please help w/electric boat glitching

[terra out]

Hello, I am having persistent glitching problems with my GP Marine
Dagger electric boat. The boat originally came with a micro switch
on/off speed control. I am using a JR python 2 channel AM pistol radio.
I upgraded the speed control to a tekin rebel ESC. I have tried all of
the suggestions I could find on the various forums but my glitching
problems remain. I moved the electronics around, wrapped the receiver
in foil, tried a different antenna location, twisted the motor lead
wires, tried a different motor, used a separate battery pack to supply
power for the receiver, and a different radio, but no luck. I sent the
boat & radio to a service center where I bought the radio. They
sent a new JR python radio without looking at the boat electronic
set up. The new radio they sent had an ESC with it so I installed the
new radio and ESC. They also suggested I try toyo rings. So I wrapped
the new ESC and servo wires coming off of the receiver around the toyo
rings but I am still having glitching problems. I most recently
upgraded the motor to one with pre-installed capacitors and bearings but
that didn't help either.

There seams to be something about using a car ESC in a boat that is
susceptible to glitching problems. I noticed the Tower Hobbies Turbo
Vee II uses a 2 channel AM pistol radio and an ESC. This is the type of
set up I am trying to make work in my boat. Is there something special
about the ESC or radio/receiver in the Turbo Vee II which prevents
glitching problems? I really don't want to just throw more money at
this boat not really knowing where my problem is. I also don't want to
give up on this model and have it sitting around unusable and taking up
space. I would really appreciate any suggestions for help with this problem. Thanks

[Ron Olson]

You might be getting radio interference from the stuffing tube and driveshaft. Is it well greased?

[Chris LaPanse]

Does your ESC have a BEC? I was having the same problems when I first installed a RC-Hydros Penguin (the one with BEC) into my boat. After extensive testing, the only way I fixed it was with an FM radio. Also, is it close to your reciever. The closer your power wires and ESC are to your reciever, the more prone it is to interference. Also, I don't think it is just car ESC's. The RC-Hydros is a boat ESC (duh) and I still had glitching. If nothing else works, you might consider getting a cheap FM radio. ;)

[terra out]

You might be getting radio interference from the stuffing tube and driveshaft. Is it well greased?

Thanks, Ron I also thought that might be the problem. I have cleaned the drive shaft a couple of times and put fresh vaseline on it. I also tried the boat on the bench with the drive shaft disconnected and it still glitched.

I am wondering though if wrapping the receiver with alluminum foil is effective because alluminum is a good conductor of electricity, right? Is there another material that is electrically inert that would be more effective?
Any suggestions? Thanks for your help

[terra out]

Does your ESC have a BEC? I was having the same problems when I first installed a RC-Hydros Penguin (the one with BEC) into my boat. After extensive testing, the only way I fixed it was with an FM radio. Also, is it close to your reciever. The closer your power wires and ESC are to your reciever, the more prone it is to interference. Also, I don't think it is just car ESC's. The RC-Hydros is a boat ESC (duh) and I still had glitching. If nothing else works, you might consider getting a cheap FM radio. ;)

Thanks Chris, Yea I am thinking the FM radio is a last resort. But for about the same money as an FM radio I could buy a whole new boat w/radio (the Tower Hobbies Turbo Vee II). But that boat is AM and works, so there must be something specific about this boat's set up that prevents glitching. Anyone happen to know what this trick might be? Thanks

[Ron Olson]

Hi-Tec does make a low Dollar FM radio if you want to go that route.
The foil around the reciever isn't the greatest idea but Tekin used to make an FM reciever that had a foil type of stuff on the case to reduce interference.
This problem has got me bugged. I used to run electric R/C trucks and buggies years ago. I went to FM because we ran on an indoor dirt track and the flourescent lights over the drivers stand used to mess with the radios.
Try running the boat with the driveshaft removed, check the brushes for arcing and go through the boat one step at a time to eliminate items one-by-one. Rip everything out of the boat if you have to. Try something besides Vaseline, that melts at low temperature. Try some axle grease or what ever other heavy lube that you have.

[Chris LaPanse]

But that boat is AM and works, so there must be something specific about this boat's set up that prevents glitching.
Yes, that's what I thought too. However, those boats are designed to work with that, and, unfortunately, I don't know how they do it. I also tried everything from disabling BEC to wrapping it in aluminum foil. I even stuffed the ESC into the tip of my boat for a while to get it as far as possible from the reciever and motors, and it still had about a 6" range before glitching. Besides, there are other advantages to an FM radio other than just low interference. There are more possible channels, there is much more selection, and you get a much longer range. Also, with some, you get computer programmability and rechargeable batteries. I eventually went with the Agressor CRX (the full synthesized version), but if you are on a tight budget, the Agressor FM would be a good radio. If you want a computer system, the new Agressor SRX and the Airtronics MX-3 are good choices. However, if you have to fix it w/out going to FM, i don't know what you can try besides what you already have. Good luck ;)

[Ron Olson]

You didn't happen to put the crystals from the old radio system into the new one by chance? Bad crystals will do some funny things.
What exactly are your glitches? Servo chatter or the ESC doing weird things? No radio range? Is it doing while you try to run the motor or when you first turn the radio on? How's the battery pack? You could have some shorting going on in there.
Some of these problems can drive you over the edge........ :p

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi Guys
One thing could be casuing this. The motor can be arcing so badly that no radio will work very well. As a experiment try disconnecting the motor and see if the rudder acts normally at some distance. If so, hook up some other motor and give it a try again. I run boats using car escs all the time and use am radios . They are working good for me. n.h.schmidt

[terra out]

Thanks everyone for your help. The glitching is like an intermittant studder (hesitating) in the trottle control. When it gets bad enough it does twitch the steering also. I don't trust the range with it acting like this. I have tried another set crystals from one of my other models.

When I replaced the motor I had to change the mounting set up so I could still use the alluminum finned heat sink. I just had a thought, would it be possible for the alluminum heat sink to actually amplify the effects of arching? When I first tried the new motor I did notice a little drive train vibration with the drive shaft hooked up, then it went away and I thought I had fixed the problem. I will upgrade the drive shaft grease to see if that helps.

I noticed some marine ESC's use an "opti-coupling" to reduce radio interference. Does anyone know about this configuration and whether this may be effective?

[Chris LaPanse]

By Opti-coupling, do you mean Opto-Isolated? That means that the power wires are on a seperate circuit from the radio wires (i think) and therefore do not cause as much interference. All of the Opto-Isolated ESC's do not have a BEC, however, so I avoided them. Also, car ESC's don't tend to have this either. All of the RC-Hydros ESC's are Opto-Isolated, except (of course) the one I got. The glitching that you describe sounds just like what I had, except not as bad. It might be coming from the same source. The motor(s) would make sense as that source because mine is running 2 550's on 12 cells, so the interference would be worse in mine. I dont think the heat sink is doing anything though I had to unplug the batteries on mine because at any range, as soon as I touched the throttle, it was completely out of control. As far as your interference goes, I think your best bet is to try the drive train grease. Other than that (or go FM) I don't know how you could solve this.

I'm stumped :confused:

[Ron Olson]

Something else. The motor might be drawing so much power on take-off that it is pulling power from the reciever and servo giving you the glitches. Some of the car racers are using tiny reciever packs along with their BEC to cure that problem.
You ought to throw this question out over at www.rumrunnerracing.com in their Forum and see if they have any answers.

[scorpien boats]

put another compacitor on the motor, on my wave max it said it had pre installed compacitors and it gliched a little, i installed an exturnal one, and now its fine.... hope this helps, other wise im stumped....

[terra out]

put another compacitor on the motor, on my wave max it said it had pre installed compacitors and it gliched a little, i installed an exturnal one, and now its fine.... hope this helps, other wise im stumped....

I replaced the stock motor with a trinty speed gems pro 19t single with bearings and preinstalled capacitors. I don't know a lot about capacitors but it would be simple and inexpensive enough to Install extra capactors. What type and or size capacitors are recommended. I installed the three capacitors that came with the tekin rebel speed control on the original motor. If all I need to do is try additional capacitors it would be wonderful. Thanks

[Ron Olson]

If you haven't gotten one yet, pick up the latest issue of RCBM. Our own site Moderator, Rick Eyrich has an article on page 46 that might help you out. Rick, you timed it just right! :D

[elecracr]

Which plugs do you use, if you are using tamiya try deans, then, make sure the plugs on your esc going to receiver have no corrosion on them. Also, what kind of batteries are you running, make sure they dont glitch in anything else.

[DLM]

The esc has 3 colored wires that go to the rx . Unplug the center wire and tape it if you have a bec and hook rx to a 9 volt battery which will power rx and servo. Your motor should have 3 noise suppression units and one ( 1 ) schioty diode with gray or white stripe on one end with stripe soldered to pos. end. Question; are you using 12 ga. wire and are the wires covered all the way withg no bare uncovered areas. Check your other wiring which maybe half broken or wires that have been pulled and stretched and partially broken. Connections at rx maybe not seated!