of extra space on the pilot shaft that needs shimming on my engine and a bearing is much cheaper than those super expensive shims!


WED Jim,

I too am getting short bearing life. Are you still using the stock chassis braces? I believe the play in them will result in the clutch bell hitting the chassis resulting in short bearing life. I now use bearing from http://www.avidbearings.com/. Since they just cost a buck per piece, I put fresh ones in before the main.

[JJ MBX-5]

The WS7 II it is.:D

Carbon fiber is very strong, stiff and light. Which you think would make for a great chassis. But the draw back carbon fiber is that it does not handle abrasion well at all . Example I use carbon arrows in my bow they work great , but after each shot you should carefully inspect them for abrasions (scratchs). Abrasion GREATLY weackens carbon fiber. Shooting a damaged carbon arrow could likely cause the arrow to explode! I have seen it happen several times. Aluminum arrows take abrasion way better. So if you never wreck, never case you buggy going for the triple, and never get T- boned then Carbon is for you but that is not me. Looking at the bottom of my buggy there are many scratches for only the dozen times I have raced it. So its aluminum for me!

[the rock]

I PROMISE YOU WONT BE DISAPOINTED WITH THAT MOTOR

JJ... THIS IS A POST I HAD ON ANOTHER FORUM

"well I just spoke to the guys at http://dragonplate.com/

he seems to know a bit about rc's. Hes VERY confident that a 5/32 or 3.9mm carbon plate will take quite a beating... he doesnt think it will brake, and the great thing about carbon is the memory it has... wont stay bent.

BBUUUUTTTT

in order to bend the nose piece, is not as easy as just heating it up. They would have to buld a custom mold, then make the 12 or 13 degree bend on the nose... To make a knock off of the original chassi.... were talking about MINIMUM $500 to make.... make about 20-30 of them then costs come down to under $100... geepers creepers.. im talking about making a computer CAT and everything and making it perfect.

Maybe the mugen buddies will go for them..haha

Oh and he says that after 150degrees the carbon will start to loose its properties.... and im pretty sure the chassi can reach that easily. Maybe with a special coat on top or something it would help......

So... im going to do some serious thinking before making a carbon chassi..... but I havnt discarted it... I will defently keep you posted.

For now hes sending me a sheet of 12x12 3.9mm for my shock towers."

SOOOO.... IM JUST WAITING NOW FOR HARDCORE TO RELEASE THEIR TITANIUM CHASSI.....

[Techspert]

Question:

What difference will 1.1 clutch springs make over the stock springs?

I have a WS7II and an Ofna 053 pipe, but I need more kIck and PUNCH in acceleration. I am not looking to upgrade my pipe and was hoping I could change something in the clutch to accomplish this.

[nitro22]

When I went to the 1.1 springs and the alum. shoes it made a noticable difference. I also have the Ws7II and it pulls great from bottom to top. I noticed that the engine runs a lot better out of the hole with the low speed needle set richer.

[Techspert]

You were right! A very noticeable difference. The engine revs much higher and the acceleration is punchier. The car is actually more controllable for a newbie-off-road-racer like myself. I noticed with the other springs that my car did not seem as fast as the other cars at my track. I'm pretty good with engine tuning so I knew that wasn't the problem. These new springs made all the difference.:cool:

[nad138]

Techspert, your old springs must have been causing your shoes to slip alot.

[ronvdp]

I am going to order some of the avid clutch bearings as I've been through a set already. Is there a preference for rubber or metal shields?

Thanks, Ron.

[JJ MBX-5]

That dragon plate is interesting stuff. It is a bummer that getting a custom peice is that costly. I think some properly placed heat shielding underneath the exaust would all that is needed, or you could get exaust JETHOT coated that would lower your heat considerably. A freind of has JETHOT coated headers on his drag car. After a 1/4 mile pass you can darn near hold on to the headers. The stuffs is amazing!

[cpittmx]

super expensive shims? is that sarcasm?

[OldskoolGT]

I was being serious. Those shims really are expensive. $6.00 for a pack of shims that cost just a few pennies to make always struck me as being overpriced.


Regarding the carbon chassis; Would a 3.9 mm carbon fiber chassis be any lighter than a 3mm aluminum chassis? That .9 mm translates into 30% more material. I think a milled out aluminum chassis might actually be lighter than a thicker one made from carbon fiber. The Kyosho would probably make a better vehicle for a CF chassis (if actually practical). The aluminum plates that go between the engine mounts and chassis could be replaced with a non heat conducting material, solving that 150 degree thing. Besides, the Kyosho is the buggy that needs the weight loss, not the Mugen. :)

[the rock]

the guy at dragon said that 3.9 mm carbon would weigh about half or even less than a 3mm aluminum... they also have a .125'' which is just about 3mm... but he said the extra .9 in CF makes a world of a difference.... these heating ideas you guys are coming up with is pushing me to do it... it REALLY would be interesting.... maybe we can all join forces and get some done...

if anyone is interested say "I"

if we get a few of us or a lot the price will come down considerably...

[OldskoolGT]

Wow! Now I want carbon fiber everything too. Too bad there's not more aluminum stuff to replace. :)

I would be willing to pay $100 for a CF chassis. Not much more than that though because chassis don't last here (rocky track).

[nitro22]

Originally posted by ronvdp
I am going to order some of the avid clutch bearings as I've been through a set already. Is there a preference for rubber or metal shields?

Thanks, Ron.

I use metel in the clutch they spin more free and take the heat way better.

[TheRo0sTer]

Got me an X5 for Christmas... Well it's a gift to myself for Christmas. Can't wait to race it! TheDirt in Hemet here I come!;)

[eb4kidd12]

hey i had the exact same problem with my bearings giving out a lot, so i replaced them with dynamite ruber sealed ones and they still are lasting. I also changed to the compsite shoes instead of alumnuim becuase i think they just work more persice.

[the rock]

ebokidd

we have the same birthdays... ive never met anyone with my b-day

:cool:

[the rock]

OK IM GOING FOR BROKE!!!!

I just spoke to the owner of Dragonplate and im sending him my chassi tomorrow so he can knock off the carbon chassi.... oh man... how exciting. It will be while before he can have it done as they are moving shops and in a work crunch.... but ill be patient... ill have to tear up the track with my mutant tmaxx for about 2 months......

I just also spoke to a tec from JETHOT and im sending him my pipe and motor mounts so he can spray those down...

Any other ideas for the heat problem???

[the rock]

http://www.jet-hot.com/pages/techinfo.html

[eb4kidd12]

hey rock your right, ive meet only 2 other peopel besides you.

[winning edge designs]

While modifying the chassis and pipe, etc have we considered the ramifications?

First, the chassis on any gas car is a heatsink, helping to dissipate engine heat. This is why any experienced engine tuner will never adjust on a carburetor after 2 or 3 laps like we see way to often. On most Big tracks, it takes about 5 or 6 laps and several (5 or more) minutes to get the engine, chassis and all connected heat sinking parts up to temp, so the engine levels at it's true operating temperature. This is why some racers can run a 5 minute race, no problem, but they flame out in long mains, they tune an engine not fully up to temp.

Also, consider the fact that the pipe and header give off thier heat to maintain a given temperature in the 2 stroke engine. This isn't as much of a factor in a 4 stroke, since exhaust heat actually helps scavenging in multiple cylinder 4 strokes. But in a 2 stroke it may create an engine that needs to run richer when up to temp, to stay in the correct range. It may also have a larger difference in how it runs from cold to hot, since the exhaust will greatly effect the engine during temperature changes. This may make for an engine that needs to be blubbering, Alot, when cold, to run correct when heated......hhhmmmmmm, :), Jim

[the rock]

yeah ive considered the heat sink factor.... without the aluminum chassi the motor will get hotter, thats why Im going to JETHOT the manifold and exhaust. It helps release and disperse of engine heat faster out the exhaust.... making the motor to run cooler.

I agree with everything you said... and thanks for the tips...

The challenge and curiousity has over done me.

I think as long as I can keep the motor to run around 275-280 ill be fine. Ive lived in San Diego and here in Cancun and the operating temps are so different, they vary from running consistant 220's to almost 270-290 all day long, and theres nothing you can do to cool it down. These motors really are tolerant to enviromental temp and humidity changes.

But yes I have two major challenges here.... 1.) getting the carbon not to hot. 2.) and getting the engine not to hot

And they are both working directly against themselves... hmmmmm :rolleyes:

[nitro22]

Hey Rock where's the pics? Did you send out those parts you were going to give me yet?;)

[JJ MBX-5]

When you get it together please post some pics!:D

[needinpower]

Rock,
Can you get diff oil locally or you have to import??

[the rock]

needin

Im importing everything!!!!

Im glad you ask... is their a shop in Mexico City I might be able to get everything at? Im spending a lot of energy importing cars and parts.... I have 2 GT'S and an Ofna MBX PRO stuck at customs right now for the last 5 days..... and have another Ofna at the San Diego shop waiting to get shipped... and im starting to think if I can just buy this stuff in Mex for probably about the same price as I end up paying once its shipped and taxed.

Ive been buying and selling a lot of cars and parts in the last few months and its becoming a headACHE!!!

???

[the rock]

Originally posted by JJ MBX-5
When you get it together please post some pics!:D

jj

ill get some pics out... let me take the extra parts off and take a pic for you.... its all pretty much in perfect shape...

:cool:

[winning edge designs]

I'm thinking the jethot coating on the pipe and header will stop them from working as a heatsink like they normally do. If so this would also add to your potential temp problems?...hhhhhmm, Jim

[the rock]

well according to jethot it helps the high temps exit the exhaust faster..... also giving a faster cyclinder release of hot fumes... sooooo... from your theory... hmmmm.... if jethot cools the motor down, but at the same time it heats up due to "heat sink theory", I might end up in square one....

what im actually going to do before I switch the chassi... Im going to add the jethotted pipe and manifold to the stock chassi and see what happends to the temps.. :confused: :cool:

[winning edge designs]

Rock, that may be true on a 4 stroke, but on a 2 stroke the engine responds only to sonic, or sound waves in the exhaust for peak power, the rpm it peaks, etc. I'm not saying the coating "won't" work, only that i'm not sure what effect it will have, only talking theory. But since None of the top drivers throughout the world use it, I doubt it will be better? Maybe they just never tried it, or it's not legal for ifmar races, not sure?

The pulses, or soundwaves in the tuned pipe help to scavenge exhaust and bring in the fresh fuel charge at the same time. Alot of the intake charge actually passes into the exhaust, then back thru the combustion chamber after a soundwave reverts it that way, reffered to as supercharging, or boosting the charge. This is why pipe length and shape is so important for best performance. I'm wondering if the pipe not being able to heatsink some of the engine heat will make it so the engine will need to be run richer, actually causing a loss in peak HP?......again, just thinking out loud, interested though, Jim

[speedydave]

I haven't really been following the CF chassis discussion here, so I don't really have any input to offer, but I thought that since I just finished rebuilding my buggy for the winter racing season, I'd show it off a little. :)

[ronvdp]

Very nice!!
:D

[the rock]

http://www.cnn.com/

:D

[FlyinRazorback]

:eek: :eek: :D

[needinpower]

Hey all,
I raced yesterday and didn't finish the race. I did a quick rebuild at the track and while racing, the front left driveshaft kept popping out. It happened three times before I gave up, swearing and cursing.

I've looked over the car and can't find anything that looks wrong.
Can anyone shed some light? Why does this happen? What did I miss in my rebuild?

Cheers

[primuswoostinkinhoo]

what side was popping out, the diff side or the tire side?

[the rock]

needin...

i had the EXACT same problem.... it would happen about 2 - 3 times a day... over the big jumps... i couldnt figure it out either... my ONLY explanation is that the pillow balls stretch slightly through the nuckles.... causing the drive shaft to pop out..

all I did was tighten the pillow balls in deeper to the arms... and it hasnt happend since ;)

[OldskoolGT]

How wide are you guys running your front ends? I run my X5 with the pivot balls screwed nearly all the way in to prevent the CVAs from popping out (and its never happened to me).

[the rock]

yep thats how i have them now.

[FlyinRazorback]

Mine are nearly all the way in also.

[winning edge designs]

I run my buggy with 2-3 mm of space between hub and arms. I haven't had any trouble with the axles popping out......Wen you rebiult it, did you change those settings?.....Jim

[the rock]

needin

thats the only part i changed from Ashtons set up

check out his newest paint job

http://members.fullnet.net/dsum/recent.html

[speedydave]

I think I've asked this before, but what hopups are you guys running? I have the Ratzas steering plate, and I want a bunch of other stuff(towers, torque rods, radio tray post, lower arm supports), but I'm not sure what's more important out of everything. Eventually I'd like to have all of that, but I need to budget what I buy, since I have a limited amount for Christmas. Also, I'll be picking up a new throttle servo, but I'm not sure if I should replace my steering servo now(5925MG...some say Hitecs don't last in 1/8, especially their digitals) with a Futaba 9451, or wait until the Hitec dies(if I replaced it, the Hitec would become a backup). Thanks.

[needinpower]

Woos,
It was the diff side.

Oldskool,
I have it set at 276mm and like you, have never had a problem with this before. It's a good point you make but how does it handle? Any oversteer or instability probs?

W.E.D.
I didn't change the front track width when I rebuilt. Just pulled the diff out of the front suspension and left the rest as it was.

Maybe the pb's came loose???? I'll have to check.

Thanks all for the input.

Rock,
I normally get all my stuff with freinds visiting the U.S. I'll let you know next time someone goes so you can place any orders you need

[the rock]

Originally posted by needinpower
I normally get all my stuff with freinds visiting the U.S. I'll let you know next time someone goes so you can place any orders you need

:cool:

[Techspert]

Originally posted by speedydave
I think I've asked this before, but what hopups are you guys running? I have the Ratzas steering plate, and I want a bunch of other stuff(towers, torque rods, radio tray post, lower arm supports), but I'm not sure what's more important out of everything...

Dude,

I plan on upgrading my from shock tower to either a Fioroni, Mugen option or Racers Edge from tower. I also plan on getting an upgraded front chassis brace. I upgraded my clutch springs to 1.1 also.

What's the purpose of the Ratzas steering plate? Did it help?

[cpittmx]

hey! thats a copy of travis pastranas shoei helmet! I had that helmet until I endo'd off of a triple landed face first and busted the mouth piece off the helmet...shoei gave me a new helmet, but i got a different paint job. :D

[speedydave]

Tech, the Ratzas plate is thicker than stock, so it won't bend nearly as easily (though I have not bent my stock plate, there were lots of reports of bent plates from other MBX5 owners). Also, instead of adding washers under a stock or aftermarket plate, the Ratzas plate can be flipped to either have the stock plate's height, or has a 3mm rise to eliminate bump steer. In my opinion, that's a lot stronger than having 3mm of washers under your plate, since it's all one piece and tied together.

[winning edge designs]

Tech, check out the Ratzas towers as well! They have a websie at the w's, ratzas, then dot and com.

If you remember back when Racers edge updated, or improved thier own towers last year, it was just after the Ratzas towers started getting alot of sales. Ratzas had thier towers beefier where the bolts passed thru on the K car towers, so it didn't have that flash and unfinished appearance, they also included longer bolts for this thicker area.The Ratzas stuff seems to be made as well, if not better, but still costs less!....I believe the two towers and steering ackerman plate, for the X5, cost $90 for all three?......They also make Kyosho and bergonzoni stuff(GB is a local importer)....check it out, Jim

[the rock]

Originally posted by winning edge designs
Tech, check out the Ratzas towers as well! They have a websie at the w's, ratzas, then dot and com.


its dot and net ;)

just ordered my ackerman plate as well... earlier today

[the rock]

Originally posted by nitro22
Hey Rock where's the pics? Did you send out those parts you were going to give me yet?;)

nitro..

do you have paypal?

[the rock]

Originally posted by winning edge designs
Rock, that may be true on a 4 stroke, but on a 2 stroke the engine responds only to sonic, or sound waves in the exhaust for peak power, the rpm it peaks, etc. I'm not saying the coating "won't" work, only that i'm not sure what effect it will .............. interested though, Jim

things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....:confused:

[nitro22]

Rock I have pay-pal.


Lets talk pipes. I'm tired of my rossi pipe denting all the time. I think the ofna's are an exact rip from the rossi pipes. Does anyone know if they are stronger? Has anyone tried the new jammin pipe? It looks nice.

See the hot set up for my RB ws7II is a 86 pipe with the long manifold and a waller adapter. But I don't think ofna sells there in-line pipes with out the manifold so I would have to use the short, unless the rossi long fits the ofna.

Any info would be great.

[FlyinRazorback]

nitro22,
The OS 2050 pipe is close to the 86 in performance and it is damn near indestructible.

[nitro22]

Every hear anything about a waller adaptor on the OS pipe? Or do most people run it as is? So much money though. But if it last it might be worth it.

[OldskoolGT]

I've never seen anyone running a Waller adapter on an OS pipe. They seem to work very well in stock configuration. $120 for a pipe seems pricey at first, but is cheaper in the long run compared to a $60 pipe that doens't even last one season. I've had a OS T-2050 for close to 1 year now and it doesn't have a single dent in it. If I were to polish it up, it would look just like new.

[celittca]

Hey mugen peeps

I am thinking to get a MBX-5 because I never owned a Mugen in my life. I have a K2 with a sirio .27 11 ports in it although everything is not build at moment. ( missing screws ):mad: \

So what do I need to complete the car ?

1 steering servo ( how much oz of torque I need? how about speed?

2. throttle servo ( I will probably use a hitec 645mg )

3. RB C5 with Manifold polished + Tuned pipe 063 + Connector

4. Does it come with shock oils?

5. Servo horns, Does it come? or should I get ofna ally ones?

6. Will be using JRXS3 radio & reciever

7. Is there anything that I am missing???

thanks;)

[OldskoolGT]

Why don't you finish putting your other buggy together first and run it for awhile before asking these questions. For heavens sake, you haven't even finished building up your first buggy, then you complain about screwing up the carb on a $400 engine (before even starting it) and now you are asking about a different buggy and engine??? Sory, not trying to pick on you, but its kinda hard not to. :)

[celittca]

oldskool, that's because I have $$$$

nah just joking....:p

[FlyinRazorback]

Pay the extra $$$ for the 2050 pipe. I've used one for 6 months now and not one single ding or dent. It is money well spent.

[needinpower]

I measured the front track width before installing my shiny new upgrades and it was 279mm. No wonder it jumped out.
I'll move it back to 275 and see what happens.

One note with the Mugen front lower plate. Very good quality but it's only 4mm. It has a machined insert where the plastic pieces go but if you put the plastic pieces in there, it's still about 2mm too short for the pins. I reversed the plate and it seems ok now.
No such trouble with the rear. 5mm, good quality and everything fits snug.

Racer's Edge ackerman?? Niiice but a goldish colour. Are all there parts the same colour? For me it would've been nice to keep it the same as the original colour.

[the rock]

Originally posted by the rock
nitro..

do you have paypal?

nitro... sorry for the delay... im just waiting for my new shock towers, ackerman plate, and the front and rear hinge plates... and I will have two sets of all the aftermarket Mugen hop ups for sale.... the ones needin is talking about.

i will let you know as soon as i have them available...

[nitro22]

Ok. Any Idea of price? You can send info to arrant22@chartermi.net if you like. What you have any pics condition ect.

Thanks.

[nitro22]

Neddinpower, you have any pics?

[the rock]

here you go nitro.... they are basically in perfect shape... i cant even remember what I paid for them... ill check and let you know... sorry for he fuzzy quality... phone camara :cool:

[the rock]

.

[the rock]

front hinge plate

[the rock]

rear hinge plate

hard to see... but look how snug the hinge pin fits

[needinpower]

Hey nitro,

some pics? sure.

ackerman

[needinpower]

ackerman again

[needinpower]

front lower brace

[needinpower]

rear lower brace

[cpittmx]

rock, are those the mugen option parts?

[nitro22]

Looks great. Thanks for the pics guys.

[the rock]

Originally posted by cpittmx
rock, are those the mugen option parts?

cpi...

yes they are

http://www.mugenseiki.com

look under "whats new"

[cpittmx]

ok, i thought so. I like the looks of those because of the color. I'm ordering up the shock towers and the hinge pin braces for sure. Does the mugen option ackerman plate eliminate the bump steer?

[the rock]

nope.... get the ratzas... 3mm offset

www.ratzas.net

[the rock]

www.vemon-racing.com check out the speed meter.

I get 5 tomorrow :)

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/USM_Venom_Speed_Meter/m_1299967/tm.htm

[needinpower]

Looks KEWL. Let us all know how it goes.

I think it could be useful.

[the rock]

www.venom-racing.com

[the rock]

ok

ive had 6 speed meters for about a week now!!! to tell you the truth they seem to kind of a pain in the butt... im to lazy to put one on right now... i might put one on my fusion 21 and menace... other than that... ill have some left over... interested needin? or anyone else? I might make use of 4 of them.

MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone... and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

[nitro22]

Hey Rock did you ever get your shock towers in? I'm sitting in the snow bored. And want to add some goodies to my buggy. Let me know when you think you want to sell them.

Thanks Bill

[winning edge designs]

Everyone keeps mentioning color, so i'll let you know the Ratzas parts for the mugen are Black in color.......I dig the fact that they are WAY stronger, correct a few issues AND they are stealth!.....:), Jim

[the rock]

cool winning.. I get mine next week.

Nitro:

I spoke to hardcore last week and he says he will ship out my new parts this coming week... as soon as I get them I will let you know..

[ronvdp]

Is there a clear cut better product between the Ratzas, Racer's edge, and Mugen aftermarket parts? I am looking to upgrade my shocktowers and it seems there are different opinions on which is best. I was going to get Mugen as I live right down the street from Nitro House but is there any reason that one of the others is preferred? Thanks for any help.

[needinpower]

Hey Ron,
The only problem I saw with the Mugen stuff is on their front lower brace. It's still not thick enough for my liking. Not for the strength issue but because it doesn't take up the extra play of the Loooooong Mugen hinge pins.
The rear was a perfect fit though :confused:

The ackerman I used is Racer's Edge. Just because they had it in stock.

If I did it all again, i'd go with RE and Ratzas. Nobody seems to have had a problem with either of them.

Cheers

[the rock]

Gents:

Ok I need help. I have heard of this problem from other fellow x5 owners... but I dont know if they figured it out.

My brothers x5 is pulling a lot to one side... under hard excelleration. It started doing this about on the 10th tank.

I completely took the car apart yesturay. Checked all the bearings on the diff cases... found one that was very rough... rear... replaced it and the diff case... ALL three trannys are pefectly smooth. Inside diff gears and the big one to the pinion in all three cases. No skips, burs or rough spots. New oil in all three diffs, 3,000, 5,000 and 7,000. Arms are all straight.

Visually nothing wrong. Exact same set up as my x5.

It pulls pretty hard to one side.

What is the problem???

:confused:

[the rock]

ok... i just messed with the sway bars... took off the fail safe to see if it was electrical.. seemed like a glitch... but its the same...

just noticed that its doing it at low throttle... it pulls to the left. If I leave it on the starter box and wack it... the front tires turn left and right fast as if it was an electrical glitch... but its not...

the weird thing is that out of 5 straight runs... it will do it about 3 times... its not always!!!

:confused:

[IBEXrax]

I had radio problems when I first ran my X5. Finally tracked it down to nearly microscopic dust particles rattling around inside my Futaba PCM receiver case. Eventually I did away with the receiver case and ended up putting the electronics circuit board inside a plastic bag and then wrapping it up in bubble wrap.

---

[Techspert]

Originally posted by the rock
Gents:

Ok I need help. I have heard of this problem from other fellow x5 owners... but I dont know if they figured it out.

My brothers x5 is pulling a lot to one side... under hard excelleration. It started doing this about on the 10th tank.

...What is the problem???

:confused:

I had this happen with an on-road 1/8 scale Serpent. I would first think a binding bearing but you stated you checked that, so now I will take it to the suspension:

1...Check your shocks to make sure they're all set with the appropriate spacers and not unequal on the left/right side.
2...Check shock compression/oil to make sure one of them did not leak out it's contents.
3...Check the downstop adjustments at all four corners to make sure they're even. I have mine at 23mm front and 26mm in the rear.
4...That glitching could be from a worn clutch. I believe metal-2-metal contact will cause glitching so I'd check the clutch area to make sure the springs and everything is seated properly.
5...Make sure one of your wheel's inner rim edge is not rubbing the suspension. I had this happen on some dish rims when a lot of mud got caked up in there.
6...Try some different crystals for the glitching problem.
7...This would be obvious, but make sure the shock hole-mount positioning is not different on one side compared to the other.

I hope these basic steps spark some additional ideas of your own even if they don't happen to help.

[Techspert]

Originally posted by Techspert
I had this happen with an on-road 1/8 scale Serpent. I would first think a binding bearing but you stated you checked that, so now I will take it to the suspension:

1...Check your shocks to make sure they're all set with the appropriate spacers and not unequal on the left/right side.
2...Check shock compression/oil to make sure one of them did not leak out it's contents.
3...Check the downstop adjustments at all four corners to make sure they're even. I have mine at 23mm front and 26mm in the rear.
4...That glitching could be from a worn clutch. I believe metal-2-metal contact will cause glitching so I'd check the clutch area to make sure the springs and everything is seated properly.
5...Make sure one of your wheel's inner rim edge is not rubbing the suspension. I had this happen on some dish rims when a lot of mud got caked up in there.
6...Try some different crystals for the glitching problem.
7...This would be obvious, but make sure the shock hole-mount positioning is not different on one side compared to the other.
8...Another obvious thing is the dual/rate on his radio might have gotten changed accidentally. Check the radio settings and possibly sub-trim for the steering.

I hope these basic steps spark some additional ideas of your own even if they don't happen to help.

[the rock]

Originally posted by Techspert
I had this happen with an on-road 1/8 scale Serpent. I would first think a binding bearing but you stated you checked that, so now I will take it to the suspension:

1...Check your shocks to make sure they're all set with the appropriate spacers and not unequal on the left/right side.
I CHECKED THIS AND ITS EQUAL
2...Check shock compression/oil to make sure one of them did not leak out it's contents.
REBUILT THE SHOCKS ALREADY
3...Check the downstop adjustments at all four corners to make sure they're even. I have mine at 23mm front and 26mm in the rear.
USE NO DOWNSTOPS
4...That glitching could be from a worn clutch. I believe metal-2-metal contact will cause glitching so I'd check the clutch area to make sure the springs and everything is seated properly.
CAR HAS ABOUT 12 TANKS, AND ITS TURNING ALSO AT LESS THEN 1/4 THROTTLE. I WILL CHECK IT ANYWAYS.
5...Make sure one of your wheel's inner rim edge is not rubbing the suspension. I had this happen on some dish rims when a lot of mud got caked up in there.
PUT A BRAND NEW SET OF WHEELS TODAY
6...Try some different crystals for the glitching problem.
COULD BE, IM GOING TO CHANGE OUT THE ENTIRE RECEIVER FROM MY X5.
7...This would be obvious, but make sure the shock hole-mount positioning is not different on one side compared to the other.
SAME

I hope these basic steps spark some additional ideas of your own even if they don't happen to help.

I answered in CAPS in you quote above.

Maybe what I can try if this doesnt fix is swap front, center and rear ends one by one. Just do a process of elimination... Im leaning towards electrical right now... hmmmm.....

[nitro22]

First bet would be electrical second would be a tweeked chassis or something in the suspension. Put your radio gear in it and see if it works then look for other things.

[the rock]

Originally posted by IBEXrax
I had radio problems when I first ran my X5. Finally tracked it down to nearly microscopic dust particles rattling around inside my Futaba PCM receiver case. Eventually I did away with the receiver case and ended up putting the electronics circuit board inside a plastic bag and then wrapping it up in bubble wrap.

---

idexrax

when the car is off... the steering never glitches... only when the car is fired up. Could this still be the receiver???

[ronvdp]

Rock,
Did you try replacing the entire radio box/servo tray assembly? That would at least narrow it down to the electronics as opposed to other metal to metal contacts in the car. Plus it's quick and easy to do. Just a thought.

[the rock]

yep thanks Ron..

I did it this moring... im testing it at the track in about 1 hour... fingers are crossed...

;)

[ronvdp]

I would rather be going to test my faulty MBX5 than going to work! I don't feel sorry for you one bit!!! JK bro:D I'm sure you'll narrow it down.

[needinpower]

Rock,
the only other thing I can think of is if you're using different wheels than stock (Proline). I put on a set of Ofna rims 'cause they look good and had similar probs to what you're saying.
A 1mm shock spacer in each wheel at the hub fixed it for me.

[the rock]

OK!!!!!

thanks for the help GENTS!!!

PROBLEM FIXED!!!!
What was it????????????????????????






































my steering servo had one loose and not fully connecting wire.... ... so when the car was turned off... everything was cherry.... when it was fired... the vibration of the entire enchilada would seperate that one wire... making a glitch....

It was such a slight seperation... that I only noticed it when I was puting back on his original receiver (i wasnt about to leave a brand new receiver on my bros car if that wasnt the problem lol)

anyways... its one of those feeling were your like... damb I feel dumb that it was something so simple.. but at the same time you think.... thank god it was something so simple.

thanks for the support hermanos...

:cool:

[winning edge designs]

Cool Rock!

Now I have to figure out why my car started shutting off after 20 minutes during the main. It would restart and run good for about 2 laps, sometimes 3, then do it again. Only stalling at idle, also only intermittantly. I suspected a broken clutch spring, but found none, now i'm thinking a glow plug. I've had some that all of a sudden don't like idling much. The tank and lines look good and the engine wasn't getting hot anyway......I'll try a fresh plug at our next race during practice and see.

Have any of you had a similar problem and found anything other then clutch or glow plugs?....WS7II, btw....Jim

[the rock]

winning

I would start first with the glow plug. I have a ws7II also and the motor ticks forever... literally. I ran all day yesturday and I do like 4 to 5 tanks without stopping every run... and it will hold an idle forever. Im using Mcoy #8 plugs. Maybe your carb loosed up a little... or try raising the idle just a tad.

I would try that before messing with the needles. hope this helped.

rock

[winning edge designs]

;/, Rock ,thanks, I'm wondering if anyone found a problem like Oring splitting in the backplate, or carb on it's own, etc. I'll throw a plug in and run her again.....ttyl, Jim

[T-Maxxahol]

In two motors.. One Novarossi and One Picco... both ingested dirt through the filter... just a thought.. check the sleeve and internal parts.. if the problem persitss.. but by all means check the easy stuff first.......... if dirt is in there the damage is already done.......,,,,,,,,,,,Hoping for the best...... Robert

I have since become very **** about air filter maintenance..

[OldskoolGT]

I had a engine that stated to act strange during a main. It started to run lean and the idle got real lazy and kept flaming out. Turns out that the crankcase had a huge crack in it at the bottom (probably crash damage). Hopefully your engine won't have this problem.

[hung_kuen]

I have finaly completed my car and need some break in settings for my ws711,it wasent pre-set and the manual didnt have that information.

thanks for all help.

[winning edge designs]

Hung_kuen, I just checked my WS7II settings for a private message....I'm at 4 turns low needle and 3 and 1/4 high needle, using Maxys Pro Racing fuel(maxysfuel dot com) with 30% nitro and 8 percent oil.........If you want to start conservative, try 3 and 3/4 high and 4 1/4 low end to start....Hope this helps, Jim

[drew840]

I just finished building my mbx 5 about a week ago and got my engine in just the other day... i got the RB S7. Havent had the chance to fire it up yet, just need a few more things and I'll be ready... Ive had plenty of Rc's before and this is not my first nitro but I would appreciate any advice or comments from those who have had this buggy for awhile... What should I be careful of, anything I should purchase as a spare or a hopup before going to the track for a little practice????? From what Ive read... I think this buggy is gonna be sweet, it sure looks like it will be..... I think im just worried about the pins coming out of the axles and the bumpsteer everyone keeps talking about, but i dont think the last one will be too much of a problem that I would notice..

[nitro22]

You got yourself a great buggy. I have had mine since June. I haven't broken one part. And I'm not easy on it either. After a few months I went through some bushings. I would get some extra chutch bell bearings,glow plugs and a bushing kit. Also a couple shock rebuild kits the bushings in those wear out after a while. Go out and let her rip!!!.

As far as the bump steer ya it has some but I never noticed a problem with it. You can put 3 small washers under the ackerman plate to get rid of it.

[IBEXrax]

I was just thinking about the MBX5 designed-in bump steer that I read about over and over and supposedly it being this big problem. And not just on this thread, but on other buggy forums too.

The part I always get hung-up on is, “Why did Mugen design the MBX5 that way.” I feel fairly confident that the design engineer(s) must have at least thought about it. I imagine the discussion going something like, ”The X5 arms are longer than the steering links so we are going to have some bump steer. So where are we going to put it?”

You see, I have always run my X5 with the “stock Bump steer” and I can’t say I have actually have ever had a problem with it. The fact is, the more I think it through – the more I like the design.

This is how I convince myself and rationalize that the bump steer design is a good idea:
Imagine the X5 approaches the corner under power with the front unloaded and with a little toe-in. On entry into the corner, the weight transfers forward, the front end drops down and the geometry goes toe-out just where you need it: at the entry into the corner. As you get back on the power after the aggressive turn-in, the front end raises up, the geometry goes back to toe-in and the buggy quickly rotates through the corner.

The fact is, you have to set-up your buggy with toe-out to get it to turn quickly into the corner. But the drawback is, with a toe-out set-up the buggy is loose coming off the corner under power. So with the designed X5 dynamic toe-in working for you, not only do you have quick turning while decelerating, but also quick and stable rotation around the corner under power.

So I’m not exactly sure that it is a good idea to stack all those washers under the Servo Saver Plate (E0305) or whatever you call smiley face thingy that keeps getting bent.

That is unless you like to set-up with slow turn-in and loose coming off.

Signed,
MRP Pro-180 pan car veteran.
i.e. Off road suspension neophyte.

[roee]

I know this issue has been discussed for a while now, but what should be better (assuming price is no object) - Kanai III or the MBX5?

Thanks :)

[winning edge designs]

roee, i'll bet on a MBX5 thread you'll get alot of MBX5 is better responses?

In all honesty, it seems to me like my MBX5 has better steering, but my 7.5 was better in the bumps, at least when they were really bumpy? On hooked up tracks it probably won't matter, on really loose tracks i'd lean towards the MBX5, because of the steering benefit..............Now, on a bumpy slippery track is where the decision gets tuffer, LOL. Basically eiher one is capable and can take a good driver/mechanic to the winners circle! Of course i've won some races running a Hyper 7 and a Crono RS01 too!


IBExrax, I agree on the effect of the bump steer on cornering, mostly. However the trade off is a darty unstable car on bumpy tracks. Also toe-out helps add turn in steering and stability on turn exit. When the car bumps in on exit the car feels LESS stable, which adds to the steering feel, but also mistakes. I've tried my car both ways and I prefer it ALOT more with most of the bump steer removed. The Ratzas steering rack doesn't remove ALL of the bump, just most of it. Making the car turn in just as well, but feel and be more stable under power, during turn exit..............Jim

[hung_kuen]

Winning edge design- thanks for the setting!
I warmed it up to 60`celcius with my heat gun and it stated att first push down against the startbox.
And after a small adjustment on the low end to keep it as rich as possibel, it kept a perfect idle through the first tank

[winning edge designs]

hung_kuen, glad I could help. Try and keep an eye on your temp and stay between 190 and 250. Especially if it's very cold where you are...............have fun, Jim

[hung_kuen]

I baught a raytek temp gun with my engine so i can keep a close eye on the temp,when you say 190-250 you meen farenheit

[winning edge designs]

Yes, Farenheit, not celcius. I give such a broad range because of the variables being so extreme. I've seen some engines run best at 190, some at 250, depending on pipe, plugs used, weather, fuel type and oil content, etc....190 will be hot enough to properly expand all the engine components and 250 will be cool enough to keep from overheating the fuel mixture and oil, which causes damage and rapid wear.....Hope this helps, Jim

[tkbr0wn]

I've been reading these boards for a while now and have had my MBX-5 for about two months. I have been playing with all of the different setups available on this site and others but I hate that I don't have a way to track all the differnent setups I've used.

Do you guys know of any software that handles setup sheets and tracks them


Kenny

[tkbr0wn]

I figured there was nothing out there so I made a setup sheet program in Microsoft Access. If any of you guys want to take a look at it, shoot me an email kebrown@radiantsystems.com. It has a screen that shows all of the setups currently saved ordered by track name, number of laps, and best lap. You can view the setup sheet, make changes, add new setups, or print. If enough people are interested, I will change it over to a VB app that is more easily distributable. I can distribute the MS Access version, but the runtime it requires for people without MS Access is about 50mb so I would have to send it on CD (or put in somewhere that will handle that kind of bandwidth)


Kenny

[NoleC5]

This sounds way cool Kenny, you'll have to hook me up!! But I still think you should get a Kanai II :p

[tkbr0wn]

I'll charge to do a version for the Kyosho's :D

[NoleC5]

Originally posted by tkbr0wn
I'll charge to do a version for the Kyosho's :D

Damn....that was a good one!! :D

[OldskoolGT]

Do all you guys change your setup so much that you need a computer to keep track of things?

I try to stick to the same basic setup everywhere and just change tires to suit the track.

[winning edge designs]

oldskool, me too. I basically change my tires more then anything, next most common change is ride height, then center diff fluid, rarely.....I like a higher car on bumpy, looser tracks and a lower car on smooth higher traction tracks. I also like lighter center diff on slippery, or bumpy tracks and heavier for high bite smooth tracks...............No bandwidth needed for me!......sounds cool though, but I need time as it is for going thru my cars and would never get to it anyway....:), Jim

[hung_kuen]

Thanks again Winning edge design.
I went to my lhs yesterday to buy some fuel to finnish my break in.
On my first tank i used Model technics (the only brand they suport) dynaglo 16% witch have 8% e.d.l (synthetic oil),2%caster oil.

Yesterday they only had qwikspeed 25% witch has 12 % e.d.l and no caster oil,the guy att my hobbyshop said it would work fine so i used it for my second tank(still just att idle)

But the manual suggest you should break in in with the fuel you intend to use,in my case dynaglow 16%.

So i am asking you guys should i wait for the other fuel to arrive or can i continue my break in?
I know break in of the engine is the most important thing to insure long life and good power.

I cant wait to drive this beauty.

[nitro22]

Originally posted by hung_kuen
the manual suggest you should break in in with the fuel you intend to use,in my case dynaglow 16%.

I know break in of the engine is the most important thing to insure long life and good power.


Sounds Like you just answered your own question. I know it's hard, but if it were me I'd wait.

[the rock]

Gents:

Question...

My buddys car is running horrible... its really hard to tune and have not got it right yet. He has a Picco 01-BP....

The only thing I can think of is the breakin he did. I cranked her up the first tank... complete idle the entire time. Second tank came along... I started it, idleing most of the time with SMALL spirts of gas..... I had to go downstairs and he took over... I told him not rev to much... SMALL increments..... well when I came back I cought him WACKING the motor.... a lot of HIGH rpms for almost the entire tank..... maybe at idle for a few seconds then reving it but VERY high.... (he confessed)

Of course I took the controller away and bit@@@@ slapped him :eek:

But now the car wont hold a good tune... and it sounds as the exhaust is mumbled..... and we are on like the 12th tank.

My brother has the exact motor with almost the same tanks.... it rips, and sounds VERY nice.

????

[hung_kuen]

Originally posted by nitro22
Sounds Like you just answered your own question. I know it's hard, but if it were me I'd wait.

You are so right... only wanted to hear that it was ok so i could continue my break in....

[winning edge designs]

Hung_kuen, I would wait for the same fuel if you can stand it. But realistically, it won't matter if you tune the engine to break in about the same temp as the first fuel. EXCEPT for the fact that the oil in the 2nd fuel is different. Going from a good castor fuel to all synthetic, not too good. synthetics have been proven to give more power and shorten engine life. They are only popular for two reasons, the misconception the synthetics are better at lubricating and more power at the expense of earlier rebiulds.

In fullsize cars, synthetics don't lubricate better, but they endure extremes and prolong break down longer. Conventional oils lubricate just as well, if not better, but can't handle poor maintenance as well............For R/C castor is proven best, break in or racing, unless you get free engines?

Rock, I wouldn't think high revs would affect the tune at all, unless there has been damage done? Check the rod for stretching, the glow plug for contamination from detonation, piston failure, etc. Obviously it's also possible an O-ring took some damage, but not likely, they usually only damage when handled, except for the moving carb ones...................Jim

[hung_kuen]

One more questione... do you guys use after run oil after every sessione even if you are using the car next day?

[the rock]

naaa.... it would be like washing your hands everytime you touch something...

[hung_kuen]

Thanks rock.. not easy beeing relatively new to the game;)

[winning edge designs]

I don't either, only if the engine will sit a few weeks or longer. In my opinion it's more important to completely burn out the alchohol that may be left in the lines and engine before putting it away. Also, if you put the car away with the piston at the bottom dead center and loosen the glow plug that will help. Some racers even prop open the fuel tank for storing, so moisture won't accumulate in it.....................:), Jim

[IBEXrax]

Originally posted by the rock
naaa.... it would be like washing your hands every time you touch something...
If that something that you touched was a corrosive that would soon eat away your hands, then I would definitely recommend you wash every time.

In the case of a glow engine running mostly on methanol, the corrosive is rust that starts from the water you will get in you engine. The molecular physics at work here have to do with methanol not being happy unless its got a health percentage of water soaked up in it. The pertinent lesson here, is to realize that, the fuel you run in your buggy is constantly suck-up water out of the air from the time you first open the bottle to the last drop of the jug.

Even if you are diligent at keeping the cap on your fuel bottle, using only one quart metal fuel containers and only running your buggy when the humidity is less that five percent, you still can't keep the moisture from getting into the fuel that remains in you engine after you quit for the day. In this day and age, no racer/basher can totally know for sure if they will run tomorrow or not.

The time tested method to fight off the rust (the rust that I have seen form in less that a week) is to first run your fuel system completely dry. This means run the tank dry, run the fuel lines dry, run the fuel filter dry and run the engine crankcase completely dry.

Next clean around the carburetor and clean around the glow plug before you remove the air filter and the glow plug. With the carb full open, add just 10 to 15 drops of oil and another five onto the top of the piston. Put the air cleaner back on and then crank your motor over a few dozen times. Check the glow plug for damage and then replace or reinstall as appropriate.

If you insist on supporting you local Hobby Shop "LHS", go ahead and buy that outrageously expensive after run oil that comes in the little bottle. Or if you are struck by a brief moment of sanity, drop by the auto parts store and get a quart of Marvell Mystery oil for only four-fifty.

At a fraction of a penny for every application, It is a wise investment to lengthen the working life of you motor. And it somehow seems a good idea to at least wash your hands once at the end of the day after you last touch/run you buggy.



Nothing personal rock; just making a point.

[the rock]

Originally posted by IBEXrax
If that something that you touched was a corrosive that would soon eat away your hands, then I would definitely recommend you wash every time.

Nothing personal rock; just making a point.

Obviously IBEX about the hand washing....

Do you really go threw this hassle if your going to run the next day??? If you do then more power to you.

Kuen... this is very good advise from IBEX... if your an absersive compulser ;) then do it everyday.... by all means... it can only do more good than bad.

If not i would do it if I new the car was going to sit for more than a week. BUT... at least run your car dry everytime.... get all the nitro out.

Never personal IBEX... one mind works less then many;)

[hung_kuen]

Thanks to everybody for great information!

I will try to use after run oil everytime.
Im gona finnish the break in today,after 5 tanks on a super rich setting im gona start leaning it out little by little.

I have never driven a buggy before and must say that i am suprised,suprised by its amazing driveability.... its like its on rails :)

By the way is rebound stop and droop the same thing?
And do you use it, dont we need all the droop we can get?

[cpittmx]

after every run i'm sure to run all of the fuel out of my buggy. I then clean around the glow plug and carb. I remove the glow plug and air filter and rinse out with WD-40. If the car is going to sit for a couple weeks or so I use after run oil.

[cpittmx]

Originally posted by hung_kuen
Thanks to everybody for great information!

I will try to use after run oil everytime.
Im gona finnish the break in today,after 5 tanks on a super rich setting im gona start leaning it out little by little.

I have never driven a buggy before and must say that i am suprised,suprised by its amazing driveability.... its like its on rails :)

By the way is rebound stop and droop the same thing?
And do you use it, dont we need all the droop we can get?

it helps that you started out with the best buggy :) . I started with an ofna lx pro and it did not drive like it was on rails. The FIRST time i drove my mbx i cut my lap time by over 2 seconds and i had been racing that track all summer long with my ofna!

[hung_kuen]

I have now taken it for my first real drive and i am amazed :D

And then more questions:

I read that a buggy should always be level when it comes to front and rear ride height but mugens stock setup are not,its higher on the rear end.
What setup do u guys run?

The same place i read that you shouldnt use rebound stop/droop
but again mugens setup uses rebound stop.
I havent used rebound stop yet and noticed that without it the wheels interfere with the upper link if you take it off the ground as in a jump.

thanks for all suport

[winning edge designs]

Stop and droop refer to up and down travel. For most tracks you'll want as much down travel(droop) in the back as you can get, but a little less up front. For high traction or smooth tracks you'll be able to run less and get more predictable and responsive handling.

For ride hieght I prefer the buggy to sit rear dogbones above level, just a bit and front level. This is because a 4wd chassis wants to unload the front tires under acceleration and ride hieght like this helps fight it a little. There are however other factors, like rear anti-squat, front anti-dive, hinge pin angles, etc that also contribute, but aren't as easy to change.

Btw, another trick for after run oil......The oil they sell you for $4.95 in a 2 or 3 ounce bottle is transmission fluid that costs $1.19 at an auto parts store for a quart! Trans fluid is very good at fighting rust and the corrosive nature of alcohol, but it lubricates MUCH better then WD-40..................:), Jim

[celittca]

Hey guys, I just got myself a mbx-5 !!!:) :) :) Anyways, I am only on step3 where you start to build the diff box. Any suggestions on how to build this buggy even better???? oh I used CA glue as rubber glue ( says on the r/c nitro mag ) Also I will be running a C5 with 063

thanks for any inputs

[celittca]

Also, how much torque and speed do I need for steering? Is the servo saver on the mbx-5 any good? don't want to strip out the servos.;)

[hung_kuen]

Here is a pic off my ride after my first run..
One off the wheels cracked and broke after a cartwheel though :mad: i am glad i have the stock ones so i can go racing tomorrow.

[the rock]

CONGRATS!!

Nice ride!!!

Well thats why I use the plain flat face wheels... bullet proof and least expensive. ;)

[JeffS]

Originally posted by IBEXrax
I was just thinking about the MBX5 designed-in bump steer that I read about over and over and supposedly it being this big problem. And not just on this thread, but on other buggy forums too.

The part I always get hung-up on is, “Why did Mugen design the MBX5 that way.” I feel fairly confident that the design engineer(s) must have at least thought about it. I imagine the discussion going something like, ”The X5 arms are longer than the steering links so we are going to have some bump steer. So where are we going to put it?”

You see, I have always run my X5 with the “stock Bump steer” and I can’t say I have actually have ever had a problem with it. The fact is, the more I think it through – the more I like the design.

This is how I convince myself and rationalize that the bump steer design is a good idea:
Imagine the X5 approaches the corner under power with the front unloaded and with a little toe-in. On entry into the corner, the weight transfers forward, the front end drops down and the geometry goes toe-out just where you need it: at the entry into the corner. As you get back on the power after the aggressive turn-in, the front end raises up, the geometry goes back to toe-in and the buggy quickly rotates through the corner.

The fact is, you have to set-up your buggy with toe-out to get it to turn quickly into the corner. But the drawback is, with a toe-out set-up the buggy is loose coming off the corner under power. So with the designed X5 dynamic toe-in working for you, not only do you have quick turning while decelerating, but also quick and stable rotation around the corner under power.

So I’m not exactly sure that it is a good idea to stack all those washers under the Servo Saver Plate (E0305) or whatever you call smiley face thingy that keeps getting bent.

That is unless you like to set-up with slow turn-in and loose coming off.

Signed,
MRP Pro-180 pan car veteran.
i.e. Off road suspension neophyte.

You make some good points, but here's the reality of the situation. Mugen's engineers (Japanese) didn't design the X5 with American supercross style tracks in mind. They had long, high speed, flowing tracks in mind, where buggies jump at really high speed and the bumpsteer keeps them going on landing. Adding the 3mm of offset to the ackerman makes the car much easier to drive on the point and shoot style American tracks.

The X5 was designed to give Mugen drivers an advantage on the world stage. IFMAR worlds tracks are still designed in the European/Asian style, long, flowing with highspeed "humps" more than jumps. Cars fly through the air inches off the ground instead of feet like here in the US, landing at high speed. The added bumpsteer helps the car land more stable at these speeds, allowing the driver to get back on the gas.

In the US, we have more of a point and shoot style of track, and the consistency of not having bumpsteer is more important than stability when landing at high speed.

Easiest way to test is pick up the RatZas or Racers Edge ackerman link and test it both ways - The difference is pretty amazing.

-Jeff

[celittca]

hEY ALL, I am in the process of building my mbx-5. How come the manual doesn't say it requires grease on the gears? ????????

I am not talking about the diff's

:mad:

[the rock]

you dont have to put on greace there... but put some on.... i use blue marine greace... anywhere you see metal-to-metal... use greace...

[hung_kuen]

I am going for flat face rims next time.,..

I read some erlyer posts yesterday,do you have your own pesonal track rock:eek: ? must be awsome.
We dont get a track until this spring,i cant wait....

[the rock]

Kuen

Yeah I have my own track. We started as two guys running our cars in streets... and getting kicked out every where... we finally found a place to rent... and I desighned a track.... we are now a full blown club. Having a track make all the difference in the owrld. As a matter of fact I bought my buggy after we built the track. I use to run a rc10-gt... well I still have it... we have 1/10, 1/8 and "open" class races now... its a blast.

If anyone here ever heads to Cozumel Mexico drop me a line!!!

[the rock]

.

[the rock]

.

[hung_kuen]

Nice track rock if i am going for mexico sometime im there:)

[the rock]

Originally posted by the rock
you dont have to put on greace there... but put some on.... i use blue marine greace... anywhere you see metal-to-metal... use greace...

dont put it on your pinion :eek: ;)

[the rock]

Originally posted by hung_kuen
Nice track rock if i am going for mexico sometime im there:)

we'll make some new tire marks :cool:

[winning edge designs]

The reason the don't specify grease on the exposed gears is the fact that it would attract dirt and dust and may actually accelerate wear!......The dry gears will actually last quite long, in fact I have yet to wear out a spur gear before biulding a fresh car, only pinions/clutchbells....:)....Jim

[the rock]

Celit,

If you are talking about the spur... dont use greace there... you will have a MESS of dirt. I thought you were talking about the big gears on the dry part inside the diff cases...

[nitro22]

Can someone explain to me what the inserts do to the blocks in the rear and front of the buggy. Is it for anti squat? If so I know what that is but I don't know what the effect is from rear to front. Like low hole in rear, high hole in front. Also what does that front block do in the rear-front. Caster angle? Lastly if you move your steering link on the akerman plate to the front hole is that faster steering? I need to write this stuff down. Having a 7 month break in the winter is making me forget everything.


Hey Rock you still going to sell me that stuff? How much? I got my eye on a nice set of fioroni blue shock towers.

[celittca]

so do I need to put grease under the diff case? the big gears in front and rear. yeah I didn't put grease in the spur. That'd be stupid:D

[the rock]

ok... so we are talking about the same gears then... well like winning said, those gears can run probably forever dry without any greace. Honestly it is not necesary to add any their. I have read that people find dirt (dust) when doing a maintanance in their.

I PERSONALLY am using a tad of marine greace.... ive rebuilt about 6 times and my has been bone free of ANY dust in their.

BUT the first 2 times I left it dry just to see if I had any dust in their. After my second rebuilt it seemed as I would not have any dust, so I started applying greace. I also always make sure the diff screws under the car are nice and tight to avoid a crack to let dust in. You could also apply a thin layer of silicone were the diffs meats the chassi.... to be totally safe.

[the rock]

Originally posted by nitro22

Hey Rock you still going to sell me that stuff? How much? I got my eye on a nice set of fioroni blue shock towers.

Nitro

I spoke to hardcore last week and he estimates he will be sendning my new stuff HOPEFULLY this week. They are refining some parts some pros told them to change... but I will keep you posted.

[the rock]

Originally posted by JeffS
You make some good points, but here's the reality of the situation. Mugen's engineers (Japanese) didn't design the X5 with American supercross style tracks in mind. They had long, high speed, flowing tracks in mind, where buggies jump at really high speed and the bumpsteer keeps them going on landing. Adding the 3mm of offset to the ackerman makes the car much easier to drive on the point and shoot style American tracks.

The X5 was designed to give Mugen drivers an advantage on the world stage. IFMAR worlds tracks are still designed in the European/Asian style, long, flowing with highspeed "humps" more than jumps. Cars fly through the air inches off the ground instead of feet like here in the US, landing at high speed. The added bumpsteer helps the car land more stable at these speeds, allowing the driver to get back on the gas.

In the US, we have more of a point and shoot style of track, and the consistency of not having bumpsteer is more important than stability when landing at high speed.

Easiest way to test is pick up the RatZas or Racers Edge ackerman link and test it both ways - The difference is pretty amazing.

-Jeff

I new that had to be a reason Mugen designed it this way.

Well then the mbx5 really is a problem free car, EXCEPT for the leaky diffs!!! But if your a hardcore racer or a pro.... you or they rebuild them so peridically that its not a problem.

[the rock]

Originally posted by IBEXrax
If that something that you touched was a corrosive that would soon eat away your hands, then I would definitely recommend you wash every time.

In the case of a glow engine running mostly on methanol, the corrosive is rust that starts from the water you will get in you engine. The molecular physics at work here have to do with methanol not being happy unless its got a health percentage of water soaked up in it. The pertinent lesson here, is to realize that, the fuel you run in your buggy is constantly suck-up water out of the air from the time you first open the bottle to the last drop of the jug.

Even if you are diligent at keeping the cap on your fuel bottle, using only one quart metal fuel containers and only running your buggy when the humidity is less that five percent, you still can't keep the moisture from getting into the fuel that remains in you engine after you quit for the day. In this day and age, no racer/basher can totally know for sure if they will run tomorrow or not.

The time tested method to fight off the rust (the rust that I have seen form in less that a week) is to first run your fuel system completely dry. This means run the tank dry, run the fuel lines dry, run the fuel filter dry and run the engine crankcase completely dry.

Next clean around the carburetor and clean around the glow plug before you remove the air filter and the glow plug. With the carb full open, add just 10 to 15 drops of oil and another five onto the top of the piston. Put the air cleaner back on and then crank your motor over a few dozen times. Check the glow plug for damage and then replace or reinstall as appropriate.

If you insist on supporting you local Hobby Shop "LHS", go ahead and buy that outrageously expensive after run oil that comes in the little bottle. Or if you are struck by a brief moment of sanity, drop by the auto parts store and get a quart of Marvell Mystery oil for only four-fifty.

At a fraction of a penny for every application, It is a wise investment to lengthen the working life of you motor. And it somehow seems a good idea to at least wash your hands once at the end of the day after you last touch/run you buggy.



Nothing personal rock; just making a point.


IBEX

I checked all my cars for corrosion and I have to say 2 of them were rusting away at the glow plug. You are right!!! I will make a bigger effort to clean the motor MUCH more often.


:cool:

[celittca]

I am so stupid. I just finished building my x5 and I was putting on hobao buggy tires and didn't reliaze it wasn't wide enough and now I cannot get the back wheel out. It's stock there and won't move. When I tired to use the wrench and it will just slip inside. They fit the front okay tho. The reason why I am putting them on is to break in my C5.

god... is the pin inside the wheel hex broke or something? I applied locktite on the setscrew tho.
:( :( :( :( :( :(

[IBEXrax]

Originally posted by nitro22
break in the winter is making me forget
Me Too. But, with the on-set of “Old Timers”, it is more like weekly.
When ever I start to mess with seemingly infinite adjustment on my MBX5, I all ways refer to the Buggy Setup cheat sheet I keep in my tool box.
Buggy Setup cheat sheet is posted on Team Orion website.

http://home.tiscali.be/be067749/58/

---

[the rock]

Originally posted by IBEXrax
Me Too. But, with the on-set of “Old Timers”, it is more like weekly.
When ever I start to mess with seemingly infinite adjustment on my MBX5, I all ways refer to the Buggy Setup cheat sheet I keep in my tool box.
Buggy Setup cheat sheet is posted on Team Orion website.

http://home.tiscali.be/be067749/58/

---

COOOL DEAL IBEX...

This is great stuff.... i got something to do tonight now :)

Had a GREAT day at the track... my car ran for 9 consistant tanks without skipping a beat. There are just two turns Im having a hard time nailing under high speeds... maybe ill find some solution in these setups...

thanks

[OldskoolGT]

Originally posted by JeffS
Cars fly through the air inches off the ground instead of feet like here in the US, landing at high speed. The added bumpsteer helps the car land more stable at these speeds, allowing the driver to get back on the gas.

In the US, we have more of a point and shoot style of track, and the consistency of not having bumpsteer is more important than stability when landing at high speed.

-Jeff

How does the Mugen's bumpsteer aid in stability after landing a jump? The wheels toe outward as the suspension goes through its travel. Wouldn't this toe-out cause less stability, not more?

[the rock]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
How does the Mugen's bumpsteer aid in stability after landing a jump? The wheels toe outward as the suspension goes through its travel. Wouldn't this toe-out cause less stability, not more?

"Toe-out causes instability, so there's no point in using it at the rear of your car, it will make it undrivable. But, in the front, there's the stabilizing effect of caster. That's why a little toe-out is sometimes used in front, as long as the car has sufficient caster, instability on the straights won't be a problem."

Jeff said FAST "humps" on straights, not jumps...

read this article IBEX sent... Jeff's theory makes perfect sence... "toe-out" makes rear unstable, and front stabler in straights....

read: 3.3 toe angle - beginning of 4th paragraph.

http://home.tiscali.be/be067749/58/

[nitro22]

The set up sheet doesn't tell you what does what though. Can anyone shed some light?

[the rock]

Originally posted by nitro22
The set up sheet doesn't tell you what does what though. Can anyone shed some light?

this article tells you basically what everything does.

http://home.tiscali.be/be067749/58/

Read all the chapters.

[hung_kuen]

Great link! gues i have a LOT to learn :D

I hope i get too drive today it so mutch rain here in Norway this time a year...

[OldskoolGT]

OK. I see the point Jeff was making. I did read it incorrectly.

However, toe-out on the front end does not increase stability, which is why I don't understand how the bumpsteer can have any stabilizing effect on the car at all.

If you want your car to go have the best straight line stability, you would either have slight toe-in or 0-degrees toe-in for the front end. Toe-out makes the car less stable and increases a car's turn in ability. So isn't the toe-out caused by the bumpsteer (6 degrees by Mugen's design) causing instability as the suspension is cycled downward?

[winning edge designs]

The only reason I can come up with for the bump steer, is on-power steering. Mugen knows the K car has a push on some tracks and they needed to out steer it. The problem is the bump steer is so pronounced it's a little more then most racers care to have. It DOES cause instability, especially thru bumpy sections, as well as a visual nightmare on the workbench, LOL. With the Ratzas parts my car has "Some" bump, but not nearly as much and feels WAY better, yet only lost a little on power steering, which isn't a bad thing on some slippery florida tracks, where rear traction is very important................We should also keep in mind that we're likely using more down travel in front then the engineers intended and that has a profound effect on the bump steer. You'll notice how 60-70 percent or so comes in just before maximum travel.............It works either way, just a matter of preference........Jim

[the rock]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
OK. I see the point Jeff was making. I did read it incorrectly.

However, toe-out on the front end does not increase stability, which is why I don't understand how the bumpsteer can have any stabilizing effect on the car at all.

If you want your car to go have the best straight line stability, you would either have slight toe-in or 0-degrees toe-in for the front end. Toe-out makes the car less stable and increases a car's turn in ability. So isn't the toe-out caused by the bumpsteer (6 degrees by Mugen's design) causing instability as the suspension is cycled downward?

If you read the article 3.3 Toe-angle on that website you will read how it says that slight toe-out with the PROPER CASTER (key element) on the front end will make it slightly more stable on the straights.

So under a high speed "hump" landing, under compression.... the slight toe-out the front end gives will stableize the car, on a straight.

[OldskoolGT]

Rock,

Toe-out will never increase stability. What that article says is that the castor of the front end can provide stability that the toe-out takes away.

W.E.D Jim's explanation makes a lot more sense since it actually makes sense. :)


Speaking of front end suspension travel, has anyone noticed how much travel the buggy has if you use the inner shock mounting location on the front suspension arm? It gives the buggy way more droop than anything else. Someone just needs to figure out a setup to work with the shocks mounted that way.

[the rock]

Oldschool

It no where says that. Its saying that with the correct combo of caster and toe-out it will increase stability, it even says some people run with some toe-out.

After reading Jeffs emplanation and reading this article.. its pretty clear.

Mugen is VERY sofisticated and an extrememly experienced company. They are not going to design a defect as such out of stupidity. There is a reason for all the geometry. Your talking about a leading company in these designs who have some of the best racers and engineers who eat, sleep and poo these desighns to have the cutting edge over its competition.

hmmmm... It also makes me wonder why MUGEN has replaced all their defected parts with upgrades available to us. Like.... stronger front and lower hinge pin plates, stronger shock towers, ... and and... a stronger ackerman plate because they bend. But did they "FIX" the bumpsteer? NOT!!! WHY? because its MEANT to be their. That to me... makes more sence.

Now dont get me wrong, im about to "upgrade" to the ratzas ackerman plate becasue its not a benefit to my track. If I raced in the Euro/Asian taking it off would be a "de-grade".

[OldskoolGT]

Rock,

This is a direct quote from that RC handling site:

Toe-out causes instability, so there's no point in using it at the rear of your car, it will make it undrivable. But, in the front, there's the stabilizing effect of caster. That's why a little toe-out is sometimes used in front, as long as the car has sufficient caster, instability on the straights won't be a problem. The 'instable effect' will be noticeable though: while turning into corners. Turning in will feel more immediate and more aggressive.


To summarize, toe-out in the front doesn't increase stability. The instability caused by toe-out in the front end can be mitigated by caster.

And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was ackerman plate was designed in error, because Mugen obviously wasn't thinking when they put such a flimsy part in the car to begin with.

[the rock]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
Rock,

This is a direct quote from that RC handling site:

The 'instable effect' will be noticeable though: while turning into corners. Turning in will feel more immediate and more aggressive.

And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was ackerman plate was designed in error, because Mugen obviously wasn't thinking when they put such a flimsy part in the car to begin with.

Read it again... from the quote: The 'instable effect' will be noticeable though: while turning into corners. Turning in will feel more immediate and more aggressive.

We all agree and the article agrees that in corners its "instable effect", the bumpsteer wasnt desighned for corners.

I have had my car for almost 4 gallons to it... I just recently changed my ackerman plate, but I never bent it... after about 3 tanks I replaced it only because I thought it took out the bump steer.... but it doenst.

So maybe they never bent it on their tests. Even if they did, its all relevent. Its less expensive in production and they can sell hop-ups.

I personally have the aftermarket MUGEN ackerman plate. If it was a mistake they would have built this one with no bump steer. If anyone has one you can clearly see were they shimmed the aluminum at the ends to keep the bump steer. If they didnt want it they would have just left it solid. So for them to shimm specifically there, they obviously know what they are doing.

I can say it would be smart for them to offer both.

.

[the rock]

what ever the case is... im getting rid of the bump steer, my track has no use for it.

[OldskoolGT]

Rock,

I am not talking about the increased turn in that toe-out provides.

The point I was trying to make, is that toe-out doesn't increase stability in the front, so I dont think the bumpsteer is not going to have a stabilizing effect on the car as Jeff wrote. It might make the car turn better, but it is not going to help stability.

You seem to be under the impression that toe-out can contribute to stability (when combined with caster). It won't. The caster is doing the stabilizing, not the toe-out. Toe-out never adds stability.

[the rock]

:rolleyes:

I still think under fast low high speed landing... the bump steer if both tires are pulling the same, will help stabalize the car for that thousands of a second... as I understand it

what ever the case....

ride hard oldschool

;) :cool:

[OldskoolGT]

Well all this bumpsteer talk makes me curious about the new GS buggy. The way the steering links attach to the steering knuckle/pivot ball carrier appears to be a much more modern design than what Kyosho or Mugen are using (looks like what is on a electric buggy. Should be interesting to see how GS thinks bump steer should be addressed since Kyosho and Mugen have such different ideas on the subject.

[celittca]

feel really fed up setting the brakes and the throttle. I am currently using the stock setup. or do you guys think it might be the screws that on brake pads are too long? :(

[IBEXrax]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
Toe-out never adds stability.
When you are bicycling up on two wheels and about to go over on your lid: Toe-out adds stability!

Snicker Snicker.

[the rock]

there you go!!! that would drop the rear end right down... coolio foolio

[the rock]

Originally posted by IBEXrax
When you are bicycling up on two wheels and about to go over on your lid: Toe-out adds stability!

Snicker Snicker.

HA... thats funny you bring that up... this weeknd I almost flipped my lid 2 times.... JAMMIN down a straight my rear caught a hole... and my car hand stood for about 4 feet... and didnt go over amazingly... My reactions were... GOD I LOVE THIS CAR!!!

I think if I was driving a k2 I would have done a back flop ;)

[the rock]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
Well all this bumpsteer talk makes me curious about the new GS buggy. The way the steering links attach to the steering knuckle/pivot ball carrier appears to be a much more modern design than what Kyosho or Mugen are using (looks like what is on a electric buggy. Should be interesting to see how GS thinks bump steer should be addressed since Kyosho and Mugen have such different ideas on the subject.

this one oldschool?:

http://www.nitro-cars.de/GS_Storm_Pro/gs_storm_pro.html