need help with a idea

[rcelectricflyer]

hi im not a boat modeler but i need ur help with this idea because i fly planes not real but rc and i was just thinking could i get a scale carrier with three floors and land a plane on it . please dont think im crazy

[Watercadet]

Must be a pretty good Pilot :D How big were you thinking? As far as I know there are no kits of carriers that are that large in scale but you could always build it :eek:

[scorpien boats]

wow! that will be realy cool if you could pull it off!!!!!

the only problem is, i think you woud have to build it from scratch

....if you do make it, keep us posted!!!

[rcelectricflyer]

ok i will i think it is possible because they used to do that with C/L planes but it was in a circle:) im young like realy younge like 9 almost 10 in june and it wont be dont for a long time
the good thing is i will mabye be alive when its done how big should it be

[Hydro Junkie]

The question should be how large of planes are you looking at flying from the deck? Back in WW2, the largest carrier based plane was the Grumman Avenger, with a 50 foot wingspan. The smallest "fleet" carrier they flew it from was the Enterprise. If I remember my specs right, the Enterprise was about 800 to 810 feet long, with a flight deck width of 108 feet. Using those sizes for scaling and a straight flight deck (not the angled deck like the modern ships) you would need a flightdeck 16 times longer and roughly 2.5 times wider than the planes you plan to fly from its deck. Using these numbers as a base to go from, if you have a plane with a 56 inch wingspan you will need a ship 75 feet long and twelve feet wide. I don't know all the specs on the Independance class light carriers, except that they were 620 feet long. Smaller still was the escort carriers, at 500 to 550 feet. This works out to a 58 foot Independance and 47 to 52 foot escort carriers. Remember that this is for a scale ship to plane sizing. You can get away with somthing much smaller, if you're not worried about scale. It would have to be longer than the take off and landing distances the plane uses on the beach, so you're still looking at a large ship, most likely over 30 feet in length. Just a word of caution, with something this large, the Coast Guard will have to inspect it and it will need a license, just like any other boat over 12 feet long. If I remember right, you will also need a building permit due to its length. To give you a comparison in sizes, to build the Enterprise in 1/72 scale it would still be 11.25 feet long and 1.5 feet wide. At least you could build it with a full airwing of off the shelf plastic model aircraft.

[Foggy bottom]

hi im not a boat modeler but i need ur help with this idea because i fly planes not real but rc and i was just thinking could i get a scale carrier with three floors and land a plane on it . please dont think im crazy
No not crazy but i think I would do this first:
take some tape out to your flying field and make a tape carrier deck, this would test your skills and allow you to see how big it would need to be. after you can land on this REGULARLY I would make a box "carrier" in your field at about 6 inches high, then later taller this way your skills improve with the challenge.
Dave
chief engineer , go-fer & bilge cleaner
FOGGY BOTTOM'S BOATYARD

[Hydro Junkie]

I've got a question for you, Foggy Bottom. Are you or have you been associated with Naval aviation? The reason I ask is at all naval air stations, the runway's have a carrier landing area painted on one side of the runway the same size as on the carrier deck. This lets the pilots practice their carrier landings before they actually go to the ship. Your suggestion closely resembles what they have been doing for years :)

[Foggy bottom]

I've got a question for you, Foggy Bottom. Are you or have you been associated with Naval aviation? The reason I ask is at all naval air stations, the runway's have a carrier landing area painted on one side of the runway the same size as on the carrier deck. This lets the pilots practice their carrier landings before they actually go to the ship. Your suggestion closely resembles what they have been doing for years :)

Sure, Was MATS aircrew (VR-7) then spent 4 years on the aircraft recovery team at primary flight school, pensacola.
And yes the navy HAS been doing that for years and it makes sense for him to do it too might save a whole bunch of work and expense!

Foggy Bottom

[Hydro Junkie]

The reason I asked was I spent three years at NAS Whidbey Island WA attached to VAQ130 as an AT. I remember many days and nights out on the flightline while the aircrews did touch and go's getting ready to go out for work up's and deployments

[losiXXXman]

Interesting idea friend.. I have also pondered the feasability of such a project, although my experience in planes and boats is extremely limited. Throwing scale out of the window, seems feasible to build a carrier perhaps 10-12 feet long, maybe 3 feet wide, with basically just a flat deck. Using a small "park flyer/ slow flyer" and MUCHO practice to perfect your landing judgement, I think that it would be possible. I would suggest a cargo net at the forward end of the landing strip to prevent loss of aircraft if speed could not be bled prior to touchdown. And if you really want to make this project sparkle, the carrier could be built with a catapult launch system much like small electric DF jets use. Heck, why don't you even have the boat be R/C, then the captain of the ship may be able to the landing process by adjusting his speed while you are on final, in an attempt to "rendezvous"...Though they never flew from carrier decks, the Wattage F86 could make an excellent test subject for the plane...


Anybody else??

[ScottOram]

Wow.. Have I been down this road before...

I am currently building a 1/144 scale USS CONSTELLATION (http://cvrc64.greatnow.com). And every time I talk about it with my fellow R/c fanatics (Plane guys) they always talk about landing on it.

Well the 1/144 scale planes are only inches long (about the length of a ballpoint pen), I stepped up in scale to 1/72 the ship would be about 15' long (Mine is 7'8").

Now the practical side of it. I was recently a special mission crew member in the S-3B Viking and have had the privilege of landing on a carrier 58 times. What I can say about this is its all about glide slope, speed and alignment. As you guys know.

Being in a third person position, you may get the glide slope correct, but aligning the plane on the deck would be next to impossible form the side.. and vice versa from the end, you would get the alignment closer, but the slope would be all over the place until the last seconds when corrections tend to be to abrupt. Either way, would probably result in a damaged ship and a destroyed airplane.

The solution would be a wireless camera mounting in the airplane. that you could judge distance, angle, alignment, etc. Wow what a task.

I would love to see it happen, but what a task it would be...

AME1 (AW) Scott D. Oram, USN
ALSS Branch Supervisor
Patrol Squadron TWENTY-SIX
NAS Brunswick, ME

[Rex R]

I imagine it would take a good bit of practice(and luck) to catch the #3 wire on a scale carrier. as for a cat pnuematic would likely be the best choice. likely a sprinkler valve would work nicely to trigger the ram(or if you find those too small I know where to find bigger ones :))
er, how long a cat would you need? I know of some folks who would prolly find designing a 'cat' fun, I could ask them if you like.

[Rex R]

what is takeoff speed? and weight range of the aircraft?

[Rex R]

no text

[CG Bob]

About 15 years ago or so, I was attending the Toledo show and talking with Lee Upshaw of the Scale Shipyard. A gentleman came up and showed us some pictures of an aircraft carrier that some of his airplane club guys made. They had r/c'd some of the Guillow's COrsairs, Wildcats, etc., and built the escort carrier to roughly the same scale. The ship came out abot 22 feet long; and was crewed by 2 club members. One club member controlled the electric trolling motor, while the other guy released the tail hooks and refueled the planes. The club was upset because the state made them put the state license numbers on the hul near the bow.


Back in WW2, the largest carrier based plane was the Grumman Avenger, with a 50 foot wingspan. The smallest "fleet" carrier they flew it from was the Enterprise.
TBM/TDF Avengers (http://www.acepilots.com/planes/avenger.html) were flown from CVE's (jeep or escort (http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/carriers/cve.htm) carriers). The average escort carrier was 500 feet long, 65 foot beam, with an extreme width (flight deck) of 105 feet.

[skipgall]

a cat would rip a model plane apart. as you bird farmers know the plane takes 2.5 seconds and gets up to over 100 mph.
i dont think a model plane could land on a deck even one on a practice field painted.
as stated be for the angles wount work with out a camera.
skip
MR2 Ret. USN

[ScottOram]

A rubber band or compressed air may give your the push you need.

[bob best]

I'm not into planes, but you-all need to think about scale speed. sometimes you just can't do in models what is realistic in full size. for instance, if your landing speed in a model plane is say 50 miles/hr and your scale is 1/4"=1ft. than your scale landing speed is 2400 miles per hour. what's that , about mach 3 or more. i dont think anything lands at that speed.
good luck
bob

[Rex R]

was talking with some folks on another forum, pnuematic(compressed air) should be easy to do. we just need some numbers to design it.

[ScottOram]

I'm not into planes, but you-all need to think about scale speed. sometimes you just can't do in models what is realistic in full size. for instance, if your landing speed in a model plane is say 50 miles/hr and your scale is 1/4"=1ft. than your scale landing speed is 2400 miles per hour. what's that , about mach 3 or more. i dont think anything lands at that speed.
good luck
bob

The landing speed of an Full Sized Aircraft is 120 knots or (.83 Knots at 1/144 scale) this is a little less than 1/2 Mile Per Hour for a scale aircraft.

[bob best]

hey scott
think of it this way. if your plane is half size, you are compareing in to miles that are full size. in other words 120 knots at 1/144 scale would be 17,280 knots at scale speed.
just think if your plane went 1/2 mile per hour it would take 9 seconds to cross a 12ft room. only a baloon or helicopter goes that slow.
bob

[Doc]

rcelectricflyer,
Is it possible to build one? Sure. Is it very practical? No! Think about it. How are you going to 'do' an arresting system? How good of a flier are you, as in can you hit exactly the same spot on landing every time? The relative size of the plane determines the relative size of the carrier. Gonna need a trailer hitch on the pickup just to drag the thing to the pond (BIG pond!). [I don't think I wanna thing about the license you'll need to float the carrier!]
- 'Doc

PS - Nothing like being a 'kill joy', huh??

[ScottOram]

But in looking at scale spped you have to look at Proportion. Every thing is proportional in perspective.

My Carrier for example, A Full size carrier goes 30 Knots. But if my scale carrier went 30Knots it woudl looke like a fulle sized carrier going over 4,000 Knots. So for scale proportion, I only need to go about 4 knots of actual spped to equal the proportional speed of 30 Knots.

The smae with flight. Only goign 1/2 mph in actual speed being the equivlent of 120 mph of actual. What that does show, is how slow the planes have to go to land onthe boat. Just a 10 to 15 mph over stall speed.