Brushless Motor Forum v1.0

[crono man]

well i think it was about time:) dont you?

lets get it on:D

[k_sw31]

i e-mailed fine design rc. They said theyre gettin a new bl controller for 110 bux, i think i'll take that. I heard the orions shipped to, my t3 is so excited. :D

[Soya]

I thought you bought an Astroflight controller?

[k_sw31]

yeah well it turns out it isn't for brushless, don't ask. The guys at fine design said with that setup they got a 9 min run at an average of 35 mph.

[SandManRacing]

Hi, I'm looking for a brushless system for my RC10T3. The Hacker C40-S seems to be one of the best available right now. But I don't know which controler is the best. Schulze seems to be very popular. Anyone ever tried the Jeti ?

I waited for the Novak or Team-Orion system for long enough. I wounder if Novak plans to release it this year. The Vortex looks promising, but is not available yet and the first ones will have ferrite magnets (not neodyne). I heard that ferrite is WAY LESS POWERFULL.

The only thing I like about the Vortex is the projected price. It's about half the price of a Hacker/Schulze system.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Alain

[k_sw31]

what sight were u lookin at? I haven't found a good sight for aveox systems, i heard theyre rc7 is good though.

[SandManRacing]

Sorry, it wasn't Avox I wanted to say but Vortex. This is my mistake.


On another thread someone says that we can order a Team-Orion brushless motor from many places right now :

"Customers can buy an Orion brushless motor from any local hobby shop, mail order or internet site." by Rick Hohwart

I couldn't find any places myself. At Tower Hobbies the motors are expected for late August and the controlers are no longer listed. What does it mean ?

Thanks,

Alain

[crono man]

for sure the orion will be less powerfull because of the ferrite magnets(thats why it costs way less) and i think that the novak will be ferrite based(to keep costs down as well).

for the moment i think the safest option is the aveox rc7 its stong and the sensored based system is for the moment more reliable than sensorless(in my opinion)

but if you really want to go with sensorless motors than a schulze/hacker combo is unbeatable:)

[k_sw31]

are the neo magnets race legal though?

[crono man]

hey sandmanracing where are you located in quebec,im near quebec city?:)

[crono man]

well neo magnets are not legal just like cobalts but i think it does not matter because BL motor even the ferrites ones are still not ROAR or IFMAR approved.

[SandManRacing]

Thanks Crono Man :)

Is there so much problems with sensorless systems or it is just some minor glitches.

I know that sensor based systems are supposed to offer more torque and a better control. But is there a big difference ?

Thanks,

Alain

[SandManRacing]

Hi Crono Man, I'm located at Trois-Rivières. Don't know if you know the place. It's half way to Montreal. By the way, I use to talk French normally, but the French forums are very rare. So I practice my English here ;)

Bye,

Alain

[crono man]

yea went to visit the old part of trois-riviere last year beautifull place:) if you want to talk french no problem

btw heres a link a think you like;
http://pub13.ezboard.com/fmaxximumtraxxasfrm65.showMessage?topicID=1501.top ic

as for the bugs found in sensorless system i think they are minor but sometime there major like the car going into full reverse at full speed!

[SandManRacing]

Thank you for the link ! Very interresting.

Bye,

Alain

[gixxer]

Aren't most systems brakeless? I think the novak and orion have brakes? When are they releasing? I've been waiting since January and really looking foward into seeing nitro performance coming from an electric vehicle.

[k_sw31]

all systems intended for cars have brakes i'm pretty sure. WHat would be the thing to do is buy the aveox rc7 system, it has neo magnets, plus they've been in the buisness for quite a while, plus theyre just 20 bux more.

try http://www.aveox.com/hobby.htm


What i'm gonna do is get some sorta of brushless system, and use that in my t3 which i just bought a two-speed for.

[crono man]

i understand that sensorless systems must find the neutral point before they arm..but why do some systems start in reverse?

[gixxer]

Are they pretty fast? 25,000 rpms seems low. How fast is the rc7 with L160rc controller? How does it compare with a current set-up with mod brush motor and cyclone esc. I love the performance but had getting the com cut and brush replaced.:mad:

[crono man]

a guy here called frankW can help you out his got the aveox setup you are talking about..

are bl fast? you bet the thing is that they have the same rpm as a brushed motor(except maybe for a hacker b50 4s wich has a rpm of about 70000rpm:D ) but they have double the torque so its the insane gear ratio you can put in your car that makes them so evil:)

[k_sw31]

if it has 25000 rpm, that may not be such a bad thing. You can just gear the motor to how fast you would like it to go, and the low rpm would make for long runtime.

[WheelNut]

I'm getting a Avoex RC-7! :D When? should be within the month, but i have to sell my 4x4 pede first....My T3 should be happy :)

[Soya]

This is so predictable. After I spend my ENTIRE summer savings on a Hacker, Everybody now says that Aveox is better and Sensored are better. GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :( :mad: :(

[SandManRacing]

Sensored offers better control I think, but sensorless offers better performance (higher RPM).

I'm looking for a Hacker/Schulze combo right now.

Tell me if you want to sell your kit :)

Bye,

Alain

[crono man]

soya i highly doubt that you will regret your hacker motor there the strongest bl that i now of..

btw what type of car are you gonna put it in?

[Soya]

I'm puttin' it in my E-maxx, RS4 Rally, and my Bolink Pro Stock (maybe even my friend's Stampede).

[crono man]

which hacker motor and esc are you gettin?how many cells youre going use?

[Soya]

Jeez, that was quick. I bought the Hacker B50 S8 and the Hacker Master 70. E-maxx-12 cells;Rally-6 cells;Bolink-as many as possible:D :D :D

[crono man]

you better tell nasa to check for a flying bolink:D

[Soya]

Haha. I'm thinking of a really tall ratio, like 35/60.

[k_sw31]

in my t3, i'll have a 32/72 (if it'll fit)

[k_sw31]

hey, just curious, but anyone know what the life span of a brushless motor is? ...oh yeah, the motor i'm looking at has about 29000 rpms on 6 cells, do you think that would yeild 5 min of runtime w/ 1500's, what about my old 3000's? (bought em' like first year they came out, really old and beat up, but still run 30%-40% longer than brand new 1500's)


Will the hacker master 40 work in cars?

[alpinesky1]

hey guys, my Aveox system came, but im not done building my T3 and im waiting for my new charger and ballistic batteries too come hopefully by next weekend i'll be up and running... The people i've been talking too that have the Aveox System say when its geared 15/87 it will beat a Rc10gt in any type of race, flat out smoke them when u put a 7 cell pack in, but youd have to be a pro cus all it will do is pull lonnnnnng wheelies, also one guy said he was gettin twice the run time, something like 10-12 mins on a t3 and only 6 mins on a 9 turn motor and he said the aveox was way faster......

btw a brushless motor will last around 10 years untill you need to replace the bearings:rolleyes: the your set for 10 more years:D

i dont think i'll miss changeing brushes and cutting comms....;)

[k_sw31]

ok, i've been emailing various dealers, and they all say to use the hacker master 70 for cars. I wanna buy the hacker master 40 (to save money). The only differance is the master 40 is rated at 40 amps, the 70 is rated at 70 amps.


Does any one make 8 cell battery packs, or would i have to build my own?

[SandManRacing]

The only thing I don't like about the Hacker Master 70 controler is that is doesn't have any heatsink. Does someone know if the Master is any good ? What about the control and the reliability ? Will it broke if I don't add a heatsink to the controler... does it heat a lot ? This controler is normally used in airplane and boats I think.

Bye,

Alain

[SandManRacing]

Does anyone ever tried a Master controler ?

[WheelNut]

Ok, never mind last night I deliberated hard over if I should get a BL motor system or not. The conclusion was not to get the system. So theres a change in plans. I figure I can get a good used ESC, 2 new machine wound motors, a used XR-2, a spare armature, a bunch of brushes.And "Heck" I could probably even buy a cheap used comm lathe if I didnt get the radio, and mabye some stuff for the same price as a 1 motor and speed control!

So basically brushes are way cheaper, and I'm going to get fairly low turn motors, so I will still be fast....

[k_sw31]

but, lower the wind, more maitenence on comm and brushes.

[crono man]

of course it is still cheaper for the basher and the week end racer to buy brushed motor no doubt about that ...but

1.for a serious racer sorry but brushed ARE more expensive in the long run(look at a new trinity handwound motors when they come out at tower there like 80$ vs orion bl 86$)

orion setup;
esc=206
motor=86
total=292

novak gt7
esc=150
motor=78(monster wire or matt francis edition)
total=228

68bucks difference(thats nothing consedering will never need another arm,brush,comm drop EVER again)


2.people have to understand that power difference and efficeiency is huge between the two types.so of course there going to cost more(would you sell a ferrari and a honda at the same price?)

3.bl will be more suited for people that are fed up with comm lathes and all that junk and people wanting longer runtimes and power.

plus on some bl esc you have dual settings(stock and modified just like a novak dually)so will only need one bl motor to run in both class.

4.it is true the most expensive model out there hacker/schulze are not cheap(400$ i think) but think about the power they put out...a well speced hacker touring car can blow a .15 gas car!

[Promod]

I have nine different brushless combos. I have used the Hackermaster 77 and 99. These controllers are not that great. They don't have brakes so they are hard to drive. The aveox RC7/160 is a good combo for lighter stadium trucks and touring cars. The start up is very smooth on the aveox setup. The Hacker/shulze combo is awesume. I have gotten my E-maxx to run 68 mph with 24 cells using a Hacker 12s and Schulze 102co controller.
I have never had problems with brushless motors. But I have burned up a few brushless speed controllers.
Thank you,
Promod

[k_sw31]

Promod- have you heard anything about lehner setups?

Cronoman- I totally agree w/ you, besides i was gonna spend 160 on a lathe, but now i'm just gonna spend 40 bux more and get a brushless setup.

Keep in mind that most brushless setups will be able to blow off most 300 dollar racing engines.

[Promod]

Yes, I have heard that the Lehner motors are better than the Hacker. The can screws on instead of glued on as with the Hacker. The Lehner are said to be faster. There speed controllers are also said to be good. I have a Lehner motor on order but its coming from Germany. I've been waiting for over a month on it. I hope it is faster because I would like to break 70 with my E-Maxx.
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

promod which leihner motor would you recommend for car use that has a 540size can?

[Promod]

I'm not real familiar will all the Lehner motors. The motor I'm getting is the #1930 series with 6 turns. This motor is longer than a 540 can and has a 4mm pinion shaft. The Lehner #4200 series is for cars and has the standard 1/8th pinion shaft. The number of turns will depend on the number of cells and vehicle weight.
Thank you,
Promod

[k_sw31]

the car specific setup for lehner motors is the lehner warrior 1840 with BEC 6-18cells and a #4200 motor.


Promod- does lehner have their own website? Do the lehners have neo magnets?

[Promod]

Lehner has a web site but it is in german. there is a good Lehner site www.BK-electronics.com/modellbau/en/ this site has a ton of Lehner info. Yes the Lehners have Neo magnets. I have heard that the orion and novak brushless motors don't have Neo mags. That is how they are keeping the price down. This will be a huge power disadvantage.
Thank you,
Promod

[Soya]

The Master's don't have brakes?!?!? #$(*:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Popop]

LEHNER = Extra value !

Wheelnut, you should have a try along with a Neodym modified 05 can. You'll have a first big jump in efficiency ... About 50-60% of the way from a classic 05mod to a well tuned B/L system ...
-> Electronicmodel and Fastelectrics offer such marvelous cans ...

Note all worldwide available B/Ls are still listed among http://rcsaga.com links


Bye all
:)

[Promod]

Soya, The Hacker Masters have two modes. One is with brakes and the other is not. But the brakes are not proportionate. So they are either all on or off. The controller also heats up very quickly in the "break" mode. The Schulze future 18.61 it not that much more money then the hacker master 77 and is well worth the extra money.
Thank you,
Promod

[Soya]

I knew there was a catch in why it was so cheap. Man, NOTHING ever goes right for me:(

[crono man]

im kinda confused on how lehner numbers works...i went to their website and did not find the 4200 series motors:confused:

[Soya]

HAHAHAHAHA!!! GOT MY BL TODAY!!!!!!
1 thing though. The motor doesn't have a flat on the shaft for the set screw. I can easily make one, but I was wondering why they didn't.

[crono man]

hey popop do you know if the lehner 4200 motors have a flat spot on the shaft for pinion use?

thanks:)

[Soya]

Also, which wires connect to which? All the wires on the motor are black.

[Promod]

Most of the BL motors I have do not have the flat on the shaft. The only motor I have with the flat spot is a Hacker b406s. I don't know if the Lehner #4200 has the flat spot.
It dosen't matter how you connect the motor wires. But if the motor runs the wrong way (vehicle gos backwards) you must switch the two outside wires.
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

do you think it would be a good idea to change the diff gear in my xxx buggy for a aluminum one if i put a bl motor?

[Soya]

OK, cool. I might have it running by Monday! I have to buy some connectors at the local hardware store. Is this a big enough heatsink?:D

[Promod]

crono man, the only experience I have with some thing like that is my T3. When I started running 10 cells the power of the BL would force the diff balls out through the teeth of the diff gear. I had to drill the diff gear out for 1/8 balls and machine the trans case where the bearing rides. That problem was solved. When I started running 14 cells the idler gear would strip on every run. This forced me to stay with 12 cells.
If you are going to run 6 or 8 cells you should be fine. But making things stronger can't hurt.
Soya that heatsink should keep things cool!
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

thanks promod been very helpful:)

[crono man]

promod,i want to put a BL in my losi xxx my question is as follows..

im limited by 6 cells is it better to get a low turn or high turn bl motor to take the most advantage out of my 6cell pack?(im thinking of getting a lehner 4200 motor)

thanks again:)

[Promod]

You will want a low turn motor. A low turn motor turns more rpms per volt. When you are only using six cells you need a fast turning motor. I'm not very familiar with the Lehner motors yet. But a motor that equals the Hacker B506s should work great.
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

cool just have one more question:D

why do some people say that there BL starts in reverse unsuspectingly?is it because of the sensorless technology?do all sensorless esc do that?

thanks again:)

[Promod]

The reverse on BL controllers is slow/weird. On my Schulze 58ce speed controller you would have to hold the radio in the reverse position for about 4 seconds before the reverse would ingage. Than when you would go forward in would take a few seconds to move. The only real problem I had with the reverse controller is I would hold the brake on to long after after a straight stretch and it would jump in reverse. On the new Schulze future series speed controllers you can disable reverse.
If it is a sensorless problem I really don't know. The sensor systems do start out very smooth compared to sensorless. But the power is less with the sensor controllers. Sensorless is considered new/better technology than sensor.
I hope I've been helpful to everyone.
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

ok but can this occur(going into reverse unsuspectingly) with brushless speedcontrol that have only foward and brake?

[Promod]

I have never had that happen or even heard of any one with that problem.
Thank you,
Promod

[WhoKnowsWho]

Why do I have a feeling Team Orion brushless will be out before Novak?

If I were to go the Team Orion or Novak route, would I really be losing that much compared to one of the other Fine Design setups? Or would the savings be worth it?

I'm not looking for blistering speed runs, I just want the convenience of no brushes, no springs, no worry.

And just to confirm, the speed controller is going to probably be expensive no matter what because of the requirements to control the motor? I've become so used to seeing $45 ESCs lately. Guess I will switch that one controller around, and buy a couple of motors...

[Popop]

Hi Crono
Concerning the common 5mm shafts ... they actually are quite always w/o any flat ... due to the Airplane or Boat serious couplings which are of the clamping cone type ...

Be sure to work straight to do such ... My pletts also required some good quality tool and to keep the inside out of any steel dust -> some adhesive around the all works well ...

Shaft steel quality really depends on the manufacturer, mabuchi ones (spd700) are easy to work, pletts very hard, and electronicmodel 6mm (my B/L) very easy (no treatment)

Note I actually use a low Kv B/L : 2000 rpm/v but find it cool 'cause I can use it directly on airplanes along with 6-7cells as for on insane cars with 10-12 cells ...
More cells means more instant power ... due to the fact a given cell cat. has an Amp limitation ...
Now I admit that on a given B/L can type, instant power is also limited !

:) I really be pleased to host on rcsaga.com B/L page your setups along with an image of the car and some data like :
batt/motor/esc/ratio etc.
Could be very useful as for the Plettenberg Page (http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/Anwendungen/Heli.htm) concerning the Heli setups that work !:)

[Soya]

I just finished the airscoop for the ESC last night. Just a spontaneous idea:)

[k_sw31]

hey, u can buy the lehner 4200 at http://www.finedesignrc.com/cars-trucks.asp

WhoKnowsWho- you probably would be better off going with a lehner setup, besides, thats about 220, the orion setup is 230+

[crono man]

hi popop

would it not be better to take a lower turn(high kv) if limited only to 6cells in order to obtain more rpm and power?do you have any motor suggestions?

thanks:)

[WhoKnowsWho]

I see that the lehner motor is $120, what about the speed control?

I was looking at the orion since the motors are under $100...

[Popop]

Certainly Crono !
Output power = Torque * Rpm so relying only on Torque isn't a good idea on a small can ... 40mm+ dia cans allow stronger torques at good eff. ... so fewer rpms for a given horsepower ...

I really think some 20000rpm seem a low limit for a pleasant power handling along with the size we deal with ...
As previously said, Aveox site seems also to offer valuable data about B/L car setups ... -> Here (http://www.aveox.com/rc7.html)

Best regards

[WhoKnowsWho]

I really would like to wait for an actual review by the magazine. Some comparison between all that is available and soon to be available would be nice.

Or if someone has the money to buy them all, I will be happy to test them and write up a report!

[crono man]

whoknowswho feep checking www.**************** they should have a review of team orion brushless setup:)

[crono man]

what the hell ok chek this site --->****************

[crono man]

wildhobbies is the website

[WhoKnowsWho]

Yeah, I already read it, it doesn't say anything you can't get from looking at pictures. They didn't run it yet. So it was pretty worthless.

[k_sw31]

the orion motor is 90 bux, but thats cuz it has ferrite magnets, the controller is like 200 (i think) the lehner is 120 and has neo magnets plus their warrior esc is bout 110.

[WhoKnowsWho]

Can't find this 120 warrior ESC on the site. Link?

[Soya]

Crap, My ESC isn't working. The reciever isn't getting any power. I'm going to run home and get a reciever pack, and pray that is what is wrong. If not, I'm going to kill somebody:mad:

[SandManRacing]

Which motor would be the best for a RC10T3 ? I'm looking for a Hacker but should I go with a 6S - 7S or 8S ?

Thanks

Alain

[Soya]

PISS!! It still doesn't work, even with the reciever pack! I NEED TO GET THIS P.O.S. WORKING NOW!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[crono man]

sandman-it depends on the number of cells you want to use and by the rpm limit of your esc..

basic rule is the lower the number of cells the lower the number of turns(in order to gain more power and rpm from a low voltage cell pack)personnaly i would go with a hacker 6s for 6cell use:)

[Popop]

Back in business :

My Electronic Model B/L just as prepared today ... Note the tight assembly of the re-drilled pinion gear (6mm shaft) :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rcsaga/Cars/TB01/bl15-1%20405.jpg
D:\Mes documents\FTP\Cars\TB01\

... in the TB01 :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rcsaga/Cars/TB01/mount1%20640.jpg

Now I'm quite scared concerning the spur gear wear ... Tomorrow runs let me know ...

[crono man]

wow great pics popop! what are the specs of that BL little beauty?

[SandManRacing]

Thanks Crono Man,

I want to use 6 cells so I will go with a 6S.
I don't know the RPM limit of the ESC I want yet. (will surely be over 50 000)

Thanks for your help.

[SandManRacing]

Does a low winding motor (6S) has less torque than a high winding (10S). Will a 6S produce more heat ? If it has the same torque and efficiency I don't see why people are buying 10S motors... You have to add batteries to get the same power and this add weight to the truck. This would be stupid at first look.

Can someone tell me where I am wrong ?

Thanks !

[Soya]

WOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!
If you couldn't tell, I got my BL working. My friend has the magic touch. It still isn't perfect, because it doesn't have brakes OR reverse. Any help would be appreciated. BTW, here's a pic of the rear center dogbone after 6 sec. of driving. Behold the power of BL:D

[k_sw31]

sand man, any b50 hacker you get will have loads of torque because they are 550 sized. I wouldn't get one meself because they stick way out of the t3, an aveox rc7 or a lehner 4200 would be more suitably matched for a t3, but you'll still have loads of torque because they're still bl motors.


WHoknowswho- the guy at fine design said they'd have it on their website by 8/22.

[SandManRacing]

Thanks K_SW !

I'll buy a C40-6S motor. It is a 540 model.



C40-xxS

Length : 53 mm

Dia : 35.8 mm

Shaft dia. : 3.17 mm

Weight : 155 g



I should fit well in a RC10T3 :)

Bye

[k_sw31]

whoknows- go to http://www.bk-electronics.com/modellbau/en/

and look under the micro 18 series you should see the 1840 w/ bec, i think thats it. :D

[crono man]

can a hacker motor owner please tell me if these motors have a flat spot on the shaft?

[Soya]

JESUS CHRIST, DOESN"T ANYBODY NOTICE THAT I'M HERE?!?!?!?!?! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[WhoKnowsWho]

k_sw31: Now I'm even more confused with more pictures, more ESCs, and too much German! :)

I e-mailed fine design for some more information. It's really hard to choose when some of those less expensive controllers don't have brakes or reverse of any sort.

[crono man]

hey soya did you figure out what was wrong with your esc?

[somedude2187]

Soya glad to hear you got your bl working. I'm gonna buy one sooner or later for a ttr motorcycle (think unbelieveable wheelie power). Since your brakes don't work you should start a project to make real disk brakes like on the 1/5 scales. BTW what car had the dogbone that looks nasty... but cool.

[crono man]

ok let me get this strait..

hacker b50s=550 size can?

hacker b40s=540 size can?

then what the heck is a hacker c40?

and if i understand correctly the longest would be a b50L and the shortest would be a b40S?

getting less stupid everyday:D

[Promod]

The Largest I have is the B50XL it is huge. This motor has a 750 size can. If you look at www.finedesign.com they have brushless motors bigger than a coke can.
Thank you,
Promod

[Promod]

Sorry wrong link, heres the right one www.finedesignrc.com
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

promod,do hacker b40 b50 and b50xl have the same distance mounting holes?

also you said that the hackerb40 6s has a flat on the shaft..by that your saying that only this hacker motor model has a flat spot or all hackers come with a flat spot?

also what do you do if your motor does not have a flat spot on the shaft like lehner?do you grind them?

thanks again really apreciate your help:)

[k_sw31]

sorry whoknowswho, but you wanted a link, anyway, just so you know its sorta hard gettin info by e-mail out a the guy, it usually takes him a few day to respond, and i had to send him about 5 emails to get the right info outta him.

nice job soya, how'd ya snap a dogbone like that? Have ya put it in your bolink yet? How your friend get the bl setup workin?

[Promod]

Yes the Hacker b40s,b50s,b50L, and b50XL all have the same mounting holes.
I have one B40s, three B50s, and two B50LX. The only one with the flat spot on the shaft is the B40. I don't know if you could get the others with the flat spot.
Its really know big deal. You can just grind the spot on. I use a belt sander to do it. I have also just put the pinion on like normal and had no problems. I know some people put them on with lock-tite but they are a bear to get off.
Thank you,
Promod

[Soya]

Does anybody know if my Master 70 is supposed to have brakes?
That dogbone was from the E-maxx. Haven't had time to put it in the Bolink.
Yeah, I guess I'll either return it for something else, or make a brake system in 3 days (I have a deadline:( ), or maybe even use a T-maxx tranny....

[crono man]

just return it man not worth the hassle and get yourself something more car specific if you can.

[Soya]

Yeah, I suppose. Just broke the rear universal, so I'm going to drop the BL in my rally. We'll see how that works:)

[DamianD1]

The standard Hacker Master does not have proportional brakes. It was designed for airplanes or boats. Hacker is supposed to have a new controller designed specifically for cars. It is called Master Car controller but I do nt have any info about it.

[Popop]

This thread goes fast !!!! Time to open a new forum !!!!!
Quite hard to follow evening after evening !
Interesting things to read too !


The completed car along with the Flash40/60A electronicmodel controller and ordinary Rx stuff ...
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rcsaga/Cars/TB01/setup2%20500.jpg

This is the other side : 8x 1250mAh pack soldered in line with a T iron ... The all weights 1403g ...
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rcsaga/Cars/TB01/setup3%20500.jpg

To Cronoman : This B/L was formerly bought for Direct drive on aerobatics Airplanes but was also used on my TGX (directly as a central shaft !) ... Its Kv is not very common for that type of application : It's 2000rpm/v and it's impossible to make turn manually when manipulating the central shaft ... the pinion gear itself is very hard to turn ... So my fears concerning the plastic gear teeth ... (I still have not tested it today ... :( ... already too many things to do)

Bye

[crono man]

wow:eek: popop that car just looks like a rocket ive got a feeling its going to be really fast:D

[k_sw31]

nice ride popop, but even with 8 cells, won't it have about 16000 rpm (i think) what controller r u using?

[crono man]

hey guys have a small question for you..

lets say i get a hacker b40s 6s rated at 7100rpm/v(the pack used is 6cells) and a orion esc which is rated at 55000rpm limit..

now the cells peak at 1.55volts(1.55x6=9.3) which mean 7100x9.3=66030rpm

that exceeds the esc rpm limits of 55000rpm which means i will not be able to use it?

are my calculations accurate?

thanks for any input



:)

[DamianD1]

You are making one mistake. The cell peaks at 1.55, but under load, they will not give you more than 1.2 volts, so you should consider that the pack is 7.2v max for 6 cells, so max RPM would be 51120. But even then, that is max RPM under no load, so when you run the car under real conditions you will get far less than 50000 RPM.

[crono man]

ahhh thank you damianD1 happy to hear that!this means the 55000rpm is more than enough for any type of motors(as long as stay with 6cells).:)

[Promod]

Hi guys I thought you would like to see a few pictures of my E-maxx. I run a brushless motor and 24 cells. This truck has been clocked at 68 mph.
Thank you,
Promod


http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlbum.asp?userid=Promod&album_id=92470

[crono man]

check out this chart it shows the rpm/v,resistance etc of almost all BL motors-->http://www.motocalc.com/data/motor.html
hope it helps:)

[crono man]

that thing f@$#@ nuts it looks like a cross between a 1/8off road car and a e-maxx..

one word promod..WHERE IS THE VIDEO:D

[k_sw31]

heres a setup, hacker b40 4s, at 8400 rpm per volt, 24 cells= 241920 rpm.

[crono man]

hey guys any of you have experience with lehner micro 18 series esc?what do you think of them for car use?

[SandManRacing]

The controler is limited way before 200000 RPM. And on load the motor won't reach this speed. But if it would, the car would fly !!! :)

http://24.202.78.58:85/speed.jpg

Bye

[crono man]

hey sandman where did you get that program?:eek:

[SandManRacing]

It's called Easy-RC.

You can get it at: http://www.easy-rc.com

The software as a lot of features but they don't all work very well. I think their web site is in construction right now. So you won't be able to download it for a while :(

Bye !

[Soya]

I can't find the invoice or the box the ESC came with. To put it bluntly, I'm @%#&'ed:mad:

[k_sw31]

just use the rc calculator at http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/cars/calculator.asp#calc

rc calculatorhttp://rc calculator


any ways, w/ a 5.4 to one FDR it would do about 440

[James Bong]

Well here is my Aveox RC7 w/L360RC controller in my T3..to be short and to the point, - it kicks a$$!! The torque is incredible, I took 3rd last weekend without dialng in the car. On the inside switchbacks, the acceleration is almost "1/8" like.
Try this:
http://bongaloid.netfirms.com/t3bl.jpg

I run an 18/66T and have punch to spare...I'll still lift the front wheels exiting the lead on turn to the straightaway on the dash to the finishline, at the end of a 4 min. heat.
http://bongaloid.netfirms.com/t3bl1.jpg

[k_sw31]

nice, what kind of runtime do you get?

oh yeah, does that esc have reverse, if it does, does it have reverse lock-out?

[brittonlj77]

What is the ruling on these motors where you guys race?

I'm doing to get this setup but fear being ostricized at the track! Even if it is just club racing, it's the only game in town here.

[crono man]

i am thinking of getting a sensorless esc well after checking all the posts on the lehner esc and other one thing still confuses me..which esc does not spudder(right word??) at the start and has a 100000 rpm motor limit?

is there a company outhere that makes such a esc?

thanks for any info guys:)

[Soya]

Yeah, I'm looking for a new ESC also. I like the Aveox, but my motor is sensorless:(

[crono man]

soya im not sure but i think a sensored esc may work with a sensorless motor or is it the other way around..not sure:confused:
anyway man call the place where you got it from maybe they will take your esc back or exchanged against a more car specific one youve got nothing to loose:)

[SandManRacing]

A sensorless controler can work with a sensored motor... not the opposite.

Bye

[brittonlj77]

Does your club let you guys race with those motors?

I am jonesing for one big time, but I don't want to invest in something that won't let me race with it too.

[crono man]

well these motors are not roar or ifmar legal yet,,but some clubs dont mind(ie my club:D )

[Soya]

.

[Soya]

Yeah, I'm going to call them today and see if I can exchange mine for a Shultze.

[Soya]

K, I just sent it in the mail. I'm going to exchange it for a Shulze 18/61. Can't wait:D

[crono man]

ok guys really need your on this one..i just saw a lehner speed control 1870 warrior model for 121$ what do you guys think of this speed control?does it have smooth acceleration(no cogging)?

thanks for any input:D

[Promod]

From what I have read from people who have run the warrior is they have a cogging problem. Lehner says that it is a safety feature. The people said if you floored it slowly it was not as bad.
I will not be buying one until this problem is solved. Note this is second hand info, so take it for what it is.
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

thanks promod. have you heard of a updated version that lehner is working on for this model.

[Promod]

I have not heard of an upgraded version of the Lehner.

Here is any other picture of my E-maxx.
Thank you,
Promod

[somedude2187]

Crono man where did you find this esc I've been looking for lehner motors and speed controls with no result. (except for at finedesignrc)

[crono man]

well it is finedesignrc actually:)

[crono man]

promod man,WHERES THE VIDEO:D i want to see that thing rollin;)

[Promod]

crono man, I have a good video of the truck "tearing" up the drive way. As soon as figure out how to post it I will.
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

if you where to pick the most reliable sensorless controller for your car right now which brand model would it be?

1.by reliable i mean ZERO cogging(will have to be as smooth as brushed esc at startups)

2.has to be sensorless(no aveox)

3.has to be on the market(no orion)

4.there is no limits on price$(but if you have suggestion for a controller costing less and still being acceptable than no problem:)

talk among yourself:D

[SandManRacing]

Does this cogging effect appears only during the first start (seconds after plugging the ESC to the battery) or is it present at every start (brake and restart).

Thanks

[SPEEDseekR]

what is so great about brushless motors
and are they faster

[SandManRacing]

SPEEDseekR

What is so great about brushless is they are virtually "unwearable" (except for bearings) and they are way more efficient. For the rest.. why don't you read the other posts ?

Bye

[coke]

All,

What is the maintence on these? Are they anything like my 9 turn double? I'm looking for less maintence but still having power so I'm considering one of these.

[Promod]

Here is a link to two videos of my BL MAXX. To play the video you need to click on the option "down load video to PC in the original format". You will understand when you get there. I hope this works because this is the first time I tried to post a Video.
The first video is blasting up my drive way. The other video is a short pass accross my yard. The rooster tail is grass the truck is ripping out of the yard!!!
I will post Better videos soon I'm still learning how to use my digital camera.
Thank you,
Promod



http://www.imagestation.com/mypictures/inbox/

[somedude2187]

OH!!The guy at finedesign updated the site lol. :)

[crono man]

promod the link does not less go into your inbox:(

coke-there is no maintenance on these motors(theres no brushes or comms:) )
a good brushless motor has almost twice the torque as a brushed motor but is even more efficient(longer runtime)
there available from 4turn to a 27turns.
these motors are so powerful you can gear them extremely high!

Sandmanracing-thats a very good question maybe promod or popop can answer that!
This why i asked the question above in order to make comprehensive list of speed controllers that actually work like a normal brushed esc with no cogging!

so please this goes out to everybody that has experience with any brand of bl controler to tell us the best ones for car use:)

thanks

[WhoKnowsWho]

Hey Promod, the link doesn't work man! It gives me a page to sign in and create my own account!

A search for BL Maxx did bring up a brushless maxx, but no videos.

And a member search of Promod brought up a member with no pictures or anything.

I'm going to probably order the Lehner motor and Warrior speed control to get my feet wet in Brushless on Monday. Inexpensive and brushless, how much more could I ask for?!

[coke]

Hello everybody

Thanks for the reply cronoman.

I am going to get:

RC7 motor
L160RC controller

I am wondering if it would fit into my Losi Off-Road without any modifications to the truck?

One more question --

How do you set the wires up from the ESC/MOTOR. Do you plug the three motor wires directly into the three ESC wires. Then is there wires on the ESC for the battery pack to plug in? How would I plug the back in. I don't think the ESC would have the standard Tamiya connectors, right?

Thank you all

Rob

[Promod]

I'm very sorry for the mix up. I very new to posting stuff so bear with me.
This link should work now. There are two movies there. When you get there you will click on the move and select "or, to download the video to you pc in its orginal format" at least that's the only way I can get it to play.
Please let me know if it works now.
Thank you,
Promod


http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291482041&congratulation_page=Y

[coke]

Prodmon

It works! Wow, that was very fast. I liked the wheelie! :) Which motor/esc is it? I'm looking into the RC7 motor and L160RC controller . If you have these, I asked some questions above

rob

[crono man]

coke thats a very good choice taking the aveox its BL but its sensored so you will have very smooth acceleration.

it will fit any off-road buggy some guys are using them in t3 theres actually a pic of the same exact setup in a t3 a few pages back!(please keep me posted on the results as i have the same buggy and looking right now for a bl setup):)

i dont know how to plug the esc..but you can download the manual at aveox website.

[coke]

Actually it's the Losi truck, not buggy. Would it still fit the truck?

Right now its that $180 Losi one, it's kind of cheap. I don't know if the drive chain can handle a brushless motor.

I will keep you informed.

[crono man]

that think looks really evil promod:D thanks for the videos:)(btw how many cells are you using?)

[crono man]

coke one advise i can give you is to use the hammad ghumman diff nut to beef up your diff.

[Promod]

Coke, The rc7 L160 is a great combo for lower cell counts If you are running 6 or 8 cells it will work great. But don't try this set up with a large number of cells. It will fit fine in you losi because the rc7 is a 540 can motor. Your drive train should be fine with 6 to 8 cells. The L160 RC7 controller doesn't have connectors like a Schulze controller. You have to wire it (solder)direct. The only thing to worry about is if the motor runs backwards (car goes backwards) you have to swap the two out side wires.
crono man, that was with 24 cells in series. The motor was a Hacker 5XL with a Schulze 102co.
I'm glad the link worked and you guys liked the videos.
Thank you,
Promod

[coke]

Ok.

Maybe I can get a higher model that comes with CVDs, etc. Any ideas? Prefreably a Losi that's $260 or under.

[James Bong]

coke, Regarding the motor to ESC connections.. the 3 large wires supply the 3 phase AC to the motor. The 5 smaller ones are to hall effect sensors inside the endbell to provide rotor orientation info to the ESC.

A suggestion is to get the L360RC controller instead of the L160RC, the 360 has additional FET's to provide increased current capacity..while driving and while braking. The L160RC will work though. This info was passed on to me from a very experienced Aveox dealer.

If the car uses a regular "can" style motor, the RC7 will bolt up. The shaft is of a larger diameter which is turned down to 1/8". You will want to file a flat on the shaft though..I mean with all that torque and all..

The initial up-front cost is offset by no more motor sprays, comm drops, brushes, comm cutting and so forth. I have not regretted my purchase..just don't get hit in the rearend by a 1/8 buggy barrelling down the straight..(ask me how I know)

[coke]

Originally posted by Promod
Coke, The rc7 L160 is a great combo for lower cell counts If you are running 6 or 8 cells it will work great. But don't try this set up with a large number of cells. It will fit fine in you losi because the rc7 is a 540 can motor. Your drive train should be fine with 6 to 8 cells. The L160 RC7 controller doesn't have connectors like a Schulze controller. You have to wire it (solder)direct. The only thing to worry about is if the motor runs backwards (car goes backwards) you have to swap the two out side wires.
crono man, that was with 24 cells in series. The motor was a Hacker 5XL with a Schulze 102co.
I'm glad the link worked and you guys liked the videos.
Thank you,
Promod

Thank you, some questions to clarify:

- So I have to solder the motor wires to the esc wires. No problem.

- To connect my 6 cell 3000mAh pack with Tamiya connector, how should I do this? Does the ESC come with wires where I would have to directly solder a tamiya connector to the end of it?

- The ESC comes with a JR connector. I assume that is for the throttle. Would the jR Connector fit into my Novak XXL receiver which has Futaba outlets.

That's it. Assuming I'm right on the motor and ESC JR Connector question, the only problem I would have is the battery. I don't understand how to connect it. Can I use a switch (on/off)? I don't think I can do it with these type of batteries. I know in my NITRO car I have a receiver pack, where I plug the little S connector into the switch connector, then the other switch connector goes into the receiver "battery" slot. But my question is is it possbile to still use a switch? How?

Please try to answer these questions. Sorry if they sound weird. ;)

Rob

[coke]

Ooops, I havent played with electric in a while. I realized most esc's come with on/off switches. That's what I'm asking: does this ESC come with a on/off switch?

[Promod]

coke, there are no dumb or weird questions. Every one had to learn some how.
You will have to solder the tamiya connector on. But I would go with deans connectors.
Yes the connector will work in your xxl receiver (that is what I have).
They make two L160 controllers one has the bec cable and the other dosen't. If your only going to run 6 cells I would get the one with the bec. If you get the one with out you will need a receiver pack.
Brushless speed controllers do not have an on/off switch like brush ESC. If it would be possible to add one I really don't know.
I hope this helps
Thank you,
Promod

[coke]

Ah, ok. So how would I turn the car on? Just connect the tamiya/deans plug together, and disconnect them when I'm done?

"They make two L160 controllers one has the bec cable and the other dosen't. If your only going to run 6 cells I would get the one with the bec. If you get the one with out you will need a receiver pack. "

I was going to originally use 6, but I might of wanted to add 8 later on. What do you mean I would need a receiver pack if I don't get the BEC cable? I'd have to have a receiver and battery pack?

:)

[Promod]

Yes, that is how you turn the car on and off just plug or unplug the battery.
You can run up to 10 cells with the bec. Than after that you will have to run a receiver pack(along with the normal battery).
Yes you are right if you get the controller with out the BEC cable you would have to run the receiver pack and the battery pack.
The main reason I say get the controller with the bec is it is just less complicated. With the RC7/L160 combo you shouldn't go over 10 cells. Not that you can't run over 10 cells but you will get constant thermos(heat protection that shuts the controller down, a real pain).
Thank you,
Promod

[coke]

Ok, thank you........

What exactly is the BEC cable and how do I use it? Does it come with the ESC? What do I connect to it, I am not too sure...... which wires from the ESC connect to it? Any pictures?

This will be the last question, I know you're getting sick of me. Just kidding :p

Rob

[Promod]

The bec cable just comes out the the speed controller like the "motor" cable. The bec cable looks the same as the "motor" cable, is 3 wire with a JR connector. The bec cable plugs into you receiver. The servo is channel 1, the "motor" cable is 2 and the Bec cable will plug in the batt channel on your receiver.
Sorry I have no pictures.
Thank you,
Promod

[somedude2187]

I can answer this. BEC (battery eliminator circuitry) takes a small amount of electricity away from the battery pack and drops the volatage down to power the rx and servos. The esc you get will have 2 pairs (- +) of wires, one connects to the channel 1 the other to the batt slot. On the esc that has no BEC it will have 1 pair of wires and only plug into the channel one slot and then your rx battery will plug into the batt slot. BTW the wires all have connectors that will fit your rx.

looks like you got to it first promod :)

[Promod]

somedude2187, I think you explained it better!!!
Thank you,
Promod

[krisI.925]

im seriously considering a brushless motor set up for my TXT. This is the set up that i found and that is some what in my price range.

-Lehner Warrior ESC w/reverse $129.95
-Hacker B50 S12 motor $170

I would like to find a better motor that could handle 12 cells but still be cheaper. Cause 170 bux for a motor is quiet a bit. And this set up would cost more than 300 bux. Which i means i would have to order them seperatly to fool my mother. But do u think it would be worth the cash. And if anyone can find a 12 cell motor thats cheaper please tell me.

And another thing i heard that these brushless motors can destroy your batts in about 20 runs. Is that true. Thanx for the help.

[crono man]

lehner motors are a very good alternative to hacker motors(higher quality imho) there is the basic series #4200,5300(dont now if they can handle 12 cells)and youve got the 19series check this website---->http://www.bk-electronics.com/modellbau/en/

the 4200basic seires costs 110$ at finedesignrc

:)

[k_sw31]

hi ya, geez, i didn't check my e-mail for two days and this forum is 2 pages longer. Any ways, i'll be gettin thelehner 4200 and the Lehner Warrior 1840 Brushless/sensorless ESC w/BEC w/ no reverse.


Crono Man- whats this you say about cogging, does the lehner setup do that?

[crono man]

yes k_sw1 i have heard of cogging problems with this controller maybe this link will help upi out-->http://pub13.ezboard.com/fmaxximumtraxxasfrm59.showMessage?topicID=1135.top ic

i think its a very good controler for e-maxx where cogging is maybe not that big of a deal but if you want trouble free smooth acceleration maybe a schulze would be better:)

[crono man]

hey guys these are the specs for the orion bl controller.
(this was taken from team-orion website)

rpm limi=55000rpm
amp rating=max 6turn motor
The Vortex features:

- Better than 250-step resolution over the whole control range for extremely fine speed control.
- „Auto-arm“ function and „power on reset“.
The Vortex works reliably right down to the last amount of energy in the battery pack.
- During the “Power-On” process the motor acts as a loudspeaker to give you audible confirmation of the procedure.
- The Vortex include a timing and switching frequency adjustment facility, which enables you to make adjustments by a DIL switch. This feature allows us to cater more accurately for the different magnetic field geometries and flux concepts employed by the various motor manufacturers. This function also lets you offset the maximum efficiency point to suit your particular application.

Temperature monitor:
The temperature monitor throttles down the motor and later switches off the motor. You can reset the unit using the "auto-arm" function (throttle stick to stop for about 2 sec.)
If the motor windings are short-circuited the temperature monitor reacts too slowly to prevent damage. Switch the motor off immediately to avoid permanent damage to the speed controller.

Voltage monitor:
As soon as the voltage of the drive battery falls back to the 5V threshold the motor is throttled back. If the situation which caused the controller to throttle back continues for more than a short time, the unit switches the motor off. Of course, you can re-start the motor again briefly by moving the throttle stick back to "stop" for about 2 seconds to re-arm the system.

With the Vortex the power system and the model remain fully controllable until the last usable energy in the battery pack is exhausted. We can not predict how long you can still control your model with the residual battery charge as this depends on many parameters such as the number of cells in the pack, the cell type, actual motor current and the way you control your model.

Maximum speed monitor:
If maximum rotational speed of the motor will exceed, Vortex throttles down. In this state do not use longer then 1 second.

Current Monitor:
The Vortex controller feature a current monitor circuit which trips when the current rises above the specified maximum value. If the motor is stalled, the motor is throttled back. This means, that a motor which draws an excessive current will never reach full-throttle, and the current may stay below the specified maximum value. If Vortex is some seconds in current limiting mode, it will disarm itself (switching off the motor). re-arming = 2 seconds “stop”.

Receiver signal monitor:
If the receiver signal fails, or the signal is longer or shorter than the usual range of values, the smart controller reverts to hold mode 1.5s before switching to disarmed mode.
This warning function enables you to eliminate receiver interference before you actually lose your model, perhaps by modifying the installation or changing the radio control components

Watchdog:
If this circuit is tripped the speed controller stops working briefly and then reverts to normal
operation.

Further explanations of DIL-switch settings:
DIL-switch # 1 = (0) Ferrite magnet motor (1) Neodymium magnet motor
DIL-switch # 2 = (0) Brake normal proportional (1) Brake faster
DIL-switch # 3 = (0) Reverse disabled (1) Reverse enabled
DIL-switch # 4 = (0) Timing standard (1) Timing softer than # 5
DIL-switch # 5 = (0) Timing maximum (1) Timing soft
DIL-switch # 6 = (0) 9 kHz frequency (1) 19 kHz frequency

[krisI.925]

hey i have desided to get a Modeltech brushless motor but what series should i buy. Series 10,20,30. And what are the differeneces between them. And if one of them is a 550 style model i would prefer that over the 540. Thanx.

[crono man]

promod,im thinking of diving in the BL emaxx thing..my question is this what are the basic essential hop-ups in order to have a bulletproof drivetrain?

thanks:)

[Soya]

....

[Soya]

I suggest Dynamite CVD's. Steel and cheap ($37.95). I've got 'em for the rear, soon to be getting some for the center:D
I just finished rigging up my reciever packs. I didn't have anything to charge the actual packs with, so I used the AA holders. But I used 2 in parallel. I would've put them in a series, but I didn't have any spare servo connectors:(

[crono man]

thanks soya aside from the cvd anything else you would recommend?(ie steel gears etc)

thanks man:)

[Soya]

Oh, even though it's a chunk of change, the Robinson steel slipper kit. I bought mine off Ebay along with some other stuff. I've had 2 pinions come loose and the spur would've been chewed if it wasn't indestructable:D

[crono man]

one more question soya...do the stock diffs hold up to bl power?

thanks again:)

[Promod]

You guys are not going to believe this most people don't. But I'm still running the stock unmodified plastic sliders on my E-maxx (THE THING). I have the plastic spur gear also.
What I do have beefed up is the supermaxx idle gears. I have also ungraded to the front and rear diffs to kippsters kit. I never had a problem with the stock diffs though.
Most people are not as lucky as I have been and will tell you cvds are a must. I have heard the RR double slipper will break tranny parts.
Thank you,
Promod

[Soya]

You have been lucky. I twisted the plasic sliders with the stock motors:eek:

[Soya]

BTW, I hooked the 2 reciever packs in a series. The steering was extremely glitchy, but it had TONS of power. I guess the reciever didn't like 12 volts:p

[WhoKnowsWho]

For those of you (like me) who are on a budget and who are thinking of going with a Lehner motor and Warrior ESC setup, www.rumrunnerhobbies.com is the supplier of Lehner to www.finedesignrc.com So you can get a slightly lower price if you go to him, (even lower if you go to Germany, but that's a bit more difficult). He's got more Lehner options too.

He is still waiting for Germany to ship after the flooding and such, but he said he will be getting them in soon. Have fun!

[alpinesky1]

Hey guys i got my T3 finished, all i can say is WOW, my RC7/L160rc is awsome, i have 4 6cell 3000hv packs only ran 2 on sunday and the runtime is around 10-12 mins, i only have it geared 16/87 and its very hard to tame has the speed of around a 13turn burshed motor with the gearing i have and has way too much tork(sp?) if you give it just little punch on the trigger it breaks loose and gose in to a slide/spin and this is with the slipper slippin, and the RC7/L160rc is very smooth you couldnt tell the diff between the RC7 and a brushed motor... Also on take off its faster then my old xxt with a 10turn and would smoke any rc10gt or xxx-nt on take off... this thing is just plane old fast, now ive got to find a way too keep the tires from spinin when im comeing out of a turn, gearing higher should help it but for now im goin to leave it alone(and take advantge og the 10+ mins of run time so i can practice longer, i havnt drove a rc in a couple years so im very rusty).... I think that the RC7 is perfect for any 10th scale car or turck, its very hard to drive anything faster would be undriveable i cnt wait till i get to the track im probley going to look like a 3 yearold ice skater,LOL the power to weight ratio is awsome its like haveing a supercharged 502 bigblock in a gokart.lol:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[crono man]

cool man!keep us posted the ratio thing..is the acceleration as smooth as brushed esc?(is there any cogging)(im seriously starting to thing going the same setup):D

[spenzalii]

I see a whole lotta people putting these motors in trucks. Has anyone put one in a sedan? I'm saving for one to put in my XXX-S, but I would like to have some heads up on anyone else's experience with a touring car.

[Soya]

I'm eventually going to put it in my rally car/touring car:D

[Promod]

Yes I have used brushless systems in a number of cars. An HPI pro 2, TC3, and a RC10L3 pan car. Brushless systems work just as great in cars as they do trucks!! The only thing with cars I have found is that its very easy to over power them(wheel spin). Where as with trucks you can load the power (HIGH NUMBER OF CELLS) and still control them.
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

hey guys what is the difference between the lehner 1860 and warrior controller?(aside from the programming capability of the 1860)

is the 1860 smoother or something?

[alpinesky1]

crono man- i have a xxt with a novak cyclone, and my FTT3 with the aveox RC7/L160rc feels just as smooth you really cant tell the diff between the two, heck i think my RC7 feels alot smoother reason being the brushless motor dosent drop down in rpm like a brushed motor does, it still drops down but not like a brushed motor does when u let off the trigger... All i have to say about cogging is " What Cogging" none at all nothing nota zip zero zilch... I am one happy camper;)

[krisI.925]

im starting to lean away from going brushless. So far its seems to me that its gonna cost around 230 bux for a setup and it just doenst really seem worth it to me. For that amount of money i could get new motors and a bunch of new batteries and a new charger and get the performance i want and still have a bit left over. So i think tomarow im gonna hit the lhs and if they cant fix my current set up i think im gonna put my old rebel in my truck and get some chameleon motors.

[crono man]

I think maybe in your case brushless would not be a good idea for the following reasons.

1.a txt-1 transmission is a very good but i dont thing it can handle brushless power braking left and right

2.imho the main quality of the txt-1 geared more toward crawling so will need a sensored based setup like the aveox which will cost you in 300$ range.

3.again because of its high center of gravity you will be constantly be flipping over the txt-1 with brushless motors

please dont think that im dissin your truck but i think you will be better served(for the amount of money you want to spend)with a brushed setup:)

[Soya]

Darn, another loyal follower dispersed:( ;)

[crono man]

na man dont worry man im saving up for a lehner 5300 and a vortex contreller---as mr burn would say,,,excellent:D

[krisI.925]

Originally posted by crono man
I think maybe in your case brushless would not be a good idea for the following reasons.

1.a txt-1 transmission is a very good but i dont thing it can handle brushless power braking left and right

2.imho the main quality of the txt-1 geared more toward crawling so will need a sensored based setup like the aveox which will cost you in 300$ range.

3.again because of its high center of gravity you will be constantly be flipping over the txt-1 with brushless motors

please dont think that im dissin your truck but i think you will be better served(for the amount of money you want to spend)with a brushed setup:)

Also i know that Speed + TXT-1 + 4ws = :(

Theres a lot of hard core clod people at one of my lhs s and they know alot about everything with RC electric monster trucks. Theyll help me find a good brushed set up for me. Im wonderen if i should get a new ESC tho.

[Racer88622]

Hey with my Brushless Rustler it would flip like everytime i took it onroad so i had to lower it like an inch off the ground

[Soya]

First day of school today. Ick;)

[Promod]

Sonya, starting school? How old are you guys? I have a feeling I'm the old man here.
Thank you,
Promod

[Soya]

Soya, not Sonya:rolleyes:
I'm almost 17. How old are you? Everyone I see here is younger than me.

[WhoKnowsWho]

I turn 23 next month. Been out of school for a while. :)

[Promod]

Hi Guys, I'm 32. My hearing is not as good as it used to be and its hard to see my E-maxx flying by (HA HA). Were has the time gone?
Thank you,
Promod

[crono man]

my age is the same as the number of turns on a stock motor:D

[WhoKnowsWho]

I finally ordered my setup, too bad it won't be here for probably 3 weeks. I'm starting out inexpensive as I planned, a Lehner 5300 and Warrior 7018 with reverse. $226 was a good price after shipping! :)

Now while I wait for that, I might start making an E-Maxx from eBay spare parts. Since I want to go brushless and use the xtreme chassis, I figure why buy the RTR? Not sure yet though, it depends on how things go.

[Racer88622]

im 14 hehehe:D

[Racer88622]

sounds good but do you think you will b able to find all the parts on e-bay?

[Soya]

Easily:)

[crono man]

hey guys some questions for ya..

1.which between these 2motors would you pick for a losi xxx(lehner 1920 5turn=6250 rpm/v or a 5300rpm/v)

remember im limited to 6cells..

2.do you know if the lehner basic series is serviceable like the rest of the lehner notors

thanks:)

[Promod]

If your only going to run 6 cells I would get the one with the most RPM.

I added two more videos. One of my P10 and the other of a E-maxx making a short speed run (about 60 feet) across my yard. I had to floor it easy but it hooked up, sort of.
Check it out

http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=4291482041

Thank you,
Promod

[WhoKnowsWho]

I hope I don't have too many problems getting what I need. I am watching the auctions this week (as I do every week), so as long as I don't get into any bad bidding wars, I should be fine.

Though if I can work a deal with my LHS I will do that instead, who knows!?

Hey Promod... jumps! Big jumps! :)

[crono man]

ok i have been checking out rumrunners websites for some info on the lehner 1920 series motors..

1.the 1920 is rated 1000w@30 amps

2.the rpm limit is 50000rpm

so my question is this..does this mean that if i put a 1920/5turn in my xxx buggy ill get 1000watts(1.34 hp) of power with 6cells?

also if you divide 50000rpm/6250rpm(the spec for the 1920/5w)you get 7.7volts which is almost equal to a 6cell or 7cell pack...so does that mean the motor is limited to 7cells max?

thank you for anwsnering all my newbies questions guys:)

[Popop]

Please don't forget Output Watt = Input Amp x Input Volt (not 1.3V per cell!) x Motor efficiency = Rpm x Torque

So 6V @1000W is impossible along with R/C cells ... More than 150A along with 1V per cell is impossible guy ! (And I don't talk about the 100% motor eff. !)

To be frank, count about :
15Amp Max continous on 500AR cells
25Amp ... 800AR
40Amp ... 1300CP
60Amp ... 2000...
80Amp ... 2400...

These values give you some correct setups ...

[crono man]

pop how do you factor in effiency in your calculations is it like for example

watts=6000rpm/v X 6.6v(6 cells) X .85(motor effiency 85%)=???

kind of confused:confused:

[Promod]

Keep this information coming. Now I'm learning something.
Thank you,
Promod

[Soya]

I knew I should've paid attention in math class:p

[jigaman]

I am working on a R.O.V. for the MATE competition at my high school. The robot will be going under water in a pool and i would like to know if you a seal the brussless motors and what the amps are? The whole robot will use two turbines for power, two servos for movment a led light and under water video camera. if anyone has the specs on a good brushless motor and a place were i can get one please contact me. Thanks

[krisI.925]

what high school do u go to. Cause i want to go to it. And does any one know anything about Novaks brushless Emaxx set up. If the price is right ill get one but i hope it comes out soon cause somethin happened to my rebel esc and its not working. And if it isnt coming out soon im just gonna blow my cash on a new esc and motors.

[crono man]

1.jigaman-check out www.aveox.com under their industrial division BUT you might (depending on your design) go with cheap brushed motor you totally immerge them in water and they dont short-circuit(i think because their dc powered)

2.kris-dont hold your breath for the novak system!if you want the cheapest setup foryour emax go get a lehner 4300 basic motor and lehner warrior controller for 117$=217$

[Popop]

Let's take a Trinity P-94 (12x2) as Airage reviewed it some months ago :

It gives 239W output in that way : 18000rpm AND 12.7N.cm (Newton*Centimeter) Torque

To produce such Mechanical power, it sucks some Electrical power so some Current (Amp) x Voltage (Volt) and has a typical efficiency at this 239W output ...

The numbers are as follow :
It sucks 63.6Amp along with 4.9V (The real voltage of a typical 6-cells pack under severe discharge ... More than 60A) and transform their 76.3% into Mechanical power (Rpm x Torque) and the rest (23.7%) into heat ...

Note the heat is about 74W heat ... A good iron !
So the limited time it can hold the load due to its design : Heat mainly comes on the brush contact and dissipates where it can ... Larger comm and brushes are typical of strong motors such as pletts (see following pic of my ULtra 920-4 rotor compared to a 12x2 SMT one)
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/rcsaga/jpg/rotor.jpg
The Ultra 920-4 is able to develop 314W Output in that way : 22000rpm AND 13.4N.cm

P.S.
When Airage says 4.9V, it doesn't include the ESC resistance and the wiring and plugs ones ... Some both good ESC's wires and plugs let it negligeable ... Note an entry-level esc along with 1.5mm² gauge wire and Tamiya plugs cannot allow such a negligeable loss of volt under 60A ... To be franck their typical use limit is more about 25A ...

[Popop]

Gigaman, how many watts do you need ??
As said by Crono, a good brushed can make it happen w/o any fear if it's WITHOUT bearings (berylium bushings auto lub ... bearings dead under water) and if you DON'T use Neodym magnets 'cause they will be damaged soonly under wet conditions ...
Inexpensive Spd500race or Ferro Spd700s can be useful for such applications ...

[crono man]

thank you very much popop now my equation is starting to make sense..

4.9v x 63.6amps x .739 =239watts(hey it works)

two important factor i did now

1.did not now that the voltage of a 6cell pack can drop this low

2.you need a dyno in order to have honest numbers

[rchotrod]

What class do you guys race in? I am guessing that you can run in the mod class. Or do you all race in a BL only class?

Also what about the weight difference. Aren't the BL motors much heavier than brushed motors?

I guess the weight would not be much of an issue with all the extra power.

And how are the BL motor cars comparing to the brushed motors on the track, more laps, faster laps?


Rod
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/burnout.gif

[krisI.925]

Originally posted by crono man
1.jigaman-check out www.aveox.com under their industrial division BUT you might (depending on your design) go with cheap brushed motor you totally immerge them in water and they dont short-circuit(i think because their dc powered)

2.kris-dont hold your breath for the novak system!if you want the cheapest setup foryour emax go get a lehner 4300 basic motor and lehner warrior controller for 117$=217$

Crono Man where can i buy this set up for that price and can i run up to 12 cells on it. I would be putting this in my TXT-1 and i dont know if 6 cells would provide ample power. But did just do something to my rebel esc so i need a new one that can handle some hotter dual motors.

So brushes set up
-$99 for F1 Pro Reverse
-$65 for 2 Speed Gems Pro motors
=$165

For about 60 bux extra i might be willing to go brushless if it can deliver more torq and power and longer run times and all. But where did u find this stuff that is that cheap.

[WhoKnowsWho]

krisI.925: Two places have been mentioned throughout this now long 9 page thread, www.rumrunnerhobbies.com and a site that is supplied by them www.finedesignrc.com
Rum Runner actually has an E-Maxx setup page, nice stuff.

rchotrod: I think www.ultimatetraxxas.com had a little thing about his BL setup. He was getting near 1/8 scale buggy lap times with his modified E-Maxx. Depends on the setup really, and the driver.

[krisI.925]

hmm im starting to reconsider my desision. Do u think that a there e-maxx set up will have enough power to tow stuff around and plow my drive way in the winter. Im mostly looking for a lot of torq not so much speed. But listening to other people it seems like the motors have plenty of both. Thanx for all the help.

[Popop]

A word to say I'm ready to host every successful B/L setup on a new dedicated chapter of my www.rcsaga.com portal

Two 300pix large .jpg pics :
1 of the overall (with batt and esc layout)
1 close-up of the motor mount

+ Text data such as follow :
- MOtor ref.
- ESC ref.
- Cells used
- Overall weight
- Gear ratio
- Speed measurement (if available)

Bye all

[crono man]

this is a question to e-maxx owners..

can you use 2 BL motors with one controller with this setup..

2 lehner basic series 5300 motors

1 lehner 18150 controller(18cells 150amps)

2 8cells pack in parallel

will the controller be able to handle the 2 motors(not just amps but also be able to arm both motor)?

i know this setup is overkill but just curious if it works:D

[Soya]

Crono Man--I don't know any BL ESC's that can handle 2 motors.

[Soya]

....

[gixxer]

So which setup will you guy reccomend for a Rs4 pro 2 with 2speed? I also have a Emaxx.

Will a brushless be as fast or powerful as my mp6 with O.S.V01B?

[Popop]

The engine you talk about seems (according to Airage) to develop still some watts (788) on 38000rpm
With a gear ratio of 11.71 and 11.3mm Dia wheels, it gives 69km/h ... quite fast anyway !
@ ultimate practical 40000rpm, 73km/h ... A blast !

Don't be fooled, these speeds refer to what most of us take as more than 100km/h w/o reliable speed measurement !

To do such, a strong Neodym setup could do the job on the RS4 with correct duration but ... keep in mind it requires some top end 50000rpm along with 7.0 gear ratio (please indicate me the correct one) and 63mm dia sedan wheels ...

Motor Rpm and gear ratio can be dialed in another way but note many sedan cars cannot achieve such a speed simply due to their gear ratio ! A 50000rpm 05mod isn't so common (with wheels on the ground) !

Bye

[krisI.925]

I think im gonna get a brushless motor system and i have desided on the #3 or #4 combo ar rumrunnerhobbies.com

I dont know weither i should get the 1920/10 motor or 1920/8 motor. Ill probably be running 6 cells but possibly be running more later. But the 1920/8 has more RPM does that mean it has less torq than the 1920/10. And will the 1920/10 give me more run time or will it be the same. Im putting this in a TXT-1 which has a gear ratio of 34:1. So torq really isnt a big issue. So which motor should i get? Thanx for the help.

[crono man]

kris--this is my opinion since you have a high ratio go for the higher rpm 1920 because any of the 19series has ENORMOUS torque and the LOWER the cell count the higher the rpm motor you should get to make up the lower cell count...but be warned these motors are extremely powerful

[krisI.925]

ok ill go with the 1920/8 then. And i need a extremely powerful motor. The truck weighs like 12 lbs with electrics. And Iv seen people running dual 10T motors on them and haveing good power so i think the #4 combo should suit me just right. Thanx for the help.

[Popop]

Kris, If I correctly understood ... you want to overpower a 12lb Big wheeler with 6 cells ?
Perfect to fry all six ! ;)

Seriously prefer far more cells!
12cells are a minimum -> along with 50A and 80% eff. it gives about 480W so about 40W per lb ... A minimum

[krisI.925]

how would i fry 6 cells? And the place im buying this from recomends 6-8 cells with this set up for the e-maxx so i figure ill start out with 6 if i need more power then 12 cells. But im not totaly certain it can handle 12 cells. But i could just wire 2 6 cell packs in series to the esc to get that power right?

[Popop]

I never use parallel Ni-cads but some guys do ... Be sure to use perfectly matched batts ...

Concerning the 6-8 setup, I'm very surprised by the E-maxx setup reference... Not the sort of big power I use to refer to ...
It will run anyway :p

[miniracer]

Do they make a BL motor for the size motor in a HPI Micro RS4 ?

[crono man]

miniracer--check this site it got all the dimension for bl motors www.rumrunnerhobbies.com/

[Promod]

Miniracer, I to have a micro awaiting a BL. The Hacker B20 motor will fit the micro. The problem is finding a speed control small enuf to fit that has proportional throttle and brakes.
Thank you,
Promod

[SPEEDseekR]

what kind of speed control am i suppose to use on brushless motors?

[k_sw31]

that would be insane!! My micro does thirty easy w/ a big block.
Should i get the lehner 5300 or the 4200, i'll be running most 6 cells and sometimes seven in my t3, so i want higher rpm. Which one has more rpm?

I got a two-speed for my t3, with seven cells and a 15 turn chrome modified its wheelie happy :D Can't imagine with a bl, can't wait though.

[k_sw31]

just i little electric versus nitro.

-Say you have a gt with a .12 os cv-r. Weighs about 4.5 pound fully loaded (gas etc.) that make for a power to weight ratio of .222 hp per pound.


-A loaded t3 weighs about 3.5 lbs w/ batt etc. If i'm correct the lehner 4200 has about 1.35 hp. That would mean a t3 w/ a lehner would have a power to weight ratio of .385 hp per pound.


Wow, thats pretty cool, i was amazed with my gt with a power to weight ratio of .1444 hp per pound. pretty neat. Have to brush up on me math before school starts.

[gixxer]

I've just ordered the aveox setup from ebay. Rc7 L160rc combo. I also just recieved my radar gun. Now i can properly find the fastest gear ratio and clock all of my rc's to see which is the fastest :D.

With a 12 turn d4 motor it couldn't pull my rs4 2 speed without burning the com up "my ratios are changed for speed". Very fast for 1-2 passes and then dies. Hopefully my new brushless will not have any problem with that ratio. Thinking of running 8 cells on it if it needs more rpm's :p.

[k_sw31]

sweet. what will you be running it in?

http://T3 OO3

how do you post pics!!???!??!?!?:mad:

[gixxer]

With the Aveox Rc7 motor what turn motor is it equivenent to? Rpm wise b/c i know brusless has tons of torque.

[DamianD1]

Has anyone tried the Lehner Warrior Controller?

[aeb3man_44]

hi,

i just wanted to let you guys know that Wild Hobbies did a project on making a Pyscho Micro rs4 with a brushless motor, there is a video too and the micro is crazy fast

wild hobbies.com/Projects/micro/default.asp


Good luck to you all!