1/8th scale Electric Racing!!!

[Craps]

This thing is a rocket on a pair of TP8000-2S4P 7.4 volt each batteries, but I have got bugs to work out of it. It has drawn alot of attention at the track and I am going to get it to run a 20 minute main.

I had a blast running this weekend and have yet to actually test it with my work takening me out of town, I had no choice but to race it.

This thing has almost fired me up as much as when I first discovered the Li-Pos greatness.

The pair of TP8000-3S4P 11.1 volt batteries should be in this week which should give me even more power that I hope will cool it off some.

This thing is a rocket!!!!

Stay tuned!!!!!

[Muck]

I love reading about the 1/8 scale brushless buggies, it seems like a good way to go. I would like to get into it someday, but it's hard to know where to start. It would be nice to some how start off with setup that has proven results. Oh well, someday!

Keep up the good work.

[Craps]

Actually it is alot of fun working the bugs out of it, but the base line with the motor, ESC and batteries is the important items to start with that would work with any current 1/8th gas buggy that could be stripped of the motor and fuel tank to add a motor mount plate for the electric motor with the right pitched pinion gear to match the buggy's center diff gear.

These buggies can take alot more abuse than the standard RC model and slamming into each other under racing conditions are a blast.

I hope to have pics posted in the future when the bugs are worked out and I have already been contacted about selling a conversion system for 1/8ths with Li-Pos and brushless. It may happen sooner than you guys think.

The big problem is the 1/8th is a heavy RC vehicle and needs alot of motor/battery to move it.

Stay tuned!

[DualBL]

craps, please email me @ admin@dualbl.com
I'd like to talk to you about the conversions that you may be selling.
thanks
-Nick

[Craps]

Nick
You have mail!

[Craps]

Who is going to spend around $1,200 on a brand new RTR 1/8th scale that still needs batteries and a reciever/radio?

We are talking about a Hot Bodies Lightning Pro 2 with a Hacker B50 10XL and a Schulze 18.97KWF ESC. All would be mounted up with a pinion gear and the buyer would just add they're batteries and reciever/radio to go racing.

Add 2 TP8000-3S4P Li-Pos for another $490 and you have a $1,690 RC vehicle. Who is going to pay that much to have the dominate 1/8th scale at the track that may outlaw it as soon as the gas guys get they're buttt kicked with it????

Not the little kids that post on this web site that complain about spending $20 for Nickel battery packs.

This is for the serious electric racers that truely appreciate the need for speed on an off road track and willing to spend the time and money to achieve it. Not a very big market! Besides it is a blast to run in 1/8th scale to bang off each other.

[Craps]

Nick
I viewed you're web site and seen you're OFNA electric project. The main things I question about it are:

1. 2 motor system along with they are mounted very high in the chassis that is going screw up the roll center of the buggy since they are so heavy. Can't you invert the mounts to the underside of the diffs placing the motors near the floor of the chassis which leads to room for batteries problem. I am using a 1 B50 10XL motor, which is a very long heavy motor that is tweaking the mounting plate, but we are fixing that problem on the Mugen is by adding an aluminum motor cradle in the back that happens to line perfectly where the gas motor mounts to the floor of the chassis. The heaviest thing in my buggy is the motor and it is down low and as close to center line of the chassis as possible.

2. Nickel Batteries??? Everybody knows where I stand on this subject along with the extra weight the nickels have make them harder to tie down. I am still in the testing phase on this and waiting on the TP8000-3S4Ps to come in.

I am not bashing your buggy, but just wondering if these are problems you are experiencing with it. I am after the long runtime combined with speed to blow a gas buggy away and heat is my biggest enemy right now in the closed body of the buggy that I have vented out and I am getting ready to add some fans.

Good Luck!

[Simen123]

I would not pay that much..
A conversion kit, with a good motor-mount, a pinion in the size you would like, and maybee a chassis with slots, or room for cells would be perfect for me, at least.

I guess the conversion kits wouldn`t be so different to fit each manufacterers (spl?) kits, and that way people could buy a used and less pricey buggy of whatever brand they want or use the one they already have.

I`ve been thinking a bit about getting a mp7.5 sport from rcmart, sell the engine and other nitro-related parts, then the price of the rolling chassis would be about 200$ :)
Many people already have some brushless equipment and many sub-c battery packs, and would maybee like to use that to keep the price down.

[Craps]

A good used rolling chassis would save you around $300, of course doing the machining and assembly work would save alot of money. Nickel Batteries are also big cost savings, but also adds weight and can not come close to matching the power, runtime and performance of the considerably lighter Lithium Poly batteries that keep the total weight and center of gravity down lower in the buggy along with not taking up as much room in the buggy to allow for better air flow inside the buggy to cool the ESC and motor off.

All depends on what route you want to take and you can always upgrade later.

[DualBL]

Craps, I've thought about all the points you made.

for the motors, I may be able to raise the the differential, and put the motors near the chassis, but then the center axles would be at bad angles, and I would either have to shorten the chassis (bad), or find some axles that are longer, and possibly stretch the chassis' wheelbase (good, but may be costly). a plus side to motors being up high, is that they'll have lots of air flowing around them, but like you said, a High CG is never a good thing.

I'm still waiting for the prototype chassis to arive to me, to layout more of the finer details, but have already come up w/ some ideas, that I'll be re designing from the picture that's on the site at the moment.

I was hoping to have the final design done by the end of this month, but the prototype was damaged while being shipped from Germany to the states, so they had to make a 2nd one, and it hasn't been shipped yet.

I know, you, me, Chris Fine (of FineDesign, Brian (outkast of Bomb-Proof), and Andrew (Cold Fusion Racing) are all working on getting kits out there, and I know that as soon as one of them becomes popular, major companies (ie traxxas, ofna, kyosho) will probably make factory kits, and all of these custom kits that we're working on now will soon be forgotten. that's just what my magic 8 ball tells me tho :p

-Nick

[DualBL]

also, Craps, I've set up a message board on www.darkside-racing.com

http://s92675604.onlinehome.us/darkside/phpbb2/

I made a section for you, if you want to use it or not, just let me know, but I think it'd be a good place for everyone to share their news, and experiences...
lmk, if you like that idea or not, and lmk when you you get your ideas into production, or whatever, and what your company name will be :)

-Nick

[Craps]

Just got back from the meeting and we are not going to make conversion kits due to the price is just to much versus just buying a gas one or three by the time you get through.

We are also replacing and reengineering Chris Fine's motor mount hook up that bends real easy with just the torque of that big B50 10XL.

Waiting on the pair of 11.1 volt Li-Pos to test.

[TeamTEOR]

Hey Craps, Do you have any pics? I would like to see what kind of motor mount you guys are using and support on the center diff. I am going to try to draw up a set of supports if I can figure out this cad program. Also, I might be letting go of my new unused B50-10XL. I am not sure yet.

[Craps]

No pics yet. Maybe after Saturday somebody will take them and post them for me.

We just made another aluminum motor mount that was thicker with smaller holes that replaced the thin one Chris Fine had made in it. It is not very hard to do if you have access to a Bridgeport mill or CNC machine to make out of aluminum and just copy the bolt pattern and holes of another model allowing for the bigger gears. On the mugen you can remove the brakes and use the holes for the brakes along with drill and tapping another one for extra support in the rear bearing support tower for the center diff that has the gear mounted to it.

Keep in mind that the B50 10XL motor is long and heavy motor that needs an extra heavy duty mounting plate. It also has a 5mm pinion shaft that a friend of mine sells the gears for.

I have also added 2 motor heat sinks with an added cooling fan above that will work with extra cut out scoops in the body to hopefully when the pair of 11.1 volt batteries are hooked will allow a 20 minute plus run. I would love to see 50 minutes non-stop, but that may be a bit over optimistic.

I did not realize that so many racers read my post that are from my area where I race.

[Craps]

Well the Thunder Powers are on backorder, but I am switching to the newer TP7600-3S4P with a higher discharge rate of 10C versus the 6C of the TP8000s.

Well maybe a week from today I will have them!!!

It's fast with 14.8 volts, but it has to be alot faster with 22.2 volts.

[alpinesky1]

Craps - What kind of buggy do you have?

Can you compare your BL buggy, to your BL T4.

(i have only owned a rc10 car, rc10gt, xxt, rc10t3) and have never drivin a 1/8th scale buggy, i asked before but no one awnserd back.

I was thinking of getting one but insted wanted to make my own rc car/ but i just have no will to do it, (would rather have a full size 120' x 70' off road/ supercross type track for my rc truck) a track with hugh jumps, and back to back timing jumps(like i said before a supercross track:D )

So when you drive it again in full tilt race trim(e.i. 22volt;) ) can you tell me how hard or easy it is to drive compared to your truck that had the Hacker C40 8T.... does the 4wd help alot, what does it fell like jumping, turning, stability, everything???

Thanks

[Craps]

Easier to drive fast, more bullet proof and heavier. The BL systems are very different from the lite weight truck to the heavy buggy. On a small off road track I run on the buggy turns around 17 second laps with the truck around 19 second laps.

It takes alot of battery/motor to move the buggy.

[Craps]

Practice today with some cheap heat shielding made out of poster board with a heat resistant core. Worked good for 97 cents for a 2' by 3' sheet. Never thought I would have to heat sheild an electric.

Tore up another gear today when the back of the motor can slid back lettiing the pinion shaft and gear move back tearing up the gear. Epoxy does wonders at holding things together.

Still waiting on the pair of 11.1 volt batteries coming in next week.

Weekends are for racing!

Andrew
Bring the camera tomorrow to the Hobby Stop. I'll be there with my crowd of Li-Po electric racers. They want me to come there instead of Lance's.

See ya!
Tim

[Craps]

Hingepin post pics of my buggy in the "Electric Forum".

[jnegrx]

Where are the pics of your buggy?

[Craps]

Here is a link to Hingepin's pics of my buggy:
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/405cf8ed_15416/bc/21cd/__sr_/5a5e.jpg?ph6DQXABz44EJiPn
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/405cf8ed_15416/bc/21cd/__sr_/cb94.jpg?phfGQXABH_D_z8bJ

[Hingepin]

There:

[NitroBoy24]

I swear I will never get tired of looking at that buggy :D

[Hingepin]

Hey craps, what are the specs of the motor and controller, and where did you get them?

[jnegrx]

I'm very interested in making my own buggy but run time is very important.

What is the average run time of your buggy?

We race 45 minutes to 1 hour A-main so this is the limiting factor for me.

[Craps]

Fine Design RC: www.finedesignrc.com

Motor is a Hacker B50 10XL
ESC is a Schulze 18.97KWF
(See Hacker and Schulze Specs on Fine Design's web site)

The Mugen comes with an aluminum center diff towers, remove the brakes and have somebody with a bridgeport or a CNC machine make you a motor mount, order some Mod 1 carbon steel (important) gears with a 5 mm bore or get 6 mm bore with bore reducers to 5 mm and lots of commercial grade velcro to tie everything down along with zip ties.

You will also need an Ultimate BEC from Kool Flight Systems: www.koolflightsystems.com

Make sure every bolt and screw is loctited or it will come loose.

The weight of the buggy and the abuse it can take is alot, just make sure everything added is secure and padded for the extra abuse it will recieve.

Also you will need to vent the body very well like mine, add heat sinks to the motor like mine and I like the ESC mounted up high behind the big hole I made in the windshield to keep it cool.

As far as runtimes go, I am still testing it and trying to debug the pinion gear wear problem. Been using stainless steel gears that tear up rather quick, but I just ordered some carbon steel ones that should work.

The new pair of 11.1 volt Li-Pos should make it even faster and I will get some run times when I get them.

I don't think see being able to run 45 minutes, but I think 20 to 30 minutes is realistic. A 20 minute main with a 3 minute warm up should be no problem.

[DualBL]

I don't think it'd be that bad to have a pit stop to change batts.
make it easy to take the body off, unstrap the batts, throw new ones on, and put body back on wouldn't take that long
i wouldn't think it'd take more than a min, and in a 45-60 min race, 3 of those wouldn't be that bad
just imho
-Nick

[glassdoctor]

The problem with running a 45 minute race is the cost of 3 sets of lipo packs! Can anyone say $1000?

It looks like $700-900 for three 8000+mah 11.1V lipos. Ouch.

I would love to do a BL 1/8 buggy. I have a Hacker EMaxx now, but we know how well a maxx handles BL power....

Craps, I am very ineterested in how the lipos are working for you. I have heard they don't handle shock and abuse very well... such as a very hard impact. I would hate to burn up a $225 battery cause I cased a big jump,etc. Sounds like they are working great for you.

Also, I wondered about their ability to handle the current draw and how quickly they can be recharged. If I had one pack, could it be recharged as soon as it's cooled ofter a run? Can you run the same lipo 3 or 4 times in a race day?

Thanks.

[glassdoctor]

What do you think of this? I have a C50 in my Emaxx. One of the local tracks runs 15 minute gas mains. Right now I have to do a battery swap, or strap in two sets of my GP3300s... works, but it's heavy.

If I had a 3s3p 8000-9000 MAH Lipo, I could get three 5 minute heats out of one charge, and then recharge for the 15 minute main. Or is it better to just top it off every run?

Do you think I could get by with a 3s2p pack? In other words, would a 4500Mah lipo be enough to handle the current of a Hacker C50?

Assuming @10C rated cells. I can do the math, but I haven't heard feedback from real testing.

Thanks again.

[Craps]

Originally posted by glassdoctor
The problem with running a 45 minute race is the cost of 3 sets of lipo packs! Can anyone say $1000?

It looks like $700-900 for three 8000+mah 11.1V lipos. Ouch.

I would love to do a BL 1/8 buggy. I have a Hacker EMaxx now, but we know how well a maxx handles BL power....

Craps, I am very ineterested in how the lipos are working for you. I have heard they don't handle shock and abuse very well... such as a very hard impact. I would hate to burn up a $225 battery cause I cased a big jump,etc. Sounds like they are working great for you.

Also, I wondered about their ability to handle the current draw and how quickly they can be recharged. If I had one pack, could it be recharged as soon as it's cooled ofter a run? Can you run the same lipo 3 or 4 times in a race day?

Thanks.

Give me about 2 weeks when I get the new TPs in and the gear problem worked out, I will give everybody my testing results.

As far as cost goes, better not be on tight budget with anykind of custom made prototype using batteries that are way ahead in the future of Electric RC racing. The batteries I am getting may hardly ever be taken out of the buggy. I am dedicating 2 Astro Flight 109 chargers just for the buggy and as the pictures show, I am charging them in the model, which is supposed to be a no no!

It usually takes 1 hour 15 minutes to fully charge the TP8000-2S4P battery on an Astro Flight 109. It takes about 45 minutes to charge the first 95% of the battery capacity with the last 5% taking 30 minutes to peak the battery. So If I need it take it off sooner. The buggy I hook it up as soon as I finishing running to keep them peaked while I am doing other work to the buggy. Working the bugs out of it has not let me run the battery out yet, so I really don't know how long it will run yet.

As far multiple cycles and abuse on the TPs, they are tougher than you think. Hingepin has seen what they will take and they are not a "glass jaw" to the buggy. I have not had heat problems with them yet, but keep motor heat away from them or any battery as far as that goes. I have repeaked the batteries probably as much as 5 to 10 times during a day. That was repeaked them after every run I made, not completely recharge.

I think a new pair of 11.1 volt TPs will be almost $500.

Give me a little time and I feel sure 20 minutes is no problem, but 30, 40 and 45 minutes maybe pushing it.

I hope answered all of your questions?

Good Luck!

[Craps]

Maybe Hingepin will post his opinion how my 2 TP8000s that is 14.8 volts worked in his very fast E-Maxx compared to running on his 14 nickel cells at 16.8 volts. He only ran through one complete cycle of the batteries with a 6 minute race and what seemed like 30 minutes of bashing around after the race with the E-Maxx and 1/8th scale beating and banging on each other.

They are a tight fit into the E-Maxx trays, but I think Hingepin used some Velcro straps to tie them down.

As far as battery heat in the Hingepin's E-Maxx was barely warm versus the nickel packs he took out after a heat race was very hot. Hingepin needs to add more to this and how the stock Titan motors held up heat wise along with the stock ESC.

Saturday was fun!

This Saturday I think I am going to Easley, SC to race.

[Hingepin]

yes it was very fun to just drive for 30 minutes straight. Even though the lipos are 2 volts less than my 7 cells, they are still powerfull. And you could get the 11 volt ones to fit in an extended chassis, along with a brushless motor, it would be unstoppable. I think the lipo's got just about as hot as my 7 cells, which is pretty nice because i ran them for 30 min straight. My motors, however, got too hot to touch, but they are just the stock titans.

[Craps]

We got to get you a pair of C50 Hackers with a Schulze 18.97KWF ESC to light that fire with a pair of 11.1 volt Li-Pos. The Hobby Stop track is not big enough for that monster. Wow!!!!

[FLYBOY7]

a C-50 off of 11.1 volts is pretty dern fast in an E-maxx.... it might not be quite as fast in an 8th scale... but...

if you took two 11.1v 8000 mah packs, and wired them in parallel, you'ld end up with 11.1v and 16,000 mah with twice the current capability....

right now, in my B4 geared 20/81 with a novak BL, i use roughly 2000 mah for a 5 minute race... so a 16,000 mah pack would last me about 40 minutes... (not that i'ld have room for two 8k packs)

if you use 3000 mah every 5 minutes in a C50 powered 8th scale while racing (probably a conservative figure), you'ld be able to run slightly over a 25 minute main on a 16k pack...

insanely long by standards of just a couple years ago.... but still not close to an hour main (which are very rarely used)...

[jnegrx]

All i can say is that this looks great.

But i'm sure everyone wants more pics please.:D

[Hingepin]

Craps, are you going this weekend to rock hill? I wanna try and get some pics of it on the track.

[Craps]

I think I am going to Easley on Saturday to race.

But we do need to get one of those shots with it jumping with some major air like 10 to 15 feet in the air like it did while we were bashing around after the race last week.

I will be at Cherryville Sunday and there will be some T-Maxxs there.

[NitroBoy24]

Do any of the guys you know have a video camera?!?! I want to see that baby in action!! Pics will also be accepted :D

[Hingepin]

actually, i have a video camera, but its really hard to get the videos posted. I have to find a way to change them from .avi to .mpg because the .avi is really big. Im gonna try and get FTP hosting on my extra computer soon, so i might be able to post them in a couple weeks.

[Craps]

Nick
I am going to be at the Hobby Stop tomorrow, so bring your video camera. It is still ripping up gears, but you can video till they are gone.

[OptimaMan]

Craps, can you get plastic spur gears to work with your project? When I used to run my emaxx with the hardened steel spur gear, all my pinions would just be eaten alive (even with slipper clutch) after only a few packs. Even the hard carbon steel kinds. Ever since I went back to plastic spurs, the pinion doesn't wear out anymore.

[alpinesky1]

actually, i have a video camera, but its really hard to get the videos posted. I have to find a way to change them from .avi to .mpg because the .avi is really big. Im gonna try and get FTP hosting on my extra computer soon, so i might be able to post them in a couple weeks.

Hingepin - Go to cnet.com under downloads, there are alot of .avi to .mpg converter software for free(also they have evey type of converter there,e.i. divx, .avi, .mpg, .tiff, etc to anything...)

I really want to see a nice video of a brushless 1/8th buggy, to deside if i should save up for one or just keep playing with 1/10th trucks :confused:

If you do get a vid, try too get a nice long one ;) , and mabey a nice jumping/bashing vid..... Can anyone say 20-40foot jumps :D , Come on Craps u know you can do it for us :p ;) :)

BTW does anyone know where i can download BL 1/8th buggy vids (coldfusionracing doesnt work :( ) HELLLLLLPPPPP!!! ME WANT TO SEE BL BUGGY GO FAST, VERY VERY FAST :D

I just love rc cars..... To bad 1/8th buggys are $500-$700 just for a roller, i think i get a used one if i do get one, Have my eye on the Kyosho 7.5 II or III, or MBX5 :cool:

the one thing i think is cool , are the yellow/blue/red/purple tires, just like dirtbike tires, some people dont care for the but i think there the BIG NIPP TIZZEL :p

[alpinesky1]

Hingepin - btw just get or if you have KAZAA(u can get it for free) just put the video/videos in your shared folder and tell us when your on and name the video, Name it something like , Crapsbrushlessrc or something, then one of us can down load it and share,e.i. my computers on 24-7 so anything i download anyone can get it,(i got very fast cable eternet) Cheaper the web space ;) , Let me know.....

[Craps]

Well I quess my next step is to switch out the main gear from metal to plastic. Maybe 32 pitch and I can buy E-Maxx gears with a 5mm bore 32 pitch pinion gears. I wonder if the E-Maxx gear will mount on the center diff of the Mugen. I am sure a dremel can make it work.

[DualBL]

I'm wondering what a mugen diff looks like...
on the hyper7, the gear is part of the differential. on the mbx, the gear is a seperate part that screws on. I need to find a good center diff, where the gear screws onto it, cause i don't know of how to get the plastic emaxx gears onto my hyper7 diff.
when you get some pics, Tim, can you snap some of the diff also for me :)
oh yeah I'm working on putting all the vids and pics from cfr's site onto www.darkside-racing.com so those should be working soon. and if you get a vid or something, i can host it for ya, no prob.
thnx
-Nick

[Craps]

I think I have my problem fixed, I will know more after I test it at the track. After futher investigation with the motor, the B50 10XL is such a long motor with a lot of stress on the long motor can has movement with the huge amount of torque it has. I locked down the rear of the can temporarily with zip ties and 13 gauge wire under the can to shim it off the chassis pan. The zip ties are temporary until I can I have something machined, but they go through the gas motor mount holes making a loop around the motor can to pull it securely down to the chassis preventing any flex in the can.

If this works, I have one made from aluminum to pinch the motor can and screw in where the gas mounting hole are located.

Prototypes are a trail and error process and I do not know why the previous owner did not work out these bugs.

To the track to hopefully get some runtimes!!!

[alpinesky1]

Craps or anyone - if i do get a mbx5 or other, (long time mabey after the summer, when the buggs are worked out) could someone make a motor plate for me, e.i. (anyone that has accsess to a cnc mashine) , i dont know anyone with one, and who ever can make one for me ill make it worth your while :) (ill pay a good amount for the trouble)..............plus theres no way i could do it cus i dont have the use of my hands(prarolized).... Anyone Let me know :)
Thanks
Gary

[Craps]

Tore up another gear in heat 1, so I took it apart and got out the zip ties and did some race track engineering to fabricate a motor cradle to pull the back of the can forward and keep it from moving. More epoxy since the other broke loose. Missed the 2nd heat. Got a local electric hot dog to drive it in the main that drives my 2nd T-4 for me in mod electric class due to visiting 1/8th scale hot dog kicked my novice buttt in the 1st heat bad.

In the main my driver warmed up for about 2 minutes and jumped out with a holeshot and started to battle for the lead with the 1/8th hot dog. He finally broke out front and stretched the lead out to 2 laps after the gas guys made they're 2 pit stops till around the 19th minute it ran out of battery with a minute to go in the 20 minute race. It was sad to see it sitting there while the 1/8th hot dog was making up his 2 laps winning the race. Oh how I wish we had the time back from the 2 minute warm up.

But anyway the batteries were the hottest I ever seen them and 1 was even swelled up slightly. I placed the batteries in a secure location till they cooled down and took them home a recharged like nothing happened. These batteries really are tough and I hope the new 11.1 volt ones will help with the heat on the long race.

I also read the Schulze ESC instructions and found out I had too much timing for the Hacker motor and I changed to the very softest timing setting on the ESC to increase runtime and reduce motor/battery heat. I'll test it today at the track.

As far as the Hacker motor can needs a cradle built to keep it from moving, so I go the machine shop on Monday to have one made for it.

[Craps]

Alpinesky
Call Chris Fine and buy one of his conversion kits for a Mugen or maybe DualBrushless will make you one for an Ofna.

Fine Design RC's web site: www.finedesignrc.com

[Craps]

Now I am really sick to find out my buggy lost by only 8 seconds after running hard for the 1st 19 minutes. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[glassdoctor]

Craps, maybe I missed it... what motor and gearing are you running in the buggy?

I assume you are using the lipo packs in series, for 14.8 volts? So when you get the 11.1s are you going with 22.2 volts, or will you go for crazy 40 minute runtimes at 11.1v and 16a/h?

[alpinesky1]

Craps - Thanks i email Chris F. cus i would like the mugen mbx5.....

QUESTION : is it me or do the Kyosho 7.5 and Mugen buggys look almost alike..... Its like looking at a Camaro and a Fire Bird :rolleyes:

i think craps runs a Hacker B50 10XL and a Schulze 18.97KWF, not sure of the gearing, but i think hes going to run the 2 11.1v lipos to get 16,000mah or 35-40mins of runtime :cool:

[Craps]

Hacker B50 10XL motor with a Schulze 18.97KWF ESC with 2 TP8000-2S4Ps 7.4 volt batteries that give a total of 14.8 volts.

I am waiting to get in the new pair of TP7600-3S4P 11.1 volt batteries to give me a total of 22.2 volts at 7600 mahs of capacity.

14.8 volts @ 1580 rpm/volt = 23,384 rpm
22.2 volts @ 1580 rpm/volt = 35,076 rpm

[Rotary Rocket]

Craps,

If one of your LiPos swelled up I would not charge it again!

I have read it will lose capacity, and since you are running it in series with another 2S4P it might create a "cell imbalance" situation and possible fire situation (specially since you mentioned you charge the batts IN you buggy).

I am also very curious about what gear ratio you are running.

I wonder if you are overgeared, and thus your heat problems.

I am trying to convert my OFNA 9.5, and have a 51 tooth (max) center diff to work with.

If .21 motors are turing 22K+ rpms then we can start our gearing at about the same to ever lower teeth than the gas versions. So a 12-13 tooth pinion (mod 1 gears) would be in order.

What do you guys think?

[Craps]

The battery is fine. They are tougher than the stories you have heard. It has charged up ok and I have retired it to the stadium truck. I do charge them in the buggy, but each battery has it's own charger.

We ran it with a 15 tooth gear, but I am suppose to be getting some 12 and 14 tooth gears from Jamie (305597 or Star Luck RC) and besides I think the pair of 11.1 volt batteries will take care of alot problems. The spur gear is a 44 tooth stock Mugen gear.

[glassdoctor]

Are you planning to gear down with the 22.2 packs then? That could help with the runtime and still be faster.

+7.4 volts is a lot! :D

Was the speed about right for racing on the current setup with the 7.4 packs? Just curious if you are after more power, or had plenty/too much already?

[Craps]

Are you planning to gear down with the 22.2 packs then? That could help with the runtime and still be faster.

+7.4 volts is a lot! :D

Was the speed about right for racing on the current setup with the 7.4 packs? Just curious if you are after more power, or had plenty/too much already?

Right now we have used the 15 tooth pinion with the stock Mugen 44 tooth spur gear. I have 12, 14, 15, 16 and 18 tooth pinion gears on the way. I will more than likely go with the 14 with the 7.4s and the 15 or 16 with the 11.1s when they get to me. Still waiting!!!!

It is faster off the corners than any gas buggy, I may give up a little on top end to the best modified buggy.

I am after more power in search of more effiency with less heat to lengthen runtimes. Wow!!! I can't believe I said that. Plus there is plenty of room in the buggy, so why not cram it full of battery.

[OptimaMan]

Woah craps... you actually want to drop a pinion or two going with 22.2 volts. In another thread, I've figured out your RPM at maximum efficiency and you'll be going approximately 50% faster if you stick with the same pinion. So if you're already going 30 mph, you'll be going 45 mph and pulling MORE amps and MORE heat. A better place to start would be to go to 10-12 teeth pinion gears. You'll still be faster than with 14.8 volts and have more run time (so you can race the full 20 minutes this time).

In addition, if one of the cells have swollen, I would definitely take it apart and remove the swollen one. It DOES cause "imbalance" within the pack and forces the non-swollen ones to work harder. Take it apart, peak charge each cell independently, and reassemble/reconfigure it. You'll have to get another cell or you can convert it to 2s3p and use it for 1/10 scale 2wd buggies or trucks.

[glassdoctor]

If it's a shrink-wrapped pack like TP, can you be sure which cell bloated?

[OptimaMan]

Yeah, just cut off the shrink wrap. Find which cell is bloated, remove it, reassemble pack, and re heat shrink it.

[glassdoctor]

K, I didn't know if they stayed bloated...

btw, have you guys checked the prices for Schulze stuff lately? Is it me, or it higher every week?

finedisign now only lists four controllers on their site... 18.61 $225 and the 18.129 $393 are the cheap ones...

[NIC]

Today was the 1/8 Kanai buggy´s first run this year after a long winterrest (same as the bears :)). And I have to agree with Craps`s threadtitle.................... :D !

NIC

[Hingepin]

Hey craps, Whats new with your buggy? did you go racing last friday, and have you tried different gearing yet? My ESC for my E-maxx just started smoking, so i have to get it replaced by traxxas, im pretty sure its covered in warranty.

[Craps]

Hey craps, Whats new with your buggy? did you go racing last friday, and have you tried different gearing yet? My ESC for my E-maxx just started smoking, so i have to get it replaced by traxxas, im pretty sure its covered in warranty.

No racing this past weekend due to being out of town since the beginning of last week. I will be back in town Thursday night and will be practicing and racing at Cherryville Friday and Saturday. They are having a big money race in the Open Buggy Class with $200 to win and alot of area buggy hot dogs are coming in to win the 20 minute race. I still do not have the backordered 11.1 volt batteries in and will be crap (no joke) shoot for Chris P. to finish the race much less win. I quess no warm up time will get it past 20 minutes.

[glassdoctor]

Well, at least you/he will be running a tested setup, gearing, etc. with the 7.4s...

sounds like a fun weekend...

[Craps]

OK I have to caved in on the 5C discharge rate of the current Li-Pos that TP is making will not work for longer than 10 minutes, but the new 10C discharge rate Li-Pos that are getting ready to come out should do the trick for the 20 minute run along with bumping up the voltage from 14.8 volts to 22.2 volts.

I had my local electric hot shoe on the radio in a big Open Buggy money race. He got the hole shot and took off to an almost 1 lap lead in 11 minutes on a field that included a nationally ranked 1/8th scale driver with Kyosho backing until we almost popped one of the batteries that had a bad cell in it from previous testing. It had made it 11 minutes before this happened and I think there was enough in the other battery to just barely go the distance. Well we turned some heads and they knew we were there.

The buggy is going to be parked until I get the new 10C Li-Pos from TP that can take the long the higher discharge rate on the longer runs.

You guys that are reading this and wanting to use the TP Li-Pos in 1/10th scale RCs will be fine and should never have a problem with the TP batteries like in my 1/8th scale that is pulling about 4 times the motor current and weight that the typical 1/10th scale has. I have never had a problem with the TPs in any of my 1/10th scale RCs at all.

Also the TP Li-Pos never exploded or blew up like all of the stories you hear, but it did swell to about 3 times it's normal size in the back part of the battery pack. It has not went back down and has been placed in salt water overnight. I will be sending it back to TP for them to further inspect them and to replace. The 1/8th buggy is the ultimate test for the Li-Pos that should be about as harsh as anything you can throw at them with no fires or explosions.

These are great batteries and I hope the new 10C discharge ones can hold up in the 1/8th scale.

Pretty good for a stock Mugen MBXR-4 buggy that has the big bore shocks added.

Well it's back to waiting on batteries and some re-engineering on a few other things with the buggy.

[n2rcn4fun]

hey craps ron here in Va i read a post said that u did the go kart scene and the arca thing well....so did i ...u must live in NC email me i am building a bl emaxx....ever go to kings.......stocksdale..lmk n2rcn4fun@aol.com

[Craps]

n2rcn4fun
Been to Stokesdale a couple of times and never been to King. I don't think I will make up to either track this year due to there are plenty of tracks close to Charlotte. I am planning on running at Lance's, Rock Hill and Cherryville tracks mostly along with the track in Easley, SC. I have not heard anything good about King.

If you know Will McIver and his dad are friends of mine.

If you are building an E-Maxx with Li-Pos, make sure you get the latest 10C discharge batteries for it that are getting ready to come out.

My go-kart days were in the 80's with ARCA and NASCAR Sportsman days during the early 90s.

Come on down and run with us. Racers with electric 1/8th scales are not to hard to find at the race track.

[microrcdude]

Now I am really sick to find out my buggy lost by only 8 seconds after running hard for the 1st 19 minutes. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:Gather up your pitcrew, and practice them pitstops!!!!

[Craps]

Gather up your pitcrew, and practice them pitstops!!!!

I don't won't to make pitstops! Nonstop and faster on the track to boot = serious gas buggy buttt whooping!!!!

Let's put that question to bed about which is faster, Gas or Electric??? ELECTRIC

[n2rcn4fun]

welll craps my karting days were also in the 80's ran with stacy comptom....had a good engine builder ..wesly gregory..i guess u heard of him,,, annd was liberty fast or what ....i still have my 80's dirt lazer one of the first ones built by lewis....i have family in rock hill....any way come on down to roanoke or the tiltyard some time....my guess is we have race against eashother in the 80's....ron

[Craps]

Wow!
Wesley Gregory and his wife Sandy. He was runner up to me for the WKA national championship in stock heavy in 1985. I drove for Bob Getty that year and the year before I drove for and won Glenn Kenworthy his first national championship.

My back is now paying me back for all the years of abuse racing karts, so it's the safety of RC racing that you can't get hurt. Wait a minute, turn marshalling the 1/8th buggy or T-Maxx classes is not exactly safe either and those drivers stands are pretty high up there.

Maybe someday I'll make it to Homer's track that I have heard alot of great things about and he likes electrics too!

[n2rcn4fun]

wellll..i bought a chassis from bob...but i forgot the name of it...i don't race but my son does the rc stuff..i pay for it all and fix it all...since he is only 6.......and well he can hang with the big boys..lol check him and our local track out at [url]www.roanokeraceclub.com. he had second in 4wd mod yesterday it was a 3 way battle but he reced and finished 4th..not bad considering everyone else is 30 plus older... :)

[Craps]

Jason at Thunder Power educated me today on running Li-Pos in series. I used the 1st battery I bought that had alot more cycles on it than the 8th battery I bought that I matched it with that was almost new. Well they need to be matched up as if they were one big battery with all cells closely matched in cycles used or the new one will tear up the old one.

So in the future you guys wanting to use Li-Pos in series need to make sure and use matched up pairs of batteries. It would not hurt to do what I did not do and that is to consult Thunder Power on the application use of the battery for better advice on this.

These are still great batteries.

[Craps]

They edited my title to the thread! I quess I should not have referenced it to sex due to the wifes or girlfriends that read this might not like competing with a "toy car"!

Oh well, I am kicking around the idea of getting four TP6000-3S3Ps 11.1 volt batteries with 2 pairs each in parralel and then the pairs hooked in series to give me 12000 mahs @ 22.2 volts to put some long distance fire in the wire. Of course they would be the new 10C discharge ones. I have measured the buggy and this would cram about all the battery I can fit under the body of this beast. It would be heavier, but so far weight has seemed to help with the extra power and it is very hard for a gas buggy to slide into it and knock it off of it's line. Being the only electric running with gas makes you want to paint a bulls eye on it so they can know which one to hit.

Any comments to parralel and series of 4 of these batteries?

I would think all it would take is 1 bad cell to ruin the other 3 packs at close to $800 worth of batteries. Maybe I can get a 45 minute buggy yet!

[Craps]

Just got notified on the web from a track owner of track here near Charlotte that is having a big buggy race that will have around 50 entries this weekend that we can't race the buggy due to fact that he is afraid of having problems.

I have tested it there, but never raced it. I quess he heard about the race last weekend from some of the racers that were there getting they're butt kicked by a "Flashlight" powered buggy.

These guys just can't handle getting they're ego's busted that an 1/8th scale electric buggy can beat them in a 20 minute race.

Well there are a few track owners that don't have a problem and alot of novice buggy guys that think it's great for someone to build something different.

This track owner has flattered me in the highest way to get banned from a big race because your equipment is too good!!!! Wow!

[Signats]

Craps,

I wanted to PM you this message or email it to you but that dosen't appear to be an option. Please don't construe this as a personel attack in any way, just my perceptions that just so happen to be somewhat tainted with disappointment.



Well if you excersize the same level of diplomacy at the track as you do on these forums is it really any wonder that they are starting to blacklist you?

I appriciate all the information you have shared with us over the past few months in regards to the Lipo batteries, and the 1/8th scale buggy, and brushless motors and controllers.

But these are grown men you are dealing with and they have invested large sums of money to race toy cars and recreate with like minded individuals, and then you come along with your much easier to drive and tune electric buggy that dosen't need pit stops, and on top of that you bring in a local "hot shoe" to drive it for you!

Did you ever miss an opprotunity to rub it in their faces?

Do you think the hardcores will miss you comradarie at the GAS buggy races?

C'mon dude if the thing is so great it will sell itself, you don't have to push it so hard.

I am sorry you have been banned from that race, I like reading about how your buggy performs compaired to the nitro buggies, but I am not at all surprised by this unfortunate turn of events.

Craps I consider you an ambassador for the future of electric racing, and it seems to me that you have let us all down.

Perhaps my perceptions are 100% wrong, I really hope so.

All the best.

Signats

[Craps]

Signats
Thanks for letting me down easy! :D

But I expected this happen and I was warned by Chris Fine it would happen due it to happening to him too. They would not even let him practice at the track where he was testing it due to busting egos of the gas guys who think they have the fastest RCs in Off Road Racing.

Again I am flattered that I am not allowed to run at a track that is going to host a pro race that is part of the national pro series. Now how would that look an electric buggy kicking all those pros butts and making it look easy.

Besides I was not planning on racing there on regular basis anyway and the other tracks I run at have no problem with me racing there.

[glassdoctor]

Hey Craps, I kinda thought the same thing really... do you act like you are putting down the gas guys, like you are making fun of them, or do you just play it cool and mind your own biz?

Have you tried to work something out to make them happy, like offer to make the same pit stops or something?

You could get some of that "freeze" spray in a can and stop and spray the motor and esc... :)

Maybe promise to gear it so that you have equal or less top end than the others?

I have had similar concerns about running electric and winning... that's when there is a problem. As long as you don't win nobody will care...

The only time I could agree with the track disallowing electric is if it's an official ROAR event.

Have you asked why they don't care about the outlaw .26 motors... but no Hackers?

Also, I wonder if they could complain if you ran with mech brakes? I have thought about converting a 1/10 gas truck to BL with lipos and run with the gas class. And if the gas guys have fits aobut it, I thought about offering to run a "stock" disk brake setup to make it fair and more like a true gas truck... only with an "electric piston" ;)

[Craps]

glassdoctor
No most of the gas guys think it is really cool what I have done. It is the so called pros that really have problem and let me mention that the guy who owns the track just happens to win both the gas truck and buggy classes there. The track is right beside his house and he may fear losing his dominance at his own track.

I think that was an important detail I left out.

Alot of the novice to average racers are all for what I am doing including a few other track owners that think that this track can no longer claim to having the "fastest 1/8th scales in the southeast".

I have always viewed the 1/8th scale buggy class as the Formula 1 of off road racing. I quess that has changed to another limited class status.

Get away from the mech brake idea. Just offer to make a stop and go pit stop during a 20 minute race. Alot of the gas guys can run a 20 minute race with just 1 fuel stop.

You know you can have all the power in the world and you still have to hook it up to the race track, so in other words you can have too much power with gas or electric.

Good Luck!!!

[racinlosi]

Wow man...that's bull *****! I'm in the LONG(13 suck when you need money) prosses of making my own 1/8th BL buggy. I hope that never happens to me just because it's too good! And also...why do you always use Li-Pos instead of NiMH cells and what do you think of the new 3600 cells in a buggy?

[Craps]

Why use 3600's when I can use 8200's that weigh less than the nickel batteries?

[racinlosi]

Because of the price... and what kind of charger can charge those also? I would love to, but the price! And how long can those last? Do oyu think you can give me the "Pro's and Con's" to both please?

[mikeyr00]

Where are you guys getting the module 1 pinions? I've looked just about everywhere for them and can't find a single place that clearly sells 1M pinions. I've thought about removing the metal spur from my Ofna and installing a modified Robinson 32P with 32P pinions. I'm probably going to run two modified motors and a Novak super Rooster until I get all the bugs worked out and then order a BL setup. What RPM/V motors is working the best. I was looking to keep the buggy around 30MPH so I was think 2,200 with 14 volts or so. Not for racing, just bashing. Any thoughts? Great thread by the way.

Mike

[Mr. Constructor]

The pros from Lipoly:
great energy to weight ratio; NO memory effect, could be charged everytime; are smaller ate the same mAh ratings or have bigger mAh when the same size but weight is nearly always better

the cons of lipoly
you need a special charger otherwise they might be destroyed; the cut off voltage shall never exceed the 2,9V range, so there must be cut off circuit or better built into the esc already (first one on the market: www.Kontronik.com, the JAZZ series) and the cells don´t like it to be overloaded, so you have to charge them separately to get the best results, then put them together for a big pack (is not used in smaller cars, there you have a already put together pack.
And off course the costs, nobody could even think of their redundancy time, their cylce life time should be around the same than NiMH´s but nobody not even the firms have tested them so long under Model car situation (where there are way much more Amp draws than in the industry !!)

So there is a big ?

These are the general things, but IF they do power the car, they´re great, drivetime is elongated by 2 factors: 1. more mAh and 2. less weight !!

As for the module 1 pinion try to get some via www.conrad.com, maybe they could sell you one !! (i do not know if they´re already in the US or not, but they´re the cheapest (around 3-5 Euro each)

As for every day use there should be agood 3300 RPM /V reading with 12 cells, the rpm shall not exceed the 60.000 mark, this comes critical for the Bearings !!

Then you might have enough powr for EVERY situation even for a good speed run with those nitros hanging around (as the car will go faster than 40 -50 Mph, but if you wanna drive 30, put less cells in it !!)
Go for a Hacker B50 or maybe the C50 series (smaller shaft, less power transfer possible) or a LMT Motor around the 19xx series you ´ll find everything you need or a kontronik FUN 500-33 (i used the formwer 27 version in my 12 cell 8th, it really has all it needs to be fast enough !! and driving time is around 12 min !! with 3000 mAh sub c cells)

[racinlosi]

Ok...thank you. Also, what kind of speeds was the Ktroniks BL getting you to? Are any of them 550 sived motors? What ESC is best for it if they have one?



also. what B50 motor is a really awesome one on 12 cells for a 1/8th scale buggy? And what ESC is the best for it that's not too much in coast? like around $200 maybe for it?

[Fidelio]

man that's crazy! very cool though.

Craps would you be talking about CJ?

if you are i'd love to see that thing run although i don't make it that far south much. mostly over to the bowl.

if none of that makes sense, disregard. :p

[Mr. Constructor]

@racinlosi:

Yes there are 550 sized Motors too, the FUN 600 Series is in that size, i used the FUN 500-27 wich really gives around 70 -80Km/H and that is only with 2700 RPM / V and 12 cells, normally i would use a 3300 RPM / V Motor, this one will really fly the car at 12 cells !!
(The Fun 600-32 will be the one to watch at, then combine it with the new JAZZ 80-6-18 esc´s it is able to handle up to 18 cells WITH BEC and has a LIPO cut off technology already built in AND it is very small (i posted some pics of it, don´t remember where !!)

As for Hacker you will go ith the B50 7L giving you slightly more RPM (around 3400, but that is not really noticeable when you drive!!)

As for a Hacker esc the Only one that handle it with up to 12 cells is the MASTER CAR COMPETITION !!

The prcies for the Motors are almost the same around 200USD the JAZZ ESC is around 200 too (and the peak amp is around 110 A !!) and the Hacker ESC is around 250-300 USD !!

[Craps]

Ok I am going to try to answer everybody's questions?

1. The Hacker motor in my buggy is a B50 10XL

2. I perfer and recommend the Schulze 18.97KWF ESC over the Hacker MC ESC. I have used both in the buggy and the Hacker was subject to thermalling where the Schulze has yet to thermal. Both ESCs you will have to hook up at UBEC to power the reciever. Mine came from www.koolflightsystems.com

3. Mod 1 gears with 5mm bore came from www.sdp-si.com you can order them online. the hardest metal they have is stainless steel in a 15, 16 or 18 tooth size. I use a 16 tooth on mine. You will need to bore out and retap the set screw to a larger size. You can buy smaller tooth sizes with a 6 mm bore using bore reducers to get back to 5 mm, but these gears are the softer carbon steel ones and I am having some cut down (they are too wide a face for me) to send off to be hardened. You can also get 12 and 14 tooth ones with these.

Now back to the banning issue may be changed, but the big reason was due to the T-Maxx versus Truggy issue he was dealing with at his track caused him alot of grief, so he did not want the same problems with his by far biggest class, the 1/8th scale buggies. This track is Lance Norick's track, he has one of the best off road tracks on the east coast and a great track owner. You will not meet a nicer guy.

Who or where is CJ?

As far as the 8200 mahs Li-Pos are still in testing and will not be used again due to the new higher discharge 10C rated TP7600s 11.1 volt will be used that are in transit to me. I should have them Monday and I hope to race them at Easley, SC next Saturday.

[racinlosi]

@ Mr. Constructor

Where do you find these new KonTroniks stuff? All I see is the 40-6-18 ESC and the 600-17 Motor? I looked on towerhobbies for the price, and that's all I see. Are those two also a great set to have?

Also, what is the UBEC? Sorry, but I just got into electric not too long ago from nitro, needed somthing that I can run without having loads of problems. ^_^

Also, I think I will be getting that setup if I can't find the one you mentioned, how good would that be with some where around 15 cells. I was thinking about the new 3600 cells, do you think that setup can handle that? Or what about 15 3300 cells? And they are all going to be conected to each other.




PS to all...if you want to see my motor mount for the BL, here is a picture of it...

[Fidelio]

i was talking about Rodslingers, south of Atlanta.

[Mr. Constructor]

@ racinlosi:
the esc 40-6-18 is way too low for those cars, choose a 80-6-18, my 55-6-18 was send back this week, the power wasn´t enough, during accl. the max. peak current of 65 A was reached easily, and then the esc shuts down and restarts again, it was like a driving scool car (these really first steps when driving a real car) stop and go all the time (i could pull 1/2 the trigger but the slow end wasn´t really driveable, so there must be a bigger esc !!

for 8th is use 80 A 12 cell versions, there is no need of an extra receiver pack (when using everthing else except Hacker car esc´s AND the warrior ´s in a very bad gearing and Motor selection !!

Try these : Warrior 70 or 9918 BE, Schulze 12.97 , Kontronik 80-6-18, Hacker Master Car (but maybe with a sep. receiver batt) or a schulze u force 75, a electronicmodel 115 Series will be OK too, these are the most used ESC´s in 8th conversions !!

Then a 19xx series or a Hacker B 50 or C50 or a Plettenberg Maxximum (or even a BIG Maxximium) or a HB 25 series or even some LRK motors (really hard to adapt them, but it functions very well) or a Kontronik FUN 500 or 600 series.

The forst 2 are the major ones, you should stick to those !!
depends on your money, avalability, and esc !! (try out a warrior 7018 and a Hacker B50, this is the entry level, better esc ?? (the schulze 1297 should give all you want !!)

[Craps]

The batteries are in and I hope to race test them Saturday at Easley, SC track.

I also talked to Brian at Tanic batteries about a pair of custom made batteries that would give me (are you sitting down) 22.2 volts and 13,500 mahs. These would fill up both sides of the buggy and add quite a bit of weight to it. $522 each for a pair of batteries that would probably put the handling out in left field for the buggy, but would give at least 45 minutes of run time.

It seems track owners and other racers in my area are calling me and actually wanting me to run it at they're track and the racers want to run where it runs.

Wish me luck on the race testing this weekend!

[glassdoctor]

It's good to hear you are getting some support... they should realize that you have an uphill battle to compete with them. The car may be fast, but we know that it's a big challenge to get an electric to run a 30 or 45 minute race especially in the most powerful class in offroad.

Battery and heat issues... good luck!

Hey, how do you like the k/v of the 10XL on 14.8V? I'm curious what your exact final drive ratios were, and the speeds you were getting. Most buggies seem to be about 13/46 stock center diff and f/r diffs are about 3:1? That's what I'm not sure about. I haven't decided on which chassis to get yet, or k/v.

For now, I don't think I'll be doing lipos because I think I need to put the $$ into the car/motor/esc combos and the local mains will be 15 min. at most. I want to... maybe late this year.

So I think I'll stick with a 12 cell 3300 setup for now, and probably a B50 L size motor. The XL is overkill you think? Or do you really like it?

[racinlosi]

@ racinlosi:
the esc 40-6-18 is way too low for those cars, choose a 80-6-18, my 55-6-18 was send back this week, the power wasn´t enough, during accl. the max. peak current of 65 A was reached easily, and then the esc shuts down and restarts again, it was like a driving scool car (these really first steps when driving a real car) stop and go all the time (i could pull 1/2 the trigger but the slow end wasn´t really driveable, so there must be a bigger esc !!

for 8th is use 80 A 12 cell versions, there is no need of an extra receiver pack (when using everthing else except Hacker car esc´s AND the warrior ´s in a very bad gearing and Motor selection !!

Try these : Warrior 70 or 9918 BE, Schulze 12.97 , Kontronik 80-6-18, Hacker Master Car (but maybe with a sep. receiver batt) or a schulze u force 75, a electronicmodel 115 Series will be OK too, these are the most used ESC´s in 8th conversions !!

Then a 19xx series or a Hacker B 50 or C50 or a Plettenberg Maxximum (or even a BIG Maxximium) or a HB 25 series or even some LRK motors (really hard to adapt them, but it functions very well) or a Kontronik FUN 500 or 600 series.

The forst 2 are the major ones, you should stick to those !!
depends on your money, avalability, and esc !! (try out a warrior 7018 and a Hacker B50, this is the entry level, better esc ?? (the schulze 1297 should give all you want !!)


What do you mean by forst 2? Do you mean first 2? A;so, I'm leaning twards the Kongtronics set up, but I can't find the setup your telling me. Do you think you can link me to it please?

[glassdoctor]

http://www.icare-rc.com/

They have the Kontronik stuff.... and lots of others too..

[Fidelio]

I really hope you succeed. I race 1/8 scale gas but I think it's great what you're doing. I'd love to see an electric buggy hangin' with the gas crowd. If you could run 30 mins and stay off your lid you'd have a real advantage not taking any pit stops. Best of luck to you.

If you ever come down to the Atlanta area to race, be sure and PM me as I'd love to see your buggy running, and hopefully keep up with it. :D

[Craps]

Fidelio
Alot of the rod slingers crowd comes up to Easley, SC and race where I am racing it Saturday. Come on up to Easley and run with us. There is always some GA guys there running and it is on the west side of Greeneville, SC, so it is not that far for you to go. They have 2 1/8th scale classes. A Sportsman Class (novice) and a Pro Class that Chris Pace will race it for me in.

Big Hobby Shop on site with a snack bar/grill and lots of racers.

Here is the Easley track web site: www.carolinarc.com

Come on up and race with us!
Tim H.

[Fidelio]

I'm sure I'll make it up there sooner or later.

This weekend however, is the GA Offroad Champs at SCORE in Savannah GA.

Don't think I can make it out of town this weekend so I may just be racin' at Sugarbowl on Sat instead of heading to Savannah.

I'll be sure and let you know when I plan on heading up there though. Sounds like a good time. :)

Darren M.

[Craps]

Well it finally happened! I had my first Li-Po related fire, sort of! Hooked up the new pair of 11.1 volt 7600 mah 10C discharge rated TPs and made 3 laps with it thermalling 2 times and just when I was headed for the pits, smoke rolled out from the body with fire to follow that melted the body.

The Schulze 18.97KWF ESC could not handle the new batteries voltage and increased discharge rate that after some phone calls to Chris Fine and Jason at TP, the new batteries are hotter voltage wise and equal to around 25 nickel cells.

I am glad the ESC was mounted up high and keep the fire away from the Li-Pos that still got the shrink wrap melted a little on top. Anyway I keep an eye to them as a precaution and charged them back up to see if they were hurt. They checked out and should be OK when the new bigger Schulze 40-160 ESC comes in that can handle up to 40 cells and 160 amps continious.

No racing for the buggy this weekend, but it was beyond ungodly and the devil was in it this time with all the heat. In other words for the 3 laps I ran was huge, huge step up in speed. I really don't think there are many RCers that can use that much power or drive it to it's full potential.

I am looking forward to the bigger ESC and to having maybe the fastest 1/8th scale buggy in the world.

Oh well I need to wait again for something else.

[Fidelio]

man, now i REALLY want to see this thing run. :eek:

sad to hear about your bad luck but it sounds like you've found the cause as well as a solution for the problem.

I'm not up on batteries as i'm a nitro breather but i do know that 160amps, 11.1 volts, and 40 cells is a CRAZY amount of juice.

I have a lot of respect for you as you're not only out on a limb, but you're the new budding leaf way out at the tip in terms of battery technology for rc use.

color me impressed.

hope to hear good reports with your new esc. best of luck. :)

[glassdoctor]

Welll, you weren't too far over the voltage ratings but apparently far enough, huh?

18 cells= 21.6 volt
lipos = 22.2 volt


That stinks... but at least now you will have an awesome controller! It should never have thermal problems. :)

I've heard it's really big though.... will you have it in time for the "big" race?

[Chase023]

Hey Craps, how much did you pay for your Schulze 18.97KWF if I may ask??

I hope to go to the lipo direction but I think I will still wait a little longer, but I am excited to see that your testings are goin well.

By the way I was wondering where I would find 5mm bore pinion gears and you said www.sdp-si.com .. Funny thing is I bought Stainless Steel Splined Telescoping driveshafts for my project from there.

I hope to get into lipos later tho due to the weight and length of run times.

Can you give me some part numbers for those pinion gears?

[Mr. Constructor]

Be careful, the 40.160 has NO lipo cut off mode either, i think your esc wasn´t melted due to overvoltage, it was melted due to the very long running time under the max. allowed Voltage AND amp draw, the esc was on its limit, normally a little extra volt doesn´t harm that much but the combination of all parts does the rest, so try to ask Kontronik for their JAzz FAI series of esc´s they might handle the same amp but DO HAVE a lipo cut off safety circuit !!
Check this out, maybe this might be a better solution, price will be almost the same (around 400-450 USD)
( the Jazz FAI 7/18 goes up to 18 cells (24 v) and 200 A WITH bec use up to 1,5 A number: 4961 or 8-24 cells and 120A cont. curr. : 4971, but have them asked IF these esc´s might have a prop. brake (a Car programm)

Good Luck, sounds as if this car really is a very good setup !!
(give us some pics of the melted down "car" (if you have those, might be interesting to see your setup with the elctrics and anything else !!)

[Craps]

OK guys, the voltage is peaked on the batteries at 12.60 volts each for a total of 25.2 volts and Mr. C. I only made 3 laps, which is not even 2 minutes.

Well a new $352 ESC is now on sale (fire sale) if anybody is interested in what is left of it and there is no warranty.

Chris Fine said he had been dyno testing the new TP 10C discharge Li-Pos that do not have a quick voltage drop like the nickel batteries do. He said they are so strong at first, it maybe more voltage than the equal would be in nickel batteries on the ESC and the increased discharge rate along with the increased voltage fried the ESC.

I now have an 1/8th scale BBQ grill at the track. Come on down to Craps Grill. The special today is fried ESC, Li-Po style!

Just want to save somebody else some time and alot of money if they try to build one too. The B50 10XL motor with that much voltage is just way too much, but that is a good thing!!!!!

Chase023
Just check the options on the online buying site with metric 1st, then module 1 pitch, then 5 mm bore and then stainless steel. Do it in this order will limit it down to about 3 gears. You can change the bore size to 6 mm and set the metal to all will give you a few more options if you want to machine down the carbon steel ones and have them hardened like I am getting ready to do. With the 6 mm bore you will need bore reducers that work real good.

Mr. C.
I'll need to get Hingepin to take and post somemore pictures of it when I get the new ESC in. I mount it up high above the center diff and motor where it can get some air through a hole in the windshield of the buggy.

[glassdoctor]

Craps, that motor mount position is interesting. I never considered putting it there because of the high CG, but it would be good for cooling. And it would let you place the batts close on each side of the diff which is good.

I was planning to put the motor and other electrics on one side... with the motor flat on the chassis for low CG and maybe some heatsink from the alum. chassis. Then the batts would all have to go on the other side. Have you tried that layout?

I'm still wondering what you think of the XL in general... is it really overkill? I'm thinking of getting an L... assuming that it will be fast enough yet maybe be easier on the esc and more efficient. Any suggestions?

[Craps]

Did you see the size of the Schulze 40.160WK ESC, it is 71 mm wide by 120 mm long by 20 mm thick with no heat sinks. This thing is huge and there is only one place to mount it and that is over the top of the diff and the motor where it can also get some air to cool it if it needs it.

Looking forward to getting it in and blowing the tires off of the buggy. I have never ever seen anything that fast on an off road track.

[racinlosi]

Ok, I'm really interesting in the Nemises Motors now, good and cheap. :D But I wanted to know what ESC would be good for some good speeds on the buggy, but I really don't think the $400 ESC is the only way to go on that. And I have no clue how to tell the Amerage rate, and all the other stuff I need to know on this ESC, so if you can help me out how to find all this stuff and to know what will make if go fast, please, tell me! I need this help fast because I really want to make up my mind! And I want to do so much reserch on this that it's not even funny! I don't want to make a miskate, but the Nemises Motors are really catching my eye in the price, and power I heard that they can give! So, please. help me!

[Mr. Constructor]

A very good entry level and cheap esc will be the Lehner (LMT) Warrior 7018 BEC (6-12 cells with bec) if the motor really draws too much amp, the bec has to be cut off (too unsafe) and a receiver pack has to be used) and the cogging might be feelable during the start up, but otherwise it IS the cheapest one, and i use it many times in my various cars (see also my Heatsink building how to in this forum, it IS a warrior for a huge 5th !!)

Go with it, you´ll not be dissapointed !!

(and a 9918 (99A cont, the other has 70) BEC is even much more powerful)

[racinlosi]

Well...where can I find both of them at? I know of three places that have BL's and non of them have it, or atleast I can't find it...


Also, is the fut-18.97F from schulze a good ESC to have? And will both of these be able to use the new 3600 batteries? And which one will be better to use for 12 of them in a single pack?

[racinlosi]

So...is anyone still reading this, or did I kill the thread? And can someone answer my question please? :(

[Craps]

Wow!!!!

This Schulze 40.160 ESC is huge and has 4 battery wires coming out to be soldered together to make one into the deans plugs along with 3 pairs of motor plugs to make a total of 6 plugs that need to be "Y"ed into my 3 motor wires to the Hacker B50 10XL. It will fit up high in the body where I had the other ESC, but I need to add some alum. plate bolted to my mount bracket to give additional support and area for velcro.

Got to go to work now and break out the soldering iron for some serious soldering.

[Craps]

Here is the pictures of the latest mods to the buggy with the Schulze 40.160 ESC and two TP7600-3S4P Li-Pos.

[Craps]

Another picture

[Craps]

Picture #3

[Craps]

The batteries are not just strapped in with 2 velcro straps each, the entire bottom of the battery has velcro the full length stuck to the chassis pan. The ESC is mounted on poster board base with velcro that is mounted on an angle bolted to the center diff tower. Lots of velcro used, but is needed to keep everything intact while the buggy is getting abused.

Notice the battery and motor wires from the ESC are doubled up. Also the ventilation holes made on the body to get air in the front to exhaust out the rear.

[racinlosi]

wow, that ESC is INSANLY HUGE! Looks very nice Craps, very nice. Looks liek that thing is going to kick the Nitro buggies' ass!

[BOOCAKE4U]

Less talk, more movies :D

[Fidelio]

and it must have audio. ;)

[Craps]

Guys it took me 5 months to get these poor quality still pictures and now you want a movie???? We could be talking about a year for that request. I had to struggle to get the still pictures made if it was not for a major RC car magazine wanting preliminary pictures to do an article on my buggy, they maybe not done yet!

Now if any of guys that live near the Carolinas want to come to one of the race tracks I race it at, I would love for you to post a movie of it.......with audio! Just let me know and I'll be glad to let you know where we are racing it.

Hingepin maybe able to make movies.

[Fidelio]

muahaha, that thing is just so cool i want to see it running.
i mean no harm, excited is all.

[Craps]

Yesterday's day at the track I spent all day chasing an on throttle reciever/ESC/motor clitch that keep my driver from doing with it what he did in 2 other classes that day.....WIN!!!! I resoldered wires, changed timing/frequency settings on the ESC, cleaned the reciever out, changed radios/crystals and could never find anything. I do need to try a reciever battery pack versus using the UBEC that maybe my problem hooked up to more voltage or maybe I have a reciever going bad that I will try another reciever and if those 2 things don't fix it, I either have a motor or ESC problem. I also tore up 2 brand new stainless steel pinion gears and I will have to wait on the hardened steel ones to come back from the machine shop.

If you guys want to read what other racer's have said about it, go to the "Trinity Tech Talk" web site http://techtalk.teamtrinity.com/tt/index.php? in there "Where to Race" forum under the "The Proving Grounds" thread.

This thing is unreal if I can get the bugs out of it.

[Craps]

I just noticed something, this thread has over 5400 views that I think is alot for a thread that is not even 2 months old.

Listen up 1/8th scale manufacturers, there is alot of interest in this and you need to be listening because I think the demand for an electric 1/8th buggy is out there. I just don't know if they want to pay the higher price for it.

[Craps]

5652 views the next day, thats over 240 views and not one post. I still say there is alot of interest for this!

[Rotary Rocket]

Great job Craps. Please keep us posted as to the performance of the new LiPos.

I will need 4 X 2S4P for my 1/5 electric project, and want to make sure they are the real deal before I spend the $800 (including another Astro Flight 109 charger). :)

[J mAn]

Im thinking of making one of these... what roller should I get? Also what motor/esc should I use... My budget is $600 ish... what setup should I use and where do I find a conversion? I have a warrior 7018/lehner basic 5300... I dont think its powerful enough but I just wanted to check.

[Craps]

Great job Craps. Please keep us posted as to the performance of the new LiPos.

I will need 4 X 2S4P for my 1/5 electric project, and want to make sure they are the real deal before I spend the $800 (including another Astro Flight 109 charger). :)

Just be careful with that many batteries in series. I bought a digital volt meter as suggested by Thunder Power and I make sure my 2 batteries are close to the .01 volt difference. I have 2 what I thought were identical Astro Flight 109 chargers that I thought was peaking my batteries at 12.60 volts, but when I checked them with the volt meter one was 12.67 and the other was 12.55 volts. So I hooked up the weaker one for about a minute or two on the same charger the stronger battery came off of to get as close to the 12.67 volts the stronger one is. Now keeping up with 4 batteries is going to be harder.

Also with the new 10C TPs, break them in as instructed and do not store fully charged until you break them in to balance the cells. This is very important information that has been released after talking to Jason at TP and Chris Fine at Fine Design RC.

Good Luck on the 1/5th scale project.

[Craps]

Im thinking of making one of these... what roller should I get? Also what motor/esc should I use... My budget is $600 ish... what setup should I use and where do I find a conversion? I have a warrior 7018/lehner basic 5300... I dont think its powerful enough but I just wanted to check.

I don't think $600 is going to get you far. Maybe if you can double or triple that number I can help you. The lehner 5300 is way too small a motor.

Used roller 1/8th scale buggy...... $200
Schulze 40.160 ESC...................$585
Hacker B50 12XL motor...............$229
High torque steering servo...........$129
2 TP7600-3S4P Li-Pos.................$400
UBEC to power reciever...............$ 40
Motor mount custom machined......$ 60
2 Astro Flight 109 lithium chargers.$250
Misc. (velcro, velcro straps, plugs).$ 30
Digital volt meter.........................$ 22

You still need your radio and reciever.

$1945 in a prototype that could be outlawed real easy and that does not include spare parts or wheels and tires.

But you would have one of the fastest 1/8th scales in the world that out jump the fastest gas buggies and can run at speeds over 70 mph. You have to see it to believe it!

Good Luck!!!!

[J mAn]

ok...

first off im not using li polys

roller: 200 ok
Motor/esc: $400 used

Misc other stuff: $200

Now you didnt help me with what car, and wehere to get conversion stuff...

[Craps]

Now you didnt help me with what car, and wehere to get conversion stuff...

It don't matter what car, they all copied each other with the main design. Sorry the only conversion kit being made now is for the Mugen by Fine Design that came on mine oringinally that I have since changed and made my own to have a stronger motor mount. You will more than likely need to fabricate you're own. Some guys are taking the 2 motor E-Maxx mount and chopping off the bottom of it. You could possibly use 2 of those Lehner 5300's if you can match up the ESC to run 2 motors. That is an area I know nothing about when it comes to matching up 2 motors to an ESC. I don't think Schulze makes an ESC that is designed for 2 motors.

Also using nickel batteries is going to make that buggy real heavy. Mine is already a good pound heavier than a gas one with my Li-Pos and I would hate to think the voltage equalivalent in nickel would be alot heavier and still not match the mahs capacity of the Li-Pos.

Good Luck!

[J mAn]

ok thanks... i dont see this conversion on the fine design websight...

I can get a good deal on a new mugen mbx4 or a sport mp 7.5 which is used. whatever i get, I plan on taking off the plastic sides of the chassis and bolting on two battery plates that I will cut and slot out of aluminum. The emaxx motot plate sounds like a good idea, what buggies will this work on?

[Craps]

ok thanks... i dont see this conversion on the fine design websight...

I can get a good deal on a new mugen mbx4 or a sport mp 7.5 which is used. whatever i get, I plan on taking off the plastic sides of the chassis and bolting on two battery plates that I will cut and slot out of aluminum. The emaxx motot plate sounds like a good idea, what buggies will this work on?

All of them have center diff towers that if you remove the brakes you can bolt it to where the brakes were. You may have to a little dremel work slotting it around the diff outdrive.

DualBL did this with his Hyper 7 that can be found here: www.darkside-racing.com

Good Luck!

[Craps]

5877 views increase over 200 a day and at this rate it will pass my popular Lithium Poly Battery Thread in the Electric Forum that was started last November.

Wow!

The 1/8th scale electric buggy has alot of interest for view onlys and not many posts.

This is proof to RC magazines and manufacturers to provide information or a product based on this project to have the fastest 20 or 30 minute 1/8th scale off road buggy in the world.

I hope to hit the track this weekend for more testing to find my on throttle clitching problem and I don't have my hardened steel gears in yet to try those, so I quess I will feed it the stainless steel gears till they are gone.

I am also thinking about re-manufacturering the rear center diff tower to incorporate the motor mount and lower half of the tower into one piece of aluminum and making the center diff more accessable and make the motor mount even stronger by tieing it all together and fastening it to the chassis floor with more fasteners. This will help my gear problem and moving the motor end closer to the main gear.

[DualBL]

I ran 2 5300's with 2 7018 controllers in my hyper before.
I had a total of 24 cells (12 to each setup, which i will NOT recomend due to over-reving the motors).
like craps said, it was HEAVY. I put black springs on it that came with my Hyper, and with the 24 cells, it was about 1/4" off the ground when I set it down.
it had power tho..
I only ran it for about a min, cause one of the 5300's unscrewed it's self. for that minute that it ran, it was the most powerful rc i've seen in person. I've never seen a 1/8 buggy that could wheelie at will. top speed wasn't that great, but it had no lack of torque. I actually found out that it broke one of the front CVD's...

but just try to shoot for under 20 cells, and you'll be alright.
as for DSR's conversion.. My ex-partner Chris claims he has 7 prototype chassis that he had CNC'd out of graphite. 0 of the 7 have made it to my doorstep so I could continue to work on this project. so earlier today, I picked up some styro-fome* so I can just start laying everything out, to get the measurements, so it'll be ready for CNC. wish me luck.

-Nick

[Craps]

DualBL
Why are you wanting to reinvent the wheel with this chassis you are trying to build?

The 1/8th scale gas guys are always updating to the latest gas buggy kit out and selling they're old and what they think is out of date equipment for very cheap. A roller chassis with the rear center diff tower re-manufactured incorporating a one piece motor mount in one solid piece of aluminum that would still have a split piece to access the diff. This one piece could have 4 crews securing it to the chassis floor and would allow one 550 sized can motor to mounted to it or you could even extend the aluminum mount to the other side allowing for maybe a pair of 540 sized can motors on each side of the diff gear. I perfer the one controller to one big motor idea.

The 40.160 Schulze is overkill, but it is hard to find the 25 or 32 cell ESCs. I don't think my B50 12XL motor is overkill due to the huge amount of torque required to move the heavy buggy. Maybe a C50 12XL would be better since it is even bigger with cooling fins, but then it will be harder to fit in the buggy.

I believe Li-Pos is the only way to go due to less weight and more power if you really want to put fire in the wire.

[DualBL]

i'm not trying to reinvent the wheel.. i'm just trying to make a product that works.
I don't like using the stock chassis, cause then there's unused holes (flywheel).
I also don't really like how it worked with the batteries attached to the plastic side guards. I could just make new side guards, but I think a 4 piece (1 top, 1 bottom, 2 side) piece design will work best for layout and strength. and I'm gonna go for a graphite composite to keep costs down, and make it as light as possible. (which i know you'll like ;) ).
and I am really thinking about a single motor setup myself, but if I can make this conversion affordable, then I'm thinking alot of people would want to put an EVX and Titans in it, and run it on 12-14 cells, so that's why I'm going to make it dual motor compatible, but not dual motor standard, if you want to run single.
got work to do, so off I go.

-Nick

[J mAn]

hey, how many of these will you make and for what car? Im thinking fo going with a mugen mbx4 and doing the maxx motor plate thingy. I will then replace the plastic sidewalls with aluminum battery plates. I know a guy who works at a cnc shop so I may just make a new chassis and have him cut it. the chassis would be the smae as the stock chassis in the front and rear, but it would be wider and have 8-10 slots on either side for batts. no unused holes and you could use the gorillamaxx straps. not sure how many slots yet but ill see.

[DualBL]

well, Fine has mugen, but I hear there's lots of room for improvement.
Me and ColdFusionRacing have an agreement where he'll be doing the conversion for MBX, and Axis (not sure if he still plans on axis), but I'll be helping out with those.
for starters, I'm working on the Hyper7, cause that's the only buggy I own, and it's easiest to get measurements for me.
but after that, I'll prolly just go with whatever there's demand for. once I get everything layed out, it won't be that hard to change a few dimm.s, and have another buggy conversion ready to be made.
-Nick

[J mAn]

do you have alink to the mugen conversion? is it just for teh mbx5 or will it work on an mbx4?

[racinlosi]

$200 for a roller! I don't think so, I got mine for $82...

J mAn-The E-Maxx motor mount for the buggy isn't very hard to make either. I just used a dremel and that worked perfectally to cut it!

Craps-No offince, I like yur setup, but the price oyu gave was for your buggy. he may have a different setup so the price will be lower... ;)


Well, what kind of ESC would go good with a B50S 8turn motor on 12 cells? And sorry the 40.160 is too much for me right now(and for a while). :p

[Craps]

$200 for a roller! I don't think so, I got mine for $82...

J mAn-The E-Maxx motor mount for the buggy isn't very hard to make either. I just used a dremel and that worked perfectally to cut it!

Craps-No offince, I like yur setup, but the price oyu gave was for your buggy. he may have a different setup so the price will be lower... ;)


Well, what kind of ESC would go good with a B50S 8turn motor on 12 cells? And sorry the 40.160 is too much for me right now(and for a while). :p

Racinlosi
Since you are so good at finding an $82 buggy, finding an $82 ESC should not be a problem for such a smart person like you to match up with the nickel batteries and little motor! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Roller chassis on E-Bay back in the winter went from $100 to $250 and some with servos and radio/recievers. I think everybody got my budget $$$s.

Good Luck!

[DualBL]

more pics at the www.darkside-racing.com gallery

also, Tim, I lost your email addy, and wanna talk to you bout some stuff.
email me at dualbl@sbcglobal.net
thnx
-Nick

[Craps]

more pics at the www.darkside-racing.com gallery

also, Tim, I lost your email addy, and wanna talk to you bout some stuff.
email me at dualbl@sbcglobal.net
thnx
-Nick

Nick
I know you want to e-mail questions and I have sent you my e-mail address by e-mail, but would it be better to ask the questions here to get more opinions on things than just my opinion?

There is alot of more experienced RC'ers and more general RC knowledge here than what I have to offer.

Tim

[J mAn]

nice chassis dualbl! what are the dimensions of it and will it fit under the stock body? I'm going to make an alum one, and that look s like a good idea.

[NIC]

racinglosi:

Do not use a B50-8S on 12 cells, the power will be totally wrong and you may burn up your motor. You are talking about 65 000 rpm with that setup. Try to stay in the 35 000-45 000 rpm range. That motor will not have much torque and when using offroad tires it will bog down and build up intence heat.
I have a B50 11S on 12 cells and that is good when I run with 13/46 gearing and small tarmac-tires (96mm) on it, but with standard offroad tires the speed is way too much for any track and the motor work harder with thoose tires getting abit to hot for my likening.

To Craps (threadstarter) and everyone:
I have done a new setup to my Kanai 2. I use a B50 11L, not the S-version as before, and 15 cells to make it better suited for offroad. I figured out a new layout wich ables me to mount 15 cells flat and a 80mm long motor on the standard main chassie.
My goal was to actually make the Kanai slower to suit my track better, because I already drove with the 13T with the 11S and coulden´t go any lower.
The first test yesterday evening was a complete succsess, the car was just abit slower, had more torque, longer runtime, esc (18.149) was really cool, batteries were offcoarse cool, and an overall improvement from the 11S.
I also have a 7XL motor and I´m gonna compare that motor to the 11L.
I can´t belive the thickness of those wires coming out of the 7XL :eek: ! Compared to the 11L they are twise as thick !

NIC

[Signats]

racinglosi:


I have a B50 11S on 12 cells and that is good when I run with 13/46 gearing and small tarmac-tires (96mm) on it, but with standard offroad tires the speed is way too much for any track and the motor work harder with thoose tires getting abit to hot for my likening.


My goal was to actually make the Kanai slower to suit my track better, because I already drove with the 13T with the 11S and coulden´t go any lower.


NIC


NIC,

That sounds really good, the pictures of your buggy on the darkside site look as if you have the clutch assembly from a gas motor mounted on the output shaft of the electric motor.

Are you using the whole gas motor clutch assembly, or just the clutch bell as a pinion, and how do you attach the clutch parts to the output shaft of an electric motor?

From my perspective having a clutch of some kind is key for running offroad with all the jumps and whoops, flipping, banging and crashing, and before commiting to making my own 1/8th electric conversion buggy I need to have a solid plan to incorporate a means to dissapate the spike loads that the drive line will be subjected to.


Thanks,

Signats

[NIC]

Signats,

It´s correct that I use a regular clutchbell on thoose pics, but it is clamped on backwards into an adaptor. It works great but the rotating mass is a little bit high. The hole assembly weighs around 35 grams, and that is a big mass directly on the motorshaft. The motor ran abit cooler when I had a "regular" piniongear made, just like a standard 48 pitch pinion, that weighs 15 grams.
Other then that I had 20 runs with that construction without any problems and it worked great.
So I don´t use a nitro type clutch, just "direct-drive" to the centerdiff. You don´t need any type of "slipper" assembly as you thought just to save the motor from the impacts from landing, it works without it. The centerdiff take away most of the impacts. I can however see that landing from a high jump on a high grip surface like asfalt or so with full throttle would be painful for the motor but you never do that anyways.
It will hold.

NIC

[DualBL]

NIC, any updated pics of your updated buggy?
I'm working on some more CAD's of my hyper, and i'm actually having fun! maybe it's because I have a foam model of it next to me that I can tinker with when I get stuck looking at the computer monitors :)

also, RacinLosi's buying one of my B50 8s's.
he asked about cell count, and I told him from 8-12. someone told me once that 8 cells was the most that it could take, not because of RPM, but because of the watts.
when I ran mine in my rustler on 12 cells (or even 16), it never "bogged down" just too much power to keep it on it's wheels. with 8 cells, it was still more powerfull than any brushed motor that I've run, and more powerfull than my emaxx was. reason I said up to 12 cells, is cause a lot of people were running 12 in their emaxx, without problems.
i did tell him, that 12 isn't recomended by Hacker, so he'd be on his own, but I never had any problems with 12.
-Nick

[Craps]

To Clutch or not to clutch? That is the question!

I hope the only reason my buggy is eating pinion gears that are made of stainless steel (strongest I could find) against the hardened steel main gear is the fact that stainless steel is softer and when I get my custom cut and hardened steel pinion gears in will slove my problem.

That buggy takes alot of shock through the gear/drivetrain and most RC car/trucks/buggys have some kind of clutch between the motor and final drive. That is for a reason that I hope is not preventing tearing up gears.

Tomorrow I go to the track for a day of nothing but testing on finding my on throttle clitch, pinion gears if they come in and finally some actual battery runtimes that I have neglected to do.

I know I am supposed to test first and then race, but it was just too tempting and ungodly fast!

[Craps]

Dualbl
Why don't you re-manufacturer both center diff towers that raise the diff and the gear higher than the chassis floor. Make the rear tower as one big long piece to incorporate both motor mounts and notch it out for the diff cap to access the center diff real easy. I am going to do this next to mine except I will just have one motor mount. You can fasten the entire one piece of motor mount rear diff tower to the chassis with about 6 screws making everthing even stronger. This will be the best design you could ever make and keep those motor mounts from extending to far out because you need the space for batteries.

Don't forget you're chassis braces because this thing will flex, especially since you are planning on using those heavy nickel (eek) batteries.

Make next project will be to set the land speed record for 1/8th scale RCs or RC cars in general with my buggy????? :D

Or I may sponsor the 1st annual Unlimited or Open 1/8th Scale World Championship race that would be a true World Champion with the fastest Off-Road RC Vehicle on the Planet in a 20 minute main. This will not be a restricted 1/8th scale class race. Open to any powerplant/fuel that will fit in an 1/8th scale buggy.(Is this too cool or what)

Good luck!

[DualBL]

Tim, you think I should make the motor mount part of the diff mount?
it's obviously been too long since we've talked..
I'll put my latest CAD up in my gallery later tonight, so you can see where I'm at ;)

and I found a sponser for Li-Po's for the RCCA speed runs, so I will most likely run the same batts in my hyper hehe.
Later
-Nick

[Craps]

Nick
You need to raise the center gear up above the chassis since you are going to do away with that hole for it which I is a good idea. You could shim the towers up, but remake both diff towers raising the center diff about 1/8 to 1/4" higher. Also make the rear one incorporating both motor mounts with one piece of aluminum except the cap the holds down the center diff so you can access the diff which you will want to do. You can also center up the entire drive train or off set a little allowing for the chassis braces. You can put about 6 to 8 screws holding down the rear tower motor mount piece.

It's about time you seen the light and get some good batteries than that out of date stuff.

Good Luck!

[DualBL]

haha.
well, here's where I'm at on the CAD... I'm working on the top deck, and finishing the braces to connect to the front and rear diff assemblies.
still trying to be "creative" ^_^
-Nick

[racinlosi]

at Craps-

But there is no way I can find an ESC for that price...I just daid the rolling chassis. Oh, and no radio gear also. :p

Aat all-

I saw that it can't go with that many, but I have also heard about some people using 12-14 cells on the motor, and working good. And also, 65,000RPM is fine with me, more than a nitro motor! ^_^

[NIC]

racinlosi:

I´m trying to help you here, you should listen because otherwise you may end up with a broken esc. Your esc, if you´re not using the 40.160 WILL shut down, no question. That motor will not rev 65 000 under the load a 1/8 buggy puts it through, more like 40 000 and will build up INTENCE heat from that. And if you are unlucky it will be destroyed. And besides, if the motor ever should come close to 65 000 rpms, on wich off-road track are you gonna use that speed ?
Ok for a speedrun down the street it can be used for, but by NOOOO means it´s the right motor for that. If you wanna go FAST you shouldn´t even use a 1/8 buggy anyway.

DualBL:

Offcoarse your Rustler never bogged down, look at the total rotating mass of a Rustler and compare it to a 1/8 buggy. 3 diffs = 300 grams, 4 tires = 400 g plus 6 driveshafts, prob. 800 grams of rotating mass ! Your Rustler tires should weigh...I guess here.....about 150 grams each plus the drivetrain 60-80 grams at the most. So probably under 400 for the R. And a 1/8 buggy has that heavy centerdiff after only a 3.5:1 reduction wich puts the motor under a heavy load.
Ok, sorry if I got abit excited here ;).
No pics of my Kanai yet, I haven´t done the wirering job done yet ;). But I think I can manage a movie or two for you :) ! So far I have just tested it with 15 cells and the 11L and it worked out tremendously (hard word) well with no heat problems what so ever and a big power-increase from my 11S with off-road tires. On asfalt it will wheelie with a looked center diff ! And the power in the rough is REALLY good. Going through grass without loosing any revs at all ! A strong setup I must say.

I will send you some clips in a few days.

NIC

[NIC]

DualBL:

Ok, I went out and shot a bunch of movieclips. Some offroading, wheelies, jumps and so on outside my place. The car performed flawlessly as you can tell from the movies. It´s a total of 16 short clips of approx. 15 seconds lenght. I cut them that lenght so they will be able to send via mail.
It´s with the B50 11L and 15 puched and matched GP:s.
Can I send them to your mail ? Then you can maybe put them all together in a long clip ?

NIC

[DualBL]

yeah, I can do that :)
email em to dualbl@sbcglobal.net
-Nick

[DualBL]

NIC
ok, sorry about that, I hit my 10mb limit rather fast lol.
I cleared it out, so just start sending more.
you can also use:
electric8ths@sbcglobal.net
tc3punck@sbcglobal.net
brushless@sbcglobal.net

I'll check later today to clean em out again, so just let me know when all of em are sent
-Nick

[Craps]

Over 6700 views of this thread has me real close to marketing a conversion for 1/8th scales with the gears.

Read and respond to my other thread if you are interested in one!

[DualBL]

just a pic of my progress.
more in my gallery.
-Nick

[Craps]

Nick
You are not going to get my attention until you lose the out of date nickel batteries. You spending alot of time, effort and money on some good things to be powered by out of date technology.

Come on Nick!

Get some Li-Pos or please design it with those in mind. You are killing me to look at those nice cad drawings showing those boat anchors for batteries.

You'll thank me when you see how great they are!

I am looking at going with a bigger motor than the Hacker B50 12XL, maybe Lehner 2200 series motor of somekind. I broke my second Hacker center rotor magnet over the weekend that Chris Fine says he has never seen happen to a Hacker XL motor. Two 11.1 volt Li-Pos in series is alot of fire in the wire through that Schulze 40.160 ESC.

Good Luck!

[DualBL]

ahahah!
i already told you, I am going li-po.
wanna see what it'd look like with Li-Po's, remove the nicd's, and flip the side braces over.
it'll work with both lipo's and nicd's.
reason I'm drawing it up with NICD's on there, is that most people that would be buying this conversion wouldn't want lipos. but that doesn't mean it's not lipo compatable.
-Nick

[racinlosi]

NIC-

Ok, I will be going on an off-road track, bashing off-road(desert style, like all of the NorthStar V8's that go hella fast out there), and on-road speed runs. But I am going to use this motor asa test now and use the Nemisis motors later with a dual setup and use the Blue Can motors(yes, they have them! CHECK IT OUT!)! Project Blue Lighting has some blue BL motor cans now! :D Also, how do you find the amps being sent to the motor? And how do you find the # of amps going to your motor/esc? Because if it goes up with the cells count, then wouldn the more cells make have more amp which in turns makes more torque for the motor to put out to make that buggy go? Please help me there...And I only have MSN email ( nockout08@msn.com ) and I would liek to see your vids, can you make a vid all put together and put it up on www.r-c-p-i-c-s.net(take away the -'s) please? I would like to see it/them...


Craps-

What kind of Li-Pos would you recomend that aren't "breaking the bank" and are the "Best bang for he buck?" And what charger(s) would you recomend? And what info should you give me about them?

[NIC]

racinlosi,

So far 10 movies have been sent to DualBL. You could ask him to post the ones he got now or wait until tonight when I have sent all 16 of them. They show some driving around my place. Some offroading, jumping, wheelies (!), great acceleration, superb handling and more.....with the Hacker B50-11L and 15 cells.

I have also tested the 7XL now, and the torque went up pretty much. No surprice really. And the rpm is also higher with that motor 2254/V compared to 2195/V so the topspeed was greatly improved also.
The buggy is REALLY fast with that setup, a nitro will never in a million years come close to it !!!!

Stay tuned !

NIC

[Mr. Constructor]

I have seen the new Prototype of a High current Li Cell (NOT Ion OR Polymer, it is organically based)
The NEC press says that it might be recharged in about 30 Sec !!! (i have checked their data sheet and it could become true !!)
The cell is a little lower voltage than liion or polys (around 3,55 V) but the same energy in it AND with thze ability to get several amps out of it, after reading the tech datas, a 6 cell sub c pack size will be around 6000 mAh and delivering around 60-80 A !! At 7,1 V !! (charged little higher around 8 V !!)

You can look some english details here: http://www.labs.nec.co.jp/Eng/Topics/data/r011108/

Hopefully a ready to test prototype with bigger Ah is out now, the proto has only 100 mAh, but the cycle life is over 1000 Cycles with loosing only 8% of the energy (these Tech datas are from NEC itself, the data curves seemed to be very excellent !!)

THAT would really be the next HUGE step in the line of getting electric in the front !!

[Craps]

Mr C
Have you had any experience with bigger motors than the Hacker B50 XL series?

I was wondering if you had a suggestion for a bigger more duarable motor for my buggy that may not break the center rotor with the power from two 11.1 volt Li-Pos in series through the Schulze 40.160 ESC. I need to stay with the 5 mm shaft and was thinking something in the range of the Lehner 2280 12 turn with a can size of 8 mms bigger and 16 mms longer. It appears to about twice the weight also at 800 grams?

Thanks in advance!
Tim

[DualBL]

Tim, have you looked at the Plettenburg BigMAXXimum motor?
it even has a built in fan :)

Mr. Constructor, do you have any idea what's going on with Hacker's new controllers? I remember you had an early one and posted pics of it a while back. I'm wondering if they're available in Europe yet, and if not, if you know what's going on with them.
by the way, if you don't mind me asking, how did you manage to get one of the prototypes?
-Nick

[Craps]

Tim, have you looked at the Plettenburg BigMAXXimum motor?
it even has a built in fan :)

You got a link to where I can find something in English?

I checked on Plettenberg's site in Germany and I did not see the motor listed and I found the Canadian's site Icare gliders that had it listed but no motor dimensions or rpm/volt type specs?

Thanks
Tim

[DualBL]

http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/HP220_maxx/HP220_maxx.htm
that's about all i can get =\
I think Mr. Constructor, or NIC, or someone else will have to help ya out.
-Nick

[Craps]

Nick
Looks like it would be equal to a C50 12L Hacker with a fan added on the back of it. It is less motor than what I have now even though it is bigger because it has fins made on it like the C50 series Hackers have.

I am think about the 2250 or 2280 12 turn Lehner motor with the can as big as the Plettenberger big Maxxxium and the Hacker C50 can with the fins.

Thanks for the link!
Tim

[Mr. Constructor]

@ Craps:

Yes off course, the LMT 2240 Motor or a HB 30-15 Motor will provide plenty of power, even a Torcman 350/28 Or a Torcman 350/20 Ti Pro will produce MUCH more power to run even Cars like my around 8kg heavy 5th or 6th ones !!

But the neg. point will be the weight, these Machines are around 350-480 gr each, producing up to 2 Kw !! (when given the right batterys)
tell me more exactly on wich construction or idea you´re planning, i will tell you wich concept works best !!
(even IF you plan a real scale Quad to be modified in BL it isn´t a Problem, i know some motors that might even do this (they go up till 5 kw))

The Plett (how we call them here in germany) are very good ones, they deliver MORE power than a similar sized Hacker, due to their 4 pole design giving them 2x the torque !!, but there are also bigger ones even for 5th or above, but they ALL (from every Manufacturer) will be quite heavy, so the cells have to go up (even the lipos should be around 4-5 cells) and then the electronics will be too heavy, as the Lipos shouldthen be the 8000´s minimum, maybe the 27Ah ones i told here some days ago, THEY deliver 400A for 30 sec. giving a 120A for the full load !!!! (but each cell is 650 gramms and will be around 200-250 USD EACH !!!!

The Pletti BIG Maxximum is so far the most powerful motor for a Maxx or similar trucks, everything else should only be used in 5th or similar, the power will really even destroy a totally tuned Truck with ease !!!

(did you see the 6th buggy in vid ??, the power is so much, the wheels spins with ease, if my fingers are way too fast at the trigger!!)

As for the tech datas:

Bigmaxximum:

watch this link there are a few datas, watch the weight !!

http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/HP220_maxx/Masse.htm

If anything else is missing, tell me what i will try to find it out !!

As for the Hacker esc´s, my old Master comp. was broken during the winter, WITHOUT beeing used, so send it back, they told me today that i will recieve the new Comp. one, but after a few discussions we came to the stop that i will wait for even a newer one: the 12 cell master comp. in the same status i told ya with the prototype.
The other ones they would have send me are the same than my prototype, except for the cell count, it ONLY goes up to 8 cells (my Proto was 10 cells)

So the new ones should be out !!!
(with MUCH better programmes much lighter more compact, but i do not know if they´ve been shipped to the US so far, i think they will be sending them to German resellers first, so you have to wait a few weeks, but then you´ll have a great esc !!!

(i´m really looking forward on the new very high power version i should get as a replacement for my older Master Comp. !!)

[J mAn]

howmuch would a used nimh setup cost?

[Mr. Constructor]

Don´t speak in Egypt to us, i think you mean a total used (from ebay)setup to power a 8thz buggy ??

the setup will be around 100-150 for a Motor, the same for a esc, batterys are hard to calculate, depends on the offers, and several smaller items, in general, if you do plan on using a BL in a 8th, without the car, a system is around 300-350, without batterys, then take a good car and the battery system you plan on using (Acid Lead batterys (from a real car, but smaller), NiCD, NiMH, LiION, Li Poly, Li Tadiran, Organic (not yet available), Fuel cell.
(from low cost to very high cost (a fuel cell 10th car is already available, if you do plan a 9000 (!!) USD on it, it could become true, no problem either !!

[J mAn]

hey do you know where to get an ESC, i need one for my emaxx right now. my comp just died so i need a new esc maybe a schulze 18.97 with capo mod.

yopnut23
yopnut23@aol.co,

[Mr. Constructor]

Try the rc yellow pages, there are several flight oriented shops that might carry this esc either (the software is for all types of models, so it´s totaly equal where you by it !!)

The 18.97 does NOT have any BEC, if you wanna use it WITH bec, try the 12.97, depends on your needs !!
try out www.stormerhobbies.com, they´ve had several items in the BL sector, maybe yours too ??

Good Luck !!

[J mAn]

how is the GM brushless ESC and will it wortk well in an emaxx?
https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?pn=GMM2888


i probably want something a little bigger

[Craps]

Mr C
As you may have read here I am using a 1/8th scale Mugen MBXR-4 4wd buggy that was gas powered and converted to electric using a Schulze 40.160 ESC with a Hacker B50 12XL motor and powered by the latest generation of Thunder Power 10C discharge rate TP7600-3S4P 11.1 volt 7600 mah X 2 in series Li-Po batteries for a total of 22.2 volts at 7600 mahs. I am using a UBEC made by Kool Flight Systems to power the reciever.

I am stripping stainless steel pinion gears and have broken 2 B50 XL motor rotors so far. The motor pinion drives directly the spur gear mounted on the center diff with no slipper clutch.

Suggestions on another motor or even using the C50 XL Hacker motor????

The battery heat has been only 10 degrees F above the air temperature after a 7 minute run. So I am not worried about the batteries.

Thank you in advance!
Tim

[DualBL]

tim, I modeled the 2250 motor, to see how it would fit in my design so far.
i got a little carried away with the details lol it's all to scale basicly, except the bearing (but i'll get to that eventually hehe)
i learned how to do decals too, so if anyone has a 2250, could you take some pics all the way around, so i can duplicate the sticker?
how's it look?
-Nick

[DualBL]

double post =\
but here's another pic anyways
-Nick

[DualBL]

triple post sry =\
-Nick

[Mr. Constructor]

@ Craps:

try to get your hands on a Slipper in the Dominator (the new or the older series, don´t know exactly) as this is a very heavy duty unit, maybe it is a good solution, the Modul of gearing will be the same, and the end drives (where the dogbones to the front and rear fitted in) should be in that way that it will be easy to make it fit,

And if this doesn´t function, try a 3rd bearing, make a pinion with a 8mm bore, then make a adapter (around 50mm long) with a 5mm H7 bore on one side and then machine it on a lathe (all other steps too) to a 5mm size on the other side, so you might be able to use a 3rd bearing, so the motor shaft will not be that much stressed (i will use it in my Mad Force conversion either, but the drawing is ready, the adapter/extra long Shaft/ Shaft extension, however you call it isn´t ready, the time is the factor, to get a 3 speed adaptor out of Titanium you really have to be patient !!

Only these 2 versions are available, the Motors (even my biggest HB 30-15) comes all with 5mm Shaft, so the problem is ALWAYS there !!

(that is the worst case in Shaft driven racing, when the load comes back (landing after a jump) to the Motor Shaft, then the Motor is greatly overloaded, in the industry this problem is solved by A: a bigger shaft (not available to us) or B: a 3rd bearing construction, we do often used it in our Constructions (i´working at B+V Dockyard in Hamburg))

Good Luck !!

@DualBL:

great drawings, but this Motor is Definetively a LOT too much for every 8th, these babes produce around 1,5-2,5 Kw, the batterys will not take place under an 8th shell !!
And the Motor is heavy too (around 360gramms up) that will make the car too heavyweight overall (around 6kg estimated)
And as i said above the shaft problem might be the same, the better way, go with a Pletti maxximum at the biggest (maybe a BIG Maxximum) and then all other relevant Motors will fit too !!

Otherwise: the drivetrain seems to be the major point that ruines a good setup, with the Motor and electrics, why do you not use the short adaptor for the rear drive to the mid drive (no dogbones, directly connected) and then a longer dogbone for the Front ?? (my self elongated dogbones or CVD´s will held all the power) then the center diff (or a slipper) will be much more backwards, giving the car, the alsmot same chassis layout than a tamiya evo 3 shaft driven car (or any other shaft driven one) THEN battery place will be better used !!

[Mr. Constructor]

@J mAn:

These esc´s will work even in a 8th conversion, if a separate cooling heatsink was added (se my post in this forum) but if you wanna have something MUCH more bigger, then go for the powerful Schulze 18.129, but don´t be afraid of the price tag, in europe it is around 380 Euro, wich seemed to be in USD around 400-450 !!!

A esc around 100 A really is enough when using up to 12 cells (wich is proven to be enough in a 8th conversion, or the equivalent in Lipos if you like)
(when going Lipo, there might be extra weight saved, so you could go little higher in the voltage and capacity)

[Craps]

Mr C
With the ESC and batteries I am using, what motor would you suggest for this combination?

I was very happy with B50 12XL except the end caps come loose, the center rotor breaking problem that I hope the slipper from an OFNA Dominator will cure and I had an on throttle clitch problem once the motor/ESC warmed up a little that made it hard to jump smoothly.

C50 12XL???? Lehner??? Plettenberg???

[Mr. Constructor]

If it should be a Hacker B 50 : B 50 7 XL, with 22V it is around 45.000 RPM !!
340gr
If C 50 : C50 8XL (but the 3,17mm Shaft recommends a 3rd bearing construction) 419gr
If Plettenberg: Big MAxximum: @ 22V around 45.000 again, but betteer torque due to the 4 pole design (your esc should do this without any problems)
(the HP 220/40/A2 S P4 Car is the other type as the Big Maxximum is only a name, the tech name is the above !!) 355gr
If: Lehner: 2230/10 (or on a request a 8 winder, but very hard to get !!) around 42.500 rpm 345 gr but other bores than all the others before !!

Best Choice in my Opinion in durability and power to weight ratio:
Big MAxximum, as the weight is mostly down, power is pushed up due to the 4 pole design AND a built in fan, wich is not even available from the other manufacturers, and the better cooling design of the can is really a benefit, even the "popp-off" thing will not happen as the HP is machined from one solid piece !!

Best solution: Big Maxximum, the Ofna dom´s slipper, AND a 3rd ball bearing construction, THEN the Motor should hold the Cars power or other way round !!

[Craps]

Thank you Mr C!

Now where to buy the Bigg Maxximum here in the USA?

[Miha]

http://www.icare-rc.com/plettenberg.htm

[Craps]

http://www.icare-rc.com/plettenberg.htm

I knew about them in Canada. Looking for someone in the USA?

Thanks
Tim

[Mr. Constructor]

I send a Mail in the past few minutes to them, hopefully they could get an answer, stay tuned !!
(If not, i could help ya out, the price will be around :
Maximum: 210 Euro, with Fan: 242 Euro, Big Maxximum: 299 Euro, plus shipping and handling, shouldn´t be a problem to get those for you !!)
If nothing else is functioning !!

See ya !!

[racinlosi]

Well, what is a good weight for a buggy to be with all of the BL stuff and no batteries? And the setup for the BL, which is a good size weight?

[Mr. Constructor]

A very good weight will be around the same or even less than a similar car in full race condition in a nitro way !! (8th : around 3 kg, 8th street car: around 2,5kg) but this hard to reach, the motor and batterys weight much, so a weight of around 3,5-4 kg is OK, if the motor produces enough power (what it will, if it is choosen right) the very light weights are only eached by a very costly total Titanium and carbon and alu use !! (most parts are very expencieve, many are even not available, try to get a Carbon chassis for a 8th !! (bottom off course !!) so the best way will be around 3,3 - 3,7 kg full ready to run !!

[Craps]

Thanks Mr C
ICare is on vacation until the 25th and Mr. fine does not have motors in stock since I quess he is in the motor manufacturing business hisself.

I ordered a Hacker C50 10XL from Hacker USA today. I am still remaking the center diff towers and I am going to use the Dominator Slipper Clutch. The 3rd bearing I am going to wait on to see if the remade tower moves my motor shaft pinion gear mounting position closer to the motor taking the stress off the end of the shaft along with the slipper taking stress off too.

Hacker USA said the rotor may have broken due to the gear stripping and overreving the motor without a load caused it to shatter the magnet. This could happen to anybody free spinning the motors without a load with a lot of voltage.

I still want a Plettenberg Big Maxximum with a fan to try later. I quess I will wait till ICare comes back to work.

Thank you
Tim

[J mAn]

Hmmm, know anywhere/one taht has a used, high capicity ESC?

[Craps]

I have a Hacker Master Comp I may want to sell!

[J mAn]

cool, email me at yopnut23@aol.com
or aim yopnut23

[Mr. Constructor]

@ craps:

the other Plettenberg reseller in the US: (I have spoken to them directly)

Firm: Shred Air , Dieter
Mahlein in Springfield 05419546842.
He is importing Plettenberg stuff in the US, they also told me that the Icare in Canada is much bigger and realy is agood one, so try both i think !!

@J mAn:
watch your post !! (about the smoked esc !!)

[J mAn]

ok, Im going to send it in but I would liek to buy one too.

[DualBL]

http://s92675604.onlinehome.us/darkside/vids/nic.wmv
-Nick

[DaFF]

OMFG, no wonder why they tried to throw you out of the race track, man, there is no way a gas buggy can cope with such a rocket LoL

Nice video, awesome beat :eek:

DFF

[racinlosi]

WOW, insane speed! Very nice buggy there!


@ NIC-

what is your complete setup your using?

[Rotary Rocket]

Wow, simply WOW...

Great car control too. :)

[NIC]

Thanks guys :) . Setup is the 18.149, B50 11L, 15 GP:s, 13T/46 gearing, Cosmic tires. Then I have a bit of an odd diff setup, 100 000 front and middle and 30 000 rear :eek: ! Reason for that is I had just been driving with the tarmac tires and didn´t have the time to change the diffs.

If you though it was fast with the 11L then you should see it with the 7XL ! Crazy !
The thing I like the most is the sound really, not far from a nitro, but without the dirt and smell. I have only positive thing about it now really.
A great car.

BIG thanks to DualBL for putting together and upploading the small clips.

Oh........ :) by the way, I´m going to Monacos Grand Prix today and to watch Formula 1 this weekend. I will shoot alot of movies and take 100:s of pictures from the event. I can they show them to you guys if you want.
I don´t think the sound of the F1-cars is better then the Kanai though :D ;) just kidding ! It´s going to be AWESOME !

Back on Monday !

See you all !

NIC

[DualBL]

this isn't related to 1/8's, but just thought you'd like to see NIC's TC.
88,3 mph ! I used 12 GP cells and 4,98:1 with the B40 6L and the 18.149.
http://s92675604.onlinehome.us/darkside/vids/other/niconroad.mpg

also, I'm uploading the 1/8 vids that were once on coldfusionracing.com/8ths. I'll post a link in the morn.
-Nick

[J mAn]

I am looking to buy a BL ESC

if anyone has someone or knows where to geta good one...

yopnut23
yopnut23@aol.com

[DualBL]

here's all the other vids i promised:

http://s92675604.onlinehome.us/darkside/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9

-Nick

[racinlosi]

Well, since the Nemesis are based on the Hacker motors, would the 11L Nemesis work the same on 15 cells?

[Mr. Constructor]

@racinlosi:

could be almost the same, but keep in mind that the magnets and the quality of the copper winding do have a GREAT effect on the motors power, maybe they´re not that good, i don´t know, from the paper datas it should be comparable !!

@J mAn

check these ones:
www.Stormerhobbies.com
www.icare-rc.com
www.Hacker-motor.com
www.castlecreations.com
www.finedesignrc.com

should be a good beginning, for more infos on ALL manufacturers and their esc´s try to search on this website (the webside is FULL of information, but a little search is needed) www.rcsaga.com)

With these Pages, you´ll be able to find anything you like, good luck !!

[DualBL]

from what I've heard from Jamie(305997) and Brian(BombProofProducts) have said, the Nemesis motors perform the same as the hackers.
-Nick

[Craps]

Jamie is going to be selling the Nemesis motors that I thought was Chris Fines motors, but I was miss lead on that one. Jamie will probably be selling them cheaper than Chris Fine.

Jason at Thunder Power has tested one that he claims the power is the same as a Hacker with equal turns, but they are not as effiecient as the Hacker.

[DualBL]

yeah, i don't know the full story, but from what I get from it, Chris Fine is an a$$, and just doesn't go along with my morals.
I wouldn't buy from Fine.
-Nick

[Craps]

The machine shop has the buggy now to make the towers to mount the new OFNA Dominator Diff with the big 62 tooth gear that I running a 20 tooth pinion gear with out of 4135 hardened steel that is alot stronger than the stainless steel ones I have been running.

We also discussed my design for a chassis and steering geometry for the WRRC attempt along with the type of drive system I am going to use. The mechanical engineer that I am using is also coming out with his own Truggy racing chassis for monster trucks and he wants to radar gun check my buggy for top speed that alot of racers think with bigger pinion gearing it could break the 100 mph barrier it self.

[DualBL]

how was the race NIC?
you didn't by any chance see that car flip did you? :P or bettr yet, get it on tape!? lol
-Nick

[NIC]

No, I didn´t get it on tape, but I saw it on the big screen infront of me. It was a really dramatic start, and a dramatic race all together.
I really can´t describe the feeling of beeing that close to the cars. The sound is amazing ! The ground is shaking ! And it´s abit special beeing in Monaco with the sound bouncing of the buildings walls.

An amazing weekend ! I really have no words to describe it !

NIC

[Craps]

I got my C50 10XL Hacker motor in and you guys definately need to go with the C50 series over the B50 series. It is appears to be alot better made for the conditions it will be used in with the end caps screwed in. It really puzzles me to why Chris Fine wanted to use a B50 motor instead of a C50 motor that I ordered directly from Hacker USA. Still waiting on the Fine Design Warranty to return my motor that I will resale since Fine Design is having trouble getting Hacker Motors in from Hacker that I ordered and recieved the same week from Hacker USA. Maybe it is the fact that is CF is hyping his new line of Nemesis motors that is supposed to be Hacker Clones.

Time to remake the center diff towers to incorporate the motor mount and the new OFNA Dominator Slipper Clutch with my new hardened steel pinion gear. I am hoping to have all the bugs worked out and race it this weekend.

[Craps]

I would to thank Mitch with Unlimited Engineering with all of his help in working the bugs out of my buggy and you guys may want to check out the products they make for E-Maxxs/T-Maxxs. Lightweight and very strong Aluminum and Titanium parts. http://www.unlimitedengineering.com

[racinlosi]

What did he help with?

[Craps]

I spent 10 hours with him on a CNC machine and made two center diff towers with one incorporating the motor mount and allowing for the OFNA Dominator Slipper with a 62 tooth gear and a new 20 tooth hardened steel pinion gear. I also mounted up the new C50 10XL motor using 3 of the 4 motor mount holes where I have been using 2.

I have also moved the reciever to the front of the buggy to get it away from the ESC wires to the motor that I have also braded to get rid of an on throttle glitch I had the last time I ran it.

Here is preliminary photo I took while we were engineering it.

[mikalius]

hey where do you get the pinion gears at?

[Rotary Rocket]

Looking good Craps.

Is this the setup you were thinking of "selling" for others to convert 1/8 buggies to BL?

My next project is to convert my OFNA 1/8 to BL. It is great that Dual BL, Cold Fusion, Outkast (BPP), and now you have conversion kit in the works.

You guys are on the right path for using the Dominator 62 tooth spur/slipper.

To all manufacturers, this is your official wake up call...get with the program and put out an electric 1/8 buggy. ;)

[NIC]

Craps, hope this will solve the bugs for you. It´s interesting to read about your progress and the noise you make around the nitro guys :).
Post your impressions about that motor once you get some runs with it.

NIC

[racinlosi]

How much would he run for a pinion gear? And also, what pitch is the OFNA MBX-R2 spur gear? I can't seem to find this out?

[Mr. Constructor]

There where only a very few OLD !! Mardave Buggies (has to be in the 80s) that do use another Pitch, as for now ALL major brands use the strong M1 pitch (wich is a metric size) you should be able to get them at finedesign, or ask Craps about them, i´m not in the us, so there are many more difficulties in getting them as here in germany !!

[mikalius]

racinlosi, hey i'm looking to find a pinion gear for my ofna ultra lx pro and cannot seem to find one either, if you do let me know i need one to complete my electric conversion. i'm using a traxxas titan motor from an emaxx.

[Craps]

https://sdp-si.com/index.asp has the mod 1 pitch pinion gear I used. It cost $96 for the hardened steel one that had to have the set screw rebored to take enough steel off the shank to get it to work and I had to use a bore reducer to get it down to 5 mm bore from 8 mm bore.

Nobody makes these in a hardened steel with a 5 mm bore and a Mod 1 pitch without it being custom made that cost more than what I paid. You need hardened steel gears to get this to work right and be a reliable piece. Stainless steel just does not hold up.

I can have a quanity of these made for less than what I paid, but in hardened steel they are still going to cost around $50 if I could sell around 20 of them.

The center diff towers are still rough blocks of aluminum without any holes made to get some weight off of them and with the Dominator slipper could be used to fit any buggy on the market, but you would still have to bore and tap the mounting holes to fit what ever buggy it was going in. You have to off set the drive train on the Mugen to the right due the extra length of the Dominator slipper that helps move the motor closer to the COG and lay both batteries down flat.

I found my on throttle glitch that was from the diodes on the front of the ESC was damaged with a little ding in one of them is requiring me to send it off for repairs. I damaged it earlier in testing when the way I had fastened the ESC slid out of the splash proof housing and damaged the diode on the chassis brace.

[sugs]

Hey guys, I've been watching this thread with great interest now for a couple of weeks and I'm finding it very informative. I've been wanting to convert my GS Storm to brushless and lipo power for quite some time so this thread is very inspiring. I have a question for Craps about the Hacker C50 motor, which I think is definitely the right motor to use since it has a stronger heat sink style case. What I was wondering is how much larger it is than the B50 motors. I've been able to find size specs on the B50's, but not on the C50's.

Craps, I also think that your pinion problem will possibly go away with the addition of that slipper in the drive train and you may no longer need hardened steel ones. Hey NIC, do you ever have problems with pinions? I've seen the videos of your buggy and as fast as it is it seems you would've encountered the same problem as Craps. Are you doing something different?

Anyway, keep up the good work guys and I hope I'm not intruding. The electric scene has needed a spark for some time now and I think this is just the thing to do it.

[NIC]

sugs, from the info in Hackers program for 2004 the lenght of the C50 is like this:

C50 S: 50,5mm
C50 L: 60,5mm
C50 XL: 74,8mm

And all have a diameter of 43,2mm with 25mm between the M3 screws.

And no, I haven´t have any problems with my pinion/spur gears... :confused:. Really no problems with the drivetrain at all, and I haven´t been driving carefully all the time. What I have had is some kingpin-screws and both front wheel screws coming loose from doing crazy donuts, and therefore the wheels have fall off :). Just thoose "rookie" :) failures, that´s it ! Nothing linked to the conversion from nitro to electric.
Well one thing that gets some abuse is the battery cells. When driving on rough surfaces, small rocks tend to seek its way up on the main chassie and cut through the shrink wrap. Care must be taken here so a short doesn´t accur. I can´t think of anything else right now.

A 1/8 buggy is however a really fun and rubust car if you just want to bash. The perfect vehicle for that I think. But for the money you spent on it, it really needs to come "home" sometimes and be pushed at a real offroad track. Something that I don´t have the time for always.

Welcome to this thread, I hope you find the right inspiration and info here to build your own beast soon.
I will try and help as much as I can with what I have learned and provide videos and reports as often as my car changes.

NIC

[Craps]

I think the diameter difference is 8mm where the B50 can is 36mms and the C50 can is 44mms. The XLs length is the same, but the C50 motor is alot better construction wise with both end caps secured with plenty of fasteners versus the B50 is end caps that just push in place.

I believe the difference in what NIC is doing with his buggy and what I am doing is that I am jumping over 10 feet high in the air and landing 40 to 50 feet from the jump which with the extra weight and the tramatic shock put through the drive train makes it very hard on the gears. I don't know what material NIC's pinion gears are made of, but I hope it is better than that stainless steel or carbon steel one I have found until I got yhis hardened steel one.

This buggy is at least 1 pound heavier than a gas buggy and can still out jump one by about 2 feet vertically and 10 to 15 feet horizontally on the same jumps.

Right now I need to repair 2 of the 5 capacitors on the 40.160 ESC to get rid of an on throttle glitch.

[racinlosi]

Craps-

So how do I ask them about the price about it? And what info do I need to give them? And what would the price be for what I need in Hardened steel and stainless steel? Sorry, but I have no clue about most of this kind of stoff right now, so it's a learning prossess for me...

[Craps]

Craps-

So how do I ask them about the price about it? And what info do I need to give them? And what would the price be for what I need in Hardened steel and stainless steel? Sorry, but I have no clue about most of this kind of stoff right now, so it's a learning prossess for me...

Ask who? (them???) If it is SDP-SI, what motor are you using and the shaft size will start? 5mm bore with a mod 1 pitch is input on the online ordering part for https://sdp-si.com/index.asp.

[Craps]

Craps, I also think that your pinion problem will possibly go away with the addition of that slipper in the drive train and you may no longer need hardened steel ones. Hey NIC, do you ever have problems with pinions? I've seen the videos of your buggy and as fast as it is it seems you would've encountered the same problem as Craps. Are you doing something different?

Here is a web site that posted pics of my buggy flying when we raced it there back on May 8th. Go the far right and look for the yellow buggy in the 3rd and 4th pictures down from the top. Notice the 3rd picture down and see how much of a lead it had on the start and how high it is going downward when the other gas buggies are leveled off behind it. In the 4th pic it was sailing over a table top jump with about 20' of run up to it and jumping around 40' to 50'.

Check it out here: http://www.theracetrack.50megs.com/photo.html

[Mr. Constructor]

@craps:

maybe this idea will help ya a little more, shall i try to get the lenght and diameter of all the c50 and b 50 rotors ??

meaning: try to find a similar or little shorter rotors to fit a 5mm shafted rotor in this better housing , then you have thge best of both worlds ??

maybe this and the other described things (as you already done: slipper, and then 3rd bearing) but then try to get a holder UNDER that motor, then the lenght isn´t that mayor factor anymore (even the c50 can COULD break)

maybe this tougher bigger shafted rotor will help you a lot better ??
(i will contact hacker itself if you wish )

[racinlosi]

Craps-

Yes, SDP-SI is what I mean. Well, I really get a little confused on that site a little bit( :o ), so if your giving me a link to where I can find that product at, I can't seem to find it... And it's for the B50 8S motor. Oh, and thank you very much for helping me here with my pinion problem...

mikalius-

I hope you are watching this, Craps isn't just answering my question, he's also answering yours. Just your minion might be a little bit different in the bore size...

[Craps]

Racinlosi
The link: https://sdp-si.com/index.asp Go to top left habd corner and select SDP/SI Order Online. Let page load and change the parts index box from inches to metric (click the reset parts index and have patience). Click on gear, then spur gears, then metal. Now you have the main page up and change the first column titled Module (pitch) to 1. Then change the other coluns to suit your needs with the material AISI 4135 is the hardest metal but it does not come in a 5 mm bore. There are alot of options to change and pick from along with drawings of the gear showing measurements by picking the part number of the gear. You may still have to modify the gear after you get it with some machine work.

Bore Reducers are in the parts index under Shafts and Accessories. So you may want to reduce the bore size from 6 or 8 mm down to 5 mm.

Good luck!

[sugs]

Thanks for the info guys, I really appreciate it.

[racinlosi]

Craps, wouldn't I need it in the pinion? Not spur?

[DualBL]

Shawn, those are pinions. SDP just lists them on their site as spurs, but for use in RC, they're the same as pinions.
-Nick

[racinlosi]

ohh...ok. Thank you for pointing that out to me... :)


And a few more questions-

With the Pitch Diameter abd the Hub Diameter, what are those for? And do I really need to find those out for me? And how to I find that out?

[CharlieS]

Hi Guys, Sorry for such a lame question, but do you have sites that have Body Off pics of the conversions that are available. We've made one here and it works very well. Actually incorporated the heavy duty slipper that Robinson makes for the Emaxx. Gearing may be an issue.

Also any websites that have these conversions for sale. I'm sure it's all here, but who has time to scan through 10 pages of a forum? Not today anyway.

Thanks,
Charlie

Also, No I don't know when the new HV Maxx will be available, we are still testing.

[glassdoctor]

CharlieS

Hey, are you the Charlie from Novak? When is the HV system going to be ready?

Yeah, funny... I had to ask j/k.

I would love to see your conversion.... fire some pics to DualBL who can post pics at www.darkside-racing.com

[DualBL]

glass, the darkside-racing.com site is going to be down for a while..
while I had no problem finding a host for the site with the message board, as soon as i added the videos to the server, i quickly went over the 5gb/month bandwidth limit...
thank god that the coppermine gallery was on a different server.
you can still see the pics of buggies at:
http://s93886278.onlinehome.us/
I'll be making a ******.net account for the 1/8 vids i have, but just havn't had time.
thanks
-Nick

[sugs]

sugs, from the info in Hackers program for 2004 the lenght of the C50 is like this:......

NIC

Hey Nic,

Do you have some kind of Hacker computer catalog with more detailed info in it? If you do, is it something I can get?

-Sugs

[Mr. Constructor]

I think NIC meant a Flyer that is lying in the package of all Hacker motors, it shows the new 2004 programm, wich reminds me on the new esc´s, i showed several weeks or months ago:

the master sport and the master comp. are now :
1. Master B Car Race (as the new sport model)
tech datas: cells from 4-8 much better accl.NO COGGING if everything is done right, the 32Khz mode was left, and a better (much more punch from the bottom) 4khz mode was realized, the esc is much smaller (view the comp. pic)
and it is splash water protected !! (and the current limiter now is in 4 steps, 40, 60 80 unlimited, much better than before, you really realise a MUCH better difference between, the same price than the old sport.
2. Master B Car Comp. same features than above, but not 70-80 A around 100-110 A !! (same cell count)
3. A small mini one, mostly for the mini t or similar cars !!
(same features, much smaller again,even than the newer ones, but "only" 25 A-30A

4. yet not released, not officially available:
a 4-12 cell built in BEC very high power version, wich should be able to test in a few weeks (i spoke to them, they will try to get me the latest version as a replacement for my "old" (was only a few months old) old Competition version.

These are the news at all, the shipping has started in germany, i do NOT know any dates when the first ones will be available in the US, sorry!!

Here´s the comparison, the white box is the old esc, then the new alu cooling housing and the warrior 7018 for comparison.

The dotted line shows the size of the smaller new one in/on the old housing (the esc was fitted into the car, so a built out only for a shoot was to complicated))

[Mr. Constructor]

As most of use saw the F201 chassis as one of the smallest roomed chassis out there, here is a Bl conversion with a Hacker b40 S, and the new esc.
really a small one, NOW it will be much easier to outfit a Car with Bl, as the cogging is lost (if the gearing, car type to motor type and all things are done OK) totally, i could crawl around with half the speed of a old lady !!
(without having any trouble to get to full speed in a very hard fast pull on the trigger, the motor simply won´t stutter !!

[Rotary Rocket]

That is GREAT news about the release of the new generation of Hacker controllers.

[sugs]

I hope the new esc's come out soon. I went to RCX this year and watched the Hacker guys demo the new one with a 6t C40 in a couple of triple X 4's. Never saw any cogging. They were also running Thunder power 7.4 volt lipo's. 5700 mah I think they said. The cars were incredibly fast, acceleration and top speed, faster even than the pro's 1/8 scale buggies. They were getting higher off the jumps than anyone else on the stunt track.

[Craps]

Ok guys! Check this out: http://techtalk.teamtrinity.com/tt/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8060

$5,000 to win 1/8th scale race and my buggy is approved to race in it.

Now if I could just get it to run for 1 hour non-stop and not weigh a ton????

[DaFF]

Very cool Craps !

I think you should shoot for 1/2 hour batt capacity, you'll detroy them even going slow because they would have to do at least 8/10 pit stops anyway !

I wish you the best luck !

DFF

[Craps]

I think you should shoot for 1/2 hour batt capacity, you'll detroy them even going slow because they would have to do at least 8/10 pit stops anyway !

The way I secure batteries is with commerical grade velcro on the entire length of the battery along with 2 velcro straps bolted to the chassis for each battery. It would take too long to change batteries and may even damage them doing it in a hurry. You have to strap those babies in real good due to the weight and the speed of the buggy flipping violently in a crash will eject them from the buggy. Pit stops are not an option, but if you can get it to run 10 to 15 minutes without thermalling, one hour should be no problem if the battery capacity will handle it. I may have to go to Tanic for some 15,000 mah batteries that will add even more weight to the buggy. $800 for a set of batteries to run 1 hour to maybe win $5000.

[DaFF]

Understand !

I would rather do a special bracket - made of CF and some strong battery tape for example - but since I don't have all the given ( configuration, space yady/yada I am not sure it is even an option for you )

Just a tad curious but are you saying you have only one set of batt ? Because I saw your pics were you charge them INSIDE your bug...

Anyway, I am sure if it was easy you would have an answer to that.

I hope you'll kick all their nitro butt, you already deserve to win with your elec bug !

BTW, go there to have a look at the Extreme Flight CF batt for heli, there are awesome pics of a kind of CF tray to hold all the cells, might give you some idea... I like the airflow design, with shims in between cells that keep a slight gap for each cell. That's the way mine is, with gaps between each cells, I guess that's what make them so special and able to widhstand 14C continuous.

http://www.flightpower.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=40524400

watch here how they strap it to the heli as well, pretty smart if you ask me...

http://www.flightpower.co.uk/index.php

Just looking at the design, I was sold, and that's the reason why I bought mine from them.

Hope this helped

DFF

[Craps]

DaFF
If you just use those 3 velcro straps per battery pictured for the helicopter on an 1/8th scale buggy racing it on the tracks I run mine on jumping 15 feet in the air and slapping the chassis hard on the ground, you will be dragging the batteries around on the ground by they're wires outside of the buggy. Been there done that.

Both sides of my chassis pan are velcro to attach the full length and width of each battery to hold it down along with the straps.

[Rotary Rocket]

Craps, if you are serious about doing this 1 hour race (which I know you are :D ) you should think about doing 1 maybe 2 pit stops.

Adding extra capacity (in the form of more parallel cells) will of course add weight, which will make your buggy not handle well, put extra pressure on all parts, and even the batts (landing off of jumps).

FG (1/5 scale german manufacturer) has a plastic battery craddle with two holes at each end, they also have mounting posts which you can mount to your chassis. The distance from one hole to the other is 215mm, how long are your 3S4P packs? Then you use two body style pins to put on and take off the batteries.

You will need to buy yet another set of packs, 4 of these batt craddles, and two sets of posts. Then securly attach your packs to the craddles (zip ties, velcro, or racing tape).

Also where the batteries would contact your chassis mount some low "dense foam" to protect your packs when you land hard.

There you have it, unplug batts, two pins (per pack) to remove each pack, and reverse to put in the next packs.

If you are using your "dirver" for this race then you could do the pit stops and take enough care to make sure you don't damage your packs.

Let me know if you want me to post pics of this batt craddle.