Brushless Motor Forum v3.0 [Archive] - Page 2

BJMFH

03-23-2003, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by OptimaMan
Alright guys.. I did it. I ordered the 1515 6 turn. They also sell and adaptor plate so that the 15 series motor will drop right into a 540 sized mount. So, be ready for a comparison between that motor, a 5300, and a C40 6 turn in the future.

I was just about to go crazy and also get the 1920 5 turn.. but reality struck in and I had to hold back.

So, I should get it in a couple of weeks... and that micro 18120 I'm still waiting for.

BTW, my Hacker C40, even though it is "540" sized, the actual diameter of the motor minus the cooling fins is about 29 mm which coincidentally is the same diameter as the 15 series motors...

It's official now, you are now the "BL Baller". You probably walk around with platinum "iced out" BL motors hanging from your neck. :D

I look forward to hearing your comparison between the motors. I almost bought the 1920/5 too, but I want to see how the 1516/6 performs. Based on what you say, I'll make my decision then.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 5300, but I want to take my "BL game" up to the next level.

Soya v1.1

03-23-2003, 12:41 PM

Hello all, I'm in Florida:D
I just boke 3 driveshafts, looks like I'll be making a stop at the lhs. I'm going to the beach today, wish me luck:D

RadicalRustler

03-23-2003, 12:54 PM

thats a lot of money on bl! You going to rent those systems to pay for another one?

My car is geared 18/84 with internal 2.72. I am pretty sure it is overgeared. I still have to get a reply from Chris to see about the 7018.

spreckenzy

03-23-2003, 01:36 PM

i was just out with my t2 and it was popping wheelies!!! this thing is screaming fast. how do i check the top speed without a radar gun?

Simen123

03-23-2003, 01:59 PM

Alright guys.. I did it. I ordered the 1515 6 turn.
I just ordered the 1920 5 turn motor just now.
:D:D
I`m looking forward to reading your reviews of these two motors(and the esc)!
I hope you get them soon! BTW, I believe the C40 6T motor I ordered will get here this week (after what they said at Fullers Fast Electrics) :)

Mr. Constructor

03-23-2003, 02:45 PM

to OptimaMan

Don´t feel fooled, the 15 15 series doesn´t produce that much torque, the 1520 has enough to spin up the Car much more faster, I´m now using the 1520 7T in my 10th serpent, with 6 cells, the car Can handle this power, but a mighty a lot tinier (in width most) sedan is overpowered.

the 1520er is a great Motor weighting 30 gr. less the basic line and almost 50-60 gr. less than the brushed motors, the motor produces the Torque and the speed (if you choose the right one ;) ) and is much smaller than any other Motor !!
It´s ideal for small 10th Cars, the bigger Hacker c 50 or the LMT 19 and up are for much bigger cars ( the 2240er goes into my new Projekt the following week )
If you plan on th 1515 0r 1520er take a look at the C 40 S version too !!

To RadicalRustler

Whats up with the Kontronik Smile series ??
Maybe the 40-6-12 or the 50-6-18 (without BEC !!) is a favorite for you, the 40er is with bec car and boat and flyer and heli programm and goes up to 40 A (and 60 for 20 sec.) wich should be enough when using a hacker c 40 or lmt 1520er (wich should be enough for every 10th Car)

The 50er goes up to 18 cells but without BEC and can withstand 50 A continious and 20 sec up to 70 (that is very close to the 3 times the price Schulze 12.61 !!

Check these out, at our stores it is selled for round 120 Euro (wich is about 125 USD) maybe it is a decision . . . . . ??

See ya

To OptimaMan

Check out the LMT HP for the Motor Diagrams, there are explicit torque and amps and so on readings, if you´re not having them on the English page, give me a hint, i will send you the diagrams for the Motors you are interested in.
These Diagrams show exactly the Torque loss if you use the 1515er !! (maybe it is still plenty enough, but . . . . .eh, hmm, just to tell you . . . . ;) )

RadicalRustler

03-23-2003, 03:18 PM

Mr. Constructor, i am 99% sure that I ordered a 7018, but a got a 4018. So i an using it for now untill i get an e-mail from chris. I spent all my money on this and am not going to settle for a 4018 when i can get a 7018 for 10$ more

spreckenzy

03-23-2003, 04:06 PM

i must say i am impresed with the basic 4200/7018 setup. the speed, torque, and efficiency is outstanding. i just had a gp 3300 battery last for 16 minutes! i can make my t2 do wheelies and the top speed i am very happy with. wish i had a way to clock the thing for speed. after the 16 minute run the controller was warm but not hot. the motor on the other hand was hot. i had to remove my finger from it oafter about 5 seconds of touching it. i do not think that is problematic taking the run lasted 16 minutes.

Mr. Constructor

03-24-2003, 09:01 AM

here ís the First pic of a new Motor from Kontronik (the firm most of my Electronics are from)
This motor is available in several RPM sizes, goes up to 5500 (under load !!) and all will handle up to 10 cells (even the 5500er)
the can design is made to fit all 400 480 500 600 diameters (for the Bore holes) and the endbell is removable so you might be able to change bearings.
this motor has a built in heat sink, and the wires go out at the Top not the end, at many cars this should be an advantage (small room for these hard cables, the weight is really awesome only 140 gr for all !!

By the way: do NOT Cut these Wires out of the Motor, they´re the inner windings that have to be isolated with a special mixture over the surface, only on the area where this mixture is missing you are able to solder !!
Replacing these "wires" is NOT possible (better when you have a LMT (not Basic) Motor, they have 3.5mm gold cons already built in,)

Anyway, the new Motor looks very excellent to me, maybe I get one for my newest Project a 2WD MT (but not an elctric version at all, it´s the Nitro version I´m interested in, because their trannys are constructed for a lot more abuse !!)

Here is da pic (if you wanna have some more infos on this, mail me, i will try to find them out)

See ya

crono man

03-25-2003, 02:15 PM

its coming........

Simen123

03-26-2003, 09:46 AM

Any news on your motors/esc? :)

crono man

03-26-2003, 04:00 PM

crono man has officially left the brushed world...

I GOT MY SS NOVAK!!!!!!:D

RCmaniac324

03-26-2003, 05:46 PM

Hey guys...I have a question. I've had my Basic 5300/Warrior 7018 for a few months now, and I have a question. I have noticed that I remember that when I first installed the system, it would lock my truck's tires when I hit the brakes from a speed run. Today, however, I have braking power maybe a little better than my 12x2 had before I went BL. What happened to that wheel-locking holding power??? My radio doesn't have any exponential setting that I could have bumped as far as I know......any particular things I should check and/or fix to get this power back, or is it gone for good??? Thanx in advance.

RadicalRustler

03-26-2003, 07:34 PM

how many packs have you been running after each other? And was the esc warm/hot when you tried this?

RCmaniac324

03-26-2003, 07:44 PM

I have only been running one pack successively, b/c that is all I can currently use untill I save money to assemble loose cells I have. As for temperature, I also noticed that when I first got it it stayed pretty much cool as can be, and recently it's been heating up more, but never too warm to the touch and the heat dissipates within a minute of stopping running.......I am very puzzled.

RadicalRustler

03-26-2003, 08:02 PM

have you put a heatsink on it? If not, try it. Anda copmuter store will have all the heatsinks you'll need. and, if you want to go over the top, put a fan on the heatsink! My warrior 4018 gets real warm, and i haven't figured out how to get barkes, just reverse.

RCmaniac324

03-26-2003, 08:07 PM

I bought my Warrior 7018 with the factory heat sink, and I have everything the same as when I first ran it, as far as I know. I'm confused.

saw

03-26-2003, 10:43 PM

have you tried resetting your controller

gixxer

03-27-2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by crono man
crono man has officially left the brushed world...

I GOT MY SS NOVAK!!!!!!:D

How's the Novak system. Review please :)

crono man

03-27-2003, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by gixxer
How's the Novak system. Review please :)

will come as soon as possible i will be using it in my xxx-buggy

i will keep you all posted for sure:)

crono man

03-27-2003, 11:59 AM

small question to the people that have novak ss system

i noticed that when my motor is running under no load(on my bench)when i grab full throttle the rpm limiter kicks in(i know this normal) but sometimes the motor seems to all of a sudden jump in rpm like the rpm limiters fails or something!(again this done purely under no load conditions)

please tell me if you guys had this weird phenomena with your novaks

JonDax

03-27-2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by crono man
small question to the people that have novak ss system

i noticed that when my motor is running under no load(on my bench)when i grab full throttle the rpm limiter kicks in(i know this normal) but sometimes the motor seems to all of a sudden jump in rpm like the rpm limiters fails or something!(again this done purely under no load conditions)

please tell me if you guys had this weird phenomena with your novaks

I'm not sure about the Novak, but my schulze manual says never to run the motor with no load. I don't think it's a good idea.

crono man

03-27-2003, 12:45 PM

i forgot to add that im in mode6(sportsman)

RCmaniac324

03-27-2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by saw
have you tried resetting your controller

Yes, I have. Twice in fact.

WhaDL

03-27-2003, 08:23 PM

Hey, crono man:

Thought I'd mention one little thing about the Novak BL:

Make sure that you mount the motor so that the PC board for the wires is pointing fairly far forward.

I think I started out with the back edge of the PC board positioned so that it pointed about straight up. But you'd be surprised how readily the board can get dinged up in that position, even without any noteworthy crashes or seriously nose-high landings.

So I positioned mine so that the back edge of the board is pointing forward at about a 45 degree angle. Seems fairly safe in that position.

BTW, I haven't noticed that RPM jump you mentioned, but then I haven't really held it open much with no load. I've only given it a short goose to see the tires expand.

crono man

03-27-2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by WhaDL
Hey, crono man:

Thought I'd mention one little thing about the Novak BL:

Make sure that you mount the motor so that the PC board for the wires is pointing fairly far forward.

I think I started out with the back edge of the PC board positioned so that it pointed about straight up. But you'd be surprised how readily the board can get dinged up in that position, even without any noteworthy crashes or seriously nose-high landings.

So I positioned mine so that the back edge of the board is pointing forward at about a 45 degree angle. Seems fairly safe in that position.

BTW, I haven't noticed that RPM jump you mentioned, but then I haven't really held it open much with no load. I've only given it a short goose to see the tires expand.

thanks for heads-up i will be sure to instal it like you said!!:)

about the rpm jump this what a tech guy at novak told me

"Hi Adam,
I'm not totally sure that it's normal but running the motor totally unloaded is
not recommended by our engineers. The motor NEVER sees that kind of use in the
car so there is no need to run it unloaded for any reason. The motors will
sometimes burst the throttle a bit under no load as they are not designed to run
under no load for extended periods. It's not broken, but you should not run the
motor unloaded."

so i think i will stop tinkering with it and just put it in my buggy

:)

WheelNut

03-28-2003, 04:13 AM

I've heard that is just the RPM limiter dropping down the RPM and is totally normal.

Now that I've heard about these 15 series motor I'm very intrigued (sp?). I'm wondering if the 1525 would give good torque in a T3. Or even then 1520, that would be cool, very light! I e-mailed rumrunnerhobbies, and I'll see what they have to say about the 15 series motors. I'm guessing they dont draw many amps. Which is good for batteries, and of course you can buy a cheaper speed control. :)

And if all this stuff fails, I'll probably just get the Novak.

Lord Radeon

03-28-2003, 05:19 AM

Actually, none of you are right on the motor RPM surge. What happens, and why these controllers are so complicated is that the power is switched to them very fast, but not in the sense of a normal brushed ESC. Normal ESC is on/off. A 3 Phase brushless esc has to switch every pole in the motor on and off. The novak is a 2 pole motor, so you have 2 on/off cycles. Each on/off HAS to happen EVERY rotation of the shaft. (Now you get an idea of the intense switching) So at 30,000 rpms, your switching power 60,000 times. MUCH more then any brushed esc out there today. Naturally, when you run these motors unloaded, they can rev in excess of 100,000 (no joke) with the right voltage. This does several things. One, it heats up motor, and controller due to immense current flow. Two, it can destroy the motor because the bearings can't handle the extreme force. The motor shaft can also self-destruct and throw a magnet in motors without a single-piece shaft/magnet.

What happens with the RPM spike is the motor asks for current current current and overloads the switching capabilities of the controller. The controller no longer switches as fast as the motor is going and in that split second it loses the position of the motor shaft. It cogs lightly and stops switching for the split second it takes to find the shaft and resynchronize the switching of the magnetic poles. THIS is the rpm surge/spike. Hope this made sense

~LR

Lord Radeon

03-28-2003, 05:24 AM

PS, the controllers dont have an RPM limiter when you run the open profiles. Unloaded=bad ;)

crono man

03-28-2003, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by Lord Radeon
Actually, none of you are right on the motor RPM surge. What happens, and why these controllers are so complicated is that the power is switched to them very fast, but not in the sense of a normal brushed ESC. Normal ESC is on/off. A 3 Phase brushless esc has to switch every pole in the motor on and off. The novak is a 2 pole motor, so you have 2 on/off cycles. Each on/off HAS to happen EVERY rotation of the shaft. (Now you get an idea of the intense switching) So at 30,000 rpms, your switching power 60,000 times. MUCH more then any brushed esc out there today. Naturally, when you run these motors unloaded, they can rev in excess of 100,000 (no joke) with the right voltage. This does several things. One, it heats up motor, and controller due to immense current flow. Two, it can destroy the motor because the bearings can't handle the extreme force. The motor shaft can also self-destruct and throw a magnet in motors without a single-piece shaft/magnet.

What happens with the RPM spike is the motor asks for current current current and overloads the switching capabilities of the controller. The controller no longer switches as fast as the motor is going and in that split second it loses the position of the motor shaft. It cogs lightly and stops switching for the split second it takes to find the shaft and resynchronize the switching of the magnetic poles. THIS is the rpm surge/spike. Hope this made sense

~LR

wow hey thanks Lord Radeon for that very interesting read!!:)
so if i understand correctly for a split second when i noticed a 'spike in rpm' that was a desynchronization(sp?) between the controller and the motor?
-also does it change anything that the novak is sensored or do all brushless systems do that?

Simen123

03-28-2003, 06:17 PM

I found this at a link (to the makers of the Durango(a buggy conversion for the TC3) at team-orion.. Check it out!:
http://www.durango.rc10.de/photos/cactus2003/15_durango_cactus_classic_2003.jpg

crono man

03-28-2003, 06:35 PM

thats cute:)

k_sw31

03-28-2003, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Simen123
I found this at a link (to the makers of the Durango(a buggy conversion for the TC3) at team-orion.. Check it out!:

Man that little sucker must fly :D

RCmaniac324

03-31-2003, 09:30 PM

Hey guys, is it just me or has the last 3 to 4 days of posts just disappeared??? Last time I was in this forum 3 days ago there was over 2300 posts and now it only reads at 2290, however my user CP section says there were more than 15 posts since my last visit...am I missing something, or is my computer screwing with my head?????:confused: :confused: :confused:

tc3punk

04-01-2003, 10:09 AM

it's all in your head:p

Simen123

04-01-2003, 12:05 PM

am I missing something, or is my computer screwing with my head?????
yes, some posts are gone...
Optimaman: Have you gotten your new motors? I am still waiting for my C40 6T..

Mr. Constructor

04-03-2003, 02:39 PM

I got my new Hacker B 40 S 7t, so there might be a real comparison of a Hacker and a LMT Motor (both 7 t, same diameter, same lenght, same rotor, and same diameter of rotor (1/8 inch, 3.17 mm) so there might be a closer look th these two baddies !!

A very new thing (only a few minutes old)
I´ve spoken to the Manufacturer of Lehner itself, he told me, that there will be a new warrior out there after the dortmund fair (in 2 weeks !!) this esc really is like the warrior 7018 but a little thicker, and will go up to 99 A !!
That will be the reight chioce for everyone with a 5th or 6th car and up to 18 cells (without BEC that will go up to 12 cells as usual)

Maybe I have to get one the next few weeks for my 6th project . . . . . . .

See ya !!

Simen123

04-03-2003, 03:23 PM

Is this maybe the new Warrior?
http://www.rumrunnerhobbies.com/basic_XL_files/DSC01067.JPG

Oh, I ran my 4200/warrior 7018 today in my buggy :) before the run I shortened the battery wires(I had the system in my touring car before), and after that the throttle was a lot smoother. MUCH less cogging. And, a little tip for the Basic motors :) : To protect the bearing that faces out of the vehicle(not the one that goes on the motor plate), you can place a Shock rubber-cap(that little rubber thing in Tamiya, and many others, shocks) on the outside of it with glue(don`t try to get glue in the bearing though..). It fits around the bearing perfectly!! :)

RadicalRustler

04-03-2003, 03:26 PM

I have a bl porject, but it will take me awile to make (1000+, and thats just in the beginning.)
heres what will be going into it:
Unlimited engineering Supermaxx racerx suspension
UE supermaxx steering generation 4
UE diffs
Imex Maxx JB sayville rims (4)
Imex Maxx JB Chevon Tires 6inch by 4 inch (4)
Custom chassis, will be to make this maxx a stadium
TC3 shaft with two 5300s, one on each side of the spur on the shaft
Unknown body
7018 or maybe 9918
Still deciding if this car deserves to get something better than a traxxas tq 2 chnl.
Say if i'm going to need anything else other than a slipper!
I think i might finish this by october if not sooner, but only if my parents let me. they should though

Drayken S4S

04-03-2003, 08:54 PM

I hope this isn't too long winded, but I tried to give some details. I know when I read posts on BL, I am always looking for as much info as possible. Sorry if it gets boring, but I hope it helps some people get ideas, and helps those who are thinking of this particular setup.

DAY ONE:

Ok, we got to test a friend's Bl setup the other day. It was a tad over 70F outside. The maxx is near 16lbs. It was running Road Rage tires.

-3000nimh matched BB cells.
-12 cells, in series
-receiver pack
-17/70 gearing
-no body on
-no fans
-no heatsink on the motor, but there is the factory installed heatsink on the controller.

-Motor was 130F
-ESC was 115F
-Batts were 116F
(readings were from a temp gun)

We ran it WOT, but also hit the breaks alot. About 90%, and 10% on the grass. Alot of hard stopping and nailing the gas. Hardly no slow rolling acceleration runs. There is slight cogging, but only from a dead stop, and nailing the throttle. Otherwise, it is quite smooth.

Acceleration was good, and top speed was OK. It is noticeably faster than a 14cell titan/evx setup. (I didn't think so, till I ran the 14cell titans, and then realized how much faster the 1930/8 setup was.) We would like to see alittle more speed out of it. Torque is enough. This is mostly a basher Maxx, so it is more for the fun factor, not all out speed. We have not had time to try different gearing yet.

1) Do you think he is geared too conservatively? Go up to: 19/70 or even higher?

2) What are the temps that the motor, controller, batts are supposed to be at? What are the limits. Either in F or C, it doesn't matter.

Hope this info helps a little. Later this week, we will test with higher gearing, and even Jumbo maxx tires.

LATER IN THE WEEK:

Well, after running the 17/70 setup, and it being plenty cool, we went and put in a 19t pinion. I would say the 19t on 12cells ran about the same as 17t on 14cells. So needless to say, 17t was undergeared. The 19/70 gearing ran great. No cogging at all in first, and hardly any in second. (nothing to worry about)

Both first and second had more pep and top end. (I think 17t was way undergeared, since there was more torque AND top end, on the 19t. And if you llok at the temps, there was no additional heat:

Motor- 106F
ESC- 118F
Batts- 110F

Now, I have to mention, we did run a heatsink on the motor this time, but still no fan. I am suprised how fast the motor dissipates the heat, when checking the temps. It cools pretty fast. I was still left with a little more wanting of top speed.

Then we put the FAT, HEAVY Imex Jumbo Maxx tires (chevron tread). It now wanted to slightly cog when trying to run at very low throttle. And starting from second, caused cogging. IMO, a little too much and I would get anoid, but still not TOO bad. Torque and speed was still good though. And suprisingly temps were still about the same:

Motor- 113F
ESC- 119F
Batts- 115F

IMO, I still think we can gear another tooth or even two, if we run regular size tires.

I wanted to strap in a set of my 14cell packs! We put the road rage tires back on, and strapped in the 14cells. With 19/70, this thing is a BEAST!!! I really cannot believe how much faster it was. There was no way for me to pull the throttle even half way, without flipping. Oh, there was NO cogging either, in first or second. I could have it going about half speed in first, then punch it, and it would STILL pull a wheelie. We were all in awe, as I made about the 7th speed pass, when I ever so gently blipped the brake. WHAM, end over end, lol. Ripped the antenna holder out, and busted up the body posts and rear bumper. It would have done alot more, if he didn't have a R/C Raven roll cage. Well, after saying I was sorry about 20 times, we desided that was enough.

I am a little disappointed that we didn't get to run a full set of batteries, and get temps. I may be pulling the motor and controller out, and throwing it into my full SM Maxx, tomorrow. I still have to change my servo internal gear, and update my SM servo saver. If I can motivate myself to do all that, I will see how it runs. I should also be able to go to the track and see if it heats up there. (The track is where I always had heat problems)

I am SOOOO confused now, lol. I was disappointed with this setup on 12cells. And I was set on getting dual 1920/7's, on 8cells each. Now that I have seen 14cells, I don't know what to do, lol. I doubt I could handle more speed than this setup. And if it runs cool, I don't really see a reason to go dual, if I am happy with the power.

1) Guys, theoretically, the 1930/8 on 14cells, should have about 45,000 rpms/volt. And the dual 1920/7 on 8cells each, should have about 43,000rpms/volt. So the 1920/7's "SHOULD" be faster and have more torque, right?

2) Do you guys think the Hacker Comp controller can handle 14cells into the 1930/8?? I like the way the 18120 is performing, but I have little room for it in my SM chassis. The hacker comp would fit ALOT better.

3) Lastly, the numbers on the 1930/8 and the 1940/6 have the same rpm/volt. Do you think the 1940/6 would be a better choice, or too low of a wind? Or would the 1940/7, even though less rpm, be better? The 1930 pulls 1200watts at 30amps. and the 1940 pulls 1400watts at 50amps. I am wondering if the 1940 motor is just too much of an amp hog.

k_sw31

04-03-2003, 10:03 PM

That was a really long post :p I cant really answer your questions but I wouldn't mind a pic or two ;)

OptimaMan

04-04-2003, 09:41 PM

It's been a while... and still no 1515 and 1920 and 18120... As soo as I get it, I'll test them! Thanks for being patient.

jcm-punk

04-04-2003, 10:34 PM

Hey,
Does anyone run a c40 9 long in an emaxx? If so, could you post some speed results? Thanks.

Mr. Constructor

04-05-2003, 06:05 AM

To Drayken S4S

As for the Temps the Motors and the ERSC should NOT exceed the 110 Degress Celsius way.

(a normal of up to 90 °C is OK, above you have to change something)

The 1930/8 setup should be a little less torque, otherwise these two methods will be very powerful, as for your wallet, use only one motor at one ESC (two Motors on one ESC is possible (described above but a little tricky !!))
The E Maxx does not need two BL´s one is enough, off course if you still have a Carbon Chassis and all parts equiepped to the best, then only then the power of two BL could be handled by the Maxx !!
The Two Bl Motor solution will be a little more "Torquy" but the massive extra weight of the 2nd motor will equal this.

as for the ESC:

Do NOT use the Hacker or any other ESC (otherwise specialy quoted) with more than 12 cells, the BEC System overheats very fast and the safety is not recommended by the manufacturer, if you wanna use 14 cells up, use the Warrior, it can handle up to 18 cells but then without the BEC system (that will only go to 12 cells)

The Hacker Comp. is a lot better than the Sport version, it doubles the Fets on the Power board, so brandings or what ever are permitted !!

Use only up to 1000 W in the E Maxx, otherwise the Battery drain is too much (above 50 A it becomes tricky with lifetime and voltage drop)
The 19xx : the xx only despites the lenght of the Motor, the longer the Motor, the lower the RPM but the Torque is increased.

If you have athe same RPM on 1930 and 1940, the 1940 will draw a lot more Amps due to the extra Torque.

To Simen123

Yes that should be the new one !!
(I still anna order that one for my 6ht buggy, I really in good mode today, my Motor for the 6th is on the Way (at "High Noon" ;-) i will meet my Dealer)
it´s a 2240/13, with lots of power for this Car !!
(hopefully the slipper will not be melted down . . . . .:( )

To RadicalRustler

Why only a E Maxx, have you looked at the new Kyosho Mad Force 8th Truck with the 3 speed tranny, imagine:

12 cells, geared Hacker 19xx series (for torque and speed) and everything beared, made out of Carbon, should be less than 4 kg compared to the 5-6 kg of a Maxx, that beast should really dig out everything !!
I ´m very intereseted in that Chassis, the Conversion seems to be quiete easy (even without some machines)
so this could be the next project to do . . . .just thinking . . . .:D

See ya all

Simen123

04-05-2003, 07:38 AM

Kyosho Mad Force 8th Truck with the 3 speed tranny, imagine
That would be really cool :D

Drayken S4S

04-05-2003, 10:39 AM

Mr. Constructor, thanks for your insight. (so no one gets confused, I had posted temps in F, and not C. So it looks like a we have plenty of room in the temp area. :)

My maxx is pretty much umm, "maxxed" out in the hopup area, besides the BL. I got the Aluminum diffs, and even 1/8 aluminum diffs waiting to be installed. I have the SM idler gears, in an aluminum Transmission case too. All titanium CVD's, including steel center CVDs. Here is a pic of my setup:

http://socks4shocks.com/extra-pics/mymaxx/drayken1.jpg
http://socks4shocks.com/extra-pics/mymaxx/drayken2.jpg

I think it can handle a dual motor setup. Let me explain why I am even looking at the dual setup. I am NOT looking to it, for uncontrollable torque, nor am I trying to reach 50+mph. I used to have a B50 8s and it ran HOT! "Thermal" is a swear word to me, lol. I don't ever want to have to deal with thermals again! Everyone that has a dual setup, has told me that it runs considerably cooler, and this is what attracts me to duals. It just seems like a dual motor setup will run cooler/more efficiently, and even give a little longer runtimes, since less watts and amps are being drawn. It's a toss up right now. (money vs. efficiency)

As far as using more than 12 cells: I ALWAYS dissable the BEC. The 18120 has it dissabled. I talked to Chris, at Fine Design, and he said Hacker now makes a Comp controller with NO BEC. I am just not sure if it can handle 14 and/or 16 cells. Some retailers say yes, others say no.

Here is a quote, form someone who has been helping me alot lately: Sure 1 is fine, but two is better. I like dual basic motors better than one single 7Xl, and I have tried both. But I will say a single XL motor on 16 cells is absolutely insane. The dually will always be more efficient and cooler running.

And that is Basics! The 1920/7 should draw LESS amps than the basics, and be even more efficient, yet still have more torque. (the basics are less efficient at partial throttle, than the 19xx series)

RadicalRustler

04-05-2003, 01:43 PM

Mr. Constructor, it wouldn't be a normal e-maxx. It would have Unlimited engineering stuff, a custom aluminum chassis that would lower the cg, and a direct shaft from one diff to the other with a slipper (like a tc3 shaft, but longer and with a slipper). I am considering converting a savage but that would be harder due to the vertical chassis plates. But the rtr of the savage is cheaper than the ue maxx. So i think it will be a savage with my own dual basics/warrior (you proved that two motors could be run on this controller, and your motors had a higher amp pull) but first, i have to earn the money.

Soya v1.1

04-05-2003, 07:44 PM

Stupid resubscribing thing.

RadicalRustler

04-05-2003, 08:21 PM

do you subscribe to this thread? I did for 1 week, until my e-mail got swamped!

Soya v1.1

04-05-2003, 08:41 PM

I subscribe to everything I reply to, that way I don't have to go searching for the right thread.

k_sw31

04-05-2003, 10:03 PM

I check my email once or twice a day usually, so I dont have a problem with getting to many :)

fakieflip101

04-05-2003, 10:34 PM

hhehe im the one to veiw this thread for the 40,000th time hoooooorrrrray

Mr. Constructor

04-06-2003, 01:45 AM

To Drayken S4S:

Looks pretty good, in this case, two Motors are not really a problem, maybe the width of the car (and not enough stability resulting of this) will be a problem, but there is another Conversion method available:
My E Maxx is running now on 2x 17t 540er motors on 12 cells (quiete not bad, but there is that little punch missing . . .:D )
So why not flip off the Motor plate, the slipper, the gears before the housing totally, everything off, then take a geared 19xx or similar or a LRK (runs 6th the RPM but has 6th the power !! (without a gear off course, very light, only 150gr (thats ONE normal Motor))
These Motors should be able to really pull the lawn !!
(maybe I will make a conversion to my Truck soon, I first have to check the power diagrams of this Manufacturer, to figure out, wich motor suits best.

To RadicalRustler

Sounds very good, but there is one bad thing that might be complicated:

The long shaft, it will twist under the load, so it has to be a hollow bored cfk shaft or a really solid one out of titanium (for the best performance, alu does it either) have you already thought over the screwing the shaft to the diff ?? (the shaft has to go IN the bearings of the idler (small gear that comes out of the diff housing) )
I think (after checked this out at my E Maxx) this is not possible to flip the shaft (you have to do so, otherwise the shaft will slag in your Maxx) over the idler gear shaft and then these package has to fit in the bearing of the diff housing, thats too small !!

Check this out, before you´re planning this otherwise very good project, could become difficult without bigger machines (lathes, drilling stands, grinders, sawing mach., etc.)

See above for other Ideas !! (the LRK Conversion is very easy and will also give you the power you want, the small connection pin from the Motor Axle and to the Slipper axle is available in the Boat sector (from Steven axle to Motor there) so the availability will be a lot better.

See ya

Hey FakieFlip101, the 40.000 th could win a Washing machine with cable connection or a TV with water Connection, you´re lucky !!

But I think this is the best thing to prove a good new tecnology, these board really is awesome, there are that many good projects there, mabe we have to post the setups in the the setup threat and to open a new thread, only for pics of these Projects ?? Any interests?? (you cannot find pics here anymore, too much pages !!)

Mr. Constructor

04-06-2003, 08:38 AM

Hey, it´s ready for some Pics, I´ve now my Motor for my 6th Buggy Project !!
(Got it yesterday)
It´s not completedly Wired due to the Solder time (my Wife wants to see me from time to time . . . .;) )

So I have to do the wiring another Day, I do not wann use any extra Battery, only these 18 Cells for driving the 2240/13 Lehner !! (This thing puts out around 2 Hp of power (almost up to 1500 W, normal cruising around 1000 W !!)

This was my biggest and most Money Shredding Project so far, it is twice the Money as for a completed 8th Street Racer from HPI or Serpent !!

But it will make 4 times the fun !!

I can´t really wait to get this babe to the ground and hit the throttle !!

See what I mean :
(look the size !! (there´s a Kyosho Ultima and my 4wd 8th BL Buggy on the Pic)

Mr. Constructor

04-06-2003, 08:43 AM

Another Pic, after finishing the Body !

Mr. Constructor

04-06-2003, 08:49 AM

Do you wanna see under the Body ??

Ok, this the Car made totally out of Carbon to reduce the weight of these Monsters from 11 Kg to nearly 6.5 Kg !!
(fully driveable) but the BL Motor puts out the same power than these 23cc Motors AND it spins up higher (up to 27.000 compared to 18-20.000 of these 23 cc engines)

See ya all
(the complete Setup will be in the Setup thread as soon as I got some extra time)
The Car is shown during the Building stage, but only the dampers and the Electronics are missing)

RadicalRustler

04-06-2003, 10:10 AM

I think for now, i will just convert the savage, and later on try a single shaft design to reduce weight. I was planning on doing that by using cvd outputs and a shaft with the pins in it.

rpmz

04-06-2003, 12:14 PM

Im gonna sound like one of those people who dont know anything. but if i was going for all out power what

pinion
motor
esc

would i have to buy

Thanx -Dan

Mr. Constructor

04-06-2003, 04:01 PM

To rpmz:

as for a 2wd 4wd and truck offroad 10th class you should be fine with a warrior 7018 and a Basic 5300 (maybe the new XL Version for some better torque)

As for Monster Trucks as the Maxx (or similar conversions) you should try the 19xx series from hacker in a or 2 Motor Combo.
The BEC goes up to 12 cells from most ESC´s today, so if you plan on running 12 cells, the Hacker comp. (the Sport is a little weaky) the Schulze 1861 (or higher)
and the Warrior 7018 or maybe the new 9918 are the ESC´s to watch out.
For sedans, maybe a 15xx series or a Hacker B 40 S comes in attention, because the weight is lower, and the power is around 300 W (that´s fast enough for all cases)

As for 8th Conversions (from Buggies or trucks) you should go with a 19xx series or a Hacker B 50 S (maybe L for torque) and a Kontronik Fun 500 at 8th you shouldn´t go less than 10 cells (12 is excellent) less cells means more Amp draw.

As for some special Projects, you could ask me, maybe I´ve got an Idea on wich motorised form will be a good thing (or starting point)
(see 6th above)

If you would give me the details of your car, it will be a lot easier to give you the right (or a good) setup.

To RadicalRustler:

I think the Savage is quiete a good truck, but it might be very expencive to built it a real BL winner (all Drive Parts should be replaced and the weight is a little High on that truck, could bcome difficult to reduce, without spending 100´s of bucks on the aftermarket parts.
A good thing right out of the box could be the TXT 1, the drivetrain has it all you need for great power, and there are many self tuning options (the weight is already slightly low, and you do not have to convert the drivetrain from gas to BL (could become difficult in some cases (some of my Projects couldn´t be done without a lathe and other "bigger" machines !!)

If the TXT gets a real good facelift, the result should be more than good!!
(decision depends on your building and machining (and the machine park too) skills)

Tell me wich one you will choose, I´m interested in every Project that becomes a good BL "power machine"

See ya

rpmz

04-06-2003, 04:29 PM

Ok dont laugh its a tamiya mini! i would think this was a "special" project its a little bet at my club, i gotta beat a bolink dragster with a mini

what will i need to uprate exactly so i can stop the car from wearing away or breaking and ruff cost would help

m03 chassis

djblock

04-06-2003, 07:50 PM

Anyone ran a 1920(low turn) in a buggy or truck. Been running a 4200 for quite a while and well I need more power. Please give your opinions or experieces with your setup!

Setup:
lmt 4200
hacker sport
6-8 cell battery packs
running in a t3 and xxx4

Mr. Constructor

04-07-2003, 03:27 PM

To djblock:

Maybe you should try out a LMT Basic 5300 or the newer Basic XL series, they´re longer and will produce up to 30 % more torque, choose the right wind, and let your cars fly !!
(the series are very new, so I cannot give you further datas on the Windings and exact power readings, the site will be updated after the toy fair in Dortmund (this weekend, after that, they wanna make the update as soon as possible)

To rpmz:

We do NOT laugh at anyones project, have you got some pics??
(a BL in a mini could be very fast, if you get the power to the street, due to the shorter wheelbase, this might be complicated)
(my Mini is "only" a 13T 540er Mod. machine, and uses some 2 Damper system, that allows the rear axle to stand against the corner forces (some kind of "steering" at the back) this lets the run like a train no problems with the power (maybe it will be a good car with a BL in it ??)

as for the mini (due to the low weight already) you should be very powerful with a LMT 5300 and warrior at 6 cells (do NOT run more, the chassis will wear out too fast, especially if it is not a well tuned chassis (I will make some pics of mine, naybe this will be some good startoff for your Car, will post it asap)

another thing might be the use of a smaller Bl (like Hacker B 40 S or LMT 1515 or 1520 series)
these Motors will have the same power than the 5300 series but they weight less and the LMT comes with that unique Star-Delta design that will give you two motors in one!!

Show us some pics, the Mini IS capable of handling the power of BL Motors, the fine tuning is the keyword, no overpowered car than most sedans are !! (just a very good suit for tha Car)

see ya

RadicalRustler

04-07-2003, 03:51 PM

I chose the savage b/c
1) independant suspension
2) Drivetrain can handle the power
3) 1/8th scale
4) isn't as xpensive UE maxx
5) most parts can be bought from www.greathobbies.com so i don't have to pay duties (taxes from amer. and then Canada too)
6) have a unique truck.

I am not sure the txt-1 is independant suspension kind of car.

I have a drill press, vice, electric hacksaw, dremel, etc. my dad owns a greenhouse and they need powertools to do stuff (thats the best part, tools and materials. I got a 5mm L aluminum (shape of L) to use for motor mount.)

Two things: I am still working for the money as i am almost broke, and this will take a while b/f i get the money (donations welcome :p)

I plan on using a 7018 (9918 if the 7018 doesn't work well) with either dual 5300's or micro 120amp with dual 5000xl ( later, this would seriously kill the wallet) Then i could race this against my rustler. (will steal the 5300 and 7018 until i can upgrade to XL's)

tc3punk

04-07-2003, 08:03 PM

just so you know, someone has already made a BL Savage...

it was on the maxxtraxx forum a while back...;)

RadicalRustler

04-07-2003, 09:08 PM

yeah, someone posted a link here. but there aren't many. (plus, i wouldn't be able to show my username here, i think) And that was a single motor, im doing two (harder than one, with the tranny offset a bit)

tc3punk

04-07-2003, 10:17 PM

wouldn't be able to show your name?

i don't get it..
cause it's rustler and not a maxx?:confused:

also, I just said that, so you could get some tips:)

RadicalRustler

04-08-2003, 07:55 AM

no, id have a nitro, and the reason we go bl is to defy nitro (at least i am)

tc3punk

04-08-2003, 09:00 AM

what's your user name there?
:confused:

Mr. Constructor

04-09-2003, 01:13 PM

To RadicalRustler:

Have you thought over using a LRK Motor?? (6 times the power, no need of a small tranny !!)

see www.modelmotors.cz for some details, maybe I got a new firm adress this week, they will produce LRK´s also, but slightly bigger ones, that should have enough power for catapulting a Savage to the moon !!

I´m thinking of a trannyless MAxx (without the slipper and motorplate and hardware in front of the Gear housing)
That will be possible only with a LRK, the weight and the center of gravity will be reduced greatly !!

tl01boi

04-10-2003, 12:50 AM

what kind of brushless motor and speed controller should i get im looking for a really cheap one with a speed controller that can handle at least 10 cells im not putting it in a tl01 lol in a hpi sport 2 im gunna get a customized 3mm aluminum chassis bottom and upper deck that will be wider to hold 10 cells

tl01boi

04-10-2003, 12:50 AM

k_sw31

04-10-2003, 12:58 AM

Tell you what, I'll do the best I can to answer your question if you redo your posts by seperating your sentenses with periods. :)

tl01boi

04-10-2003, 01:25 AM

what would be a good brushless motor, thats fast and cheap. I want it to handle at least 10 cells, and its going in a hpi sport 2 thanks

Simen123

04-10-2003, 04:50 AM

Well, the Warrior 7018(or 9918) and a Basic 5300 are popular, and pretty fast. My warrior controller has been a bit unstable though, I`ve been losing the brakes/reverse some times..
check www.rumrunnerhobbies (Lehner), they have some information about the system, and they have great customer service(www.finedesignrc.com and lots of other sites have prices on esc`s/motors, but I have only experience with RR..)

tl01boi

04-10-2003, 10:49 AM

thanks for the info i have my eye on the basic 5300, oh yeah and would this thing rip the belts off my hpi sport 2 running on 8 cells?

tc3punk

04-10-2003, 11:49 AM

well, I dont run belts, but I've heard that if you keep it the right tension, the belts will run fine.

:)

Soya v1.1

04-10-2003, 04:30 PM

The belts will be fine, I had a Hacker in my RS4:D

tl01boi

04-10-2003, 06:30 PM

k thats good but i've heard about brushless motors making the cars cogg how do i stop that or how can i

k_sw31

04-10-2003, 08:16 PM

Thanks for using proper punctuation. :)

For a motor I would definatly recommend 5300, its an awesome motor, even on six cells :D Basically, the most you will want to run is 8 cells, and the basic series aren't really designed to handle much more than 8 cells, even though I heard a lot of people being fine on 10 cells :)

For controllers, if you get a warrior, you might need to run a receiver pack, but I am not sure with the updated software. Other wise, your best defense against cogging is to buy a quality controller, such as the hacker master sport. :)

djblock

04-11-2003, 11:16 PM

Anyone know how to pop the can open on a lehner basic motor
Looks like it is glued on maybe screwed. A screw was screwed
a little to far in. Dont want to send it in for a rebuild, lehner takes
to long. I know it has been done before so if you know how its done, please reply

NickDawg18

04-11-2003, 11:18 PM

Will the novak system work in my xxx-t??? is it worth gettin??? how many batteries must i have to run it?

tc3punk

04-12-2003, 12:27 AM

djblock, it's screwed in, and as far as I know, it shouldn't take more than a month to repair it
if it's rumrunnerhobbies, cause it sounds like they're getting alot in stock, so they can advertise in magazines and such like hacker, but doesn't want to have long waiting lists....

nickdawg18, yes, yes, 6-7

if your getting it to race, then good for you..
I'm a little powerhungry (planning on dual 5300's in a 1/8 buggy with 10 cells to each motor:p )
so if you want it to just bash, I'd say go with lehner basic 4200 and warrior, cause it's capable of going up to 12 cells, and would kill the novak if you put the basic on more cells ;)
but if your looking for smoothness, I've heard good from the N.

Drayken S4S

04-12-2003, 08:59 AM

tc3punk, if you're power hungry and have a few more bucks to spend, go get 1920/6 or 1920/7 motors for your dual setup, instead of the 5300's. The 1920's will blow the 5300's away.

RadicalRustler

04-12-2003, 09:16 PM

I might be going dual 5300's in a 1/8th scale savage, but on 9 cells instead on 10 (too close to redline) or dual LRK (Mr. Constructor, can you give me a link to one of the ones good for cars, All the stuff is very confusing on the site) but i am sure it will be a dual setup. Does anyone know how many amps a 1930/5 will pull On 10 cells?

unit_4tec

04-13-2003, 04:35 AM

hey sup all! i got the novak super sport brushless as matter of fact its still in the box lol havnt opened it yet and got it bout 2 days ago. WHY? simple! because i dont have a car yet lol. well i have the evader st but i dont want to put it in that because it might blow up or something. I was thinking about getting the xxx buggy or maybe the new b4 or the b3 factory team but im not sure which one to get yet. ill probably make my decision on friday hehe then ill have a car by next monday to test out my new BL!!! WAHOO!!! :eek: cant wait!

AznJunkie

04-13-2003, 02:01 PM

Hey unit_4tec, I just got my Novak SS too. I'm going to throw it in my Evader. :eek:

I'll tell you how it goes! :p It should be ok. I did beef up my tranny.

AznJunkie

RadicalRustler

04-13-2003, 03:55 PM

Q: How do i put the receiver pack on my warrior? I tried taking out the black jumper, put it back in. Do i just put it on my receiver instead? B/c my batt slot i think is broken

k_sw31

04-13-2003, 07:51 PM

Pull out the black jumper, and plug the pack into the batt slot of your receiver.

RadicalRustler

04-14-2003, 03:28 PM

Yeah, i''l try both. But my test (rx batt in ch 2 the servo moved, batt slot, nothing) and with or without the pack, it still cogged. I'll try throttle in ch1 and batt. in channel2 to see if it stops cogging.

AznJunkie

04-14-2003, 05:28 PM

I just ran the Novak SS. All I can say is nice. It was as fast as my 11t D4 motor. It still had some good torque. Overall I really like it.

unit_4tec

04-14-2003, 07:03 PM

aww i wish i could test mine out but i cant! im waiting to get a xxx buggy i really want one of those or a associated b3. im trying to sell my evader st with alot of parts and a spare team orion core stock motor dyno tuned :D all for a low price of 120 :) heheee. anyways u said u were gunna put it in a evader? :eek: how did it run? does it run longer then the brushed motors?

AznJunkie

04-14-2003, 07:51 PM

I ran it in my evader. Here's some pix of my setup: http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1960276&uid=1046955&members=1

I need to redo the wires. It look nasty. I was in a hurry, so I really didn't care. :rolleyes:

I was just testing, so I didn't run it all the way down. I was out there for 7 mins. I'm running some no name 3000mah pack. Still have some more juice left. I was doing some jumping over speed bumps. So far the evader is holding up, no broken parts yet! :D

AznJunkie

unit_4tec

04-14-2003, 07:58 PM

what kind of connectors are those?

AznJunkie

04-14-2003, 09:49 PM

They are powerpoles. They are just as good as deans, but cheaper.

AznJunkie

Soya v1.1

04-14-2003, 10:24 PM

Yep, gotta love the Powerpoles.

k_sw31

04-15-2003, 01:41 AM

They are too big in my opinion, as long as you buy the bulk packs of deans the price isn't bad. :)

Soya v1.1

04-15-2003, 07:53 AM

Yeah, but I HATE soldering.

RadicalRustler

04-15-2003, 07:58 AM

Cool. If theres no soldering, im making sure to go powerpole. Now how don't you break any parts going off of speed bumps? I can barely go half without risking pody posts. And curbs!!! I am now making a trustler (trike) car, as i have broken a c-hub and don't feel like ordering a part.

AznJunkie

04-15-2003, 09:45 AM

I don’t solder the powerpoles, I just crimp them. So far no problems. They are on the big side, but I don’t mind the size.

These are little speed bumps not those big ones. I don’t hit speed bumps at full speed. I go slow then WOT to get over the speed bump. I have gone full speed on the speed bumps and I have yet to break a part. The evader isn’t as bad as people think. Not mind for that matter. :D

AznJunkie

k_sw31

04-15-2003, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Soya v1.1
Yeah, but I HATE soldering.

I just like it for the fumes ;)

RCmaniac324

04-15-2003, 08:30 PM

Hehe. I kinda like soldering, even though I'm not the best at it.

Anyways, I have a question for you guys. I've remember hearing (I don't remember what page, but I know it was in this thread) that with a Lehner Warrior 7018/ Basic 5300 system that running leads directly from the power in wires on the controller to the battery slot on the controller and disabling the BEC ended ALL cogging. I was wondering, is this perfectly safe??? I would think that once the motor starts drawing 30+Amps of current under throttle that that amount of current would be fed down to the reciever, being connected to the same main power wires, therefore frying my reciever. Am I wrong? I'm just wondering b/c I am in the process of revamping my truck and have the extra harness to do this, and if it will elimintate my cogging problems I will do it while doing everything else.

Thanx in advance.

Soya v1.1

04-15-2003, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by k_sw31
I just like it for the fumes ;)

I use rosin-less solder:cool:

Mr. Constructor

04-16-2003, 12:54 PM

To RadicalRustler

as for the LRK´s , one of the Maxi series (the 2814) should be fine for the Maxx (in direct drive solution)
But if you really plan on the 2 BL setup, the LRK is NOT the solution, the torque will destroy everything and it is not as easy to get these 2 Motors in parallel (much easier in 2 pole BL Motors)

Choose one "torquie" LRK (with direct drive due to the slower RPM and hugher torque) or go with tranny and "normal" BL Motor(s)

(I will try to use the LRK in my MAxx soon, but I have to revise my network totally, this will take some time and I´m building on my new HP (some vid´s there too, soon available)

To RCmaniac324

the Amps are not the problem, as the "Motor wants to have them, he gets them, nothing else"

But you have to be careful with the Voltage, most receivers are not capable of using 7,2 V (or higher) as a standart input
(the new synth. receiver from JR uses this new tchnology)

To AznJunkie

ever had a short cut in a CfK based Car ??

the crimping is not the best way, as the shocks will loose the small silver pin, I´m using these too, great (leoghter than everything else) cons !!
But try this:
Use the electronic solder fluid (special with very high silver compount in it) to solder these pins to the cables, the resistance will be going down, the strebght up and the best:
the internal resistance will go down by 50 % !!!
(and it is sfer for all your electrics in the car, when a shortcut occurs, all electronics could be dead, due to the CjK in the Chassis (or Composite)

To NIC

Please send me a new Mail adress !!
(my old harddrive was totally crashed last weekend (everything gone, had to buy new one)
So I have not received your letters, the Mail in this forum will be renewed.

see ya

AznJunkie

04-16-2003, 01:05 PM

Haven't had that problem yet. I will give the electronic solder fluid a try. Thanks for the info Mr. Constructor! :)

RCmaniac324

04-16-2003, 05:01 PM

Thank you Mr. Constuctor, that's the answer I was looking/hoping for. :) Now to go start putting all my new stuff into my truck and building/reconfiguring my batts......reconfiguring two 6 cell packs to side-by-side configuration and building an 8 cell pack out of loose cells I have hangin around to feed my 5300 all the power it wants to handle a slightly higher gear ratio and send it to ballistic speeds down my street. :D :p

tc3punk

04-16-2003, 05:51 PM

i can't believe you guys are even meantioning* powerpoles:(

powerpoles VOIDs the warrenty on Lehner controllers:rolleyes:

Soya v1.1

04-16-2003, 05:54 PM

I have a Shulze, and I voided the warranty the second day I had it when I drove through a puddle:p

Viper__13

04-16-2003, 06:06 PM

I've always wondered how people get those certifiable RC Zone Addict ratings, I'ts because they keep up with threads like this. 95 PAGES! WILL IT EVER STOP?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?!

k_sw31

04-16-2003, 06:19 PM

and I have been here from the first post :cool:

BTW, at one point the old rc10 GT thread was over 250 pages I beleive...:p

Soya v1.1

04-16-2003, 08:28 PM

You've been here since the second post, crono man started it, I think. I've been here since the third post:cool:

k_sw31

04-16-2003, 10:53 PM

2nd post, 1st post, same thing :rolleyes: ;)

Zero2Sixty

04-16-2003, 10:55 PM

You mentioned powerpoles void the warranty on lehner controlers. Im getting a warrior 7018 controller, will deans plugs void the warranty?

AznJunkie

04-17-2003, 12:03 AM

I think changing the battery connectors voids the warranty.

I got the Novak SS. I don’t think I saw anything that said changing battery connectors will void the warranty. In fact they said if I do change it to change it to something like Deans. :rolleyes:

Zero2Sixty

04-17-2003, 12:05 AM

Also, how would a single 5300 motor with 14 cells run in a E-maxx? Any bit of a speed gain over the titans? It seems so small, the 5300

k_sw31

04-17-2003, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Zero2Sixty
Also, how would a single 5300 motor with 14 cells run in a E-maxx? Any bit of a speed gain over the titans? It seems so small, the 5300

Well, first of all the basic isn't ment for much over 8 cells, but from what I hear a single 5300 is comparable to a stock setup. If you want to run that many cells buy a basic XL 5000 :)

Zero2Sixty

04-17-2003, 12:30 AM

will the basic XL 5000 also fit in a TC3 though? I want to first put the brushless in my TC3 with 7 cells, then once I get some CVDs and other parts, drop it into my maxx with 14 cells.

k_sw31

04-17-2003, 12:59 AM

I'd suggest you just get a basic 5300 for your tc3 and a basic xl for your maxx, and just switch controllers :)

Zero2Sixty

04-17-2003, 01:21 AM

I will do just that. I just ordered my 5300 and warrior. Later on in the year, I will order the XL for the maxx.

k_sw31

04-17-2003, 07:40 PM

Hey, I wanna upgrade from my POS warrior to a better controller. I am using a 5300 (as most of you know) so I am looking at either the schulze 18.61, or the hacker master sport.

Right now I am leaning towards the hacker master sport...that way I wont need to use a receiver pack. :)

What would you guys get?

Soya v1.1

04-17-2003, 08:45 PM

*cough* Shulze *cough* *cough*

;)

tc3punk

04-17-2003, 09:13 PM

uh, I like my 7018 just fine:D

djblock

04-17-2003, 09:15 PM

K_sw31, Personally I would get the hacker sport. Ive got one
and its a great controller, much better than the warrior junk.
You could try the schulze but if something goes wrong your
gonna wish you had a sport. I run the sport with 1920/5 switched
to asterisk and this combo ripps all over my 4200 with warrior
without the heat. Of coarse this is in a xxx4 and t3. I can hit
around 50mph geared where there is no cogging at all, soon
im gonna gear up and let her rip.

Nitro Fans

04-18-2003, 07:50 AM

There is criticism about the magnetless nature of the brushless system. But I must say the driving charactersistic of my YM-34 with Novak system and TB 3 with 9 turns motor behave similarly, making my performance more consistence when I swap between them.:D

JonDax

04-18-2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Soya v1.1
*cough* Shulze *cough* *cough*

;)

Mine works great--but I guess I'm in the minority? I have a Hacker Comp too, and while it seems a lot more robust, it is also A LOT bigger. I would never have been able to shoehorn that thing into my buggy. The schulze barely fits as it is. So far very happy with both Schulze and Hacker.

k_sw31

04-18-2003, 01:17 PM

Well, like I said, I really dont want to have to run a receiver pack, and I not exactly pleased with having to pay 290$ for the 12.97, I'd rather buy a novak setup for that much; so thats why right now the hacker sport is my choice.... :)

Besides, if I can shoe horn an XL-1 in my T3 then I can fit most any esc in there! :p

Soya v1.1

04-18-2003, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by k_sw31
Besides, if I can shoe horn an XL-1 in my T3 then I can fit most any esc in there! :p

True dat, true dat:cool:

metalry101

04-18-2003, 05:08 PM

I'm currently trying to sell most of my stuff so that I can run a BL system in my E-Maxx, but I have a couple questions. I'm pretty sure that the 4200/ 7018 combo is the best for me, espcecially for the price, but since some people say the Warrior is junk, I'm wondering if there are any other controllers that I should consider. Price is a major factor, which is why the combo I listed is so attractive to me. Are there any other setups that I should consider? Also, I've heard great things about Pro-Match batteries, and I've got some of their Sanyo 3000HV's. Any other places I should consider? As w/ the BL system, price is a major concern.

Mr. Constructor

04-18-2003, 05:18 PM

To metalry101

As for a good setup, the Hacker MAXX Motor and the Hacker Comp. ESC is a very good choice (but still cost some money :( )
As with the Warrior, the warrior only starts to cogg with Lehner Motors when used with 6 cells (the cut off voltage is too low !!)
Use a mix of Hacker (maybe B 50 series for Maxx) and the Warrior, that is working great in 2 of my BL Cars.

The Basic 4200 is not very Powerful, it will heat up very fast when used in a "torque needed" application as the MAxx, try the Basic XL or the Mix version.

All other ESC are very expencieve, the schulze and Kontronik ones are the best on the market (and smallest too, schulze also offers a ESC that runs BL AND brushed motors, but at a very high price)

As for the maxx, go with lmt ESC and Hacker motor, you won´t be disappointed !!

To k_sw31

be careful with the Sport version, the sircuit board is a little too small (not that much fets on board)
it easily damages under these heavy loads.
go with the Master Car Comp. (even when it is bigger and more expencieve)

Or choose the LMT warrior 99 Amp version, wich has to be more than enough, I´m driving a 6.5 kg heavy 6th buggy with the 7018 at 18 cells, the esc gets hot, but not too much that you can´t touch it !!

another version could be the awaited Simprop ESC´s, I´ve spoken to the R+D dep. they´re planning the release of several Car software based ESC´s (should be till summer)

k_sw31

04-18-2003, 05:32 PM

Well, I would like to go with a hacker mast comp. but, the money issue comes in, the price is high enough to where I'd just rather buy a novak setup and be done wiht it. Hmmmm, maybe I can get my dad to help finance a comp. because of my recent report card (3.95 gpa should be worth something :D).

metalry101

04-18-2003, 07:11 PM

Hmm, everyone seems to say that the 4200/ 7018 combo kinda sucks. I've chatted w/ someone who runs it, and he claimed 36-38 mph and decent gains in torque and runtime. I like the Hacker motor, but is it really 90 dollars better than the Lehner? Another reason I would like to run this is water. My Maxx sees snow, mud, rain, etc, and I've heard that Lehner controllers can be splashproofed at the factory, which would be nice. So, any idea on how fast the combo you reccomended would push my Maxx to? Lastly, what kind of gearing would I need to run? I want to put the new Hot Bodies tires on my Maxx, and these are much taller (supposedly 7") so I would need to gear down for these, and I've heard that you have to gear way down for BL, so I want to make sure that they make a pinion small enough for that combination of tires and motor.

k_sw31

04-18-2003, 09:23 PM

Well, the basic motors are awesome, in my opinion (although one maybe a little underpowered for a maxx, depends on the cell count), but the warriors aren't exactly the best controllers in the world (hence why I am going for a hacker).

BTW, I have seen an 8 tooth pinion before...I think soya had it :cool:

Soya v1.1

04-18-2003, 10:02 PM

Yep. It's a beast:cool:

RadicalRustler

04-18-2003, 10:02 PM

Nitro Fan, A Brushless motor doesn't have BRUSHES, it has magnets. It also uses neo mags instead of ferrite. Have to get off internet now, can someone else explain?

Soya v1.1

04-18-2003, 10:05 PM

Here's an idea:

Zero2Sixty

04-18-2003, 11:50 PM

Hey, just thinking ahead, what would be better in a maxx, two lehner basic 5300s, a single lehner XL 5000, or a single hacker C50? All on 14 cells.

tl01boi

04-19-2003, 12:31 AM

aww man the track at my lhs doesnt allow brushless motors so ill just stick with my 14 turn motor at 40,000 rpm

tc3punk

04-19-2003, 12:59 AM

zero, since you're already getting a 5300 setup, I'd just buy a second, then switch it in and out for dual in the emaxx:)

k_sw31

04-19-2003, 01:35 AM

Yeah 7 cells a pop for a dual 5300 setup should get up and go :cool:

NIC

04-19-2003, 03:29 AM

To Mr.Constructor:

alfolilian1@bredband.net

Mr. Constructor

04-19-2003, 04:24 AM

To Zero2Sixty

for an E MAXX go with the best Torque of the Motor and you will be flying !!
(these smaller Basics are really powerful, but they are getting slightly hot in this heavy MAXX (if you plan on running lighter parts and a Carbon chassis, then 2 Basics would be a good choice)

As for your Question:
Go with the C 50 !!
(the vent is better due to the greater cm² on the housing and the overall greater size of this motor (with 2 BL you have to be careful when adjusting them to one ESC (or have to use 2 ESC´s, so the C50 and one big esc should be an advanzage in weight and power and easier to handle)
Ask soya, if the truck is powered by 2 ESC or one

To tl01boi

is it only for bashing or for racing ??
(if bashing only around, NOBODY could tell ya wich setup is forbitten (when racing there is a problem with most tracks around the world :( )
But if you plan on the better side go for BL, I think it would take some time to race these Babes but the time is coming soon (I think in the next 2-3 years)
And one major reason for BL :
Awesome punch and speed and power . . . . . :D

see ya

tc3punk

04-19-2003, 09:21 AM

Mr. Constructor, I'm thinking that your emaxx may have problems:confused:

are you running dual?
most people run dual basics as opposed to one large motor, to get a. more run time, b. less heat, and c. more torque...

the only downside that I can think of in dual is space limitations, and more batteries to charge:rolleyes:

oh yeah, zero, with 29/(69 or 72, I can't remember what's stock spur in a tc3:p ), on 6 cells there will be bad cogging...

I'm about to try 12 in with same sutup, as soon as my other batt is charged
I'll keep you informed;)

Zero2Sixty

04-19-2003, 10:06 AM

Nice TC3Punk. I did buy a reciever pack, but first I will try running without it. If the cogging is bad, I will hook it up. If I disable the BEC, I cant re-enable it, right? Its been 3 days, and RRH still hasnt sent me an e-mail saying they shipped :(

Drayken S4S

04-19-2003, 10:38 AM

I agree with tc3punk. A dual motor setup whould be better in every way, except weight, room taken up, and ofcourse, cost. 99% of people looking to go dual, are refering to running dual controllers also, NOT trying to run off of one controller.

Mr. Constructor, I know you are more for a single motor setup, so I will ask this question in terms of performance, per motor, and not as a dual motor setup, lol. :

Which motor do you think would run better, 1920/8 on 8cells, or a 1930/5 on 8cells. Both should run cool, but not sure if the 1930 would be a "wet duck". I am just not sure how much more torque the 1930/5 has, over the 1920/8. The rpm/volt is almost identical, or close enough to make comparisons.

(p.s. I plan to run them dual, lol)

JonDax

04-19-2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by tc3punk

are you running dual?
most people run dual basics as opposed to one large motor, to get a. more run time, b. less heat, and c. more torque...

The c50 has incredible torque! Overall it runs cooler in my Maxx than my 5300 setup does in my xxx4. The only disadvantage I really see with the big single motor setup in my Maxx is that I'm limited as to how low I can gear, because the can is so big it hits the tranny with anything less than 14t. It's also very pretty to look at. :D

tc3punk

04-19-2003, 04:12 PM

drayken, with what I went with, it was actaully cheaper to go duals!

1930/5 and 18120

and I changed and went dual 5300's and 7018's, and got something like $40 back:D

zero, you will LOVE the warrior controllers
I ran 12cells in my tc3, with 29/69 gearing, and NO Rx pack, and it flew!
the controller actually got so hot that the heatshrink shrunk more than it was when it came from RRH, and it got so tight that it actually started to rip!:eek:

but, it kept running fine, and hasn't stopped yet ;)

also, it had pretty bad cogging with that setup, so I changed to 6 cells, Rx pack, and 26/69 gearing, and i could punch from stand still, and it'd light em' up

and it actually was carrying 12 cells, but running off 6 of em
I had lost the connector that I made, until one of the packs was dead, then I found the connector, but just kept running the other pack

oh yeah, I mounted the 2nd 6cell stick pack on the rear bumper/shocktower with zip ties

gl:D

Mr. Constructor

04-19-2003, 04:48 PM

To Drayken S4S

as for the Motor, the torque of the 1930 series is about 10-25 % higher than the 1920 series, if the motor has to have really awesome torque, go with the longest motor can you could put in the MAxx (but be careful, not to overstress the whole drivetrain)
(the RPM and the lenght is the major factor for the Amp drawing (power plus RPM comes to higher amps)
For a Maxx use the 1930 series with the 5 T (should be powerful alone (test one first, then (maybe) order the 2nd motor)
In dual setup, this would be hard to beat !!

To tc3punk

my Maxx is still running on 2x 17 T 540 !! (the brushes are NOT that big problem, drivetime not either, i´ve choosen this setup for the testing of the toughness of the drivetrain, after a few mods, it is still very durable (only cvd´s in the middle I´m searching for . . .)

My Motor will not be connected to the drivetranny via the slipper, it will be a totally different solution, I´ve found some very good adresses maybe these are the Motor manufacturers I´m searching for (LRK Motors)

I do wanna keep the weight low (C.G. etc) and the drivetrain is a little bit too heavy with two motors and the slipper and pinions and so on, so these parts have to went out !!

To JonDax

have you tried the metal gears for the T-Maxx in the E maxx (the ones from Robinson-Racing)
with these you could go almost every gearing imaginable !!
(the modul/pitch of the gears is the same, look at these at your LHS, maybe it will be that "missing Part" ??

tc3punk

04-19-2003, 05:50 PM

BROKE!

snapped BOTH rear aluminum drive shafts on my tc3...

WET asphalt, 26/69, Rx pack, 12 cells, 5300, 7018

did cyclones like none other, it was spinning much faster than the cars in the trilordy vid ;)

luckily, I had bought a ntc3 spool, so with the 200mm arms, I could use the 190mm cvds in the rear

so I had 2 extra 190mm cvds, and 2 extra 200mm cvds...

well, now I just have the extra 200's...

anyone know the url for the one site that sell titanium parts for rc cars?
they had some titanium cvd's for tc3 that I might have to pick up:cool:

RadicalRustler

04-19-2003, 06:29 PM

You put 12 cells on a 5300!! I kinda think that you won't have that one much longer. (10 cells almost touches the rpm limit, so 12 is OVER)

Zero2Sixty

04-19-2003, 06:44 PM

TC3punk, by "both rear almuminum drive shafts" do you mean the CVDs? Also, whoever here got their setups from RumRunnerHobbies, do they ship a few days before they notify you about it? Its been 4 days now since I placed my order, and still no shipping notification. I was hoping to get my TC3 setup BL before my break is over :mad:

tc3punk

04-19-2003, 06:46 PM

lets just say I'm not worried....
these pics I was running 6 cells, cause I lost the 12 cell adapter, but found it shortly afterwards

http://www.brushless.net/~tc3punk/tc31.jpg

http://www.brushless.net/~tc3punk/tc32.jpg

http://www.brushless.net/~tc3punk/tc33.jpg

http://www.brushless.net/~tc3punk/tc34.jpg

http://www.brushless.net/~tc3punk/tc35.jpg
njoi:rolleyes:

PatrickJ

04-19-2003, 07:49 PM

Lehner rpm constants is under load. The reason that the basic
4200 heats up is because it has about the same amount of
torque per amp as a 12t handwound mod but because of the neo magnets it can maintain its higher rpm at higher amp loads. The 5300 no load rev probaly would be simular to a 10t handwound mod. I have the basic 4200 with a 4018 warrior and it cogs even with out load if the throttle is off and I try to give it full throttle afterwards but if the throttle trim on the control is set to rev the motor slowly it works fine with out a reciever pack. My personal opinion on my 4200 is its amazing especially for its size. This motor will out perform the 05 motors easy on 6 cells at least my p94s. I have a touring car that I ran my p94 in sometime back and it ran close to 40 mph on 6 cells with a 5.5 to 1 gear ratio so I can just imagine what my 4200 will do because it is much faster than any 05 I have had or even seen on just 6 cells.

Zero2Sixty

04-19-2003, 08:17 PM

TC3, do you have a rally conversion? Those are some sick pics. Can you get a closeup of the chassis, i need to figure out how im going to lay-out my new system.

tc3punk

04-20-2003, 01:41 AM

i'll try to get some more pics in the near future...
basicly, I have on right side:
motor>Rxpack>servo/rec.
other side is battery with controller ziptied to the batt mount...

I'm trying to talk my mom into getting me a camera soon, so i might be able to get a vid shortly hopefully:rolleyes: :o

also, it's not rally conversion, cause I was afraid that the composite cvd's that come with it would break too easily
and then the stock aluminum ones broke anyways:mad:

it's an onroad kit, and ntc3 steering, HCR TI shock towers, rally bumper, and had SNR tires, but put my onroad tires on, because I didn't think I'd be going offroading (little did I know, it's alot harder to resist than I thought:p )

that's all for tonight...

Mr. Constructor

04-20-2003, 12:15 PM

A small "comparison between the 2240 series from lehner and the "small" b 40 s 7T from hacker (wich is similar to the lehner 1520/7, to whom i will compare the hacker if the project is finished)
look at the size diference (the small is for the 10th truck, the bigger is for the 6th buggy the weight comparison:

125 gr against 480 gr

power:

max. 350 W (more is not usable in 10th)
to the 1500 W of the 2240 !!

price is also a difference, you already guessed it, bur the 2240er is only 2.3 times more the money than the b40s 7T !!
(look at www. torcman.de there you might see thew 685 series, it weights 1600 gr and produces up to 3000 W !!!
(should be enough for a 5th scale monster truck (MCD for exsample . . .)
:D :D :D
(I´m NOT planning on building a 5th yet but this babe is really awesome !!
(pricing too, motor alone is 700 USD !!)

just for fun, these "comparisons"
(I think it is funny to see what could be possible in the electric area)

RCmaniac324

04-20-2003, 12:37 PM

Zero2Sixty- No, you can enable and disable the BEC as many times as you wish...its just a simple process of plugging in or unplugging a tiny jumper... 5 seconds either way.:)

RadicalRustler- I totally agree!!! That motor won't last long under that...:p

tc3punk- Nice car!!! That said, I'd look for another motor that's made for 12 cell runs, b/c the 5300 is only rated for upto 8... maybe a drive-train shattering 19 series is in order???:D :p

All that said, I must put what happened with my truck last night into a long equation:

5lb. truck
+lehner 5300
+first run on 8 cells...ever
+13.1:1 overall gearing
+4.75" diameter tires
+darkness
+tiny bump in road
---------------------------------------
-Absolutely, positively insane speeds for such a truck (probably about 50-60MPH at peak)
-Tire balloonage to about 5.5-6" UNDER LOAD!!!
-Backwards roll when encountering that tiny bump that was unseen b/c of the darkness of night
-Skidding 50 ft. down asphalt on roof
-New hole in roof of body
-Trashed spoiler wing
-2 exploded bearings (dynamite read-seals, no less) within 10 minutes
-Pins used to lock diff tight flying out and warping teeth of an idler gear
-Amazingly cool electronics after 10 minutes of running (when the bearings gave out)
-The want to gear up and see what else I can do while attaining even higher speeds

:D :D :D I'm happy with the power to make things like this easy to do......now to go get 2 replacement bearings so I can gear up three teeth and see what happens. :D :p

tc3punk

04-20-2003, 01:38 PM

why's everyone saying 5300 is only rated 8 cells!?!?

it's 10!
do the math, 10x1.2x5300= right about 65,000

and on 12cells, like I said, I'm not worried

RCmaniac324

04-20-2003, 02:38 PM

tc3punk- Go check every site that sells the 5300. I guarantee every one will say 6-8 cells. Wanna know why? I do agree that 10 cells theoretically is safe, and I've heard of people running 10 cells on it fine and having no problems. But the reason it's only OFFICIALLY rated for 8 cells is because THAT close to the RPM limit (within a few hundered RPM), If put under enough load, even for a short period, it will still throw a mag. And that is the reason why, because they (Lehner) do not want to tell people "6-10 cells" and have to be replacing motors under warranty like mad when people throw mags on 10 cells in their monster trucks... its not a matter of what it is capable of doing under a certain set of conditions, they rate it for ALL conditions the motor may be put under by the consumer, from light cars to heavy monster trucks, from undergearing to overgearing, from cold weather to hot weather, from on road to off road......I think you get the point.

I'm simply going by what THEY say is safe. I have heard many people say they've run it on 10 cells and it is just fine, minus a little extra heat. So, UNOFFICIALLY, yes, using 10 cells runs fine...in MOST cases. I still say that even 2 cells over this UNOFFICIAL limit and 4 over the OFFICIAL limit is not too smart, but it is your choice, for it was your money you spent on it, not mine.

Sorry If I sounded harsh in this, b/c I didn't mean to. Just trying to explain it as best I can while emphasising key points.

tc3punk

04-20-2003, 04:18 PM

ok, I've talked to Donnie from RRH on the phone, and also to another person that works for RRH...

the basic motors can NOT "throw a mag"

the center shaft is one solid piece...

the problem with the motors is the bearings break...

and I've been told by a friend that works for RRH that the basic motors don't have a set "Max RPM"

but they do say 65,000 rpm, because with the warrior controllers, someone could put 18 cells on it and the controller would most definitly fry, and the customer would get a replacement under warenty and try the same thing again. that's why they state 65k rpm.

so yes, I know I'm voiding warrenty, but i'm not worried about the motor dying anytime soon, it's the controller that I'd fear, and as long as I don't run consecutively, and run with excessive heat and too big a pinion, that shouldn't be a prob with the new controllers

so that's why I keep saying "I'm not worried about it";)

Mr. Constructor

04-20-2003, 06:09 PM

To TC3punk:

RCmaniac324 is right, to show what might happen see the pic below, the esc is still intact, working fine, but if i hadn´t looked under it, after a really hot run 9 min full power in a 6th with 18 cells on this 7018, the esc will take the power, no problem, but the casing not, so the shrink was melted !!
(I have to build a heatsink solution around it, to get the temps down (was only around 70 - 80 degr. C, that is not the hottest esc in my Cars !!)
but in this case, the heatsink will not prevent the esc directly, only in 2nd way, as it keeps heat down, AND this will not allow any debris entering my esc when melted down the shrinking (wich you can´t see in first look, like me)
Be careful, the mags will not "explode" but the bearing does, the guys at rrh are right, but have you ever imagined what a small ball (out of this bearing) will have in case of power ??
It´s like a small Bullet, that thing will easily destroy everthing near to it, and then the rotor will destroy the whole tranny (because no holding bearing is there anymore)

This will be done in a few blinks of a second, no chance to stop, your car (and maybe your wallet too esp. if the car hits someone or something) will be not more than trash !!

I do not wanna be the prof. who´s taking his finger "do-not-do-this-and -that", but the possibilty of having such a crash is not that far away as you think, some guys at hacker already destroyed totally the whole modell (OK it was a plane . . . .) but the safety has to go first, if you wanna use the 100 000 RPM mark use the bigger motors that are suited better for these High conditions (like the hacker B 50 or C 50 or the LMT 19xx or higher)

sorr yfor this long post people, but I think safety should alwas go first, a heat exploding ball bearing is nothing to play with, I ve seen these accidents at my local plane fly place !!
(at the beginning of BL, nowadays, the most guys are quite "normalised" the first "hype" is over.

tc3punk

04-20-2003, 08:11 PM

yes, I know all that you said...
and when running 12 cells, without Rxpack, and 29/69 gearing in my tc3, the heatshrink did exactly what yours did!

but now I'm running 26/69, with Rx pack, and only slight cogging

and it stays ALOT cooler

and I'm aware of the bearings exploding and such, I just wanted to get the point across thta the motor it's self won't "throw a magnet", it's the bearings and controllers that you have to worry about...
:rolleyes:

RCmaniac324

04-20-2003, 08:24 PM

Oops... I stand corrected. Sorry about the confusion, you are both right...forgot the basic's mag was one piece... maybe now I will try 10 cells, knowing the only reason they state that RPM limit is the bearings and the added amp draw that comes with adding cells. :D :p

PatrickJ

04-20-2003, 08:29 PM

The basics have a lot of rev doing not steady the 4200 or 5300 that is the loaded rev. A few weeks back I went to use 12 cells on my 4200 and I rev the motor with out load for a less than 5 secs and I held the rev stop and restarted on my motor I think the speed control is what has the limit.

tc3punk

04-20-2003, 08:35 PM

yes, when I first hooked up 12 to the 5300, i couldn't go more than 1/3 throttle without it hitting the limit...

I'm guessing it's around 80-100k?:confused:

RCmaniac324

04-20-2003, 08:40 PM

I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere on RRH that it was 100k

PatrickJ

04-20-2003, 09:40 PM

The lehner instructions show 50k for 4 pole motors and 100k for 2 pole motors but I cannot understand how these motors does rev so high on 12 cells especially the 4200. I was think on going for a bigger lehner summer but the 4200 along damage my boat drive and a more powerful motor would mean more problems for me. It may easy damage my car drivetrain quickly so I will settle with the limited power that the 4200 supply.

tc3punk

04-20-2003, 11:53 PM

zero, email me your name and order info, and next time I talk to donnie (RRH) I'll ask about it

tc3punck@sbcglobal.net is my addy

and I meant it hit limit with wheels off ground (which isn't recomended ;) )

when it's on the ground, it will not hit the limit;)

tc3punk

04-21-2003, 12:35 AM

k_sw31's 5300 T3 on a half dumped 6cell pack (http://www.brushless.net/~tc3punk/k_sw31.wmv)
;)

unit_4tec

04-21-2003, 12:47 AM

so if i go on full throttle with wheels of the ground then what? i dont see why its not recomended. it wont do any harm right?:rolleyes: :D

Zero2Sixty

04-21-2003, 11:29 AM

Thanks TC3Punk, I will drop you an e-mail in a few minutes. Do you have a phone # for them, cause that would help ALOT

crono man

04-21-2003, 04:46 PM

my small review on the novak BL

I finally got a chance to try out the novak today i did some high speed runs up and down a dirt road
my setup;
xxx buggy
6cells sanyo 3000hv cells(top of the line smc cells)
23pinion
82t spur

pros;
the first thing that you notice is the TORQUE!!man this thing pulls like crazy and the top speed is amazing for off-road use!
The second thing that you notice is the smoothness of the throttle its amazing the powerband is more evenly distributed then a brushed motor.I know this sounds redundant but it has ZERO cogging!
the motor stay really cool and the esc got abit hot but i dont think it was near shutdown.(i think i was maybe overgeared)
finally i got about 10min in unlimited mode.

cons;
-well i tried only 1 pack but i had a hard time finding a difference between the "sportsman" mode and the "unlimited" but maybe on a track with more packs i would see a difference

-the esc got abit hot but i think its pretty normal ill try to gear down or bring a temp gun

well thats pretty much it i am VERY happy with the setup, its not equal to 10t motor but its pretty damn fast for off-road use!

Novak has another very satisfied customer
:)

tc3punk

04-21-2003, 04:50 PM

I don't have RRH's phone number, but I do have Donnie's cell phone number...

...which I'm not allowed to give out;)
sry

Speedfreak44D

04-22-2003, 08:56 PM

How much would a 1 turn different in a 1930 affect speed and accleration (sp?)

unit_4tec

04-22-2003, 09:12 PM

is there such thing as a 1 or 2 turn brushed motor??? how would it compare to a brushless :)

k_sw31

04-22-2003, 09:53 PM

The lowest I have ever heard of is a 4 turn. Basically, you need to cut the comm. every 2 runs, replace brushes every 2 runs, runtimes would be extremely short, you could only used a micro switch. It would suck. ;)

k_sw31

04-22-2003, 10:16 PM

Wow. Last night I took an old T3 diff that badly needed rebuilding and just pumped it full of JB weld to make a spooled T3 diff. :D

I just ran it, and this thing wheelies at most any speed (16/87, sorta low gearing), at low speeds it just flips over. :D

Zero2Sixty

04-22-2003, 11:08 PM

I..........Want..............................MY... ......................Motor....................:D lol TC3punk, i will drop you that e-mail now

Speedfreak44D

04-23-2003, 05:20 PM

How much would one turn affect speed and accleration in a 1930 BL motor?

GWF

04-23-2003, 07:51 PM

This is a wonderful thread. I am convinced Brushless is a wonderful option and is only going to get better now that Major RC players like Novak and (soon), Orion are getting into brushless. My interest is in 1/10 scale off road (buggy/Truck) and 4 wd on road sedan.

After 98 pages however one reads episodically about two problems; controller malfunction or self-destruction and cogging.

Many of you have had speed controllers that self-destructed or malfunctioned. Are these speed controllers poorly designed or are they being abused? (High cell counts and high amp speed runs....) Who of you have had speed controllers that have not had these problems?

I’ve read the problems with the Hacker controls and with Lehner warrior controls. Do the Aveox and Schultze burn up or have problems if they are not removed.

It seems as though cogging is mostly a problem for most controllers as one takes off from a stop. Can this be eliminated entirely if one gears down fairly low? Is there anyone who had not had cogging at low RPM?

Thanks in advance for the information. - Gary

tc3punk

04-23-2003, 08:24 PM

speed, if you mean a 1930/1, then that's imposible...
if you mean like whats' the difference between 1930/5 and a 1930/6, then I don't know:rolleyes:
sry

GWF,
Donnie convinced me that it's mostly user error, and I havn't had any problems with my warrior controller running 12 cells and a 5300 motor...
it's around 500:1
500 misused/abused controllers to 1 impropperly assembled controller...

like I've said I had big cogging, and it was more than cut in half (almost gone completely) when I went from 29/69 to 26/69...
so I imagine 20/69 will be perfect, if not even a little low...

all controllers have a possibility of going up in smoke, and some just seem to be lucky...

Drayken S4S

04-23-2003, 08:36 PM

I ran 17/70 gearing in a Maxx, with a 18120 controller, and 1930/8 motor. With 12cells, it cogged just a little bit in second gear, at takeoff. Nothing at all to worry about. On 14 cells, it had ZERO cogging, at any speed, in 1st or 2nd gear.

I think alot of the cogging is also due to the BEC. Seems to me, that many more cogging issue come up, when people are trying to use the BEC, and not using a receiver pack.

RadicalRustler

04-23-2003, 08:44 PM

Good for you GWF, You read all 98 pages!!!!!!!!! I think you are one of the few newer bl thread members to actually read it. Did you like the fishies?:p

I noticed that a switch from 18/84 to 16/84 reduced cogging, increased speed (barely) and reduced temp. i have a 7018 and 5300 so i new it would cogg. have receiver pack, but need y harness to use it.

Zero2Sixty

04-23-2003, 11:21 PM

TC3PUNK, did you get my e-mail? Any update? Also, i bought a 5-cell reciever pack, could I get away with four cells? I was thinking of cutting a slot in my foam bumber for the RX pack, but with a 4-cell one I could just fit it under the speed control

k_sw31

04-23-2003, 11:41 PM

I got by fine with 4 alkalines for a rx pack. But, I dont want to have to run a receiver pack!

GWF

04-23-2003, 11:56 PM

Radical Rustler - You mentioned the "Y" harness for BEC current. I was using the novak XXL which Novak says will operate on a "3 to 10" volt input. I don't see why it wouldn't be ok to simply hook the receiver directly to the 6 cell pack.

I've since changed to the X-tra and haven't found out yet what it"s operating voltage range is.

Most of the brushless users seem to be using more cells than my application and so it's difficult to interpolate whether I can apply their cogging results to my 6 cell racing.

I want to go brushless, I have the money, I vacilate between wanting the power of an 8 turn hand-wound brushed versus the novak system to simply give longer practice times, and admit that even after reading through these 98 pages, I'm still undecided. I'd like to be able to race with it and controlability is a major issue.

Thanks for your information.

Gary

k_sw31

04-23-2003, 11:58 PM

One thing a lot of people seem to overlook it that ni-mhs and ni-cads have an average voltage rating of 1.2 volts, but a fully peaked pack will have similar voltage to a pack of alkalines...I beleive.

Otherwise just slap me and call me stupid. ;)

crono man

04-24-2003, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by GWF
This is a wonderful thread. I am convinced Brushless is a wonderful option and is only going to get better now that Major RC players like Novak and (soon), Orion are getting into brushless. My interest is in 1/10 scale off road (buggy/Truck) and 4 wd on road sedan.

After 98 pages however one reads episodically about two problems; controller malfunction or self-destruction and cogging.

Many of you have had speed controllers that self-destructed or malfunctioned. Are these speed controllers poorly designed or are they being abused? (High cell counts and high amp speed runs....) Who of you have had speed controllers that have not had these problems?

I’ve read the problems with the Hacker controls and with Lehner warrior controls. Do the Aveox and Schultze burn up or have problems if they are not removed.

It seems as though cogging is mostly a problem for most controllers as one takes off from a stop. Can this be eliminated entirely if one gears down fairly low? Is there anyone who had not had cogging at low RPM?

Thanks in advance for the information. - Gary

if youre into 6-7cell off-road buggy and you want zero cogging then go with the novak you wont be disapointed!

Maverick Racer

04-24-2003, 12:55 AM

I am posting this as one of my responses in a dicussion that Crono and I were having on B/L versus brushed.

Your right I will not need my singles doubles and tripples, but I will need my 6's 7's 8's 9's.

I have tried the novak in a touring car. The novak is as smooth as a Brushless motor but it only is about as good as a 12-13 for acceleration.

It will wind out about that of a 10 because that it what it is supposed to be mimicing.

Neodymium and Cobalt magnets are the only magnets that are used in the brushless that I am aware of. Yes it will be fine for 7.2v but **** start not working right when you run it off of 4.8, its just to low to even be competitive. If you dont belive me try it out yourself.

Your right in the sense that with stonger magnets sometimes you will get better power and acalleration, but it works both ways. In dragsters they need motors with Neodymium and Cobalt magnets because the coils overpower the perminant field gererated by the magnets. They would rapidly demagnitise the ferrite magnets. It you run two low of a voltiage with to much magnet gauss you will overpower the coil field. Please dont think that this is some crackpot therory of mine. This is nothing but fact.

A good 8 in my motor box will spin up at about 165watts and spin at 32,000 rpm @ 4 volts

Novaks data shows that @ 4 volts their motor will spin up to 23,200 rpm. And at 6 volts their motor puts out 196 watts at 4 volts that would equal about 130 +/-

Bare in mind that the novak is designed to run at the speed of a 10t, but even their numbers are a little off to be running with a good 10 turn.

Show me some evidence, not other peoples opinion and mag reviews, but hard numbers that stand up to a good brushed motor. Then I will agree with you. I have no reason not to go to brushless if it is faster, I'm out there to win. We have a few left in our shop, but right now brushless is only going to slow me or any other racer down.

Maverick Racer

04-24-2003, 01:11 AM

Patrick Wrote:
"Maverick I own two p94 I have a 15t and a 12t if you run one of these on 8 or 10 cells they would be more powerful than a 7 or 8turn. Well I ran 10 cells on my 12turn p94 I burnt up 4 cells in one of my runs on 10 cells, I will compare that to my lehner basic 4200, on 6 cells I am getting that same speed which I got on 10 cells with my 12turn p94 when it was brand new with 20+ degrees of timing. The p94 was very hot and the lehner runs cool with a simular setup. On 6 and 7 cells the p94 was much slower than it did on 10 cells. In my opinion once the brushless is setup with a good speed control and a high speed gearing they is no chance for the brush motor. The hacker c40, the aveox rc7 and the lehner basics, 1920's and 1530's can produce a lot of torque will will damage 05's and they are more efficient and the higher ampage than the 05's which means they are more powerful than the 05's on just 6 cells."

I dont doubt anything that you said, but I am not compairing an out of the box mod to brushless. I am compairing one of my race motors. And let me clarify. The motors that I am using are not somthing that you can buy, unless you know Andrew or Dave Kisby and can get them to custom wind motors for you. If you can then you know what a real race preped mod feels like, I doubt that you do. If I were to switch to brushless I would need a system that would be better than what I have now. Nothing out there has done that yet. Your P-94's will get hot. You probably dont know but Jim Dieter (sp?) does not used off the shelf p-94 brushes. They use a P-94 brush and narrow the face so that it is the width of a std standup brush. Why? Because the P-94 brush is to wide. Dont believe me, next time you at the nats, or worlds, or snowbirds talk to him and ask him about it.

Most all brushless motors come max out from the factory, that is no where near the case for brushed motors. A lot of the reasons that people find there brushless to be that much faster is because they have no idea how to make a brushed motor go fast. And there is a lot more to it than buying the right springs, and brushes. The right arm, the right wire, hell most people have no idea how to set the dynamic timing on an electric motor. In your case B/L might be the best way to go, because of a lack of motor knowledge, but that does not mean that it is faster. Just for your situation it is better.

Edit: after reading what I wrote I realized that this might come off a little to harsh, I'm to lazy to reword it, but to let you know I am in no way trying to attack you. :)

bikin_boy

04-24-2003, 02:59 AM

yeah i just saw this thread and noticed that theres a few pages....

crono man

04-24-2003, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Maverick Racer
Patrick Wrote:
"Maverick I own two p94 I have a 15t and a 12t if you run one of these on 8 or 10 cells they would be more powerful than a 7 or 8turn. Well I ran 10 cells on my 12turn p94 I burnt up 4 cells in one of my runs on 10 cells, I will compare that to my lehner basic 4200, on 6 cells I am getting that same speed which I got on 10 cells with my 12turn p94 when it was brand new with 20+ degrees of timing. The p94 was very hot and the lehner runs cool with a simular setup. On 6 and 7 cells the p94 was much slower than it did on 10 cells. In my opinion once the brushless is setup with a good speed control and a high speed gearing they is no chance for the brush motor. The hacker c40, the aveox rc7 and the lehner basics, 1920's and 1530's can produce a lot of torque will will damage 05's and they are more efficient and the higher ampage than the 05's which means they are more powerful than the 05's on just 6 cells."

I dont doubt anything that you said, but I am not compairing an out of the box mod to brushless. I am compairing one of my race motors. And let me clarify. The motors that I am using are not somthing that you can buy, unless you know Andrew or Dave Kisby and can get them to custom wind motors for you. If you can then you know what a real race preped mod feels like, I doubt that you do. If I were to switch to brushless I would need a system that would be better than what I have now. Nothing out there has done that yet. Your P-94's will get hot. You probably dont know but Jim Dieter (sp?) does not used off the shelf p-94 brushes. They use a P-94 brush and narrow the face so that it is the width of a std standup brush. Why? Because the P-94 brush is to wide. Dont believe me, next time you at the nats, or worlds, or snowbirds talk to him and ask him about it.

Most all brushless motors come max out from the factory, that is no where near the case for brushed motors. A lot of the reasons that people find there brushless to be that much faster is because they have no idea how to make a brushed motor go fast. And there is a lot more to it than buying the right springs, and brushes. The right arm, the right wire, hell most people have no idea how to set the dynamic timing on an electric motor. In your case B/L might be the best way to go, because of a lack of motor knowledge, but that does not mean that it is faster. Just for your situation it is better.

Edit: after reading what I wrote I realized that this might come off a little to harsh, I'm to lazy to reword it, but to let you know I am in no way trying to attack you. :)

maverick i will be the first one to admit that for pure very high profile racing(national and ifmar) brushless is not there yet but not because it lacks power but because

1-in high mod racing you need something that equals at least a 9-10t motor(ill use mod touring as example as it is the most popular category right now)the only motors that can come close are the lenher motors

2-SMALL CONTROLLER--the novak has a small controller(not as small as a gt7) but does not have the power of a 9-10t motor its like a 12t

3-ZERO COGGING--again here the novaks dominate if you use only 6cells

problems is with brushless motors is NONE of the motors out today fit all 3 creteria that are listed below...yet
-small controller
and
-high power
and
-zero cogging

these 3 features are all necessary for the pro driver,the only system that i know of that will fit all l these criterias at the same time is the novak "pro" version bl setup.

On that point youre are right maverick a novak gt7 with a Ti motor are hard to beat for weight and power..

BUT:D

you say that custom tuned brushed motor is hard to beat, that may be so when compared to other brushed motors but not to the lower turned bl high power motors like lehner motor, and this is not by mag review its by personnal experience!
you also seem to think that in order for a motor to deliver great power is it has to be tuned and pampered ALOT that maybe the case with brushed motor because they are more mechanical but a bl motor can come out of the factory already at almost 100% output!

does that mean that the bl motor is weaker because it does not need to be pampered or tweaked?..imo NO because like i said before bl motors dont need all that tuning to get serious power!its a different animal then the brushed motor.

Now for your application and the high level 4cell racing that you demand THEN yes i do think that youre better off with a brushed setup.
its just a personnal thing but most of us here got fed up with having 3or4 motors so that one of them is always "fresh" for racing while you practice with a other one!..for me personnaly its just not worth it!(and yes i do race in off-road mod when the club lets me run with them with my bl motor)

bl motors havent won you over yet but i think youll come over the darkside soon enough!(i will give you till the end of the year;) :D

PatrickJ

04-24-2003, 11:58 AM

Maverick I used to argue against brushless and the exotic magnet brush motors for the 6 cell classes. I personal say a d4 outperform a plettenburg with 10 cells on the d4 to about 8 or 12 on the plettenburg, I knew of a case where a d4 bet a aveox 1409 running 12 cells in each car. I personal experimented with 05's to get maximum performance on 6 cells, I ran people using 12 cells in small boats while running 6 cells. I always managed to tune my 05's to be much faster than out of the box. The 05's always appeared to be slow out of the box and when I was finished with them I though they were the best. I know better now lehner's all the way the aveox may not get the job done the novak's may not get the job done but I know the lehner will can get the job done. A tuned out of the box 05 on 7 or 8 should put out more power than your tuned 05.

RCmaniac324

04-24-2003, 12:04 PM

I agree with crono... I myself have no track to race at, I just bash, but there is a noticeable difference in power and throttle control going from brushed to brushless. There's more power, more speed, slightly rougher throttle control (due to cogging, but with a smooth throttle finger and the right setup, it's not too noticeable), and is more adaptable to the conditions. For example, b/c of the way they are designed, they can take high cell counts with no sweat and nearly no extra heat if set up right, where as a brushed motor will run VERY hot when run over at most 7 cells. Trust me, I ran 10 cells on a 12t once and ended up with a deformed endbell and therefore a killed motor. I now run 8 cells on my Basic 5300 when I feel the need for speed, and there is no noticeable difference in heat of the motor, and the controller gets a little hotter, all the while knocking the socks off of every setup I've run to date.

For those looking for insane cell counts and, therefore, insane speed and torque, BL is the way to go. No brushed motor can beat even a small Bl motor. I mean, a small Lehner 10 series motor, which is maybe the size of your thumb from the knuckle to the tip and a little thicker, still has the torque or two or three mod motors: a reported 300-450 Watts!!! And at that power it has a rev limit of 100,000RPM before you risk damage!!! No brushed motor would run cool and efficient at that speed, and I highly doubt that if one could even REACH that type of speed that it wouldn't last past it's first few minutes of running.

I myself am planning on possibly getting a 1/12 pan car, sticking 10 AA cells in it and running one of those lehner 10 series motors and a PICO controller and go for the speed record. :D :p I just need the money to buy all the stuff. :D :p

So, yea. I agree, BL is the way of the future, and they are better in my opinion.:)

Mr. Constructor

04-24-2003, 12:33 PM

I think the last conclusion is right at all, I´ve found out (at my bench testing) that in a small 12th or 10th sedan or pan car with 6 cells, a Brushed motor is the way to go, because of money and easier way of getting small Bl´s mounted, the power is well enough for all moments, but if the Car ´s weight rises the power got in the first rank (and so do torque and weight and heat) the a BL is clearly the better way.
Most of my Cars are Brushed Cars (up to 10th 4 wd Buggy) and only my bigger cars really get the advantage of BL Electronics, because they´re not driveable with Brushed Motors (even the bigger Graupner ones)

if you wanna built your own 8th or bigger car, BL is the way, if only for 10th sedan, the power of these Motors is not effectively used (see the many over geared and over powered ones, that melt shrink or anything else)
A 8th Car needs the power and is able to get it on the ground without damaging any parts !!

The BL Motors are very fragile when handling the power and dialing them to the car, that is the reason, why every Car that has to be BL gets a totally suited Motor for ONLY this one and only use, thats the reason why I´m not having any trouble with big cogging (only on still stand drive off, but that is system internal) or melted drivetrains or anything else beeing greatly damaged (only my esc shrink got off some time OK, but ESC was not that hot only 80 ° C)
and the speeds are that high too, and having a drivetime with a 6.5 kg buggy at around 9-10 min is really good.
So the right motor choice (and then gearing) is the major factor in this BL technic.

It´s not that easy to only get a 5300 (or anything comparable) and put it in and then drive like hell, these Motors are like LADYS, they wanna be treated with caution and a good hand !!

So have your fun with these really powerful LADYS (Super girls ???

;) (just joking, but the fact is that it is not easy all the way (wich some people might say yes to me . . . .those who had "some" trouble)

See ya all

Who wanna be the first entering the 100th page ????

PatrickJ

04-24-2003, 01:05 PM

Also the multiple 05's and the special wound arms along with the electronic speed control will cost more than a lehner basic with warrior combo it may not be the smoothest setup but it can certainly give a lot of speed and one motor will run consistently with out the hassel of truning coms or changing motors, change the pack and go. Much more time to play and more consistent high performance runs.

Mr. Constructor

04-24-2003, 03:22 PM

There is a way to eliminate cogging to a minimum (of only 1-2 % of the whole throttle way):

Use the LRK technology, the torque is 5-7 times higher than any 2 pole BL but the RPM is at least the same amount lower, so only a direct replacement of the tranny AND the Motor will be the key to a very excellent drivetrain with a slightly better ratio of over 95 % compared to the max. 92,5 % of 2 pole Motor design (readable at University of Darmstadt in a Tech file)

Also the prices come in priority, most said, that BL is too exp. (even the quite low cost LMT Basic and Warrior Combo) these LRK Motors are 2nd-3th the price of a similar Motor WITH Gearing already installed (some MAxxon drives for ex.)
Maxxon equipped Hacker B 50 S (or higher) is around 300 USD and a similar equipped Torcman for ex. is around 160 USD !! (smae power and rpm but LESS weight AND size!!

I think that these Motor technic will be great for the Truck szene (esp.for the E Maxx, it´s the best Truck for this solution)

I will try this out in a E Maxx soon, it was not easy to figure out the best motor or this truck, because the "normal" parameters of RPM / Volt or Amp or amp load are not the same in LRK technology, the BEST thing at the end:

You can build your own LRK BL Motor for only a fraction of the cost of a new one, the manufacturer sells Kits too !!
(and the explanation is also in the Kit !!)

Take a short look at these Motors, 48 mm long 42 mm diameter, weighting 235gr and having power up to 900 W !! (while having torque that exceeds the 2 pole BL by factor 7 !!)

The bigger Can on the right is for a VERy high power model That produces up to 3000 W (might be 4000 W when geared right) and weighting 1600 gr
(sorry in metric sizes only, haven´t had the time to convert it)

tc3punk

04-24-2003, 04:49 PM

woah mr. constructor!

7x the power of a basic?!?

is there a site to order this stuff from?

oh yeah, I would like to be the first to post on the 100th page:p

Soya v1.1

04-24-2003, 04:52 PM

Beasty:)
No, me first!

tc3punk

04-24-2003, 04:54 PM

*[spam]*

tc3punk

04-24-2003, 05:07 PM

http://www.brushless.net/~tc3punk/death.JPG

for the full story of the Moep's good-truck-gone-bad, go here:
Maxxtraxx>BL>moeps' money pit... (http://216.22.104.127/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=25;t=32084;st=0)

:(

Drayken S4S

04-24-2003, 06:21 PM

There is a HUGE difference between "speed" and "track speed". For "speed", there is no way the hand wound brushed motor can outperform a brushless. (A brushless that is setup right!) Plus, it would depend on how many cells you are allowing.

For "track speed". I tend to agree. The brushed motor will be better, when all factors are measured. Especially if you are running 6cells only. But one thing that has been forgotten, in the past page or so. That hand wound motor that you are talking about, how much time you spending on it? How much money are you spending on it? cutting the comm, brushes, armatures, etc...

Some people rather get the BL, even if it is slightly slower than your hand wound, on 6cells. So they can spend that extra time running.

Soya v1.1

04-24-2003, 07:07 PM

Man, that has GOT to suck:eek:

Maverick Racer

04-24-2003, 07:13 PM

Well then the conclusion that I will draw is that we are both right.
Brushless will probably be the wave of the future, but how long is hard to tell. In my oval car I have a hard time fitting a LRP Quantem in it. Anything much bigger will through off the weight a considerable ammount because I will have to place it somewhere else.

Here is a link to a pick of my car this will tell you how crowded it realy is.
http://www.jphracing.com/Page.cfm?InfoID=2711
http://www.jphracing.com/Page.cfm?InfoID=2709

I spend no money on my motors, just my time.

crono man

04-24-2003, 08:21 PM

i got to the 100 pages first hoooooo!:D :D

Zero2Sixty

04-24-2003, 09:01 PM

crono, o no you didn't!

Zero2Sixty

04-24-2003, 09:02 PM

I just painted three bodies for my TC3, i installed my new servo and radio, built my batts, all I need now is my fricken order from RRH.

tc3punk

04-24-2003, 09:07 PM

comeon onehundred...:rolleyes:

tc3punk

04-24-2003, 09:09 PM

zero, you don't know what it's like to wait!

my mom wouldn't give me the $500 that she had borrowed for over 7 months!:mad:

Soya v1.1

04-24-2003, 09:18 PM

Here's yet another BL creation from yours truly. A FWD RS4 Rally. I'm planning on running 12 cells also, so I'll let you know when the wheelspin stops:D

Soya v1.1

04-24-2003, 09:21 PM

Here's a front shot. I had to get a little, uh, creative with the servo mounting. Works good though. Can't wait to run it, all I need is a servo lead extension.

egdinger

04-24-2003, 09:40 PM

what would be a good fairly inexpensive brushless motor for a stafium and a monster truck. botha re traxxas, if these cars can't handle the power please tell me.

egdinger

04-24-2003, 09:41 PM

also can you put a dual brushless setup in a clodbuster. anybody done it?

GWF

04-24-2003, 09:43 PM

For those of us who are 6 cell off and on road racers, rather than bashers, the qualities we are looking for is so very different than that of either "bashers" or those looking for high speed runs.

I agree with Draken - For 6 cell off and on road racers who are talented talented enough to use the 7-9 turn motors, it seems that the value of the Brushless system at present is that we can show up to a new track and practice all day with a brushless system to get the track and car set-up correct and then switch to brushed for the last few practice laps and for the actual competition races.

For the rest of us 6 cell off and on road racers who are not really talented enough to use the power of 7-9 turns; who actually can only USE the 12 turn or so, then the value of a system such as the Novak definitely INCREASES. Now we can practice for long periods and race with the same motor.

It seems that for the second application, the Novak system has the advantage for the moment....? Perhaps Novak had this in mind when they designed the system. Perhaps they wanted to cater to the majority of racers for whom the "12 turn" level of power of the Novak Super Sport would be what they could use.

Gary

tc3punk

04-24-2003, 09:47 PM

100!!!!:D

tc3punk

04-24-2003, 09:49 PM

lol, 1 off:p

Soya v1.1

04-24-2003, 10:19 PM

tc3punk

04-24-2003, 10:25 PM

sorry, but I realized that the boards are set for 25 posts per page...

so 22497 posts later, I'll let you take the 1,000 page mark:p

Drayken S4S

04-24-2003, 10:55 PM

Perhaps they wanted to cater to the majority of racers

I think you hit it on the head! Novak released a product, all be it LATE, that the majority of racers and bashers could "use". Especially at their good price, think of all the novice racers that went out and bought the Novak BL, just to have no maintenance. Most of them probably can't even handle a 10t on a track. I know I couldn't for a long time. Novak shot for reliable, and trouble free, WITH some speed, maybe not 7t speed, but still fast. 90% of the mod racers at our track don't even run with turns lower than 10, since our track is shorter, they want more torque.

A comment about "handling" that kind of speed. My one friend, his second season, raced in stock and mod class. He used a 10t for mod, and P2K for stock. His stock lap times averaged out faster, lol. Get my point?

Oh, tc3punk, could you please email me, I have a question for you. drayken@socks4shocks.com

Thanks.

crono man

04-24-2003, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by GWF
For those of us who are 6 cell off and on road racers, rather than bashers, the qualities we are looking for is so very different than that of either "bashers" or those looking for high speed runs.

I agree with Draken - For 6 cell off and on road racers who are talented talented enough to use the 7-9 turn motors, it seems that the value of the Brushless system at present is that we can show up to a new track and practice all day with a brushless system to get the track and car set-up correct and then switch to brushed for the last few practice laps and for the actual competition races.

For the rest of us 6 cell off and on road racers who are not really talented enough to use the power of 7-9 turns; who actually can only USE the 12 turn or so, then the value of a system such as the Novak definitely INCREASES. Now we can practice for long periods and race with the same motor.

It seems that for the second application, the Novak system has the advantage for the moment....? Perhaps Novak had this in mind when they designed the system. Perhaps they wanted to cater to the majority of racers for whom the "12 turn" level of power of the Novak Super Sport would be what they could use.

Gary

i fit exactly that profile!!i race 2wd buggy mod and i can tell you that there is a BIG majority that dont go down below 11t for 2wd and truck off-road at my race track!
i tell you guys just being able to pratice all day long and race in the evening with the same motor is FANTASTIC!!
i love my novak, best purchase i ever made in my 13years of rc'ing!!

GWF

04-25-2003, 01:27 AM

Crono Man - I fit that profile also. I am talented enough for a 12 turn, but I'm simply not good enough to use the extra power of a 7-8-9 turn in off road racing, especially when the high-bite track turns dusty.

I am equally tired of spending so much time getting all my brushed motors ready, cleaning, cutting comms, dyno-ing, breaking in, etc. I look forward to just taking the car off the shelf, putting a battery in it, and driving the track without being distracted by maintenance concerns.

I appreciate the tremendous amount of input from so many different types of brushless users on this forum. For now, I'm staying with 1/10 buggy / Truck and 4 wd sedan and so I ordered a Novak SS today.

However, my local club is getting more individuals interested in the T/E Maxxes and so at some point, perhaps I'll get one of these and need the more powerful systems I've read about in this forum.

Gary

Soya v1.1

04-25-2003, 07:51 AM

Maybe my post didn't show up:(

Zero2Sixty

04-25-2003, 12:41 PM

im running out of things to do to pass the time. Ive painted 4 bodies, built 2 new batt packs, installed all the new parts into my TC3, re-built the diffs in my TC3 and T3, took apart my E-Maxx for a cleaning, cycled some of my old batts. I think i ran out of things to do. Hurry up Donnie!!!! :p

tc3punk

04-25-2003, 05:31 PM

zippo tricks (http://www.zippotricks.com) :o

tc3punk

04-25-2003, 08:07 PM

anyone else having problems breaking aluminum drive shafts in the tc3

or any other touring car for that matter?

I just snapped my 3rd since I got the setup running about a week ago:mad:

basic 5300 fyi:rolleyes:

Zero2Sixty

04-25-2003, 11:30 PM

Oh well, i found something to do :( :( :( my comp had a virus infecting over 300 files, fixing that was how i passed the time :( :( any update TC3 punk?

k_sw31

04-25-2003, 11:50 PM

Zero2Sixty- A great way to pass time (if you have broad band) is to download huge files off of kazaa, right now I have 18 episodes of south park (each around 50,000 kbs) a few other shows, shrek, and monty python and the holy grail. (those last two were each around 3/4 of a gig!) :D

Zero2Sixty

04-26-2003, 12:31 AM

great way to pass time (if you have broad band) is to download huge files off of kazaa Yea, thats probably how i got the stupid virus in the first place.

k_sw31

04-26-2003, 12:50 AM

Two things: Lavasoft's adaware and Norton anti-virus. :D

Soya v1.1

04-26-2003, 10:03 AM

I download full computer games. I've downloaded Max Payne, No One Live Forever 2, Carmageddon 2, GTA 3, Quake 3, Insane, and lots more.

k_sw31

04-26-2003, 01:54 PM

all the GTA3s I have downloaded end up being some other game. :(

Beleive me I have tried a lot :p Aw well, I think my friend got a good one. :)

Simen123

04-26-2003, 04:05 PM

I usually download divx movies when I don`t have anything to do. I think I`ve downloaded about 40 divx movies :)

Oh,
I got my Hacker C40-6T motor some days ago :D I was very eager to try it, so I ran it on my 7018esc(that has worked quite well(means not overheated) on my basic 4200). I geared my xxx-s 6.099(my basic was 5.04 or something), and it still accelerated at the end of the straightaway. I was so happy with the speed of the motor, so I forgot that the hard gearing would cause the motor/esc to get extra hot..
All of a sudden my car stopped at the start of the straight, and when I took off they body, the shrinkwrap on the esc hade completely melted.. Some of the small pieces on the esc even had unsoldered themselves.. The motor wasn`t that hot :)
Does anyone have any experience with repairing Lehner controllers?
And, has anyone had any experince on the lehner 18120 bec car esc? I`ll be using it on 6 cells, without a rx pack(if it will operate smoothly without one)

Mr. Constructor

04-26-2003, 05:39 PM

To Simen123

under normal circumstances, the esc should do the job very well, but this gearing is a killer to EVERY ESC !!
go down to 8:1 or even lower (to 11:1)
This Motor does produce really MORE Power than the Basic series, the esc cannot be repaired by yourself (if you´re not familiar with exact codes and getting the replacement FET´s and solder them in SMD / SMC way on your bord, you will need some very good and small tools to get this thing done, normally you should have send it in for repair, that is the bad thing, but maybe you´ve had luck, try the esc in the "normal "v gearing (11:1) and try it with 6 cells, these motors will rev that hight, a cell number of over 10 is NOT recommended, that will easily destroy the esc due to excessive HEAT BUILDUP !!
Maybe your shrink wrap only damaged, but not the circuits themselve, but be careful not to touch the FET´s, because you´re not earthed, the small electric flux in your fingers could destroy the FET´s !!

After all, if these parts really look that they´re burned out, send the esc in for repair (esp. if inside the warranty time)

I cannot believe it, that so many people destroy these (and others too) really good and powerful enough esc (I use this one in a 6th 1500 W Buggy, and did not destroy ANY thing !!)

So I have to beg to you out there PLEASE start with a LOW gearing (12:1 at the start) and then go slightly up, till the run times go down !!

The BL technology cannot solve every "speed only" Problem, thats not their origin design !!

Your wallet will thank it to you !!
(and time too, not waiting for esc´s to be replaced, you could drive really fast with BL but it has to be suited (geared etc. ) to the Car like 2000 USD clothes !!
(it´s a little more difficult than normal motors, because the powers that are beeing delivered are that much higher (comp. 10 T at full load (accleration Very Hard) around 80 A peak, in BL peaks of around 200 A is not that far away (in 12 cell or more systems with up to 1500 W power !!)

Simen123

04-27-2003, 05:04 AM

Well, I only run my touring car on 6 cells. And this is a large outdoor track, and the 12T guys run around 6.1 I believe. But, the next time I run my motor, I can assure you I will gear it higher(in ratio) :) I couldn`t imagine that the difference between my 4200 and this motor would be that big(geared the 4200 5.0 and very little heat development).

Two small pieces on the uderside had unsoldered(I have them in a little plastic bag), and one of the larger "black pieces"(with 4 "tabs" on each side) had moved a bit. But they all seem to be in good shap(not broken or burnt). I guess I could try to solder them on, and if I it won`t work again, then I`ll send it in for repair.
Do you have any experience with service for these controllers? I`ve heard that it takes quite some time..

OptimaMan: How is it going with the motors/esc you ordered? And, how was heat-development on your 12.97 with the C40-6T when not overgearing(like i did.. :( )?

Mr. Constructor

04-27-2003, 05:31 AM

To simen123
(you could try the function first, but the ESC may fail under another sircumstance, weeks later because it IS Damaged !!)

I think that you should NOT try to resolder anything on that circuit board, due to the extreme complexitiy of these small FETs ("black pieces"(with 4 "tabs" on each side)) .
You´ll need some good SMD solder tools and do not overheat them, this is very critical, even if you have had the replacement FET´s (resoldering is not possible, the Gate inside the FET is broken, you´ll need new ones !!
Do yourself a favor and send it in (even if it takes some time !!)
And gear the car around 8:1 for the first try, speed should be great enough, but motor and batteries (and the ESC off course ;) ) are in low Heat condition !!

Hope that this ESC will be back soon, that you´re driving around soon too !!

See ya

herbalist

04-27-2003, 11:59 AM

Greetings

I've just purchased a set of brushless system(Proabably the first one for car use in my place):
Hacker C40-8S
HackerMaster Car competetion

I have some questions about placing and setting
Hope u guys can help me!!

1. My initially test is to put the system on my TRF 414M with 6-cell configuration. Can anybody suggest the proper gearing as a start point? And, is there any one can share the experience of the proper place to put the ESC in the car cuase' it's so BIG!!

2. I wan't to test some extreme test of the BL system. The test
car will be XRAY with 8 to 10 cells setting. Again I need your experience of gear setting and any other things I need to care about the high power situation.

Thanks very much!!!!

Mr. Constructor

04-27-2003, 03:55 PM

To herbalist

When using this system in the 414m, keep an eye on the belt tension, should be good under strengh !!
Try to put the esc on the upper plate , this should not interfere with the small chassis (what are you running, 6 cell one side (then on the other side ESC) or saddle (top deck) or stick/ sideby side pack then try the lower deck on the left side (seen from aft) or go to the upper deck (a little better, because better harmed when a crash occurs, but weight moves up !!)

As for the gearing try a 12:1 at starting point, then go up with teeths on the pinion, right to the moment, where the esc is rarely touchable (NOT that hot that it CANNOT be touched, then go back with teeths)

This takes some time, but do yourself a favor and do NOT run this Motor with 10 cells in an Xray !!
1. cells are too high (heat will be strored too fast in the windings and cannot be cooled that fast
2. drivetrain problems due to the extrem high torque
3. amp goes that high, melting may occur
4. amp draw ruins accu packs very fast (even best pushed 3300´s are going down when treated with 80 A !!

As a general:
1 cell around 45 W
(6 cells 6 x 45 W= 270 W)
(should not exceed the 400 W mark)

use a very low teethed pinion when planning the use of 8 cells (this will be taken by the electronics and the drive-mechanics)
Every cell more is just killing your material THAT fast.
(BL was not invented for very high speed runs, it is able to do so, but the car mechanics are ruined very fast in 10th sedans.

Hope this was helpful !! :D

see ya