Brushless Motor Forum v1.0

[crono man]

1500 cells are usually budget cells and have horrific internal resistance they just cant cope with the amp draw...using your 1500 packs with bl motors is like sending them to electric chair:D

[k_sw31]

yeah, guess your right.

Just ran my 2 3000's through it, and for the most part ran great, except about half way through each pack, i'd floor it and it would go about 5 feet and stop, id floor it again and it would do the same thing, i need to let it sit for a minute or so then it would run fine, oh and the speed control is NOT thermaling, a huge heatsink takes care of that;) strange, but hey, it's worth it.

I think i'll pickup some 3300's soon.

[RC_snoopy]

Sounds to me like it's thermalling.
Your t3 should be popping wheelies like crazy, you sure it's not over geared. brushless motors are very sensitive to gearing and you really notice a lack of torque if it's overgeared.

As for the question about the wires, does'nt matter which way they are configured as long as it is spinning the way you need.
Have'nt set up a warrior esc, so i can't comment on the calibrations for it, sorry.

[k_sw31]

its only at 16/87 with mashers tires.

[Timmy]

Hmm that doesn't sound to high. Best thing to do is try a 13,14,15T pinion in there and see how it runs. I mean I am not sure if you have all those but maybe someone would let you borrow theres. With those big tires you gota gear down alot more. I mean think of it as a stampede when you gear not a T3. They run 12/87 for a motor as hot as a BL. Well good luck and let me know how it goes. Did you get the 5300/7018 lehner combo by the way.

[k_sw31]

Yeah, thats the combo i got, i emailed fine design rc and i'll see what they say. I Guess i could try using smaller tires, but its still geared down two teeth from stock. :confused:

[DamianD1]

The only reason for your batteries to get too hot is that you are loading them too much. That is probably why you cannot use the 1500 either.

If you overload your batteries you will shorten their life. Try going to a smaller pinion.

[krisI.925]

i got more court hearing today and if all goes well im gonna be getting a BL set up that i have wanted for so long. But when i first get it ill be running 1500s (i dont care if they die there almost dead anyway) but im not sure what batteries to get tho. Or a desent charger(s).

I cant deside what batts to go with. I was thinking of 2 pairs of the 2400s from ballistic batteries that are $65 a pair. Or get some matched 3000s. Or if i should get some 3300s. But what ever it is i have to be able to buy them in pairs.

And whats a good charger(s). I was thinking of maybe getting a super brain 959 then maybe buy a second one later. Or buy a charger that can charge 2 batts at the same time. Im looking for something that isnt over $100. Even $80 is pushing it. I would also like something that i could cycle my batteries with and can use AC power. Can some one suggest some for me. Thanx for all the help.

[crono man]

dont know about the charger(ive got a novak milineum pro works great but its not a good choice for maxx users)

for the cells no question about it go with sanyo 3000hv cells they keep their voltage along the whole discharge curve and you recharge more often than nicads..

but whatever you do dont get stick packs the cheap welded tabs causes them to become very hot!!..assemble the cells yourself with quality bars

[krisI.925]

ya i was thinking about doing that. I will be buying this stuff from ballistic batteries i would think they would build there packs with quality components. But if i do build my own packs i will probably go with 10 cells and not 12. Now how much for a battery jig and the solder and bars and all that good stuff. And Deans connecters. And what gage wireing should i use. I currently use 13 should i stick with that.

[Soya]

I use 10 gauge on all my stuff:)
Oh, try the Dynamite Dual-E. Two batts at once!

[GiantScale]

hey..

what happened to the rest of the thread???

I can only see the first page:(

Mike

[k_sw31]

'd recommend the 959, works great for me, i sugget you only get side by side packs, and, as i just figured out, cheap 1500's do not work worth a damn!

Get nice 3300's or 3000's my friend, it will be alot better, trust me.

Well, i'm converting all my packs to side by side, i'll see if that helps, Today i ran my t3 with seven cells, and, it wheelies! The only prob. is it broke my k'nex wheelie bar :rolleyes: so now it flips, but hey... it wheelies, i'll see if it does with 6 cells...

[k_sw31]

Your t3 should be popping wheelies like crazy

Well, it doesn't pop wheelies like crazy

[Soya]

Yeah, my E-maxx just lights up all 4 tires:D

[k_sw31]

yeah, my slipper is locked and it does slip for about 5 feet. I think i'll try 8 cells, see what that does ;) If i were to go down to a 14 tooth would kick a**.

[k_sw31]

trust me, the esc doesn't even get warm with this heat sink.

[k_sw31]

hey guys, heres an equasion for ya, 8 cells+Nighttime+basketball hoop=


Good thing i have spares!;)

[Soya]

Ouch, hope you have a spare dogbone:)
I need a heatsink like that for mine....

[JeepsDaddy]

to the guy with the T-3... you are wayyyyyyyyyyyy overgeared with those MT tires on a T-3..... try 14/90 or lower.... (like 13/91)

oh and... good thing the slipper is still slipping... you would be stripping out spurs left and right if it wasn't... LOL... eventually you'll need to lock the slipper with 2 short screws, and run a 32 pitch pinion and spur.... (but the spur is gonna have to be HUGE... LOL) .....

then... you'll start destroying idlers... thanksfully there are metal replacements available....

then lastly.. you'll start snapping off rear axle roll pins in the rims... a little bit of custom work later, and you'll be runnning dual pins in each axle, and the driveline will be relatively bulletproof...

peace out... :)

[JeepsDaddy]

to the guy with the T-3... you are wayyyyyyyyyyyy overgeared with those MT tires on a T-3..... try 14/90 or lower.... (like 13/91)

oh and... good thing the slipper is still slipping... you would be stripping out spurs left and right if it wasn't... LOL... eventually you'll need to lock the slipper with 2 short screws, and run a 32 pitch pinion and spur.... (but the spur is gonna have to be HUGE... LOL) .....

then... you'll start destroying idlers... thanksfully there are metal replacements available....

then lastly.. you'll start snapping off rear axle roll pins in the rims... a little bit of custom work later, and you'll be runnning dual pins in each axle, and the driveline will be relatively bulletproof...

peace out... :)

[JeepsDaddy]

to the guy with the T-3... you are wayyyyyyyyyyyy overgeared with those MT tires on a T-3..... try 14/90 or lower.... (like 13/91)

oh and... good thing the slipper is still slipping... you would be stripping out spurs left and right if it wasn't... LOL... eventually you'll need to lock the slipper with 2 short screws, and run a 32 pitch pinion and spur.... (but the spur is gonna have to be HUGE... LOL) .....

then... you'll start destroying idlers... thanksfully there are metal replacements available....

then lastly.. you'll start snapping off rear axle roll pins in the rims... a little bit of custom work later, and you'll be runnning dual pins in each axle, and the driveline will be relatively bulletproof...

peace out... :)

[Soya]

You hit the reply button once, buddy;)

[k_sw31]

thanx, i'll try running 16/90 and then 16/93 (the lowest i have is 16) Soya, i got the heatsink cause my brother took it from a box at our hi school, they have boxes and boxes of these and cooling fans just sitting around, hehe, i'd imagine you could pick up something like it a radioshack.

[k_sw31]

Hey guys, I just though I'd let you know, rc-jockey has/is making a brushless motor site at www.rcbrushless.com

[gixxer]

My six cells doesn't last very long aprox 3.4mins. "rc2400" What batteries are most running and how many cells?

[k_sw31]

i only use my 3000's at 7 or 8 cells. I'm gonna get some 3300's soon.

[k_sw31]

Wow, that was strange. I just ran one of my 1500's and it ran great! The lower gearing must've helped A LOT.


Its amazing how much dirt you can throw with paddle tires :D

[SandManRacing]

I just tried my bushless setup !

Hacker C40-8S
Hacker Jeti Car controler

I intalled it on my T3 and I'm happy with the results. The cogging if very short. It is like a VERY short delay before the truck start moving after a complete stop.

The speed is quite good with 6cells and a 15 teeth pinion. Maybe a little more than with my Fantom 19 turns. With 9cells the truck seems very fast, but I couldn't see the top speed because of the slippery surface. I was trying it in an indoor parking (it is raining here today).

I tryed 15 to 20 teeth pinion and a 87 teeth spur gear. The best setting is between 17 and 19 teeth for the pinion.

With a 20 teeth pinion and 9 cells the controler and the motor became just a little warm. The acceleration was still very good. At half speed the car would do 360s when I hit full throttle.

I didn't have any problem with the installation or controler settings. Everything is set for factory (default) settings.

I'll post some pics here and on my web page soon :)

Check out for a coming movie on my web site soon !
(I hope I will have the chance to record one in the next weeks)

Bye

SandMan
http://rccars.ca.tc

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by SandManRacing



The speed is quite good with 6cells and a 15 teeth pinion. Maybe a little more than with my Fantom 19 turns. With 9cells the truck seems very fast, but I couldn't see the top speed because of the slippery surface. I was trying it in an indoor parking (it is raining here today).



Fast as a 19 turn!!!

16/93 in my t3 and with 8 cells it goes faster than my gt! (lehner 5300)

[crono man]

sandmanracing

-is the controller as smooth as a brushed esc?
-is this cogging only apparent only 1 time or will i experience it many times during a race?
thanks:)

[SandManRacing]

k_sw31 I said: WITH 6 CELLS AND A 15 TEETH PINION...

Crono Man, The ESC is smooth. The throttle is proportionnal and the controler has a current limiter. The torque is very high so I will need to practice a little to be more familar with the control. The brake are also proportionals and are powerfull enough.

The cogging effect only happens when you start from a stand still. If you don't stop completely you won't have cogging. But as I said the delay is very short and not too annoying.

Bye

[SandManRacing]

BTW, I only tryed the setup during about 10 min. I will give you more feedback later.

Bye !

[k_sw31]

Like i said, 16 tooth pinion, 93 spur for me!

[SandManRacing]

But you said 8 cells ...

And I maybe wrong about the speed. This is just an approximation. I will do more precise mesurements soon.

[SandManRacing]

k_sw31 Maybe your motor has a lower winding than mine.

C40-8S = 5250 KV
C40-6S = 6942 KV !!!

I have a 8S.

At 7.2v 8S = 37800 RPM 6S = 49942 RPM

At 10.8v 8S = 56700 RPM 6S = 74973 RPM

At 12v 8S = 63000 RPM 6S = 83304 RPM


The controller limit the RPM of the motor. So you won't reach 80000 RPM. I bough a 8 turn, so if I want to race I will have good performances and good run time. In a race faster don't mean better. If I want to go fast in a parking I just have to put some more cells and I will get the same speed as a 6 turns. But I will get this speed with a higher cell count.

To reach 50000 RPM I need 9 cells for a 8 turns and only 6 cells for a 6 turns.

Your lehner 5300 has how many winding ?

[k_sw31]

geez man, sorry, didn't mean to tick you off! I was just sorta surprised.

Anyways, in terms of rpm, were just equal, i have a little more than 38000 at 6 cells. I'm not sure what the rated winding is. I was just surprised i mean, my t3 is 3 times as fast with my 19 turn as it is now, then again, i did hive pretty big tires.

[k_sw31]

my lehner has 5300 rpms a volt.

[SandManRacing]

Ha ok, it's almost like my 8 turns.

I wasn't upset, I was just trying to be clear. No offence ;)

I tryed my truck today on the street with 9 cells and a 18 teeth pinion. The truck is very fast. The motor and controler are just a very little warm after about 5 min of full speed. The top speed is way higher than with 6 cells. Almost twice I think. But didn't have time to measure the speed yet and forgot to time the runtime. The pack used is not the best. I made it with a 6cells 2000mha pack and 3 1500mha cells plugged in serie. The runtime should be better with a whole 2000mha pack. I will go buy some cells soon.

The control was very good on asphalt.

That's it for today :)

Bye

[k_sw31]

k, every things good then.

I just find it odd that with the same gearing mine goes a lot faster (or so it sounds than yours) when we have practically the same rpms.

Now imagine, hehe, hacker c40 4s, at over 8000 rpms per volt with 20 cells in a funny car with a microswitch. Hehe, insane. I guess the motor would blow up though. :rolleyes: ;)

[SandManRacing]

How can you use a microswitch with a brushless motor anyway ?
Just wondering.

[Soya]

I'm not thinking you can:rolleyes:

[k_sw31]

um, i'm not sure, but, theres probably away, though, then again mayby not, I mean, they'd be huge in dragging

[crono man]

a guy on maxxtraxx said that when he installed a receiver pack with his warrior controller all the cogging was gone..the controller was as smooth as a brushed esc!
can someone please confirm this..

[k_sw31]

yep, its true, except at very low speeds, like you can't crawl along at .5 mph. But, its very smooth.

[crono man]

k_sw31-2 question for ya

1.does it become smooth enough for racing?

2.why does the rx pack make controller smoother?

thanks
:)

[k_sw31]

1. yes it is. Like, 95% as smooth as a brushed setup.

2. Um, i think because the bec causes 'cogging' (i think) so using as rx pack eliminate the esc from using bec, so it doesn't cog, (i don't exactly know for sure though, i'm just guessing)

[k_sw31]

Oh, yeah, the setup has INCREDIBLE brakes.

I just ran it with 6 1500's and new gladiator tires, low and behold, IT WHEELIES, although they are sluggish, it would wheelie till the pack was halfway dumped. can't wait to try 7, and 8.

[saw]

i was running a warrior with a 5300 motor. i switched to a 1870 controller and messed around with the programming. i changed the grads (degrees) to 5 factory setup is 15. i set the spin up time lower than the factory setting. i ran it in a xx4 with a reciever pack, i had the motor geared with the stock spur and 15 tooth pinion. it was awesome absouletely no cogging even when the battery pack was dumping and abslolutely no hesitation coming out of the corners like i was experiencing before. it was like driving a brushed motor, but with more power and no comm wear. i plan to mess around with the programming more but i don't really see how i can improve on the performance i am getting now.

[saw]

with the lehner stuff i found you have to run a reciever pack or you will get cogging. i also think that a lot of the cogging issues are from being overgeared. brushless have so much torque that it is easy to overgear them because they will pull it. how i understand it (i may be wrong) is that on start up the motor has to overcome the load presented to it. the taller the gear ratio the more load it has to overcome and the more likely it is to cog.
later

[crono man]

i really dont know wich controller to get...ill be running 1/12 onroad racing this winter and 2wdoffroad this summer im really not looking for insane speed runs(the most ill try is 8cells on occasion)anyway i was looking at the lehner warrior series controller..

-please tell me your honest opinion on this controller.
-can i get by without using Rx packs for cogging?
-do i really need the high end 1870 series or schulze controllers?

my number 1 conscern is cogging because i will be racing

thanks for aby input:)

[k_sw31]

sorry crono, but you could NOT race with out a reviever pack.

You will probably be fine with the warrior for racing as long as you use a rx pack.

[Soya]

My maxx's got wicked brakes. When I hit the brakes at top speed (which is about 15 with the current gearing; rockcrawling:D), it does at least 1 forward flip :eek:

[crono man]

cool thanks for your replys k_sw31,so if understand correctly if i install a Rx pack the warrior controller is as smooth as brushed esc?if thats the only thing that it takes then il take it anyday:D

thanks again:)

[saw]

with lehner controllers i have found that you must use a reciever pack or their will be cogging, but i have only run them in touring cars and off road buggys wich are considerably heavier than a 1/12 scale pan car. i would not recomend the warrior for racing applications, i think you need the programing ability of their other controllers. you can change the power output, the braking, and the spin up time. like i posted earlier i wasn't experiencing any cogging when i was runing a reciever pack but i was experiencing a small lag when coming out of corners but i was able to program around that and get rid of it. i don't think that is possible with the warrior. with the warrior you would be limited to what vehicles you can use it in. if i wasn't careful with the throttle i could make it thermal in my xx4

[k_sw31]

well, it depends on how serious you'll be racing, even if your up against p-94's d5's etc. you still have the power to beat them, even if the controller does have a little lag (i have experienced a little myself, but you can always gear down a tooth) its up to you.

Saw, try zip tieing a small heatsink to it, help a great amount. And, well, something like this, makes sure it NEVER thermals, (i don't need it, but it was the only heat sink i had lying around)

[saw]

with the warrior i only had thermal problems in four wheel drives. in my xxx it never thermaled on me.

[k_sw31]

oh... Yeah, it never thermaled in my t3, although it got a little warm. And i figured, hey what the heck.

[Timmy]

Hey guys you may have seen me in the chat as Timmy alot. I am looking to get into brushless some time this year. I have been lookig at getting the same system as k_sw31. I belive he has the warrior/5300. I will be running in a TC3 which is 4wd. Now I have been reading about clogging problems. What does it actually mean technically. I know it like doesn't go smooth and all. So if you gear down it will not clog as muc or at all then. I guess your lossing top speed when you do it then. I was wondering if anyone has tried this in a TC3 and what top speed they are getting. BTW k_sw31 have you had the T3 clocked yet. I guess you probably see me alot more in the BL forum. Good luck with your systems guys I go to go to school.

[saw]

i had the 5300 in my xxxs geared three teeth bigger on the pinion than i would gear a p2k. it was faster than my dads electric rail with a eight turn ti on six cells. but it would only run about three to four minutes. i never experimented with it in my touring car very much but i will this winter

[rawbert]

I just finished the setup in my electric 2wd losi mfe. It looks pretty, I have everything nice, I even fit a receiver pack. I'm using the OFNA Brick cells, 5 of them, so they're pretty damn small. I was expeirencing issues without it, my car would loose control and glitch uncontrolably when I got to the end of the straight (I don't know why, it never did this with my brushed) so I'm going to try a receiver pack.

I'm using aveox rc7 / l160rc speed control

[rawbert]

man this sucks.. with my brushless motor, if i go like 14 feet away from it, it starts to glitch and go by itself , but i hooked a receiver pack up to it, and stood like 50 ft away, and the steering worked fine, but when i hook the throttle up to the receiver and do it, it starts glitching like crazy and going by itself, so its something with the motor/controller, i tried changing receivers and crystals but no luck.. its a aveox rc7 and l160rc speed control... the chassis and parts (shock towers) are graphite,not carbon graphite, but graphite, and the antenna isnt touching it, so i dont know!

any ideas?

[k_sw31]

Sorry man, never been good at detecting glitches. Good luck though.



Timmy- Well, Haven't clocked my t3, and i have no way of doing it, unless i use the 100 foot formula.

I'd guess with 6 cells, and 16/93 gearing, it goes, 35-45. Even faster with 7, and 8 insane!

I think i'll try with a 22 tooth pinion, hehe.

[vladivad]

Rawbert- I put the same setup in my tc3 perhaps a month ago and I have the exact same problem or maybe even worse since it is now completely out of control. with extreme glitches from any distance. The first month I had it sounds similar to your current situation. I just recently bought a reciever pack thinking that it would fix the problem but no luck. This situation is so lame since I spent two weeks looking for the best bl setup. Now I am back to using my brushed motor with no problems. I bought my aveox from this guy called gliders on ebay. Where did you get yours? If its the same guy, maybe we should notify him.:confused:

[rawbert]

I got it from the exact same guy :/

[vladivad]

Wow that was a fast response. I suggest you e mail him today discribing your problem in detail since that is what I will be doing. I think he consistently sells this same unit so maybe we can work something out with him. What do you think? By the way can I see a pic of your setup? I am posting one of mine now. Later!

[k_sw31]

*drool runs out of my mouth*

[Soya]

Very clean, unlike my setup:(

[vladivad]

Even if I get my aveox fixed I am still planning on buying a hacker c40 with the car master sport controller which I was told is coming out in two weeks. Right now I am on a waiting list for that controller and the guy I was talking to said that there is virtually no cogging on this controller. He also mentioned that since I have a tc3 I should go with the c40-s which is the short type instead of the similar but a bit longer c40-l. Supposedly the long type has a bit more torque if you use more than 6 or 7 cells. Any way I plan on running 9 cells on it so I can kiss my new ferrari body good bye. Heres a pic.;)

[Soya]

Let me be the first to say:
NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[k_sw31]

OMG, why don't you let your wires run free like the wind, free to get in the way? Your so cruel ;) lol

[vladivad]

Thanks Soya,

I have so many bodies right now it is getting ridiculous. Yeah the motor and controller have an inch of wire between them. Too bad its out of order. I just ordered an airtronics m8 fm transmitter so I will see if that fixes anything. I have been thinking about getting a digital servo but I really don`t know how well brushless, sensorless motor set ups will react with the digital type recievers. Does anyone know something about this? Anyways I don`t race but I do enjoy buying the latest, greatest equipment plus I live in Japan now so it is quite fun. Funny though, I have an american made car with american made electronics. I think that might be because everyone else here has tamiya. :rolleyes:

[k_sw31]

well if you like buying stuff...;)

[hk-en-]

Originally posted by vladivad
Even if I get my aveox fixed I am still planning on buying a hacker c40 with the car master sport controller which I was told is coming out in two weeks. Right now I am on a waiting list for that controller and the guy I was talking to said that there is virtually no cogging on this controller. He also mentioned that since I have a tc3 I should go with the c40-s which is the short type instead of the similar but a bit longer c40-l. Supposedly the long type has a bit more torque if you use more than 6 or 7 cells. Any way I plan on running 9 cells on it so I can kiss my new ferrari body good bye. Heres a pic.;)

That guy is right about the cogging. There is none. I just got my controller today. I put it in to my car that has been waiting for a controller for about 2 month, and all i have to say is "AWSOME".
I have a c40 6s running on 6 cells and 26/87 gearing. Speed and torq are just incredible best part is it feels just like a regular brushed esc. I also has the reverse lock out which i really like too.
2 thumbs up for hacker.

[Timmy]

vald - That is very nice. Well I got a few questions for ya. First I noticed the upgraded driveshaft, do you remeber what kind it is. I was thinking hardcore maybe. Also have you upgraded any other drivetrain like the shaft cups or the outdrives. I wana put a Brushless in my TC3 also that why I am tring to find out what I have to get before I put the BL in there.

In noticed both you and some other guy are having problem with your system. I hope you can get it all worked out. At this point when I get BL I am thinking of getting the lehner warrior/5300 system.

Do you have any problems with clogging in the TC3. Also what gearing are you running and I assume with 6 cells right. What do you think your top speed and runtimes are. I am going to be using 2400's. Sorry for all the questions but this is going to be one of my biggest rc investments. $250 for the system and like $60-70 in upgrades. Not to metion I should get an FM radio. Well thanks alot if you reply. I owe you one.

k_sw31: How the truck and the BL running. Asking for an update of how the lehner is holdin up. Good luck with it. I gota go to school.

[Soya]

$250 for the system? Please, mine was $380:(

[crono man]

hk-en-do you think the hacker car controller would fit in a rc12l3 with 6cells?

thanks:)

[crono man]

hey guys check out trinity website there is a interseting interview ernest provetti(trinity prez)..he talks about the forthcoming brushless era and what his position on the subject is..(he wants to become ROAR president)

[SandManRacing]

The Hacker C40-S and Hacker Master Car controller is a great setup.

If you want to take a look at the controller manual, just go on my website and click on the link :)

http://rccars.ca.tc

Or you can view it directly here:

Hacker Master Car Controller (http://24.202.78.58:85/documents/Master-Car-Englisch.pdf)

The manual is in PDF format and is in English.

Bye

[k_sw31]

soya, they're making us look bad...

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by Timmy


k_sw31: How the truck and the BL running. Asking for an update of how the lehner is holdin up. Good luck with it. I gota go to school.

Everything is working well, i am currently running 16/87 gearing with gladiator tires, works great!

I figured out why my t3 wasn't wheelieing that easily, my front suspention was fully dropped, duh!:rolleyes:

[hk-en-]

Originally posted by crono man
hk-en-do you think the hacker car controller would fit in a rc12l3 with 6cells?

thanks:)

The controller would be hanging off the side of the chassis.
its a little bulky.

[crono man]

anybody has a idea if someone makes a controller small enough for 1/12 scale?
i looked at the lehner pico series..but is 40amps enough with 6cells and 5300motor?

[k_sw31]

no, the 5300 pulls 65 amps my friend.

[vladivad]

Tim- Yeah the first month I had the aveox in my tc3 it ran very quick with 7 cells but with cogging and glitched if I was like 50 feet away from it. I drive against a tamiya trf4142 that has a 9turn and I would say my car is about 25% faster and my battery lasts approx 18-23min. vs. his 10 min. I run the stock spur with a 25 tooth pinion with 3000cells. The shaft is an IRS I bought two months ago for like $25 but last week I saw the exact shaft with an associated package for $10. The rest of the car is factory stock. The japanese version came with a front one way and wheels with tires. I have a lead finger and drive my car as if it was stolen and so far had only the front shock tower break. I have had epic crashes with my car. I think for like 1 month sraight, everyday, it cartwheeled 10 to 15 feet. I experimented with bodies and I would have to say that the rear wing is VERY important. That picture is kind of old. My car is maybe 30% more aluminum now. I did a little reading and I would have to say that the aveox rc7 is about 7 or 8 years old now which is a relic in my eyes. It also has no flat on the shaft which makes no sense. I think the c40 hacker series would be best for the tc3. First, the 3 out wires point up and not straight out which is actually very important if you want the electronics to fit in the car. Second, the hacker controller has a case with heat sink, the aveox has shrink wrap and is open on both ends where all the gunk gets in. I was rather disappointed with its quality and the entire system is huge with wires everywhere. Looks very prone to breaking. Anyway which ever system you choose try to get a controller with some kind of case and a motor with a flat on the shaft. If you have any questions feel free. I don`t want to see you waste your money like I did. Now that I think about it, I am on my second round to finding the best bl setup which I should be able to complete this month. Later:D

[crono man]

crap..now im going to have to wait for the noval bl system(the dimension are small enough) or buy a small brushed esc(lrp quantum):eek: :(

[rawbert]

Did you ever fix the glitching of the aveox? I put in my other AM 75MHZ XR2 radio, and I can drive it pretty far away now, but if it was on the track it wouldn't do, because if I go 50' away it will glitch like it did, so it would glitch on the track. I'm thinking if I go to a FM or PCM radio, the range would be greater, and it would work.

[Soya]

Originally posted by k_sw31
Soya, they're making us look bad...
What do you mean?

[WhoKnowsWho]

Well, anybody who doesn't like cogging with the budget Lehner warrior controller/basic motor combination will have to put in a receiver pack. I finally got the BEC disabled correctly and in my XXX, and it ran great. No cogging that I could tell at all. And eventhough I extended the motor wires a bit, no glitching problems.

I see another brushless motor coming very soon...

I have to figure out a better mounting method for my touring car too. The way I had the controller mounted, it really shortened the radio range. These things 'cause a good bit of interference. So right next to the antenna and above the receiver is not recommended! :)

[k_sw31]

waut a sec, i'm supposed to disable the bec in my warrior? whoops, i just plugged a reciver pack into my reciever and it worked, at least i hope, what are you supposed to do?

These things 'cause a good bit of interference

Not sure what your talking about there, since you dont have anything rubbing together, (brushes and comm) theres less electrical noise, at least, thats what i've heard.

Soya, these guys actually have nice looking, clean chassis, plus they're setups seem nicer, atleast it think, whats happenig to the way of a slob, wait a sec, maybe i'm just living in a corner, ahhhhhhhhhhhh! i'm confused myself so i'm gonna stop typeing now. :confused:

[WhoKnowsWho]

Well, common sense would say to disable the already present supply of energy to the receiver if an external pack is to be used. That's why the black jumper is there to switch it on and off. And also why the instructions mention the jumper and the BEC 12 cell limit.

Black Jumper you can switch off or on BEC.
Jumper off - BEC is off Jumper on - BEC is on.
BEC only guaranteed up to 12 Cells

I know if I was running a normal BEC speed control, I would disable the BEC before hooking up a pack.

I guess some receivers/servos can take 9+ volts, I doubt the controller automatically disables BEC, it doesn't even auto-program! :)

I remember reading a couple things that the wires themselves 'cause interference. That's why the instructions for the Lehner motor say to keep the wires under 4". And I had those wires right next to the antenna on the 4-Tec so my range was poop.

I think my XXX is setup pretty well considering how quickly I did it! It's a lot better than the Zip Tie mess the 4-Tec was. This time, I only used one for the experimental RX pack.

And here's a comment from maximizer products:
"Do I need a receiver pack with my BEC controller? Not necessarily but it is a good idea. A small receiver pack (500-1000mAh) helps to alleviate "cogging" problems if they occur, especially towards the end of the run when your battery packs get weaker and the voltage drops.
You should use a receiver pack if you use more than 12 cells since BEC function tends to get less reliable.
The receiver pack is a good idea with motors with high rpm/Volt value and few cells (the Basic 5300 for example.) In that setup the voltage can drop to too low an amount quickly due to high drain by the motor at startup and cogging can occur."

edit: This response sure did jump around with random stuff, sorry about that! And try it without the black jumper, see how it works.

[vladivad]

HK-EN- What speed controller did you get from Hacker? Is it the Master car sport? This is the newest controller from them and the release date is suppose to be Nov.1. It is suppose to be the smoothest one yet. If that is the one, please tell me where you got it. Thanks

[hk-en-]

Yes that the controller i got.
I got mine from http://www.icare-rc.com/.
It really is smooth and cogging is not a problem.

[Timmy]

valdidad - Thanks for all the info you wrote. Now of course I got more questions. I saw something in there about the hacker system was good to get into the TC3. Can you give me the name of the motor and controller you were thinking of. Also is www.rumrunnerhobbies.com where to get it from or is there another place. I assume you wana get the hacker system too. That sucks that the Aveox system glictches and clogs like crazy. Does anyone here have the hacker system yet. Man there is alot of choices out there for BL. I am also wanting to see what the Novak system is like. The one I like the Competion I belive is said to have 51,000rpm with 6 cells. Not to metion it is sensored unlike the other hacker and lehner ones I belive. Well thanks again. If you have time try IM at Tapviper. I'd be happy to talk to you.

[SandManRacing]

I have the Hacker setup and have no problem at all.

The Novak kit won't be the best. Low power (ferrite magnets) and sensored (allows less RPM). The new generation of brushless controllers are now sensorless.

I will post some data, pictures and movies soon.

Bye,

[SandManRacing]

Novak Kit:
SUPER SPORT MOTOR

KV = 3600 RPM/V
Ferrite magnets
Sensored
First motor ever
Not available yet !

SUPER SPORT SPEED CONTROL

4-7 cell input voltage with forward and brake operation
Small
One-Touch Set-Up
Not available yet !


Hacker Kit:

Hacker C40-8S

KV = 5250 RPM/V
Neodyne magnets
Sensorless
Have a heatsink
Great motor selection

Hacker Master Car Controler

6-12 cell input voltage
Can set timing, frequency and Current Limiter
Have a heatsink
Forward/Brake or Forward/Brake/Reverse
Auto detect transmitter settings
...



Make your choice ! I made mine ;)

Bye

[crono man]

sandmanracing-i just talked to the french dude at icare(seems real nice) i think im going to get the hacker car controller..just have some few questions for you.

1.is the controller smooth enough for racing(is the cogging really noticable) for the short time you had it how would you rate the controller?

2.i will be using it with a lehner or orion sensorles bl motors do you think its compatible?

3.if im using 6cells what is the highest amp draw motor i can use?

4. the guy at icare told me that their will be another version of this controller which can take higher amps draw have you heard anything about that?

5.finally the most important is icare a good shop do deal with?

im sorry for all the questions its because im really close to ordering a controller for me and my friend and at that price i want to make sure that i dont make a mistake:D

thanks again for your reply:)

[SandManRacing]

I bought it at ICARE myself last week. The guy is really nice. Gave a lot of informations.

The controller is compatible with any brushless motor. Look at the manual. You can set it to want to want.

The controller is really smooth. I race too and I think it will blast the others !

I think the controller is better with t least 7 cells. But it can run great on 6 cell anyway. The reason I am saying that is if the voltage go below 5.3v or 0.7v/cell it will stop or cog. Since 6 x 0.7 = 4.2v You will loose some runtime by using 6 cells because it will stop at 5.3v anyway...

I will do some test in a moment for the runtimes. Wait for the results :)

I'm using an Hacker C40-8S and the controller don't get more than a little warm at 9 cells. I don't think low turn motor is a problem with this controller. It can handle 66 AMP continuous.

Bye !

[crono man]

thank you very much sandman for anwsering all my questions i think i just found my controller:D

thanks again:)

[SandManRacing]

You will want it much more after this Crono Man ;)

I just triyer it with 10 Cells !!!

Amazing. Must go over 90 KM/H or about 55 MPH

The run time... 10 min... yes 10 min !!!
I was playing in the street. VERY good acceleration. Had to tight my clutch. The truck is faster than my Mirage Vspec with a .21 Picco engine :eek:

No cogging at all. Very good control. Start immediatly when you hit the throttle. I love this kit :D

My pack was made of 1500mha and 2000 mha. So a whole 2400mha should be even better ! The speed started to decrease after about 7 or 8 min. This is because of the 1500s I guest.

I will now try a 6 cell 2400mha pack. If the rain stops :(

Bye !


I forgot... The temp of the motor and controller was about 110 F after the run. This is just warm to the touch.

[SandManRacing]

A little video I just made with my WebCam.

Hacker brushless video (http://24.202.78.58:85/videos/hacker8s%206cells%20divx.avi)

6 Cells

1.04 Mb

Forgive me about the quality of the video and the MSN sounds :rolleyes:

Bye !

http://rccars.ca.tc

[crono man]

the msn sounds are funny:p

when you have the time please give me your input with 6cells(that the number i will be running in my car)..

is the controller still as smooth as with 7or8 cells?

thanks again;)

[SandManRacing]

New video

With 10 cells this time :)

The picture in the previous movie was reversed. The left was the right. I don't know how to explain it.. But you'll see.

Hacker Kit 10 cells (http://24.202.78.58:85/videos/hacker8s%2010cells%20divx.avi)

Bye

[SandManRacing]

CronoMan

With 6 cells, I had a runtime of 15 min. Speed about 50 km/h or 30 MPH.

Acceleration good at the beginning of the pack but not to good after a while. The truck hesitate a little when you start at full throttle after a complete stop.

Good speed for the first 10 min. Last 5 min was a little slower.

I think the best would be to use 7 cells. That's what I will do ;)

I used 6 2400 mah cells.

I would have been happy to receive that much info beafore I buy the kit. But I don't regret it :D

Bye

[k_sw31]

With 6 cells, I had a runtime of 15 min. Speed about 50 km/h or 30 MPH.

About the same for me, with 1500's, i get 8 mins of run time, and with gearing of 16/87 i do 30-35 (this was done with a stop watch formula)

EDIT, how many cells should i use max with my setup (5300, warrior 7018)?

[crono man]

sandmanracing--to bad im limited to 6cells i guess will have to look elsewhere:(
(i think sensored technology is the only wat to go for me)

merci pour ton aide:)

[k_sw31]

note to self, do not powerslide t3 into leg at 30 mph, it hurts.

[crono man]

good one k_sw1:D :D :D

[Soya]

Or an E-maxx going 7' off a ramp and hitting my head:eek:

[k_sw31]

ya, one time, i didn't realize i was standing right in front of a junp iwas taking it off of :rolleyes: luckily i caught it before it went into my face, these knida things take talent.;)

[Soya]

The second time I jumped out of the way:)

[k_sw31]

life is dangerous ;)

[WhaDL]

Just found a link to the 'Ultimate BEC' - it's an external BEC device that you can possibly use instead of using a receiver pack to get around the limitations of your controller's own BEC circuit.

The advantage of this thing is that it is more efficient than the simple BEC circuit in your speed controller, putting out a higher output voltage for a given battery input voltage and, most importantly, can put out significantly more current to power all your servos and not overload your controller.

And it weighs only 0.75 ounces or 20 grams - which is a heck of a lot lighter than most receiver packs.

Can't say for sure that it will solve all the problems that a receiver pack will, but I'm guessing that it just might.

Anybody ever try one of these things ?

http://www.koolflightsystems.com/ultimatebec.htm

[SandManRacing]

Why don't use a voltage regulator ?

You can buy a 7805 for about 1 $

The input accept 5-18v
Output voltage = 5v
Output current = 1A

The ouput current can be increased with a power transistor...

7800 Family Data Sheet (http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC7800-D.PDF)

Price at DigiKey (http://www.digikey.com/scripts/us/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=13114&Row=176670)

Bye

[crono man]

sandmanracing-something i dont understand is the fact that the hacker manual says that the controller shuts off at 5.3v or .7v per cell thats lower than what is recommended for nimh packs!

but when you says the controler start to cog is that at the very end of the discharge(where the voltage is so low that the car is to slow to have fun)? or does the battery still have some valuable playing time in it?

[DamianD1]

SandManR.,

Have you tested the current limiter funtion of the controller? If you activate it, how does it perform? Does it extend running time?

[Soya]

Holy crap!! I was digging through Tower and I came upon these Tamiya pinions. They're 50/51 tooth!!! They're 48 pitch!!!!! YIKES!!!:eek:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXWU05&P=0

[SandManRacing]

Like I said, with 6 cells at half the pack the acceleration becomes not too good. If you hit the throttle to full speed the truck will hesitate. It does something comparable to a car that is on the end of the gaz tank. But you can continue to use it as long as you are more gentle on the throttle to start. The top speed is still good enough. I didn't experienced this problem with 9 and 10 cells. I guess it's because of the minimum votage required (5.3v). If you use a 7.2v pack and it's fully charged, when you drain a lot of current the voltage don't decrease too much. But when the pack is a little discharged, I think that a high current flow will decrease the voltage below or very near of 5.3v. That's what will cause the cogging. With a higher cells pack you won't go this low.

That's my theory ;)

For the current limmiter, yes I tested it. I set it to 60 AMP. Because with no limit, with a 6 cells pack I experienced more problems. BTW, this could be a solution for the previous problem. Maybe by setting the current limitter lower (30 A or 45 A) the voltage won't drop that much.

The current limiter should extend run time. But I guess the difference is not very big. It's more for the control. With a current limiter set low the acceleration becomes slower and the control beacomes better.

Hope this help

Bye

[SandManRacing]

My biggest pinion has 33 tooth ans my smallest has 13 tooth :)

[SandManRacing]

CronoMan, I don't know either why they choosed those numbers ...

Bye

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by Soya
Holy crap!! I was digging through Tower and I came upon these Tamiya pinions. They're 50/51 tooth!!! They're 48 pitch!!!!! YIKES!!!:eek:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXWU05&P=0

hehe, 51/60 in your bolink, ;) Well, i suppose it might work with two hacker c50s, sounds fun.

[alpinesky1]

hey guys, i need some help i need to put a heat sink on my Aveox L160RC controller, it over heats all the time, not Aveox's fault, i live in florida and its about 95 out side, with 110% hummity. now how would i put one on, one one each side of the controller, or on covering the whole top, their looks as if their are two sides to to the heat sink thats already on their, will i mess up the esc if i put a heat sink across them both like on a brushed esc or does it even mater on a brushless controller?????:confused:

Thanx;)

[WhoKnowsWho]

Soya... too bad those are metric 48 pitch gears. You would need to change the spur to the same metric pitch too, I wonder how fast a little pan car could go with that gearing!

[emnm79]

hey... i have a bl emaxx... currently not working.. waiting for a lehner 1930/6.. selling my hacker b508s... anyone interested? ill post some vids when i get it all shipped and hooked up :)

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by alpinesky1
hey guys, i need some help i need to put a heat sink on my Aveox L160RC controller, it over heats all the time, not Aveox's fault, i live in florida and its about 95 out side, with 110% hummity. now how would i put one on, one one each side of the controller, or on covering the whole top, their looks as if their are two sides to to the heat sink thats already on their, will i mess up the esc if i put a heat sink across them both like on a brushed esc or does it even mater on a brushless controller?????:confused:

Thanx;)

All i did is zip tie a 'small' heatsink onto my warrior 7018, i don't need it but hey, i had it lying around.

[k_sw31]

zip ties are my friends

[Soya]

Congrats, that's the third time you've posted that pick:rolleyes:
51/60, that's almost direct drive. It would cog itself to death. It did that with 35/60:rolleyes:

[k_sw31]

actually, thats the 4th or 5th, I'm going for 10!

oh f***, well, i ran 12 1500's in a series or paralell (the one that gives you more run time) and dammit! i freid my controller :mad: now i'm not sure how to get it repaired.

[vladivad]

Sandman-you were describing the type of cogging you have been experiencing. Are you using a reciever pack? Plus I read that if you go over 10 cells you need to use one so that all that juice doesn`t try to kill the reciever. Just curious since I am buying the exact setup you have. Thanks

[SandManRacing]

I never tried with a receiver pack.

With more than 10 cells you won't damage the receiver (not directly), but the ESC ! In the ESC you have a circuit that take the input voltage and always give 5v at the ouput. If you are using too much cells, the voltage appliyed to the circuit will be too high and it will break the parts.

Power = Volt x Amp

So if you use a 7.2v pack and your receiver and servos drain let say 1 amp.

Power = (7.2v - 5v) x 1A
Power = 2.2 Watt

If you are using a 12v pack (10 cells)

Power = (12v - 5v) x 1A
Power = 7 Watt

With 12 cells

Power = (14.4v - 5v) x 1 A
Power = 9.4 Watt

Ok, enough for the maths :rolleyes:

That's just to show you that the voltage regulator must be able to handle almost 10W with 12 cells. That why you must use a RX pack.

Bye !

[SandManRacing]

Maybe a receiver pack could solve the problem when used with 6 cells. I will try it some day.

An interesting note. With the hacker setup, when the pack is dead the car will hardly move but you will still be able to control the steering very well. Not like with a standard ESC for brushed motors. When the pack is dead with my old ESC the truck hardly move and the steering do not respond well if I give too much throttle. All the juice is applied to the motor and nothing left for the receiver and servos.

I tough it could interest someone.
But I don't know if it is the same for all brushless systems.

Bye

[krisI.925]

Im going to be racing my TXT-1 and im going up against clods with dual 10t single motors that run on 8 cells. Do you think a 4200 motor on 8 cells will be a bit faster or you think i should get like a 3100 motor on 12 cells or is there something better so i can have a little bit higher power level than everyone else.

[RCmaniac324]

Hey guys, im new to this site's boards, and since this thread is so huge, please forgive me if what i am about to ask has already been asked 10 times b4. I am a speed freak with a 2WD ST/MT (it claims to b a MT, but it looks like an ST chassis with 5" wheels. looks pretty sweet with my HPI nitro MT body on it though.) and i have gotten extremely sick of the constant motor maintennance with brushed systems. so i have been looking at some bl systems, and i wanted to ask: What do u guys think is the best system for $300 or less that will get my truck going 50-60 (or faster. the more, the better to kill my nitro friends with:D) without cogging and stuttering to death? I was thinking of a lehner 5300 and warrior 7018 controller with 10 cells and a reciever pack to get rid of the cogging (wheelie heaven. hehe:D ). do u think this would b the best, or is there another system that would b better for $300 or less? thanx.

[k_sw31]

well, with ten cells, could get around 50 with proper gearing and the 5300, but i think you'd be better off by getting a schulze controller because my 7018 esc just blew up with 12 cells in a paralell. :mad:

[k_sw31]

well, turns out the esc didn't fry, it was my reciever, guess the bec malfunctioned, because i went to run my regular gear and it did the same thing. I threw in my old, glitchy radio system, and it worked, (well, besides the glitching)

I guess i'll disable the esc's bec.

What do i do exactly, do i remove this thingy?

edit:will the aveox l160 rc controller work for my lehner?

[RCmaniac324]

i dont know. i had been wondering myself where those even were since they werent even visible in ne previous pics. maybe someone else can help you, but i think u may just pull it out. but PLEASE dont take my word for it, cuz im just guessing, i really dont know. if it feels to hard, dont force it, u may break it.

[k_sw31]

yeah, thats was i was thinking,

[DamianD1]

The Aveox L160 will not work with your Lehner, since the Aveox controller is sensor based and the Lehner motor is sensorless.

You can control a sensored motor with a sensorless controller but not the other way around.

[gizmoguy303]

holy curly fries this thread is long

[RCmaniac324]

hey guys, exactly how smooth does the warrior 7018 run when used with a reciever pack? is it as smooth as (or close too) the smoothness of a brushed setup? i am planning to run 10 cell max into it for my 5300 motor (to bring it within 2000 RPM of its design limit. hehe:D ) if i decide to get this setup. also, do ne of their other controllers work smoothly WITH the use of the BEC? (such as the micro 1870 BEC?) (on a side note: ne one know how to make a decent custom wheelie bar? i think im gonna need it for my 2WD ST:D :p )

[k_sw31]

never heard that term before, but, your right.

The Aveox L160 will not work with your Lehner

dang, cause i found the L160 on fine design rc's site under hot deals for only 100 dollars

[k_sw31]

hehe, http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/bdent.gif

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/jump.gif

[WhoKnowsWho]

k_sw31: Yes, that is the BEC disable jumper. It might be a little tough to pull out, wiggle it a bit and try to move the shrink wrap a bit and it will come out.

RCmaniac324: When I ran my XXX with the receiver pack, I really could not feel a difference in smoothness between it and a brushed system. Full throttle starts were no problem. The brakes did feel a tad weaker though, on asphalt at least. Though in the 4-Tec, the brakes were still strong enough to make the car lock the tires.

For $240 I paid for the Warrior 7018 and Basic 5300 motor, I really never found a better deal than that. I think that with a 10 cell pack, the receiver pack wouldn't be as necessary, but all I have are stick packs and I haven't tried yet. I need a 4200 motor to try 12 cells in the E-Maxx.

[RCmaniac324]

thanx whoknowswho. i have now decided to get the lehner 5300/7018 controller system(power+speed+affordability= a need for a nice strech of road and probably a wheelie bar:D ). grrrrrrrrrrrrr.....im mad cuz' rum runner hobbies got rid of the combo on their site that would have saved me $.:mad: now im gonna have to wait even longer to save up enough money. im 14 w/ almost no income and i have $218. its torture to b this close only to have to earn more than b4 on top of it. D***! oh well.

(PS: ive noticed in all the pics the writing on the motors and controllers are in german. do the ones rum runner sells have english labels? if not, do they at least come with english instruction manuals?thanx)

[alpinesky1]

hey i just got the shrink rap off my L160RC and found out that the two small copper heat sinks, one side has positve juice running through it and the other one has negitive juice goinig throught it, good thing i didnt put a heatb sink covering the top or i would of smoked the esc. So now im going to cut my old computer heat sink down and then cut it in half. i think ill shrink rap it down and put a little ca gulke to hold them in place, ill let you know what happens...:)

[ElectricThunder]

I'm trying to save up for a 4200 and 7018 too. The only difference is i only have 75 bucks (sniff sniff). But i get an income, not much though. (I hate bein' too young to work) Anyways, i was pretty mad when they took it down too, cause Christmas is right around the corner!!!!!! and i would have enough for at least half, so i could ask "santa" to pay for half. GRRRRRRR......what a cruel world we live in!!!!!!! O well, good luck alpinesky, don't zap yourself. It really stings!!!!!!!!!hahaha, anyways. O, one question, has anyone seen the novak brushless system? Is it any good, i know it's cheap, but can it compete with lehner or hacker? thanks

[RCmaniac324]

I havent seen it, but ive looked it up on their site. It is about $250 on tower (so basically thats the cheapest ull ever find it ne where), which is the same, if not more than, a lehner system(which i think performs a lot better). however, i personally think the system will not b too great. this is because it only gets 3600 RPM/Volt, 110 Watts/Volt, has ferrite magnets, and the controller can only accept 4-7 cells, so u cant even jack the power up to get a decent speed. so, with a 7.2 Volt(6 cell) pack, it would max out at 25,920 RPM and 792 Watts(which isnt bad, but still, u can get more with a lehner, which has neodymium magnets), so it will b like running a brushless stock or a very mild modified motor, just with a S*** load more torque to gear higher and accelerate faster.

so, in my opinion, just go with a lehner. its cheaper (i think. now that they dumped the combo at rum runners, im not sure), performs better (can get around 2.5 times the speed out of it b4 u redline the motor and risk throwing a magnet. plus with a 5300 u can get upto 1.18 HP, compared to the novak's................S***! didnt think the novak was that powerful, at 1.13 HP. just did the math. oh well, just leave it at more speed then. everyone likes speed:D ) is sensorless(less wires to deal with, plus the reason for the much higher possible RPMs), and is lighter (lets u get that extra MPH or two. plus lowers CG). so overall, the lehner, as far as i am concerned, is a much better system.

[Soya]

BOO!

[WhoKnowsWho]

It is too bad that combo was ended, maybe they will do another sale soon.

The wiring is simple. There are some downloadable instructions which take a couple of attempts to decipher, but here is the quick run down for a Basic Motor and Warrior controller.

Red and black for battery of course.

The three blue wires connect to the motor, doesn't matter in what order to the three plugs on the motor.

The orange jumper is for programming, remove, plug in battery and have the radio on. Beep for neutral, then full throttle on the radio, beep, then full reverse and a double beep. I think putting it back on neutral disables reverse if you do that instead of full reverse before the double beep.

Black jumper to disable bec, don't hook a receiver pack and leave that jumper on!

To reverse the motor direction, turn the radio on, plug the battery in, and unplug the orange jumper and plug it back in. It should beep and it will be reversed.

Copy and save this for when you get the motor and such.

[WhaDL]

What's required for a receiver pack ? I can't find out the necessary voltage anywhere.

Is it 4.8V or 6V ? (4 rechargable or 4 alkaline)

Thanks

[k_sw31]

Black jumper to disable bec, don't hook a receiver pack and leave that jumper on!

whoops.



The orange jumper is for programming, remove, plug in battery and have the radio on. Beep for neutral, then full throttle on the radio, beep, then full reverse and a double beep. I think putting it back on neutral disables reverse if you do that instead of full reverse before the double beep.

Thanks for that, i read somewhere on another board that this guy programmed his warrior, and it was as smooth as a brushed wsc, with out the reciever pack, but i was wondering how to do it.

Whadl, 4 cells for a reciever pack is fine.

Whoknowswho, where do you get the instructions?

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by Soya
BOO!

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/coffee.gif

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/lach.gif

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/astrosmiley.gif


i am planning to run 10 cell max into it for my 5300 motor (to bring it within 2000 RPM of its design limit. hehe

Well, actually ten cells would go way over the rpm limit it htink,

1.2x10= 12vtimes5300= about 63000 rpms, if i'm correct, they top out at 50000 r's.

[WhoKnowsWho]

Hmm... running a 4200 with 12 cells is over 60000 RPMs...
The rum runner site says they operate up to 65000 rpms. I would just watch the temp on the motor and controller really well, and not overgear it. When running stuff near the max, it probably doesn't take much to make it go pop.

There is a download link for both the motor and the Warrior controller. And the same programming instructions. :)http://www.rumrunnerhobbies.com/PowerSolutions.htm

It also says this on the site:
"Controller Info:

It is Recommended that you NOT use BEC on any car with high torque servo's. They pull too many amps and will overheat the controller!"

The normal receiver pack voltage is 6V, you can run 4.8 but with reduced servo strength and speed, and probably reduced range. If you use alkalines, use the 4 cell holder, which can get expensive. So far, Rechargable Rayovacs have worked for me. Even better is to get a NiMH 5 cell receiver pack like the ones for Nitro cars.

[k_sw31]

THANK YOU!!!

[krisI.925]

im gonna be racing with 2 6 cell packs in series. What batts do you guys suggest i should use. I want something of desent quality but not to expensive. I was thinking along the lines of those 2400s at ballisticbatteries.com where you can get a pair for 65 bux. Do you think those would work well?

[Soya]

My Integy put out INSANE voltage, about $37 unassembled for 6 cells. It was about 9 volts freshly charged:D

[k_sw31]

question,

The orange jumper is for programming, remove, plug in battery and have the radio on. Beep for neutral, then full throttle on the radio, beep, then full reverse and a double beep. I think putting it back on neutral disables reverse if you do that instead of full reverse before the double beep.

Well, it only works when i go, neutral, beep, reverse, beep, forward, double beep. I'm not sure if it works proberly, waiting for batt to charge.

[RCmaniac324]

Originally posted by WhoKnowsWho
Hmm... running a 4200 with 12 cells is over 60000 RPMs...
The rum runner site says they operate up to 65000 rpms. I would just watch the temp on the motor and controller really well, and not overgear it. When running stuff near the max, it probably doesn't take much to make it go pop.



I know the maximum possible RPM (by voltage) would be within 2000 RPM of the limit, but i just thought of someting. with a 2WD truck with 5" tires, 10 cells, and the motor system all jammed in/onto it, it would probably not top 61,000RPM with all the weight it would have to b trying to push at high speeds (im aimin for 60. :D :p hehe). am i correct, or are these motors really that powerful to reach the maximum RPM allowed by voltage that easily(unlike brushed motors which are all that ive run so far)?

[sLiTcH]

can anyone build me a good combo ( ESC and motor) of brushless I can order on the net and give me the adress I'm running it in XXX-S a direct fit would be best

[WhoKnowsWho]

k_sw31: Try switching the servo reverse switch for the throttle channel. If that doesn't do it, you might need to increase the amount of travel that the throttle trigger has to move for full throttle. If the controller doesn't detect enough movement, it will not beep.

RCmaniac324: I am not sure... I can't venture an answer for that one... I don't even know for sure what happens when you pass that 65000 RPM limit. Either the controller will fry because of the juice it has to pump. Or the magnets will fly off and the motor will be dead.

[k_sw31]

well, i tried that too, and it said it programmed successfully, but, it only had about 15,000 rpms, :( I'm thinking the controller is fried because i got my reciever to work in my gt. :mad:

[MarNaDaKi]

Well, after reading all brushless forums I could find for the last 2 months, I finnaly did it.

I ordered a kit !!!!

From www.icare-rc.com

Hacker C40 7s
and Master Car Sport controller

:) :D ;) :p


Slitch : I was hunting for a mild kit to install in a touring car on 6 cells just like you. Before I made my final decision, I had 3 kit in mind. The one I ordered, Aveox RC7/L160RC and Lehner Basic 4200 or 5300/Warrior 7018. They all have their pro's and con's.

[crono man]

the hacker car controller is looking pretty sweet i know that its rated at 66amps..my questions are

can it handle a lehner 5300 basic series?
what is the lowest turn motor it can handle?

[Soya]

No offense Crono, but you've been asking questions for quite a while. Aren't you ever going to get one?:confused:

[MarNaDaKi]

Crono Man

You should phone Icare. They speak french and are from Boucherville near Montreal. The best thing is that they are the North American (or they say so) distributor for Hacker. So for once, us Canadian people, can get d@mn good deal on their kit. I paid only 460$ Can for this kit. Have a look elsewhere for this kit in american $$$ and you will see... Could not pass on this deal...

[crono man]

soya--yea ive been reluctant to get a bl setup but you have to understand that ill be racing with this setup and i need something reallly smooth with only 6cells if you read the posts youll notice thats no easy task(current bl setups are geared more toward big speed 7cells+setup like yours)im going to have to use receiver packs or go sensored..

marnadki--thanks for the info:)

[k_sw31]

can it handle a lehner 5300 basic series?

Should be able to, since the lehner pulls about 65 amps, and theres probably a saftey factor of 5-10 amps you'd think so, i think it would be fine.

[MarNaDaKi]

crono man

I too was looking for smoothness with 6 cells. I choose Hacker Master Car Sport controller because cogging seems to be much less an issue than with the Warrior 7018 when setup without receiver pack. For sure, I will let you know my first experience with this setup as soon as I have enough riding time, so I am not going to talk through my hat.

At first, I was interested in the sensored Aveox for its smoothness. But after having read all over the web about it, I cancelled this option for several reasons.

[rawbert]

Originally posted by crono man
soya--yea ive been reluctant to get a bl setup but you have to understand that ill be racing with this setup and i need something reallly smooth with only 6cells if you read the posts youll notice thats no easy task(current bl setups are geared more toward big speed 7cells+setup like yours)im going to have to use receiver packs or go sensored..

marnadki--thanks for the info:)

Aveox RC7 / L160RC Setup

I've been running it in my 2wd truck for off-road with 6 cells, it has PLENTY of power!! Fast.

[k_sw31]

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!:mad:

Well, i'm pretty sure my controller or something is Fried! Its not my reciever so it must be my motor or controller. I'm pretty sure its my controller because part of the heatshrink was melted off :( Its like the motor can only get to 10,000 rpms. Although i did program it successfully, it still does the same thing. :mad:

I can't get a hold of fine design or rum runners, So i'm wondering how i can get it replaced. anyone no what to do?

[crono man]

marnadki--VERY interseted in hearing your results with 6cells:) theres also sandmanracing from trois-riviere on this forum that got the hacker controller(from icare) and seems very satisfied..

[vladivad]

marnadaki- I also just ordered my hacker c40-6s with master sport controller yesterday. This will be replacing my spazzing aveox system. To make sure I get everything under control I also just bought an airtronics m8 fm transmitter. I too will post my experience with the system. Have fun!!:)

[MarNaDaKi]

Vladivad

:eek: An M8 at the same time :eek:

What an hole in the wallet ? :D

Let me guess. You are ordering an M8 because your Aveox was glitching like crazy and it pisses you off. :p

[vladivad]

marnadaki- you got that right. Actually I want to have just one transmitter for all of my cars. By the way what kind of car are you putting the hacker in?

[crono man]

-hk-en-i understand that you have a hacker car controller with a hacker 6s motor..

could you please tell me if youre having thermaling problems?

is the controller getting very hot?

what is the gearing?

runtime?

and which cells are you using?

thanks alot:)

[MarNaDaKi]

Vladivad

It will be installed in my seriously hopped-up TB-01. So seriously that I can now call it a TB Evolution.

And what about you?

[vladivad]

marnadaki- Im putting it in my hopped up factory tc3. I posted some pics a few weeks ago. I believe its page 23. Wow this thread is huge.;)

[Soya]

Give it a few months and it'll be longer than the almighty RC10GT forum:D

[Soya]

I was a bit bored and I was reading through the first 8 or so pages of this forum, and I noticed I haven't seen Promod or Popup in a while:confused:

[k_sw31]

wow. that thing is HUGE! This deserves a BIG smily. ;)

[Soya]

Whoa, same time:D

[k_sw31]

http://216.40.241.68/cwm/big/disturbed.gif

[k_sw31]

http://216.40.249.192/mysmilies/contrib/chapel/bigfrogs/bigoh.gif

[k_sw31]

Omg math work is incredibly boring http://216.40.241.68/contrib/chapel/bigfrogs/bigsleep.gif

HEhe, this site it the funniest, there's like 5 megs of smily's to post.

[k_sw31]

now just because i'm special, doesn't mean you can make fun of me http://smilies.uniquehardware.co.uk/cwm/big/Duhard.gif

[Soya]

Hmm, I find you slightly disturbing;)

[k_sw31]

In that case you don't wanna meet my friends. ;)

[k_sw31]

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/vogel.gif

[hk-en-]

Originally posted by crono man
-hk-en-i understand that you have a hacker car controller with a hacker 6s motor..

could you please tell me if youre having thermaling problems?

is the controller getting very hot?

what is the gearing?

runtime?

and which cells are you using?

thanks alot:)

No heat problem what so ever.
26/87 gearing
2000 nicads
runtimes are about 8 - 10 min.

[crono man]

thanks hk-en-:)

[Soya]

Toadily wasted

[Soya]

Sorry, got bored again;)

[k_sw31]

hehe, http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/turb/oogle.gif Up to no good http://smilies.uniquehardware.co.uk/contrib/dvv/esmil2.gif http://216.40.241.68/cwm/big/eek3.gif

[Soya]

NICE! What's that website?

[k_sw31]

http://www.mysmilies.com/?cat=huge

[Soya]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....
http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/chapel/bigfrogs/bigredfrog.gif

[Soya]

Sweet, it works!
FIRE!
http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/ruinkai/FIREdevil.gif

[k_sw31]

good for you... theres also www.plauder-smilies.com

[k_sw31]

Dang, I'm sending my controller back to fine design, where they'll pass it along to germany. Guess i won't be getting it back for a month or so. Well, at least that. :mad:

Chris said basically, the extra weight of the 12 cells in a paralell setup over heated the esc, damaging it. All i can hope is omehow it will look like its the manufacture's fault, so it will get replaced for free.

[krisI.925]

I ordered my set up yesterday.

-4200 motor
-7018 ESC with the program stuff

im going to be running 12 cells but in series but ill have my truck really geared down. Probably be running a 8,9,10 pinion. Its got a gear ratio of 34:1 with 19T pinions so u do the math.

[k_sw31]

Well, be carfull running 12 cells is my advice.

You might wanna consult a dealer before you try it. Have fun.

[krisI.925]

ya i talked to Donnie about it at rum runner hobbies he said that hes seen plenty of people run 12 cells with no problems but he wouldnt recomend it and he cant warranty it. If things start to get hot ill drop a few cells.

[k_sw31]

Cool, :cool: then again your running a motor that pulls 10 less amps, so you should be fine.

[k_sw31]

WOW!! :eek: :eek:

Just ran my orion chrome modified with the same gearing/tires. Its so weak! It had enuf torque to wheelie, but the rpm topped out in about a few seconds. Only went about 15 mph. :eek: So slow!! Dang.

[krisI.925]

i have been also talking to KrauterButter and he told me that his e-maxx ran great with 12 cells in series. ESC didnt get that hot and the motor stayed cool to.

[krisI.925]

what kind of batteries are u guys using. I wanna race so i figured i get some of those ballistic battery 2400s. Do you think those would work fairly well.

[rawbert]

Get the GP 3300 matched pack, they're only $45 at promatchracing.com. You need to assemble them though

[B!!!]

... he wouldnt recomend it and he cant warranty it.

The 7018 is supposed to be able to handle 18 cells? Why wouldn't he warrantee 12?

[k_sw31]

About batteries, I get around 7 minutes of run time with 1500. But look at www.promatchracing.com they have 3300 stick packs for 35 bux :eek: I heard they're really great matchers too.

[Soya]

I wouldn't suggest those batts. Integy's 2400's put out 415-420 seconds of run time and 1.17-1.18 volts per cell. Those 3300's put out 385 seconds of run time and 1.13 volts per cell. And the 3300's are 10 bucks more.

[Ian_s]

Integy's cells are matched at 20 amps whereas promatch and almost every other matcher uses 30 amps, thats why the integy cells look better when compared to other matchers.

[Soya]

Is matching at 20 amps better?

[gixxer]

I'd rather see numbers matched at 30amp draw. This give you numbers at a much higher load. And with brushless it probably discharged over 30amps with low gearing.

example
"Integy's 2400's your talking about probably put out 300sec of runtime on 30 amp discharge" In another words the 3300 are superior.

[Buff]

There are MANY MANY theories as to which matching method is the best....some smaller matchers will tell you that 20 amp matching is better....however, larger matchers such as Reedy, Trinity, Orion all match at 27-30. These are some of the best packs and the stickers on these matched packs seem to be much more realistic and not misleading.....also known as "true" numbers. Go to a big race where some factory drivers are, and see what the numbers on their packs are.....you just might see 1.17's and 1.18's.....or even higher. However, you're NOT going to see any of the same packs bought at your local hobby shop. Anybody that tells you that their packs are 1.17's or higher, is actually not true. It's because when packs are matched at 20 amps, the numbers show higher....it's hard to explain..but trust me. Stick with a larger brand name like Reedy. These will have numbers that are lower than packs matched at 20 amps, but you will actually have more power and runtime with brand name packs. Your packs will last longer, and have more power and the labels will be more accurate.

[gixxer]

I just want to leave a note that after 6 runs your non matched cells become matched.

[krisI.925]

Originally posted by gixxer
I just want to leave a note that after 6 runs your non matched cells become matched.

really? Is that true. Either way im not buying the packs because there matched or their dicharge time. I want batteries that will last an entire race and are CHEAP. Im running 2 packs at a time and if i need 3 pairs of batts then thats quit a large amount of money. Thats why i was looking at the BB 2400s. $65 for 2 of them.

[k_sw31]

hell, if you want a couple of pack for cheap, just get a couple of thesehttp://www.promatchracing.com/images/GP3300ST.JPG (http://)

Theyre at http://www.promatchracing.com/miscbatts.htm

I mean, pay 5 bucks more and you get a lot more.

[k_sw31]

Hope this thread isn't dieing http://www.plauder-smilies.de/rough/behead.gif

[B!!!]

Originally posted by krisI.925
ya i talked to Donnie about it at rum runner hobbies he said that hes seen plenty of people run 12 cells with no problems but he wouldnt recomend it and he cant warranty it. If things start to get hot ill drop a few cells.

krisI.925, I asked this question earlier but you never answered it. The 7018 is supposed to be able to handle up to 18 cells, so why wouldn't Rum Runner Hobbies warranty it?

[k_sw31]

I think you can only use 18 cells when the water cooling is in use.

[B!!!]

Ooooh... didn't think of that. Still, I'd love to see it go!

I had basically the same setup (5300 motor and 7018 controller) and put it in my HPI electric truck. Terrible cogging and overheating, until I put the RX pack in. But by then, it was too late and the solder was so weak that the chips fell off the controller after a rollover on the street.:( I had only 6 cells.

What truck are you putting it in?

[k_sw31]

I'm putting that setup in my t3. But kris is useing it in his txt-1. I think

[B!!!]

Well, good luck to you then. I hope it works out well for you.

B

[k_sw31]

Well, actually, i've already ran the setup in my t3, but, i don't think it ever ran right, plus, once when i ran 12 cells in paralell, the controller fried, so its being sent back right now :mad:

[fReShJiVe]

Lehner 5300 w/ schulze 58ce

[k_sw31]

AWESOME! :eek:

[B!!!]

Originally posted by k_sw31
...i ran 12 cells in paralell, the controller fried, so its being sent back right now :mad:

What was it doing when it wasn't running right? Rum Runner is going to warrantee it?????

[k_sw31]

well, i bought from fine design, they said they'll decide when it gets there, but the guy on the phone said they will probably have to send it back to germany for repair, so i won't get it back for a while.

What was happening, is the motor would only go to about 5000 rpms, have absolutley no torque, and the battery would get extremely hot, freshly peaked, and die in ten seconds, plus some of the heatshrink melted off, and, it smelled like burning.

[B!!!]

Oops, sorry. I'm getting you guys mixed up.

Mine was similar, though I'm not sure of the rpms. Once it got going, it really went though. When I put the RX battery pack on, all my cogging disappeared. Rum Runner/BK won't warrantee it.:mad:

So now I have this 5300 motor and no controller, and I'm not sure what to do with it. I'm considering putting it in an E-Maxx, which would be better able to handle it's power than my current truck. I'd sure like to power it with 12 cells, but after my problems, and now hearing about your problems, I'm not sure I want to risk it. Nitro sounds like a safer bet.

[k_sw31]

It sucks cause i don't have any working regular motors, so i'm grounded right now. :mad: But, I'm building a track in my yard right now, so hopefully it will be ready close to when my controller gets here.

[Soya]

It takes you 7 weeks to build a track?

[k_sw31]

Um ,well, taking into account homework plus school plus jam packed weekends plus we need a tractor to plow up the field, probably yes.

[enemy_spike]

not all of us people in the hobby are adults you know. kids probably make up half if not more and hopefully we all have school

[B!!!]

That's so cool! If I started digging up my back yard to build a track, my neighbors would hang me from a tree!

[Soya]

Originally posted by enemy_spike
not all of us people in the hobby are adults, you know.
Duh. I was thinking in the realm of about 85% kids:rolleyes:

[krisI.925]

define kid? Im about 17 days from being 17.

I just got a e-mail back from rum runner and he said that he just had enough stuff to fill his current orders. But will be expecting a new shipment from Germany by the end of the week. So i should have it by some time next week. Which gives me some more time to build my snow plow.

[ElectricThunder]

Cool, i wish i could order a brushless system, but my dad says i have to get a full use outta my p-94 first for a year!!!!! But i can't run it cause my ESC fried. The ironic thing is that i have my whole Brushless setup prepared. GRRRRR..... O, by the way, i'm a kid and i'm in RC, i'm only 13. And i do go to school, as a matter of fact i go to private school (whoopy! not!) and i make straight A's too. Anyways, good luck with your brushless motor system KRIS I. 925, and have fun with your snow plow.

[Soya]

I'm exactly 1 week from 17:D

[ElectricThunder]

That's not fair!!! Just kidding. I'm exactly 4 years from 17!!!! (sniff sniff)

[Soya]

Happy Birthday!

[k_sw31]

Hay! I'm 13 too.That's so cool! If I started digging up my back yard to build a track, my neighbors would hang me from a tree!

Ya, we live out in the county, have 7 acres so i guess i'm sorta lucky.

[ElectricThunder]

Cool, unfortunately i live in the "city". well, it's kinda rural, anyways, cool, another 13 year old. Thankyou, anyways, have fun with the track. i don't race my "vehicles" (so technical LOL) so i guess a track wouldn't suit me. I prefer to bash!!!!!!!hehehe NO LIMITS

[RCmaniac324]

hey, i'm 14.

ne way, i am interested in a lehner 5300/ warrior 7018 setup. have ne of u tried it in, oh, i'd say a 5-6 pound ST/MT? if so, how did it work (fast[if so, about how fast?], powerful, ok, great, etc.)? did you need a reciever pack to get rid of ne annoying cogging, or did it work ok w/o stuttering too much? i am highly interested in this system for multiple reasons (insane-nitro-kicking speed[:D :p :cool: ], massive torque[for an electric when compared to brushed setups:D ], ease of maintennance[next to none. again :D ], and ease of use [because i have just seen how temperamental nitro engines can b today at my friend's]), and as such, would like info b4 i buy. but then again, im tortured by being so close, yet so far ($45 to b exact, with almost no income) :( :mad: oh well, it'll b worth the wait. :D

[ElBaboon]

holas! (im not spanish)
I was wondering if a lehner 4200 and a warrior4018/7018 combo would work with a STOCK RS4 Sport2. I may add a slipper to protect ransmission, but im wondering how else i should set up my car to accomodate the motor.

[B!!!]

RCmaniac324, I read that you get longer run times with the 4200, but I think (and correct me if I'm wrong anyone) that the 5300 will put out more RPMs - or is it more torque? Though from what I have seen, the 4200 puts out quite enough power to be worth the extra run time.

ElBaboon, just be sure to tighten up your belts and definitely get that slipper clutch! It'd probably be worth it to get the 7018 over the 4018. Only $15 more.

I have the 5300 motor and the 7018, but fried my controller (I will get another someday) before I really had much chance to test it. Cogged like crazy until I added the RX battery pack. And be sure to get a heat sink! BTW, I have a RS4 MT.

Hopes this helps.

[k_sw31]

The 4200 motor yield 4200 rpms per volt, and the 5300 yield 5300 rpms per volt, really strait forward, however, i believe the 4200 will yield you a slight amount of torque over the 5300, and it will yield more runtime, as the 5300 yields 65 amps, and the 4200 yield 55 amps.

I did it! i used the word yield in a paragraph 6 times! Now if i only had a bet going :rolleyes: ;)

[k_sw31]

Originally posted by ElectricThunder
Cool, i wish i could order a brushless system, but my dad says i have to get a full use outta my p-94 first for a year!!!!! But i can't run it cause my ESC fried. The ironic thing is that i have my whole Brushless setup prepared. GRRRRR..... O, by the way, i'm a kid and i'm in RC, i'm only 13. And i do go to school, as a matter of fact i go to private school (whoopy! not!) and i make straight A's too. Anyways, good luck with your brushless motor system KRIS I. 925, and have fun with your snow plow.

Hay, I will run your p-94 for u ;)

[ElectricThunder]

LOL!!!!! So would i, but as i said before, puddles + ESC= Fried ESC. Gotta love Florida. (add much sarcasm) O, now i know what i want for christmas.......water-proofing stuff!!!!! LOL

[Soya]

Originally posted by ElectricThunder
O, now i know what i want for christmas.......water-proofing stuff!!!!! LOL
I bought a tube of Goop Marine for $4.79:)

[ElectricThunder]

Hey, where'd you get it from, please tell me. I beg you!!!!