World's Fastest RC Car Challenge

[CENthasizer]

That... really works? How big is it? Its a dream come true its beautiful... sorry guys i'm having an emotional moment here... its like a mini me or something, i love it!

Where can i buy one?

later

[Mike Keeney]

Here's a little clip of one running.

Blown V8 Video (http://www.SilvestriEnterprises.com/Blown V8.mpg)

This one is running on gas and has pistons that are only 1" in diameter. The blower is real and functional. It has a couple of Walbro carbs. If I can figure out how to do it, I'm going to try to use a couple of throttle body injectors.

These engines are more of a novelty than the real thing. A very expensive novelty that takes a huge amount of time to build. But so far the people I know haven't done anything commercial with it. A group of us are working together to come up with a motor we can sell in a kit form for a reasonable price, but I would like to carry it one step further and build upscale rc cars. It wouldn't hurt to hold the world speed record for starters. :rolleyes: I think there is a market for high powered rc cars such as dragsters, funny cars, or monster trucks. That's my hope anyway.

Mike

[crank throw wei]

If I can figure out how to do it, I'm going to try to use a couple of throttle body injectors.

Base it in the Bosch K-jet system.It's mechanical,with few electrical parts,and very simple,relatively speaking.Downsizing the injectors would be the most difficult part,I would think.

[Mike Keeney]

Thank you for the tip. I went to their site and found an EFI setup for small 1/2/4 cyl. engines. If this could be adapted to my engine it would be perfect. I don't know what the flow needs will be yet so I can't pick a fuel system yet. So much to learn, so little time.

Mike

[rainmantoo]

When the BADRC gang held their Land Speed Record Run in San Jose a few years back the Race America timing system was duplicated to insure "accurate" times. If the two speeds recorded for each pass were within one percent or so, the run was "offical". Most were OK as their system is very accurate (even at speeds of 100mph posted by low profile 1/10th scale dragsters).

The IEDA also hosted a LSR run at their Summer Nationals event in Minnesota about the same time. Race America timing was utilized there as well and I don't remember any problems encountered with timing. This was the site of the Collins/ Saik 112mph pass. In addition, 5 or 6 other 1/10th scale drag race cars also exceeded the 100mph mark. All were electric, as at that time the IEDA didn't have Nitro classes.

Both these races were run at 300' from a dead stop with the speed traps right at the finish line. Shutdown was adequate in Minnesota, but not nearly so in San Jose. The need for an adequate distance to stop in will soon be apparent.........I hope Irwindale has a bunch!

The IEDA now runs Nitro classes at it's races and the Extreme class is very competitive between the electrics and nitro cars. I will race my old electric car, but cannot wait to see how the Nitro guys perform as they have made tremendous advancements in the past few years. See you there......

Jim Schauer

[modellor]

Rockets aren't allowed.

I think it's a great idea - let's push the boundaries!

Shame it's 1/3 of the way around the world from here to reach the contest...

Electric v Nitro... Hmmmm...

Pure power, it would have to be Nitro. Most likely a weight advantage too.

Reliability/simplicity would be in the electric stable - brushless and Lipo would be very fast, that's for sure.

A healthy development budget could give much more than 125mph in my opinion - 5 horsepower in something weighing 3 kilograms isn't far-fetched... I can't do the maths, but that's A LOT of speed if you keep the drag down...

Dont let the big pond stop you sosidge. A couple of us are going from the UK already

[modellor]

I would halfway have to agree, you might as well call it the CA closed course record. You'll set the world record but the odds are high it won't be the fastest car in the world(Of course the cars won't exist because you eliminated 80% of the nation before it got started). You should have thought it through and did the east west thing at least.



It will still sell lots of mags though, I'm sure. ;)

Some people are already forgetting it is a World Wide event. You are complaining about travelling across a country. What about us people in the UK etc who have an ocean to cross plus the whole of the US as well????

If thats the case then I say we should have it somewhere in Europe. Thats a central location for the whole world. Wouldnt you agree?

[modellor]

Your right, Steve, it's your ball and you make the rules.

I just happen to think that's the easy way out of a serious unforseen problem(I think it's a crock). And to top it off, you're expecting a lot people to drop serious cash("For the glory" of being fastest.), yet you won't spend any decent resources for a suitable way to time the speeds.

I'm not trying to stir it up, I was extremely interested in reading about this, seeing the pics and drooling over the whole show.

Until your last post.:(

My take on this is that the variables are to be taken into account at the design stage. Just making a choice between nitro and electric is a huge decision. Why??? What happens if it rains?? The electric cars will hit problems with fried electronics and the nitro guys will come to the fore because the water wont affect them the same over a short run.

If your car is designed properly then a wind if any given the surroundings of the track shouldnt even count cause your car will be going x mph faster than the rest anyway :D

I agree with Steve on this one. Fewer rules and more emphasis on design and gear choice make it more interesting. Making full use of design to combat any given changeable variables is all part of the show.

[modellor]

For FUN!!!

Then why do we have to wait over year to do this?

Why not this June?

Simply because it gives people a change to first get a car designed and manufactured (which can take up to 6 months) and also to give people travelling huge distances ample time to plan so they can get time off work etc and gather up the thousands of dollars required for flights and accomodation etc.

[modellor]

Well I think nitro has an equal chance of winning, but the BLs have done a lot to level the playing field.A nitro set up will be complex because of transmission and cooling issues.BLs because of battery issues.I think it's a very tough call,at this point,who has the advantage.I own both,but personally,I'm "imagineering" a nitro.

Nitro would be the best bet I would have to say. Its the path I am taking. Having 16yrs experience with Nitro engines I already know much about how they work and how to make them faster :D .

Cooling isnt a problem. These runs will be short. Cooling wont come into play too much and a well prepared nitro engine should be able to withstand 3 mins running without any heating problems. Our Palmaris engines ran for 15mins at over 300deg F without so much as a stutter.

[RC-scientist]

Well I dont come to the site very often and I thought I had something good to add.. I sent this email to RC car action on 5/6/2004... It is funny that this challenge popped up just a few days after...

I deleted the speeds as I dont want to give it all away...

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:45 AM
To: 'rccaraction@palmcoastd.com'
Subject: The Need for Speed

Dear Sirs,

I have been building a car for about 2 years now and I can accurately say that I have a Nitro Car that can clear the ***mph limit. I would like to send a video tape of it in action as well as a tape showing my Stalker and Lidar Guns showing ***.* mph. I can reach this speed in less that 8 seconds with my 1.60 twin 4 stroke running a 25% mix. The engine has been modified and can produce over 5 hp.

I am writing you to say that I would like to see if we could have a shoot out between my car/ cars I have another that is a 2 stroke that can do 100mph in 3.2 secs but the top speed is limited to about 108mph, and anything else that you think will compete. I live in Charleston. SC and I am near some 1/8 th mile drag tracks that could be used as a testing ground however I think if we were to meet at Darlington Int, we could have quite a event.

Understanding that an electric car could not compete in a full lap/s race however it would be interesting to try. Let me know if this it something that we could explore. If I had enough room with, I think with the power to weight ratio that I do have I could see ***mph, I am however concerned about my tires at those speeds.

I will look forward to a reply.

Casey {Deleted**

Anyway interesting coincidence...

[Craps]

I live in Charleston. SC and I am near some 1/8 th mile drag tracks that could be used as a testing ground however I think if we were to meet at Darlington Int, we could have quite a event.

I think Bristol Raceway (Bristol, TN) with it's very high banked corners taking handling out of the picture and the 1/2 mile oval size would make radio transmission range not an issue.

Needs to be one of those speed challenges in the heart of racing country USA.

[Interstate]

Why not Taledega then? Or is it simply too large?

[racerrandy]

PeterV
Moderator Join Date: 06-26-2000
Posts: 84

During the planning stages, I asked the same question about whether or not to run on the oval, and was given the same argument sosidge has made so well. It takes a fair amount of real estate to get a geared-to-the-moon 100mph car up to speed, and if all the running is done in a straight line, you'll run out of radio range quickly. The oval makes the distance more manageable. Also, the stadium will let drivers get up high to better see their cars and better reach them with their transmitters.



I think the above statement answers your question. You have to run reg. r/c radios. I don't see how you will do it in a strait line.

[Mike Keeney]

Ok for me. ;)

Mike

[EddieWeeks]

How come no body is talking about turbine powered car.. ?

Its really not a problem to install a small turbo to the back of
a gas turbine. Then its just a matter of finding the right gears
to go from the turbo charger to the drive shaft...

If I can get AMT turbines to lend me a AMT 180 I just may have
to enter this challange..

Eddie Weeks
http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/

[Grant Tokumi]

RC-scientist,
Interesting coincidence indeed. Pictures and videos would be nice.... I don't suppose your car happens to be right around 2-ft long is it?

[Craps]

PeterV
Moderator Join Date: 06-26-2000
Posts: 84

During the planning stages, I asked the same question about whether or not to run on the oval, and was given the same argument sosidge has made so well. It takes a fair amount of real estate to get a geared-to-the-moon 100mph car up to speed, and if all the running is done in a straight line, you'll run out of radio range quickly. The oval makes the distance more manageable. Also, the stadium will let drivers get up high to better see their cars and better reach them with their transmitters.



I think the above statement answers your question. You have to run reg. r/c radios. I don't see how you will do it in a strait line.

I understand it has to be on an oval due to radio problems, but does it have to be an oval with a low degree of banking that makes downforce and handling an issue, where there are at least 2 high banked 1/2 mile ovals in the country that I know of that would take most of the handling issue out of the speed run contest. Bristol, TN and I think Salem, OH(?) have the fastest 1/2 mile tracks anywhere with a high degree of banking. Bristol Raceway I know has a ground down concrete surface that appears to be very smooth and with very tall grandstands around the track to get elevation to operate the radio without problems.

Maybe next time.

[RC-scientist]

RC-scientist,
Interesting coincidence indeed. Pictures and videos would be nice.... I don't suppose your car happens to be right around 2-ft long is it?


Normally I would post pictures but now with the upcomming event I am not sure If I want to post them and give everyone time to copy what I have done. What fun would that be?

The car I have is about 17 inches.. as it was a modded Hyper10pro... so the size thing is probably done that way so they can be sure to get all 1/8th in there. Really I dont think there will be much of a contest, between gas and Electric, I know what you at thinking but trust me, electric really will have to carry way to many cells to get enough power. What are they going to do make one pass then charge then make another pass? That sounds like fun. I am sure most of the Gas Cars will make several before refuel.

I have about 2+ year on this particular project, so I can only make it go faster.... What is the current land speed record for a RC vehical? Is it 111 mph? Maybe I should go ahead and call Guiness...

[Craps]

I have about 2+ year on this particular project, so I can only make it go faster.... What is the current land speed record for a RC vehical? Is it 111 mph? Maybe I should go ahead and call Guiness...

You might find for less money to bring Guiness to you rather than travel to CA with all of you're equipment that may not be able show maximum speed due to the track limitations.

[Chris LaPanse]

Land speed record-111 by Cliff Lett with a modded L3O
Surface speed record-120.2 by a boat at the LA 2003 SAWS

[DualBL]

[QUOTE=RC-scientist] Really I dont think there will be much of a contest, between gas and Electric, I know what you at thinking but trust me, electric really will have to carry way to many cells to get enough power. What are they going to do make one pass then charge then make another pass? That sounds like fun. I am sure most of the Gas Cars will make several before refuel.QUOTE]

actually, Cliff's L3 only ran for about 30 before the 2/3AA batts died.
but with lipos @ 8000mah and most likely above 15,000mah by the time this contest is run, i think the electrics will be able to run for at least a few min before they dump. but overall, who cares how long it runs. if they cared about that, they'd wire them in paralell. but the contest is for speed. so series is what it will be.
-Nick

[Craps]

I quess they have not read the "Electric 1/8th Scale Racing" thread in the Brushless Forum using big brushless motors with 22.2 volts of 7600 mah Li-Pos. Gas buggies can not compare to the throttle up and top speed of the electric buggy.

You guys that have not used Li-Pos yet are in for a learning curve and may smoke a few ESCs before you discover how superior Li-Pos are to nickel batteries. Trust me on this one, if Electric wins, it will be with Li-Pos and brushless motors!!!!

[DaFF]

Really I dont think there will be much of a contest, between gas and Electric, I know what you at thinking but trust me, electric really will have to carry way to many cells to get enough power.

I think RC scientist will be in this challenge for a big surprise !

Watch the new batteries I did receive, now installed on my Pro4, see this thread in the Brushless forum for pictures and infos:

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169983

Two Lithium Polymer packs in serie for 14.8 volt and 3200 mA total:

Twice the power of regular 3300 Nimh and still 80 grams ( 2.5 oz ) less
:cool:

You can as well see it is the same dimension as a regular pack...

What are they going to do make one pass then charge then make another pass? That sounds like fun.I am sure most of the Gas Cars will make several before refuel.

This as well needs to be rephrased because with this battery, the run time of my pro4 will be over the 15 minutes marks, probably more like 20 minutes.

So, as the matter of fact, you will need to refuel twice before I have to swap my batt LoL :D So I am sorry, but I won't be able to help you refuel because I will still be doing more high speed passes while you'll be doing it !

The future is now.

New technology is available and we are already learning how to use it.

DFF

[Grant Tokumi]

I kind of figure weight is not as important because it only dictates acceleration, not top speed. Heavier vehicle will take longer to accelerate, but doesn't seem to me like it will really restrict top speed, unless gearing has to be changed just to get it up to speed. Actually, I thought a heavier vehicle would be advantageous because it would be more stable as well. Power to size (physical size/cross sectional area) ratio seems more important to me than power to weight ratio in this format of event..... is these not good assumptions?

Good luck to you RC-scientist. Can't wait to see the coverage next year.

[Spoon37]

Mike keeny: that engine rules!!!

as for the nitro/electric thing....

2 points BL/brushed seems to make little difference, its just that the current breed of BL motors use rare earth magnets and are designed for very high voltages, so comapred to ROAR legal brushed motors then obviosuly the brushed will seem limited on performance, so yeah brushed can be built really fast. BL tends to be a bit more efficient tho, which is why it tends to be looked at as an eaiser route....

secondly nitro do not make very high RPM's, not compared to good BL motors(most of which can make 60,000-80,000RPM without breaking a sweat) making high speed easier, but if properly designed the gearing of a suitable nitro tranny should compensate for this and rely on the nitro engine having enough torque to pull higher gearing than would be needed for the electrics...

and weight is an issue, Grant Tokumi: you assume that more weight means more power, e.g. thrust SSC uses two jet engines and weighs over 8 tonnes but the thrust/weight ratio is stacked in its favour. one of the definitions of power is the ability to move a given weight to a given speed, so more power means more speed, but also less weight and the same power means more speed too. you must strike a balance between lightweight and powerful to acheive high speed.

thats why I dont think an MT will do it I am an electric MT nut, but I can't see any electric MT reaching 100mph or more, there is just too much weight even if it is grossly overpowered(as is the case of many dual BL maxxes). I reckon they would accelerate pretty well but probably top out on speed due to excess weight, drag or gearing limitations. heck I know its pretty hard to get most of My MT's anywhere near 40mph...lol

I do like that 8 wheeled chassis idea tho - it would spread the load more and may allow smaller wheels to be used for less aerodynamic drag......

;)

[Grant Tokumi]

I was amazed at how fast and stable the TC3 looked as it sailed down the backstretch at nearly 100mph. Cliff explained that the 4WD TC3 had more traction than his 2WD L3O, and that made the TC3 much easier to launch off the line and easier to drive. Ironically, Team Associated tested a 2WD TC3 speed-run car, but there wasn’t any noticeable speed advantage even with the savings in rotating weight.
I think this is a key point regarding rotating mass (inertia).

[Interstate]

Steve Pond said in his article that even with the sky high gearing, he still had traction problems getting off the line.

[bhstall]

I understand it has to be on an oval due to radio problems, but does it have to be an oval with a low degree of banking that makes downforce and handling an issue, where there are at least 2 high banked 1/2 mile ovals in the country that I know of that would take most of the handling issue out of the speed run contest. Bristol, TN and I think Salem, OH(?) have the fastest 1/2 mile tracks anywhere with a high degree of banking. Bristol Raceway I know has a ground down concrete surface that appears to be very smooth and with very tall grandstands around the track to get elevation to operate the radio without problems.

Maybe next time.


Its Salem Indiana, There is more info at their site /www.salemspeedway.com/

[bhstall]

I understand it has to be on an oval due to radio problems, but does it have to be an oval with a low degree of banking that makes downforce and handling an issue, where there are at least 2 high banked 1/2 mile ovals in the country that I know of that would take most of the handling issue out of the speed run contest. Bristol, TN and I think Salem, OH(?) have the fastest 1/2 mile tracks anywhere with a high degree of banking. Bristol Raceway I know has a ground down concrete surface that appears to be very smooth and with very tall grandstands around the track to get elevation to operate the radio without problems.

Maybe next time.


Its Salem Indiana, There is more info at their site /www.salemspeedway.com/

[lerningdriver]

anyone know what an estimated top speed is gonna be at this race? i'm guessing 120-140?? what do you guys think?

[Grant Tokumi]

I'm ballparking 150 mph.

Here's an interesting thought I came up with to put it into perspective since I can't visualize a 1/2 mile track, but I can a football field. 150 mph is 220 fps (feet per second). Converted, thats 300 ft (1 football field) in 1.36 seconds. So at 150 mph, you can travel a whole football field in 1.4 seconds. So you should be accelerating up to top speed by 1 football field. That allows 1.4 seconds of top speed (150 mph) through a 2nd length of a football field. Thats 200 yds, and on a 1/2 mile track, the straight is probably around 200 yds which means you will probably be entering the curve going at 150 mph. You'll most likely have to do some radical decceleration in the curves, otherwise the wall will deccelerate it for you.... :)

[crank throw wei]

Like Grant,I think 150 will be the #,= or - a few MPH.I've been thinking about this very seriously,and I believe I have conceptualize a vehicle capable of that speed,but I keep coming back to tires as being the weak link in the equation.

[Mike Keeney]

I'm ballparking 150 mph.

...... You'll most likely have to do some radical decceleration in the curves, otherwise the wall will deccelerate it for you.... :)
A problem made more serious for those of us with locked rear ends. Posi's don't like to turn.

Mike

[Grant Tokumi]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on the math, but based on this equation in another thread:
Fc = mv2/r
where Fc = centrifugal force, m = mass, v= speed, r= radius

I'm calculating that at 150 mph and a 6" diameter tire, the tire will be experiencing 6000g's of centrifugal acceleration.

[KTRTS]

I wouldn't call it a tyre by then :D

[lerningdriver]

a balloon? :p... but what are you plugging in for the mass grant?

[Grant Tokumi]

mass cancels out.
F=m*a
ma= mv2/r
a=v2/r

I thought factors of gravity (G) would be more relevant than some force value.

v=220 fps
r=.25 feet

a=220*220/0.25=193,600 ft/sec2
193,600/32.2 = 6012G

This still could be wrong. Its seems quite outrageously large. And thats for a 6" tire. A 2" tire (TC tire?) would be 18000 Gs!!!! I'm a bit suspicious that I'm assuming a linear acceleration ("a") value, when it might actually be some angular acceleration value.... Crank?

[AudiTT-Quattro]

Grant,

Your calculations are for centripetal accleration, NOT centrifugal acceleration. HUGE difference...

[crank throw wei]

I think this (http://regentsprep.org/Regents/physics/phys06/bcentrif/default.htm) page can explain it better than I can. I do think a fully belted tire of as large of diameter as possible will be needed.One thing is for certain: No "standard" R/C tire will work for these types of speeds.

[EddieWeeks]

Just get some of these... I use them on my Jets and they go 80 mph
with 30 lbs load all day long..

http://www.bvmjets.com/Accessories/wheels.htm

Eddie Weeks
http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/

[MegaMe]

im still concerned about getting anywhere near 150mph on this track due to its tight corners...

this has come up a couple of times - but seems to have been ignored so far, i suppose because noone has any answers to the problem


but i just wanted to check the forces in the corners:
im from australia so i work in metres and stuff but the way i see it:

1/2 mile is about 800 metres, although i dont know what 1/2 mle actually refers to - is it the circumference of the inside of the track? im assuming it is... from the picture (http://www.irwindalespeedway.com/site/track.html) i would guess that the straights are about 150m long... leaving 800-300 = 500m in the corners

500 = 2 * pi * radius

so radius of the track is about 80 metres.

i found this: "Irwindale Speedway is a 1/2-mile paved oval with blended banking of six, nine and 12 degrees in the corners and banking of six degrees in the straights."

so say the banking is 9 degrees then after spending 20 minutes doing some nice geometry and then finding a page that had it all done for me: :rolleyes:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mechanics/carbank.html#c1

we see that if the coefficent of friction is 1 then we can go round at 73mph
if coefficent of friction is 2 then we can go round the corners at 111mph and of the coefficent of friction is 3 then we can go round at 153 mph

this coefficent of friction can kinda be equated to be the gforces the car is pulling - although its all screwy with the banking angle.

i dont know what gforces rc cars generally pull with the foam tyres and eveything but without downforce i would be surprised if they can pull much more than 1 g???

with that 111 mph run from cliff lett he said he had to slow down for the corners - its quoted earlier in this thread. if he was going say 95mph in the corners and the accelerated to 110 on the straights then his coefficent of friction was about 1.6, even with the body he was using that looks like it would produce a fair amount of downforce...

to me this kinda suggests 2 things: 1 is that you will need downforce and alot of it to win with this track, as well as fat tyres to provide lots of grip, or else you have a very fast accelerating car that can go from say 80mph to whatever speed you want in about 100 metres (as if the straight is say 150m long then you probably want about 50 metres to slow down for the corner :) )
i think something like those lola bodies that are everywhere would be good???

second thing this suggests is that you need a wide car or a low centre of gravity so that it dosent flip in the turns. that means those people who want to put on big gocart engines or want to run a monster truck or anything else with a high centre of gravity. or as before you could make something that will accelerate in the 100 metre or so straight. note that there arent any problems reported on the record attempt website with cliff lett's 96mph tc3, even though its not that wide and has 2 levels of batteries on it, so it should not be such a big problem for normal looking rc cars i think?


i really think that providing enough downforce will be essential to win this competition on this track, as if you are serious about winning then you probably want to pull at least 2 g's on the turns.


oh last thing i with that tc3 they commented that they had no extra speed even in 2wd mode... i dont think that having 4wd on these cars will effect the speed to much. generally a gear pair is between 95 and 99% efficent, and i dont know about universals or dogbone links but provided the suspension arms are pretty horizontal i dont think you would lose too much power... even if you lose say 10% power through 4wd or independent suspension it should only cost you 1 or 2 mph, and it may save you lots of money if its stops you spinning into a wall or something :)

[StevePond]

Like Grant,I think 150 will be the #,= or - a few MPH.I've been thinking about this very seriously,and I believe I have conceptualize a vehicle capable of that speed,but I keep coming back to tires as being the weak link in the equation.

The tires are going to be a big part of this. Most off-the-shelf touring tires shred at about 80, so something larger in diameter is certainly called for. I used the "Super" sized tires and wheels on my last car with sucess. They were Kevlar belted, but I think they would have easily survived with standard belting. Going faster... not sure how they'd hold up. ;-)

[DualBL]

steve, can you give us more info, or a link to the tires that you used?
-Nick

[DaFF]

Go to the HPI Website,

http://www.hpiracing.com

then click on "tires"

then "super size tires"

That is the kind of tires Steve is refering to.

Hope this help

DFF

[racerrandy]

Man, my head hurts after that geometry lesson! :D

I really think everyone is over analizing this. If the track is 1/2 mile on the inside then the outside could be closer to 3/4. You won't drive a straight line around the track, if you go high in 3 on a rolling start then you can cut down low in turn 4 to straighten the track out kinda and gradually move up the track to go through the traps.

I really think the track is not going to be the issue. I think tires is the number one deal.

[MegaMe]

yeah you can do that randy if you have a fast accelerating car... but at high speeds its much harder to accelerate as quickly as low speeds, both because of the wind resistance and the fact that it takes much much more energy to accelerate from say 0 - 20mph than from 100 - 120 mph...
when you think of cliff letts car - they said they had trouble getting it off the line because it had so much power - so its not a slow accelerating car by any means, but even going round the corner and then accelerating along the straight - they were in the 100mph range... they only broke 110mph because they didnt brake for the corner in time and wiped out - something that most entrants might try to avoid :)

you can ignore my calculations and stuff if you like - you dont need to understand them to understand the problem, because we already have a perfect example which demonstrates the issue quite clearly... from this article (http://www.rccaraction.com/rc/articles/need_speed.asp) which uses the same track it says this:
"After the run, Cliff reported that the motor still had plenty of revs left and could have gone even faster if space had allowed."

the corners were a problem for him - and i think they will be a problem for anyone else who dosent take the cornering issue seriously...
having said that - the tyres he used did appear to be pretty narrow and not so grippy, and the body looked ok - but i think a lola body or similar would produce more downforce. So i think its not so hard to improve on his corner speeds, and hence hopefully improve on his top speed, so i think the problem can be avoided if you recognise it.

[RC-scientist]

Read my post on the new size forum.

150mph ha, with this new size thing I think it will be more like 200mph.. Also I think the L3o was running on just one section of the track, so if you open it up to the turns I think the sky is the limit.

As far as I have read there is not a engine size limitation so I think 1 liter or 1000cc's will be enough, for now. Well unless I hear of a 300hp bell helicopter engine being used and I guess I would just be back to the drawing board.

Steve needs to think long and hard about this. This change really moves the contest into less RC more real world mechanics. Not that RC car dont have them but now you are talking about full size engines. Gasoline, or alchohol top fuel engines. The sky is really the limit.

I bought a polar clutch and should have the ZX-10R apart by weekend. I will see if it will work then, if not I will just put it back in my bike, but if it does? I will be sure to tell that guy who was talkign about electrics to keep dreaming.

Steve, The whole track will be ours? What kind of time will we get to test our cars? I plan to bring at least 3 cars to the event 1 that is completed and 2 that I am building. It would have been 2 but the lenght changed and I was allready about 80% done with the design.

If this lenght stays and the engine size is not limited.. The number will be around 220mph I am sure of it.

RC-Scientist

[Hz-R]

Just a question: is there any video footage of Cliff Letts run?? Would be intresting to watch how bumpy the track is for ride height etc.

For you guys interested in aerodynamics, I found this web page with lots of close-up pictures of Le Mans racecars:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com

Sounds like a lot of cool cars are being built! Lots of power is not going to be a problem, handling it is, that's for sure!

Anybody trying for a solar powered rc world speed record? :(

[guver]

Can anyone confirm this?
It takes 10 times the power to double the speed, especially at higher than 100. Is it a constant slope?

[Mike Keeney]

Read my post on the new size forum.

150mph ha, with this new size thing I think it will be more like 200mph.. Also I think the L3o was running on just one section of the track, so if you open it up to the turns I think the sky is the limit.

..{snip**...

If this lenght stays and the engine size is not limited.. The number will be around 220mph I am sure of it.

RC-Scientist

It's impossible to predict who, or what kind of car will win. I couldn't tell you to save my life whether my 40" blown nitro V8 is a sure bet to set the record. Engine power is only one factor to be considered. All the hp in the world won't do you any good if you can't get it to the ground. After that, there's a bunch of other factors that come into play. Any one of which can cost you the prize.

Like the old saying, it over till the fat lady sings.

Mike

[lerningdriver]

^^^ that's a saying??? lol

but no, I don't think we will get to see 200 mph... not any time soon atleast.

[AudiTT-Quattro]

KE = 0.5mv^2 where 'm' is the mass, 'v' is the velocity, and power being a function of work... And no, it's not a linear function (that would be sweet though!)

EDIT: Post is directed at guver.

[Mike Keeney]

^^^ that's a saying??? lol


Well, I did say it was old. ;)

Mike

[crank throw wei]

150mph ha, with this new size thing I think it will be more like 200mph..

Steve needs to think long and hard about this. This change really moves the contest into less RC more real world mechanics. Not that RC car dont have them but now you are talking about full size engines. Gasoline, or alchohol top fuel engines. The sky is really the limit.

If this lenght stays and the engine size is not limited.. The number will be around 220mph I am sure of it.

RC-Scientist
I agree.My 150 mph figure was targeted at the 24" rule.I'm sure Steve was just trying to accomodate the 1/5 scale guys,but this really relagates the 1/10-1/8 scale cars to also rans,IMO.I could potentially see using an 1100cc turbocharged motorcycle engine,which seems to me moves this competition out of the relm of what we normally consider RC.

[racerrandy]

Where are you guys gonna put a motorcycle engine at on this 40" long beast. you can only get it so low, you'll have no room for suspension, and it will be about as aerodynamic as a bale of hay. Pull the trigger just a tiny bit too fast or hit one tiny bump, and you'll be pickin it up with a broom and dustpan.

Maybe they will make it like NHRA, and fine you for oiling down the track! :D

Later, Randy

[Mike Keeney]

All the horsepower in the world won't do you a bit of good if you can't get it to the ground.

Mike

[Hz-R]

Can anyone confirm this?
It takes 10 times the power to double the speed, especially at higher than 100. Is it a constant slope?

It's not a constant slope.
F=q * Cw * A * V2/2

F = Force
q = density of air
Cw = drag coefficient (depends on shape)
A = frontal area
v = speed

As you can see the speed makes the force it takes to push the car forward go up exponentially.

Should be enough math for today!

[crank throw wei]

Where are you guys gonna put a motorcycle engine at on this 40" long beast.
That was an obvious exaggeration to illustrate a point.BTW,the 650 sitting in my garage is 14" front to back.

[mgs9]

are you sure thats going to work, Because of the weight i mean you double the weight you need four times the power and that wuld probly be like tripling the weight.
Just a thought

[DCLXVI]

Well, since he would have about 100 times the power of a good .21 I'd guess he's going to be in the "power requiremts meets delivered power" ballpark :D

[racerrandy]

Well I thought it might but since I don't know you, :eek:

I think you get what I am saying too. I guess I am hoping people will keep this within the realm of true R/C.

But that is whats cool about this contest, if it meets the rules, bring it on!

[Stocker452]

meh some of u just dont get it...this isnt drag racing, you dont have to get it up to speed in 3 seconds, HUGE MX engines (some1 mentioned a 650 cc engine i think...***!?!?!?!) thats way too big, to get all that torque to the ground u would need tires the same size as that engine, and a slipper clutch would prolly melt.

This is what I think a car needs:

-High RPM over torque..remember we arent dragging
-Insanely low CG...design chassis first, choose power later
-some 1/8 scale tires for some great traction
-High torque LOW speed servo...a high speed servo with result in twitching the car back and forth which WILL result in flipping...Torque for handling minor defects in surface
-This thing must go straight as a Rail
-Good Downforce...may involve designing your own bodies
-Extremly low resistence in Electronics and Drive Train
-and most importantly...Function OVER Form...who cares if it looks bad, if it works you can whoop every1's butt that says your car is stupid!

[Mike Keeney]

meh some of u just dont get it...this isnt drag racing, you dont have to get it up to speed in 3 seconds, HUGE MX engines (some1 mentioned a 650 cc engine i think...***!?!?!?!) thats way too big, to get all that torque to the ground u would need tires the same size as that engine, and a slipper clutch would prolly melt.

This is what I think a car needs:

-High RPM over torque..remember we arent dragging
-Insanely low CG...design chassis first, choose power later
-some 1/8 scale tires for some great traction
-High torque LOW speed servo...a high speed servo with result in twitching the car back and forth which WILL result in flipping...Torque for handling minor defects in surface
-This thing must go straight as a Rail
-Good Downforce...may involve designing your own bodies
-Extremly low resistence in Electronics and Drive Train
-and most importantly...Function OVER Form...who cares if it looks bad, if it works you can whoop every1's butt that says your car is stupid!
Then by all means, that's what you should bring. :)

So many unknowns, so little time. ;)

Mike

[RC-scientist]

Look, I was trying to prove a point. What I dont like is with the dimension at 40" you can do what I talked about. A Kawasaki zx-10R can be fit into about 25 inches if needed. So then get some car tires, maybe some juior dragster tires and you are set. It is not RC anymore it is road racing at 40" plan and simple.

hopefully there will not be allot of fullsize engine cars and some inovative RC stuff but time will only tell.

BTW, I have made it past the 140mph mark, Hoepfully I will have a car that does at least 150mph by June, probably much faster. And this is a True RC car.. 22" long! I ws thinking about posting some pictures but I decided to post a Video of what a 125+ mph run looks like... It is going up on my website this weekend. You really dont see the car go by, you just hear it...

If anyone needs gears mades let me know. I have just made a few sets and they seem to be working great. It takes about 2 days to make them so I can have them to you in about 1 week.

[mgs9]

do you make both pinion and spur gears?

[Fastcar]

I got a couple of quick questions...

1.Will the racing speed run area be sprayed with some sort of traction compound like sugar water, vht, or grape soda???

2. Is it true that at this speed run your gonna have make turns???

Fastcar

[Chris LaPanse]

1: I didn't know grape soda increased traction
2: Yes, unless you want to hit the wall. However, this is a race track for FULL SIZE cars. The RC cars should be able to make it with no problem

[DualBL]

rc-scientist, what's your site's url?
-Ncik

[Fastcar]

turning shouldn't be a part of it.... looking for speed, not driving skills....
grape soda on the racing area....makes the track/racing area sticky so we can get some traction...

another Question
1. will the speed run be 300 feet... or however it takes to get to your top speed?

[racerrandy]

Fastcar,the answer to your question is on the first page of this thread.

[ExtremeMT]

Vehicle speed will be measured by running the car through an electronic speed trap (likely to come from Race America), and you can use as much of the speedway as your radio range will allow to get up to speed.

I hope we see lots of creative stuff. A monster truck may not challenge Cliff Lett's 111mph record, but it sure would be cool to see a monster pushing 80mph! I'd love to see a three-wheeler in the mix, motorcycles, a Tamiya King Hauler with 100 cells in the trailer...wild stuff.


Hehehehe Im rethinking my plans for my NMT...(BTW My HPI NMT WILL be hitting atleast 80mph within 4-6months! :D)

[mgs9]

I think it would be funny and intresting to see somebody beef up a tank.

[Mike Keeney]

I got a couple of quick questions...

1.Will the racing speed run area be sprayed with some sort of traction compound like sugar water, vht, or grape soda???
Fastcar
I'd bet the track owners wouldn't allow anything to be sprayed on the track. Their bread and butter comes from racing full sized cars and the track is likely just fine for that purpose.

Cheers,
Mike

[Fastcar]

oh ok racerrandy
says as much room as needed..... but I thought a speed run was 300 feet..
Then its gonna be real tough get these cars to hook up and run big MPH...

[ExtremeMT]

Me and 2 friends will hopefully be going and we are taking the following

My HPI NitroMT with a hyper .21 8 port (still considering the picco .26 actually). Custom chasis and suspension and HEAVILY beefed up drivetrain. Also going to toy with an idea for the transmission but cant say what just yet ;)

My friends Mad Force with I forget which engine but its gonna fly...geared up pretty high and custom chasis and suspension work

My friends eletric rusty with a brushless setup.

Sorry I cant give that many details about their 2 cars...dont know that miuch since we havent talked and I dont feel like typing all mine out specifically what Im doing to my truck

We are also going to build an eletric onroad from scratch pretty much...make our own chasis, shock towers, a arms, steering linkage....all of that...should be fun :D

[EddieWeeks]

http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/weeks1/59.jpg

http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/weeks1/track.jpg


Here is what I bringing... 1/5 scale Jetcat P70 turbine powered
(in the pic its stock G23 power)

The other drawing is my guess at the track.... I need to know
how far the run up was before the Start / Finish line...
The shape may not be right on, but it measures 1/2 mile ID..

It looks like we will have 300-400 feet to get up to speed without
getting to far into the turn.. Same to stop..

If someone knows more about the track size / radius ect.. let me know
is I will refine the drawing..

Eddie Weeks
http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/

[crank throw wei]

Looks sweet Eddie! Swoopy!

YGPM

[NotWalkinBlind]

Will the racing speed run area be sprayed with some sort of traction compound like sugar water, vht, or grape soda???If sugar water or grape soda is used, everybody's car needs to be able to run well with thousands of ants out there. :D

[eb4flys]

ok guys, i feel i can comment as i wont be in the country for the race, as you are all wasting time arguing over what speeds you can get....i am new to rc but i have years of racing a porsche 3.7 rs full size all over the world. alot of your ideas sound great, and yes at the end of the day, down force and gearing are the most important, but what about the fun factor if i was there i would be racing a trash can with an elastic band, at least you would be remembered, you are never going to beat the factory teams....we all know there budgets it was the same with the full size cars, so just have fun...ioh yes and in case your intrested somewhere on the web there is a ntro powered car that does over 200 mph these things were the forunners of rc, but it is a tether car,(goes round a 200m track tied to steel wire, amazing to see, just put a search in for tether car, if you have problems finding it let me know and i will find it and post a link, enjoy
michael

[eb4flys]

i found the link for the 200mph teather car guys, have a look let me know what you think...
http://videos.radiocontrolzone.com/200+mph_nitro_cwh.zip

michael

[DaFF]

Yeah, but tether cars don't have steering system, nor do they have receiver or servos, no brake or throttle management either.

They can run skinny tire as well, because handling is no issue.

By the time you add all that stuff onto a car, it will become way bigger, with more frontal area and your top speed will decrease.

It's not the same game at all.

Only my 0.02 Euro

DFF

[Fastcar]

If sugar water or grape soda is used, everybody's car needs to be able to run well with thousands of ants out there. :D


but at least they'd be able to get plenty of traction....thats why this needs to be done on a dragstrip.....and a speed run is 300 feet as far as I know...maybe their needs to be to records....

[eb4flys]

Yeah, but tether cars don't have steering system, nor do they have receiver or servos, no brake or throttle management either.

They can run skinny tire as well, because handling is no issue.

By the time you add all that stuff onto a car, it will become way bigger, with more frontal area and your top speed will decrease.

It's not the same game at all.

Only my 0.02 Euro

DFF

i realize that a tether car is a different game i simply put the link there for all the people who said a nitro engine could not reach 200+mph,

[bimmerboy007]

what will be the body of choice, mclaren? lambo? i think one of those, with lexan added to be more areo

[NotWalkinBlind]

but at least they'd be able to get plenty of traction....thats why this needs to be done on a dragstrip.....and a speed run is 300 feet as far as I know...maybe their needs to be to records....Plenty of traction? Ahem. That would depend on how many ants come to the picnic... if there are a good many out there, the situation could become rather tenuous.

It could be worse than when fullsize cars go off the racing line and get "in the marbles."

I know I wouldn't want to be standing anywhere near the track if a car went wacko on ants and did a snap roll. :eek:

[Fastcar]

well I know one thing... if they don't use any sort of traction whether it be sugar water or VHT these fast car will not get hooked up and run the MPH everyone is looking for.....

[NotWalkinBlind]

I agree... so somebody just needs to put a dish of VHT out there and see if the local ants think it's groovy... we already know what they'd think of the other options.

[auto2]

I haven't read this whole thread but my first thought was one of those gas teather cars that already go so fast and convert it to RC radio.there is a vid someware on them. How fast did they go ? close to 200 if I remember. There was 600 pounds of force on the wire at that speed. Imaging one of them running around the whole track.

[Speedtester]

Yea they had a discussion about them a few pages back. They arent a real r/c though and people tend to get pissed when they are compared. I dont blame them because a car on a string doesnt count.

I haven't read this whole thread but my first thought was one of those gas teather cars that already go so fast and convert it to RC radio.there is a vid someware on them. How fast did they go ? close to 200 if I remember. There was 600 pounds of force on the wire at that speed. Imaging one of them running around the whole track.

[Justanoldracer]

What I see Brewing here is a tire war ! For even an 1/8th scale car to go 150 would require about 17,000 rpm at the wheel with 100% traction. It must sustain this rpm while all the dynamic loads are placed on it and maintain it's physical integrity and traction. GOOD LUCK !!! Who makes or has the ability to make such tires ? I remember when speed runs of the early 90's were limited by tires literally exploding in the mid 80's range. Has tire technology come that far?

[Mike Keeney]

I'm going to use the new tires from Hoosier. They'll be somewhere around 8 to 10 inches in diameter. But even Hoosier says they're not rated for these kinds of speeds. Guess there's only one way to find out. :)

Mike

[2.5 guy]

I wonder how fast my project nitro dump will go.It's fairly light from the store, and it would give me an advantage possibly. I won't take it to the copetition, thouh. Too far away.

[MOVINFAST]

Is Air Power Ok.......i Might Have To Build Up Another Air Dragster ...lol...wish I Could Find My Pics And Time Sheet...grrrrrrr

[RC-scientist]

Are there any serious competitors out there? Any News on what manufactures will be out there? Most of you are talking about pipe dreams,, anyone have a 3 digit car yet? How about 120mph anyone there yet?

Broke another personal record on the 4th of July.... Onward and upwards...

Anyone that wants to bet on if there car will win against mine, I will take the bet... However I play for the car you drive so beprepard to hand it over...

Good luck guys... Glad to see that the competition is still in the clouds...

The Scientist

[Mike Keeney]

Anyone that wants to bet on if there car will win against mine, I will take the bet... However I play for the car you drive so beprepard to hand it over...

Good luck guys... Glad to see that the competition is still in the clouds...

The Scientist
Isn't this posted in the wrong thread? ;)
Mike

[EddieWeeks]

I will bet you, a case of bear, my turbine car will smoke anything
out there... If I can keep the rubber on the rims, its all over with...

Eddie Weeks
http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/weeks1/car.html

[Mike Keeney]

I will bet you, a case of bear, my turbine car will smoke anything
out there... If I can keep the rubber on the rims, its all over with...

Eddie Weeks
http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/weeks1/car.html

Oh Yeah, Well I'll bet you a Carls Junior Six Dollar Burger that my car will kick your cars ass after you've finished smoking the other guys car. (If I can keep the rubber on the rims too.)

:D
Mike

[Speedtester]

A case of bear might be a bit heavy. :D :D
I cant wait to see some new pics of your turbinemobile.

I will bet you, a case of bear, my turbine car will smoke anything
out there... If I can keep the rubber on the rims, its all over with...

Eddie Weeks
http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/weeks1/car.html

[EddieWeeks]

Half the fun of all this will be the smak talking before hand...

But if I loose I will buy the beer.... I am flying my Isobar Jet
this weekend in Shreveport, but will get back to working on the car soon.

There are no secrets at my camp, mostly because I know not
many people are going to do what I am doing...

As soon as I get it running I will post all speeds good or bad.... hahah

You know.. I have not had this much fun in quite a while...

ps... Keep your busted slowpoke car at the house.

Eddie Weeks

[NotWalkinBlind]

It's okay to say P.O.S. ...you don't have to say "slowpoke." ...chuckle...

[eb4flys]

NOW NOW girls, if your cars go half as fast as your mouth's you would both reach the moon in 5 seconds, why dont you both have a quick reality check, anyway, i dont remember the rules saying you could both run your barbie doll jeeps......time is running out, get real or get out, the silly ideas go in another part of the forum!! :mad: this is for the guys who would donate a part to a fellow racer if in need, not mouth off.

[Mike Keeney]

NOW NOW girls, if your cars go half as fast as your mouth's you would both reach the moon in 5 seconds, why dont you both have a quick reality check, anyway, i dont remember the rules saying you could both run your barbie doll jeeps......time is running out, get real or get out, the silly ideas go in another part of the forum!! :mad: this is for the guys who would donate a part to a fellow racer if in need, not mouth off.
Chill out dude, it's nothing more than harmless chiding. I didn't see any rule preventing people from having some fun on the forum.

Cheers,
Mike

[T-Maxx000]

I'll never get to this event, but couldn't u take a low turn motor and hard wire tons of battery power to it. Just a thought, probably wouldn't work

[T-Maxx000]

The hard wiring is so u wouldn't risk blowing an ESC

[mgs9]

Whats everys ones views and opinions on drive trains? Do you think it would be better to have a 2wd front,rear , 4wd, heck even 1wd if you'd like.

[eb4flys]

question for steve pond? why put up a forum for stupid ideas and then close it because people put stupid ideas on there..... :confused:

[DaFF]

Just a bit curious, but why a P80 when the P90 comp is the Picco top of the line boat engine ?

DFF

[studysession]

There have been so many replies I did not read them all. This is interesting

A local company sponsors me and we are working on a car to do just that. Be the fastest ever in the world. We are using all conventional RC car stuff. Just modified motor mounts and small chassis to allow room for the batteries and stronger gearing. This is way cool to see this posted here.

I forward this info onto my sponsor. This can be great fun.

The company who is sponsoring my car is MTroniks:
http://www.mtroniks.new

[studysession]

I'll never get to this event, but couldn't u take a low turn motor and hard wire tons of battery power to it. Just a thought, probably wouldn't work

YES - you can do this but you will not be able to properly control the car.

[studysession]

Whats everys ones views and opinions on drive trains? Do you think it would be better to have a 2wd front,rear , 4wd, heck even 1wd if you'd like.

Using the Venom Speed Meter to measure my speed - my car currently has hit 93MPh before the ESC blew. I was using 2wd and found it very hard to control above the 50 - 60MPh. If I had a choice, I would use 4wd.

[studysession]

Are airplane radios actually more powerful? .

I did not see a response so sorry if this is repeated: Not really, a lot of people think they are more powerful because how far a plane is flown from where the pilot is standing. There are no obstructions and everything is line of site. So if you have a good radio FM or PCM you will be able to control the car from a great distance.

[studysession]

what i am wondering is why so many people think that a light car is the way to go. look at bonneville cars; heavy is the name of the game. weight is free downforce. downforce from wings is drag. sure since these cars (and trucks?) will have to be turning, they can't exactly use cinder blocks for ballast, but i think a featherweight pan car would be a bad idea.

kudos on the awards. their are nothing but names in a book at bonneville, and there are no shortages of people racing there.

To a certain extent I agree. I think if you design it right, you should be able to make a brick go 200MPh. And think the weight will help keeping the car stable.

[studysession]

It is too far away from 90% of us, unless you happen to live on the west coast.

I am in the UK / England. I am considering going. I have been talking to my wife asking her if she is intersted in all of us coming as a whole family to this thing.

[studysession]

Is anybody using a drag car (rail, funnycar or pro stock) for this competition?

I have given this a lot of thought. With a dragster you can fit more cells more easily. I own a CNC Mill in my garage. I am right now making a custom chassis and motor plates to make room for the cells. For my test chassis, I am using aluminum. It is a cheaper material. For my final, I am using carbon fiber.

[mgs9]

i had this 2wd academy car, a cheapo but i put a larger motor, I think it had an academy 380 or maby like a 400, but i put a 540 traxxas 20 turn in it and changed the gear ration from like 3.3to1 to i think a 2.7to1, it was pretty fast but it was realy hard to start out because it would just peal tire, even when i was going, if you pulled the throtal it would peal and the left tire would slip and it would just do a 180. was that your problem with 2wd?

[studysession]

I just think 4wd has more control. I start really slow and build up speed to keep it from doing the 180's. Even with 4wd, start out slow and build up speed. If not can easily lose control of the car.

[studysession]

My post above - the URL is wrong - My sponsors website is http://www.mtroniks.net

[StevePond]

I did not see a response so sorry if this is repeated: Not really, a lot of people think they are more powerful because how far a plane is flown from where the pilot is standing. There are no obstructions and everything is line of site. So if you have a good radio FM or PCM you will be able to control the car from a great distance.

They are built to the same limits to the best of my knowledge. FYI, you're going to need a PCM radio, and only legal US frequencies WITHOUT EXCEPTION. The rules require a failsafe that will control the car in the event of signal interference or failure. I'd hate to see someone go packing because they showed up on a funny, but there's no way it will be allowed. Not saying that for anyone's benefit in particular, just letting everyonen know to run on 75 or the legal 27 band (STRONGLY recommend 75 MHz).

[Mike Keeney]

Sorry about that folks, but I had a bad link to the Blown V8. Try this: Blown V8. (http://www.SilvestriEnterprises.com/Blown V8.mpg)

This engine sounds real cool, but it's really only for display and good sound. The engine I'm designing will be a little larger than this one, but much more power. The engine in the vid only has a 1" bore & stroke, and it's burning gas. They're allot of fun running on nitro though. They shoot flames about a foot and a half.

:) Mike

[studysession]

They are built to the same limits to the best of my knowledge. FYI, you're going to need a PCM radio, and only legal US frequencies WITHOUT EXCEPTION. The rules require a failsafe that will control the car in the event of signal interference or failure. I'd hate to see someone go packing because they showed up on a funny, but there's no way it will be allowed. Not saying that for anyone's benefit in particular, just letting everyonen know to run on 75 or the legal 27 band (STRONGLY recommend 75 MHz).


Thanks - I have a Futaba 3PK - it is PCM/FM - And I plan on getting the 75Mhz module. Right now I have the 40MHz module because that is the legal RC Car frequency over here. ;)

This will be a lot of fun and a great learning experience for everyone. :)

[Spoon37]

"what i am wondering is why so many people think that a light car is the way to go. look at bonneville cars; heavy is the name of the game. weight is free downforce. downforce from wings is drag. sure since these cars (and trucks?) will have to be turning, they can't exactly use cinder blocks for ballast, but i think a featherweight pan car would be a bad idea."

whilst I agree that a heavier car will be more stable at speed, it is quite simply that a heavier car needs more power to reach a certain speed, therefore more weight needs more power. so featherweight may not be the very best idea, but all the fast cars will be as light as they can be for their particular power source.....

another way of putting it is extra weight is extra drag at any speed, at least downforce keeps it steady at high speeds, yet flimsy aerofoils or wings dont add much weight.

as for 4wd or 2wd - thats a good question, rwd would make sense in principle as there is less rotating mass to get moving, more weight concentrated over the rear wheels where the traction is most needed, and the rwd pan cars are some of the lightest cars ever(for their size) so the power to weight ratio is fantastic. however as for controlling the thing at over 100mph? thats another matter 4wd would be more stable yet would waste energy getting up to speed....

also dont forget the electric record holder at 111mph was an AE RC10L3 pan car RWD with a BL motor and 36cells(I think). I guess most competitive electrics will be similar to this, however the use of LiPo cells may allow for a faster car??(less weight, same voltage, meaning higher gearing could be used).

either way (4wd or 2wd) I guess you would want as little steering as possible at speed, any twitchiness at high speed would cause serious probs.....

and I agree with whoever said about remembering to have fun - thats why I'd prolly turn up with an MT - I know it aint gonna win, but I'd love to see the faces if I was there with like a juggernaut 2 or something.....you know that strange Tamiya that does like 10mph out of the box (and will take twin BL and has room for a heck of alot of cells.....:p)...lol

also on the note of tyres, at such high speeds wouldnt hard compound tyres be a good idea? I know they may not grip so well at low speeds/low temps, but your gonna be spinning them pretty fast, so heat will be abundant, plus they are unlikley to rip tear or blow out so easily as soft "racing" tyres.

*sorry 4 long post, I only check this thread a couple o times a month(if that)...so I end up with alot to say.....

;)

[mgs9]

The thing is that light cars for the most part creat there down force with spoilers, why make the car heavy that just makes it harder to accelerate and with a good spoiler you can get just as good traction as a heavy car with a good spoiler. Just look at an indy car, they are realy light but can ride at speeds of 170 mph soundly. Also i dont think a the diffrece of a few pounds will help too much at realy high speeds and if you did add more than just a few pounds, you would never get moving.

Im not trying you shoot you down or anything im just giving my opinion.

[crank throw wei]

There's no doubt that there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.Light/small motor or heavy/big motor both work (NASCARs are heavy and also go 170+).

[Spoon37]

true.

NASCAR has aerodynamic limitations enforced tho, if they wanna go faster they have to find it in the engine or transmission. this contest is great because there are no such limitations.....

:D

[Oldway]

I'am a veterian of 5 Insane Speed Runs held by NORRCA, and come race day alot of you will be in for a big surprise.
controlling a car that far away from you at ANY speed is not easy.

[studysession]

OK - I have been reading many posts on this board and I have a question for the people that are spnsoring this thing. A lot of people are thinking we drive the RC all the way around the track.

I was thinking it was just the straight away. What is it?

This stuff rocks!

[studysession]

BTW - here is what I have been working on:
http://studysession.com

[racerrandy]

This is from a post by moderator PeterV on the first page.

Join Date: 06-26-2000
Posts: 86

Vehicle speed will be measured by running the car through an electronic speed trap (likely to come from Race America), and you can use as much of the speedway as your radio range will allow to get up to speed.

Later,Randy

[crank throw wei]

My guess is most will use the turn to get up to speed,and actually use the straight for their run,then the next turn as a run-off,or slow down area.But,ya never know how people will plan it.

[Keith Dirks]

Can you use custom built motors or engines? Can you us a fuel source other then batteries or liquid fuels (gas)?

[cianhanrahan]

1. Wheel-driven vehicles only. Vehicles powered by thrust (jet, rocket, propeller, etc.) are not allowed. Turbine power is allowed only if the turbine is used to drive the wheels, not for thrust.
2. Vehicles may be powered by engine(s) or motor(s) of any number and configuration.
6. The vehicle must remain operable after its speed runs. Sacrificial motors or power systems that are inoperable after a run are not permitted.

[studysession]

How long is the straight away on the track?

[Terminator]

I am unclear as to the total length limit, is it 24" or 40" ?

[mgs9]

After considerable discussion, we've decided that the intial length rule of 24 inches will be increased to 40 inches (1016mm) to accomodate 1/5 scale cars. The overall length of the longest body from FG (Mercedes CLK) is 37 inches, so we added a few inches to allow for some custom body work.

The rule was changed to open the contest up to people that want to try running bigger cars. I don't anticipate any other changes to the rules or to the venue. Thank you to everyone for their feedback.

Thank to steve pond
mgs 8)

[rx78gp03s]

you guys think some real car company, say ferrari, would enter in this for the heck of it? or atleast partner in with another to break it together?

[AudiTT-Quattro]

you guys think some real car company, say ferrari, would enter in this for the heck of it? or atleast partner in with another to break it together?
Sure.

[crank throw wei]

Like this (http://www.fineartmodels.com/e/index.htm) one? Unfortunately,it's 1/3 scale.Prolly too big. :(

[Mike Keeney]

Man, that is SWEET!

Like this (http://www.fineartmodels.com/e/index.htm) one? Unfortunately,it's 1/3 scale.Prolly too big. :(

[crank throw wei]

That should be right up your alley Mike.Something on that order is on my docket before I die.Just have to figure what car to do,and when I can find the time.

[Mike Keeney]

I don't think even I would have the patience to do a project like that. That car could easily fetch a million dollars. But I doubt that much would be enough to get the guy to sell it. Did you see the dashboard with all the little gauges? His attention to detail is absolutely amazing.

I've got it a little easier than him. I'm designing everything from scratch.

Mike

[NotWalkinBlind]

Mike, I forget if you've told us what body you're gonna run.

[Mike Keeney]

Fiberglass.

Mike

[NotWalkinBlind]

:D There's a smart aleck everywhere ya turn these days.

What body, not body material. ;)

How would this work?
http://www.rustyiron.com/engines/sandimas00/willys.jpg

Oh, my goodness, ladies and gentlemen... Mike just sent me a pic by email:
http://my.hsonline.net/~street37/icons/willys.jpg

[Mike Keeney]

Uh, sorry. Here's an artists conceptual drawing.
http://www.nvone.com/images/Goliath.jpg
:p
:D Mike

[NotWalkinBlind]

...chuckle... OK, popsicle breath... come on... please tell us.

[Mike Keeney]

...chuckle... OK, popsicle breath... come on... please tell us.
Thought you might get a laugh outta that.

What body? Don't know. Do you think there's any real difference between any of the NHRA Funny Car bodies? They may call them Camero's or firebirds, or whatever, but in reality, they're just Funny Car bodies with a different paint scheme.

Cheers,
Mike

[mgs9]

Since we are on the body subject, do they make a Jaguar XJ220 body, i think that car looks awsome. :cool:

[NitroDad]

I think a regular body would be best, with a good chassis set up and good suspention, cause i bet that track ain't little car friendly==bounce=bounce=bounce!!!

[vsnakebytev]

Well If I had a large amount of funds, here is what I would do....

I would get a 1/4 scale car, as well as a Gas Turbine to power it! I would go for a descent size, and also modify the thrust to weight ratio! Then I would put a Batmobile body on the car! They also make after burners for the Turbines, if your a member of the AMA they are illegal to have under them in the US, but for a car, there are no little rules such as those! HAHAHA That would get you your fastest RC car! If you really wanted to get complicated and expensive, you could have the turbine hooked up to a differential, and have it actually turn a set of wheels, rather than just push the car......

just an idea!

[dadrago]

Hey if I had alot of money i would try to get the 3 horsepower moter into a gt4 and put an rb innovation supercharger on it then get a 3 speed and boost botle with exspansion chamber!!

[mgs9]

Guess what, I just barly started my car today.:D :( So far i have an aluminum 2mm rear chassi plate " It is going to have maltipule bars and plates," and the rear dive set up is well getting setup..... It may sound strange but im going to be running 2-3 eletric motors, not sure what type or how many yet, On my plans i have it all rigged up with 3 but thoes are plans.

Mgs dude.

[corvette66]

Mgs9, sound neat man. Listen to my idea.

I will be running on a carbon fiber chasis, using a hand made speed control that I developed. I will be using a nice set of Delco Fab 4 rear drive axles, a New Munson 2 turn hydrogen electric motor. Put'n out about 102,000 RPM's My trani will be a solid standard shift (hand made) this thing will be an amazing beast.

Nah i'm just fool'n. Im actually gunna stick to a stock set up, with stock bearings, wheels and rims. But I am gunna have a very odd drivetrain. I'll tell you about it later, once i master this design.

[studysession]

StevePond Will the track be treated like with salt water or something to give better traction? There will be a lot of people using dragsters and they usually treat the surface when they run. How will this be handled? :o

[NotWalkinBlind]

I've heard of tracks being treated with sugar water, but not salt water... does salt water increase traction also?

[R3VoLuTiOn]

i wouldnt think salt water increases traction, it would probablt decrease if any imo. i am pretty sure once saltwater evaporates its the salt powder left behind, so itll be like running on a dusty track.

[mgs9]

I dont think salt water would give it less traction. I dont think it would create enough dust to realy matter. I know when salt is left in water it will build and from crystals after a bit. We did an exeriment on it in like 5th grade. But that could give it traction if absorbed into small holes in the tire. I dont know if that would happen or work but its a thought. I was looking to on some sites hopping to find what they do use on the drag strips. No luck though.

[studysession]

I am not sure why I wrote salt water sorry - I forgot what I meant to write down. ;) But they put something down, I forgot what to make the ground sticky. The allows the dragsters to stick to the tarmac and they just lay into the throttle and go and not just sit there and spin the wheels.

[e_lm_70]

I am not sure why I wrote salt water sorry


It is a white cristal like salt ... but it is sugar that make sticky the track in the most simple/accesible way

e_lm_70

[studysession]

Cool -

Still want to know what StevePonds input on handling this is. I am thinking of doing some testing with an RC dragster. I have never had one before. A company may send me one for testing to see if I like it or not. If it works - I would want to know what is going to be done for this at the track in CA when we show up.

Keith H

[jnorris52]

I don't know about tracks where you run, but at the Chicagoland/ Route 66 Drag Strip, I have seen the drivers use regular bleach in "bleach boxes". After they pour the bleach in the marked off area, they lock the front brakes and do a burn out (spinning tires in the bleach solution) This heats up the tires and it's compound to make the tires "stick" better off the line. I've never seen them do anything to the racing surface other than blow the tire dust off.
Otis
" I chase my dreams today, for tomorrow may never come."

[RaceFreak]

my car 103mph

[C.J.OO]

Sure, I could bring it along. I plan on building another car, so maybe someone else can drive the HPI. ;)

MR POND I would Fly All the Way from Australia for that Opportunity And I would Not Be afraid to Put the SPANK Down on it either....*Gets on Knees In a Preyer Position*....lol... :cool: :p :rolleyes: :( :o

[studysession]

my car 103mph

What kind of car do you have?

[robertsonsr/c]

when is the date set that this is gonna happen?????????????????????????

[izzyz28]

I don't know about tracks where you run, but at the Chicagoland/ Route 66 Drag Strip, I have seen the drivers use regular bleach in "bleach boxes". After they pour the bleach in the marked off area, they lock the front brakes and do a burn out (spinning tires in the bleach solution) This heats up the tires and it's compound to make the tires "stick" better off the line. I've never seen them do anything to the racing surface other than blow the tire dust off.
Otis
" I chase my dreams today, for tomorrow may never come."

Bleach makes lots of smoke but does nothing to increase traction. Traction is increased by using "VHT" which is traction compound. VHT is very expensive and is often cut with alcohol to make it go further, though I doubt RT. 66 is skimping on anything. The VHT is sprayed on the track surface with either a garden sprayer or in RT. 66's case they use a tractor with a sprayer on the back. Usually only the first 60' or so are sprayed, but when the big boys come out to play(top fuel, funny car, outlaws) they will often spray to half track. When VHT sets up it will almost suck the shoes right off your feet. It would be interesting to try it on an R/C track but I bet there would be so much friction the cars would flip right over if they could even get moving.

[ajg]

Bleach makes lots of smoke but does nothing to increase traction. Traction is increased by using "VHT" which is traction compound. VHT is very expensive and is often cut with alcohol to make it go further, though I doubt RT. 66 is skimping on anything. The VHT is sprayed on the track surface with either a garden sprayer or in RT. 66's case they use a tractor with a sprayer on the back. Usually only the first 60' or so are sprayed, but when the big boys come out to play(top fuel, funny car, outlaws) they will often spray to half track. When VHT sets up it will almost suck the shoes right off your feet. It would be interesting to try it on an R/C track but I bet there would be so much friction the cars would flip right over if they could even get moving.

My lhs old track used to be coated with lots of vht. It was really grippy. The 1/10th touring cars had no problem with flipping or lots of friction. We didn't even brake for the turn at the end of the straight. Our cars handled great. But the micro class was pretty hard to keep them from flipping, but when we could get them setup right we could keep up with 1/10th mod (I was able to do as many laps in the same time as the third place and down in the 1/10th tc mod class while using a stock micro motor). I highly recommend it for a track though. :)

[StevePond]

I do not believe that we will be able to apply anything to the track to enhance traction. This is a real race track and I'm sure they don't want one corner of the track being real sticky and the rest without treatment. It would cause a lot of wrecks with the big cars and I'm sure they don't want to endanger any of their drivers.

[rx78gp03s]

if the weak point of one of these high speed cars is its tire, shouldn't you atleast try to redesign the wheel?
probs with tires:
the blow up at 80mph because of elasticity right?
solution?:
dont use rubber or a wheel in this case. Someone suggested this earlier, how about using tank tracks? you get more surface area with contact and you can make them out of titanium if u want. only problem is weight if its an issue right? but wouldn't u want the weight for stabibilty? this is just what i thought of a while back when i first saw this thread.
either tank treads/tracks for drive or, make a walking r/c. those who are into robots should know how this works.
my 2 pennies. no clue if they'll work but its worth a thought or try.

[Interstate]

I don't think treads would work, their odd symetry at high speeds would distort only in certain areas. Not to mention it would wiegh considerably more, and add to the complexity.

You'd probably have to do what Pond did; have someone make custom belted tires.

[studysession]

I am not using rubber at all right now. But still, a lot of high speed cars, even real life drag cars they put stuff on the track to give traction at the starting line.

[pedeman]

im sure my mini-t is gonna win... (hahaha, not even close...) good luck to all competitors! its about time that someone has come up with this... i wonder if SWAMI has heard of this yet?

[pelle_martin]

You must promise us that you will make videos of the best attempts and put them online. It is hard to imagine the speed when only reading about it. I have participated in several bicycle track speed runs and the speed looks amazing. The record in Denmark is 123km/h in average over a full 360m lap.

[CrazyPhantom]

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/news/viewrelease.html?prid=228 we should tell these ppl about the challenge.

[studysession]

Why?

[CrazyPhantom]

did you see there speed?

[rcrcman]

Steve- I have a couple of questions: what might be the size of some of the track irregularities? and also is there a minimum or maximum distance it takes to gets up to speed? also does the car have to start from a roll or still? thanks, this is fun stuff

[RS4rally1124]

i think steve needs to bring his sn lets make him

JT

[PBCRAZY]

get a jet engine from a plane and strap it up to the back of any rc racer.. easy

[Kenny T]

Vehicles must be propelled via the wheels, they can't be thrust powered. ;)

[kwong2001]

I'm just curious, does anyone know if this will be a single day or two day event. I won't be able to do much of high speed testing until I actually get to the event. Will we have time to do testing with the radar?

It'd be nice to get the last of the bugs worked out before going straight into the run.

[studysession]

I would plan on having all your testing done before you get there. JMO

[kwong2001]

Well I can do most of my testing before then, but I won't be able to most of the super high speed testing in my area. Best i could do is 80mph runs. Anything more than that, I won't have anywhere to go with the room and surface necessary. Only hope is Bremerton Raceway letting me use their track, but that's a long shot.

[studysession]

Anything is possible -

[kwong2001]

Hmm, well I sent an e-mail to them so we'll see. Dunno if they even check their e-mail...lol Hopefully they'll let me do the testing there. It's an old shutdown military base converted into a race track. The length is probably over a mile long since they flew every kind of plane there. And the surface is an absolute DREAM.

[TMS]

I don't know if this question has been asked, but will there be liability insurance required to enter the event?

[mgs9]

This is real real dumb idea but im curios if you would be allowed to do it. Would it be legal to add a crap load of helium containers all over the car to make it lighter?

[studysession]

I have a question - Can we use Gyro's to help with steering?

[ducati777]

helium won't help make the car lighter, you'll increase its mass overall... and lose traction... bad trade-off.

Don't see why gyro's wouldn't be allowed, rules are pretty open really.

[studysession]

I could probably get gyro's through sponsorship if they are allowed. It would help keep the car straight. Once I get up or around 80MPh the car becomes very hard to control.

[jocktheglide165]

so when is this again?

[BloodDemon]

Hope you all are ready to loose. If I can gather the cash for the trip. I will be bringing a 109.2V rc car with a 28lb motor. My job is rebuilding large electric mining motors. I build this baby my self.

[HiAmplidude]

Today, 2004,
there is a new line of Lehner's, the HiAMP series, and with those Lehner can make a 2250/5,
and with that you WILL spinn more than 50 000 rpm under load.

Sigurd

:D

I can't believe Lehner is making a motor series named HiAmp... They should've named it HighEfficiency or something more meaningful. High Amps just smoke unsuspecting controllers.

-HiAmp

[trailranger]

Could the car be lazer guided? $10 pen lazer and $30 kit from robotstore.com http://robotstore.com/catalog/display.asp?pid=144 could keep a car straight. And just have manual throttle and manual overide steering.

yahoo id, trailranger

[trailranger]

I'm not that rich, so putting alot of money into a an event with just a title at stake might not draw too many people into it. RCCA does gain from the event as they get a story and built up hype for it. Not only do they get a story, they will most likely do an article on each of the top performing cars, or the best enigneered ones. That is a lot of magazines sold. What would I gain from it, a ticket stub to Cali and a big credit card billl.

Just for sponsers sake, RCCA what is your current monthly circulation rate? 50,000 issues?

[Interstate]

You do know that you don't have to enter right?

You get the honor of knowing that you're the best amateur builder for speed.

[kwong2001]

I think the turn out will be pretty high. When I talked to robinson racing about their gears, it sounded like there's been A LOT of people asking to get custom gears made.

[TrickSpeed]

I'm not that rich, so putting alot of money into a an event with just a title at stake might not draw too many people into it. RCCA does gain from the event as they get a story and built up hype for it. Not only do they get a story, they will most likely do an article on each of the top performing cars, or the best enigneered ones. That is a lot of magazines sold. What would I gain from it, a ticket stub to Cali and a big credit card billl.

Just for sponsers sake, RCCA what is your current monthly circulation rate? 50,000 issues?

I doubt there will be a monetary prize, and if there is it wouldn't be near enough to even cover the cost of building a winning rig.

Besides, it costs RCCA a bunch of money too. Flying themselves and all their equipment out to cali in the summer isn't exactly the cheapest. Neither is paying to rent a track. But getting insurance to cover people running 100+ mph mini land rockets?!? yeah, not the cheapest thing for them to run either.

I think RCCA has its subscription base, and it will not drastically change just because on issue has these world speed record cars. Not many people would sign up for a whole year just for one issue. And the newsstands get what they get.

[HiAmplidude]

I think the turn out will be pretty high. When I talked to robinson racing about their gears, it sounded like there's been A LOT of people asking to get custom gears made.

For most custom cut items I've usually started with Bill at RCAlloys.com. They are very creative and have a lot of contacts which usually means you'll get your custom part cut (at a cost). Outstanding service and quality.

Some of their "custom" (one-off) parts I designed and had them do for my most insane project ended up becoming production parts for brand-name suppliers because of the results. --All in the name of the people in the hobby, I say... http://www.rcalloys.com/

For bearings, turn to BocaBearings.com . Good stuff.

Keep keepin' awn!
-HiAmp

[trailranger]

Trick, I understand the cost that RCCA pays out to host this event. Trick what I want to know is there any guarentees that say if you win an event you get 3 pages in the mag. This would greatly help out for those who are looking for sponsers to fly them and an expensive land rocket to cali. :D

[TrickSpeed]

Oh yea, the winner will definately be in the mag, but it'd probably be only a page or so. A page is plenty for a chassis shot, and body shot, and a pretty good description.

DISCLAIMER: I do not work for R/C Car Action! This is just speculation on my part, based on how they usually give magazine space for these kinds of things. SteveP is the man you need to talk to for a definate answer. Heck, he might not even know. But if you win you probably be at least mentioned in the mag.

[kwong2001]

Man, I can't stand getting my picture taken, much less my picture in a national magazine. I think i'd have a heartattack if I saw a big picture of me in the magazine...lol

[studysession]

A lot of sponsors help with the car but no the trip itself.

[kwong2001]

Hey steve, on the super nitro car, did you have to do anything special to the body posts or body itself? Like from all the downforce generated?

I'm wondering if there will be an issue with body flex or the body posts bending.

[Interstate]

You could always use some metal or carbon fiber to supposrt the posts and mounts, and glue some sheets/strips of lexal to where you think the boy will flex. But you have to keep in mind that that all adds weight, especially heavy glues.

[kwong2001]

Hmm, i was thinking more on the lines of fiberglass, but come to think of it, that might be a bit heavy. Carbon fiber would make more sense. Although, I could use a body as a mold and make the body out of fiberglass...but it'd still be heavy probably :(

Anyhoo, i'm not *terribly* worried about weight. Not so concerned with winning, just want to go fast and learn a thing or two. Besides, I have a feeling my car will weigh A LOT after I finish adding all the aluminum to stiffen that chassis.

[trailranger]

You could always use some metal or carbon fiber to supposrt the posts and mounts, and glue some sheets/strips of lexal to where you think the boy will flex. But you have to keep in mind that that all adds weight, especially heavy glues.


"Into The Wind" kite sales can get you graphite and fiberglass spars, tubes, and the knockoffs to attach them. But I think using turnbuckle ends will do fine as long they stay snug and dont pop off.

[trailranger]

Anyone interested in tossing some ideas back and forth on developing a land speed record car? Ohio State University has a full sized electric car going 300+ MPH....I assume wheels are just large Carbon Fiber disk with vulcanized rubber on the contact surface. I wonder what happends when the tread peels off like on semi trucks....ohh we have the worlds faster concrete cutter.

[trailranger]

My contrabution to speed, take 4 sheets of carbon fiber, and layer 3 sheets of tire foam in between. Gule and cut out tire doughnuts, true them and mount them to solid axles. You now have tires that will handle 40K RPM

[pinolelst]

Won't the rubber plys wear faster than the CF ones leaving you with just CF contacting the surface ??

[Interstate]

yeah, not to mention balance issues, integrity problems, and the strength of the glue.

[sphinks36]

It would be interesting if they scaled the speed of the cars or made an event where they would scale the speed. So the speed of a 1/18 scale car would be multiplied (sp) by 18 to make a 1:1 ratio.

[Interstate]

No, no it wouldn't. That's what nikko, tyco, and other non-hobby grade manufacturers do for morketing reasons. If the cars go as fast as some of their makers claim them to, no scaleing wil be necessary.

Besides, scaleing is really just a big lie to appeal to those who don't really know what's going on...

[insano]

Yea, if that was the case, you could make a little rubber band powered 1:64 scale matchbox car that could go about 900 scaled mph. That is just wrong.

[trailranger]

I was at the local slot track this past week and I've been seeing guys run 100~124MPH on a 55foot drag strip. :eek: Or to give you a ET.... 0.70seconds~.55seconds. Now that is freaking fast. I'm not a slot racer, but it is possible to spin 1 inch tires at over 100mph for a short time since I have seen it done, so it must be possible to spin 2"~3" tires at 150mph. :eek:

Ok, if RCCA approves. I am making a 100' slot car drag strip, pumping high voltage on it and using a matching voltage, but small, battery pack to continue powering the car after 100'. So how does a running a 1/10th slot dragster sound? Ever seen appliance drag racing? Table saws doing 3Omph in 50feet?

[Interstate]

Well, you have to remember air drag (resistance) increases exponentially. So (for numbers sake) if our 1/10 cars are 10 times bigger than slot cars, they would have at least 100 times more air drag provided the bodies were the same.

Same goes for rotational forces, a 3 inch tire might have 80 times the force of a 1 inch tire.

[leoboy254]

i don't know if this question has been asked, but is this event going to be shown on Inside RC or any other RC show.

[M.R. Ogle]

First off, Hi to Steve! Long time no talk!!!
I'll put up a little something for you guys to think about... I now own a company called Grand Motorsports (www.grandmotorsports.com) that makes radio control dragsters.
Our record-holding rail dragster has gone over 80 mph in just 132 feet in less than 1.6 seconds. They're areodynamic, fast, and will accomodate 18, 20 or even more cells.
So I want to make this offer... if someone wins the RC Car Action World's Fastest Car Challenge with any Grand Motorsports drag chassis, I'll give them back the cost of their GMS car PLUS $500 bucks!
(That will at least offset the cost of the plane ticket!)
Best of luck to everyone, keep up the interesting concept cars, and just GO FOR IT!!!

Mike Ogle
Grand Motorsports

[InitialVelocity]

Well, If its an Oval, a Dragster sure isnt going to get it. Thats the big problem. We dont even know WHAT we would be racing on.

[studysession]

Mike - That is a very generous offer.

For some the problem is more timing. It will be April on Friday and we are talking about an event that WAS supposed to be this summer. Some of us have to come from half way around the globe to get there. It is late in the season to try and make plans at this time for someone like myself. I personally am hoping that they anounce a place this year and have the date for next spring or summer.

When you have jobs and families it is hard to do last minute plans that involve something that is so far away. JMO ;)

[performula]

It will be more impressive to see someone hit 112mph with a $2,000 budget than another hit 115mph with a $5,000 limit.

Cost should be a factor, or there should be column for the guy that got the closest with the lowest cost.

[StevePond]

Hey Mike! Glad to see you back in the biz! I called Holly earlier. Give me a ring if we haven't already talked by the time you see this.

Studysession - we're as frustrated by the delay as anyone. We orginally had plans, with the assistance of Mike and a popular speedway in SoCal, to run the event by some time mid summer this year. The person with whom we made the arrangements for the event is no longer at the track, or at least unable to honor our agreement, so we are in the unfortunate position of finding another facility. We are in discussion with another venue but we don't want to post anything until we have a signed, sealed deal. We will leave plenty of time for everyone to make plans - us included. ;) Of course we would have preferred to run it as scheduled, and were taking steps to ensure that someone won't have a "change of heart" this time around. We're certainly sorry for the misfire, but we won't let it happen again.

[RC_Tech]

Mike, just wanted to let you know that I plan to take you up on your offer. If others do the same, I am sure you will not only get lots of orders for kits, but also for replacement parts from all the spectacular crashes!!!

Where can I get the specs on the Cobalt Drag motors (max current, max power, Kv, max rpm, etc.)?

Steve, can you at least confirm if this event will be held on a dragstrip instead of an oval?

[Toyotatogo]

Hey Mike! Glad to see you back in the biz! I called Holly earlier. Give me a ring if we haven't already talked by the time you see this.

Studysession - we're as frustrated by the delay as anyone. We orginally had plans, with the assistance of Mike and a popular speedway in SoCal, to run the event by some time mid summer this year. The person with whom we made the arrangements for the event is no longer at the track, or at least unable to honor our agreement, so we are in the unfortunate position of finding another facility. We are in discussion with another venue but we don't want to post anything until we have a signed, sealed deal. We will leave plenty of time for everyone to make plans - us included. ;) Of course we would have preferred to run it as scheduled, and were taking steps to ensure that someone won't have a "change of heart" this time around. We're certainly sorry for the misfire, but we won't let it happen again.

Heart-Breaking .... :(

I so wish we could of had it in good ole sunny cali ....

Welp, I wish you guys luck in finding a newer spot close by me ... hehe if not I'll be willing to take a road trip. Id like to meet up with you guys ..

Best idea ever though .. let's keep the door open :)

[trailranger]

First off, Hi to Steve! Long time no talk!!!
I'll put up a little something for you guys to think about... I now own a company called Grand Motorsports (www.grandmotorsports.com) that makes radio control dragsters.
Our record-holding rail dragster has gone over 80 mph in just 132 feet in less than 1.6 seconds. They're areodynamic, fast, and will accomodate 18, 20 or even more cells.
So I want to make this offer... if someone wins the RC Car Action World's Fastest Car Challenge with any Grand Motorsports drag chassis, I'll give them back the cost of their GMS car PLUS $500 bucks!
(That will at least offset the cost of the plane ticket!)
Best of luck to everyone, keep up the interesting concept cars, and just GO FOR IT!!!

Mike Ogle
Grand Motorsports

MR Mike Ogle,
It is not the cost of the car that keeps some entering, its the cost of the motor and batteries. If you were willing to build me a chasis, I would gladly buy the batteries and motors. My car needs, "D" Cell cutouts!

[crawler77]

so any updates on this?

[John Binz]

Is this going to happen?

[SerpentKing101]

going by the site, it wil take place after september 1st. no definite date or place is posted.

*crosses fingers for the event at Charlotte*

[kwong2001]

You know, honestly, RCCA would just be better off planning the event for a year from now. Summer has already started, and i'd bet all the major players have already dropped out. Even if it's 2 months from now, the turn out won't be good since people need to buy plane tickets and the only ones who can show up are those who live within driving distance of wherever the event is held.

Honestly, there's a lot of people who have invested a lot of money for the event, it'd be stupid to call the whole contest off and leave everyone hanging. Reserve the track for next year and make sure it's in writing ;)

[trailranger]

First Off, Im not ready....why....I haven't found a cost effective way to get past 100 mph. I mean spending under $500...including travel.

Second....I'm just too busy with the army sending me one way and college pulling me the other. I feel for my TC3's...they haven't seen a race track in 3 months. I'm in the process of converting to all brushless...so anyone need some motors, brushes, tote, esc's, comm sticks, a stcik battery, and some other stuff related to brushed motors.

[Always_Broken]

Well, you have to remember air drag (resistance) increases exponentially. So (for numbers sake) if our 1/10 cars are 10 times bigger than slot cars, they would have at least 100 times more air drag provided the bodies were the same.

Same goes for rotational forces, a 3 inch tire might have 80 times the force of a 1 inch tire.


Actually Air resistance increases directly until the air reaches a point where it stops flowing over the car in a linear path and becomes turbulent. then it increases exponentially and i think once a car reaches that speed will be about where it tops out. so a good idea would be to invest a little time in making your car a aeordynamic as possible to keep the resistance down and incrase the amount of speed you can gain before the air going around you car becomes turbulent.

[Neon_Dave]

Well you could always custom-make a body shaped like a big wedge and mount a large spoiler on it. Very impractical, but hey. Its an idea.

It's a bird! It's a plane! No, its an RC car with a Wedge-shaped body clocked at over 100MPH ---- Well theres something weird to imagine :)
-Dave

[PeterV]

As posted previously elsewhere...
Guys, this event will happen, planning it has just been more difficult and time-consuming than we anticipated. Or should I say "I anticipated," since this is my baby. BUT IT WILL HAPPEN, with plenty of notice. Look at it this way: you just have that much more time to build and test.

As far as the eds looking at the forums: we all wish we could spend more time on it, but the print magazines and their deadlines have to come first! And occasionally my wife and daughter like me to spend 5 minutes with them as well. The pressure! : )

I'm not saying you have no right to complain--you do. But rest assured, there WILL BE a WFRCCC!

[PeterV]

Hopefully I can update y'all with something more concrete soon!

[2.5 guy]

Man, the name's a tongue twister

[InitialVelocity]

Why not just find a dragstrip? The man who owns a dragstrip complex locally is into RC cars, and was more than happy to accomodate me so I could get some runs in.

[microrcdude]

Ok, time to put my car BACK TOGETHER, errgh. Im getting tired....i think

[ssmokey24]

i have a car hitting tripple digits :D :D :D :D :D :D

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/P5010044.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/1fb1e671.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/8cea7966.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/d9e16c1b.jpg

another supernitro

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/P1010042.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/P1010041.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/P1010040.jpg

[ssmokey24]

the bottom one hits high 90 's

[pedeman]

WOW. nice

[TimJohnson]

do you have a spot for the Landspeed run yet?

[46u]

i have a car hitting tripple digits :D :D :D :D :D :D

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/P5010044.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/1fb1e671.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/8cea7966.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/d9e16c1b.jpg

another supernitro

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/P1010042.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/P1010041.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/ssmokey24/P1010040.jpg

Do you have any documentation?

[burntslapup]

GrandMotorsports Rail - Hits 0-98 mph in 132 ft in 1.5 seconds...

and just think of the mph this thing can do in a speed run:D

[InitialVelocity]

What did you use to measure Smokey? Got Proof?

[TimJohnson]

Sorry guys i find it hard to beleive that your HPI did 100+...He has an exahast deflector and a cast pipe...........the one with the RP motor has more of a chance.......I would like to see video, and a time slip.

[trailranger]

I thought speed was a direct function of power to weight ratio? I see lots of purple, and I would guess is aluminum not Titanium. I am an electric buff, so is a cast pipe better than a lightwieght tuned carbon fiber one? Maybe I should redo my TC3 with the Novak HV Maxx and toss in a Higher KV motor. After switching from senorless to sensored, I really enjoy throttle control and breaking. I would like to use BoostCaps, 350farad capacitors. 2.5V, but they are just as expensive as Lipo systems and only good for sub 10second speed runs. But with internal resistance that low, charging is fast.

[burntslapup]

I to find it had to beleave that any of those HPI's have seen 100+mph... your right trailranger speed is a power to weight thing, that's why you see electric rails running 132ft in 1.5 seconds at 98mph using GP2200's rether then the new GP3700's... the 2200's are smaller and lighter then the 3700's... all that purple does look good and I can see he spent some money on the car it's to bad all that turned the car into a BRICK... Dude take some metal off and add some plastic and carbon fiber it'll go faster.... Trust me

[92gsr]

speed is a function of power vs. aerodynamic drag. acceleration is a function of power vs weight. acceleration is important when determining the top speed of an rc car because of space limitations. the car has a small amout of time to accelerate to top speed before it has to turn or stop. with enough space weight has no impact on top speed.

[ssmokey24]

i dont have a cam to record but here in south florida we always have drag races
and one of our best friends work for the lake placid police department and thats how we get the speed on the cars

TimJohnson the supernitro with exahast deflector and a cast pipe. is faster than the rb one it has a rb mods novamega m5 and a novamega o86 pipe the other has a rb engine and a 086 rb pipe

[rx78gp03s]

I to find it had to beleave that any of those HPI's have seen 100+mph... your right trailranger speed is a power to weight thing, that's why you see electric rails running 132ft in 1.5 seconds at 98mph using GP2200's rether then the new GP3700's... the 2200's are smaller and lighter then the 3700's... all that purple does look good and I can see he spent some money on the car it's to bad all that turned the car into a BRICK... Dude take some metal off and add some plastic and carbon fiber it'll go faster.... Trust me

that is so true, and when he says its in the triple digits, i think he's talkin bout price actually...lol