Turbo Vee II

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Hello everyone, I'm new to R/C boats. I was thinking about getting a tower hobbies Turbo Vee II. The link to it is:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCRM2**&P=ML
I have a 40-50 feet pond in my backyard, about 8-12 feet deep. I just want something to get me started, and it seems to have everything included. It's also only 90 bucks. Would this be a good deal, or is it too cheap to bother with? Also, will it go fast enough? I know, it's alotof questions, I probably sound stupid, but hey...
I've seen a few other boats, and they are all 100-200 dollars plus a radio with servos, an electronic speed control, and basically everything else expensive.
I wouldn't say I have a tight budget, but I definitely don't want to spend 300-400 dollars on my first boat!
I do have experience with R/C cars, but not with boats.
Any info. would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Ron Olson]

It must be a good place to start at, last year at the NAMBA Michigan Cup race, they had a class for these boats only. You have to start somewhere in boats so this one ought to give you some experience. Remember, you only get what you pay for. Your other R/C experience will help especially if you want to build it up down the road or after 20 minutes. :)

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Oh, and BTW, I'm willing to make any modifications to the motor if it's needed. Will a 540 motor be fast enough (by fast enough I mean average speed of most electric boats)? Also, should I get 6 or 7 cell batteries?

[Ron Olson]

Boats are never fast enough! :D When I ran electrics, I spent a lot of money beefing up my boats. I had just gotten out of racing trucks so I had plenty of motors and ESC's laying around so usually they were modded before they hit the water the first time.
Ask around over at the electric forum, they should be able to give you more tips than I could.

[Chris LaPanse]

With limited space, you might want to try one of these too:
http://www.rcmodels.com/rc-hbz-3310.html
they are decently fast (15mph) and extremely maneuverable

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Well, what the hey, I decided to go ahead and buy one. I bought the turbo vee II, 3 7-cell NiCd packs, and 2 spare props. Well, you guys were right, it isn't fast enough! Do you think I could modify the motor? I was thinking along the lines of the $20 kyosho motors... maybe a 16x2 Endoplasma? Would that help? Also, my total run life seems to be around 8-10 minutes... is that normal? Most of my R/C cars go comfortably for a half-hour on 6 cell NiCd's... is there something wrong with the ESC, or the battery shutoff motor?
And by the by, thanks for all of your help. I was debating on the Zig Zag Racer, but it runs on NiHM batteries, and I just thought since I have a quick charger for my cars, I'd go with NiCd for boats since I had the option.

[Chris LaPanse]

For added runtime, get NiMH. Be aware that a more powerful motor will decrease your runtime even more. In general, however, boats use more power to get the same speed. Look at the Traxxas Blast (15mph) and the traxxas street sport (30mph). Same motor, comparable runtime, but the car goes twice as fast. Also, for an upgraded motor, try a 19t spec motor (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEXL2&P=0)
It's more expensive, but should give you more torque and longer life and run time than that other motor. However, make sure your speed control can handle the motor before you just put it in. Also, another way to get more speed is to switch the prop for one with more pitch. Good ones can be found at www.offshoreelectrics.com. Good luck upgrading your boat :D

too fast is an impossibility :p

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Can NiMH really just fit into any boat? I thought it would only take NiCd's... Yeah, I thought that my runtime would go down, but my LHS told me that 5-6 minutes is average in terms of runtime for electric boats. That set me at ease. My friend just bought a 16x2 Endoplams for his Kyosho Blue Streak, so if the motor speed is satisfactory, I may put one in mine. If not, then I may just increase the prop size... would that help any?

[Ron Olson]

The runtime that you are getting is pretty normal. Expect less with hop-ups. Ni-MH's are fine to use.
You can get a better motor than a Kyosho, try a Trinity or Reedy for instance. See what your ESC will take before buying one that it can't handle.
Most props that come with the majority of boats are terrible. For a stock motor, try an Octura X432 or X435. These will work on a mod motor also. Too much prop can overheat a motor and ESC also go be careful not to overdo it. I'll see if I can dig up some more info for you on this boat.

[Chris LaPanse]

Can NiMH really just fit into any boat? I thought it would only take NiCd's... Yeah, I thought that my runtime would go down, but my LHS told me that 5-6 minutes is average in terms of runtime for electric boats. That set me at ease. My friend just bought a 16x2 Endoplams for his Kyosho Blue Streak, so if the motor speed is satisfactory, I may put one in mine. If not, then I may just increase the prop size... would that help any?
Yes, NiMH is a different battery chemistry, but it is the same size. Any boat that takes NiCd takes NiMH. In some cases, just switching your battery to NiMH can almost double your runtime. I still would reccomend that Epic (trinity) 19t spec motor from my last post. If you increase the prop size, bring the boat in like every minute and feel the motor. A temp gun also works well. If it gets excessively hot, STOP. A more reliable way of increasing speed is increasing the prop pitch. Try an Octura X600 series in the same diameter as stock, and it should increase speed. Not as much load on the motors (as with a bigger prop), but the boat will still go faster. If you get that motor that I reccomended, or any high turn (17-19t) modified, you might want to increase prop size, because they have more torque than stock. Still, BE CAREFUL, and monitor the temperature constantly, or you might ruin that nice new motor that you just had gotten. (I did that once :o )

[MikDee]

Hey Turbovee, Ron & Chris have given you good info, I agree with them. I would go with the 19t Mod motor Chris mentioned, & once you check for heat, if Ok, maybe advance the timing to 24 degrees, and check heat again. You will probably need a water cooling coil also, This is probably as much mod motor as you can go with your setup without burning it out, It should be plenty fast!,,, I even doubt your speed control can handle this?, if need be you can use a microswitch controlled by a 2nd servo, or a Duatrax streak ESC ( it is cheap, & very low draw, "efficient" and will handle down to a 12t motor) but forward only. Keep prop diameter as small as you can (similar to stock diameter) to keep heat down with that submerged drive.

[bugfanatic]

A microswitch can be bought cheap from McMaster Carr @$2.23 each. Part number = 7779K61 just go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ & type 7779K61 into the search window.

[Chris LaPanse]

Yes, although get an ESC if you can. They will give you longer runtime and (this is especially important in a small pond) you can run it at a less-than-full speed. RC-Hydros makes some that would work well (www.rc-hydros.com) or you can go with that Duratrax one MikDee suggested. I still think that you can increase prop size a little over stock if you get the 19t, because it will have MUCH more torque than stock. Still, watch the temps and, if possible, get water cooling. This can drastically reduce motor heat, decrease cooldown time between runs, and increase brush life. Also, if you go with the RC-Hydros, you will have to run water cooling anyway. Those ESC's are water cooled. Have fun with your boat and post some pics if you can :D

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Whoops... hehe... I already ordered the 16t motor. Oh well, I guess I will always have a spare then.

How about this ESC... http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAXT8&P=ML

The boat comes with reverse, and I can scrounge up some money (I knew modding costed money from the start) to get it. If I'm going to modify, I may as well go all the way!

Is the ESC any good? Anyone know if it's good quality? thanks for all of your input.

[Chris LaPanse]

It looks OK, but car ESC's are notorious for overheating in boats due to lack of airflow. I would still reccomend the RC-Hydros ones because they are water cooled. Also, they can handle 6-12 cells, rather than 6-7. If you really need reverse, then try the Astroflight 208 with reverse (http://www.finedesignrc.com/speedcontrols.asp) However, the RC-hydros can handle more than the Astroflight, so you are giving up current capability to get reverse.

[Ron Olson]

Go without the reverse in an ESC if you can. Boats with a flat transom like to "ship green", push water up over the transom when backing up so if you still want it, be careful that you don't go too fast.

[OHIOBH]

I Too Have A Turbo Vee Ii,currently Iam Running A Trinity 19 Turn Chameleon ,good Luck Trying To Find A Better Prop,just For The Idea ,i Was Going To Try My Nitro Hammer Prop, It Has The Same Dia And Pitch As The Turbo Vee. Bummer! I Have Yet Found A Prop Thats Better Than The The Stock One. My Turbo Vee Is A Missle With A 2400 6 Cell But Watch For Heat Build Up, It Does Get Hot. But Hey Its Fast! Ps Iam Using The Stock Esc That Come With The Boat.

[Chris LaPanse]

three things:
1: Turbo Vee prop is not very good, neither is Nitro Hammer. Try a balanced and sharpened Octura or Prather Berillium Copper or Stainless Steel prop.
2: the Chamelion is a slightly less powerful motor in the same class as the Epic motor that I reccomended
3: What's with all the caps? ;)


ps: are you running water cooling or is it heating up because it is still only air cooled?

[BoatDoc]

if your prop is the same as a nitro hammer...i'm sorry! once all my stuff gets here (friggin' mail is moving sloooooooooow) i'll have an x427 to test on my hammer. but since your's is the same, the 427 may help. only time will tell...seeing as how the postal service is oh so slow, and it will be at least a week til i can try out my new prop.

[Ron Olson]

If you haven't been on eBay, there is a Tekin 432M ESC with a Chamelion 19T motor in there up for bid. The ESC is watercoolable.

[OHIOBH]

My Typing Is Not The Best So I Use All Caps, Its Faster For Me To Type That Way.haha. Iam Still Using The Water Cooling That Came With The Stock Motor. It Works Ok I Was Just Saying It Gets A Little Warm To Hot Some Times, Depends On How Hard You Run The Boat. Otherwise This Boat Makes A Great Retriever Boat When My Hammer Runs Out Of Fuel.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

I was thinking of getting a water cool jacket to replace my coils. Would it help? Or are they the same? I can't find any at tower hobbies, so I'll check my LHS.
For the ESC, http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD523&P=7 The Duratrax Streak looks good. It can handle down to 12 turns, so if I get my Endoplasma 16t on it, I won'tbe running the bare minimum like the Intellispeed. I guess I'l have to go without reverse. Oh well. It wasn't going fast anyway with the turbo vee II. Any info on it?

[elecracr]

Its best not to have reverse, because when you get to higher speeds, you wont swamp. I would suggest getting a rc-hydros or ziya esc b/c car ones will die if in contact with water. Also, water jackets work better because the water comes in direct contact with the can instead of the coil then the can. Brush cooling is effiecient also.

[BoatDoc]

cooling jackets, where the water touches the can, may not always be a good idea. remember, some motors don't have sealed cases, they have vents in them...if you have a vented can, then you definitely want to get a coil!!!! just thought i'd mention that. i thought about a jacket for a bit til i remembered that my motor has a vented case, i almost wasted a few dollars that i can not afford to waste!

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Wait, you mean cooling jackets let the water directly touch the motor? I did not know that... then again, there's probably alot I don't know... How do the jackets get the water to touch the motor directly? The motor I have does have vents, so I guess that makes water jackers out of the question. Can I get better cooling system than the one that comes with the turbo vee II (metal cooling coils)?

[Chris LaPanse]

That depends...
Post a pic of a stock cooling system and I'll tell ya. (cant find one online)
Some water cooling coils are better than others. Take the Carribean Cruiser, for example. It's water cooling is a joke: 1 coil of tiny pipe that loosely fits around 1 end of the motor. On the other hand, if it is a thick coil that wraps many times around most of the motor, then it is probably OK.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

The coil wraps 6 times around the motor, I would like to post some pics but no digital camera...

[Chris LaPanse]

If you can't post pics, then describe it well. First, how thick are the coils? Second, how tightly do they fit around the motor? Third, how much water goes through while running at top speed? Finally, how much of the motor does it cover? Overall, it sounds like a decent cooling system, but we need more info to be sure.

[Ron Olson]

OK, here's an old trick for making a water cooling coil for an electric motor. Wrap some 1/8" aluminum tubing around a "D" cell battery. Take it off and it will give you a tight fitting coil around a 550 type of motor. Be careful to not kink the tubing. Total cost, about $1.00 .

[TurboVeeIIMod]

They're about 1/8' thick, wrapped tightly around helf of the motor. They fit pretty close together, but you can jostle them with your fingernail. It covers about half of the motor, and half is covered by the mount. With the water cooling, the motor doesn't get too hot, it gets warm. You can definitely feel it get cold if you run it through the water for ~30 seconds, then bring it in.

OK, so here's what I was thinking. If this doesn't work, please let me know

-14t Quad motor (Speed Secret)
-Duratrax Streak ESC

Will this work? The ESC handles down to 12 turns, so it shouldn't overheat, right?
Also, quick question: I wanted to get a quad wind motor so I could focus on getting more top end speed, as acceleration isn't my #1 priority. However, my friend says that getting a quad will drain runtime faster... is this correct? Thanksfor all your feedback.

[Ron Olson]

That Tower 14 quad isn't a bad motor for the price. I had one a long time ago in a Losi truck and it took a lot of gear without cooking the motor.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Did the motor drain fast? Was it because of the quad? Sorry to bombard you with all of these questions.

[Ron Olson]

That's OK. It was lasting through 4 minute heats with no trouble back when we were running 1700 mah packs. I kept gearing it up because I had plenty of battery left at the end of the heats, almost up to ROAR stock motor gears. I wasn't disappointed with it for what it cost me at the time.

[Maltrio]

I run a speed secret and streak in my Kyosho Ultima type R truck with a 1900mah pack and it does drain alittle faster than it did with the stock motor, but it hasn't been an inconvience to me yet. Runtimes went down from about 11-12 minutes to 7-8 minutes. Hope this helps.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

OK, thank you, this did help. I'm going to go with it all then, the streak and the speed secret. Just for my info though, would a quad wind drain faster than a lower wind setting? Do winds even affect runtime in the first place?

[Maltrio]

The amount of winds changes the acceleration curve. More winds equals more power at mid-top end speeds. Less winds equals more acceleration and power in low-end speeds. This is pretty basic and makes sense when you think about it because the more winds a motor has, the more wires it has and the harder it is to be put into motion. But as this rotating mass starts spinning fast, momentum keeps it going and spins it faster and faster yielding not to good acceleration but good top end speed. Low winds is just the opposite, because of the low number of wires, it is very easy to set into motion so acceleration is good but it does not have the momentum that the higher wind motors do so it lacks the top end speed. Higher wind motors have higher top end speed because they have more wires which allows more amps to travel through the wire. I don't actually think that windings affect runtime, they just adjust the acceleration curve. More turns are what drain your battery faster. Feel free to correct me if you find something wrong, I'm alittle rusty on my R/C motor knowledge.

[Chris LaPanse]

That cooling coil is fine. Also, with that motor and ESC, you should get maybe 20-25 mph. Also, Maltrio, I'm pretty sure that all of that info is correct, but my motor knowledge is also a little rusty.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

OK guys, gonna order the ESC and the motor tonight. It should come in 3 days using tower hobbies regular shipping. Wish me luck and I hope this works!

[elecracr]

It will probobly scream once its on plane, but it may take a few seconds to get there being it is a quad and has less torque
good luck

[Pagemaster]

cooling jackets, where the water touches the can, may not always be a good idea. remember, some motors don't have sealed cases, they have vents in them...if you have a vented can, then you definitely want to get a coil!!!! just thought i'd mention that. i thought about a jacket for a bit til i remembered that my motor has a vented case, i almost wasted a few dollars that i can not afford to waste!

The Gundert Water Jackets we sell will work with or without vent holes in the can. All the kits come with a thin piece of shrink wrap to cover the can and the vents. Just make sure to have the holes where the motor mounts to the bracket clear for air flow.

[BoatDoc]

i put that up there because i've seen a few jackets that allow water to actually touch the motor. i almost bought one because i wasn't paying attention to the description...i get too anxious sometimes when it comes to buying my parts!

[TurboVeeIIMod]

One quick question: I went to ACE hardware, and they don't carry 1/8" aluminum tubing, but they carry copper. Would copper work for a cooling system? Thanks in advance.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

OK, here's an old trick for making a water cooling coil for an electric motor. Wrap some 1/8" aluminum tubing around a "D" cell battery. Take it off and it will give you a tight fitting coil around a 550 type of motor. Be careful to not kink the tubing. Total cost, about $1.00 .

That was what the question was based off of.

[Hydro Junkie]

Aluminum has several advantages over copper:
1. It's a better conductor of heat
2. Its usually softer and easier to bend
3. It's normally lighter in weight

Both materials will corrode and conduct electricity
Anybody have any other info to add to this?

[alphaslider]

Hey TurboVeeIIMod, how did the mods turn out? Could the ESC handle the motor with all the heat or did you have some shut downs? How did you widen the cooling coils to make the motor fit? I am asking on behalf of a friend who wants to do the same changes to his Turbo Vee but had some problems with fitting a different motor in the cooling coils. He is also worried about the heat build up. Any replay would be appreciated.

The mods he plans are to change the ESC to a Novak Super Rooster, and install a 12 turn 2 wind Reedy Krypton motor.

Thanks again

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Ugh, I'm kind of mad at the moment... Tower backordered the ESC, so I have a 14t motor and no ESC to handle it...

Oh Well. I'll give you some info as soon as I get it though. I might be able to leech off of my friend and use his digital videocam, so I might get some pics.
Until then, all I can do is wait.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

To alphaslider,

I was anticipating some problems with the cooling system, which was why I wanted to buy some tubing and make my own system. If you would like to try that, please give me some feedback... I'll try it if I can find any tubing anywhere that's aluminum
Thanks.

[alphaslider]

I thought my friend would run into the same problems with heat. Thats why I suggested the super rooster for a esc since it has no motor limit and could take more heat. But he was hoping the stock water cooling system that came with the boat would work fine but different motors dont fit in the stock cooling rings. He did manage to get a 20 turn Stinger in there but everything else with a open end bell does not fit. I am suppose to help him Monday and try to get the up grades in his boat since it is my day off. I will let you know if we make any progress with installing the componets. But I doubt we can solve the heat problem.
Making your own cooling coils is good but I have no idea how. All of the other posts give better ideas than what I can come up with. Using aluminum tubing is good since it is more malleable than copper.
I will let you know how Monday goes. Good luck to you.

[Pagemaster]

There is some info here on how to make coils
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/articlesmain.htm

[DLM]

1/8" aluminuum at hobby shop only, can cooling. Now hood cooling go www.fastelectrics.com-- Gary Findley has a picture of hood cooling. Look around for this picture. Copper can only be coiled by annealing ( heating with torch ) and success rate is ( 0 ).

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Well, I just got the package from tower hobbies today, and I took the stock cooling coil off of the boat, and put it on the can. I got a picture of it uploaded.

Is it any good? Do you think it will work? Alphaslider, this may help your friend if this works...

[DLM]

Ok, push the coils together and try and make it solid like next to each other
. Ok, go to www.fastelectrics.com and find where Gary Findlay made a hood cooler for the brushes. Question, did you change timing on the secret motor. If the coils doesn't work right, go to hobby shop and get 1/8' aluminuum pipe for a $1.05 or so and tape one end and fill with sugar and then tape that end. Get hold of a " D " size battery and wrap it around the battery till all is wrapped, close knit. I don't know what size boat you have exactly but the prop i would get is a 1.25 which is a 1.8 pitch and is 1.25" in dia. from Octura. Reason is the Secret isn't really a powerhouse but a lot of rpm. The pitch will force water straight back in a smaller cone and greater speed will occur. A guy could use a 432 and next step up is a 632 and next is a 1.25 or the exact # would be 8125. it would be 1/2mm less in dia. but the pitch will more than pickup the 1/2mm less dia.. If you don't want a 1.25 , get a 632 prop. When i first started , i couldn't wrap till i get a foot long 2x4 and cut one end down and rounded to a " D " battery and stuck other end in a vise and then it took 30 seconds to make a coil.

[alphaslider]

Thats great Turbo!! Sorry but we did not get around to working on the boat Monday. But one thing I would suggest is to take the label off the motor so the coil is in direct contact with the coils for better cooling. Labels will trap heat so any heat we can bleed off without the label is good. Another project came up for my friend so the boat will have to wait for a few days till we get this damn other project out of the way. But again, great job with the motor. If you did not receive that esc from Tower Hobbies yet, let me know because if this project we are working on goes well I can get you a esc with reverse and can handle down to a 12 turn motor for a nice price.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Well, got the ESC and motor together, and finally got around to putting it together. Disaster happened...

For one, the ESC had ABS braking, which I'm told wouldn't work on the boat. Second, it wouldn't set up. Friend told me it was broken.

Any help? Suggestions? Comments? I really don't know what to do because I just wasted 60 bucks. Do you think I should call Tower Hobbies?
Thanks for any input in advance.

[DLM]

Call tower on toll free 800 , i think they do. From my experience, anything electrical in nature is considered tough. On rumrunnerracing, they have a sc-8 , 6-14 cells, waterproof and watercooled for $70.00 and i consider it a steal.Sorry to hear about your situation, i lost a whole boat worth total of 400.00, 2 weeks ago>

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Well, I can turn off the ABS braking, but when I sent an email to Duratrax, they gave me a rather useless letter back telling me to try it within 2 seconds of turning on the transmitter. It probably won't work, but I'll give it a whack

Wish me luck,

Turbo

[Ron Olson]

Astro-Flight has a boat ESC kind of what the Duratrax sounds like. Their setup was kinda Bassackwards from what we're normally used to. Theirs has a safety delay built into it to prevent accidental start-ups. It's been a while but I think that on theirs you had to plug the battery pack in first as they didn't have an on-off switch then you had to turn on the TX. Check your owners manual again to see if theirs is weird too.
Do you have a link on Tower to the ESC?

[DLM]

Ron Olson and Turbo Vee II; I'm wondering if you would get car switch which has off and on and get a Du-Bro which encases the car switch and has a push -pull portion. You drill a hole in a place that is accessible. plug in your servo and speed control and get your power from a 9-volt battery. Take the 2 wire r+b and go to rx and the other 2 r+b wires solder to a connection that fits on top of 9 volt and can be gotten at Radio-Schack. This way no accidental things like prop spinning , servo working, till you push-or pull the switch. My wallet says Phypton equip except servo which are 3003, they take less juice to turn arm. Ok, honestly go to a vendor site and get a boat esc and be done with it.

[ahab2]

Ihave made Very eficient coils with 3/16 inch alluminum tube I used Solder wire (the 1/8 inch thick type) to prevent kinking. I unraveled enough to fit to the end then i gust start wraping and puling out the solder wire before it got stuk ( abouth 3/4 around the motor) warp it pul itout abit then warp some mor then pul the wire so it dont get suk If it does get stuk the n be carful while you unbend the aliinum tubing to let the wire free Buy two tubes one for practice. scince it more volume and more space for water to run it cools very gooooooooooooood. Buton got stuk :rolleyes: Youl Need difrent silicone tubng too And a pickup. But It works very well. Hope tis helps you guys. I didnot use sugar case it riped the tubing as I bent it :eek:

[DLM]

You used too big a aluminuum tubing. 1/8" is the size to use or i should say , recommended, with tight coils. I disagree with tight coils on cans with vents , so warm air off the arm can escape from motor. I figure tight coils will box in the warm air and motor will heat up faster and defeat the idea of cooling coils. Just my 2 cents or 3!! ok, here's one other item; when you put your motor in mount, put a 1/16" spacer between motor and mount so air can be drawn into motor from stem side ( coupler ). Paul Pachmeyer's idea! I have discontinued using hood coolers cause if the brush coolers got to warm, the solder got warm and broke off and stopped the motor. That meant the water pickup wasn't at a good angle tp pickup water. I put a 1" square fan blowing directly at endbell. The juice came from pos. and neg. post with minature Dean connectors so i could use one fan in other boats too. The combo of hood and fan cooling doesn't work cause hood coolers blocked the air flow. These things i mentioned are my ideas and what i have experienced and is not meant to be written in concrete!!

[TurboVeeIIMod]

The prop I was thinking of getting is:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000557942&I=LXE471&P=K

If anyone has a different suggestion, please post a link from tower hobbies, so I can buy it, thanks.

The link to the Streak is:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD523&P=ML

[MikDee]

Looks good, if yor shaft is 1/8", and I don't see a groove for a drive dog?,,,

[Chris LaPanse]

Go to www.offshoreelectrics.com, and click on props. There are far better props there than that plastic piece of junk listed above. The pre balanced ones give you the best performance. Figure out how big your stock one is (measuring tape) and then get the one closest in size to stock. That way, you won't have to waste money on more than one prop.

[Pagemaster]

Can you measure the shaft diameter and tell us if the end is threaded?
If its 4mm and threaded I would try a 33mm k series prop with 46mm total pitch. Its a bit bigger diameter than the stock 32mm prop it comes with. You can also experiment with a higher pitch 33mm S series prop which has a total pitch of 53mm.

Also add brush coolers to the brush hoods or wire tabs. Picture of Brush Coolers (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/images/finishbrush.JPG) Most of the heat on the motor will come from here in the first place.




Steven Vaccaro
www.OffshoreElectrics.com

[TurboVeeIIMod]

No thanks, I don't want to buy from off shore electrics. No offense, but I would rather go with Tower Hobbies because I get free shipping.

Are any other good props available on tower hobbies that can fit my shaft? I will try to get a measurement back to you.

[Pagemaster]

No offense taken. But please let us in on the free shipping deal. How do we get free shipping on small parts? I just bought some building materials and didn't get it.

[scorpien boats]

the free shipping you have to have an order of $75 or more

[Pagemaster]

Turbovee looking over this thread it seems you like to shop Towerhobbies. Take a look at their products, About 3 catalog pages of boats and 100 on cars and planes. That tells me they dont bother much with boats. I don't care where you shop but you'll save money and time if you shop a boat site/shop. Fullers, Climate boat works or Rum Runner Hobbies are places to start. Ya, your not going to get free shipping at any of those places, but add up the costs of minor purchasing mistakes your better off paying for the service.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

I'm into RC Cars as well as Boats, so I get free shipping on not only the $75 deal, but I joined the super saver club membership, and I can get free shipping on $150, and I'm about to buy a Evader Pro (~$270), so I'll just ween in a prop, instead of making an order and paying more than the item in shipping.

However, I'm going to take a look at the sites you mentioned. I am very paranoid, and am scared of getting ripped off (it happened many, many times, just look at the duratrax streak). However, the sites have been getting alot of praise, so I'll check it out.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

A quick question on the streak ESC: When they say "for motors down to 12 turns" would quad make a difference? Would the amount of winds affect the limit? Is the limit for single wind motors only?

[alphaslider]

The limit for a esc is for the turns only. The amount of winds does not matter for the esc. Sorry about the streak Turbo. Try ebay for esc's if you want a good deal for a esc that can handle more.

[Chris LaPanse]

Yep, I get free shipping too. I was not trying to advertise offshore electrics, i have just had good luck with them in the past. Anywhere you can find octura or Graupner CF props shold work ok. You could probably even find or special order some at your LHS. Still, I would avoid plastic props if possible.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Just a quick question for boat ESC's: How many turns can each one handle? It doesn't say on any of the pages. Unless there are boat motors, but I don't see any around ever.

Can anyone shine some light on this? Thanks.

[alphaslider]

Boat esc are just like car esc, but just built to a different standard I hope. But they are still limited by how much heat they can handle from a motor. Check this out:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJM29&P=7
It is rated for 18 turns or higher.
I have found 1 boat esc on Ebay that could handle down to 14 turns I think but was priced at $79. :mad:
About the motors, ther are a few boat motors like the ones in the Vilian:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEWL2**&P=0
Here are some boat motors I found:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXW904&P=%2
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXW905&P=%2
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGBG8&P=%2
I hope this helps.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

I got the speed control set up! I followed the directions as closely as possible, didn't wait at all, whizzed through it to prevent errors, and it set up!

I'm running the boat tomorrow afternoon. Any last tips before I try it? the motor seemed stable when I tried it, but I'm just hoping to get any last tips. Anything would help, but my primary problems are:

-Will the power of a 14t quad motor cause my drive/prop shaft to spin too fast and result in a fire due to friction?

-Will the motor/ESC overheat?

-Will the boat catch fire in the pond?

-Will the motor explode?

Any other tips would help, but those are my main worries.

Thanks in advance,

-Turbo

[TurboVeeIIMod]

One more thing: Will the prop cauvitate (sp?)

[ahab2]

afcorse not the worst that could hapen is if the esc got so hot it caches fire but dont wory just chek for heat evry couole of minuets. If themotor is a 14 turn then the boat will go prety fast.
what prop are you going to use?

[TurboVeeIIMod]

I'm just using the stock prop, but I'm thinking of upgrading...

[TurboVeeIIMod]

The boat "expo" went great! The boat really ripped! Granted, I have to stop it every 2 minutes or so to check for heat, but it goes great! (BTW the ESC gets HOT!) I'm thinking of installing a computer fan into the boat, and hook it up to a 9 volt battery. Tell me what you think

-Turbo

[Pagemaster]

Heat is wasted energy. So if your looking for lots of performance that's a good place to start fixing. A fan is going to help take more energy and hide the energy loss that's being wasted in the first place. Is the speed control you have water cooled?

[TurboVeeIIMod]

No, the Streak's not water cooled. It has no cooling actually. The computer fan is going to have its own 9V battery, so it won't take up any more energy.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

One more thing: I think my prop shaft is 2mm threaded, I don't think it's 4mm. I'm not too good with measuring though, so I'll try to get some pics...

[Hydro Junkie]

If it were my boat, I would install water cooling to at least the ESC. You will have more efficient cooling, as well as less weight. This means, however, replacing the ESC with one that is liquid cooled.

[Chris LaPanse]

If it is 2mm, then you can get a 4mm threaded adapter. I know you don't want to leave Tower, but the only place I know of that sells those is Offshore Electrics. Still, if you're lucky, you might find them somewhere else.

[Pagemaster]

I haven't seen that shaft to measure but I would think that 2mm is way to small for that size boat. I bet its 3mm or larger. The zig zag racer is 2mm and the shaft is tiny!
Steven Vaccaro
www.OffshoreElectrics.com

[alphaslider]

Hey Turbo, you might be able to use this on the streak esc:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000410788&I=LXGBH5&P=K

The plastic heat sink would attach to the cooling fins on the streak and just route the water pick up to the plastic heat sink then to the cooling coils for the motor. Hope this helps.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Thanks alphaslider, I think I'll try the cooling system. Heck, I'll only be wasting 5 bucks if it doesn't work...

One question though: How would it mount? The ESC is different from that of the streak. Also, you're supposed t omount it with screws, but where would they go on the Streak? Tower says you need to follow the instruction that came with the Villian, but I never bought one. Any ideas? I think I might as well go for it though...

[alphaslider]

I would assume the plastic heat sinks fins would mesh with cooling fins of the esc for attachment. The plastic water lines will have to be secured tightly in the electronics box. I would recomend drilling 2 holes on each side of the elec. box for running the tube through. I wish I could be of more help.

[Chris LaPanse]

If this helps on how it works, here is a picture of the water cooling on the EVX ESC in the Villain.

[Chris Moon]

I successfully used the Traxxas ESC cooler on a Hitec HFX Speed Control. It works great. On most speed controls, the spacing of the transistors is pretty much the same, so it should fit some way or another

[scorpien boats]

here is what i did to cool my esc.... it cost me a total of $2

[DLM]

Nice job on water cooling you're esc. Another item , is go to LRP or hobby-talk which have a 1" square fan which blows a LOT of air and wires are hooked directly to motor leads for 7.2 system. Just clue a piece of wood high enough and use a piece of velcro on wood and fan and blow directly at what you want cooled like brushes and coil cool the can. just use red and black wires and tuck yellow wire back a little and tape, do not cut yellow wire in case you may need it later.

[Chris Moon]

I got one for ya. Go to http://www.alliedelec.com, and find a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" fan. The trick is, the fan is 5 volts, so you can splice on a connector and plug it directly into the RX. That way, when the boat is on, the fan is on. This particular fan flows 7cfm/minute, which is alot. Thats what I did on a 1/10 touring car.

[DLM]

Email you gave me asked too many questions and life history which are not necessary i believe to look around or browse. Change subject; you people who cool these car esc aren't waterproof and the price you paid for them had better come up with something to seal the esc's. Another subject; you say to splice into cable which also enters rx which means the rx battery has to be 9-volt. Now if 9-volt starts to wearout and weakens, the signal will not be received from tx and you're boat will go astray. Man i have been there and it took on water and was lucky to retrieve boat with fishing pole. I use 9-volt for rx and with a 1 1/2" square fan , i would use a 9-volt battery separate. You're fan is 5 volt and will use only 5 volts, so burnout is not a problem. you should put cooling coil on can and use fan on brushes. The pos. post get the hotest of the 2 leads. Hood cooling isn't effective with watercooling as a fan is. A lot of heat comes from driving you're boat well after batteries start to dump and that is the REAL heat. From what i have read, you people are innovated with great ideas but those esc's better get waterproofed in some way. I hope this helps just one person and that means my typing hasn't gone on screen for nothing!

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't been replying.

I think I'm gonna go with the water cooling ESC brushes, but I may as well throw a fan into it as well (BTW, I ran the computer fan on a test run on my computer, it blows alot of air), the fan is said to run on 4 volts on the package, and I can rig it to a 9V battery, just to be sure to keep things cool (especially my battery, that thing gets hot).

As for waterproofing the ESC, DLM, the watercooling system is meant to run on what looks to be a car ESC, or at least a boat ESC that's not waterproofed.

[DLM]

What mah is you're battery? Ok, next you may be running too long after battery starts to dump and then the heat really sets in. Ok next , your prop maybe to large or your motor cannot unwind enough which will draw more juice and battery cooks too. If you go to Climate models, i think i read where they have fans also. The computer fan if i recall blows out where a small fan like hobby-talk blows back like a cone and doesn't spread out. I used my El Lobo II yesterday and it kept the motor can and hood cool besides running watercooling to both. You know if you are running a 6 cell. solder directly to motor leads but when boat batteries start to dump, head for shore. I built up a platform of balsa with velcro on top and a piece on bottom of fan and have it 1" from hood. i also have a piece of color coded wire thru one hole to keep fan upright and steady. Keep you're eyes open for a watercooled esc tho. Money well spent. Ed hughey of hughey boats has a speed control which is run by a servo. water doesn't bother Hughey speed control but water bothers servo!

[TurboVeeIIMod]

DLM, I'm currently using 7-cell 1500 sports, but I'm gonna pick up some 2400 6 cells. The prop on the boat is stock, and I think that's where the problem lies. I think aon a high RPM mootor like the speed secret, it's overheating the motor. I'm no expert, but I've just inferred this. Also, the bigest problem so far is that my boat seems to be leaking. When I put it in the bathtub, it didn't leak at all, no matter which was I turned it and pushed it. But out on the pond, it starts taking in tons of water. I'm not sure what the problem is, any advice? Thanks for all your help.

[Chris LaPanse]

It might be coming in over the transom every time you slow down. Try installing an autobailer. You can get them from OE, Warehouse hobbies, and, I think I saw them on tower once. They won't stop the water from coming in, but they will let it out every time the boat gets up on plane.

[DLM]

Check your dog drive that has a flat face and could force water up your stuffing tube. Just round the front of dog drive especially if dog drive is bigger thank strut. Don't laugh but air pressure on a vaccuum sealed boat will draw water in and just put a pin hole on top and see if that helps. This will equalize the pressures.. You could put silicon near stuffing tube where cable comes out and let dry with cable in place. Just put a dab of oil around cable so silicon won't adhere.

[Chris LaPanse]

I still say, though, no matter where it is coming in, an autobailer will let it out. Also, if you get an autobailer, make sure you install it the right way. My friend put one on his villain backwards accidentally, and it sank in about a minute. Still, they are useful in any boat (when installed correctly) :D

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Hey guys, sorry for the very late update.

I was waiting on a new shipment of Duratrax Evader Pro BX's before I made my next order, but apperantly they haven't come even yet, so I backordered it (as much as I hate to do so), and completed my order.

Due to arrive on the 3rd or 4th, are my parts, which include a 2400 6 cell battery (set of 2), some sponge tape, and the ESC watercooling system.

I leeched what little excess sponge tape my friend had and applied it to the top of my boat, where the hatch goes on. I only had enough to cover the back side, but already the sponge tape is soaked after a ride (usually I just absorb the water off of the sponge with a little paper towel) and only a few drops of water get in... hopefully when my package arrives I can cover the whole top and insulate it. Of course, I'm still going to buy an auto bailer (hopefully soon) for emergencies.
I took a look at offshore electric's website and saw their waterproofing for an ESC. Do you think that will work for my Streak? The article is titled "How to waterproof an ESC" But it really about recievers. Do you think this will work?

[Micho523]

To tell you the truth, i am about to do this myself, after having already lost one Rx to water. I see no reason why it shouldnt work, and i think it looks cool too :)

[TurboVeeIIMod]

My package came today. Not good news.

The sponge tape was applied to the hull. The water cooling on the ESC worked fine- meshed right in. My batteries were fully charged (7 cell 1500 and 6 cell 2400). I turn on the ESC... nothing happened. Both the ESC and the radio turned on. The ESC turned on, no problem. But nothing happened. No throttle. No rudder. The ESC had ceased functionality completely.

I'm trying not to panic right now. Does anyone have any suggestions? Any help would be appreciated greatly.

[Chris LaPanse]

Are you sure it's the ESC? I had a reciever go out, and i was SURE it was the ESC until it worked with my truck's reciever.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Well, I ran a test run with my old stock ESC, and still nothing. So obviously it was the radio. I checked the reciever, nothing wrong, then I realized something stupid- my batteries in the transmitter ran out. Stupid mistake; I gota get some rechargables...

Ran the boat. Water cooling on the ESC works like a charm, barely any water whatsoever got in.

One last problem though, and it's a small one- I think if I fix this then my boat won't need any more tuning.

My battery seems to run really hot. It's hot to the touch, and that's the only hot thing in my boat, mainly because it's the only one with no cooling. Does anyone have a link for any cooling for the battery? I thought I might make a custom cooling coil for the boat, but seeing as one water line is already being used to cool the ESC and motor, I think tby the time it gets through the battery, the water will be warm, and even warmer by the time it reaches the motor. Any suggestions?

[Hydro Junkie]

I would put in a "Y" fitting. If you do, you would send cold water to the ESC and motor with one line and to the battery pack with the other. The only modification you would need to do to the boat is to install a second water dump in the hull.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Even if not water cooling, I read on their precaution label that it needs planty of airflow. So do you think I could install a 9v fan in the boat running on a 9v battery? The other fan didn't work because it's 14 volts. The main trend among fans is 12 volts. Is there an external battery I can put in to power it?

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Wow... I just woke this thread back up.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCSZ1&P=7
As you can kinda see here, the drive nut is specially shaped to only accept Turbo Vee II stock props. I was going to try out my plastic prop just sitting there, and I noticed a big increase in diameter (probably would've increased speed by alot), but when I tried to fit the prop on, there are little grooves that the prop is meant to go into. A regular circular prop wouldn't fit on. I'm not too sure if there's a way to remedy this, but if there isn't, let this be a warning to purchasers of the Turbo vee II. It's an excellent boat, but just don't expect to change your prop.

[Chris LaPanse]

Is it just an ordinary drive dog? I can't see it in the pic too well, so is it like this:

[TurboVeeIIMod]

It doesn't look like a normal drive dog, and it's not removable. The grooves look a bit different. Not much I can really say about it, but I have no idea how to get that prop on.

[Chris LaPanse]

Can you post a pic?

[TurboVeeIIMod]

Umm, I don't have any way to connect to the computer with my camera.. .no scanner or webcam. Sorry.

If it was a drive dog, how would it fit? Maybe I can use a similar technique or something?

[TurboVeeIIMod]

After working with the "prop nut" for awhile, I couldn't see any way to fit the prop on. Do you think that there is any way to make the prop fit? I don't think trimming the prop will work very well...

[Chris LaPanse]

Which plastic prop did you have sitting around? A standard drive dog should have 2 square pieces that engage with the prop.

[TurboVeeIIMod]

I guess it could pass for a drive dog. I have my doubts, but it might work. The plastic prop is:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXE471

Just a quick note... this prop seems to be the biggest I can go. The prop comes out of a hole leading into the boat. If it gets too large it will cut into the bottom of the boat. So if there's a prop similar to this, I could get it. But I do want to get this one prop to fit.

[Chris LaPanse]

I don't know then. You're stuck with the stock prop, unless you can find a way to fit a standard 1/8" drive dog on there.