Fastest E Maxx set up [Archive] - Radio Control Zone

Craps

04-02-2004, 03:21 AM

First you post "Money will not be an issue" and then you post this??????

1 for now. i dont have 800 to spend at the moment.

It is ok to have a budget, but if you want to whoop some T-Maxx buttt, you need Li-Pos for batteries to run with them in a 20 minute main. I quess a pair of TP8000-3S4Ps 11.1 volt Lithium Poly batteries are out of the question for almost $500 and a pair of Astro Flight 109 chargers to go with them at another $250 is definately out too.

22.2 volts for that C50 Hacker motor and a Schulze 18.97KWF ESC would definately kick some T-Maxx buttt for over 20 minutes.

Give us a budget to work with?????

BlueBeast8-Port

04-02-2004, 06:34 AM

Hello, well i mean i have enough for a BL set up but not 2 of them for 800 or so. I also do not have the money for 750 or so for li pos. I was going to run my matched 7 cell gp 3300's. Give me a powerful one motor set up for that. I know the master comp by hacker only holds 12 cells. Have you heard of the 14 celll one yet? Also here my question: Hacker, lehner motor? which one and which type and which esc. I am thinking around the 400 range or so. I can also go up to 20 cells too. About how fast would i go with the c50 of 20 cells of matched gp 3300's? that compared to a normal lipo? and what about that set up with a lehner? All help appriciated.

Craps

04-02-2004, 10:22 AM

Go with the C50 Hacker motor and a Schulze 18.97KWF ESC. It is a much better ESC than the Hacker ESC that is unavailable at this time. The bad news it is more expensive and will not fit a $400 budget. It can handle up to 18 cells and is the same thing that I am running in my 1/8th buggy. You will need a BEC or you are going to have to run a reciever pack with both ESCs.

Compare the packs by voltage, number of cells times 1.2 volts each for nickel batteries versus 3.7 volts per cell for the Thunder Power Li-Pos.

20 cells equals 24 volts versus 6 Li-Po cells equals 22.2 volts. Lots of juice either way. I just like to go fast for alot longer period of time with 8200 mahs versus 3300 mahs.

Good Luck!!!!

OptimaMan

04-02-2004, 01:46 PM

Yeah, get the Schulze 18.97 kwf like Craps says - I have both schulze and hacker and schulze makes the better controller - but my old beater Hacker Master Sport has worked just fine - just not as smooth nor as many cell handling.

If you are going to stick with your batteries that you have already, you can go ahed and get a Hacker C50 maxx for 200+ but for less money and same performance, you can get a Lehner Basic XL 3100 or 3600 or for a realllly hot setup get the 4200 or 5000. I have both the 3100 and 5000. On 12 cells, the 3100 tops out at around 38 mph or so in 2nd gear using 18 pinion and 66 spur. The 5000 goes over 40 mph using a 12 tooth and goes up to 45 with a 15 tooth - but it REALLY sucks up the juice (like 4-5 minutes). I mostly find myself bashing around with the 5000 with 12 tooth in 1st gear which gives me a top speed of close to 30 but sooooooo mmmmmuuuuuucccchhhh torque. Then occasionally I'll pop it into 2nd gear for high speed.

BlueBeast8-Port

04-02-2004, 02:02 PM

Hello, Ok well i Am going with the 18.97kwf. What price does that run. i can get one for around 175 on ebay i believe. Also now what will be faster. This ESC with the lehner 5000 or the Hacker C50? This is on 2 9 cell matched GP 3300's. I do not have the moeny for Li-Pos. What will be the speeds with the 5000 and c50 and runtimes? This is on 9 cell gp 3300's. Also what is a BEC. i was palnning on using a pack ofr the electonix but what is a BEC?

glassdoctor

04-02-2004, 07:43 PM

I gotta ask this.. exactly what battery setup are you wanting to do? You said 9 cells and 20 cells.... ???

Makes a big difference in what motor you should run and the speed you will get...

Personally I don't like stuffing more than 12-14 cells on an emaxx... it gets heavy with 20 or so. I ran a dual 12 cell setup to get wnough runtime for a 15 minute main and it ran fine, but it's just a lot-o-battery for one truck, imo.

A C50 is really fast on 12-14 cells... if you want to run 18, that's fine... but you probably should check out the "MAXX 14" version that is more suited to the higher voltage... (14 for 14 cells as opposed to the original c50 maxx)

Someone can correct me if that's not quite right...

OptimaMan

04-02-2004, 09:51 PM

Bluebeast: The 18.97 kwf cannot be had on ebay. Never seen it... brand new it goes for over 350 with S&H these days. You can get a Hacker Master Sport which, like I said earlier, is not as smooth or handle more than 12 cells but I've seen it on ebay for around 100 bucks.

Once again, I say, there is no single fastest motor. For a given number of cells, there is an appropriate motor for max power though. For 12 cells, it's gotta be the Basic XL5000 (which I have) and it goes over 45 mph. With 14 cells it's the XL4200 which should give you slightly more speed or run time (depending on gearing). For 18 cells it's the XL3100 or C50 Maxx motor (both motors are really similar) which should top out at around 50ish mph.

The thing is, that much speed is useless because over 40 mph, tires start ballooning and run times are really low. In addition, everything gets too hot. My opinion for racing/bashing/fun is mid 30's mph. With that setup, you'll go mid 20's in first gear and mid 30's in second gear. You'll pull wheelies in either first or second gear and have decent run time too. Even with this "slow" setup, I'm sure you can outrace a T-Maxx anyday due to the instant on torque. What setting will give you this? C50 Maxx or the 3100. A little hotter will be the 4200 but you'll be using a pretty small pinion - somewhere between 12-14 on 66 spur.

BlueBeast8-Port

04-02-2004, 09:58 PM

Ok well here. I was originally thinking of 20 cells (10 on each side) but than u said the 18.97 can only hold 18 so i switched to 9 on each side. Thats that. Ok here swhat i want i guess. I want to be able to be faster and torqier than the 2.5 maxx so whoop it. I want to have some decent run times also. Probably 45-50 ish MPH and a few wheelies ehre and there and to be able to have good enough run times to race. Which motor and ESC would be good for this? thasnks for all help guys

OptimaMan

04-02-2004, 10:17 PM

With 18 cells. I'd get the 18.97 kwf (350$), which is what I use. Then get the Basic XL3100 or C50 maxx motor. The Basic XL3100 is just as good as the maxx motor but costs less. With this setup, my recommendation on gearing is using a 14-15 pinion and 66 spur. This should get you in the 45-50 mph zone in 2nd gear and in first gear should take you to about 35 mph. Run time depends on weight of vehicle and how you run it but in first gear you should be getting at least 10 minutes. I'm warning you right now though - you will be BLOWN away by the acceleration and power. AND, you better have the drivetrain strengthened to handle the extra weight and power.

The controller and motor combo will set you back about $550.

glassdoctor

04-02-2004, 11:57 PM

I agree... the XL3100 and C50 are good. For the Hacker, you can go cheaper and get basicly the same motor for $159 here... http://www.finedesignrc.com/cars-trucks.asp it's the B50 12s, a C50 without the finned can. Or the B50 8L which has similar k/v in a longer, more powerful can. All these will be similar...

18 cells will be awesome with these, but 14 or 16 would also eat Tmaxxs for breakfast, imo... if you want to lighten it up a bit.

I run a C50 on just 12 cells, geared 20/66 1st gear and everybody's jaw drops watching it run down the screaming nitros. :D On the tack it's a nice fast, but controllable setup. I get at least 8 minutes on 3300s, but never really timed it. I can finish a 5 min qual. on 2000 packs, if you remember those...

One tip for you... if you go with a C50 and 18 cells you will have to gear down like Optima said... 15/66 etc, but the motor can is too fat for this gear... it won't fit. So you have to go with a larger spur to space the motor away from the tranny case. Not a big deal, just FYI

I'll leave your threads alone now unless you ask by name

BlueBeast8-Port

04-03-2004, 08:04 AM

Hello, no u can keep posting glassdoctor. I like all the help and info and tips i can get. One last question too. Will run time increase with 2 9 cell packs compared to 2 7 cell packs or jsut power and same runtime? Where can i order this stuff up the cheapest? Also if i happen to find it on eBay, is BL a setup that i may have to worry about being a defect and getting jipped? Otherwise i will go threw online site or hobby shop. (I dont know if a hobby shop can get the KWF?) Can they?> thanks If any of you have AOL IM, please IM me at SSupermaNN09 . thank you

OptimaMan

04-03-2004, 05:05 PM

On ebay, make sure you buy stuff from somebody with decent feedback. 2 9 cell packs will either give more run time or power or both depending on gearing. The 18.97 I've only seen at Fine Design though. The maxx motor I've seen on ebay go for up to 200 bucks.

metalry101

04-03-2004, 11:55 PM

K, I've basically got the same question, although I've got a few specs to work within...

I have a heavy truck, it's not all alum, I'm not that dumb, but I do run the Bombproof Torpedo chassis w/ alum braces, alum bulks, alum shocks, and anything from TRC Park tires to the 7" HB tires. Not a small or light truck by any means. I want speed, don't need insanity, but 35-40 would be nice. Obviously w/ a truck that heavy, I need some torque. Also, I live in Utah, if you haven't ever seen our license plates, they say "Best Snow on Earth." It's true, and we get alot of that snow. I'm not gonna park a 1500 dollar truck 4 months of the year because it's wet outside, so I'd prefer a controller (they're called controllers for BL, not ESC's, right???) that can handle a little water. I don't submerge the truck by any means, but it does get a little wet sometimes. So, if possible, I'd prefer to pick up a controller that could handle that. I have lotza matched packs (3000HV's and 2400's), so that shouldn't be too much of a concern. To review, I'd like a suggestion for a good setup that...
-Can push a relatively heavy truck
-Can be geared radically different for different tires
-Runs strong on 12 cells
-Is water resistant
-Cheaper is better, but I'm willing to save longer for something that's definately worth the extra money.
-Hopefully from a company w/ good customer service (hopefully I'd never need it, but ya never know)

From what I've gathered from the posts, it sounds like...
18.97 KWF
4200XL or C50

But I'd like an opinion based on my exact needs and wants. Thanx

BlueBeast8-Port

04-04-2004, 09:33 AM

Wow, sounds like your looking for the same as me. We seem to have very closely related trucks. I have the bomb-proof race bomb chassis, alum. front bulks, shocks, chassis braces, skids. 40 series bowties on osme mambos. Racey style bashing truck. As of now i have 22 matched gp 3300 cells to work with. I beleive i am going to go with the 18.97 kwf and run 2 9 cell packs at a time. Believe i am also going with the hacker c50. Unless the lehner punches out more of everything for cheaper? Where can i get this schulze controller? I can pick up the hacker c50 at my LHS for a reasonable $215. Also where can i pick up the lehner motor? Now one last question. With optional gearing what speed am i looking at with the 18.97kwf, c50 motor, 2 9 cell 33's with approx.12 min. run time? thank you.

glassdoctor

04-04-2004, 11:12 AM

I'll see if I can help a bit... don't forget one of the most important thing when you are choosing bl motors is the k/v specs... rpm per volt. This tells you how much speed to expect form a given # of cells when comparing like motors. The 4200XL is a higher rpm motor (4200k/v) than a C50, which is about 3000k/v. So the Basic 3100XL would be a closer match. I know the C50 easily gets you 35-40 on 12 cells. The 4200XL may actually be better if you want tons of torque over speed.

Metalry, check out also a Hacker C50L or B50L. These are monger more powerful motors... they have more torque than the normal C50. Finedisign has the B50 8L as a recomended Maxx motor, check it out...

http://www.finedesignrc.com/cars-trucks.asp

They also have a new waterproof controller that may work for you. It's a "boat" esc but it does have brakes and should be ok in a maxx.. but I would call Castle or Finedesign and see what they think. Castle is quickly becoming a player in bl toys....

Bottom line with this stuff is there are a bunch of options that will work great... it's not like there's only a couple good setups. Within reason, you can take about any motor and make it work with gearing and batteries.

Some guys want a cool-running, long runtime setup, and some want high power, battery-dumping all out speed. Some want to run 10-12 cells and sme run 18-20+. It's these things that affect what type of setup to get.

The C50 and XL motors in the 3000-4000 k/v range are very good motors, well suited to a maxx.

BlueBeast, I still have not figured out if "2 9 cells" means 9 cells or 18. I assume you mean 18 cells (21.6volts). Just say 18 cells. It doesn't matter if it will be separate packs or not. I run two 6 cell packs, but I just say 12 cells for clarity. If this is the case, you will probably not get 12 min... more like 7-10.

But if you mean 9 cells (10.8 volts and 6600mah) then you will get more than 12 min... maybe 15+.

The C50 is genreally thought to do @40mph on 12 cells... so 18 would obviously bump that siginificantly. 9 cells? probably 30-35 still. Faster than a stock E :)

BlueBeast8-Port

04-04-2004, 11:48 AM

Hello again. Ok i will be running 18 cells for your clarification, lol. I dont understand how i wouldget more run time from 9 cells than 18? on 18 cells would the lehner 4200XL or C50 be better? Which one is faster and which has more torque? What run time should i be expecting? Thank you very much. My choice keeps getting closer. Down to the 18.97KWF for sure and either c50 or lehner 4200XL. Glassdoctor, if you have AOL IM would you please IM me at SSupermaNN09? thank you.

OptimaMan

04-04-2004, 04:17 PM

I wouldn't run 18 cells with the 4200. No more than 14 cells because it'll spin too fast.

OptimaMan

04-04-2004, 06:24 PM

Just got back in from my speed run with my Lehner Basic 4200 on 12 GP3300 cells. Geared 14/66, my top speed in first gear is 29.7 mph and in second gear was 40.1. The 40.1 was measured in both directions. It was probably going faster, but I kept on flipping (the tires would balloon like crazy and I'd lose control). Oddly enough, this is considerably faster than last year when I was using 12 Sanyo 3300's vs. 12 GP 3300's!!!

Today is around 50 degrees F outside and after running and bashing for a good 10 minutes (mostly in first gear), the motor was 125 degrees f. batteries were 90 and controller was 85. Now, keep in mind, in first gear I'm going FASTER than a stock emaxx in 2nd gear with waaaayyyy more acceleration.

With this much speed, power, acceleration, I find it hard to believe you guys really want to go faster (longer run times, I see, but faster?) Next run is going to be with the stock tires because the bow-tie prolines are too wobbly.

metalry101

04-04-2004, 06:36 PM

Well that kind of setup sounds pretty good to me. What controller are you running again? 18.97 right? How heavy is your truck, and could that setup be geared a little higher for some extra speed (I don't want the extra speed because I'm a speed freak,I want it because E's don't fly very far unless you get tonza speed)? Also, is there enough room to gear down considerably, to something like a 10 tooth, so that I could run my 7" tires and/or get increased run time?

glassdoctor

04-04-2004, 06:41 PM

I had a reply all typed up about run time, etc and then got distracted and lost it all. :mad:

Optima, thanks for the test run results. Can you gear up a little more to get a few more mph, or is that close to maxing out, no pun intended? Not that you need to go faster than 40, but I just wondered if there is still some HP left in the 4200...

As for the runtime thing, lets just say a rule of thumb is that if you add a couple cells, and everything else remains the same, the runtime will actually decrease a bit. I know it seems to go against the basic W=A x V formula, but...

Runtime is simply determined by the capacity of the battery in amp-hours. The battery pack remains 3.3 amp hours (3300mah) no matter how many cells you add to it. A 4 cell pack and a 24 cell pack both have 3.3 amp hours of energy in them.... only the voltage is different.

If you take your 2 packs and connect them in parallel, then the voltage will be the same as one pack but the amp hours doubles... 6600mah.

So, you could have (2) 10 cell packs in parallel (12volt, 6600mah) with a 4200XL and get 15-20 minutes run time and still get pretty good speeds. Just as an example... I haven't run the #'s or heard anyone with this setup. Running parallel packs is a good setup if you bash and want runtime, but remember the more weight you lug around in the truck, the more it puts a load on the motor...

As a side point, many BL users have reported very goos results with parallel packs because it doubles the ability of the battery to supply the juice and the batterie stay cooler because they share the load....

metalry101

04-04-2004, 06:42 PM

Two more things...
Any problems w/ the truck durability wise? W/ the tranny? I've got CVD's f/r/c so that's no problem. What about the slipper?

Also, say 6 months or a year from now I decided my truck needs to hit warp speed and I want to run 2 motors (and I'd assume 2 controllers would be necessary). Would that setup accomadate much much taller gearing (something closer to stock, like 19 tooths or something) and still run cool enough? I figure it would be a 24 cell setup w/ that (but only 12 cells worth of voltage, just 12 cells to each controller and motor combo). Would that work?

glassdoctor

04-04-2004, 07:07 PM

Yeah.. that all sound fine. Two motors do require two escs, and dual packs like you mentioned are best.

I will warn you though that some guys with BL power report shredding their drivetrain, even with cvds... :eek: I don't beat on mine unmercifullly, and I have had no such problems yet... but I have stock sliders that look like twizlers now. I run a Robinson slipper.. works great. And it's a cheap upgrade.

With a dual motor setup, yes you can gear up because you have twice the torque... with only a modest weight gain.

Anyone here been running a dual BL?

jocktheglide

04-04-2004, 07:12 PM

Hiam at RCnuts.net has a 60mph clocked emaxx with his gps. The fastestest I believe is by a guy name promo it hit 65mph clocked by gps also. they are over at maxxtraxxusa.com you can talk to them building a faster emaxx. I believe they believe a 1 motor setup is faster than a twin motor setup.

metalry101

04-04-2004, 07:28 PM

Well the single motor being faster than a dual motor setup is quite likely, but I'd assume that's one of the 400 dollar motor and a 700 dollar controller. Also, I don't think I'd run dual motors all the time. That was only a theory, like if I bought a Twin Force or a TXT-1 and made it BL as well and decided to run both systems in the E or something. So, a 4200XL and 18.97 would be the hot ticket for me you think? If so, I'll start saving up and selling stuff so that I can get all that into my truck, w/ that slipper (been meaning to buy that for the last year and a half anyways).

OptimaMan

04-04-2004, 08:04 PM

Alright, here we go:

The Basic 4200 has taken my emaxx to 43 mph last fall with my old Sanyo batteries. It was geared 17/66. I'm pretty sure that 45 is easily within reach with the newer GP3300's. Now, this isn't even the XL4200, it's the Basic 4200!!!!

I understand that "doubling up the pipeline" will increase capacity and hence runtime. But it's not as simple as that. If you want more efficiency, it's better to raise the voltage and gear shorter to use less amps. So, getting a 3100 motor with 18 cells in series with a 12 tooth pinion is better in terms of power, efficiency, and even run time than it is to get that same motor and put 9 x 2 cells with a 24 tooth pinion. I could go into detail, but I explained it pretty well in another post.

The 4200 or the 4200XL CANNOT be used for more than 14 cells w/o seriously putting the motor in danger of failing. Right now with 12 cells in first gear, my motor is revving at 61,000 rpm (calculated rpm based on actual speed, FDR, etc.) which gives it 29.7 mph (GPS verified two way speed). Now, I know somebody out there is going to say, "That's more than 4200 rpm/volt and figuring in voltage drop blah blah blah". The Basic 4200 is measured with load. Under light load, you'll get more than 4200 rpm/volt and heavy load, you'll get less plus voltage drop of the batteries.

The stock plastic CVD's are like Twizzlers as somebody said - but I already have CVD's ready to install as soon as it breaks. I'm using Robinson Racing slipper kit, high speed, high torque steering servo, and everything else is bone stock.

Dual motor vs. single motor. That's another thread...

I'm gonna try to break the 50 mph this summer with only 12 cells. Then after that, I'm going to try to break all emaxx records later on.

Right now with the single basic 4200 geared 14/66, I can instantly flip in first gear (I've tried to do a complete backflip - if I had a rollcage, I believe I can flip it back so hard, it'll do a complete 360 and get back on it's wheels again). In 2nd gear, it'll wheelie easily from a standing start. Oh, BTW, in first gear, it'll wheelie - even if I'm already rolling at 5-10 mph!

metalry101

04-04-2004, 08:18 PM

Alright, that's cool. So, considering my heavier truck and bigger tires, would I want the 4200XL? What is the difference between the XL and the standard 4200? Just longer and more powerful? Different amp draw I'd assume?

BlueBeast8-Port

04-04-2004, 08:56 PM

OptimaMan

04-04-2004, 10:41 PM

The XL is longer. The rotor diameter is 3/4 inch and 1 inch long. The standard basic is 3/4 inch diameter and approx 5/8 inch long so you can expect approx 40% less torque, but expect to pull more amps though. You can see a picture of this on my web site:

http://home.comcast.net/~youngsongdmd/rotor.jpg

The smaller one is the novak rotor and the larger one is the XL rotor.

Do you know how hard it is to stuff 28 cells into an emaxx? Not to mention the weight? The Hacker controllers definitely CANNOT be used for low speed cruising/rock climbing due to their on/off nature. The Schulze controllers are way more smooth and low speed handling is a lot better. For 600 bucks, get a Lehner Basic XL3100 and Schulze 18.129 controller from Fine Design and put 18 cells to it and you'll be going over 50 w/o even breaking a sweat (assuming good GP3300's vs. beater old cells).

Have you even run an emaxx on 12 good cells with BL?

glassdoctor

04-04-2004, 11:04 PM

Good posts, Optima.

Guys, you need to pay attention to what has been said so far. And take a look at the specs charts of the motors.. look at the k/v ratings of each wind and how it changes with the L and XL series... it would help you understand the answers to some of the "which motor should I get" questions.

here's one http://www.finedesignrc.com/hackerspecs.htm

The 4200 is a high rpm motor, and you keep asking about using it with 18 cells, etc... do the math, it about 80,000 rpm... that tells you it's too much.

If you want to run 18 cells, drop to a lower k/v motor. Like Optima said, the 3100 would be better, even a 2800 would be awesome, and efficient.

I have the Hacker 16 cell controller, and I would not recomend it based on the # of these that heve gone up in smoke. And Hacker kinda waffles on whether you should actually run 16 cells or not. Seems to me that it would be easier on teh controller to run 16 and gear lower... as this wouldr educe the amps, but I am afraid to because of all the troubles I heard about last year.

Anyway, if you have $800, DON"T spend it on a 2 Hacker setups, at least until they release the new and improved(?) controllers.

Get the 18.97 and pick your motor... as said above ^

BlueBeast8-Port

04-05-2004, 07:01 AM

Hello. I am not sure what to do on a controller yet. HAve any of you heard when HAcker's may come out? I am hopeing to see a 18.97 kwf on eBay so i can grab it a bit cheaper. I remember i saw a schulze controller on eBay a while ago for the e maxx (maybe the 18.61?) and it went for around $200! I see the Lehner 4200XL puts about about 80000 RPM's on 16 cells and 70000 on 14 cells. So i assume 16 cells would be mighty fast. I am also guessing the 3600 or 3100 have less speed but more torque? Would i pull wheelies with the 4200XL still very easy? See I want to race also (guess i shoulda mentioned that) but also bash too. I want some wheelies but not major all the time. I want to good top speed amybe round high 40's low 50's, round 50 somewhere in second off of 14-16 cells. Im guess the lehner is a better motor than the c50? thanks I finally got the whole RPM/V thing figured out.

jocktheglide

04-05-2004, 07:42 AM

Hello. on eBay right now is a guy selling 2 c50 motors and 2 hacker master car sport opto controllers. he wants $800! I would trade him my tc3 but he needs cash. i saw o nthe controllers that they hold 6-16 cells! i never new hacker had a 16 cell controller! Why not get that one? What up with it that u guys dont mention it! Also what speeds and runtime would i get with 2 c-50's and lets say about 28 cells? Will i get massive speed increases and can i say bye bye to tranny and diffs?

he is also ripping if you off if you do it cause the hacker esc have been known to be troulbe for the emaxx you can get a C50 from other folks that sell it for like 160 bucks now. 800 is way too much for that system.

jocktheglide

04-05-2004, 07:44 AM

here you go speed tests done by Hiamp: http://66.93.220.59/rcnuts/speedtests.htm

glassdoctor

04-05-2004, 12:29 PM

Blue, the C50 is also a fine motor, imo for what you want. The gearing may be a little higher than with a 4200 but overall they should produce similar results. The C50 likes a couple more cells than a 4200. But I still only run 12. I would bet the 4200 can do well on only 10 and maybe outrun a stock E on 8?

Hey Optima, have you ever tried running the 4200 on 6-8 cells just to se what it does?

One cool thing you can do with the Eamxx is gear for racing in 1st gear, and then you can use 2nd if you want an impressive high speed pass. Or you can bump from 12 to 14 cells for an extra kick if you want.

Like Optima said about hte 4200 on 12 cells, you can gear for @30mph in 1st gear. This is plenty for racing most tracks. I have my C50 setup similar... I race it locked in 1st.

BlueBeast8-Port

04-05-2004, 05:47 PM

Hello. I want the best motor to be able to race in first gear at about 30-35 MPH and then pop her into second for some high 40's low 50's for bashing and show off. I will run a lot of cells, 14, 16, or maybe even 18. What would be a good motor to suite the 30-35 in first with decent race run time off my cells and high 40's, low 50's in second off my cells also? Im not sure if the c50 will handle up to 18 or even 16? what about a B50 and which one or which lehner for this? I decided on the 18.97 kwf. jsut waiting for a deal.

glassdoctor

04-06-2004, 01:10 AM

The popular motor of choice right now seems to be the Hacker B50 8L. If you want to run 16+ cells, go with the B50 9L, according to several very happy guys at maxxtraxxusa. :)

Some have achieved speed runs near 50mph on 12 cells and XL3100 and B50 8L

http://forums.maxxtraxxusa.com/showthread.php?t=5820

On @18 cells, it appears you would have just what you want. The Lehner XL3100 should also be good also.

OptimaMan

04-06-2004, 09:19 AM

I have tried 6 cells with the 4200. It's slow. Top speed around 18-20 mph in second gear! I could have geared taller, and maybe gotten 22-24 mph, but it was no fun. On 8 cells it is probably a little faster than stock with 12 cells. I wouldn't run the 4200 with more than 14 cells. Too many RPMS. The motor limit is at 65000.

I plan on racing - I'll probably race only in first gear also - I'm getting about 30 mph in first gear which is plenty for the track I'm going to take it to this summer. That's with 12 cells and the Basic 4200 (not the XL) because it's lighter and uses less amps and still has more than enough power for me.

I pop it into second once in a while just to show off top speed in the low to mid 40's mph.

Bluebeast - you seem like you want a few more mph than I do. You can do that with a few more cells. If you run the 4200, run 14 cells and if you run the 3100 or C50 Maxx, run 18 cells and you'll easily achieve your goals.

BlueBeast8-Port

04-06-2004, 09:44 PM

ok, DRUM ROLL!!!!! i think i figured out what i want to get. I decided the 18.97KWF of course and Hacker B50 8L. I figure on 16-18 cells this set up will run me about 60000 RPMS. What speeds should i get in first and seocnd gears jsut to varify this decision. Also the LehnerXL 3100 seems identical to the B508L. I believe the B50 has more torque tho., Give me the low down between these 2 if you could running off of 14-16-18 cells? trhanks

BlueBeast8-Port

04-06-2004, 09:56 PM

Oh also. i forgot to ask this too. What is the difference between the 18.97KWF and the 18.61 k? They both handle 6-18 cells? Also they both have foward reverse, etc. the 18.61 k is only $225 vs. the 18.97kwf at $350

OptimaMan

04-06-2004, 10:22 PM

Bluebeast - just the amperage rating. Make sure you get the ones with the heatsink "k" though. The Hacker motors are longer - but that doesn't mean it's more powerful. It's the "guts" of the motor that's going to tell you how much torque its going to have. ie: a Hacker B50 8s was actually SLOWER than my Basic 4200!!! And, the Hacker motor is longer! So, it's not just about length - but the diameter and length of the rotors and coils too... and magnetic field. Only way to truly find which is stronger is to get both. When I had my 3 Hacker motors, they weren't as powerful as my Lehner motors... so I sold all my Hacker Motors. Case in point, the Hacker B50 6s is rated at 6150 rpm/volt while the Lehner 1920 5 turn is rated at 6270. The Lehner was WWAAAAYYY faster and more powerful. NOOOOO comparison. I don't know what Lehner does, but at least for the larger motors, they really do have more power. Like I said earlier, a Basic 4200 was WAYY more powerful than the B50 8S too and the 8S is rated at 4613 rpm! You go figure. That's why I'm a Lehner fan. AND, Lehners cost less!

I don't have both those motors, but I truly believe a Basic XL is going to outperform a Hacker L motor anyday kV for kV. I'm not sure if a Basic XL is more powerful than the Hacker XL, but I'm willing to bet money that a Basic XL is more powerful than a Hacker L.

The 3100 is on 18 is going to go 50 easy in second gear. In first gear mid 30's easily w/o even getting too hot. In order for that to happen, you'd have to gear it probably around 17-18 pinion 66 spur though.

BlueBeast8-Port

04-07-2004, 06:40 AM

Hello, ok you conviced me! 3100XL it is! Also would the 18.61K be ok with this set up or would it get way too hot easily. CUz if will be fine thatn i mise well save $125. Other wise if it will get too hot too easily ill go 18.97KWF thanks for all your help guys. My chassis is on its way so i iwll post up some pics onc ei get it mounted

SRacingCells

04-07-2004, 10:46 PM

OptimaMan

04-08-2004, 06:08 PM

Today, I finally got a day off and here's a new post for speeds: Stock everything, except slipper clutch. Geared 14/66 with the 4200. Two way speed measurements to take out wind and or grade. In first gear, my two way measured speed was 30.5 and 30.7 mph. In second gear my two way speed was 41.1 and 42.2 mph. The batteries made a big difference in performance. I used 12 GP3300's that I just got on ebay for 60 bucks.

jcm-maxx

04-08-2004, 10:39 PM

Hey, bluebeast,
Your pms are full!JLYK

glassdoctor

04-08-2004, 10:51 PM

Optima, that's impressive for a small motor like the 4200! Is this gearing "hard" on the motor... is it a setup you could run for a 15 min main without trouble? Any idea of what the runtime would be on 3300s on the track?

metalry101

04-08-2004, 11:18 PM

So...you say the 4200 works fine pushing a 12 lb maxx, so...in the spec chart it says that it only pulls 45 amps. Would the would 18.61 work fine? Obviously the 45 amps is lower than 61, but is that rating at no load? If so, I'd assume that it would draw a whole helluva lot more amperage when trying to push a truck to 40 mph. If so, then I'd need the 18.97, and then I'm thinking that the 4200XL would probably be worth an extra 25 bux since I'd have enough controller to handle it. What do you think? Remember, big heavy truck, and I need gearing flexibility for different size tires (7" Hot Bodies and Imex JumboMaxx vs. Stock size Mulchers and street tires).

BlueBeast8-Port

04-09-2004, 09:28 AM

Hello, i need to know if the 18.61K will work ok for me or not? I will run the 3100XL i believe on 14-16-18 cells! my truck is a racey style truck. will this ESC hold it or will it get too hot too soon? If so ill have to spend the extra $125 for the 18.97KWF which would be worth it than

OptimaMan

04-09-2004, 10:39 AM

For all you guys wondering if an 18.61K would work fine in an emaxx. I believe so - I don't have the 18.61K but I know of several guys here that have it and haven't had any problems with it. I would be careful with gearing though - don't put too large a pinion (especially with a high rpm motor).

4200XL vs. 4200... hmm... I couldn't even answer that either. In my experience, the basic 4200 does just fine - more than enough power for me. Keep in mind, it says 45 amps, but for short bursts, it seems it can handle more than that.

OptimaMan

04-09-2004, 04:29 PM

Some more numbers: 4200 with 12 cells and geared 18/66 (stock gearing). First gear speeds are: 37.8 and 36.9 mph. Second gear speeds are: 44.9 and 43.9 mph.

Now, same motor, dropped 2 pinions to 16/66 gave: 35 and 35.4 mph and second gear got 44.7 and 45.3 mph!!! That's a new record for me on 12 cells! With the 18 pinion, the motor didn't have enough torque to pull it through. I'm not sure if a 17 would go faster - possibly slightly faster... but probably not my much so I'm not going to bother. I'm gonna get the XL 5000 next and try more speed runs with that. With a 15 tooth, I should get past 45 mph. We'll see soon...

SRacingCells

04-09-2004, 04:39 PM

metalry101

04-09-2004, 04:45 PM

Got pics of your Maxx, or even a weight? I'm impressed w/ that kind of performance, but my Maxx is heavier than most, so I'd like to know how yours is equipped. I really need to know that more than anything, because lotza people say their E's haul ass, but when a race modded E weighing 9 lbs hauls ass, that same system isn't gonna do nearly as much for my monsterous E.

OptimaMan

04-09-2004, 04:50 PM

Weird... I just got finished testing with the XL5000 and with 15/66, I could not break 45. I had multiple 44.x mph in second gear and 35-36 in first gear. Perhaps my batteries are not able to give out enough juice to this power hungry motor.

So, for my emaxx, a basic 4200 motor runs faster than a 5000xl due possibly to the inability of my batteries/controller to give more amps. In addition, the motor ran really hot! After a few speed runs, the motor is about 150-160 degrees F! The batteries are at 105 and controller is at 110.

I guess I'm not going to recommend the XL5000 anymore. Anybody interested in an XL5000?

metalry101

04-09-2004, 04:53 PM

How much controller would I need for a motor like that? Would it fit in an RS4MT? How much you want for it?

OptimaMan

04-09-2004, 05:01 PM

My maxx is pretty light. Stock everything except the slipper. Even stock body and tires! 10 pounds and 3 ounces is my running weight.

OptimaMan

04-09-2004, 05:05 PM

Yeah, it should fit into an RS4 MT w/o problems. It's the same size as a 540 motor and same mounting screws. Only problem - you better make sure you have a decent controller. When they say this motor can suck up 100 amps, they're not lying!!! MINIMALLY - I believe a 18.97 or 12.97 or Hacker Master Competition.

Next test today: 3100 with 20/66 ratio. I want to see if the 3100 XL can break 40 mph.

glassdoctor

04-09-2004, 05:06 PM

Wow... I don't think you want that in an RS4MT unless it highly modofied. No offense, but a stock MT can barely handle a typical mod motor. The drivetrain is not very beefy...

I'm sure it would work and it would be very fast if your truck is ready for it, but it's just not the best match, IMO.

Wait.. I take that back... it IS a high-reving motor after all, so it would not be bad on like 6 cells or so in an RS4MT... I bet you could gear it up and fly on 6 cells.

How's that for playing both sides?

metalry101

04-09-2004, 05:14 PM

LOL, not bad on the both sides. It would only be running 6 cells, but I probably can't afford to make the thing BL anyways, my E-Maxx is a 1500 dollar paperweight at the moment, I'd rather have it move than the RS4 MT that's still in the mail. I was kinda thinkin the motor would be a little too big, but ya, don't know. I'll stick w/ the Maxx. So, I'm thinking that the 4200 and the 18.61 would probably work fine for my truck, as long as I geared it right, correct? I was kinda thinking that the 4200XL could be geared to go 50+ since it would most likely have the torque to push taller gearing, would that be true?

OptimaMan

04-09-2004, 05:32 PM

Okay, got the 3100XL motor with 20/66 gearing. First run in second gear: 45.2 mph, second run 43.8 mph. First gear it's doing 32.2 and 31.8 mph. It can still pull wheelies in first or second gear but not as quickly as with the basic 4200.

It's kinda odd that no matter what motor I end up using, if geared appropriate, I seem to hit a "wall" at 45 mph with 12 cells. I can't seem to go beyond 45 with 12 cells. One note is that with the 3100 geared tall, it's the most controllable. The Basic 4200 has more torque with the 14 tooth pinion.

I'm starting to wonder if the "45" mph wall is the limitations of the batteries. Last year, I was running Sanyo 3300's and they were definitely slower than this year's speed results with GP3300's.

Once again, I stick with my recommendations: Insane power and speeds for up to 12-14 cells - get the 4200. I don't think you even need the XL4200. Great for racing and all-round use including 12-18 cells is the XL3100.

You will need GOOD batteries though and controller.

glassdoctor

04-09-2004, 05:39 PM

Metalry101, the MT may be improved since i messed with one. When it first came out, I haelped my cousin get one running and got him a 14T mod to put in it. It was fine, but the skinny little belts will shred pretty easy. And the rest of the truck is built on the "light" side. It was HPI's first non-touring vehicle, I believe. Maybe they have updated the truck in the 5 yrs since I played with one.

metalry101

04-09-2004, 06:12 PM

I don't think the MT has changed much. It was my first r/c truck, 'bout 2.5 years ago. I sold it about a year ago for some reason, and now i just traded for another one. It's not the toughest vehicle in history, but it's not too weak. Don't know if it would hold up to BL power though. The lowest turn I ever strapped in it was a 15, although I'll probably toss a 9 in it this time when I want to run it on pavement, and either a 19 turn or a stocker for off-road, unless I feel like airing the truck out, in which case the 9 will go back in. As for the Maxx, hmm. Gotta get money for the system. I've got 3 pairs of matched 2400's, and another 3 pairs of matched 3000HV's, so batteries shouldn't be an issue.

metalry101

04-09-2004, 10:09 PM

How about the 3600XL instead of the 3100? A little more rpms so I've got more gearing options I'm thinkin. Any reasons no one has mentioned that motor?

BlueBeast8-Port

04-10-2004, 12:39 AM

Hello, i decided i am going to run the 3100XL on 14,16,and 18 cells. I jsut need to know now if the 18.61K will handle the XL3100 on 18 cells or if it will get hot too quick and i will be in some concern of blowing up? If so i will splurge and get the 18.97KWF. WILL THE 18.61K work with this? Also what kinda speeds will i get with the 3100 XL on 18 cells approx in second? thank you very much for all the help. looks like my thread started up a good chat and is acually gettin lengthy!

Promod

04-10-2004, 07:31 AM

If your going to run 14,16 and 18 cells the XL 3100 is not a good choice. The XL 3100 on that many cells will run HOT. Look more towards a 9L or 10L. Those motors are better suited for that number of cells and will be faster.
On 16 cells my 9L is the fastest motor I have. My Schulze 18.61 XL 3100 combo on 16 cells will not even make a full speed run before the esc shuts down due to heat/amp draw.
Thank you,
Promod

GA Maxx

04-10-2004, 07:51 AM

Hi I have found this thread very helpful and I am extremely intrugiedby OptimaMan' results with the basic 4200. I think this is tehset up for me as I want 40mph i nsecond gear, on 12-14 cels.

Have afew Questions tho for Optima Man.

What ESC are you using with the basic 4200?

Now I notice you are getting 45mph with a quite light truck. Mine is a full Supermaxx/Gorilla, only stock parts are the shifting gears and bumper mounts. I only want 40mph in second gear, Do you think with your ESC, The Basic 4200 and 12 matched GP3300's I will get 40mph?

Can the Basic 4200 accept 14 cells?

I have supermaxx 8 spider diffs which are gonna change my gearing however.

I would be greatful if you could answer my questions :)

Thanks in advance

n2rcn4fun

04-10-2004, 09:33 AM

i found this link to be very good on how to set up a brushless system
http://www.logoheli.com/schulze.htm

OptimaMan

04-10-2004, 10:45 AM

Extreme pro 3 - yes, I believe my setup will get you to 40. Maybe a little longer, but will. I'm not sure if 14 cells would blow up your motor. On 12 cells, my motor is revving past 60000 in first gear all the time and with 14, you'll be close to 70,000.

With more aluminum, you'll probably be better off with a motor with more torque like the XL 4200 or XL 3600. With 14 cells and the XL3600, you'll have an awesome bashing machine. Just don't start off with large pinions. I always start with smaller pinions before I go up in pinion size.

n2rcn4fun

04-10-2004, 10:51 AM

optimaman i want a long run time and only need a top speen in first gear of 20mph....i was going with the xl3100 and the 18.97 esc....i want to run 7 or 8 cell packs in parael....do u think that is the right choice to get that done ..i have a very light no alum..emaxx..built for the need for some quick speed ..lmk if u think it will work...ron

OptimaMan

04-10-2004, 12:44 PM

18.97, 3100XL, 13/66 gearing will give you approx 20 mph first gear and approximately 27 mph in second gear. (Heck, that sounds like a stock emaxx on 12 cells!) But you would use 12 cells in series and not in parallel. However, because this motor is so efficient, you would gain a LOT of run time with it. I'd be surprised if you didn't get 15-20 minutes all-out in first gear. With this light setup, and this easy gearing, you don't even need the XL. You can go with a simple Basic 3100 and be more efficient - but I suppose you might want the XL in case you wanted to go faster later.

BJMFH1.01

04-10-2004, 02:50 PM

I have a very fat emaxx, full UE supermaxx. I've been running a Hacker Comp and the Hacker C50 Maxx motor without any problems for a few months now. I only run 12 cells, 45 amp current limiter, and use conservative gearing, 16/72. The 1/8 scale diffs lower that ratio even further. My emaxx tops out around 33 mph in second gear (gps tested). That's pretty good for an all aluminum truck running on only 12 cells.

I use a fan on the controller and it never gets above slightly warm. My GP 3300s don't even get that hot after running, even when I pull them right off the charger and run them. I roast my batteries at a 6 amp charging rate too. The aluminum chassis and battery bars account for some of the heat dissipation though. The motor is the only component that gets hot. It gets pretty toasty but I can still hold it indefinitely after I drain the batteries.

The main problem, I think, people have been having with the Hacker controllers is when they gear too tall, run a heavy maxx with tall gearing, and use the unlimited current setting (even the 60 amp setting is pushing it). Anyone one or combination of those three things seems to be an instant death sentence for the controllers. I've had mine for over a year and used it several different vehicles and it's survived just fine.

And no my throttle response is not like an on/off switch. I think you people got a bad batch of Comps or are really ham-fisted. I've always enjoyed great throttle response from my Comp. I can varying the intensity with ease and precision.

glassdoctor

04-10-2004, 03:21 PM

GA Maxx

04-10-2004, 04:18 PM

Optimaman: Thanks, But sorry if I missed it, but what ESc are using, and what is the cheapest one I can use with this motor reliably. I think I'll run 12 cells

BJMFH1.01

04-10-2004, 05:41 PM

I don't think anyone is bashing the Hacker esc unfairly. That's what I have... the Sport. It's been fine for me on 12 cells and a few runs with 14 old 2000 cells. User "error" is a problem I'm sure. Oh, and they do have good throttle response, IMO also. I race mine and it runs fine.. throttle and brakes. you just need a good radio that can adjust things.

The "bashing" of the Hacker escs is because there have been a bunch of cases where the controllers just go up in smoke for no apparent reason... like 10 seconds into a run with a proper setup that's been used many times before without issue. Too many expereinced bl guys have smoked them like this, and they don't know why. So it's a pattern and not an isolated incident, so there must be something to it. Maybe too many guys have run too hot of a motor.. but a lot of them ran the C50 which Hacker recomends...

You're preaching to the choir dude. I'm on my second Comp; the first one quit on me for no reason. It did the famous breakdown consisting of the startup beep, power is still supplied to the servos and receiver, but power isn't being supplied to the motor. They tried to blame it on poor soldering. I got stuck with bill on that one. I'm still quite pissed about that. Somewhere on the original brushless thread, I went on a verbal rampage over the incident.

I realize that Hacker has sold a huge quantity of faulty controllers. That's why they're being redesigned now. However, alot of these complaints I've read on internet message boards sound somewhat questionable to say the least. More often than not, it sounds like some noob who got in way over his head. Maybe I just got lucky and got a good one the second time around. I am anxious to see what Hacker's new line of controllers is capable of. I'm hoping for Comp with 18 cell capability, 150 amps continous, and a price range around 400.

n2rcn4fun

04-10-2004, 06:16 PM

Craps

04-11-2004, 01:02 PM

thanks optimaman.......the tracks we race on are small very technical and the 21 tmaxx only 18 mph so i belive with a good brushless system i can take them..since there are no emaxx's running just tmaxx i would stick it right up therer tail pepe..lol...thanks u have said the same think chris fine told me...

Hingepin needs to chime in here since I lent him a couple of my 7.4 volt Li-Pos that he ran for an entire 20 minute race with warm up time before the race with stock Titan brushed motors.

I recommend using a pair of the new 10C discharge rated 11.1 volt TP Li-Pos that would give you a total of 22.2 volts and around 8000 mahs of capacity. I am waiting on a pair of these for 1/8th buggy.

BlueBeast8-Port

04-11-2004, 03:21 PM

Craps

04-11-2004, 05:30 PM

hello. ok i need to no. Will my e maxx with the 3100 XL on a 18.97KWF be fine? will it not get hot? this is on 18 cells? What about the 3100Xl on 18 cells with the 18.61K will they both work or get too hot and be in jeopardy of too hot. Please help.

I am running the 18.97KWF on my 1/8th buggy with a Hacker B50 10XL and have not had a problem with the ESC or motor thermalling. Now Batteries is another story about heat and I can not tell you about nickel batteries since I am running Li-Pos on longer runs than the nickel batteries can't even come close to.

If you have ESC/motor thermalling problems, you may have to keep dropping pinion size until it gives you the runtime you need out of it.

Good Luck!

centexhomeboy

04-11-2004, 06:31 PM

I don't know why nobody's recommended for you to try a lehner 1930/5 motor with the shultz 97 controller and your GP3300's 18pak? Take it from me though, be careful how much you spend on your new setup because believe it or not those GP3300 paks pack some serious amps and will smoke any controller out there on the market if youre not very careful and know when enough is enough. Take a lesson from me, I've burnt up several 120amp rated bk controllers in learning how to setup properly. It hurts at $350 a pop! I figure must of run me 50 bucks a wheelie for a little while there. The manuf. is not gonna cover it under warranty if they figure you ran 300 or 400 amps through their board and I'm here to tell you those GP3300 matched 9 paks in series can do it. But don't worry they will give you a 50 dollar discount towards your new board you'll be needin. Also, I found out the hard way that your radio/recvr setup better be quality and not some tmaxx p.o.s. if you value your unit. You'll need to have control of your proportional throttle as I learned. I've only had several runs that returned alive and I've never seen anything like what I had with my 1930/5 lehner w/bk 18120 controller and 18 gp3300 matched cells w/66 spur and 14 pinion. I'm like some of the others in thinking it's no use going faster after a certian point. I smashed a brand new emaxx about 9 ft. up broadside the wall at the track and busted my shocks, didn't think to open up my controller shrink wrap and shock oil had gotten into the board and poof ! my GP3300's never let me down for a good BBQ. Good luck and start easy.

BlueBeast8-Port

04-12-2004, 08:38 AM

hey thanks for all the help ill have to look up that motor. Like i was saying, i want a set up for low 50's high 40's in second and mid 30's in first. everyones been reccomending the 3100XL for higher cell counts. Will the 18.97 and 18.61 handle this? I just need to know if i will be safe or what other set up should go with if its not safe? I do not by any means have $350 extras bucks to blow if my controller goes.

OptimaMan

04-12-2004, 09:15 AM

Bluebeast: I couldn't tell you if an 18.61K would work or not. In first gear, I feel that you would definitely be safe and stay below the 60 amp range except for brief spikes. However, in second gear and with 18 cells, I feel you might thermal the controller. Now, Schuzle controllers seem to have good thermal protection - mine shuts off momentarily and turns back on if it gets too hot. Doesn't burn up like Hackers or Novaks... but then again, I have yet to burn up my Hacker or Novaks. Maybe I've just been very lucky so far...

With 18 cells, most brushless motors will get hot - I recommend getting one of those aluminum heatsinks with the fins. It seems to help my motors stay considerably cooler. Associated had one for the TC3 and it costs about 11 bucks or so.

When you start with this motor and battery setup, start with gearing of 12-14 tooth pinions first. You'll be under the amperage of the controllers. Then, gear up if you need/want more speed.

OptimaMan

04-12-2004, 09:20 AM

Centexhomeboyd: You ran 18 cells with the 1930 5 turn motor??? You are friggin nuts! First off, that motor is pretty hot at over 4300 rpm/volt. At light load you're at 90,000 rpm!!!! You're asking to blow a magnet/bearing real easy.

That motor is awesome for 12-14 cells, but I wouldn't go past that number of cells. Motor gets too hot and could easily bust.

BTW guys, stay tuned: I'll be testing my emaxx with the 1930 5 turn motor for comparison with the 3100 XL and Basic 4200 and 5000XL.

SRacingCells

04-12-2004, 06:27 PM

Would this speed control work in the e-maxx with a 4200 basic motor? The speed control is the one at the top of the page. I know its a boat speedo but wouldnt it still work and plus its waterproff!

http://finedesignrc.com/speedcontrols.asp#PHOENIX-80M

Also how would the Schulze 18.61K speed control work with the 4200 basic on 12 or 14 cells?
Thanks

OptimaMan

04-12-2004, 07:13 PM

The 18.61k I'm sure would work well with 12 or 14 cells (as long as the pinion is not too big).

As for the Castle Creations phoenix 80 marine - I would wait for their Mamba 80 which has programming for cars coming out this fall.

glassdoctor

04-12-2004, 07:44 PM

I'm planning to call Castle to ask about their 80marine controller. I can't see any reason it won't work. It has "programmable" brakes so I assume that it will work fine in cars. No reverse, but that's ok for racing anyway.

$179 for a 80/120 amp controller is a good deal, and Castle is a great company. I have yet to hear anything bad about them or their products...

Oh... it's also good up to 20 cells w/out bec. If Castle gives the thumbs up, I think I might get one for my 1/8 buggy and get some 22.2V lipos for it.

I'm sure 80 amps is more than enough on 22.2 volts? 1000 watts at 22.2 volts is only 45 amps....

OptimaMan

04-12-2004, 08:45 PM

Their car controller - when it comes out will probably have a street price even below that! Their mamba 25 seems to have a street price of only 80 bucks!!!! Imagine that, a nice brushless sensorless controller for less than a hundred and a high amp version for probably less than 180! Can't wait...

BTW, I just did some more tests with my emaxx. Basic XL 5000 on 13/66 ratio gives a top speed of 45.0 mph in second and 30.0 in first gear. This thing totally screams and has so much insane torque... unbelievable. BUT... I just trashed the front diff. Now I only have rear wheel drive!!!! The diff must be totally stripped or something.

Until next time...

BlueBeast8-Port

04-13-2004, 10:07 AM

Hello, i decided to go with the Lehner 3100XL with the Schulze 18.97KWF ESC running 14, 16, and 18 cells! I will be safe and not get too hot with this set up on 18 right? K, does anyone have a 18.97KWF for sale or no where i can get one cheap? Also about the BEC, will i be ok running a receiver pack due to i have no lcue what a BEC is?My maxx is ready for the hurt now so let me know, im buying soon!

OptimaMan

04-13-2004, 10:38 AM

Yeah, a 5 cell receiver pack will work just fine in place of the Battery Eliminator Circuit. A BEC is something you can just splice into the power input of the speed control and it regulates the voltage to 5 or 6 volts to power your receiver and servos only.

Bluebeast: start with only 14 cells first. My recommended gearing is to start with perhaps 16-18 tooth pinion on a 3100 XL. (I've safely used up to a 20 tooth and it goes about 43-44 with a 20 tooth on 12 cells - but it gets hot) When you go to 16 cells, drop a pinion, when going to 18 cells, drop down to like another pinion. So at 18 cells, my recommendation is 14-16 tooth (even though it could handle an 18 and would be insanely fast).

An 18KWF will set you back 3 1/2 C bills... I've never seen one on ebay. I guess everybody that has one likes it. Myself included. Finedesign had a special pricing over the winter for something like 305 which included S&H.

SRacingCells

04-13-2004, 05:44 PM

I called Castle Creations and they said that their Phoenix 80 marine controller would not work because of no brakes and no reverse and it will also not start up well.

glassdoctor

04-13-2004, 10:17 PM

Yep, I called them today too... found out the same thing. The start up is not good for cars.

Seems there is some misinformation about he controller on finedesign's site. That's where it says it has programable brakes...

Same for the other Castle escs... they will have start-up issues. And the airplane ones don't work with pistol radios either.

SRacingCells

04-14-2004, 12:50 PM

I am going to buy a b50 8s with a hacker master sport controller for $180 shipped. Does it sound like a good deal? And how much run time and speed can I get with it. Can I run 12 cells? Thanks everyone :)

OptimaMan

04-14-2004, 09:16 PM

If it's all working, that's an awesome deal. Where'd you get such a good deal? The B508S is pretty hot motor with 12 cells. As long as you stick to 12-14 teeth pinion, you should be alright. Get one of those motor heatsinks though - that'll help keep the temperature lower.

SRacingCells

04-14-2004, 11:28 PM

I'll post where I am getting it from as soon as I recieve it. But as soon as I saw this deal I said I gotta have it 4 that price. I couldn't believe how cheap it was. The only problem with it is that the motor has a facial mark on it but doesnt affect performance or anything he said. I also got a picture and it looks great!

BlueBeast8-Port

04-17-2004, 11:17 AM

Hello, sorry guys but another motor question. Will the C50 maxx motor hold up to 18 cells on the 18.97KWF? It seems to have about the same KV as the 3100 XL so it should? Will this be more powerful than the 3100XL or the same or what? Can the 18.61K work on 18 cells with C50 or 3100XL or will it be fried crispy? Will it work OK on 14 and 16 cells? thank you. If any of you have AOL IM please IM me at Xtrememaxx9 to talk please. thank you.

tjdadj

04-18-2004, 11:32 AM

Here's some more Lehner info.. I have a 17.5 lb. Emaxx that is powered with a Lehner 3600XL and Warrior 9918/3 controller. It is currently geared 15/66 and I can't keep the frontend on the ground in either gear. It has so much torque that a pair of stock Traxxas diffs only last for about 5 runs before they're trashed.
[I'm currently rebuilding the diffs w/ Kippster racing aluminum diff cups]
I run (4) 3000 NiMh battery packs wired in series/parallel. (14.4v @ 6A.). Run times are 15-20 mins. even when I'm running it flatout. I drive it in a 1 acre field that is perfect for full out running.
I don't have any way to clock it as far as top speed goes, but it's too fast to control well.
As far as run temps go, the motor has reached 130f and controller has reached 110f., but that was after running 2 consecutive runs.
At this point the only downside has been the cost of strengthening the drive train. I already have MIP CVD's all around, and hopefully the new diff cups should solve all the breakage problems.
I would recommend that anyone considering a high performance brushless consider the additional cost of beefing up the drive train, or you'll be working on your 'Maxx more than you'll be driving it.
ps. Someone asked about the difference between the Lehner Basic and Basic XL. The Basic can output about 700 watts of power, and the Basic XL can output about 1300 watts. (almost 1 hp. as I understand it)
Hope this helps.

GA Maxx

04-19-2004, 06:45 PM

any thoughts on the plettenberg big maxximum 1800 watt?

Chris LaPanse

04-19-2004, 08:16 PM

For all of you who are trashing diffs, are you shearing the heads off the drive cup screws? I have done that 4 times, and I am still running the Titans geared 19:65 with RRP slipper

Chase023

04-22-2004, 02:56 AM

1 Horsepower = 746 Watts

BlueBeast8-Port

04-27-2004, 06:48 AM

Hello, ok guys, all my moneys in and im buying. I found a Schulze 32.40K? Is this any good and whatwill it work with ? thanks

BlueBeast8-Port

05-02-2004, 11:17 AM

Hello, How would a new Nemisis 8L work with a 18.61K on 14 cells? What would it do and would it be ok? Would the Hacker 8L be way better or C50 for that fact? On 14 cells or possibly 16 with a 18.61K. Please reply with some info and letsget this thread goin again!

glassdoctor

05-02-2004, 11:15 PM

First, the Nemesis 8L and Hacker B50 8L are very similar.. no the hackers are not "way better".

Second, if you want 14 or 16 cells, I would recomend considering a 9L or 10L. That's just me...

Last, I don't know what to say about the 18.61, except that I understand it should be fine as long as you gear correctly etc, but that the 18.97 is obviously a better choice. I don't have either though, just info form others....

I'm going to check on the GM one this week... specs and price is right between those two controllers. I want to find out how good their warranty and service are....

BlueBeast8-Port

05-05-2004, 05:02 PM

Hello, well i picked up a C50 motor. I will be running 14 cells. Any suggestions on a good ESC for this with nothing extrordinary price wise. What speeds should i get with this on 14 cells? They are matched 1.16+'s. 3300 of course. thanks.

TeamMishap

09-25-2004, 02:49 AM

Well, I took the plunge.

I just ordered a Lehner 4200XL from FineDesignRC. I'll be retiring my B50-12S to my Evader.

I figure I'll gain close to 1000rpm/v and get a much better can that won't pop the ends off.

Thanks for the thread. It helped me make up my mind.

mac0326

09-25-2004, 11:48 AM

Personally, I think the 4200xl is too hot for the e-maxx, unless you plan on running less cells. It will thermal an 18.61 controller very quickly. The 12s is a better choice for the e-maxx. i like the 3100xl or 2800xl as far as lehners go, and the 8L and 9L for the Feigao or hacker motors.

TeamMishap

09-25-2004, 04:02 PM

I'll only be running it on 12 cells. And I'll knock my amp limiter way down for starters. I went with the 4200 to get a little more rpm. My B50-12S only puts out 3033rpm/v. If I toast a controller, I'll let you know. Nothing more satisfying than a good "told ya so." :)

mac0326

09-26-2004, 09:28 AM

I don't wish a smoked controller on anyone! I think the 12s will be a little boring in the evader, and the 4200xl will run hot in the maxx. If you want more rpm, add cells or add a tooth to the pinion gear. The 4200 will be a blast in the e-maxx, but it needs a pretty serious controller. Check the motor temps, too. A burnt motor isn't any more fun than a burnt speed controller(although it is less expensive).

TeamMishap

09-26-2004, 02:29 PM

I've been switching the 12 between my Maxx and Evader for about a year. It is pretty ridiculous. It turns the rear wheels into pizza cutters...and the contents of the gearbox into shredded teeth, but it is a blast. Only problem being in Europe now is that Tower deliveries take forever and I can't find any local German hobby shops.

I'll gear super low on my first 4200XL runs. I probably won't even be able to handle it then, let alone worry about gearing up.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Homeskillet

09-26-2004, 04:31 PM

What are a couple of the better/best motors you can run with the speed controller that it comes with? The Novak HVX 14.4 volt one....

rckid11

09-26-2004, 09:00 PM

How would a lehner 2800xl with a shulze 61k controller be on 12 gp 3300 cells?

AlexV2024

09-26-2004, 10:39 PM

Homeskillet- what??

the novak is a sensored type esc and so it can only run sensored motors. the novak escs are only rated for their own motors so its just best to leave the novak systems with each other. they wont be that spectacular, probably only a little better then the stock emaxx motors. if you want to go as fast as possable in an emaxx read this thread and if you just want to go a little faster then stock and run longer and reliably get the novak systems.

~Alex

Homeskillet

09-27-2004, 04:03 PM

Ok....It seems the Novak EVX ESC would be able to handle all kinds of motors. It is supposed to be a step up from the Novak Super Rooster..

I just figured you could plop juicy motors in there no prob...

Homeskillet

AlexV2024

09-27-2004, 05:06 PM

no not really. the EVX is a brushed motor and no brushed escs are compatable with brushless motors. and the other way around.

the EVX can handall 23t 550's on 12 and 14 cells, and down to 19t motors on 12 cells. but they arn't very reliable and dont have very good responce. even a hint of moisture can fry them. my first evx fried after sitting in a garage for a month, its quite stupid. even though trinity made 21, 19t and 17t motors i dont reccomend any of them as they are very very weak motors. all they do is melt them selves and the evx esc. its a pretty weak esc as far as compareing it to the super rooster. if the SR could handall 12 cells it would be the best esc out now, and novak is making a very flexable esc now, check out their home page. now thats a flexable esc.

also trinity is releseing something like 12 and 14 550's, a very bad idea with the EVX. it can only handall one of those motors, and they still might not be very good, but they do look better then their old motors.

also the problem with most motors that are better then the titans is they usually need a tonn of matnence. and that can get quite annoying...

~Alex

mac0326

09-27-2004, 09:49 PM

How would a lehner 2800xl with a shulze 61k controller be on 12 gp 3300 cells?

That set-up runs quite well, actually.

OptimaMan

09-27-2004, 11:34 PM

All those motors will work well with an emaxx. I've ran an XL 3100, 4200, XL 5000, 5300, and 1920 5 turn on my emaxx with 12 cells.

A 1920 5 turn, no matter what gearing, is too hot a motor for this truck. You'll either fry the motor, the controller, or batteries (btw, after 3 minutes, the heat shrink off the batteries started to crack off!). With a 12 tooth pinion, I was getting mid 40's mph. The poor motor was over the rev limit!

5300 is too hot a motor for the emaxx. With a 12 tooth pinion, I was getting over 40 mph also - but the motor was running very hot. Probably like over 200 degrees F. Just felt like the motor was over spooling to get to those speeds.

XL5000 is too hot a motor for the emaxx. With a 12 tooth pinion, I was getting over 40 mph also, but once again, the motor was too hot. This is not a very efficient motor. The Basic 5300 is better than this motor for this vehicle. This motor is only good for massive amp drawing 6-12 cells drag racing, boat racing - things where you only want to run for a minute or two at the most.

The 4200 was an awesome motor for this truck. With 12-14 tooth pinion, it was a great setup for bashing. Kept it in first gear most of the time so I would only get about 30 mph but when I kicked it into 2nd gear, I would get about 40 mph. Running this motor with 12 3300's non-stop mostly in first gear got the motor kinda hot, but the batteries and controller were hardly working. If I had to race a lightweight emaxx, this would be my motor of choice. Plus, I was getting 10 minute run times easily. Why did I use this motor instead of the XL4200? Because under first gear, the emaxx doesn't really pull that many amps - maybe 20-30 amps on average and this motor is much more efficient in this range than the XL4200. If I could do it all over again, I'd run 14.8 volts LiPoly with the 4200 and lighter weight tires. That would be one heck of a killer racing emaxx!!!

XL3100. Probably my best overall motor for bashing - but I wouldn't use this for racing. Not quite as powerful as the 4200. I had to gear a bit higher to get my speeds - typically 16-18 teeth pinion. Still got high 20's in first gear and almost 40 in second gear. This setup will wheelie instantly - but didn't quite have the "snap" of the 4200 geared appropriately. If you use MORE than 12 cells (up to 18 cells), this would be my motor of choice though. I believe 50 mph is easily within reach with 18 cells with this motor.

These are my opinions. You don't have to agree with me or listen to me. :) BTW, you're probably wondering why I don't have any Hacker Motors in here. That's cuz I've never ran my Hacker motors in the emaxx. I've had several Hacker motors, but none of them really fit the bill for this truck. I've had the c40 6, c40 12, b50 6s, b50 8s. What I really want to do is try the C50 maxx motor with 22.2 volt LiPoly - that would be simply awesome.