Kyosho Kanai Edition III competition buggy

[StevePond]

Details are not clear yet about this new buggy. Kyosho appears ready to release a new 1/8 off-road racing machine at the upcoming Tokyo hobby show the weekend of October 9th to the 12th. This is sure to be the most featured K buggy to date.

http://www.rccaraction.com/pics/kyosho/mp75k3.jpg

http://www.rccaraction.com/pics/kyosho/mp75k3_details.jpg

[Godspeed]

Too bad..the image is too small. Anyway, any updates of any changes from the kanai 2? Thanks.

[OldskoolGT]

Check the K1/K2 thread for some details on the K3.

[-=ADA$=-]

itll probably have the sirio kanai engine!!

[the rock]

what exactly does it mean when its an "evolution" version.

Same K2 with upgrades... old technology? Or is it new from the ground up?

[StevePond]

"Evolution" editions are based on the same car, so I'm assuming it will be based on the K2 platform with some significant upgrades and option parts. Call it old technology if you want, but it's the current World Champion.

[the rock]

I never was bagging it... I was just trying to define the term.

Thx

[the rock]

Steve,

I currently own a mbx5 with a sw7-II.... this is my first buggy ever. Ive fiddled with 1/10 gt's forever. When I went out to by my buggy I basically wanted the best money could buy. I called my local hobby shop and told them to set me up.

I didnt do much research between mugen and kyosho, so I went in blind. My hobby guy told me of the new x5, and according to him, the x5 is beyond anything out, that it was completely redesigned from the ground up.

Whats your opinion on this? I know that it has yet to prove itself.

This is the first buggy I have driven, and I have to say that it is insane. It handles like its on rails and its incredibly stable on the ground and in flight. I cant make the car crash if I wanted to (well almost :)

Now since I have never driven another buggy or even seen one in action in real life... well... I just don't know any better.

In your honest opinion, is the x5 BECOMING the newest standard?

If you agree that its beyond the K2, do you think the K3 will once again defeat mugen's top car? Im sure its to soon to tell...

But I would at least like to hear an honest opinion between the x5 vs k2.

You are close to all the real action and im sure you hear all the feed back from pro's and testers etc..

Thanks Steve....

[the rock]

I know its a titious question to answer....

dont worry... :cool:

[BlutoSigPi]

Originally posted by StevePond
http://www.rccaraction.com/pics/kyosho/31273.gif

Pricing on the K2 is already so high it's almost a joke...curious to see what this beauty will cost.

[the rock]

teditious :)

[vad]

Rock,
Ive spoken to two fellow racers who have worked on and owned both the X5 and K2, both tell me the same thing. Both the X5 and the 7.5 drive the same and quality is the same. Neither car will have an advantage over the other. It will all come down to the drivers, how is the fastest and most consistant thats your winner. The cars have nothing to do with it.

[the rock]

thanks vad..

your right... im sure you cant go wrong with eighter of them...

put Ricky Charmichael on a Yamaha and he will still be the king...

rock

[nad138]

Rock, I own both the K2 and the X5, and all I have to say is, it's hard to just stick to just one every single weekend, so what I do is I alternate them. There are things that I like on one and not the other and vise versa.

[Godspeed]

Originally posted by vad
Rock,
Ive spoken to two fellow racers who have worked on and owned both the X5 and K2, both tell me the same thing. Both the X5 and the 7.5 drive the same and quality is the same. Neither car will have an advantage over the other. It will all come down to the drivers, how is the fastest and most consistant thats your winner. The cars have nothing to do with it.


I agree..if you put the best drivers behind a mugen, i am sure mugen will prove itself. It boils down to the driver. :D

[-=ADA$=-]

i think X5 has very many good ideas put in it, like lay dow servo, or arms attached to diffs, i think it could be something new, but not new standard, there is no such thing as standard, everything can change!! But X5 is a great start!!

[TexRacer]

I have Both cars and would say I like Mugen's Universals better,diffs seem to last longer and the car simply TURNS better.
I drove a kanai2 for a long while and was a die hard Kyosho fan,but I will say the Mugen MBX5 is a better car with my yrs of experience.The kyosho doesnt turn as well on tighter turns or tracks.

I wanna address a issue with alot of the 1/8th scale guys out there.May be the WRONG post but needs to be addressed.If you guys are serious about Power be SURE you look at the size of the track you are racing on.
If you have a smaller track with alot of tight area's why are you guys SOOOO worried about top end motor's with 7 ports or more?
Do you guys not get that you will NEVER use these motor's.Unless your track is 140ft or actually about 160 or bigger these Big Top End motor's are no good.I run a P5 and a CMB raptor and I kill these guys with these Big Bad 7 or more ported motor's due to leaving them in the dust in the infield area's and definatelly holding my own on the straights.
Just use some thought when purchasing motor's for your car.There is NO BEST but there might be a BEST for your application.
If racing goodluck and just remeber if racing buy quality.There is no CHEAP way out.Sorry.

[OldskoolGT]

I think it comes down to preference more than anything else since the two buggies handle quite a bit differently. I have both buggies too, and I prefer my Kyosho.


What tracks do you race at Tex Racer?

[the rock]

I seriously cant imagine a car performing better than this mugen... but... what do I know... its my first buggy experience

[OldskoolGT]

I don't think its about one buggy performing better, but rather handleing in a way that suits the driver. Some drivers can go faster in a Mugen, and some go faster in a Kyosho.

[vad]

Tex Racer....
About motors that are toooo powerful for small tracks there is no such thing. It all depends on set up of the car the eng and the clutch.

One thing to keep in mind it doesnt matter which car you have the 7.5 or the X5 it all comes down to set up. A driver can make the car drive like a Snail, push like an elephant, wiggle like a snake or have a car which is riding on rails. Its all in the set up. I hear the K2 car can steer just as good as the X5 if not better, just depends on who you are.

[StevePond]

This particular thread is about a new version of the Kyosho buggy, lets please stay on that subject.

[StevePond]

Here's a better pic that someone emailed to me...

[guswiththemugen]

I gotta say i am surprised Kyosho have pushed out this evolution. Im shure youve guessed im a Mugen man but the X-5 is an awsome buggy and i think Kyosho need more than an evo to justify the allready over priced Kanai in comparison to the Mugen. Saying that i do agree the driver is the biggest factor in a win but a good car has gotta help. Kyoshos time is up for the best buggy at this point in time.:cool:

[the rock]

GUS

Couldnt agree more...

[wjj]

Its not much more than a mugen (the price has gone down some, while the mugen has increased), and its still better. The parts for the new mugen cost just as much or more than the parts for the kyosho. It also takes more work to get the mugen to perform well.

[the rock]

kyosho is out dated. lets face it. im sure they have something up their sleeve

[atm92484_3]

How do you figure it is outdated? Kyosho has made a few running changes on the car's suspension to keep it up to date, but even then, some of the changes may fair better on certain tracks and with certain driving styles compared with others. IMO this is much better than completely redoing the buggy everytime they want to change something. Atleast the people who already own the car can upgrade and they aren't totally screwed over and forced to drop $1500+ on a new buggy every other season when something small is changed for a slight gain in performance. I'm not denying the Kanais are a hair overpriced though. It would be really nice if this thing went for $650.

jmo

[the rock]

well im not trying to stir up friction between us fellow members... but usually a car should have a 3 or 4 year run with upgrades and then, if technological advances let a company re-design and evolutionize an all ready great product.... then they should...

we see it all the time with real cars. Just about every car company completely re-designs cars from the ground up every few years...

Mugen just went from the Nissan 300zx to the 350zx... when Kyosho is still modifing the 300zx's suspension etc...

[OldskoolGT]

I think the Kyosho is more like a MKIV Supra. It might be getting old, but its still a pretty awesome car. Mugen had to come up with a new buggy (which has very Kyosho-like suspension). The old XR was never competitive with the 7.5 on a bumpy track. The 7.5 is still competitive against any car on any track.

[the rock]

agree with you 100%... wasnt my point. The zx and suspension was just an example...

but they are both the best cars money can buy... (.)

cant go wrong with any of the two.

[KanaiDude]

I was racing my K2 against an x5 last weekend, he showed up with his pretty car, 3PK, he was all set, my kyosho spanked his X5 around every turn, he had a fake smile on and said wow, you pounded me the whole race, oh I love it. I am sure in the right hands the car can win, but all those guys are on the kyosho team, go figure. I only saw 1 X5 and almost all kysoho buggies in the top 10 at the summer nats this year (he did place 2nd i think). Mugen is on the rise, but I still think kyosho has the step up in the 1/8 off-road, now talk about any on-road class, well that's a whole lot different. JM2CENTS!

[atm92484_3]

I don't know if you guys have seen this or not, but it looks like Kyosho has more info about the K3 on their Japanese site. I converted the price on the page (78,000 yen) and it came out to $720 USD (I'm taking a wild guess that this is retail). Knowing GPMD though, we won't see this car for that price. :(

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?url=http://www.kyosho.co.jp/rc_model/buggy/inferno/inferno_kanai3/inferno_kanai3-j.html&lp=ja_en&tt=url'

If it doesn't load, keep trying.

[OldskoolGT]

One interesting thing to note is that the K3 is less expensive than the K2 (85,000 Yen).

[rbos]

I owned both, I have 4 kanair & 2 mbx 5. Each one is good in its own way. The fit and finish is much better on the Kyosho than the MBX5. There is $100 diff in price, but remember, the Kanai comes w/ 2 LSD's. parts wise, they are almost the same. People are saying MBX5 is 1/2 lb lighter than the K2, but I actually measured both. They are within 1-2 oz of each other.

I have sold all my mbx5 becasue I found driving two different cars is bad for my driving. My other friend also sold his mbx5 and return to Kanai becasue he like the Kyosho more. He had a K2 before MBX5.

It will be a never ending debate on which is the best buggy. One thing for sure, that the competition btwn them will help bring better buggies to us RC people. If only Kyosho will match K3 with Mugen's $500 price, it will be nice.

[atm92484_3]

Speaking of pricing, has anyone seen a Japanese Kyosho site with the retail prices of the Kanai I or II on it in Yens. I'm curious as to whether or not Great Planes is charing retail on the car in the U.S.

[the rock]

I know people that got rid of their K2's after driving the X5. One thing we all must see is that Mugen has come a long way. Before the X5, Kyosho had the best buggy hands down, no questions asked.

Now the situation is that K2 and X5 owners cant really decide what they like better... it goes both ways with both cars.

Like rbos said... this will just bring better cars to us...

thank goodness for competition...

[1822]

Originally posted by atm92484_3
Speaking of pricing, has anyone seen a Japanese Kyosho site with the retail prices of the Kanai I or II on it in Yens. I'm curious as to whether or not Great Planes is charing retail on the car in the U.S.

The K3 is 78000 yen or about 700 bucks retail in Japan. The funny thing is the K2 lists at 85000 yen so this new car should be cheaper.

[the rock]

I just drove a K2 and I have to say the X5 is a much stabler, im sure it has to do a lot with the low center gravity. The K2 just doesnt drive as well...... same opinion with 3 other people that test drove, and they own Ofnas... first time they had ever touched the X5 or K2...

I have a nice 70 foot straight with some terrible inperfections, and the K2 just couldnt handle the high speed bumps, lost control almost everytime... the X5 plows through them like a grasshopper.... bouncing and everything... but always goes straight....

This guy has had his car some time and had it all set up correctly, and even he admitted that the X5 was a nicer ride and easier to drive...

Sorry K2 owners, but everything comes to an end.......

MUSWAGON....
:cool:

[wjj]

May be you should learn to set up the k2 right. There is no proof that the mbx5 is any better than the k2. The x5 imitates the k2 and you guys think its better. Go to the mbx5 thread and you will see that everyone there is making big changes (buying different parts, using parts from the k2) to their cars to make them competative.

[OldskoolGT]

I dunno guys. Running a borrowed K2 on a track one time does sound like a very comprehensive and exhaustive evaluation of the buggy doesn't it? Guess I will put my K2 on ebay tonight. Rock has a very convincing arguement.


I will say this about the X5. After buying the kit, it makes me appreciate my Kyosho much more.

[the rock]

im on that thread and the only part they inter-exchanged was a nut to secure the screw that holds the brake levers on the horn... woopi

and as far as hop up parts, me being one whos bought after market components for my x5 (like any rc owner) are just stronger and thicker parts... that have NOTHING to do with k2 parts, just your usual hop-up parts available for ALL rc's.

[the rock]

yeah OLDSHOOL... a die hard Kyosho fan will never turn there back... its like trying to convince a ford guy to buy chevy...

its ok... we all have our opinions, about 10 tanks of bashing both convinced me quite easy... i dont need to run an Ofna MBX PRO (a car we have out there) or a k2 for a year to know what car drives better... I have been driving RC cars for 15 years... besides 4 out of 4 drivers agreed... including the die hard owner of the k2.. whats he gonna say when its in his face...

sorry if this stirred anything up.... I will try and be a little more constructive next time... onword and upword...

[the rock]

OLDSHOOL

Have to say you killed me on the bump steer...

Im a 15 year vet on rc's and didnt know what bump steer is!!!

:cool:

[wjj]

I was talking about "the starting grid" which is a site for mugens. I believe most drivers just say that in order to explain a irrational buying response, so they convince themselves its better because its new.

[the rock]

new or old.. all I know is that I had faster lap times on the x5, thats all that matters... I can also debate that a Yamaha YZ250 is more controllable than a Honda CR250 due to the "give" in the tube chassi over the honda rigid aluminum frame... I race motor cross on the expert level... but again.. what do I know right...

the truth is...... its just what fits you.

peace brother :)

[slant930]

I have seen many K2's and a few X5's @ the track and it all comes down to setup, the driver, and a little luck. That guy with the K2 setup "correctly" must not have had his car set up right. I have seen them both handle the same kind of track awesome with good setup or crappy with a bad one, same thing goes for drivers.

The Evo III is one more change to an "outdated" basic design that flat out works and wins World Championships, Kyosho doesn't need to totally redesign it if it works.

I do agree that the K cars do cost a little too much today, I bought my MP-6 International for just under 600 a couple years ago, and with it I can still beat quite a few of the guys and gals driving both K2's and X-5's.

Just don't tell Ricky Carmichael his CR250 isn't that controllable or he might not win the 2004 AMA Championship the way he won the 2003 AMA Championship.:D

[the rock]

exactly my point 911turbo...

put Carmi on a pewee and he will win the supercross.... but he will also come to an end....

[StevePond]

Again, this is a thread about the KIII buggy, not a "this vs. that" thread. There are plenty of those elsewhere on the forum - please find them if you want to continue this comparison debate.

[Striker]

Is there a release date yet for the K3? I mean here in the states.

[rbos]

When k2 first came out. I converted one of my K1 to K2. Otherthan $250 out of my pocket, I can't really feel that much difference. Alot of of the K2 parts were already available before the k2 came out and most people's racing K1 are almost k2 spec other than the 3.5 mm shocks.

I do feel a lot of difference, however, when a good powerful engine is installed on the buggy. It makes the night and day difference. I say spend your money on a good motor for now and wait for the MP 8.5 when it comes out. I think it will probably have 2 lay down servos (That is the trend on the on road cars).

Just my 2 cents.

Mr Admin, thanks for cleaning up this forum.

[the rock]

ditto Steve... even though I started it... :cool:

[rbos]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3154436592&category=49213

[rbos]

repost w/ correct auction number

3154436592

[fezzy]

$825, Who in there right mind would pay that for one!

[StevePond]

I think someone already pointed out that, at least in Japan, the retail price of the K3 is lower than the K2. The guy selling the car on eBay is clearly trying to turn a buck on someone who just has to have it first. I bet someone buys it for that price. ;)

[slant930]

Hey everybody, here is a translation about the K3 from kyosho's web site:

The machine of the wonder no one has achieved, continues continual conquest with IFMAR1/8 buggy world championship? #12452;ƒ“ƒtƒ@�[ƒm MP-7.5? #12290;IFMAR champion of the world Kanai 2000 —S know-how of excellence of one player, has breathed in the entire body. The chassis which continues to evolve in order to maintain the seat of most speed to receive edition 3 more and more, to the pole of maturity. This it is enormous in very you who admit the expert bodily sensation we would like to receive.


You adopt the new model chassis plate, actualizing light weight conversion. A higher rigidity and strength, pliant running possibly.
Standard equipping titanium bis, actualizing light weight conversion. (Approximately 50% bis)
With the adoption of the front special upper suspension holder, strength and rigidity improving substantially, strengthening combat power.
Suspension stroke can be utilized, adopting the new model rear damper which the shaft 2 mm is extended. Showing the attenuation characteristic which is superior.
Including the upper deck, increasing strength in the part of the various parts, the color equipping the private item which is coordinated.
Equipping the brake guard which protects the braking section from the fuel which overflowed. Acquiring heat dissipation characteristic and the meat quality where the aluminum make 3 piece clutch shoes are superior.
Original champion of the world Kanai —S merchandising the special specification of one player. The ultimate machine which furthermore evolved 2.
Skid angle of rear suspension plate from 2 times increase to 3 times. Furthermore actualizing smooth operation.
It modifies suspension arm form, extending the enlargement and rebound side stroke in steering wheel being cut off angle.
Optimizing steering wheel operation with modification of mounting hole position of the steering wheel plate.
Bevel gear adoption of floating mechanism. You install LSD before, promising the running the whole distance characteristic which is stabilized.
Full bearing specification low showing high combat power in the center of gravity which it is thorough design.
The aerodynamic body which generates powerful down fourth promising the advantage with race/lace.

The chassis is part# IFW151 soon to be available here. Tower shows it for $115 it is supposed to be about 40 grams lighter and be machined out and made of 7075 aluminum.

Sorry for the long post but, I figured a lot of people would want to know.:)

[Butcher]

I called Tower Hobbies, and asked about a release date for the K3, and they told me late January and it's already on back order,It will be listed for $809.00

I'm just going by what they told me.

[atm92484_3]

Leave it to Great Planes to sell it for more than the retail price. :rolleyes:

[hung_kuen]

Does anybody know were to back order it?
It looks awsome.......

[BlutoSigPi]

Originally posted by Butcher
I called Tower Hobbies, and asked about a release date for the K3, and they told me late January and it's already on back order,It will be listed for $809.00

I'm just going by what they told me.

:eek: Figured as much. You'd think they would include stuff like SHOCK OIL and DIFF FLUID for that price. Typical Kyo$ho..

[atm92484_3]

Even if they did include the fluids, 90% of people would toss them in the trashcan for something thats suited to their driving style or track. Afterall the Kanais are race cars and the people running them are generally racing and just dumping some random fluid in the shocks and diffs just won't work. Kyosho needs to drop the price to maybe $50 or $100 higher than the Mugen IMO. They'll sell a lot more that way and make more money (afterall, why get a Mugen when you can have the world renouned K3 for a few dollars more?)

[vad]

Forget the K3... Ive seen prices from online hobby shop for k2 for 570, ultimate hobbies...

[hung_kuen]

Whats the difference between k2 and k3 besides the chassieplate

[Hairball]

Originally posted by hung_kuen
Whats the difference between k2 and k3 besides the chassieplate

Its a newer model to promote more sales, there isn't much of a difference.

Hell, my Kanai one isn't much differenet from the K2. Biggest thing was the TCD diffs in the K2, which most people ditch anyway.,.

[OldskoolGT]

Originally posted by BlutoSigPi
:eek: Figured as much. You'd think they would include stuff like SHOCK OIL and DIFF FLUID for that price. Typical Kyo$ho..

I'd rather get the typical Kyosho quality as opposed to a non-Kyosho kit that comes with a few cents worth of silicone oils.



The K3 does have quite a few changes over the K2. Besides the lightened chassis, you also get titanium screws, new rear shocks, new front end geometry, and a new ackerman plate.

[Hairball]

I think the the Mugen X5 with its pillow ball suspension is superior to the Kanai design. A friend of mine has an X5, and its runs smooth.

Kyosho just hase better long term parts support than Mugen does. Its more expensive too though.

[OldskoolGT]

Pivotball is nice, but does it really outperform c-hub? I like the ease of adjustability witht my X5, but I have never been able to make the buggy steer like I want it to (like my K2).

[hung_kuen]

I am getting a k3 att e-bay fore 749.99 thats the same price tower charges fore k2,and yeah i know about ultimate hobbies that got k2 fore 579.99 but they dont ship to places like Norway.

And the best thing is that im gonna save some green on it anywayz cause Norway is expensive.

Please give me a notice if you find a better offer or something.

Thanks :D

[guswiththemugen]

Hung my friend, your in luck! Ive done some research and found a far better deal which im surprised you missed. The deal is an MBX-5 and the place to get it is anywhere............come on, someone had to say it.:p

[Fidelio]

I found some information you guys might be interested in. :D


Part Variations between K2 and K3

New Part Old Part Comments
IF122C IF122 Front and Rear Lower Suspension Arm. Harder material. Delrin? Machined for more clearance at chassis set screws and shock rod end. Front has outer reinforcement for hubs.
IF124B Part191 1degree 1degree Rear toe blocks. Replaced the old 1degree block Part191 with new 2.5degree. 60mm width instead of 54mm?
IF136BL IF136 Radio Plate. Changed to Blue Color. Maybe harder duraluminum?
IF137B IF137 Fuel Tank. New one has silver filter instead of gold.
IFW124B IFW124 Hard Upper Rod. Probably longer for new shorter front upper arm.
IFW129 B Holder IFW128 A Holder Front Lower Suspension Holder. K2 had A set, K3 has B set.
IFW137B IFW137 Front Upper Arm. Different material…delrin? Shortened by 4mm.
IFW138 and IFW139 IFW139 Front Hub Carrier. Now comes with both 20 and 22 degree.
IFW144 None Front Body Stay. 1mm thick shaped piece of plastic for reinforcement. Have to glue it on. Also comes with small tab for rear.
IFW145 None SP Front Shock Stay.
IFW147 None SP Front Upper Suspension Holder.
IFW148 None Transponder Stay. Was an option part before.
IFW149 IFW141 Rear shock kit. 141 had 55mm shock case and 61mm shaft. New 149 has 57mm shock case and 63mm shock shaft.
IFW150 IFW2 Tie Rods. New Harder material adjustable tie rod.
IFW151 IFW101 SP Main Chassis. 40g lighter. 3mm anodized duraluminum.
IFW153 IFW126BL Steering Plate. Different tie rod mounting locations. Steering Pin bushing does not fit snugly, makes steering loose. Also needs shims between servo saver and plate and servo saver and brace.
ORG03BK None Black Silicone O-Rings for fuel tank anti-vibration mounts between screw and tank. None before.
ORG06 BSW63 Orange Silicone O-Rings for gearboxes.
None IFW119 TCD Assembly Center. A regular diff was included in the K3 kit.
IF58 IFW36 Disk Plate Bolt. New bolt is shorter since there's only a single disc brake.
Titanium Screws None Titanium Screws. Not a complete set. Mainly the for chassis and bulkheads.

New Option Parts
IFW146 SP Front Upper Suspension Holder. A-Type/Red. Aluminum.

[Hairball]

Thats some good info you posted there. I did that once with a K1 to K2 part sheet.

Too bad Kyosho doesn't offer an "upgrade" kit.

[Henderson]

Too bad Kyosho doesn't offer an "upgrade" kit.

I've been wondering about the same thing. I have the K2 and i'd be interested in an upgrade kit. Seems like Kyosho would sell a lot of them. Most guys into this level of buggy want the latest and greatest whether they need it or not (me included), witnessed by the number of Fioroni, Racers Edge parts etc. sold., and also by the number of guys who upgraded their original Kanais to K2's.

Granted i can just go buy the K3 parts individually but a kit in a box would be nice.

[Hairball]

Originally posted by Henderson
I've been wondering about the same thing. I have the K2 and i'd be interested in an upgrade kit. Seems like Kyosho would sell a lot of them. Most guys into this level of buggy want the latest and greatest whether they need it or not (me included), witnessed by the number of Fioroni, Racers Edge parts etc. sold., and also by the number of guys who upgraded their original Kanais to K2's.

Granted i can just go buy the K3 parts individually but a kit in a box would be nice.

On that same note, buying each part individually is EXPENSIVE to say the least. I'm sure a "kit" would reduce consumer costs, improving sales.

But then again, Kyosho doesn't want to sell you parts, they want all the K1 and K2 people to junk there buggies, and buy a K3.....

[OldskoolGT]

Just go to ebay for your upgrade kit needs. I am sure there will eventually be plenty of K3 parts being parted out which will keep the prices reasonable.

I don't plan on junking my K2, but I will definitely be buying a K3 and probably keep my K2 as a backup/practice car.

[GTA]

I'm also looking at both cars. The K2/3 is looking most likely as I think spares are available from more hobby shops. The Mugen looks better with the carbon though, I'll admit. But looks arn't everything, as many of the optional alloy parts look lovely at the expense of reducing performance.

I want whichever car is the strongest, easiest to set up on brakes etc, and has the easiest to get spares. Which one is it then?

[atm92484_3]

I can't speak about the X5's, but on the 7.5s, you can get to pretty much anything on the car within a matter of about a minute or two. C-hub suspension cars are infinitely easier to set up though since you don't need to worry about precisely how far each pivot ball is screwed in or out. Pivot balls and dirt aren't exactly the best mix either. There isn't really a wrong choice between the K3 and X5; afterall they are the #1 and #2 buggies in the world.

This is just some of my rambling, but on the pro level theres obviously a need for light weight. For us week-end racers though is that little weight really going to matter? Take an extremely popular .21 like the P5 or WS7-I/II; any of these engines can overpower a K1/2/3 or a X4/5 any day of the week and on 95% of the offroad tracks out there.

[Henderson]

For us week-end racers though is that little weight really going to matter? Take an extremely popular .21 like the P5 or WS7-I/II; any of these engines can overpower a K1/2/3 or a X4/5 any day of the week and on 95% of the offroad tracks out there.

True. Except in the case of my engine, apparently. I was one of the suckers that bought the O.S. VZ-B right away, and based on everything i've been reading it will soon be producing little if any power due to poor piston design. Oh well...i love it right now (1 gallon through it) in my K2.

More to the point, the track i race at is indoors which is nice (in the winter) but it's really a 1/10 scale track. So yeah, a P5, WS7-II etc. is definitely overkill even without lightening the K2. I'd probably get better lap times with less engine. It's a pride thing though. Seems like a shame to put a lesser engine in the best buggy in the world, right?

[OldskoolGT]

I think slightly too much power is just enough. :)

It seems to me that if you don't have as much engine as everyone else, you will loose ground to eveyone as they pull away from you after each turn. That's been my experience with weak "sport" engines in eigth scale. And yes, the Kyosho buggy deserves a top notch engine.

GTA,

I think Mugen probably has a slight edge when it comes to spare parts as the Kyosho parts supply is dependent on what Great Planes decides to carry. For Mugen parts, Nitrohouse is excellent. There's an excellent supply of Kyosho parts from parted out kits on ebay though, which is my #1 source of parts. The Kyosho is the absolute best buggy straight out of the box compared to all others.

[the rock]

gta

parts... mugen is more commonly carried by dealers, and less expensive. best buggy.... when mugen had the x4, kyosho was hands down the best. x5, you'll have to drive them both to really see whats better. I picked the x5. did lots of research and read what current x5 owners and k2 owners liked better. i have to say i heard better things of the x5. the x5 has a few little things you have to look out for out of the box, but nothing out of this world.

i drove them both and hands down the x5 is better in MY opinion. its lighter, and felt lighter, nicer in flight and took faster turns under control. I have 3 1/2 gallons on my car and couldnt be happeir.

which is the best buggy... only time will tell.

lots of titanuim parts will be available from racinghardcore in the next two weeks for the x5.

[sLiTcH]

when

[the rock]

now...

im just being nice

[the rock]

.

[Hobbytown Racer]

Originally posted by the rock
lots of titanuim parts will be available from racinghardcore in the next two weeks for the x5.

hahahahaha..... 2 weeks, that's classic. Inside joke on the S-Grid if you've been to that site. :D

I still have the K1, I bought it ussed in very clean good condition from a friend that got it right after it hit the shelves at hobbyshops. Finished 2nd 2 times in the last 3 years at our region 2 nitro events. I plan on using e-bay to get a handful of K2 parts and tighten everything up so it ready to race for next season. Then again, there's a indoor offroad track being built less then an hour away from me that will race 8th scale and gas truck so.... :D :D :D

[the rock]

ive talked to the designer myself... he has an x5 of his own... 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, who cares.... they will be available.

;)

[Hobbytown Racer]

hahahahaha, like I said, the "2 weeks" thing is a inside joke. Guess you haven't been to that site.... anyway, happy turkey day... :)

[the rock]

must be a real inside joke because its totally over my head... i visit that site almost everyday... nooooo idea what you are talking about... I guess thats the entire point...

www.racinghardcore.com

Happy turky day to you too

[the rock]

http://www.truffulatree.com.au/twoweeks/

hahaha... theirs 2 weeks for ya

[KanaiDude]

Think i'll just wait till the upgrades hit ebay and probably be able to bye them all at 200 bucks from one of the three great k parts sellers on there, priority mail to your door in days. The mugen is great buggy "for the price" but I still feel the original K2 buggy design is going to be hard to beat for a while anyway. Once the K3 comes out maybe we'll have a small price drop on some K2 parsts even though they will still be the same, K2 on ebay will go down some, so i'll still be able to keep my buggy in perfect condition for what 2-3 years. Untill I see mugen in more then 1 out of the top ten spots in the off road nats then maybe that will be something to talk about.

[the rock]

its all in the driver dude... x5 is to new... and its obvious you havnt driven the x5

:cool:

[Hobbytown Racer]

Rock, I drove an X5 and wasn't to impressed. Although it wasn't set up for my style it still didn't seem to drive like I thought it would. It was a car that made the show at a local big event and finished 4th or 5th. He had a P5 in it and the way he had the clutch set-up was like an on/off switch. I was ready to buy one and felt convinced that I could get it to work but then I looked at my K1 and just couldn't part with it for a car I never owned. :) X5 is good but so is a K_. :D

[KanaiDude]

No I haven't driven one yet, I wouldn't mind if someone would let me. I haven't seen one perform well yet either though (maybe 1 or2). It will be interesting to see though how it does in the next few years, because IMO most of the good drivers drive K buggies so that's where it will hard for the x5 to catch up in the results at big races, which inevitably does help in selling there cars. I'm still sticking to my K2 am in the process of rebuild with all carbon fiber, jt chasis P5, and I do sick airbrush work, i'll post a pic soon... I hope more people buy X5's in my area (NC) to add some spice to the track, is like racing a gs fioroni buggy just is more fun then racing all K2'S!

[Hobbytown Racer]

Accually, Chad Bradley (team Mugen) finished second over the weekend at HRH against most of the top dogs. Just so you know, 8 cars finished the race and there was only a 18 second sread in the top 3. The real kicker is, Travis the "Peanut" Amunez <spelling) driving a HB (Hot Bodies) lightening Pro won!!!! He had the advantage though, running truck tires mounted on 8th scale wheels. Chad was using Proline M2 CF's.

[the rock]

gents:

http://www.mugenseiki.com/2003jmrcaoff-e.htm

thats funny about the lighting pro win.... but in all fairness... the two buggys are the best and the titles can go either way... but the driver has almost everything to do with it.... put Ricky Charm on a Yamaha and I guerentee he would still be the champ.

Kanaidude.... that would be cool if we had some K2's at our local track... they are all X5's, one K2 came once...

lets just be happy there are two such competitive buggys, company competition will just bring us better cars...

:cool:

[munim]

A Lightning Pro winning is basically a 7.5 winning,LOL.Hehe:p

[tphss]

Before this came out I was sure i;m going to buy the Mugen MBX-5, now i'm not that sure, waiting for a review of this buggy.

[the rock]

heres a review for you...

how about the mbx4 almost getting better reviews than the K2, these guys thought the mbx4 corners better than the K2... HEHE :D

http://www.rcnitro.com/rn/articles/buggy_showd.asp

SORRY for getting of the subject again Steve

[OldskoolGT]

rock

this is the Kyosho forum. Nobody here cares about the MBX4. And if you had any experience with one, you would truly understand how inferior it is compared to the Kyosho. If you like turning so much, get yourself a Crono RS01. Those turn in better than either the Kyosho or X5.

[tphss]

Originally posted by the rock
heres a review for you...

how about the mbx4 almost getting better reviews than the K2, these guys thought the mbx4 corners better than the K2... HEHE :D

http://www.rcnitro.com/rn/articles/buggy_showd.asp

SORRY for getting of the subject again Steve

already read this review sevrel of times...

Looking for one of the MBX-5 and when it there will be one of the K-III.

[the rock]

touch your sensitive spot oldshcool??? die hard fans are funny... ok... K2's and K3's are # one and will ALWAYS be on top... don't waste you money on a Mugen.

peace...

[the rock]

besides oldshcool.... i posted this mugen title site also on the MUGEN forum... with a smiley face just to give us mugen fans some credit on the X5... i didnt even say a word... and you came in and said "That Japanese title doensn't mean much IMHO since they didn't get to run the main" un-quote.....

Why even say that? let us mugen owners enjoy a title... if you have nothing good to say dont even say it at all...

Please dont answer back and let this forum stay on its true subject....

[tphss]

Originally posted by the rock
touch your sensitive spot oldshcool??? die hard fans are funny... ok... K2's and K3's are # one and will ALWAYS be on top... don't waste you money on a Mugen.

peace...

Only time will tell about # one.

And besides, who says what win's national with proffesional sponsered racers will preferably be the best for the local racer?

What counts for "us" non proffesional racers is not necessarily what win's for Yuichi Kanai, we might be better with a competetors buggy, and like that buggy more.

I don't know about the MBX-5 in comparence with the K-III but I assume it will be not far from the result of comparing the Kanai to the MBX4-XR, the Kanai won over VERY little things, and these things I don't think most people would notice.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kyosho alot too and had Kyosho buggies so far, but it's not always crystal clear as you stated it, that's what might get me buying a mugen buggy as my next buggy.

[the rock]

thats the spirit tphss.... open your mind :cool:

and your right... its ones personal experience with a car. Ive driven both k2's and X5's and I personally liked the X5. No review will convince me to like the K2 better.... I know people that say the same thing about the K2, they liked it better.

CR250 won bike of the year. I personally have a YZ250 and like the way it handles and performs more than a Honda.... My buddy sold his CR immediatly after he rode my Yamaha... he instantly had better lap times.... and he had the CR for 1 year... he rode my yammi for 15 laps... 2 heats... do you think a review is going to convince him the CR is better... not in his life.... and he was # 1 in the Yacatan pininsula....

So I suggest getting your hands on both of them and decide for yourself. How easy could it be for Kyosho or Mugen to give a reviewer a kick back to make them the "buggy of the year"... just imagine how many buggies they can sell with that title.

;)

[OldskoolGT]

Originally posted by the rock
Why even say that? let us mugen owners enjoy a title... if you have nothing good to say dont even say it at all...

Please dont answer back and let this forum stay on its true subject....

You are the guy who keeps bringing up this non Kyosho stuff up in the **Kyosho** thread. How many times do you see Kyosho guys posting in the Mugen thread every time a Kyosho won a big race?

[OldskoolGT]

Originally posted by the rock
. ok... K2's and K3's are # one and will ALWAYS be on top... don't waste you money on a Mugen.

peace...

That's good advice. But I already have a Mugen, a MBX5. That's why I post all the time in the X5 forum. :)

[the rock]

Originally posted by KanaiDude
. Untill I see mugen in more then 1 out of the top ten spots in the off road nats then maybe that will be something to talk about.

thats why i posted it... its not a US nat title, but its a Japan nat title... its OWN HOMETOWN... second place was who? my post was just leaned towards Kanaidude.... just info.... thats it.

Come on man.... lets clean up this forum... go ahead and say something else so you can have the last word....

Im sure Steve is losing his patients....

peace

[Hobbytown Racer]

OK, so let it go!!!!

Why did Kyosho make the rear shocks longer on the K3??? My old K1 has plenty of droop with the old 3mm shafts. Also, taking away weight from the chassis plus using ti screws will raise the center of gravity correct??? Seems to me they we're looking for a way to make a new buggy from an old buggy with small changes. I'll stick with the K1. I figure by the time I finish re-building the old trusty K1 with a few K2 parts I'll have a K1.5.....:D

[DR.GT]

hobbytownracer:

I think that the lighter chassis (40G) and Ti screws which are lighter than steel but heavier than aluminum should help some.
I have seen some heavy K cars and they handle very well on rough tracks so time will tell how well it works. I personally think if you can knock off some weight but not sacrifice durability it should help especially with acceleration if your car is completely in tuned shape for the track you race on.

I myself am putting my K2 on a diet this winter with carbon fiber parts and the light chassis when available. All told I should be able to knock off about 5 oz.

An interesting thing stated on the Sgrid by Chad Bradley (X5 factory driver) was that he thinks the optional Racers Edge parts (aluminum) for the X5 seems to make the car handle better because its heavier than with the carbon fiber parts. This is contrary to Mugen's idea of a selling feature to have a lighter car than the K car when it first came out. It will be interesting to see what the X5 drivers think over time to which is better (lighter or heavier).

:)

[Hobbytown Racer]

Doc, I read that on the grid. I do think lightening the car will help in making it faster simply because there's less weight. What I was mainly talking about is were the weight was taken off. If you remove it from the lowest un-sprung part of the car, it will raise the center of gravity.

[DR.GT]

Hobbytown Racer:

I agree with your accessment on the center of gravity. My bad, I forgot to acknowledge that before I changed gears on ya!

I got to drive my friends X5 this summer and it did feel more nimble than my K2, but the rear end traction was not as strong. I am really looking forward to my K2 on a diet. I'm sure it will be more aggressive being lighter. I like the LSD in the front as well. I also use only 2 disc brakes on the car. My friend works in a mill and I use some conveyer belt pads he made for me as disc pads and the metal discs. The pads do not wear and the car can stop on a dime.

As to the K3 I think it is just going to be an evolution of a pretty fine car already. If you don't have a K car then it would be a great kit to get if you want to drive a K car. For most racers, the K2 with some driving/tuning time and maybe some diff changes should be just as good. Driving, dependability, and some luck wins races most of the time IMHO.




:)

[tphss]

Originally posted by the rock
thats the spirit tphss.... open your mind :cool:


CR250 won bike of the year. I personally have a YZ250 and like the way it handles and performs more than a Honda....

So I suggest getting your hands on both of them and decide for yourself. How easy could it be for Kyosho or Mugen to give a reviewer a kick back to make them the "buggy of the year"... just imagine how many buggies they can sell with that title.

;)

That's exactly my point, same with the buggies as with the bikes, Honda won the 250 class, I like the KX250 better.

And sure, buggy of the year will sell alot, but most of the times the buggy that wins deserves it, not necessarily means it's the best for me or you. ;)

[OldskoolGT]

Is 40 grams off the bottom of the chassis really going to effect the center of gravity? Its only about 1% of the cars weight, so I don't think it amounts to much in terms of raising the center of gravity. I guess it can counteract the weight added from the aftermarket shock towers.

I think that more weight on a X5 might possibly help because those gray springs that come with the buggy are slightly too stiff.


I think the dirtbike thing is all about brand loyalty. You will never see me on a Kawasaki. :)

[tphss]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
Is 40 grams off the bottom of the chassis really going to effect the center of gravity? Its only about 1% of the cars weight, so I don't think it amounts to much in terms of raising the center of gravity. I guess it can counteract the weight added from the aftermarket shock towers.

I think that more weight on a X5 might possibly help because those gray springs that come with the buggy are slightly too stiff.


I think the dirtbike thing is all about brand loyalty. You will never see me on a Kawasaki. :)

True about both.
the buggy (although lighter is almost always better, just fine tune it different).

About the Brand Loyalty, I will always prefer Kawasaki, even if the competetor has a better product, i'll make it be as good as the competitors... ofcourse there is a limit, like the distance between the sucky (when stock) 2004 CR125 and all the other 125's.
But, I mean, I had a Honda too, so i'm realy open to whatever.

[KanaiDude]

Hey guys I put my K2 on a diet this weekend, all carbon fiber, it's a very light diet that includes the occasional bag of potatoe chips. You want me to take a few pictures and weigh it also? I mean my odonnell head might actually make up the difference in wieght so I really don't know if it did much, there's really not to much you can swap out besides the chassis, which mine is already a JT with milling, i'll post soon, here or the k2 forum, don't want to muck up the K3 forum...

[the rock]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
I think the dirtbike thing is all about brand loyalty. You will never see me on a Kawasaki. :)

not always... my buddy that changed from honda to yammi had nothing to do with brand loyalty... he was a die hard honda buyer for 20 years...

Good choices Kanaidude... in any racing application whether its formula one, drag cars or rc buggys, its all about power-weight-ratio. There out to put as much power in the motor to the lightest possible cars to have the perfect combination to work in harmony, with the power to the ground of course.

The amount of weight your losing can only do the buggy good.

I want to see a pic of a K on fiber.... lets see...


:cool:

[fourboltmain]

OK.... now that it appears the never-ending flame war may have died down a little, I'd just like some good honest advice. I am relatively new at posting here, but have lurked around the board for quite some time. I can't seem to get a handle on the whole TCD vs. stock diff. arguement. All I want to know is which do you feel is better, and why??

[OldskoolGT]

I definitely want to see some pics of your buggy KanaiDude. The CNC chassis is probably the only place where you can drop a lot of weight off the buggy. The other parts seem too small to make a big difference in weight by switching to a lighter material.


rock,

Well 20 years is a pretty long time to be such a die hard fan. I think motorcycles owners are probably some of the most brand loyal compared to other products. Now having said that, I must admit that despite being a loyal Honda owner, I really want a Yamaha WR250F. That bike has everything I want in a trail bike. :)


fourboltmain,

TCDs will give better turn-in than a regular diff filled with any diff oil. They also require less maintenance than regular diffs because TCD oil does not break down like silicone oil. Some people just don't like the way they feel though. Personally, I think the TCD is the best eight scale buggy diff because they make my buggy super responsive.

[KanaiDude]

Hey guys here's a pic, if anyone wants see some other angle let me. Car was a stock 7.5 is now a complete k2 minus the diffs which I run stock, engine is P5 with a 48t spur, metal clutch shoes, car has maybe 10 weekends on it. Looking forward to early spring here in NC to run 1/8 scale, will be running my FT rc10gt in the winter for a little while, still a decent turn out for that.

[the rock]

thats funy oldshool... i have a 2004 WR450F on order from Riva in Miami. Im turning away from racing motorcross, its taken a nice toll on my body. I was racing every weeknd for two years.... im going to settle on some trail riding now.... 450 has lost a lot of weight and im to used to the 250 grunt...

;)

sorry for an of the subject post guys.

[the rock]

very nice Kanaidude... starting to look more like an X5 now ;)

i really dig those fiber shock towers. Let us know how they keep up!!! Who makes those towers?

Like that dual filter action... why not!!!

[KanaiDude]

Hey Thanx! A seller named "holeshot" on ebay sells the carbon fiber, it's a good thickness I'm hoping it holds up for a while, got the whole set for 60 dollars, he does good work and it's a nice looking weave. I know I am looking very X5'ish now, I am sure I will get some questions at the track to what kind of car it is... You like my fuel cells? does add like an extra 30 seconds to my gas time, no more problems with bad pit guys not refueling all the way before 6 min qualifiers!

[DR.GT]

fourboltmain:

I agree with Old Skool on the TCD diff. I use one in the front and it gives my car better turn in and response and also longevity from rebuilds.

Kanai Dude:


How many mm thick are the towers on your car? The ones I have seen are 4.5mm.

:)

[the rock]

im really interested to know how the fiber towers will hold up kanaidude....

hobbytown.... the titanium parts are all ready.... the website will be updated any day... 1 week

has anyone bought the k3 or seen one?

[Mugen9112]

i think this k3 or k2 evo whatever you wanna call it is a joke. the k2 bugggies are already outrageously priced not to mention that the mbx5 offers a way better value. i think this year mugen is gonna take home the 1/8 offroad worlds, i got a feeling chad bradley is gonna take it home but the kyosho team is extremely strong, Mark Pavidis, Richard Saxton, Jeremy Kortz and the current world champ Greg Degani. i'v been looking at the k3 buggy in significant detail and cant see any changes in it, maybe im blind but i dont see anythin that makes it better or even DIFFERENT in any way from the K2 buggy. In my opinion im not tryin to down kyosho but they need some business ethics, i think they could learn from the mugen mbx5.

[atm92484_3]

The only thing Kyosho needs to learn is to dump the greedy asses at Great Planes as their U.S. distributors. Its because of GPMD that anything Kyosho costs an arm and a leg in the U.S.

I know I've said this about a thousand times before, and I'll say it a thousand more times. Go to www.kyosho.co.jp and go to the Japanese section of the site (there are no prices on the English section). Scroll over the menus on the left until a link that says "RC" followed by Japanese type pops up. Click on it and click on the picture of the 7.5. Go to the K3 page and the K2 page and look at the prices. If you convert these to U.S. dollars, the K2 retails for roughly $1150 and the K3 SHOULD retail for $720. Obviously many of us wish we were only paying retail for the K3s.

I just looked at the page and prices while I was typing this and I guess Kyosho caught on to the dramatic price difference and changed the K2 page from 125,000 yen to 85,000 yen which is roughly $780 U.S. Eventhough its been changed, this car *should* still sell for more than the K3; obviously something that is not happening since Tower has the pre-release price on the K3 at $820.

You may not like the Infernos, but are several thousand Kanai owners (including myself) that will tell you their Kanais are the best $1500-$2000 they've spent in RC.

[uDi_MP75]

Originally posted by the rock
kyosho is out dated. lets face it.

Mugens lovely X5 design is a complete RIP of the existing "outdated" MP7.5 platform. "lets face it" :rolleyes:

[OldskoolGT]

Do you think the price of the K3 will go down once Tower gets them in stock? Seems like they always massively overstate the price of an item before getting it in stock. It wouldn't surprise me to see GP gouge us on the K3 price though.

Mugen9112,

There's not a lot of stuff for Kyosho to learn from the X5 since its design "borrows" heavily from the 7.5. :)

When you take into consideration that the K2 comes with 2 TCD diffs and better quality parts, the K2 is not overpriced compared to the X5 IMHO.

[atm92484_3]

I highly doubt its going to drop. GP knows they're going to sell Kanai 3's no matter what.

[speedydave]

I'm just waiting for Kyosho's next buggy to be pillow ball suspension so I can flame all of you...:D ;)

[speedydave]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
Do you think the price of the K3 will go down once Tower gets them in stock?

No. While the K2 can be found for as little as $570, Tower still has it listed for $750. :rolleyes:

[the rock]

if the k2 or k3 is so perfect and nice... why do most of you complain about the price.... be proud if its so good.

if there was a buggy out there for 1,500 just for the kit and it was beyond them all... id buy them all day long.... money was no object when I bought my car... and in my personal opinion, the k2 is a waste of money with the x5 out.

but but... dont get me wrong.... they are awsome cars and if the x5 wasnt out... i wouldnt think twice and get the k2 or k3

maybe the x5 does have similar things from the 7.5.... but isnt evolution a way of life.... there always has to be a stepping stone, x5 just improved it. The best was once the best... and then someone comes along and improves it!!! And the wheel will always keep spinning that way. Mazda didnt invent turbos, but were the first with sequencial turbos....

Kanaidude

do they make that fiber tower for other cars?

[uDi_MP75]

It's all about shopping around, when you do - you find that the price differences between say an X5 and K2 are relatively small - and when you consider what OSGT said about the pricey LSD's and better quality parts on the K2, you really start wondering what all these mugen boys are whinging about.

Speedydave - seems like Kyosho aren't the kind to 'follow the crowd' - I was expecting them to switch to pbs long ago, but they stick with the chubbys - perhaps for the less unsprung weight?

I'm seeing no laydown servos, no little replaceable hingepin brace/shocktower plastic inserts, no pbs, no split center diff mount, hmm no X5 ideas on the K3 at all? come to think of it, kyosho haven't copied much at all, have they :p

no flaming for you, speedydave :D

[uDi_MP75]

I don't think i've seen many actual Kanai owners complaining about the prices, only mugen owners - in attempt to... well, I don't even know what.
Fact remains, you get what you pay for. I don't see the K2 as a waste of money - and i'm not completely brand loyal either - if mugen made a machine that matched and/or bettered the K buggies in every possible way, i'd be an instant convert. Of course, that is yet to happen :)

Of course everything gets improved, but I like how Kyosho continues to improve their own design - while certain other companies set out to, what, improve kyoshos design? :D

[the rock]

whats the price to convert to a k3?

how are they in weight compared to the k2?

[speedydave]

I said I was waiting, not that they had...:rolleyes: Besides, the K3 is an update of the K2, not a whole new buggy.

When I was getting into 1/8, the MBX5 wasn't out yet. The top buggies were the MBX4 XR Works and the Kanai 1. I honestly would have bought the Kyosho then, if it weren't for the price. The K2 is a nice buggy, but Kyosho/Great Planes needs to get over themselves and lower the damn price. I know tons of people that replace the TCD/Torsen/whatever the hell kind of diff they are because they only work at some tracks. Take those diffs out, the buggy will be cheaper, less people will complain, and more people will buy the buggy. If it weren't for that fact, I'd probably be flaming Mugen guys for complaing the K2 was too expensive, saying the Mugen is a copy of the Kyosho, too.

[KMack215]

I'm here in Tokyo for a week and just made my rounds of my favorite RC shops. It's funny how the Kanai 3 is about $475 over here. While this is cheap in the US it's still the highest price buggy over here also. I couldn't resist I'm going to by 2 and i'll have the other posted on Ebay at the beginning of next week. Tower is raping customers on the Kyosho price mark up! Everything here is at least 50% cheaper. BUT i just saw a B4 buggy Kit for $350....so go figger!

[the rock]

WOW :eek:

[wjj]

hey, do you guys think the weakness of the US dollar has any effect on the prices on foreign goods? It seems that if the dollar is weak then americans have to use more of their money, I don't know much about economics, but the dollar is at an all time low compared to other currencies.

[OldskoolGT]

Oh man its downright painful hearing about how cheap stuff is in Japan.

Besides the weak dollar, you have to remember all the other stuff that hikes up the price of imported stuff. Besides GP's massive markup, there are also import duties and shipping which do add considerable cost to imported items. And the retailer's markup is going to be even more over here because the items cost is more.


KMack215,

Just curious, how much does the Mugen cost in Japan?

[atm92484_3]

I highly doubt that the dollar has much of anything to do with it. If that were the case, then other imported brands like HPI would cost more also. Look at O.S. engines for example; a year ago at this time, almost all of the small-block engines were a good $40-$60 more than they are now. I'm willing to bet my Kanai that GPMD lowered prices since they were losing sales to the Italian based engines for how much they cost. While I'm talking about Italian engines, look at the price of Novarossis before and after Trinity took over the U.S. distribution. That is a prime example of how much control a distributor can have over prices.

Mack or anyone else in Japan, you guys wouldn't happen to have any links to Japan based online hobby shops that ship internationally or even a LHS with someone who speaks English and will ship to the U.S.?

[Mugen9112]

oldschoolgt i wanna know wt mugen copied off of kyosho, mugen has been making original design cars since the company debuted. the 7.5 and x5 no where look alike or share the same performance features. im definetly not tryin to down kyosho but their 7.5 is only sucessful because it has some of the best racers in the world behind it and yuuichi kanai worked his a** off to produce that car, w/o yuuichi kanai kyosho would never have had so much sucesss with that car. also i dont see how any one can down mugen, if you look at the results from the worlds in uruguay, you sill see that mugen driver kenji osaka placed second at the worlds with only the mugen mbx4 xr works. so before anyone starts downin mugen maybe consider the fact that mugen is a very respectable company with a budget far smaller then kyosho/great planes and yet they still make a very very competitive car in every class they race in!

[OldskoolGT]

Mugen9112,

I have both cars, and when they are sitting next to each other, it is very obvious that Mugen based their car on the 7.5 design instead of making a next generation MBX4. IMHO, the X5 appears to share more design elements with the 7.5 than the MBX4.

The use of torque rods, the suspension mounting, and the lowered diffs are some of the things that Mugen copied from Kyosho. The suspension geometry that the X5 has is very similar to the 7.5. In fact the rear lower suspension arms are basically interchangeable between the 2 cars.

[KanaiDude]

Hey Rock...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3161600960&category=34063

clickie on view sellers other items, seems they only make parts for a few others, you could probably email him though and ask, its nice work for the price, has an almost bubble like pattern to it but I like, it's pretty slick. As far as its hold up I think it's top notch, you run any carbon fiber upside down on the street from wrecking and your gonna have problems, but as far as one ever breaking he says it hasn't happened and he would replace for free.

WOW so much debate on the K3, I will probably run my k2 all next year, It's got a lot of life left, plus I have tons of spare parts, then maybe late next year i'll take another look at the X5 and maybe something else new will be out by then who knows...

[Mugen9112]

oldschollgt i really dont see what you are talking bout mugen doesnt even use torque rods it uses tie rods, yea the suspension arms in the rear might be interchangable but do you honestly think that mugne especially intened to make mugen arms that are like kyoshos, and lastly the mounting position is copied at all all 1/8 buggies use the same mounting techniques!

[the rock]

thanks Kanaidude... I emailed him last night and havent heard back. I actually already got a hold of a carbon manufacturer...

http://www.wccomposites.com/

hes sending me 2 sheets of 12x12 .125''.... opprox 3mm wide. Carbon is many times stronger than aluminum so you should have no problems. Ever seen a formula one car explode... the carbon cockpit is usually the only section stays in tact.

Im going to cut them myself.... can wait. Im also thinking of making the chassi... What do you think?

[the rock]

well it just accured to me that the entire aluminum chassi works as a giant heat sink for the motor and trannys.... carbon might make everything else much hotter.... I dont think carbon dispurses the heat as aluminum..... other than that issue carbon should work better than aluminum... stronger and rigiter....

what do you guys know of the heat issue???

[the rock]

maybe if I just get an aftermarket head and can control the temp on the motor... the trannys wont have a problem.

I think im going for it!!!

[OldskoolGT]

Mugen9112,

Torque rod is refering to how the rod is mounted, not what its made of. Torque rods mount to the chassis to fight the torsional twisting of the chassis. The MBX4 didn't use them. All buggies do not use the same suspension mounting system, the GS Storm and MBX4 used a completely different system than what you see on the MBX5 and 7.5. And regarding the rear suspension arm, what are the chances that Mugen came up with their own design and it just so happend that the rear arm dimensions are the same (from inner hingepin to outer hingepin location). It's not like Mugen is known for not copying others designs (cough, cough MST-1 truck). Mugen is not a bad company (I have 2 of their vehicles in fact), but they are known for copying others designs.


Rock,

How would you make a carbon fiber chassis with the front kick-up?

[the rock]

heat...

but im still researching how it will react to the high temps of the motor...

[KanaiDude]

That would be excellent, I don't know but I don't recall the chassis ever being all that hot or even all that warm after running. I've seen a chasis for the xxx nt but thats a much smaller motor. Even with an odonnell head on my p5 i'm still running temps in the 230-250 range, but with proper venting though it should be fine? Think you would have any problems with flaking around the higher stress areas?

[OldskoolGT]

The Kyosho chassis seems to stay cooler than the Mugen's possibly because Kyosho's chassis is hard anodized. And hard anodization is a thermal insulator. I've noticed that my Mugen's chassis will be fairly hot if the car has been running on the track for a while.

[the rock]

yeah my chassi seems to get pretty hot...

kanaidude,

the place the carbon chassi worrys me the most is the front nose. It takes dirrect hits their. Im pretty sure the carbon would have a problem their... if I do it im going to have to make a small custom skip plate that over laps the bumper and chassi... so the hits just skim over

[KanaiDude]

Hey Rock, good luck, I can see where the kick up is going to cause some problems and is the only real drawback to creating fiber chasis's. Definitely keep us posted, and hopefully a success story with pics! Good luck...

[the rock]

kanaidude

well I just spoke to the guys at http://dragonplate.com/

he seems to know a bit about rc's. Hes VERY confident that a 5/32 or 3.9mm carbon plate will take quite a beating... he doesnt think it will brake, and the great thing about carbon is the memory it has... wont stay bent.

BBUUUUTTTT

in order to bend the nose piece, is not as easy as just heating it up. They would have to buld a custom mold, then make the 12 or 13 degree bend on the nose... To make a knock off of the original chassi.... were talking about MINIMUM $500 to make.... make about 20-30 of them then costs come down to under $100... geepers creepers.. im talking about making a computer CAT and everything and making it perfect.

Maybe the mugen buddies will go for them..haha

Oh and he says that after 150degrees the carbon will start to loose its properties.... and im pretty sure the chassi can reach that easily. Maybe with a special coat on top or something it would help......

So... im going to do some serious thinking before making a carbon chassi..... but I havnt discarted it... I will defently keep you posted.

For now hes sending me a sheet of 12x12 3.9mm for my shock towers.

:cool:

[KanaiDude]

Nice, well at least you can say you tried, wonder how profitable that could be on ebay, if it was a sure thing I would be tempted to go in on with you, but seems to be to many variables. I think the 150 degree marker is the biggest problem, would be sad to see that pretty carbon flaking all over the place! Bet you can make alot of towers with that sheet, let me know how it goes, maybe I will do the same next season, I've got a ntc3 (screaming for carbon fiber chassis) and a FTGT (at least the towers, has a kickup to in the front though).

[the rock]

yeah the heat is the biggest stump... maybe I can design some custom fans that sit unber the motor mounts... :eek: ;)

[walfridsson]

Sorry , this question has nothing to do with the car on the picture , i just wonder were to download racing movies or just home made movies? , and the 2nd question is , do you ppl know what truck i shuld buy? i really wanna have a good one , fast and not to clumsy ;) "bad spelling"

[the rock]

Originally posted by walfridsson
Sorry , this question has nothing to do with the car on the picture , i just wonder were to download racing movies or just home made movies? , and the 2nd question is , do you ppl know what truck i shuld buy? i really wanna have a good one , fast and not to clumsy ;) "bad spelling"

1/10 stadium truck? AE Factory GT

[walfridsson]

Hmm , i just heard that the T-maxx is awsome ?

the_rock: if know any links or places were i could Download movies from races , championchips i would be werry greatfull , been looking everwere for some movies , and i just find som small videos at rcnitro etc

[ugman]

You can get a ton of movies from http://www.trilordy.com

[walfridsson]

ugmna: thanks alot =) really nice , im just about buying myself a t-maxx i think , so im just really into this now , really fun

[walfridsson]

i have a problem , what shuld i buy? a kyosho buggy like the green one or a t-maxx? , i wanna have a car that goes fast and can handle off-road good (best) , i wanna have good stuff now guys , so tell me anything ;) , as far it is good stuff =) " im new to this ;D "

[uDi_MP75]

A kyosho buggy will be a lot better for you in the long run, maxx's need a minimum of 2000-3000 poured into them to be any good imo. You can easily spend under or well under 2000 on a good Kyosho buggy (depending which you get, and the gear you get for it), and have something a lot better than a stock maxx. I'm talking day and night difference here, and for less money in the long run. Stronger, faster, better handling, better power handling, a lot more air time possible, the list goes on.

If rock crawling is your thing, a maxx will do the job, but to match a buggy in the afformentioned aspects (or even come close) you will need to pour lots of money into it.

[the rock]

its not even something to think about. get the buggy over a stock tmaxx.

the only way youll come close to a buggy with a tmaxx is to step up to the plate and buy the mutant maxx... its basically a wider buggy with tmaxx wheels.

I have one and I do almost the same lap times as I do with my mbx5... i won last weeknds race in an open class.... 5 other buggys and my mutant. As you see this truck, i have 2,500 into it. this chassi and deck are titanium. Its as reliable as my buggy... or more

oval track this mutant will run circles around any buggy... its just so much wider and stabler.

If I had to pick one... i would take the buggy... but im a track guy.... if i didnt have any of the two and new what I know now.... i would still buy the buggy first

if your comparing the k2 to an out of the box tmaxx... its like comparing a real stadium truck to the real big foot...

it all just depends on what you want it for.

you can get the top of the line Kyosho with the best servos and motor for around 1,500...

[walfridsson]

*sigh* this is really hard to know what to buy , i wanna have good speed and nice handling , the buggy seems to have that.
I saw t-maxx had 3 or 4 diffrent levels on the " dont know what you call it in english" its a oil bumper? nevermind , does the buggy have this future to? its the hight between car and road you can switch on the t-maxx , grrr , leave it , i hope you understand ;) , So tell me good buggys :) , good buggy for less money and good buggy for much money , dont think about money now only on quality and futures on the car :) , hope im not a pain in da ass :D

[the rock]

just buy the buggy.... you seem to be refering to the "normal" tmaxx... the only thing can do better is rock climb.

[walfridsson]

Ok , so this new green kyosho buggy is the next big buggy ?
or is there any other hot buggys on the list?

[the rock]

the 3 best buggys on the market right now are:

*Kyosho k2 (green one your talking about)
*Kyosho k3 (evolution of the k2, minimal modifications, hard to get right now)
*Mugen MBX-5

not necesarely in that order. But if you buy either one of these buggys you will be the top dogg.

Debates are never ending over the k2/3 or Mugen MBX5..... Best way to ever figure out which one is better for you is to drive them both. Both cars have pros and cons.... Do some research... and good luck!!! But BUY A BUGGY!!!

[walfridsson]

the_rock: cool thnx m8 :) , i think i will buy a buggy and i got some nice information on this page , but now i need a store to buy one , im from sweden and there isnt much rc stores were i live , but i look those cars up if i can find any info about em and hopefully som nice rc videos , ive just seen jump movies and i really wanna see some rc car races :) , but big thnx for da help :D

[walfridsson]

ive been reading some threads on this forum , and ive seen some ppl say mugen and some say kyosho , Does kyosho parts fit mugen ? and mugen parts fit kyosho?

[the rock]

no... not that I know of... besides suspension and tires....

i was in your shoes about 5 months ago.... but ill reserve my thoughts as they are very contriversal.... and a thread can get side tracked to easily of its "intended" topic. You can pick either car with your eyes closed and be "more" than satisfied.... ESPECIALLY if you have never owned a buggy.

Jump on the Mugen thread... im on their to.... read them both and ask questions!!!

m8 ;)

lakkar

[walfridsson]

i thought the t-maxx had a 3 speed shifting?
guess i was wrong , only 2

http://www.traxxas.com/products/nitro/tmaxx/trx_tmaxx_fea.htm

thats the truck i was talking about beefore ;) , i just wanna have it cleared for you ppl. and im still in , shuld i buy a buggy or a truck , this depends on what/were i shuld drive it offcurse

[the rock]

thats the bone stock tmaxx... about $400.... I dropped another $2,000 in my tmaxx to make it competative to a buggy.

let me ask you something. Where will you be driving this RC?

[walfridsson]

It isnt so much tracks to drive on here , so on the streets , and offrad in forrest maybe ? on big sand hills etc

2.000 dollar????? Really?!?!?! i didnt know you could spend that much on a car? :P

i hope those cars cost arround 400 - 600 $

[walfridsson]

forgot to ask you rock , what do you think about that stock t-maxx? good eh?

[the rock]

well it seems to me you really want the tmaxx... and yes... you will spend 1/4 of the price. sounds like you will be doing offroading on all types of terrain. Forest, will have rock, trunks, etc.. and will need some ground clearance. Sand... if your talking about sand sand... like a dune, its better to have the traction of the wider tires, your just going to digg the buggy... and sand is not good on moving parts...

your just comparing apples and oranges here..... and yes the tmaxx is a nice truck.. concidering its your first rc ever... you will be very happy with the tmaxx... if price is an issue... buy the tmaxx and get like an Ofna MBX Pro buggy.... you will spend about $800 on both cars and have the best of both worlds... unless your doing some seriuos racing the k3 or x5 is overkill. your not going to tell the difference between the ofna or k3 in the street... or going up sand hills

[1 Bad STi]

If you buy a Tmaxx prepare to spend tons of money on parts depending how hard you play. You can NOT, I repeat CAN NOT even compare a Kanai and a truck of that level to eachother. The difference is between night and day. If your a beginner, these buggies are not for you. Go buy a Tmaxx..........

[walfridsson]

im a begginer at this level , ive never ever been driven a nitro car but i know i can handle one ;)

But this is how i think.
A buggy you maybe 90% drive on race tracks? and were i live there is hard to get a race track , but im not thoase ppl who build up BIG jumps just to crash the car , i just wanna drive it fast on big sand hills etc etc and as i can see the buggy just digg it self down and a t-maxx truck wont , but as you ppl say this t-maxx will probably cost lots of money , tell me if i buy a mugen or a kyosho buggy , will it come with engine? and is the spear parts to t-maxx cost lots more than to a buggy?

i just have the money now to order one and its 50/50 (buggy/t-maxx truck) , if there were any big races here near me and nice tracks this solution would be an easy choice.

Wy wasnt i born in the US? :P

[walfridsson]

ive been looking on a Kyosho kanai , the green one with other suspension and a rossi engine , costed me 1400$ , so maybe , just maybe i can buy such a ride ;)

[uDi_MP75]

If you've got the money to get it, get the buggy. In the long run you'll likely spend less money hopping up the car, and more time driving it - coming from a strict Kyosho buggy background, a stock T-maxx is NOT a good truck - that came out a little harsh - but reality is.

If you must buy cheaper than Kyosho, there are plenty of other good alternatives out there. HB lightning pro would be a great car for yourself, and you should be able to kit one out with a nice engine and radio gear for a lot less money than the Kyosho. Take a look at it, you can get it for us$290 now - on top of that you'll need an engine, pipe, and radio gear of your choice.

I don't think you should pursue this question on this thread - opinions have been given, its time to move on. If you decide on a K3, you can keep the discussion here - otherwise your question is to be discussed elsewhere, such as the general nitro forum.

cheers
-uDi

[cbr74]

Take a look at it, you can get it for us$290 now - on top of that you'll need an engine, pipe, and radio gear of your choice.

Actually... it comes with an engine and pipe, all you need is radio gear.

[uDi_MP75]

lightning fan cbr74 saves the day :D

[walfridsson]

ok thnx , but its lots of monet on that buggy and i just wanna tell it to ppl that know any about those buggys :)

[Nitro41]

What makes these buggies so expensive? They are the best when it comes to racing, but $500 stock? Even used, they go for $300+ on ebay. Just curious.:confused:

[KanaiDude]

Nitro41- a stock K2 buggy with engine pipe servos etc. is going to cost 1000+, is this alot of money? Yes, is it the baddest remote control car on 4 wheels? Yes... Have you been to a 1/8 scale race where there are alot of buggies there? These buggies are going 20+ miles an hour around a super technical dirt track and holding 3 foot jumps like there spiderman, they are truly marvels of engineering...

[walfridsson]

HB Lightning pro or Kyosho Kanai Edition III competition buggy?

pls some examples wy i shuld choose one of em

[walfridsson]

kyosho kanai (green one) or the Kyosho inferno 7.5 , i read some about those cars and they are allmost the same?
So maybe a inferno 7.5 is a better choice than a kanai?

[walfridsson]

is the kanai so much better?

[uDi_MP75]

A normal Kanai doesn't have a heap over a regular 7.5.

If you wanted, you could find a cheap deal on a regular 7.5, and just but a few pieces - and it would likely be as good as any of the higher end models.

You'll want a new pair of shocktowers, something strong and cheap off ebay - and some new hingepin braces/plates/holders (whatever you call them). You'll need two of those, one for the front and back - and you want them in 7075, same with the towers.

Upgrade those two things, and the regular 7.5 should be just as bulletproof as the Kanais.

If you are driving hard enough to snap the 3mm shockshafts, then you might need to upgrade to the K2 3.5mm shocks later, but they usually don't break unless you crash or get crashed really hard.

I run a regular mp7.5, and i'm honestly really happy with it - so i'm sure you would be too. And it's head and shoulders above a stock t-maxx... easy. :D

[nitroOB4you]

Heya's...Ive done a little research on pricing, and Ive found that now, the prices are relatively close between the K2 and X5.After reading this thread, I'm more confused as to which of the two I would prefer.I guess the one main question I have that remains to be answered revolves around each kits instructions.I know K is reputed to be one the best in the industry, so maybe this isnt warranted, but I would appreciate any input from those that have seen both.I am pretty much accustomed to AE, although I have run Ofna's OB4 and Hyper 7.I like having text and tips as well as pictures.

[walfridsson]

how much do you ppl think it will cost to upgrade it to a kanai from a inferno 7.5?

i got a a good offer on a kanai k2 for 900$ with rocci engine , new suspensions , tires , controller and a thing you put you car on to get it to start :rolleyes: " bad english"

i just wanna know if its a good price or if this dude is tricking me , cous im new to this :p

The car has been driven for 20min :D

[the rock]

well I dont know much about the k2 versus the 7.5 so I dont know how much money it takes to convert.

but I can tell you this. 20 minutes of use is only about 2 gas tanks. but if he has already changed his suspension.... the car has MUCH more than 20 minutes on it... I would say closer to a couple of gallons. I have like 2.5 gallon on my X5... and if I tore it apart, replaced my front bumper, lower arms, suspension and tires... I can make it look like it had only 20 minutes of use ;)

[uDi_MP75]

walfridsson -
can you get a pic of the car and post it here? that would make it a lot easier to judge it.

I'm doubting he has only driven it for 20mins, I can't think of many people that can go to the trouble of buying and building a top-line buggy and only throwing 20mins on it.

Any more details on the engine, model no. etc? Is it rossi or novarossi - different engines.

The good news is, a K2 shouldn't start falling apart even after heaps of use - most of the parts are really good quality and will last for a long long time.

US 900 sounds reasonable if it has decent radio gear and servo's with it.

Make sure you ask if the engine is still in good condition - a K2 usually wont hurt much if its run hard and fast - but engines can lose a lot of life in a matter of minutes if its run incorrect.

Turning the engine over by hand is a good indication of how much its been used - the tighter or harder it is to turn the flywheel, the better it is.

good luck
uDi

[uaerc]

Hi

Does anyone know why this particular kit is not mentioned on the Kyosho website ?

Regards
Aziz

[atm92484_3]

Great Planes is just slow at posting stuff on their sites. It only took them 3 months to put the VZ-B on the O.S. site; give it time. Maybe with the K3s hitting hobby shops this week, we'll see something on the Kyosho site.

[uaerc]

Originally posted by atm92484_3
Great Planes is just slow at posting stuff on their sites. It only took them 3 months to put the VZ-B on the O.S. site; give it time. Maybe with the K3s hitting hobby shops this week, we'll see something on the Kyosho site.

Hi

After a lot of serching i found the kit displayed at the Kyosho.co.jp site in the new kits section. check it out. Its a shame that GP havent put it on the site when they suppose to be the biggest dealers of Kyosho. I wonder why kyosho doesnt bother to make sure that the products are updated regularly on their dealers sites. Especially in our side Middle East, both the dealers of the area are not really updating the sites. Its a shame really.......expensive parts and all that really bad service aswell. Hope somebody at Kyosho does something about this.

Regards
Aziz

[uDi_MP75]

It's just normal - our wholesalers don't get the new kits out for 6-months or more after release, and LHS's here don't even bother selling Kanai's because no one can ever afford to buy them.

You have to sacrifice on the parts support, price and 'poor service' as such, if you want to run a Kyosho kit, especially overseas. And honestly, after having mine around for a year or two, i'd never buy any other buggy, even if my lhs had a wall of parts for it, for half kyosho prices.

[KMack215]

Too bad it's freezing here in Philly. I just finished the K3 i picked up in Japan last month. The build was not as bad as i thought it was going to be. Word to the wise...PAY attention to Ti screws vs. the steel screws. I had to teardown twice because i failed to notice. (big dummy!). I got the kit for about $525 and put in my RZ-V01B(P) from my older buggy. I'm heading to Cali in feb. so i'll try to take it along for the ride. Hopefully i'll get some drive time soon!

[the rock]

.

[Butcher]

I was going to get the new K3, but someone told me that I was better off getting the K2, because he said the the K3 is a japanesse car and they're tracks are smoother and the jumps aren't as big as over here in the U.S. Basically he told me, it's not made for jumping. Can anyone help me, Is this true, I have three days to decide, thanks!

[OldskoolGT]

Butcher,

The guys I know with K3s tell me that they work better in the bumps than the K2 did. The K3 also has more rear suspension travel than the K2, so I don't think the K3 was made for smooth tracks at all.

[Butcher]

Thanks for your input, it's not like I'm gonna take the K3 to a skateboard park or anything like that .

[uDi_MP75]

Does the K3 have a new lower arm design?
anyone got pics? i'm curious.

I want the front upper and lower ally B blocks off the K3, i'm still annoyed and confused as to why they included the A's with the K2.... especially considering the lower ally part is expensive.

[atm92484_3]

I'm 99% sure the K3 uses the same lower arm design but instead of the part being if122 its if122b to denote the harder plastic. I think all of the older if122 parts have been replaced by the newer b parts anyways.

[Motorman007]

Is the K3 worth the money? is the thing for me.

any input please?

thank you

[OldskoolGT]

It depends on if you value having a quality buggy.

[Motorman007]

I do want a quality buggy. I have been running Kyosho from the start of the MP-6-Kanai 2.

The reason I was asking was to see what the people was thinking about the K3. Is it worth the money or should you buy a K2 or wait till after the worlds to see if they come out with a new buggy.

I once tried the Crono for 4 weeks and I sold it and went back to my Kyosho ride.
I was thinking of try a mugen, Hyper PRC and even a TTR when it comes out after the Toy Show this year.

But what I keep coming back to is that the Kyosho makes a super buggy. And it seems to keep winning. But I would like to try something else to see for myself if Buggy “A” or Buggy “B” is better.
Yes the kyosho parts are higher but you get what u pay for I think. The kyosho is on the top of the food chain I think. If you don’t think so why do so many people put kyosho parts on there Ofna or why do other companies use the kyosho design for some of their parts?

My thing is I don’t want to waste money on something that is not as good as the kyosho. I here that the X5 is super and turns great and is super fast and light. But the mugen has so many things that can go wrong with it. From what I have heard the H7 turns better than the kyosho. And the parts for the Ofna are cheaper but ofna change their design almost 2-3 times a year. This makes it hard to keep up with what is best for the buggy and you the driver. I believe they should do more R&D before releasing a buggy and not have 7 different buggies out at a time. This way the buyer can pick just one and if they have running changes just sale that. But I know they will make money that way. Lol but it is hard to pick one of the OFNA brands if you have 7 to pick from. I know there are not 7 H7 but do you get what I’m saying.

But my problem is do I buy a K2 or K3 for this season or wait for the K4 to come out after the worlds? Is what I’m asking with my? At hand.

Thank you for your time
Motor

[OldskoolGT]

Originally posted by Motorman007

But I would like to try something else to see for myself if Buggy “A” or Buggy “B” is better.


I guess there is only one way to find that out, and it involves going through quite a few buggies. :) If you like the way Kyoshos drive, I'd suggest a K3.



I too want to see what the best buggy for me is, and so far the Kyosho is the clear choice. I previously had a Hyper 7 and now have a K2 and a X5 (K3 coming in March). The Hyper 7 is an OK car, but the quality and durabiliy is lacking compared to Kyosho. It also didn't steer as good as my K2. I don't even think about racing my Mugen, unless my Kyosho won't run. The way is drives doesn't seem to suit my driving style at all (spoiled by Kyosho). I know other people that also tried the Mugen and just couldn't drive them as well as a Kyosho. OTOH, its possible that the Mugen could suit you perfectly. You will never know unless you try one.

[Motorman007]

Oldskool
u are right. i guess i can leave the nest one more time. lol and try a Mugen buggy. what don't you like about your mugen if i can ask?

it is not the way it drive but like you said the parts are top of the food chain where as quality and durabiliy is a issue.

and that the kyosho is set-up for dumbs.. you know what i mean. u don't have to worry about PB and if the front is too short or to long on one side etc.

kyosho did all the work for you i think.

but it seem that i my try something in april to see if Buggy "A" is all that.

thanx for the input OLDSKOOL

[OldskoolGT]

My Mugen buggy doesn't steer like my K2. It just doesn't have the immediate turn-in of my Kyosho. It also doesn't seem to hold as tight of a line when on the throttle. I think these differences are due to the TCD diff and the universal axles of the Kyosho compared to the standard diff and CVA axles of the Mugen.

[uDi_MP75]

Seen the Mugen cvd's next to the K uni's, and the Mugen's look half as thick hehe.

But aren't cvd's supposed to be smoother than uni's? or is it just the fact that they are rebuildable? (the latter is more of a pain than an advantage imo)

K2 guys - does anyone use a small bit of fuel tubing under the bladders to make them pop back out? Someone else suggested it to me back when the K2's had just come out, and it seems to work... otherwise the bladders compress and don't seem to pop back out. Anyone else done this or am i a loner?

[OldskoolGT]

CVA or CVD style axles are not as smooth as Kyosho universal axles which bind up the least under power. I've noticed that the universals seem to last considerably longner than CVAs or CVDs too.

uDi_MP75,

Are you using the new style K2 shock bladder? The original style would get ripped pretty easily, causing them not to pop out.

[NoleC5]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
My Mugen buggy doesn't steer like my K2. It just doesn't have the immediate turn-in of my Kyosho. It also doesn't seem to hold as tight of a line when on the throttle. I think these differences are due to the TCD diff and the universal axles of the Kyosho compared to the standard diff and CVA axles of the Mugen.

Oldskool, I recently switched from a Mugen to a K2 basically b/c I drove a buddies K2 after a race one day and couldn't believe how much better the steering was. And it had 3 standard diffs. I bought a K2 that same week.

As far as the Mugen, it seemed very hard to get dialed in, and I never really got it to hook up as well as the K2. I couldn't stand the leaking diffs and brittle plastic. I loved the lay down servo and split center diffs however.

[OldskoolGT]

That seems to be one of the great ironies of the Mugen. The front end is practically infinitely adjustable, but just doesn't seem to work as well as the Kyosho.

[NoleC5]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
That seems to be one of the great ironies of the Mugen. The front end is practically infinitely adjustable, but just doesn't seem to work as well as the Kyosho.

With so many adjustments, it just seemed like a daunting (sp) task to try and get it setup. I've heard of a number of guys locally who run the same setup on a K2 at every track that they go to and it basically works everywhere!

[dgrobe2112]

I got a 7.5, and put a racers edge kit on it.. i think it is better than a K2, i am thinkin about putting the front K3 arms on my buggy.. havent found out what the main differences are.. but i heard that he K3, has more steering than the k2.. still lookin into it..

[tjs]

K3 front arms; There is a strengthening "brindge" at the end of the A-arm so that tha c-hub is closed in. Also the little groove at rear of the arms is a bit more milled out so that the knuckle arm can't touch the a-arm under any circumstances. The upper a-arm is also revised as it has been milled out at rear lower portion of the arm to provide more clearance for the steering plate to operate.

I haven't driven mine yet as it's snow outside but if this thing steers better it's due to the new ackerman or steering plate and the revised steering knuckles.

Steering plate; the most rearward hole (from the front of the car) has been moved 3mm back and about 1-1.5mm to the center of the chassis. On the new plate the middle hole lines up exactly with the last hole on the previous plate.

Knuckles; The is a rindge underneath the knuckle which reinforces lower kingpin hole (these used to crack there all the time). Main difference is that the knuckles have been cnc'd around the edge which comes in contact with the c-hub resulting in sligthly more steering throw.

Last season I had 2 basic setups for my buggy. One for tight technical tracks and another one for supercross style tracks. I got through the season ok with only minor chnages to the setups. The most important thing anyways is the tires...wrong tires and you can start packing.

[masshybrid]

Does the k2/k3 suffer from leaking diffs like the MBX5? Other than the steering knuckles, are there any other necessary upgrades to the k2/k3? I currently own an MBX5, which is a nice buggy, however I would expect better engineering and better materials into something that costs this much. Is it time to jump on the Kyosho bandwagon? Much needed input from people whom have driven both buggies.

[the rock]

I think you answered your own question asking something like this on a Kysho thread. It doesnt sound like your to happy with your X5. I suggest take the dive into K2/K3. I know people who have gone both ways... dont like the X5 and went with K2, or dont like the K2 and are happier with their new X5. Both cars have their pros and cons.

Out of the box there are a few small things to concider buying for the X5. You know that... as far as the leaky diffs.... yes I agree Mugen does need to fix that. BUT ... if your a racer... you should be changing your oils often enouph for it not to be a problem... if mantainance is kinda on the "lazy" side... it is a hassle.

But you will never know what is better for you unless you have owned them both!!!

Good luck!!!

;)

[OldskoolGT]

Another thing that might make the K3 steer better is the different roll center of the front end. The upper arms are mounted 2 mm lower than the K2.


masshybrid,

K cars need aftermarket CNC chassis braces, and the diffs don't leak.

Kyoshos and Mugens drive quite a bit differently, so if you are satisfied with how your Mugen drives, I think it would be sensible to stick with it rather than spend hundreds of dollars on a buggy you might not like. You do get better quality materials and craftsmanship with the Kyosho though. The engineering is better too (IMHO).

[masshybrid]

I don't know if I'm happy with the Mugen because I haven't driven any other 1/8 buggies. If the diffs don't leak and the quality of materials is better, well I may have found my new toy. :D One racer did mention that he didn't break anything all season ( a few crashes) and that caught my attention. I can get the k3 for $660, is that a decent price? Thanks again.

[screamer]

Hey Guys, can anyone tell me whether Kanai 3's front and / or rear bulk heads are different then Kanai 2's?

[the rock]

[i] One racer did mention that he didn't break anything all season ( a few crashes) and that caught my attention. [/B]

:rolleyes:

[NoleC5]

Massh....

I recently switched from an MBX5 to a K2. I truly wish I could run the Mugn b/c I like the way it looks compared to the K car, the parts are more available in my area and the Mugen seems cheaper to run. But I could not stand the leaking diffs and the large number of broken plastic pieces and front shock shafts that happened to me.

With that said, I'm not planning on switching back any time soon. I'm going to give myself through the first round of the pro series (next week in Orlando) to make a final decision on what I'm going to do for the coming season. I've run two races with the K car so far and have done very well with it in both. My rear diff has leaked but other than that, I've had no problems. It is a much more stable car and for me, seems to turn much easier and more than my Mugen ever did. Setup seems to be easier with the K car too.

Good Luck!

[uDi_MP75]

wheres the diff leaking from the outdrive o-rings or the main gasket?

I can't imagine how.... usually with my diffs the oil level is the same when I fill them and when rebuild time comes.. don't think i've ever had one leak.

[OldskoolGT]

NoleC5,

Switch to hex head screws on the diffs if you haven't already done so. Its hard to tighten those philips head screws enough to seal the diff properly.

[NoleC5]

Originally posted by OldskoolGT
NoleC5,

Switch to hex head screws on the diffs if you haven't already done so. Its hard to tighten those philips head screws enough to seal the diff properly.

Oldskool, I've switched most of the buggie to the hex screws but not the diffs. Do you know if the hex diff scres are included in those RC screw kits that are popular now?

[NoleC5]

Udi, I think they are leaking from the gaskets, not the O rings.

[atm92484_3]

Originally posted by NoleC5
Oldskool, I've switched most of the buggie to the hex screws but not the diffs. Do you know if the hex diff scres are included in those RC screw kits that are popular now?

I'm using that screw kit from RCScrewz.com. They are well worth the $25 and they include every screw on the car (including the set screws and the smaller 2mm screws). Like OS stated, its much easier now to get the screws on the car tight and to keep them tight. Many will argue this, but I feel that machine screws grip plastic better anyways due to the larger number of threads.

[dgrobe2112]

definitly get rid of the phillips screws.. those hex screws are alot better.. i got a stainless kit for my car.. love it.. only prob though.. is stainless is pretty soft.. sometimes when a screw is really tight.. its hard to take it out.. i have rounded a couple like that.. but just used the screw chaser.. and got them out pretty quick..

i havent replaced the diff screws with hex.. i thought about it.. but didnt.. will do that on the next rebuild..

[uDi_MP75]

I think I prefer phillips heads mainly so I don't have any worries with which driver fits which perfectly etc etc, and also because I seem to be quite good at stripping out hex heads. (about half of the screws on my K2 are hex, half phillips..... until I strip out more hexes :D)

Either way though, some good machine screws for the diff cases, and I think leaking will be a thing of the past - check the gaskets too just in case they're ripped or something.

[OldskoolGT]

I actually like the phillips head screws too, except for the diffs. I could never find a screwdriver that fit those screws.

[uDi_MP75]

phew thought i was the weird odd one out for a second. It's okay i know i still am :D

Anyways.. on the topic of screws I have a small issue.

Got a used C5 in the mail yesterday, after pulling off backplate to check conrod nick etc, I put the plate on and hand turned the screws in to tighten them later. Today I carefully tightened them, very lightly and slowly getting tighter, but didn't go too hard. Anyway's i'll cut the story short - the screws weren't the originals, some weak metal from what I see, and they had all twisted.

I carefully got three out, but on one of them the head twisted right off - I didn't stop in time.

Took the backplate off and the stub of the screw is about flush with the case surface, so no chance of getting plier to it.

What on earth can I do? :( :(

I was thinking setting up a drill press at school or something to hold engine in place, and use tiny drill bit to drill the stub through and hope the leavings fall out. Would be really hard to do it without damaging case threads though.

dammit im so pissed

someone help. thanks!

[dgrobe2112]

Well that sux.. RB motors use flat tip screws on their screws.. i dont like them.. hard to get them tight.. uhh.. the best thing i can think of.. would be to chase the screw out.. or maybe just go with 3 screws.. you will have air problems unless you seal it pretty good..

[7.5man]

udi:

If you have access to a dremel use a cutting disc to make a slot in the screw and then turn it out with a good flat blade screwdriver. Try not to put to much of a groove in the block when doing this.

After you get the screw out clean up the block really well and put some JB Weld epoxy in the grooves you made with the dremel. You should only need a small amount and make it flush with the rest of the block. Just remember to seal the back plate and you should be good to go.

You might want to get new screws for the back plate as well to stop the problem from happening again.

:)

[dgrobe2112]

you would need a small flat head screw driver to get those screws out.. prolly even smaller than a tuning screwdriver..

[uDi_MP75]

Cheers guys I didn't have a chance to get back on the net last night to say I got it out before you guys posted..... I got a small pin and really carefully pushed one side of the stub bit by bit 1/4 turn by 1/4 turn till i had like 2mm our (yay) and then just got the pliers and turned it out.

Damn so those cheap flatheads are stock RB? I thought the dude who sold me it put them in. They SUCK! how cheap is that, I swear I used like only a tiny bit of pressure, I barely got into actually tightening them down, they just twisted out on me. I don't mind flatehead, I have my OS hexes all cut into to accept a flathead, but seriously those RB ones were weak. Maybe they weakened over time, whatever it was it wasn't nice.

I grabbed my trusty j.ap made OS backplate screws and used them instead for now, will replace the head screws asap too.

[joepa]

Question for you guys...I've seen a few K3 TCD diffs on ebay, where the internal diff gears appear to be silver in color. I was expecting these gears to be dark gray, signifying the hardened steel variety. I'm upgrading my Sports and I don't want to get burned buying aluminum gears. Has Kyosho changed the metal they use on the K3 gears, or is this false advertising? Or perhaps just a bad picture? Thanks in advance...

[dgrobe2112]

Joe.. the TCD is not the LSD diff.. i am pretty sure they are different.. and the stock kyosho gears.. are silver in color.. for the regular diffs.. the LSD diffs have a darker color to them.. and also some square block with a circle cut out for the diff gear.. so you are fine.. dont worry bout it.. if you were to go to your local hobby shot and buy replacement gears.. they are the silver color as well..

Now.. in your sports.. i reccommend getting the upgraded pinion gear inside the diff housing.. cuz yours in your sport are aluminum.. not steel..

[joepa]

Thanks dgrobe, but now I'm really confused. I thought, at least in Kyosho's terminology, that the LSD and TCD diffs were one in the same?

I'm aware that my Sports came with aluminum diff gears, which is why I'm upgrading to the Kanai 2 diffs, which I believe are LSD/TCD, and hardened steel as standard (front and center).

I guess my question is this... If I see silver gears for an Inferno front diff, should I assume that they are aluminum? Sorry if I'm confusing the issue here...

[atm92484_3]

Last time I checked the TCD (Traction Controlling Diff) was just Kyosho terminology for their LSD design (Limited Slip Diff) which incorporated 4 blocks around the smaller pinion gears in the diff instead of a system of gears to induce a resistance force when the diff unloads.

Joe, if the gear set you are buying includes 6 gears and 4 blocks, then its the TCD set. Otherwise its just the standard aluminum gears that require silicon fluid to tune the diff. The standard aluminum gears are fine durability wise though as long as you use 4 pinion gears and fluid (this is standard on the regular 7.5 in all 3 diffs, rear diff on the K1 and K2, and center and rear diff on the K3).

[dgrobe2112]

ahh.. ok.. i thought the LSD was kyosho with the blocks around the small gears.. and tcd was the standard diff..

well.. the sports kit has good diffs.. gotta use diff fluids for them.. also.. the sports has only 2 smaller gears in the diff rather than 4

[joepa]

Got it. Thanks for the clarification fellas.

[OldskoolGT]

Definitely be weary of ebay auctions. I have seen auctions where a complete diff set is labeled as TCD when its just a standard gear set.

[dgrobe2112]

Kanai ben 88 on ebay is a great ebay seller.. and he parts out K3 and K2 stuff.. so dont worry bout buying from him..

Joe.. definitly look to replacing the pinion gear in your car that is inside the diff case.. no inside the diff.. but that the big gear outside the diff turns with.. i think its called the ring and pinion gear.. or bevel gear..

[joepa]

Thanks for the heads up dgrobe!

[blemaxx]

Hey if you want a front K3 Diff I have one I got off E-Bay for my Lightning but then I just bought a K3 so I would sell it to you. It is new never even took it out of the zip lock it was sent in! Let me know. I got it from ben88_kanai last week.
tradclimber1076@msn.com

[vtrick]

I need some advise concerning my Kanai 3. I keep having problems with my rear universals popping out of my differential out drive when jumping. Somewhere I read a fix for the problem but can't find it now. As my memory serves me I can either change the rear shocks to the shorter K2's or replace the rear K3 swing shafts with K3 or K2 front swing shafts. Does this sound correct? Are the front swing shafts the same for the K2 and K3's?
thanks for any help

[OldskoolGT]

vtrick,

Kyosho put the wrong length rear universals in quite a few K3 kits which results in the popping out problem. Contact Great Planes (if you bought through a retailer that used them) and they should exchange the universals for the correct ones. The real IF125 universals are serveral mm longer than what came in my K3 kit.

[uaerc]

You can also use some O rings with grease.......till you get them replaced. It might give them a slightly tighter fit which would help.

Regards
uaerc