Brushless Motor Forum v3.0 [Archive]

Mr. Constructor

03-03-2003, 01:07 PM

To RCmaniac324:

I do read these posts too, but I was wondering why you´re that crazy (sounds to me a little but in fact we all are a little :p )
As for me you should measure out the diameter of your main axle (that sticks out of the tranny Box)
the most used Slippers have around 3 to 5 mm bore, maybe you could get some to cut a new main axle out of steel on a lathe for you and then you will be able to drive the car with a , say Asso Slipper.

As for the hacked gear, I think, the Diff wants to unload during the corners (and cannot, because you fixed it) so the forces went another way the over stressed half of the gear is used.
Anyway, the use of a slipper and a good dialed in Diff has to function, try the diff with a normal 9 T (or anything very powerful)
then lock it step by step as it will not affect the cornering and not to loose for slipping (try to find a point in wich the diff is more locked than normal (just a few thread inches) and then test out the slipper the same way, let it only slipp (with the 9 T) for about 3-4 feets, then built the BL in and before driving set the diff and the Slipper 1/4 turn tighter, then the car should run well, the gearing you choose is too high for a MT (or is it not an MT, didn´t now the MRC that good) choose a 15-16:1 with big tires with buggy tires use a 13:1 as now.
Then the Car has to run !!

To WhaDL:

I think you´re not totally right, the Combination makes the effect, think: a system as the Lehner or Hacker Combo but with the support as the Novak thats the best rule !!
But to say a word to support, in Germany the Support for BL´s from these firms is great (7 working days) but the Novak system takes patience it´s the too long distance and the missing repair stores (as the big Entertainment Manufacturers have) that stops the enthusiasm at all.
I bought a Novak 5 -6 Years ago, the Snow melted one FET and our dealer was not able to fix it !! (at least soldered it myself and is running again)
But the thing is that the Novak System has just another method of thinking behind its tech datas, if you cope with it OK if not , take the other systems.

By the way: our last endurance race was held 24 hours with only one BL (and novak wasn´t there and the teams where NO Manufacturer teams)
I think the technology itself is that good if the best drivers will use it it will be equal wich one you choose.

Lord Radeon

03-03-2003, 03:11 PM

Soya: single cell shrink is just SLIGHTLY too small for the job.

Micha_MX4

03-03-2003, 04:10 PM

well, finally got my setup complete...

after getting a Lehner basic 5300 at eBay lat week,
i was fortunate anough to get a schulze 58ce today
for a reasonable price
http://mike-high.bei.t-online.de/pictures/brushless/basic-5300.jpg

http://mike-high.bei.t-online.de/pictures/brushless/future%2058ce.jpg

I will post my experiences here and at the setup-thread.

Anyone out here, who has tried the programming? Any hints?
Do I have to watch out for something?

Thanx,
Mike

Soya v1.1

03-03-2003, 04:20 PM

Watch out for water! My Shulze does not like it:p

ViciousKnives

03-04-2003, 12:38 AM

watch out for you batteries, controller might fry when you plug them in... get a bottle ready for that just in case, so you can save the smoke... lol.

hopefully you'll have better luck than a lot of other people have had... good luck

alana07

03-04-2003, 01:59 AM

hi,
i've just seen on schulze's website they have a new esc called the U-Force, which is designed for both brushed and brushless usage. i'm considering getting a b/less setup, and was leaning towards the hacker master car competition when this U-Force esc appeared. i know schulze's escs are good but i hate their shrinkwrap casing. could all the experienced b/less users in here provide some kind of advice? i'll be using the setup for 6cell touring. thanks.

Soya v1.1

03-04-2003, 07:50 AM

I like the Shulze because it has awesome off the line punch. They're also small, and pretty light. But the shrinkwrap does kinda suck.

tc3punk

03-04-2003, 08:59 AM

well, it depends on how much money you have

if the schulze fries, from ANYthing, they will say it's your fault, and you'll have to pay about 50% the price of a new one, just to get it repaired...

hacker on the other hand has been pretty good with repairs, and havn't had many controllers go up in smoke;)

oh yeah, it's "BL" not "B/less":p

JonDax

03-04-2003, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by ViciousKnives
watch out for you batteries, controller might fry when you plug them in... get a bottle ready for that just in case, so you can save the smoke... lol.

hopefully you'll have better luck than a lot of other people have had... good luck

I've been running my new Hacker setup since this weekend --it's SO great, BTW, a C50 and Master Comp controller-- and in the instructions it mentions something about 'not making multiple connections when attaching the battery.' I couldn't figure it out at first, but now I'm thinking they meant to be careful plugging the battery in and not to touch the connectors together too many times. On my Schulze/LMT and especially the Hacker, it arcs pretty good when I hook them up. Sometimes I slip and it 'zaps'/arcs a couple of times. Sometimes it doesn't at all. I'm thinking that zapping/arcing deal is what will help fry the esc. If you're running many cells this could be even more possible. I never noticed it as much with brushed, but both my BL escs get full power upon hookup and begin to draw current immediately. My batteries ran down just from being plugged in, and I've left batts plugged into my brushed Novak escs before overnight, switched them on the nest day and ran them. Not so with my Hacker. maybe that's why someone in here had a fire with a Hacker system? even with a BEC switch it drained the batteries into reversal?

Well, enough rambling, but I gotta say, I love this BL stuff so much more than my brushed setups. SO smooooth!:D I do see what Prinler was saying about not popping wheelies as easy in the Maxx though. Not quite as much off-the-line snap it seems. It will start to pull a wheelie on acceleration, on its way to 30+mph! ( I haven't found enough room for full speed yet. Yet.)
--JD

BJMFH

03-04-2003, 11:04 AM

Your are absolutely correct JonDax!

I was the moron who left his batteries plugged into my Hacker Master Sport ESC. I had the thing switched off too.Not only was my ESC fried (exploded is more the word), my batteries were ruined, along with all the other electronics in my car. It even melted the carbon fiber chassis in my RC10B3.

I own the Master Competition now. I don't plug the batteries unless I'm going to immmediately use it. Even if I'm parking lot bashing and the lot is 5 minutes away, I still won't plug the batteries in.

I know most people on this site are tired of hearing me p*ss and moan about what happened, but I'm just trying to get the word out. BL systems cost alot of cash so it's stupid to ruin one over a simple, avoidable mistake. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR BATTERIES CONNECTED TO YOUR BL CONTROLLER!

I was reading the manual for Novak's BL system. It says not to leave the batteries connected too. Guess this is problem with all BL controllers.

LEMMEDRIVEIT!!

03-04-2003, 03:01 PM

Ok, i've been lookgin around at brushless websites, and i'm totally confused- i've read alot of this thread, and i'm still confused- I've hear dmany good adn bad things, and i don't want to blow 250$ on a motor and esc and then they don't work(i'm obviously a newbie) I was looking around at www.rumrunnerhobbies.com or something( i think that thats it)

BUt anyways, i'm totally confused. Could someone just lease give me a setup around like 250$ that would work in a Traxxas rustler???- i might also see if it woudl fit in my 1/12th scale corally(can you say 100mph???) Is ti worth it??? i dont' know if i will be able to run it on my track(if so, then i will just switch when i go there) I woudl be using it for play. What woudl be good for me

Please give me a setup- thanx..

later

Prinler

03-04-2003, 03:10 PM

OK let me sum this up for ya....
On brushed ESC's things are rated for Winds....
On Brushless ESC's things are rated for Amps.....

Ok a 1920/5 will pull like 150 amps on one hard pull.... if your esc cant pull that it will thermal, IE... NO GO! that means purchase a $450 ESC for flawless operation.

If ya want to make sure you get an ESC and motor that will work.... Make sure they are both Sensored or Sensorless.

If you notice on the ESC pages it will tell you how many amps peak ( one hard pull from stand still will do this ) and how many amps consecutive if can handle. get a ESC that will fir the motors amp draw and it should work good. Once you find a few you like, ask us here in the forums, we will be glad to tell ya what we think :)

my 2 cents

spreckenzy

03-04-2003, 03:33 PM

well i am new to the brushless motors. i ordered a lehner basic 5300 ($120) and a warrior 7018($120) with a $10 heat sink is about $254 plus shipping.

i am going to run it in a T2. i have found some places to get alloy diff and idler gears as well as some aluminum chassis parts. i figure this is going to have plenty of power and top speed.

$254 is not bad for a bl system.

Novak has shown signs of their BL hitting the market shortly $234 for the system

LEMMEDRIVEIT!!

03-04-2003, 03:40 PM

thanx prinler. I was looking at the Lehner basic series, and the warrior controller with a heatsink. I jsut have a few questions.

I cna't find where to order a basic motor - they show a pic on the first page, but not a link.

i was lookign around hte website, and they said that the warrior wsn't programmable but u need a chip r something- thats what i was confused about.

SO, what do i need to run it- i was gonna get the warrior and a lehner basic- if i coudl choose one, adn how do i get to the choices, and waht do i need to do with the warrior controller? please explain it.

LEMMEDRIVEIT!!

03-04-2003, 03:41 PM

whoops- i found where to get the motors, but which one and what setup do i need for my rusty???

spreckenzy

03-04-2003, 03:45 PM

the lehrner 4200 or 5300 motor and a warrior 7018 would be a good setup in my opinion.

LEMMEDRIVEIT!!

03-04-2003, 03:49 PM

ok i foudnthe stuff- how abotu a lehner basic 4200, with the 70 amp warrior- i read it and i kinda understand it- i'm also getting it with the heat sink

how is this setup?? please reply quickly.

Prinler

03-04-2003, 03:50 PM

Yup..... 4200 if ya want more torque and longer run time.

7018 ESC is good for your needs
i did the same as you.... tried to understand it before i ordered it

Dont!

Buy the warrior 7018.... then a 4200 or 5300 motot... get it... it will make sence when you get it in your hands :)

spreckenzy

03-04-2003, 03:54 PM

like i said i am getting the 5300 for more top end the 4200 will be fine and have less cogging. the 4200 is also good for the e-maxx and other bigger models whereas the 5300 probalbly not work well with the e-Maxx. it is a good set up in my opionion. try fine design as well they have a phone number to talk with one of them they will be very helpful. by the way the warrior 7018 is due to come in late this week they have been back ordered for a while.

spreckenzy

03-04-2003, 03:56 PM

are you telling him not to buy one ?

LEMMEDRIVEIT!!

03-04-2003, 04:45 PM

Prinler- what are u talkign about. THe 4200 will be good but don't order the warrior.. wha???

I was gonna get the Lehner 4200 basic, and the warrior 70 amp one- the 7018/3 bec. Whats wrong with it?? i thinkt hat it shoudl work, cause they recommend it too.

So what were you saying??

metalry101

03-04-2003, 05:09 PM

I think he was saying get that system, but don't try to understand all the BL terminology. I don't think anyone knows what all this stuff means.

spreckenzy

03-04-2003, 05:17 PM

get the 4200/warrior 7018 and understand it later. it will be a good set up for you.

RadicalRustler

03-04-2003, 05:22 PM

the reason why not to order the 7018 is b/c lehner is/was reprograming the controllers and no shipment has come out since october. Read back 1 or 2 pages and you will find a post sayng that the 7018 should be at finedesign aound thursday. So if you are impatient get a shulze or hacker, it you are fairly patient, go warrior

BLK

03-04-2003, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by LEMMEDRIVEIT!!
ok i foudnthe stuff- how abotu a lehner basic 4200, with the 70 amp warrior- i read it and i kinda understand it- i'm also getting it with the heat sink

how is this setup?? please reply quickly.

There was a thread started several months ago (by me no less:D ) which asked people to post their current B/L setups, costs, likes, dislikes, etc. Here is a link to the thread:
Brushless Motor Setup Thread (http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105705&highlight=Brushless+setup)

I had hoped it would develope into a quick thread where peeps could get setup info about setups that work (or Dont work) so it may give you some quick answers. BUT...the info from this thread is invaluable and will help you understand what you are getting into. It is long, and there has been an occasional Fish Attack!, but for the most part, the thread is well worth the time to look into.

BLK

RadicalRustler

03-04-2003, 05:37 PM

the fishy parts were fun! We should start another one but with farm animals:p

metalry101

03-04-2003, 05:56 PM

Alright, I've tried this in the E-Maxx forum, but it's hard to get solid answers since only a few run brushless. Can anyone suggest a brushless system for my E-Maxx? I've heard that the Basic 4200 and Warrior is the way to go, and I like the price on that, but it doesn't sound like it's much faster than stock. Does anyone in here run that? Or has anyone seen it run? How fast is it? Also, how many cells would be recommended? Two more questions. Would a Basic 5300 and a Warrior be a sweet setup in a TB Evo II? That's a 1/10 scale touring car for those who don't know, and also, could you run brushless in a Micro RS4 if it had drivetrain upgrades? I've got a Micro w/ the Big Block, and it's nuts, but I think brushless would be even cooler. Has it been done? Could it work?

Soya v1.1

03-04-2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by RadicalRustler
the fishy parts were fun!

I remember that! Good times, good times:D

andy497

03-04-2003, 11:25 PM

metalry101, couple of things.

I would not try a basic 4200 in an emaxx. That motor is quite decent in a 1/10 on/off road car, but I think you would be disappointed with it in a maxx. I would try something larger; most folks are quite happy with hacker 50s size (c50, b50) and equivalent lehners (1920s I think?)

Things to think about are that you want a motor capable and happy running on 12 or more cells (in series), and you need a controller that can handle this (the voltage) and the current as well. The hacker master comp. should be fine, a lehner warrior 7018 might be pushing it for handling the current, and a schulze 12.97 would probably be fine too. In any case, websites like rumrunners and finedesignrc have specific setups for maxxes that have been tested and work. I don't think you could go wrong with those.

About the micro, if it has standard mounts for a 540 size motor, you should be able to throw a brushless in. You can pretty much make your brushless as mild as you want to with lower gearing (smaller pinion I mean), so that wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea.

The idea with picking a motor is to try to find one that meets your power requirements and is efficient at the voltage/current levels you plan on running it the majority of the time. That's were the manufacturer's numbers come in, although you really need all three (KV, Io, and Rm) and not just KV. Electric rc flyers do this all the time to determine the right prop/motor combination, and there are even programs which do all the work for you (electricalc comes to mind, this has motor constants for just about every bl motor built in). With the proper equipment, you can measure the constants yourself too. With an astro whattmeter and a DVM, I measured the Io to be 4.7 amps and Rm to be 0.008 ohms on the basic 5300. Once you get the constants, there are a bunch of fancy equations that I can use to tell me that the motor, on 6 cells, has peak efficiency of about 84% at 59 amps while generating about 300 watts. Ok, so that doesn't help most people much in the real world, but the good news is brushless are easy. They are more efficient that brushed almost throughout their entire usable power curves, so you can probably gear a motor that's a little too big or too small to work in your application.

tc3punk

03-04-2003, 11:33 PM

metalry, check out the post I made with the vids:
found here (http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92036&perpage=25&pagenumber=74)

also, some of the links that say "link, don't right click" or something like that, are links to my yahoo briefcase...

I just added one the other day, of a Emaxx w/ 4200 on 12 cells

it's named "WOT_Emaxx_...." or something like that (it's divx also)

as you can see from the vid, it's a decent motor in an E, but a dually would be even bettah!:D

that's all the motor I'd put in an emaxx without upgrading to cvds and upgrading the diffs, and it's still more power than stock;)

metalry101

03-04-2003, 11:36 PM

Alright, I've heard differently about the 4200, from someone who runs it nonetheless. And Rum Runners recommends it. Not dissing on you, just saying other people's opinions. The Hacker looks good, other than the price tag.

The Micro doesn't have standard motor mounts, but the 10 series Lehner motors should fit it. I don't know how much power they have though. The Orion Big Block is insanely powerful for a Micro. With a Big Block and a 7.2 volt battery, my Micro does 30, and lights all four up with ease. The question is would the BL be controllable even?

k_sw31

03-04-2003, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Soya v1.1
I remember that! Good times, good times:D

it was :D

k_sw31

03-04-2003, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by metalry101
Alright, I've heard differently about the 4200, from someone who runs it nonetheless. And Rum Runners recommends it. Not dissing on you, just saying other people's opinions. The Hacker looks good, other than the price tag.

The Micro doesn't have standard motor mounts, but the 10 series Lehner motors should fit it. I don't know how much power they have though. The Orion Big Block is insanely powerful for a Micro. With a Big Block and a 7.2 volt battery, my Micro does 30, and lights all four up with ease. The question is would the BL be controllable even?

I'd imagine not...even on 4 cells. Would be fun though :)

metalry101

03-04-2003, 11:51 PM

I'm assuming you're saying that the Micro probably wouldn't be controllable? Maybe I could gear it down, and go real easy on the trigger, see if I could touch 70 w/ the Micro. How tight would that be? Uncontrollable, ya. The fastest Micro on the planet, HELL YA.

tc3punk

03-05-2003, 12:10 AM

um, fishy parts?:confused:

that must have been before I started posting here:(
can someone fill me in?;)

oh yeah, BL Micro = been done

go to wild+hobbies.com,
just take out the "+"

they have vids too;)

k_sw31

03-05-2003, 12:22 AM

page 38 through like 42 or so, just read.

BTW, my puffer fish bombs were the best!

Soya v1.1

03-05-2003, 07:41 AM

nuh uh:p

JonDax

03-05-2003, 01:54 PM

I know someone in here said they got oneof these, how is it working? I see the specs say it only puts out 5v, is that enough do you think for a 180oz. servo? I did notice a pretty big difference when I got rid of the EVX and its BEC and used a 6v Nitro pack. Think the Ultimate BEC will do a better job than the BEC in the EVX? I'd sure love to lose that reciever pack...

This is for my Emaxx with C50 and Master Comp controller w/12 cells, btw. The Master Comp BEC didn't work at all without extreme glitching, that's why I got the nitro pack, and that works great.

Mr. Constructor

03-05-2003, 02:52 PM

To metalry101:

I was just thinking of a 1:24 Formula 1 with a BL (small Hacker
S 30 or so and a 7,2 V Liion Battery !!
Should be really light and powerful, the running time is anywher between 10 min and 20 min !! (the Liion i use in my Radio has 1400mAh but is onla a 4rd of the weight than a normal 1400 !!
I ´ve figured out some dealers that my equip me with some LiIon cells for very low Money, even Li pol Cells are no Problem s!!
this thing could become serious !!
(the whole Car has to be out of CfK plates to decrease weight and increase the strength, but as this is not that costly in Germany, this Car could be a thing to built !
Has anyone tried this out before ??

Muck

03-05-2003, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by JonDax
I know someone in here said they got oneof these, how is it working? I see the specs say it only puts out 5v, is that enough do you think for a 180oz. servo?
I was reading on the maxx traxx forum that kool products or what ever whatever there name is, is going to put out another ultimate bec that puts out 6v in like about 30 days or so. I hope so! I'd buy one. I always forget to turn off my radio:confused: and my battries run down.

JonDax

03-05-2003, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Muck
I was reading on the maxx traxx forum that kool products or what ever whatever there name is, is going to put out another ultimate bec that puts out 6v in like about 30 days or so. I hope so! I'd buy one. I always forget to turn off my radio:confused: and my battries run down.

Awesome! Thanks Muck! I'm glad I posted in here before I just went ahead and ordered one. I'll wait for the 6v one now. :)
--JD

k_sw31

03-05-2003, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Constructor
To metalry101:

I was just thinking of a 1:24 Formula 1 with a BL (small Hacker
S 30 or so and a 7,2 V Liion Battery !!
Should be really light and powerful, the running time is anywher between 10 min and 20 min !! (the Liion i use in my Radio has 1400mAh but is onla a 4rd of the weight than a normal 1400 !!
I ´ve figured out some dealers that my equip me with some LiIon cells for very low Money, even Li pol Cells are no Problem s!!
this thing could become serious !!
(the whole Car has to be out of CfK plates to decrease weight and increase the strength, but as this is not that costly in Germany, this Car could be a thing to built !
Has anyone tried this out before ??

Although they look neat, I am not all that excited because some guy was using a 1 amp power supply with his novak Li-ion battery setup...and well, he almost burnt his house down...

Muck

03-05-2003, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by JonDax
Awesome! Thanks Muck! I'm glad I posted in here before I just went ahead and ordered one. I'll wait for the 6v one now. :)
--JD
here is the thread about the 6v ubec at MaxxTraxx (http://216.89.252.161/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=25;t=25993)

JonDax

03-06-2003, 12:08 AM

I take back what I said before about not being able to pop wheelies with my maxx and the C50 motor--it's no problem with a tight slipper! It pops right up on the back bumper, and even over on the roof pretty easily! I love this thing! It just flies now. I bet I can beat everyone in my neighborhood. :D Now I wanna find this guy I know with a Tmaxx that he can never get running quite right. :p I just hope it doesn't self-destruct too soon.

Prinler

03-06-2003, 01:27 AM

John please be kind to your diffs!!!!!!!!!

I would start saving up. .... Support monstermaxx.com :)hehe

Ok im taking bets on when Johns Diffs go out.

2 months

what week do you think they will break?

send all money to my grandma.... e-mail for details...
hi_im_just_kidding@dontemail.com

JonDax

03-06-2003, 09:45 AM

Two months? You think they might last that long, huh?:) Actually, i don't know if that's too bad! Do you have the 2.5 version or the earlier one? Did you get your UE diffs yet?

I already got the cvds, how about the tranny? How will that hold up? Is there anything to mod in there?

k_sw31

03-06-2003, 08:52 PM

locked slippers are fun :)

Prinler

03-06-2003, 10:14 PM

Dont!!!!!!!!!!! LOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SLIPPER!!!!!!!!!!!

Why you think they have one? to take the blunt of the force, when you take off. With no Slipper say good bye to your Drive train.... IE DIFFS :)

k_sw31

03-06-2003, 10:22 PM

Thats why I am glad my T3's tranny doesn't have a problem :D

Mr. Constructor

03-07-2003, 12:32 PM

To k_sw31:

NICE to drive a Car without a slipper (this man looks into the eye of aliens and will ditch them of . . . .;) )
But as for the Li Ion or polymer Cells, if you use the Schulze
chargers, you´re free of any hassle, they really do their job, I checked that out, because my MPX Car 707 is 6 cell, so why not try a LIION instead of these crappy NiMH´s ??
It functions that well, I´ve now 1500 MaH but only Half (or less) the weight, in a long race this becomes handy . . . .)
As the Polymer Cells do get more Amps out (up to 8 A for 3000Mah cells !!) they will be ideal for these small models, due to their weight and drivetime (8A should be enough, esp. with a BL in this small Car !!):D

JonDax

03-07-2003, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Prinler
Dont!!!!!!!!!!! LOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SLIPPER!!!!!!!!!!!

Why you think they have one? to take the blunt of the force, when you take off. With no Slipper say good bye to your Drive train.... IE DIFFS :)

I never locked my slipper, i just tightened it down so it won't slip so much.:p

On my Maxx the way I drive, it seems like the most stress on the tranny and diffs is in the braking. I can get it to flip over no problem braking! Luckily it works out with my radio that I can turn down the braking power, so at 70% I get good, smooth brakes with no gear slippage.

It does jam into reverse sometimes when I think I'm hitting the brakes, and that seems pretty harsh on the components as well. I bought the Hacker setup because it would go into reverse right away, but now I see why the shulze has the long delay. The shulze will actually activate the brakes until the model has come to a stop, so brakes work while coasting and in reverse, too. Pretty neat, I think, but the tradeoff is having a long delay before reverse will kick in. On my Maxx I need to be able to do 3-point turns in a couple of spots, so the reverse delay would kill me. Oh well, maybe there will be a 'perfect' BL setup someday, but for the meantime I can live with what I got.

I wonder if any of the CNC guys will get into building and selling BL mounts for any of the 1/8 vehicles? Seems like there's lots of interest in 1/8 BL in MaxTraxx. A BL Savage would be pretty cool!

NIC

03-07-2003, 01:42 PM

Hello everyone !

It´s been along time since I posted something. I think it was around page 45 :eek: :D .
I have just finnish converting my Inferno 1/8th to BL-power. It will be great I can feel it ;) . I haven´t put the motor in yet, but it has been orderd. I went with a Lehner 1940/5 (on 12 cells) with a Micro 18120 controller. I also orderd a 1920/6 for use in my tourer and 1/10th 4wd off-road and a 1010/13 just to test it out in my micro :eek: :D . I´m going to use the y-conn. on the 1010/13 for "regular driving" and if I have the guts the normal delta-connection (9231 rpm/volt) for some speed runs. I don´t think I will be able to controll it but I couldn´t resist the temptation ;) .
After hour of looking at Lehners motordiagramshttp://home.t-online.de/home/lehner-motorn/d08index.htm :o I found some things that could help a little to understand different lenghts and winds:

A 1010/30 on 11.16V and at 9,39A gives you 8,36Ncm of torque

A 1020/30 on 11.14V and at 9,29A gives you 16,30Ncm of torque

The 1020 gives you double the torque because it is a "20", but then it only gives you halv the rpm compare to the 1010.

Same thing with the 1515 and 1530, and 1920, 1940:

A 1920/12 on 13.11V and at 49,65A = 17,23Ncm

A 1940/12 on 13.15V and at 49,75A = 33,29Ncm

Here is a tip for you guys: Don´t sit in front of the computor and stare at thoose numbers all day long like I did, your head might explode ;) :D .

I will give you all a full review of the stuff I orderd when I get them.

See you soon !

NIC

Oh.. Mr.Constructor, where did you find thoose cells ?

NIC

03-07-2003, 02:04 PM

Sorry I missed an "e" in motoren ,just put one in and it will work:)

OptimaMan

03-08-2003, 08:04 AM

Hey guys, I've noticed you can actually get the Novak brushless setup on ebay this morning - some hobby store has like 7 of them for a buy it now price.

I was tempted to buy one, but seeing how I've already have 4 brushless motors and 1 controller and another controller on order, I figured I don't need more motors and controllers than cars!!! So, if anybody goes out and get this, please tell me how it compares to some of the other brushless out here.

FYI, I have the Hacker c40 6 turn, Hacker b50 6s, Hacker b50 8s, and Lehner Basic 5300. My controller is the Schulze 12.97 fwe and I've ordered a Micro 18120.

Best motor for my XXX-S graphite + is the c40 6 turn. Not too much power, but good smooth power. Approx like a new 8 turn brushed motor.

Best motor for my XXX-T MF is the Lehner 5300 - maybe too much power, but I like power!!!! On the track under racing conditions, I can run over a full 10 minutes! I have a 12 tooth pinion I use for this setup - it drives like a 10 or 11 turn brushed mod motor!!!

The Hacker C50 motors are really big beastly motors. With 6 cells, I feel like the motor is just barely living. In an Emaxx, a C50 8 s with 12-14 cells would haul ass.

RadicalRustler

03-08-2003, 09:55 PM

Thte savage looks vert nice. Now we do the twin bl conversion with the basic xl 5000(x2) and 18150(x2) conversion,and we have a super fast bank robber. The car will run away with your money!

Prinler

03-08-2003, 10:05 PM

Just fried my ESC ... Dunno what happened

it thermaled... now it smells like burn electronics!

Beware ... the onlything i changed is my DIFFS

tc3punk

03-08-2003, 10:36 PM

prinler, sorry to hear that man:mad:
what was your setup?

also, radical rustler, dual XL's aren't going to be the best
and would most likely be a waste

dual basics are more torque than just about any rc can handle, and xl's would just kill everything in it's path:rolleyes: :(

BJMFH

03-08-2003, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Prinler
Just fried my ESC ... Dunno what happened

it thermaled... now it smells like burn electronics!

Beware ... the onlything i changed is my DIFFS

I've thermaled/fried my brushless controllers (Hacker Master Sport and Competition) a few times by performing torture tests or getting them wet. After they've shut down, I let them sit for a few hours and they've both come back to life. Sure my Competition smelled a bit funny for awhile, but it performs perfectly now.

Sh*t man, when I got the controller wet, I could see sparks shooting up from the two yellow capacitors.

Your ESC should come back to life. Good luck though dude!

Prinler

03-08-2003, 11:37 PM

I was running a C50 ( looks perfect)
and a HACKER Sport ESC.......... i will try to post

Prinler

03-08-2003, 11:39 PM

#2
This is inside the bottom... totally fried.... like the chicken you ate for supper

Prinler

03-08-2003, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by BJMFH

Your ESC should come back to life. Good luck though dude! [/B]

Really? you think so? there are diods and stuff stock to the bottom plate...

Lord Radeon

03-08-2003, 11:43 PM

Everyone here pray for Prinler. I've known him for a while now and he's had the downright shittiest luck with BL

Lord Radeon

03-09-2003, 12:12 AM

You guys will love this. A little something i threw together

http://pic3.picturetrail.com:80/VOL17/812824/1446171/21321129.jpg

BJMFH

03-09-2003, 12:24 AM

After seeing those photos, I retract my previous post. That's almost as bad as when my Master Sport exploded. It does look burnt all to h*ll. Still, I'd at least try to hook up a crappy battery pack up to it after a few hours. At this point it can't really hurt to try.

You're sure you didn't gear your car too high or get the ESC wet? The only other thing I can think of is the "leaving the battery plugged in" mistake, made famous by me.

You have an Emaxx right? I don't know anything about them. But, if it's like any other off-road vehicle you can't over tighten the differential gears or slipper clutch without f*cking sh*t up.

I drive a FT TC3 and I recently had a problem with small stones getting stuck in the teeth of my rear differential gear, putting additional stress on the motor and ESC. As soon as I cleaned out the stones, the stress on the motor and ESC was relieved.

If the problem wasn't stress or user related, it has to be faulty manufacturing. I read the manual for the Hacker Sport/Competition and they basically tell you that they aren't responsible for anything. It looks like there are enough loopholes in their "warranty" that they won't replace a d*mn thing, unless you pay for it of course.

Damn, I'm really sorry about what happened though. You have my condolences. I'm assuming you purchased your BL setup from Fine Design. Try to contact them and see what kind of replacement/repairs options they've got. Please keep us posted. I'm quite interested in how the customer service from either Fine Design or Hacker handles this situation.

Prinler

03-09-2003, 12:38 AM

WIll do ....

tc3punk

03-09-2003, 08:55 PM

well, on a happy note:

introducing Poconoblmaxx's BL Savage21!!!
lol
he posted this on maxxtraxx, and I thought you all should see this

it's a pretty cheesy site, but got some pics of his savage and 1/8buggy;)

Poconoblmaxx's site... (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1nu22/index.html)

:D

spreckenzy

03-09-2003, 08:56 PM

anybody have an opinion on the basic 5300 vs. 4200? in a t2 with six cells.

tc3punk

03-09-2003, 09:02 PM

how much speed do you want?
do you plan on racing?

for me, I'd go with the 5300, cause I'm crazy for speed:cool:

but for most purposes, a 4200 would be just fine
it'd give longer run time, run cooler, and be more controlable

gl;)

RadicalRustler

03-09-2003, 09:18 PM

ask k_sw31, he has a t3 with 5300.

Prinler

03-09-2003, 09:44 PM

ok 4200 compaired to the 5300 ..... the 5300 gives you about 5 MPH max more... and drops your run timr 4 mins. your choice

BJMFH

03-09-2003, 09:55 PM

There is just one thing I don't understand about the 5300. It has a RPM limit of 65000, correct? Then why is the cell limit 8 cells? I'm probably missing something here.

By my calculations you should only get close to the RPM limit with 10 cells. I could be doing this wrong so please bear with me. I know that no rechargeable battery will produce a true 1.2 volts, but for arguments sake I'm using 1.2 (at present, even the best matched cells will only put out about 1.16).

(1.2*10)(5300)=63600

That is still 1400 RPM short of the 65000 RPM limit, much less if you factor in the actual voltage that the cells really put out. By my inadequate math, the cell limit should be 10 cells, not 8. Everywhere I've looked the recommended number of cells is 6-8. If I am right, it should be 6-10.

Do the magnets start to separate at 10 cells? I don't understand why the posted cell limit is 8 if the RPM limit isn't reached. Like I said before, there's something I'm just not getting. I would love to run my 5300 with 10 cells.

If someone could explain this to me I would be very grateful. Thanks!

RadicalRustler

03-09-2003, 10:14 PM

i think it is b/c the 5300 is on load, and an rc can break off, giving it the redline rpm you don't want to hit. I think 9 cells would be fine though

tc3punk

03-09-2003, 10:28 PM

the limit on a 5300 is 10 cells with no load

so with load, I'd run it up to 12...

I'll post this, but I think I might have posted this before, but am lazy, so here goes:

***************
Tc3punk: how's your tc3 holdoing up?
TruNorthStar: hehehehe exploded
Tc3punk: wah!?!??!?
TruNorthStar: i clocked it at 110 then it flipped landing on a angle to the rear end
TruNorthStar: motor ok tho
Tc3punk: but did it hold up to the power?
Tc3punk: like drivetrain work?
TruNorthStar: yeah it held up fine...... but it got some air under it and flip it went
Tc3punk: 110!?!?
Tc3punk: how'd you clock it?
TruNorthStar: lol it must have gotten about 8-10 feet in the air
TruNorthStar: gps
TruNorthStar: 110.3
Tc3punk: howmany cells?
TruNorthStar: 16
Tc3punk: sixteen!?!?
TruNorthStar: hehehe yeah
Tc3punk: and the controller didn't go "poof"?
TruNorthStar: nope
TruNorthStar: i have the 150
TruNorthStar: and i ramped it up slow
Tc3punk: why not just go all the way with 18 cells?
TruNorthStar: couldent make them fit with the gps
Tc3punk: pictures?
TruNorthStar: i had some.... they were on roommates hd and it crashed
TruNorthStar: yeah i need to get a new tc3
TruNorthStar: i was thinking of putting it in my 10L
Tc3punk: how fast do you think it could do a 1/4?
TruNorthStar: my guess..... 12 sec
Tc3punk: cause when I get my setup, I'm gonna wanna follow your example, except for the flipping and exploding part ;-)
TruNorthStar: id put a wing on the front end
Tc3punk: thinking about getting a Parma WEDGE
TruNorthStar: about 2" in front of the car
Tc3punk: like a dirt track oval body hehe
TruNorthStar: i was using a s7 body on it
Tc3punk: to bad you didn't have vid :'(
TruNorthStar: hahahaha it was rolling for about 50-60 feet end to end
Tc3punk: waht ?
TruNorthStar: my tc3
TruNorthStar: sh#t was flying off of it
************

there, he ran a 1930/5 on 16 cells!:eek:

so that would be 6270rpm/volt, 1.2 volt per cell, and 16 cells

6270*1.2*16 = 120384rpm

the rpm limit on the motor is 50k, and that's more than twice over the limit!!!:eek:

I'm not sure how that happend, and not hit the controller's rpm limiter, but I do know that it was pushed about as far as it possibly could ;) :p

Prinler

03-09-2003, 10:34 PM

Well i dont know this true guy .. but he is lying. come on.... his HD crashed. how convinent. he prolly got it run over by the trash truck or something lol. and if it did go 100+ it would wouldnt be distroyed... its rebuildable. to many holes in his story.

100? haha

Lord Radeon

03-09-2003, 10:34 PM

The RPM limit of the 19 series is 100,000. Not 50,000. But he is BSing you. That's not possible

BJMFH

03-09-2003, 11:08 PM

Run over by the garbage truck, that's funny Prinler. I spit my drink out when I read that. :D

Not to be rude TC3punk, but your friend's story does sound a bit questionable. I would love to believe that his TC3 hit 110 and then became airborne because I have a TC3 too. If my car is capable of such a feat, that would be great. Something just sounds wrong about that whole story.

Lord Radeon, the 100,000 RPM does sound more reasonable for a bigger motor such as the 19 series, but Rum Runner's website says that it'll only do 50,000 RPM. Where did you get your info from? If it will hit 100,000 then I'll buy one!

Prinler

03-10-2003, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by BJMFH
Run over by the garbage truck, that's funny Prinler. I spit my drink out when I read that. :D

Glad ya like it :) hehehe

BJMFH

03-10-2003, 12:48 AM

TC3punk, I'm a bit confused here. The 1930/5 will produce 4180 RPM per volt. The 1920/5 will produce 6270 RPM per volt. Which motor does your friend have?

If he was running a 1920/5 on 16 cells the total RPM would be 120,384 RPM.

If he was running a 1930/5 on 16 cells the total RPM would be 80,256 RPM.

The 1930/5 scenario sounds more likely, if the RPM limit for the 19 series is indeed 100000, as opposed to 50,000. That limit issue still needs to be cleared up.

We need to get the BL Yoda on this sh*t! Mr. Constructor, where are you at? ;)

Micha_MX4

03-10-2003, 02:53 AM

well just checked the Lehner calculator site at
Lehner Calculator (http://home.t-online.de/home/lehner-motoren/r00index.htm)
and when you give him the following inputs
Volts 20
Current 80 Amps (which cell gives you that?)
RPM 100,000

gives the result : 1920/6
possible RPM 104,500 1/min

BJMFH - there's an order-Button right at this site ;-)

so much about LHS-knowledge... :p

...still waiting for my Schulze 58ce...

Mike

tc3punk

03-10-2003, 09:00 AM

it was late and I was tired

I accedentaly looked at the 1920/5 instead of the 30:rolleyes:

but the point was that it was way over the rpm limit....

and I can't verify this story or not, but I don't see why it's not possible....

if a basic can get a pede up to 70mph, then I don't see why a 1930/5 couldn't get a TC up to 110

and if you guys don't believe it, then meh...

that is all;)

Prinler

03-10-2003, 03:23 PM

a basic cant even get my TC to 40 how the hell do peple get a truck to 70 EXPLAIN!

tc3punk

03-10-2003, 05:03 PM

PedeForEver's pede has hit 70

guess it might be luck, but he can gear it to moon, and it don't cog.

pm, if you wanna talk to him ;)

Prinler

03-10-2003, 05:05 PM

thats horrible. 70 in a pead... i must be going 90 then

unit_4tec

03-10-2003, 05:19 PM

how much more faster do these brushless go than original 8 turn or whatever motors? would it be cheaper to get the lowest turn motor and esc or brushless?

k_sw31

03-10-2003, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Prinler
thats horrible. 70 in a pead... i must be going 90 then

...of course...you should see what he is running...

tc3punk

03-10-2003, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by unit_4tec
how much more faster do these brushless go than original 8 turn or whatever motors? would it be cheaper to get the lowest turn motor and esc or brushless?

watch some vids and then you'll see how much faster they are ;-)
also, cheaper?
well, if you want a good setup for a TC or ST, then it'd be about 250-300 for a decent setup
but, it's about 200 for a good mod/ESC, and with mod, you don't get the power of BL, the maintnence of BL, or the run time of BL

:D
I don't feel like looking for that page number, so here is the list again...
*********
here's a bunch of vids that I have on the net (sorry if some have been previously posted:rolleyes: )

---------------------------
PLEASE RIGHT CLICK / SAVE AS
---------------------------
Kufman's Tc3 with a Lehner BASIC 4200 on 10 cells
Kufer2.mpg (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa4323cc/bc/RC/Videos/kufer2.mpg?BCcssU.AwFCbAfe1)
---------------------------
Ivan's Tc3 with a Lehner 1525/7 on 7 cells
Mercedes.zip (http://home.austrosearch.at/tc3punk/Mercedes.zip)
---------------------------
Ivan's TA03F Pro with Lehner 1525/7 on 7cells
Mondeo5_septdivx.avi (http://home.austrosearch.at/tc3punk2/mondeo5_septdivx.avi)
---------------------------
PedeForEver's Pede with a Lehner 4200 on 10 cells
Speed Video 1.avi (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mvw2/Speed%20Video%201.avi)
Speed Video 2.avi (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mvw2/Speed%20Video%202.avi)
---------------------------
Donnie (from RRH)'s RS4 Pro 3 with Lehner 5300 on 6 Cells
Pro3 Basic 5300.mpg (http://www.rumrunnerhobbies.com/video/MOV00207.MPG)
---------------------------
Donnie (from RRH)'s Emaxx with a Lehner 4200 on 6 cells
Emaxx 1 (http://www.rumrunnerhobbies.com/video/MOV00204.MPG)
Emaxx 2 (http://www.rumrunnerhobbies.com/video/MOV00200.MPG)
Emaxx 3 (http://www.rumrunnerhobbies.com/video/MOV00198.MPG)
---------------------------
Occifer's Video Compilation (done by JeLeak)
misc shots all done with Lehner 1930/5 on 12 cells
well actually, the tc3 vid was only bout 1/4throttle, so it's about 7-8 ish
Brushless Power.wmv (http://brushless.net/blpower.wmv)
--------------------------
Occifer's Emaxx with 1930/5 on 12 cells
First Run BL E (http://www.brushless.net/firstrunblE.wmv)
-------------------------
Occifer's Emaxx, with one nearly dead 2400 pack. this vid shows what cogging is
Cogging Video (http://brushless.net/cogging.wmv)
-------------------------
Kraeuterbutter's RS4MT with Basic 4200 on 8 and 10 cells
BL RS4MT with 4200.wmv (http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Videos2/RS4MT_1_8buggywheels_good.wmv)
-------------------------
JProphet42O's Modified Rustler with a 4200 on 6 to 8 cells
(this is parted up for bandwidth constraints)
BL Rusty 1.wmv (http://roninrc.com/blr1.wmv)
BL Rusty 2.wmv (http://roninrc.com/blr2.wmv)
BL Rusty 3.wmv (http://roninrc.com/blr3.wmv)
BL Rusty 4.wmv (http://roninrc.com/blr4.wmv)
BL Rusty 5.wmv (http://roninrc.com/blr5.wmv)
BL Rusty 6.wmv (http://roninrc.com/blr6.wmv)
BL Rusty 7.wmv (http://roninrc.com/blr7.wmv)
BL Rusty 8.wmv (http://roninrc.com/blr8.wmv)
-------------------------
k_sw31's non-BL Pede :rolleyes:
Pede 1 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa4323cc/bc/RC/Videos/k_sw31+pede+vid+1.WMV?BCcssU.AGo_D446r)
Pede 2 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa4323cc/bc/RC/Videos/k_sw31+pede+vid+2.WMV?BCcssU.AR1_dxggR)
-------------------------
k_sw31's T3 with 5300 on 6
BL T3 1 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa4323cc/bc/RC/Videos/k_sw31+T3+vid+1.WMV?BCcssU.A2MVvoWd1)
BL T3 2 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa4323cc/bc/RC/Videos/k_sw31+T3+vid+2.WMV?BCcssU.A7DxvPvgh)
BL T3 3 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa4323cc/bc/RC/Videos/k_sw31+T3+vid+3.WMV?BCcssU.Awmfb5BLG)
BL T3 4 (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa4323cc/bc/RC/Videos/k_sw31+T3+vid+4.WMV?BCcssU.AY9M4hzpM)
------------------------
someone (sorry, but I forgot where I got this awesome vid from...)'s Brushless Dagger, I'm pretty sure it's a 4200 on 10, but I'm not sure:(
Dagger Back Flip (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/aa4323cc/bc/RC/Videos/Dagger+Flips.wmv?BCcssU.AFrWmQ2**)
------------------------
I'll add more later, but am posting this now, cause my computer likes to freeze whenever I type a post this long, so I don't wanna have to redo it:p

k_sw31

03-10-2003, 11:39 PM

upup, need to correct you again, pede not BL, T3 on a 5300 :) (all 6 cells).

spreckenzy

03-11-2003, 12:11 AM

do or did you like your 5300 in your t3? do you think you would like a 4200 better? I am trying to decide between the two....

k_sw31

03-11-2003, 12:18 AM

Well, I really do like the 5300, it is an awesome motor! But, come to think of it, I would be fine with a 4200. Considering on 6 cells and marginal gearing I dont have enough room to top it out, I would probably be happier with the 4200 because I would have a cooler esc, longer run time, and just the right speed.

In choosing the motor, think about what you will be doing with it. If you have a realativly short driveway like mine, and more places to go off road, you'll be happy with the 4200. If you want to do speed runs and want a real parking lot speed demon, go for the 5300. :D

RadicalRustler

03-11-2003, 10:08 AM

the page with bl vids is on page 74, and now also on this one:D

spreckenzy

03-11-2003, 10:38 AM

thank you for your input k_sw31 i am going with the 4200 for the longer run tiime, less cogging, and the better chance of not using a receiver pack.

rumrunners has been very helpful to me. i call them on the phone and donnie i think ansers all my questions and more.

Hingepin

03-11-2003, 02:52 PM

OK! I have an emaxx, and i want to gt brushless, and i have questions. Would you put TWO brushless motors in an emaxx, or would just one be more powerfull than the existing two? And if i get just one, could you plug 14.4 volts into it with a Y-harness?

Prinler

03-11-2003, 03:23 PM

huh?

one motor one controler and as many packas as you wanna put on it.

2 motor 2 controlers as many packs to each controler you want

Hingepin

03-11-2003, 04:45 PM

Let me clarify that: would one brushless motor with just one 6-cell pack be more powerful than the stock motors that come with the emaxx?

Prinler

03-11-2003, 04:57 PM

oh yeah...
one motor can go faster then stock... but 2 bl motors are amazing. 2 basic 4200 or 5300 will out torque even the larger BL motors. like a blown 454 in a pinto :) YEAH BABY

tc3punk

03-11-2003, 05:06 PM

hehe he Prinler posted before I had a chance, so I'll just say "ditto":p

but I'm not sure that a basic would out-perform stock titans, on only 6 cells

if you had just one basic 4200, and ran on 12 cells, then yes, that would be better, but I'm thinking on 6 cells you would be dissapointed

maybe not tho, cause RRH's video with Donnies Emaxx on 6 cells is faster than what I expected :rolleyes: :)

JonDax

03-11-2003, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Manslaghter
Let me clarify that: would one brushless motor with just one 6-cell pack be more powerful than the stock motors that come with the emaxx?

Probably not, but it's no problem to wire the esc so you can hook two batt packs to it in parallel.

Mr. Constructor

03-12-2003, 04:10 PM

To BJMFH:

The force is with you !! Yoda´s back !!

(my Net is in building process (going to DSL Flatrate)
hopefully this unregular thing will be over after the 10th of april !!)

I´ve found some Infos on the German HP of Lehner wich Originally Said :"Drehzahlfestigkeit 100.000U/min (Serie 10, 15 und 19), 50.000U/min (Serie 22)"

The First mention means the RPM true count !!the series 19 IS able to go 100.000 !! (but as with all systems it will run VERY Hot, my test Motor runs about 70.000 to 72.000 and is still (with only a simulated load of 200 gramms) at a heart breaking temp. of 130° C (wich is almost 20 ° OVER the limit of the Magnet material wich starts to loose power over 110° (around this) )
But the Normal Temp. HAS to be kept under 90 ° C to archieve a very long life, everything above this will destroy your Magnet power really fast !!

To Manslaghter

Go and get a Hacker Maxx Motor, this Motor will have enough power, you will need only one Motor and one ESC (Hacker COMP. is recommended (or lehner warrior 7018) the BEC is used up to 12 cells after this you will have to disconnect it in the Warrior and the Hacker esc only goes up to 12 Cells)
There is a possibility (quite easy when you understood it !!) to use 2 BL on ONE ESC (shown some pages ago, i`m still working on the EXACT english translation)

see ya

OptimaMan

03-12-2003, 06:15 PM

Two brushless motors on one controller. Yes, I would say it's possible. All you have to do is get two identical motors, and have the rotors oriented at the same spot with regards to the coils and then lock them in with two equal pinions gears on the same spur. I would guess you can do this by doing this:

Mount both motors on the motor plate with their pinions on loose (so the pinion gear would spin freely on the shaft). Connect all the motor wire in parallel. Put a single cell on two of the wires and the rotor (the magnet inside the cans) should orient themselves so they're in the same position. With the battery still attached, lock both pinion gears onto the motor shaft.

Now, this is my hypothesis and I believe this would work. Anybody with an Emaxx and two motors and one controller out there? Oh, one thing... the controller should be able to handle a lot of current. I would think something like a Lehner Micro 18150 should do the trick - but with that cost, you can get two Hacker Competitions!!! Oh well...

RadicalRustler

03-12-2003, 08:11 PM

you could try that with two basic 3100's and a competition. Should be low enough amp draw.

fReShJiVe

03-13-2003, 10:42 AM

Schulze , Lehner , Hacker , Aveox Killer

fReShJiVe

03-13-2003, 10:46 AM

Last but not least a nitro kiiler :D

Mr. Constructor

03-13-2003, 12:43 PM

To OptimaMan:

You´re on the right way, but instead of the single cell (wich will have not the Voltage and too high amp drawing) use a normal 12 V 2 Amps power supply (the supply will cut of the Amp very fast but you still have as long as 5 sec. to get the pinions ready (the first one could be alraedy installed.

If you connect the power suppl on two of the three wires (doesn´t matter wich wires,but the 2 Motors have to be soldered together to archieve a more stable magnet rotation)

the magnets will rotate in the same pos. then tighten the pinion, but :

BE CAREFUL with the power supply it has NOT to supply mor than 20-25 Watts of power (12V x 2 Amps) or the windings could be destroyed !!)

This setup works that great, in my 8th truck !!
and the power loss is anywhere around a 2 % (thats calculated out, not measurable low!!)
BE WARNED, this has to be done ONLY with care and patience (and maybe some extra fuses for your power supply !!)

The Truck is running both motors on a 7018/3 Warrior, the torque increases by factor 2 but not the AMP (goes up by 30 %) so you could easily drive a 2 BL system, but you have to be very careful about the installation and the soldering of the wires (best way: same cable lenght on both motors (factory UNCUTTED lenght) and then soldered to the ESC or to some Gold Cons.

See ya (ask me for details if you want, i will help you out !!

To fReShJiVe

Awesome Car !!

I´m very sorry about the prices for shipping and the Bank fees in Germany but the price I gave you for the ESC is exactly the price I will had to pay (sorry, hopefully the Novak is good enough for your applications !!)

Could you describe the cogging etc. for this ESC Motor Combo ??
(I´m still impressed by the Car itself, think I ´ve to buy one . . .)

see ya

unit_4tec

03-13-2003, 02:38 PM

any of ur lhs race brushless? that would be sooo cooL!

RadicalRustler

03-13-2003, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Constructor
The Truck is running both motors on a 7018/3 Warrior, the torque increases by factor 2 but not the AMP (goes up by 30 %) so you could easily drive a 2 BL system, but you have to be very careful about the installation and the soldering of the wires (best way: same cable lenght on both motors (factory UNCUTTED lenght) and then soldered to the ESC or to some Gold Cons.

See ya (ask me for details if you want, i will help you out !
What motors are you running with the esc? Would two 5300's be possible?

tc3punk

03-13-2003, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by unit_4tec
any of ur lhs race brushless? that would be sooo cooL!

yes, people have raced BL
my bud Occifer raced his Tc3, for 8 min, against nitros, and was laping em

and then hist car basicly broke all drivetrain parts, because of the power he had:(

also, just so everyone knows, I have once again changed my mind on BL

I'm not getting a 1930/5 and 18120, but DUAL 5300's, and 7018's

I figure that would be a better setup in my buggy:p

Soya v1.1

03-13-2003, 10:54 PM

I need shocktowers and bulks, but alas; no money:(

spenzalii

03-13-2003, 11:06 PM

too kool freshjive! what is that, a barracuda? If so, I may have to get that R2!
BTW, which setup is that, Novak's?

tc3punk

03-13-2003, 11:27 PM

I'm changing to a dual setup, so I don't have to risk frying the controller, and dual's are bettah anyways
and now I'm more excited bout my buggy than my tc3 (which is why I was getting BL in the first place:p )

but also, occifer want's to maybe buy another 1930 (tri-1930/5:eek: :confused: ;) )

so, I figure I'll let him take that one, and RRH's got tons of basic motors in stock, so now I'll just have to wait a week for the controllers:) :D

unit_4tec

03-14-2003, 04:01 AM

i was just thinking right now just staring at my pc screen wondering if brushless will take over nitro and im thinking that it will eventually take it over! maybe not. If one day the world out laws all burning fuels except powerplants and stuff then brushlesS!!! WILL TAKE OVER!!! hehe! but im seriously thinking about selling my nitro onroad and replacing it with a onroad car with a brushless set up. how bout you guys what would you pick for onroad> brushless or nitro?

unit_4tec

03-14-2003, 04:01 AM

oops double post! brushless RULES!:D

fReShJiVe

03-14-2003, 06:24 AM

mr.constructor - yes i should have email you back about the purchase....go buy the Cuda...they coming to Germany under the brand name Triox

spenzalli - yes it's a Novak setup and a Cuda.....speedtechrc is the distributor for cuda in the US...they just got kits in and all were snapped up already...by the way i'm in no way associated to speedtech they are in the US me in Asia

ViciousKnives

03-14-2003, 09:29 AM

if i have a lot of time on my hands, then nitro all the way for everything, both on and off. if i don't have the time and it's just a pick up and bash, then put away until the next time i have free time, then i'll have to go with electric, but i'd still consider nitro. i remember nitro when i first started it around 10 years ago with the traxxas nitro hawk... horrible experience. but, nitro got better, and i prefer it over electric now.

as for brushless, i guess the not having to change brushes, cut comms, change springs, and eventual buy a new motor is worth it. i'm already noticing decreased performance in my 12t mod since i haven't done any of the above and have had it for about a month and a half now (only use it on the weekends though).

as for those controllers... Donnie at rum runner is pretty funny. everytime i email him, he says he should have it the next week on friday... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: funny. i think i'll email him and just tell him to email me when he actually gets it in instead of him just saying next week every time. emailed him twice since i ordered it on feb 1.

spenzalii

03-14-2003, 09:38 AM

good to know fresh. I'm in the US, and may order one from them. Right now, they are all sold out, with more orders coming in by April. I don't know if they can get a hand on the orange color, but it sure would be sweet! BTW, what's the rumor about a two speed for it?

How did you get a Novak setup already? And more importantly, how do you like it?

spreckenzy

03-14-2003, 09:50 AM

donnie at rumrunners said that i should get my order including a warrior 7018 today!!!! he says he can only get about 100 units at a time. I sure hope i get it today!!!

k_sw31

03-14-2003, 10:58 AM

I like the looks of the novak setup so far... :)

Micha_MX4

03-14-2003, 03:02 PM

Hi guys,

I was running my Predator on the street in front
of our house today.

http://mike-high.bei.t-online.de/pictures/predator/brushless/PIC00004.JPG

Setup: Schulze 58ce SoftwareV15 and Lehner Basic 5300
pack: Sanyo 3000HV matched and pushed by Keil
rx: Sanwa RX-311
tx: Sanwa M8
steering: Hitec HS-5925
gear-ratio overall 1:13 !!!!!!!!

...and STILL TOO FAST... (street is narrow, speed
about the same as my GM EVO3 13turn with 22teeth pinion,
5300 had 16t)

I didn't try different modes although the Schulze has one
that is supposed to be even better for Lehner motors.
I will do that this weekend.

http://mike-high.bei.t-online.de/pictures/predator/brushless/PIC00001.JPG

http://mike-high.bei.t-online.de/pictures/predator/brushless/PIC00002.JPG

http://mike-high.bei.t-online.de/pictures/predator/brushless/PIC00003.JPG

I used 4mm² wires for wiring motor
and battery pack. Connectors 4mm gold batt-esc and
3.5mm gold motor-esc. Actually I think the limitation on
4 inches (100mm) between esc and motor and 8 inches
(200mm) between battery and esc is pretty annoying.
The wires are very stiff, it's hard to fix the esc, no way
to get a low cg - place...
Here's something the manufacturers still have to work on!

Overall the quality impression of the esc ... are all BL esc that bad??? I had to cut the shrink wrap off the heat sink to let
the air cool it (not necessary at 5°C temperature outside)

Brakes are really fine, reverse needs like two seconds to
be activated, no conflict with brakes - very good.

I ran just like 5min so not that much info, but I will post more...

Any questions?

Popop

03-14-2003, 03:33 PM

Time to do 1:8 touring cars guys !
TGX (http://www.rcsaga.com/tgx/) , TGR and HPI Super Nitro are far more interesting street bases for such powerplants !
Even TR-15 Rally or SuperTen can be worth the scale

JeepsDaddy

03-14-2003, 07:14 PM

i am supposed to have the NOVAK Super Sport BL system in my hands tomorrow (Sat) :) :) :) :) :) :) ... if indeed it arrives... i will be racing it in Touring car that night (TC3 on carpet)... and i'll pop it in my XXX-4 on sunday for some dirt action, and give a long ole test report about how it worked in both vehicles...

i'll probably post it in the "general" rc section here at RCCA... (mods may move the thread over to the "electric" forum though)....

i've been waiting since it was first shown in Chicago Years ago... looks like the wait is Finallyyyyyy over....

peace out..... :)

tc3punk

03-14-2003, 07:19 PM

well, I just talked to Donnie for about a half hour:rolleyes:

he said that he got his first shipment of the new warrior controllers today, and got about 20 basic motors...
but, he's got close to 20 backorders :(

but, at least some are getting here...
and hopefully mine will get shipped on Monday:)

WhaDL

03-14-2003, 07:29 PM

I picked up one of the Novak brushless setup's last week at my LHS. Looks like they are available at a lot of shops now.

I also got a chance to race it just the other night, running off-road in a XXXT.

Very nice overall. I just plugged it into the car and it work nice and smooth right off the bat. Didn't have to mess with an Rx pack or anything goofy - this setup was definitely designed specifically for cars.

The only thing I've noticed so far is that the 'stock profile' is quite a bit faster than stock. In fact, I raced it in the mod class in it's stock profile, and it kept up pretty well with all the other mods.

It ran very smooth, had lots of power and not the slightest hint of any cogging. Brakes were also surprisingly smooth, unlike my Lehner where it's a little hard to keep it from locking up the tires.

I also got about 13 minutes of run-time on a 2400 pack, while running hard on the track. That was in stock mode. Haven't run it hardly at all in wide-open mode - there's already more power than I can handle in stock mode.

Looks like Novak did their homework. This setup is ideal for 10th scale racing. And at $240, it's a pretty good deal to boot.

k_sw31

03-14-2003, 10:02 PM

How would you compare the power to say a basic?

WhaDL

03-14-2003, 10:20 PM

Well, I've got a 4200 Basic with a 4018 controller. I haven't really opened up the Novak on the track as yet, but I'd say it is a fair bit faster and definitely has a smoother powerband than the 4200. I would say in particular that the Novak has got more low-end punch with the same gearing (which I've got at 20-87).

I'll be racing the Novak again this Sunday, and my son may put the Lehner in his buggy, so we can compare them head-to-head (even though it will be buggy vs truck). I'll let you know how it goes.

k_sw31

03-14-2003, 10:23 PM

I'm liking the sound of this novak setup more and more...maybe I'll race with it in my B4 in a couple of seasons. :)

crono man

03-14-2003, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by WhaDL
Well, I've got a 4200 Basic with a 4018 controller. I haven't really opened up the Novak on the track as yet, but I'd say it is a fair bit faster and definitely has a smoother powerband than the 4200. I would say in particular that the Novak has got more low-end punch with the same gearing (which I've got at 20-87).

I'll be racing the Novak again this Sunday, and my son may put the Lehner in his buggy, so we can compare them head-to-head (even though it will be buggy vs truck). I'll let you know how it goes.

hey guys whats up...k_sw1 how things with you?:) man this thread approaching the 100 pages fast:D

well WhaDL you brought me back from hibernation i dont know if you got my PM but the novak system is the one i have been waiting for a LONG time(i reserved mine a month ago at my lhs)..as i mentionned in my PM there is a guys over at r c cars..com forums that was saying that the setup lacked the punch of a good brushed 10t motor but then again the review form w i l d h o b b i e s , c o m raves about the torque this motor has!!!so im getting mixed signals so i really i cant wait to see what you think of the system once you try it further in the 'mod' setting!!:) :)
(please ignore my PM if youre reading this:) )

k_sw31

03-14-2003, 11:52 PM

yeah, its gonna hit the 90's soon, and I have been here since the second post in this forum :D (is that a good thing or a bad thing? ;))

crono man, welcome back! long time no see.

All I can tell you is I have heard nothing but good things about the novak setup, and I'd buy one right now if I had the cash! Go for it :)

crono man

03-15-2003, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by k_sw31
yeah, its gonna hit the 90's soon, and I have been here since the second post in this forum :D (is that a good thing or a bad thing? ;))

crono man, welcome back! long time no see.

All I can tell you is I have heard nothing but good things about the novak setup, and I'd buy one right now if I had the cash! Go for it :)

yeah im going for it im just waiting for my lhs to get one!!:D (been waiting so long for this system):)

unless there some really bad reviews i should be getting mine mid april(thats when the second batch will be available according to novak)

keeping my finger crossed;)

Soya v1.1

03-15-2003, 03:06 PM

And I've been here since the third post:D

tc3punk

03-15-2003, 03:27 PM

I've been here since the bout 50th post:( :rolleyes:

spreckenzy

03-15-2003, 04:02 PM

just got my 4200 and warrior 7018 controller yesterday and look out this thing is fast. i am very pleased with it. it does not like going slow. i get about the same run time as in my evader with a stock motor. again very pleased. plenty of torque and more than enough top end. this is a guess but i would say about 40mph!!!!!

oh ya i am running it in a t2 with stock spur 88 tooth (i think) and a 17t pinion. metal diff and idler gear. need alot of room to go full throttle. from a handful of runs the controller barely gets warm. i am keeping my slipper pretty loose and my diff about normal tightness.

anyway thanks to all of you for your helpful posts.:D

spreckenzy

03-15-2003, 04:09 PM

i went to check out my local track and it seems very nice. it will be dry and ready to race on in a few weeks.

my question is what class are the bl motors in? mod? nitro?

RCmaniac324

03-15-2003, 04:16 PM

Some tracks allow you to run BL in the normal electric mod class, but most don't. Those that don't usually should let you run in the nitro class due to the power similarity. I guess what it really comes down to is what your track allows. Ask those who run the track what class(es) they will allow you to enter it in, then enter your car/truck in one of those classes. :) If they say they won't let you enter it period...tough luck. :(

k_sw31

03-15-2003, 05:18 PM

Some tracks also have outlaw classes. Its basically a class where any thing goes. So people run brushless, .21 conversions, etc...:)

tc3punk

03-15-2003, 05:31 PM

if they let you run in nitro, hook up a 10 cell pack, and keel em:p

AznJunkie

03-15-2003, 07:17 PM

spreckenzy throw that into the Evader and tell me if the evader can handle it. :p

j/k

Where IRS with my refund! :confused:

spreckenzy

03-15-2003, 11:37 PM

man i burn idler gears in my evader with a stock motor. if the gears do handle it then the first bump the evader takes at brushless speed will turn it into a pile of dust.

that is a big maybe sorry.

Popop

03-15-2003, 11:38 PM

I really loved to discovered how Airage staff censored the R C S A G A word itself.

It amazed me to see how a mag wants to control a whole hobby.
Seriously, guys, find a more democratic way to defend your business ideas than censoring a politically correct site and R/C devotion.

Is it so bad to list all worldwide R/C car manufacturers and B/L Manufacturers as well ? Is it so bad to promote cheaper solutions than largely mediatized "big-names" ?

Bye guys

AznJunkie

03-15-2003, 11:40 PM

It's ok spreckenzy. I was only joking. I finally got my refund check. I will be ordering The novak BL system soon! :D

I'll let you know how my evader will handle it.

tc3punk

03-16-2003, 12:09 AM

crono man

03-16-2003, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Popop
I really loved to discovered how Airage staff censored the R C S A G A word itself.

It amazed me to see how a mag wants to control a whole hobby.
Seriously, guys, find a more democratic way to defend your business ideas than censoring a politically correct site and R/C devotion.

Is it so bad to list all worldwide R/C car manufacturers and B/L Manufacturers as well ? Is it so bad to promote cheaper solutions than largely mediatized "big-names" ?

Bye guys

nobody leave without the mighty crono mans approval...just joking:D

seriously popop your info has always been very valuable to this thread and by staying and making this thread even longer well youll make a stronger statement then by leaving!!you will be sending a clear message to the most evil of all empires the big 'T' that their days of shoveling crap into our faces are counted!!
airage will start covering BL stuff they dont have a choice its the futur of electric rc!!and even the hobbies insider know that the brushed motor days are numbered;)

crono man has spoken....

spreckenzy

03-16-2003, 01:19 AM

i have a feeling the evader will do moderately alright with the novak ss on the stock setting. just dont collide with anything. i dont know. I have had almost every part break on that evader.

just got my t2 done and i really like the way it handles. maybe that is because of the brushless setup though! man the thing is fast. when i jump it off of bigger jumps, it kinda uses the wind to sail in the air before it starts its decent.

i wonder if i put a wing on the back of the truck it would jump/fly better?

thanks for the racing info everyone!

RadicalRustler

03-16-2003, 01:54 PM

popup, you sent a complaint about the sensoring of rc_saga, right? Because it shouldn't be. Say that sensoring trinty, or Orion, should be in effect b/c the smaller companies like dudeman have little known web sites. Or that helping rc people by collecting links is against big names, when those big sites are listed on there!

Don't leave us! We need you!

nitrorulz

03-16-2003, 06:09 PM

Guys I gotta a question about the new Novak. I've been very excited about it coming out and now I want one, except, now some people are telling me I won't like it in a Stampede. Not enough torque! I've heard, yes, more than enough torque, and now, no, not enough! I want this truck to be decently fast, decent low-end, a wheelie here or there, but not on its lid every pull of the trigger. A stampede is actually just a bigger, 2wd stadium truck, so what gives. Will it be good or not?:confused:

mcquto

03-16-2003, 06:29 PM

I bought a Novak BL last friday but it was bad out of the box. It had no power and top speed was about jogging speed. After one lap the controller was hot. I put my old gear back in the car and am waiting for a replacement. I will be putting it in my XXX4. Lets see how many front arms I can go through now?:D :D :D Does anyone have any gearing suggestions for me.

tc3punk

03-16-2003, 07:58 PM

in a pede, you'd be much more happier with a basic 4200 motor and a warrior controller

the novak that's out now is made for TC's and pans......:rolleyes:

nitrorulz

03-16-2003, 08:08 PM

If I was to go with this 4200 and Warrior I keep hearing about, will I need a seperate receiver pack, or does it have bec and if it does, does it work! Also, what about all the cogging issue's I keep hearing about. Will this system do that? I'm trying to get BL package this week, so I need some answers, thanks!

RCmaniac324

03-16-2003, 08:45 PM

Yes, the Warrior has a BEC that is functional upto 12 cells, at which point you MUST remove the BEC jumper and switch to a reciever pack. According to Rum Runner Hobbies cogging is most often found in Lehner motors that rev over 4500 RPM/Volt, so with the 4200 you should experience minimal cogging if any. I, however, own the 5300 and it's fussy in my truck...can't nail the throttle off the line or it doesn't keep enough current to start itself, can't do rapid recoverys from spin outs very well, and a handful of otehr little problems like this...I am personally thinking of selling my current Warrior/Basic 5300 setup and getting a system that is much less fussy then this, although I'll deal with it right now b/c of the pure speed!!! :D :p

Any $200-250 range suggestions for low-cogg systems so that I may try to make the choice to stick with my current system or sell it and get another??? I've heard the Novak is really good and very smooth, but isn't good for truck aplications...is this true?

k_sw31

03-16-2003, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by tc3punk
in a pede, you'd be much more happier with a basic 4200 motor and a warrior controller

the novak that's out now is made for TC's and pans......:rolleyes:

If you get a basic for your pede, you will definatly need steel yokes and a metal idler gear, for sure :)

RadicalRustler

03-16-2003, 09:40 PM

two things:
1. Do i need the steel yokes and aluminum idler for my rusty w/ a 5300/warrior 7018?

2. If i do need them, how long do you think stock ones will last?

This isn't a maybe, b/c i know they are going to brake, but how long before my bushings (yes, bushings) will last on the back? This is so i know how much i have to work to get the carriers/bearings.

k_sw31

03-16-2003, 10:26 PM

Well, with my 5300 in my pede, I blew the idler in a minute flat. So that is a definate yes, and chances are the grub screws on the yokes backed out and stripped the threads, so you might want those.

I'd say the bushings will go pretty fast, considering how soft they are, its really worth your while to pick up the RPM ones (atleast for the rear...)

:)

crono man

03-16-2003, 10:47 PM

dont know if this is old news but to the people that are interested in the novak BL system,kerryG over at w i l d h o b b i e s, com tried it out in his stadium truck and even has a small video!!
check out in the forums under the "rc electronics" forum:)

BJMFH

03-17-2003, 01:06 AM

I hate to be such a d*ck, but I gotta do it. The current generation of Warrior ESCs are horrid. That's why so many people are having all kinds of problems with them. Sure they're great for the budget-minded BL hobbiest, but they suck as far as performance is concerned.

I refuse to use a receiver pack. I had to use a receiver pack on my Tamiya Blackfoot's mechanical speed controller, never again. A receiver pack, to me, represents everything that is ghetto and cheap. Receiver packs are evil; no one will ever convince me otherwise.

If you really want to get into BL, save up and do it right. Get a controller with a decent amp rating, at least 80 continuous and 100 peak. Buy something with programming options, mainly a current limiter; this will pretty much eliminate all cogging issues.

A few months back I ordered a 7018 from Fine Design. They didn't have any in stock so they shipped me 4018 instead. I installed it in my TC3 and hooked it up to my 5300. It wouldn't even turn the wheels on the ground. I had to lift the car up off the ground, apply gentle pressure on the throttle, and then quickly throw the car on the ground as soon as the wheels started to spin. After the car finally started moving I couldn't even full throttle it; if I did, the car stalled.

This situation was unacceptable to say the least. I called up Fine Design and asked them if a 7018 would clear up my problems. They said that it wouldn't. I asked them if a Hacker Competition would eliminate my problems. They said it would. I ordered one and it did, destroy my problems that is.

I'm not sh*tting on what anyone here owns, but d*mn the Warrior speed controllers suck! You know it and so do I. Everyone else should know it too.

The Novak system is supposed to be quite nice. From what I've heard it doesn't offer the balls out performance of some of the german offerings, but it is track friendly. The video of the T3 at *********** is pretty impressive. I'm still waiting to see one in person before I render my final judgement.

All I'm trying to say is if you're going to go BL, don't buy a Warrior. If we stop buying this trash they'll stop putting it out. I know, the 100 dollar price tag looks really attractive but you have to resist. Most decent brushed ESCs cost more; that ought to tell you something right there. Get the Novak system or save up for something faster/better. Well it's late and I'm trashed out of my gourd, good night!

P.S. Don't buy a warrior! If you do, I'll come by your residence and donkey punch you when you're not looking!

Prinler

03-17-2003, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by mcquto
I bought a Novak BL last friday but it was bad out of the box. It had no power and top speed was about jogging speed. After one lap the controller was hot. I put my old gear back in the car and am waiting for a replacement. I will be putting it in my XXX4. Lets see how many front arms I can go through now?:D :D :D Does anyone have any gearing suggestions for me.

HAHA that BL for ya. its week :( i dunno ... maybe the UPS guy Zapped my motors or something. Put them in the nuker and killed them.... hell if i know why BL is so slow for me .... or others. then others get MAD CRAZY POWER

Selling my C50 Sport ESC 7018 and 5300... MSg me on any IM

Simen123

03-17-2003, 06:12 AM

BJMFH: How smooth is the Hacker competition? Can you give it full throttle from a stand-still without it cogging? Would be nice with a comparison to a Brushed esc. I use a warrior 7018/basic 4200 myself with a reciever pack, and I would prefer something a bit smoother without having to use the reciever pack..

spreckenzy

03-17-2003, 09:58 AM

i think using a rx pack is a small price to pay for the power and affordability of the warrior/basic combo.

i have a warrior 7018 and a basic 4200 and yes a rx pack would help.

the only rx pack i know first hand is the 4 aa harness. what is a good rx pack that is small, rechargable and light weigt? any suggestions?

WhaDL

03-17-2003, 10:05 AM

Have you guys tried using those baby 1/3 AA NiCad's for your Rx pack ? I use four, and run them in parallel with the BEC from my Warrior 4018. The weight is approximately 20g, which is just about how much weight my Basic 4200 saves over a stock brushed motor.

My radio also has a charger that's got a plug for the radio and the Rx pack (since that's what Nitro guys need, as well). So I just plug both in at the same time - not much of a hassle.

And since I run the BEC in parallel with the Rx pack, I can get away with such a small pack and run all day. I have an Airtronics receiver, and the company said it could handle the two inputs in parallel (both connected and supplying power).

The setup works pretty good. It has absolutely no cogging, even from a dead start up a hill or even rolling backwards. Hard acceleration or easy. It may look just a little goofy, but I don't run it with the body off, so I really don't care.

'Course, I also have a Novak, which I like better, and it doesn't require a Rx pack. But if you want to run with more that just 6 or 7 batteries, then the low-end Lehner controllers seem pretty decent to me.

BTW, you can get those little batteries from various airplane sites.

Simen123

03-17-2003, 10:32 AM

I use 5AAA batteries as a rx pack. It isn`t as a large as a 4AA pack, but I would still prefer not to use a reciever pack, and a smoother controller (The warrior still cog`s even when using the rx pack).

WhaDL

03-17-2003, 11:25 AM

I've tried a number of configurations for an Rx pack, and the only thing that has eliminated all cogging is the 4 AA's (1/3 size or full size) run in parallel with the BEC. I tried the same setup without the BEC connected as well, and that still cogged.

But I never did try 5 cells. Maybe that was the problem. I was always a little nervous about running the BEC in parallel with the Rx, but I've done it now for several months, and it's still working fine.

Note that the 1/3 AA's are so small that I just tape them to the top of my battery bar. You hardly even notice that they are there, and the bar puts them in the center of the car. You can also adjust them forward or backward to eliminate any front/rear weight bias.

WhaDL

03-17-2003, 11:27 AM

Oh yeah, Fine Design also recommends running an Rx pack in parallel with the BEC.

BJMFH

03-17-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Simen123
BJMFH: How smooth is the Hacker competition? Can you give it full throttle from a stand-still without it cogging? Would be nice with a comparison to a Brushed esc. I use a warrior 7018/basic 4200 myself with a reciever pack, and I would prefer something a bit smoother without having to use the reciever pack..

You can full throttle it using a 34 tooth pinion gear and a 72 tooth spur gear uphill and it will not cogg. You can full throttle the Competition right after a spin out and there is no hesistation at all. The power delivery is super smooth. It's better than my old Novak Super Rooster, which was really good. In short, the Competition rules!

I don't why they edited out w*ldh*bbies in my last post?

k_sw31

03-17-2003, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by WhaDL
Oh yeah, Fine Design also recommends running an Rx pack in parallel with the BEC.

How do you run a rx pack in paralell?

WhaDL

03-17-2003, 12:17 PM

Well, your receiver has to support it. Mine has a separate input for the BEC and the Rx pack. So I just plug in both connectors.

I also put both inputs on a double-pole switch (one switch, but it handles two signals), so that I can turn off the receiver even when the main battery is connected to the controller. This appears to work as well as having a switch that turns off the controller, which the Lehner doesn't have.

k_sw31

03-17-2003, 01:29 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by a seperate input for the BEC and the Rx pack. Do you think you could provide a pic to clear things up? I have an Airtronics reciever that came with my MX-3.

WhaDL

03-17-2003, 01:50 PM

Here's a diagram of my receiver from the back of the manual. The Rx pack plugs into the Battery/DSC connection, and the BEC plugs into the throttle connection.

Simen123

03-17-2003, 03:14 PM

You can full throttle it using a 34 tooth pinion gear and a 72 tooth spur gear uphill and it will not cogg. You can full throttle the Competition right after a spin out and there is no hesistation at all. The power delivery is super smooth. It's better than my old Novak Super Rooster, which was really good. In short, the Competition rules!

Sounds very nice. How are the brakes? Has anyone tried the Hacker C40 6T btw? after what I have read it sounds like a fast motor.

BJMFH

03-17-2003, 04:31 PM

The brakes are awesome. The only problem is, unless your transmitter has a way to dial back the braking power, you'll lock the wheels every time unless you have great trigger control. If you gear your car to moon (34/72) and perform top speed/hard brake runs, by the third battery pack (switching packs immediately after one is drained) you won't have brakes. If you gear your car fairly normal 26/72, the brakes won't fade at all.

This weekend my buddies and I had an endurance test of our own. I wanted to see if my setup, Hacker Competition, Lehner 5300, FT TC3, could run for 4 hours straight. I sorta duplicated the Tamiya endurance race in a school parking lot. We all combined all of our battery packs and chargers together. I geared the car pretty low, 18/72, but it still ran for four hours straight. I just kept running the car around in a huge oval. The only breaks were when we had to change the batteries and dump all the dirt out of the car.

In the end the motor and speed controller were pretty hot. They weren't too hot to touch, but they were still pretty warm. My tires are now completely bald.

Simen123

03-17-2003, 04:37 PM

It sounds like a great controller. The only problem is that I think it is too large for my xxx-s :( Guess I would have to get a short servo, if the controller was going to fit. Sounded like fun to run 4 hours on a oval :D

RadicalRustler

03-17-2003, 05:25 PM

How fast were you going?

RCmaniac324

03-17-2003, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by WhaDL
Have you guys tried using those baby 1/3 AA NiCad's for your Rx pack ? I use four, and run them in parallel with the BEC from my Warrior 4018. The weight is approximately 20g, which is just about how much weight my Basic 4200 saves over a stock brushed motor.

My radio also has a charger that's got a plug for the radio and the Rx pack (since that's what Nitro guys need, as well). So I just plug both in at the same time - not much of a hassle.

And since I run the BEC in parallel with the Rx pack, I can get away with such a small pack and run all day. I have an Airtronics receiver, and the company said it could handle the two inputs in parallel (both connected and supplying power).

The setup works pretty good. It has absolutely no cogging, even from a dead start up a hill or even rolling backwards. Hard acceleration or easy. It may look just a little goofy, but I don't run it with the body off, so I really don't care.

'Course, I also have a Novak, which I like better, and it doesn't require a Rx pack. But if you want to run with more that just 6 or 7 batteries, then the low-end Lehner controllers seem pretty decent to me.

BTW, you can get those little batteries from various airplane sites.

WhaDL- A few questions on this. First, does this eliminate ALL cogging, even with full throttle from a dead stop? Second, would a Futaba 2 channel AM reciever be able to handle this voltage? Third, about how much would those four 1/3 AA cells cost? I am asking because I really love the speed my Lehner setup gives me, but hate the cogging, and figure making the said small reciever pack would be much cheaper and easier then selling my current one and buying another.

yf22k

03-17-2003, 06:30 PM

what i did since my schulze 18.61 controller does not have bec was to hardwire the battery wires on the controller to a connector that fits in the receiver battery slot. My receiver accepts up to 10V so its safe since i only run 6 cells. I get no cogging and it runs smooth

OptimaMan

03-17-2003, 06:32 PM

Simen123:

XXX-S with a low profile digital servo still won't be able to fit the Hacker Master controller (I have the XXX-S also). If you decide to get the Hacker Master, make sure you get the competition and not the sport because I had the sport and it had some hesitation - enough to make it useless for racing purposes. I hear you can fit that controller in a TC3 with a short servo though.

I have the Schulze 12.97 fwe which is flatter and lighter than the Hacker Competition and can be heatshrinked right onto the battery mounting strap - sure, the R/L balance is slightly off, but I can't tell on track too much. I can also gear it to the moon and on asphalt and smooth running, it's fine - but for super high traction carpet with foam tires it does overheat and shut off after 4 or so minutes when using a Lehner Basic 5300 with 23/90 pinion/spur (keep in mind the internal ratio is like 1.83:1). I've gone has high as 27/90 and it's really fast for oval or straight line - mid to high 30's mph. When racing, I use a 20 or 21 tooth pinion and it's plenty fast. Feels like a 10-11 turn brushed motor.

Regarding the Hacker C40 6 turn, that's the motor I run now on my XXX-S. It's got way higher RPM than the 5300 and more snap and power. I gear it 15-18 tooth pinion/90 spur and it's so fast, it's crazy. Because of all the RPM, throttle control is actually smoother and easier for high traction carpet sedan. I haven't yet geared it crazy, but man, if you could only get 1 motor for your XXX-S, get the C40 6 turn. Just make sure you get a controller capable of almost 100 amps!!! The Basic 5300 is nice, and makes for insane 2wd mod truck and 4wd buggy, but not enough RPM for my insane taste for touring cars. I think the C40 is like an 8-9 turn brushed motor. This motor almost hits 7000 rpm/volt... I can't wait until somebody comes out with a motor that can hit 10,000 rpm/volt.... there is one the 15 series motor but it can't handle too much power...

OptimaMan

03-17-2003, 06:37 PM

BTW, anybody actually compare the Novak SS bl system? It's rated at 5800 rpm/volt so I would expect it to be slightly faster than the Lehner Basic 5300....

but then again, my Hacker B50 6S was rated at 6150 rpm/volt and it feel SLOWER than my Basic 5300...

So, any real comparisons out there? Or do I have to buy one to test it myself????

yf22k

03-17-2003, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by OptimaMan
Simen123:

I have the Schulze 12.97 fwe which is flatter and lighter than the Hacker Competition and can be heatshrinked right onto the battery mounting strap - sure, the R/L balance is slightly off, but I can't tell on track too much. I can also gear it to the moon and on asphalt and smooth running, it's fine - but for super high traction carpet with foam tires it does overheat and shut off after 4 or so minutes when using a Lehner Basic 5300 with 23/90 pinion/spur (keep in mind the internal ratio is like 1.83:1). I've gone has high as 27/90 and it's really fast for oval or straight line - mid to high 30's mph. When racing, I use a 20 or 21 tooth pinion and it's plenty fast. Feels like a 10-11 turn brushed motor.

Regarding the Hacker C40 6 turn, that's the motor I run now on my XXX-S. It's got way higher RPM than the 5300 and more snap and power. I gear it 15-18 tooth pinion/90 spur and it's so fast, it's crazy. Because of all the RPM, throttle control is actually smoother and easier for high traction carpet sedan. I haven't yet geared it crazy, but man, if you could only get 1 motor for your XXX-S, get the C40 6 turn. Just make sure you get a controller capable of almost 100 amps!!! The Basic 5300 is nice, and makes for insane 2wd mod truck and 4wd buggy, but not enough RPM for my insane taste for touring cars. I think the C40 is like an 8-9 turn brushed motor. This motor almost hits 7000 rpm/volt... I can't wait until somebody comes out with a motor that can hit 10,000 rpm/volt.... there is one the 15 series motor but it can't handle too much power...

Yeah i like my schulze because its flat and small. I have yet to overheat it yet. I'm running a 5300 motor geared at 44/88. Its very fast and i get about 10 min run time. if i gear it 42/88 i get about 11.5 min runtime.

is the hacker c40 6turn a sensored motor? i'm wondering maybe i should get that or a 1520/6. still deciding.

Hey Prinler i sent you a pm..just wondering how much ur sellign the 5300 for.