World's Fastest RC Car Challenge

[StevePond]

RC Car Action is throwing down the gauntlet! We want to see who can build the flat-out fastest RC machine on the planet. We’re keeping the rules simple, and anyone can enter. You’ve got a year to build whatever you think it’s gonna take to be the fastest, and it'll all go down at the Irwindale Speedway in Irwindale, CA (Exact date to be announced. The event will be scheduled not earlier than June 1, 2005).
• For complete rules, Click Here (http://www.rccaraction.com/rc/news/car_challenge.asp).
• See how Team Associated's Cliff Let pushed his RC10L30 to
over 110mph! Click Here (http://www.rccaraction.com/rc/articles/need_speed.asp).

[cretin]

sweet. i have seen threads over the years about "how fast is your car?" it's about time we had something like this.

[Fidelio]

rules link isn't workin for me. since i can't see the rules atm, i hope you put limits on scale in there. ;)

[StevePond]

It's up now. This is going to be awesome. The gears are turning already...

[StevePond]

FYI - there's not much in the way of rules. It gets too complicated when there are too many rules, so the size limit is anything 24 inches or less.

[ddesros2]

This is an excellent idea!! Should have Guiness Record Book people there because the current record may fall!! :D

[Fidelio]

yeah, i just wanted to make sure no one took a ford festiva, put r/c mechanisms in it, and won the contest. :p

[Vmax911]

yeah, i just wanted to make sure no one took a ford festiva, put r/c mechanisms in it, and won the contest. :p

Don't worry, a ford destiva would NOT win the contest.

:D

[Fidelio]

the rules don't specify if it has to be a standing start or if rolling (or assisted) starts are permitted. other than that, looks good and should make for some great high speed trials.

[StevePond]

It doesn't have to be a standing start or a rolling start... it's up to the driver.

[Interstate]

I wish I could enter that! Think my 85mph super nitro has a chance at anything?

[StevePond]

This is an excellent idea!! Should have Guiness Record Book people there because the current record may fall!! :D

That's for certain.

[Fidelio]

lol i'm going to find someone with an r/c jet and a release mechanism to drop a 4tec off the bottom of the plane 10ft before the trap. :p

(now i'm just giving you a hard time) :)

[Krasi_5000]

sounds like a cool thing to do. I wonder how fast the next record will be ??? Ahh the unknown hehe. We will definetly need this on tv or something.

[nis720]

Definetely keep us posted on what date you plan to do this..... I'll definetely be there to see this.

[kartrun]

Steve, When can we sign up?

[Interstate]

So steve, any plans for bringing back your super nitro with a few modifications? ( :D )Or any plans for a new project???

[biker dude 666]

do you guys think a monster truck could win? not that im going to enter but it would be cool to see a monster truck. :cool:

[howielong]

Wow sick challenge. On/off switch. 2 turn Bl motor. 24 cells. I think i said enough.

[mwcet8k]

Question. Will the speed runs be in a straight line, like full size speed record attempts? Just wondering since Irwindale Speedway is an oval track. If the plan is to run the cars on one of the straights, are the straights completely flat or do they have some banking?? What about using a drap strip?

[mwcet8k]

do you guys think a monster truck could win? not that im going to enter but it would be cool to see a monster truck. :cool:
Not a chance. Not aerodynamic enough and way too much rolling resistance.

[Interstate]

you could win the fastest monster truck award!

[Ferrari_Spyder]

so couldnt you have like 5 24" long tires in a line with gyroscopes on them and a one liter gas motorcycle engine driving all five tires?

[]-[]-[]-[]-[] = ^^^^^^^ really fast

if i had 100K id do it.

[dirtbike]

twin engine nitro tc3

[PeterV]

Vehicle speed will be measured by running the car through an electronic speed trap (likely to come from Race America), and you can use as much of the speedway as your radio range will allow to get up to speed.

I hope we see lots of creative stuff. A monster truck may not challenge Cliff Lett's 111mph record, but it sure would be cool to see a monster pushing 80mph! I'd love to see a three-wheeler in the mix, motorcycles, a Tamiya King Hauler with 100 cells in the trailer...wild stuff.

[PeterV]

...and Steve should definitely get his 100mph Super RS4 out of mothballs!

[metalry101]

LMAO, I like the idea of the King Hauler w/ 100 cells in the trailer. :D

[metalry101]

Hmm, maybe I'll have to see what I can do w/ to win the "Fastest Monster" award.

[StevePond]

So steve, any plans for bringing back your super nitro with a few modifications? ( :D )Or any plans for a new project???

Sure, I could bring it along. I plan on building another car, so maybe someone else can drive the HPI. ;)

[Interstate]

Another car?!? I so have to be on the design team!!!

Planning on any mods for the original speedster SNRS4?

[BPPSupermaxx]

I'm bringing the knight hauler. LOL.

I had already thought of something stupid like 100 cells in the traailer stuff.

I'd go for the fastest monster one. My secret though.

[Prelude14WRX]

This sounds cool but.....u gotta have a ton of money. I dont think we will see anyone under 20 there racing. :D

Id like to see the knight hauler with 100 cells!! :D

I saw the tc3 that almost pushed 100..and the other car that pushed 111. those cars were pretty freakin heavy from all the cells.

[J mAn]

I'd do it but its in CA

[Dallas]

I'd do it but its in CA

i would love to go and watch next year

[thefasttrack]

me and my freind william tried to to attemp that im sure you guys herd the storie from big1s you guys remeber him hes my brother he got kicked off because he cussed out some guy idunno?

[biker dude 666]

100 cells what are you mad? imagine how big and how many wires that would take not to mention the esc"s", like 10. but that would be cool :cool:

[Possumbot]

I think it's a sure thing this record will be taken by an electric car. This is all assuming it could knock off the record now. It's probably possible to dream up something that would do it, but you'd need a lot of luck to get it to not go boom on a high speed run.

[Interstate]

I don't think so possum; Just because the record is held by an electric doesn't mean that there isn't a nitro out there (or can be built) faster than an electric. I think it'd be easier to make an incredibly fast nitro and still have it run again.

[NPedeInsanity]

I can't wait to see the crashes :D

[rc10gtisthebest]

So if I were to enter I could have a totally custom car? Or does the vehicle have to be based on a current car?

Damn I might have to warm up the CAD program... LoL... We'll See....

-Todd

[Prelude14WRX]

I bet li-po batteries will push the speed way up for electrics.

The crashes are probably gonna be crazy.

[REVOman]

Electric?? no, Nitro?? no, ...with the weight of the batteries the electric would neeed MASSIVE gearing adjustments and a switchable transmission (hmm ideas) to move the weight to start, even if assisted. Then the Nitro, the RPMS would be a bit low i believe so the same trasmision concept comes into play. BUT, if one were to, i dunno, combine em, make a worl class top speed Hybrid, NItro to maove the weight and get up to speed, the switching to electric to kik the higher rpms needed, with maby the before mentioned trany mods. May take some money, but since i cant make to Cali, maybe someone else can try it :)

[Interstate]

I don't think that's plausible idea. Even though you'd have the electric kick in at medium-high speeds, you'd still have the engine on board, fuel, batteries, 2 servos, ESC, etc...

[REVOman]

well the fuel would run out, only use a limited amount of fuel, just enough to get up to a high speed, anyways just an idea :)

[serpent69]

dual rossi maranello engine 950r (starts to shiver) gimme 3k, and a cnc machine and i'd win! :D :rolleyes:

[Prelude14WRX]

I think u could make a high speed electric car that doesnt way a ton. U only need one motor, one servo, one reciever(all that is not much weight) Very light CF chassis..and of course li-pos, and lots of them.

[Toyotatogo]

OMG !!!!!!!!!! IS THIS FOR REAL

:eek: :eek: :eek:

This can't be for real ....... *I must be dreaming?*

[Prelude14WRX]

Well, since u live in CA...its not a dream. Its a dream for people like me who live hours and hours away.

[REVOman]

lol, drerams, yeh, im in Ohio, so im a few DAYS from Cali..lol

I think u could make a high speed electric car that doesnt way a ton. U only need one motor, one servo, one reciever(all that is not much weight) Very light CF chassis..and of course li-pos, and lots of them.

considering the track is an oval track and u can use as much as u need (or range allows) u may still want the steering, just to get as much as u can out of the space provided.

[Ryutech]

I don't think that's plausible idea. Even though you'd have the electric kick in at medium-high speeds, you'd still have the engine on board, fuel, batteries, 2 servos, ESC, etc...


Unless you make an ejection system for the engine.... :p

[crank throw wei]

This is a way cool idea!Long over due,IMO.But I have a few questions,if anyone can help:

Is it just one class,with respect to vehicles?So an MT concievably would be racing up against a rail car?

Does anyone know the size of the track(not just distance around,but end to end )?

Thanks!

[fabolousRC]

I don't think that's plausible idea. Even though you'd have the electric kick in at medium-high speeds, you'd still have the engine on board, fuel, batteries, 2 servos, ESC, etc...

Or...you can do it IMA style where the electric motor would bring the car up to speed and have a very low geared VERY HIGH RPM engine to pull the car the rest of the way..just make sure they install a one way bearing on the front gearbox so the motor wont drag all the way to top speed...

[metalry101]

Don't know if anyone else has brought this up, so I will...

K, this is happenin in Cali, RCX is happenin in Cali. How about the 2 happen at the same time, or within a day or two of each other, so those of us who really really really really want to at least witness this, if not enter something, and also go to RCX, can maybe do both? It's better for me, and many many many many other people who really would be interested because as I'm sure you know, the students among us (there are a whole lot of us) are in school in April, severely limiting our play time (yes, r/c is still considered playing:( ) Think it could happen Steve? I know I requested that RCX be moved to the summer after the first one, but this time, there are even more reasons. Many of the people who would attend RCX and hear about the speed challenge would probably show up, if nothing else, to see the horrific crashes. Showing just how fast these things can go would most certainly bring many new people into the hobby. Whaddaya think Steve?

[crank throw wei]

Or,to(I think) expound on Metalry's request,have an east coast,and a west coast challenge.Then that would leave the door open for an east meets west challenge.

1 more question I shoulda asked earlier: Are the radios impounded until race time?

[metalry101]

Ya, I like crank's idea. It would suck for all of those fans of RC out on the East coast, including you Steve :D, to have to drive or fly out to Cali to participate. I'm sure that'd make it twice as much of a pain to organize, and it'd make the results somewhat harder to verify, because of the differences in location, weather, track, etc, but still, definately a good idea.

And crank, LMAO, good one on the radios. I can't even imagine how much it would have to suck to have your nice, just completed, 125 mph r/c vehicle smack a wall at WOT because someone turned on their radio. Oooo that would suck. Geez, I'd even go so far as to suggest that they should acquire some radios from Europe (don't they use different frequencies?) so that people outside of the stadium couldn't bust out their radios to screw things up. Obviously that'd be more of a pain, especially swapping that radio gear into every vehicle, but it would probably solve any problems, unless of course those frequencies are used for other purposes stateside.

[PeterV]

The RCX tie-in is a natural, hopefully that'll work out. And there will certainly be an impound system. The rules also state you must run a fail-safe. Even RTR nitro touring cars are hitting 50mph+ these days, so I think 80mph+ cars will be common and a number cars will top 100mph--so safety is paramount.

[Frank McKinney]

Video is a must! Just to have the big crashes online hehe

This is a pretty darn good idea. I like the openness (sp?) of the rules

Peter/Steve - this may be picking nits, but I noticed in the rules there is no mention of an individual or team sponsored by a company (for example, if someone on a team is sponsored by an r/c battery company, etc.). You know it'll come up - are these people considered to be in the independent categories?

[cretin]

hmm... how about model rocket engines? or make a tc with a .15 or an .18 at each end. maybe a supercharger? i don't think an electric would have any trouble hitting speed quickly. electric dragsters run sub 1 second times (and that's only 132 feet). a custom built 6 turn drag motor and 24 cells could take a tc as fast as you'd want one to go, but not for very long. i remember reading about the insane speed run several years ago, where a guy build a mcallister tractor trailer (they used an upside down pan car chassis) and the trailer held the cells (like 28 or so i think)

[Janders]

Rockets are against the rules...There are separate classes.

Here are the rules taken from the link on the first post
*******
1. Wheel-driven vehicles only. Vehicles powered by thrust (jet, rocket, propeller, etc.) are not allowed. Turbine power is allowed only if the turbine is used to drive the wheels, not for thrust.
2. Vehicles may be powered by engine(s) or motor(s) of any number and configuration.
3. Vehicles may be any weight, with any chassis configuration and any number of wheels—but the completed vehicle may not exceed 24 inches (61cm) in length.

4. All vehicles must use commercially available FM radio gear with a functioning fail-safe system set to apply full brake in the event of signal loss or interference.
5. Vehicles are not required to look like any type of "real" car or truck, but all entries must have some type of 3-dimensional “cockpit area” with windows (clear or painted). It’s OK if your car looks like a space ship as long as it appears to have a place for a guy to sit.
6. The vehicle must remain operable after its speed runs. Sacrificial motors or power systems that are inoperable after a run are not permitted.
7. Drivers must operate their vehicles from a fixed position. Chase cars are not permitted.
8. Drivers or teams may enter as many cars as they like.

The Entrants

Entrants will be divided into three classes: Manufacturer Team, Independent Team and Individual.

MANUFACTURER TEAM: entries fielded by RC companies will run in the Manufacturer Team class.

INDEPENDANT TEAM: if the entered vehicle is the collaboration of three or more individuals operating without the support of a manufacturer, it will run in the Independent Team class. High school shop teams, university engineering departments, RC clubs ... this is your class!

INDIVIDUAL: any vehicle entered by a single person will run in the Individual class.
*********

[PeterV]

Sponsorship in the form of free equipment isn't a factor. If you (or your team) can convince manufacturers that you've got a car that will be the World's Fastest, and they give you free gear because they want their products on board, good for you.

What's important is the design and construction of the car. If you did it all yourself, you're an Individual. If the car was built by the combined efforts of the shop class, RC club members, or another group not affiliated with an RC manufacturer, it's an Independent Team car. If the car comes from a manufacturer's shop, it'll run as a Manufacturer Team car.

[sosidge]

Rockets aren't allowed.

I think it's a great idea - let's push the boundaries!

Shame it's 1/3 of the way around the world from here to reach the contest...

Electric v Nitro... Hmmmm...

Pure power, it would have to be Nitro. Most likely a weight advantage too.

Reliability/simplicity would be in the electric stable - brushless and Lipo would be very fast, that's for sure.

A healthy development budget could give much more than 125mph in my opinion - 5 horsepower in something weighing 3 kilograms isn't far-fetched... I can't do the maths, but that's A LOT of speed if you keep the drag down...

[metalry101]

Pure power, probably nitro. Pure RPM's, electric.

I was thinkin the same thing about all that power on a light car. One big problem for you forgot to mention though. Not only does the car have to slip through the air, it has to stay out of the air. With that light weight comes a tendency for the car to become a flying object upon meeting even a minor bump, unless the downforce on the thing was freakin crazy. I guess optomizing all these things is the way to win.

[dave56bug]

I hope the manufacturers get in on this, i'd love to see what they can do!

Dave.

[PeterV]

Associated is definitely on board. Hopefully Cliff will build an all-new car, but I wouldn't be surprised if he just mods his "old" car.

The best bragging rights are for the absolute fastest vehicle, but I'd really love to see the manufacturers show up with some "fun" cars as well. If we stick with Associated as our example, Cliff's 111mph L30 could be the fastest car of the day, but I bet people would be just as interested to see what an 80mph Monster GT looks like! For me, making "slow" things go fast is always more interesting than making fast things go faster.

[BPPSupermaxx]

Hmm, 100 cells on a couple motors in a Knight hauler is possible. Well maybe not 100.
I could do 32. Any more youd have to have like 4 motors. Its hard to find a motor that will not cook under that many volts.

But I donno if the aerodynamics are gonna allow it, lol.

What do you think? I think it will take off like an airplane.

[iMac]

Strange that they will hold the speed trials on a closed speedway. In my world, outrage speed and turning doesnt go hand in hand. The Thrust SSC would'nt have gone super-sonic if it needed to be able to turn also, you think? :rolleyes: Turning with a speed-record vehicle is for barely make it so you can make another run in the other direction. Usually that speed needs to be within a precentage of the other pass to be able to count etc. That is what is usually mandatory in speed trials... Out-rage speeds cant be done if need to make a high speed turn or 2.

[BPPSupermaxx]

I have two words for RCCA.

Salt Flats

[mwcet8k]

Strange that they will hold the speed trials on a closed speedway. In my world, outrage speed and turning doesnt go hand in hand. The Thrust SSC would'nt have gone super-sonic if it needed to be able to turn also, you think? :rolleyes: Turning with a speed-record vehicle is for barely make it so you can make another run in the other direction. Usually that speed needs to be within a precentage of the other pass to be able to count etc. That is what is usually mandatory in speed trials... Out-rage speeds cant be done if need to make a high speed turn or 2.

Totally agree. That track is only a half mile oval, which means the straights aren't that long. I've never been there so I don't know for sure, but it seems like there may not be enough room for the cars to really stretch their legs if they're running 100+ MPH.

[sosidge]

Been looking at their track (www.irwindalespeedway.com)

There is a lot of space on a 1/2 mile oval for an RC car - even on the 1/3 mile oval.

The straights on the half mile must be a good 200yds - probably 130 on the 1/3 mile oval.

That is a LONG way to wind up an RC car to full speed - probably as long as any supermarket car park and then a bit more.

Plus it may be compact enough to run a whole lap with your RC gear, if you stood on a tall rostrum for visibility.

The NASCAR's can average 100+ over a lap round there, other classes are 110+ - If you can build a car that will carry good speed round the turns, and then gain speed along the straight into the speedtrap, I'd say there is a lot of peak mph to be had.

[PeterV]

During the planning stages, I asked the same question about whether or not to run on the oval, and was given the same argument sosidge has made so well. It takes a fair amount of real estate to get a geared-to-the-moon 100mph car up to speed, and if all the running is done in a straight line, you'll run out of radio range quickly. The oval makes the distance more manageable. Also, the stadium will let drivers get up high to better see their cars and better reach them with their transmitters.

[tperkins]

Im just wondering, why arent thrust-powered vehicles allowed? Full scale speed records are set with cars with tubine engines, so why not r/c cars too? Just wondering, not trying to start a fight about the rules.

[crank throw wei]

You can run a turbine,it just has to drive the wheels.Not the same,I know,but.........

[metalry101]

I like the idea of the Salt Flats, but I do see PeterV's point. I didn't think of that at first, but in reality, w/ even the best radio gear, you've only got a range of about a 1/4 mile. I guess the oval probably is the best place if we're really looking for some crazy stupid spool up times. Anyways, I know the Salt Flats wouldn't work, but it'd be cool anyways. Not that I'm biased by the fact that I live within an hour or two's drive from them at all :D :D.

[Interstate]

BPPS, salt flats are exactly what they say they are. Flat lands comprised of salt. RC cars that can barely clear an M&M will NOT go fast on the salt flats, because it's salt.

When steve did his high speed run, did the airport have to shut down to make his run? Maybe find a private airport (like the ones for private aircraft only) to use their runway for the day.

[Prelude14WRX]

lol, drerams, yeh, im in Ohio, so im a few DAYS from Cali..lol



considering the track is an oval track and u can use as much as u need (or range allows) u may still want the steering, just to get as much as u can out of the space provided.

I mentioned the servo....

[PhsykoManMKAO]

twin engine nitro tc3

:p not a chance.

[Toyotatogo]

http://pic10.picturetrail.com/VOL320/1049490/3623584/42604820.jpg

Hmmmm? EV05MS into GT = ???mph lol :D I really don't know yet I just don't want to lose my truck to a wall from a mistake :confused:

Although I would love to see the look on Team Associated face when they see what I have done to their RC10GT if they haven't already seen so already.

[metalry101]

Nice truck, but I've got to know what wheels and tires those are. I need some of those for my RS4 MT.

[Combatcm]

What about a class for people with more skill than money. A class where you have to use any six cell pack and any brushed motor. To see who can make the most streamlined, lightest, and frictionless car. This would be the hardest competition.

[metalry101]

That's easy, I just won that one. 6x5 motor w/ the best GP3300's money can buy in a 540 conversion micro or a chopped 1/12 scale. That's all anyone would enter. Or maybe a few chopped Bolinks too.

[BPPSupermaxx]

I know salt flats wouldnt work, but it would be cool.

There is a military base by my house. All of the guys have nutty fast RC's and ue them at an old runway.

But radio range is a problem.

[PeterV]

On the topic of thrust-powered cars: these were ruled out for two basic reasons. First, safety. Once ignited, there's no way to shut down a rocket. Turbines are throttle-able, but you're still basically driving a torch. We will allow cars that use a turbine to spin a transmission (like the late Don Vesco's Turbinator: http://www.teamvesco.com/), which is safer and more technically interesting. That brings to reason two for the "no thrust" rule: it's too easy to go fast. The challenge won't be going fast, it'll be stopping! And with the exception of the radio gear, the cars would use very little "RC" stuff, which would be a bummer. From a magazine point of view, we're hoping The Challenge will generate some really trick cars we can do articles on, cars that will inspire readers to build their own creations. I think thrust cars would just be javelins with a rocket in the rear and a receiver under the nose cone.

[skylineman]

will jag gas be allowed?


i have another idea:
supercharged 4 stroke 120 in a super nitro rs4 with jag gas.... :eek:

[Gyro Gearloose]

Some things you aren't likely to see there: Superchargers, turbochargers or nitrous. :rolleyes:

I predict the fastest set up will be a simple one, brute horsepower(Electric or Nitro) on a pan type chassis car. Any other type of complicated drivetrain or suspension eats up power, a waste. Aerodynamics will be a huge factor also.

[skylineman]

the os 120 sc comes with a supercharger on it all ready.
just a note..............

[Gyro Gearloose]

Yes, I remember when it was introduced, way back when.

[rodmanrc]

I dont mean to sound like an ass, but what is the prize for 1 place top speed winner, I would like try it, but when its all said an done i have no interest in owning A top speeder SHO me THE MONEY please.

[rodmanrc]

to rule out 1/5 1/4 why i dont understand/ thay are r/c...... more fun to watch, more fun to wach CRASH.??????????????????????????????/

[Gyro Gearloose]

I dont mean to sound like an a$$, but what is the prize for 1 place top speed winner,

Ummmm, a plaque. :p

Not much incentive to bring in entrants from out of state, is it?

[rodmanrc]

no its not ,sounds like fun , but after spending 1500 for a speeder , an for less than 5 minute run, WUTS THE PRIZE???????????????

[rc10gtisthebest]

LOL. That's why I probably will have to skip this contest unless I get some sponsors........ :(

[PeterV]

A trophy and bragging rights are the big prizes for the moment, and all the motivation required for the manufacturers. I can't think of any manufacturer that wouldn't want the title "World's Fastest RC Car" (WFRCC) attached to their brand! There's no additional prize (at the moment) for the Independent Team and Individual classes, but if you win I'm sure you'll have no problem securing sponsorship to defend your title at the 2006 WFRCC Challenge, so that's sort of a prize. Plus you'll certainly be featured in RC Car Action as the builder of the WFRCC.

Even if there were some outrageous prize, I think the winning Independent Team and Individual will be the guys who race strictly for the glory. Isn't that what pushed guys liked Craig Breedlove to go ever faster on the salt flats? Or was there a prize involved? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know! :)

[tperkins]

Will the coverage in RCCA be like any other race coverage, with the 10 fastest times in each class? I think it would be cool to see how fast some of the other competitors were.

[rodmanrc]

sorry , in a world full of billions, sports, real car/bike racing, golf,pool,poker, just got to be a little something for the R/C man, o well ill try to go anyway.....

[Toyotatogo]

Super Nitro Electric Chassis ......

I bet $100.00 that Steve Pond uses this for a speed run project ..

[1822]

I dont mean to sound like an ass...

Too late! Definitely an ass.


what is the prize for 1 place top speed winner, I would like try it, but when its all said an done i have no interest in owning A top speeder SHO me THE MONEY please.

Just stay home if all you care about is what's in it for you. I'm sure you would be a top draw for the show, but I guess everyone will have to live without you.

[thefasttrack]

Too late! Definitely an ass.




Just stay home if all you care about is what's in it for you. I'm sure you would be a top draw for the show, but I guess everyone will have to live without you.

that was really unessesary.^
the prize for this is bragging rites anybody will tell you that thats better than any prize becuase after you win your untouchable and noone can beat that unless they spend there whole life at it

[1822]

You are right. Its totally unnecessary to come in here and tell them to be sure there's a prize waiting for you if they want you to show up.

[Craps]

Let's get real with this competition and include the rest of the country instead of some remote location in the USA. You need to get it a little closer to the middle of the country like Lowe's Motor Speedway near Charlotte, NC. This would be more convient to the rest of the country than the California Speed Challenge. Lowe's Motor Speedway would probably put up some money and promote it to the general public real heavy to help RC racing. :D :D

[Gyro Gearloose]

North Carolina is in the middle of the US?

We have a big earthquake I missed?

[Gyro Gearloose]

I would halfway have to agree, you might as well call it the CA closed course record. You'll set the world record but the odds are high it won't be the fastest car in the world(Of course the cars won't exist because you eliminated 80% of the nation before it got started). You should have thought it through and did the east west thing at least.



It will still sell lots of mags though, I'm sure. ;)

[Craps]

The entire USA racing world revolves around Charlotte, NC with about every young American racers dream is to race in NASCAR with even the California boys moving to the Charlotte, NC area.

Of course some would say it is Indianapolis, but most of those limp wristed racers would love to be one of the good ole boys of NASCAR. You don't see NASCAR driver's giving up a ride to move to a Indy Car. But even with Tony Stewart and Robbie Gordon doing the Memorial Day double, the NASCAR Charlotte race has priority over Indy when they do it.

Let's get this contest moved to the racing center of the USA in Charlotte, NC where it belongs.

[PeterV]

The Irwindale Speedway organization has already shown itself to be open to this type of event, and SoCal is practically the world epicenter for RC activity (both in terms of manufacturers/importers and enthusiast participation), so the speedway was an easy choice. And let's not be too "America-centric": as a "World's Fastest" event, some might argue that we should hold the event in Japan or another RC hot spot. No matter where we do it, a lot of people will wish it were someplace else. I think Cali will please the most people and garner the greatest number of participants.

As far as a "closed course" record, that's not quite accurate. The cars have to be driven from a fixed spot, so radio range quickly becomes a factor. I doubt any cars will be forced to slow for lack of room on the Irwindale oval, so the course is, in effect, "open".

[crank throw wei]

Well what about radio range Peter? Can you give any insite at to the use of aircraft radios,swithed to land frequency?My point is to get a higher output radio.It just seems to me more powerful radios would ultimately make a safery carand more room to open up a nitro car.

[PeterV]

Sounds good to me Crank. If Irwindale lets us drive from the camera stand (quite high above the track--see the pic of Cliff Lett perched atop it in the online article about his 111mph run), radio range should not be an issue, especially since the rules require FM gear. And if range is an issue for a car, the "must use a fail safe" rule will prevent damage to the vehicle (and people!).

Are airplane radios actually more powerful? I would think that if a radio were to be more powerful, it would be the car system, since a racetrack envireonment with 8 guys standing side by side is far more demanding on radio reception than any airplane meet I've seen. The planes get farther away, but they're in unobstructed sky.

[PeterV]

Gyro, check this out: http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/MainPage.htm (thanks Chris LaPanse). This guy went 120mph with a boat, and look how little area he used to do it. So, two conclusions: Irwindale will be plenty big enough, and HOW THE HECK DID WE LET BOAT GUYS BEAT OUR SPEED RECORD??? :D

[SerpentKing101]

heres a thought...tether cars without a string. :D but thats not exactly rc. is it...

If i had the money, id definetely enter this. i already have plans for a 1/10 and 1/18 scale screamer, just no funds for the things....i hate being a peasant.

[metalry101]

North Carolina is in the middle of the US?

We have a big earthquake I missed?

LMAO, my thoughts exactly.

As for the venue, well, if they're not gonna move RCX to somewhere in the middle of the country (my vote for the middle would have to be Denver or KC, or maybe even OKC), they probably shouldn't move the race either, since hopefully they're gonna get them tied together timewise so that those of us who want to go to both can do it in one trip. Of course I'm excited for them to move RCX (assuming it's at the same time as the race) into the summer so that I actually can go (like most people on these boards, I'm still in school in April).

Oh, and for radios, I'm thinking that maybe finding a battery company to sponsor the event and provide free AA's to everyone would be good. 12 volts will give better range than the high 10's that rechargable cells could put out.

[Gyro Gearloose]

That is one very impressive boat, PeterV! I'd find it hard to believe a car couldn't do better with the same power, getting that power to the ground is the problem.

Will electric have the edge? Possibly, with the torque characteristics of electric motors they will be hard to beat.

[DualBL]

I recall Cliff saying that he had to slow down in for the corners when he was on TechTV's The Screen Savers.
I also remember hearing that he crashed the L3, while trying to slow for the corner..
-Nick

[Chris LaPanse]

I don't know if a car could really go much faster with that same power setup. That boat was actually flying over the water with only the prop and rudder touching the water. This means it probably has less drag than a car at comparable speed. FYI-that was using a Lehner 2250/8 using a 32.170 schultze controller (32 cell, 170 amps continuous, water cooled) This setup spun the 2" prop at 47,500 rpm, producing over 3000 watts. Still, a car could probably go pretty fast on this setup, which would probably require a custom chassis, due to the fact that he was using 32 GP3300s, instead of the AA or smaller cells that the really fast cars sometimes use. ;)

Part of the reason boats go so fast is the annual SAW (straightaway) trials. Every year, the goal speed goes up by 20mph. In '01, the firs boat to go 80 did so at the SAW's, in '02, the first boat to go 100 did, and in '03, the first boat to go 120 did. This beat the record set by a .91 hydro a few years ago. This fall, the goal speed will be 140, and that boat from the video could probably do it, as it's motor, batteries, and ESC were cool after the run. That was a relatively "conservative" setup. Let's see if a car can hit 140 before a boat can :D

[ElectricThunder]

I say dual brushless motors on a pan car.:D Too bad this is all in Cali, that'd be a nice thing to see. :(

[cretin]

what i am wondering is why so many people think that a light car is the way to go. look at bonneville cars; heavy is the name of the game. weight is free downforce. downforce from wings is drag. sure since these cars (and trucks?) will have to be turning, they can't exactly use cinder blocks for ballast, but i think a featherweight pan car would be a bad idea.

kudos on the awards. their are nothing but names in a book at bonneville, and there are no shortages of people racing there.

[REVOman]

FYI-that was using a Lehner 2250/8 using a 32.170 schultze controller (32 cell, 170 amps continuous, water cooled) This setup spun the 2" prop at 47,500 rpm, producing over 3000 watts. Still, a car could probably go pretty fast on this setup

lol, i cant help but find humor in this, personally, i dont think any car is gonna go very fast usin the Boat prop :rolleyes: :p :D

[Gyro Gearloose]

ROFL! Maybe in a real heavy rain...http://img9.photobucket.com/albums/v27/lola_gt/Smilies/2f98d387.gif

[Janders]

lol@ prop car
:P

[rc10gtisthebest]

I say dual brushless motors on a pan car.:D Too bad this is all in Cali, that'd be a nice thing to see. :(

LOL, you and me both. South Florida is like cut off from everything... We always have to travel for something. :mad: :(

[rc10gtisthebest]

As far as weight goes. I think a heavier car would fair better as well. Because it wont be thrown so bad when It hits a bump. And everybody knows that Race Courses are nutorious for Cracks, Bumps, and dips.

If and when I build my High Speed car, I will try to keep it around the 10-15lbs. And a fully custom body that has less drag then ANY body pro-lines made... Should be sweet.

[crank throw wei]

cretin: I'd say you are both right AND wrong.Lemme 'splain:

You're right IF your car has the radio range to make use of the distance(like at the flats).

You're wrong IF you don't have the range with radio,or perhaps battery.Then a lighter car will get up to speed more quickly.

The radio range is still the big question mark in my mind;how to play it.I'm thinking a heavier car is the smarter way to play it too. :)

[rodmanrc]

i have an idea for the electric guys, have a battery co make your wheels and your chasse into batterys that way you can get more on your car, just a thought. might cost a little. smile

[metalry101]

I think weight could be good, but only to a certain point. Also, lack of weight can be overcome by proper distrubition of the weight that there is, and a body that can provide the right amount of downforce. Having a 25 lb vehicle will most likely eliminate any flight characteristics that it might otherwise have, but then you need that much more power to get the thing moving. Optomizing weight, downforce, distribution, suspension tuning, etc is the name of the game. Optimization is the key in every engineering project, this one isn't any different.

[rodmanrc]

i think there should be some PRIZE MONEY for this event like 1-2-and 5000 K for the top speeder. I JUST DONT SEE WHY NOT, it cost a lot of money to do anything these days let alone R/C cars, put a little money out ?? more people will GO and e c t.

[rc10gtisthebest]

Power is NOT everything for going fast. It is mostly about final Ratio, and top RPM's from the engine. But Power does indeed help ;)

[Fast T3]

is there an ST class or does my T3 count as a MT and can i come with a 10 cell 6x5 T3 and race and lose just to have fun

[Interstate]

Acutally, power does play a large role. You can have a car geared to the moon, but if you're running an HPI 15FE, nothing special will happen.

[Grant Tokumi]

I was hoping that the track was small enough to be able to make one complete lap around it to reach the top speed. So radio range and batteries do become an issue IMO. And even if you had signal at that range, don't you get some delay when you are that far out?

[Chris LaPanse]

lol, i cant help but find humor in this, personally, i dont think any car is gonna go very fast usin the Boat prop :rolleyes: :p :D
Even if it did, it would be disqualified :p
Remember the rule: "No Thrust powered vehicles" ;)

[crank throw wei]

And even if you had signal at that range, don't you get some delay when you are that far out?
Good point.I'll check mine later today.

[Speedtester]

Good point.I'll check mine later today.

The delay is so miniscule you wouldnt notice it.

[crank throw wei]

What I noticed was in a very open area,the delay was minimal.With objects such as building,trees,etc. around,the delay was pronounced.I tried this with an AM radio,which may have little bearing for our purposes.

[Grant Tokumi]

What I noticed was in a very open area,the delay was minimal.With objects such as building,trees,etc. around,the delay was pronounced.I tried this with an AM radio,which may have little bearing for our purposes.

Good to know. What I remember was when I first got started in rc, I would want to see how far it could go so I'd drive it up my narrow street with houses on both sides. As I got pretty far, maybe 80-100yds, I noticed I had some delay in my controls, so that made it difficult to turn around sometimes. I had an AM as well. So that experience kind of matches what you found today. At least its consistant. :)

[Speedtester]

Ok someone please correct me if I'm wrong but dont radio waves travel at around 186,000 miles per sec if not obstructed but anything??

[metalry101]

I don't think so. That's the speed of light, I don't think radio waves travel anywhere near that fast. I could be wrong, but I think they're a bit slower, still fast mind you, just not that fast.

Anyways, I'm thinking that signal strength may have more to do w/ the delay than the distance. Since there were a lot of objects for the signal to bounce off of, that could have weakened the signal a bit by the time it actually got to the vehicle. I'm kinda thinking that maybe Rx's need a certain strength of signal, like a specific threshhold (sp?) or something, before they react to the signal. Maybe it took that long for a strong enough signal to get to the vehicle? Just a guess really, as I don't know exactly how the radios work, but it seems like a possible solution, even if it is completely incorrect. :D

[DaFF]

Delay is really minimal, as someone said it, the radio wave travel so fast you'll need highly precise instrument to even detect it.

Don't forget that the plane guys use the same type radio that we do.

They go a lot further than we do with plane that can travel at twice the speed of most car ( not to talk about jet powered plane LoL)

If there was any sort of delay or anything like it, they would not be able to drive their plane.

So, just don't worry about range and delay, I tell ya, there's better think to think off when you try to break the 100 mph barrier !

DFF

[Gyro Gearloose]

The delay is nil almost, insignificant.

There is far more delay from the eye to the hand.;)

[StevePond]

Radio waves travel at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second) , so I would be VERY impressed if you could detect any delay from a 1/4 mile. ;)

[Craps]

Steve Pond
Do you have any kind of idea how the speed will be measured to verify it and will it have to be backed up with another run in the opposite direction like they do the big cars at the Salt Flats?

Will it be with a radar gun, measured distance through a trap of say 100 feet or is it going to be what it will run around the entire 1/2 mile track?

This makes a difference to what kind of car and set up I need to engineer and build.

This is a great idea you guys decided to do, but can't we do it this year too?

[cretin]

why would anyone want the track set up so that the radios become an issue? this a high speed challenge, not a radio challenge, right? i'd like to see the track set up to allow as close to daytona superspeedway racing as possible, meaning hammer down and never lift! we can't go run an rc bovveville, so let's let the cars run as flat out as possible.

i know it's only one class... top speed, but i hope there are some people willing to bring out some non-contenders if only for fun. like was posted earlier, i'd rather see an 80 mph monster truck than a 100 mph touring car. classes would ne nice, if not until "next year"

please, no prize money.

[DualBL]

how bout we put a kicker on the track, and go for most air?
:D
-Nick

[sofa]

Steve- This is Jason from TRX. Could you send me a PM with your email addy, I need to ask ya a question about the rules!

Thanks

[Chris LaPanse]

I would guess that it would be a two way record. That is how the boat is. Otherwise the boat record would be 122.8. Also, that negates wind or track effects on speed. The only thing that matters then is the car. Wish I had a way to get to CA, but it is too far for me :( .

[Gyro Gearloose]

Wish I had a way to get to CA, but it is too far for me

It is too far away from 90% of us, unless you happen to live on the west coast.

[ElectricThunder]

LOL, you and me both. South Florida is like cut off from everything... We always have to travel for something. :mad: :(
I know what you mean, but we get some cool things, like the air and sea show and some other things...o who am i kidding...we get NO RC STUFF!:( lol :p

[ElectricThunder]

how bout we put a kicker on the track, and go for most air?
:D
-Nick
:D I'm with him^ hehehe.... :cool:

[sosidge]

I know what you mean, but we get some cool things, like the air and sea show and some other things...o who am i kidding...we get NO RC STUFF!:( lol :p

Methinks you have the 1/10th touring world championships this year - pretty high profile.

Anyway people, stop fussing about the location of the event - I'm 8 time zones away, 13 hours flight, and I think its a great idea, and a great location. There's no race track in the world that is next door to EVERYBODY.

[cretin]

people don't want a track that's close to everybody, just one that's close to THEM.

[PeterV]

The speed trap will be very short, like ten feet, and all we care about is the maximum velocity. Not average speed over a longer distance, not an average of two or more runs.

[Chris LaPanse]

You should do a two way to negate any wind/track/hill/etc. effects so the only thing that matters is the car.

[Gyro Gearloose]

The speed trap will be very short, like ten feet, and all we care about is the maximum velocity. Not average speed over a longer distance, not an average of two or more runs.

That will be quite an unreliable way to measure, a ten mile tailwind at track level will mean just that, 10 mph added to the top end.

You don't think that's a huge variable, Peter? It's not like everyone will have the same tail or head wind, what happens when one guy gets a 20mph tailwind and the wind is down to 5mph through the traps for the next guy?

[Grant Tokumi]

I'm no expert in aerodynamics, but something tells me a 10 mph tailwind would not automatically add 10 mph to a car's top speed. Maybe in an airplane, but not in a car.

[Gyro Gearloose]

The wind at track level(ground level) will be a huge factor. And yes, a 10 mph tailwind at ground level will translate into about that speed with the car.

The number one problem at those speeds will be aerodynamic friction(wind resistance).

[crank throw wei]

Gyro Gearloose: But don't you think that it would be impossible to cover for every enviromental situation?You have to draw the line somewhere to keep things moving,and keep it interesting.And remember,if you have to go against a 10 MPH wind,most likely,so will everyone else.

[Grant Tokumi]

And yes, a 10 mph tailwind at ground level will translate into about that speed with the car.

ok. :)

[Gyro Gearloose]

If weather was consistant, crank, it would be fine, wind is rarely consistant.

Like I said, suppose the guy in front of you had just ran and had a 20mph tailwind through the traps, it's now your turn and the wind has just died down to nothing?;)

[cretin]

that's why most sanctioning bodies make you back up your run within a certain time frame in order to set a true record.

[crushed]

Steve- This is Jason from TRX. Could you send me a PM with your email addy, I need to ask ya a question about the rules!
somebodies go an idea.c'mon, you can tell me. ;) i wont tell anybody :D well... whats the idea. please tell me :(

fine... :mad:

no doughnut for you


im going to make the worlds fastest r/c car w/o your help. heres what im gonna do, im going to take a *retarded* monkey and hop it up and make *dookey* for the tranny wheels and electronics then beat the **** out of it so that it has to be **** stoned* to death before it will even blink

i wont be entering so you can try and steal my fictitious idea that i made up in 5 min. while waiting for the bell to ring. let me know if you figure out what it says (only one swear word. doughnut to the one that finds it)
p/s HALO RULES

later

[mwcet8k]

that's why most sanctioning bodies make you back up your run within a certain time frame in order to set a true record.
Exactly. Every run should require two passes in opposing directions within a certain time frame.

[cretin]

i bet this will be a learning experience for more than just the drivers and builders.

[GForce]

The speed trap will be very short, like ten feet, and all we care about is the maximum velocity. Not average speed over a longer distance, not an average of two or more runs.


Peter:

How long is the straight away before entering the 10 foot speed trap?

I remembered this is the format for IDEA speed run but instead of half-mile oval, they use a 300 foot straight away and 10 foot speed trap & the end. (total of 310 feet, start from dead stop)

Currently running a Dragmaster funny car & planning on entering the WFRRCC but may reconsider a different car (pan 10L etc....) depending on spec of the track.

When will we know the schedule? Sign up? information.

Please reply on this forum or email me. Thank You!
Looking forward entering this competiton.

[StevePond]

You don't think that's a huge variable, Peter? It's not like everyone will have the same tail or head wind, what happens when one guy gets a 20mph tailwind and the wind is down to 5mph through the traps for the next guy?

I think I can help to answer this one. I don't think this needs to turn into an uptight event where everyone is micro-analyzing everything. It's void of many rules and proceedures to avoid this very problem. This is supposed to be something where a bunch of people can go out and have a lot of fun with cars that go VERY fast. Think of it as parking lot bragging rights, with a much bigger parking lot.

If we were to try and address the issue of wind, then what would happen if the winds suddenly shift and slow you down? Do we let you do the back-up run in the same direction? What about temperature and humidity for the nitro-powered vehicles? Should you get a do-over if the temps climb 5 degrees and rob some of your horsepower? These are rhetorical questions to point out the fact that you can't control the uncontrollable. I'm sure we'll make every REASONABLE effort to give everyone a fighting chance, but the nature of this type of competition means that you're at the mercy of the elements as much as anyone else. If you get a helping hand from a tail wind, chances are everyone else will too. If you're the only one that gets it, call it a gift from God. This track is surrounded by bleachers and walls, so the extent to which anyone will benefit from an abberation in the weather is virtually non-existant.

[Gyro Gearloose]

Your right, Steve, it's your ball and you make the rules.

I just happen to think that's the easy way out of a serious unforseen problem(I think it's a crock). And to top it off, you're expecting a lot people to drop serious cash("For the glory" of being fastest.), yet you won't spend any decent resources for a suitable way to time the speeds.

I'm not trying to stir it up, I was extremely interested in reading about this, seeing the pics and drooling over the whole show.

Until your last post.:(

[Interstate]

Sounds like excuses for why a vehicle won't go any faster than anybody elses. but the weather, but the wind, wah wah wah. What do you think should be done? How are these secondary variables supposed to be fixed?

This really is for glory. What else were you expecting? A prize for 5000 bucks? A new car? Where would this come from? Think about the gumball race: these guys are in half million dollar cars racing 3000 miles, for the glory of saying they were in the gumball.

[Craps]

I think I can help to answer this one. I don't think this needs to turn into an uptight event where everyone is micro-analyzing everything. It's void of many rules and proceedures to avoid this very problem. This is supposed to be something where a bunch of people can go out and have a lot of fun with cars that go VERY fast. Think of it as parking lot bragging rights, with a much bigger parking lot.

If we were to try and address the issue of wind, then what would happen if the winds suddenly shift and slow you down? Do we let you do the back-up run in the same direction? What about temperature and humidity for the nitro-powered vehicles? Should you get a do-over if the temps climb 5 degrees and rob some of your horsepower? These are rhetorical questions to point out the fact that you can't control the uncontrollable. I'm sure we'll make every REASONABLE effort to give everyone a fighting chance, but the nature of this type of competition means that you're at the mercy of the elements as much as anyone else. If you get a helping hand from a tail wind, chances are everyone else will too. If you're the only one that gets it, call it a gift from God. This track is surrounded by bleachers and walls, so the extent to which anyone will benefit from an abberation in the weather is virtually non-existant.

For FUN!!!

Then why do we have to wait over year to do this?

Why not this June?

[DaFF]

Jizzz, I agree 100% with you, Steve:

It's a HOBBY, some ppl needs to gets a life, we are all supposed to enjoy this, not try to win big box or start whinning about the rules.

Man, that's the main reason why I don't get along very well with some race ppl, they take everything down way too serious, it then becomes BORING :rolleyes:

Steve, keep it plain and simple, just for the dummies like me.

And the more the better, so open this contest to everyone (and more LoL)

Keep-up the good job !

DFF

[StevePond]

Gyro - OK, but at the same time please understand that we're not trying to stir up any negative sentiment, I just don't think it's possible to cover EVERY scenario in which someone won't have EXACTLY the same opportunity to run the fastest possible speed. There are many things that can come up that a thousand different rules couldn't cover. It's not a cop-out or a "crock" as you put it, it's just being realistic about things that are totally out of your control. It's not a lot of extra affort to require a pass in the other direction, we just have to consider ALL aspects of implimenting another rule, good and bad.

Think about what happens if we impliment a two-way rule and you go out and run a speed of 160 mph on your second run with no detectable wind to effect the speed one way or another. But, by some twist of fate, your speed control blows and you aren't able to complete the "back up" to solidify your speed. That means that someone who ran 90 in both directions wins over you who ran 160 but you weren't able to make the back-up run. Does that mean that your car didn't go 160? Of course not, it only means that you weren't able to complete a back-up run. I think we'd rather recognize the speed of 160 because it really happened. See what I mean? For every problem you think you're solving by adding another rule, you create another because that same rule will exclude a good result, all because you were trying to eliminate a scenario that's unlikely to effect the overall outcome anyway. The K.I.S.S. principle comes to mind. ;) At least the K.I.S. part...

[StevePond]

For FUN!!!

Then why do we have to wait over year to do this?

Why not this June?

I'm sure a lot of people would like to have the time to prepare a car, and we need time to get all the logistics hammered out. This should give us and everyone else plenty of time to do whatever it is they want to do.

[mwcet8k]

Steve, I agree that the event should be kept relatively simple. However, I'm basing my recommendation of opposing runs on those of 1:1 scale speed records. I think the rule for "real" cars is that an opposing run must be made within 1 hour of the first run.

Anyway, the event should be for fun. No question about that. Obviously, the primary objective of 1:1 scale speed runs is not fun. But when you have people spending big money and when a world record is on the line, people in general will take that more seriously, even if it's radio controlled speed records we're talking about. Nothing we can do about it. That's just human nature. My .02 cents.

[wcoyote_racer]

No matter what type of drive system used (shaft, belt, direct whatever), you better make sure it's a free wheeling as possible. One is for accelleration. You can't get the top end that you want if your drive system is so tight that is actually scrubs speed while it's getting there. It will not only be about the equipment but finer details like that that wins.
I saw someone say how a blower powered car couldn't do much. Not true. I have a friend that built a hovercraft with four blowers total. It would go 100MPH over land. And it was roughly 1/8 scale size. Never had a large enough place to test it all out on water without having too many boats, etc in the way. But I think that is a moot point for the moment. Especially since we are talking can motors at this race. I wonder if any new body shapes will come out of this. As far as aerodynamic shapes go, a shark's body is the most aerodynamic shape used in the real world, but probably not the best mathematical one.

[StevePond]

*Puts on foil hat to translate* :D

[Chris LaPanse]

As far as aerodynamics, about the most aerodynamic of the RC vehicles is the current record holding boat. It has the same power system as last year when it went 102, and it gained almost 20mph from aerodynamics alone: http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/images/record_breaking_120/setup3.jpg
I'd say that that is about as aerodynamically optimized as it's going to get in RC. Also, you are right that you cannot control every variable, but the wind is easy enough to at least slightly control using a two way system. Look at every other straightaway record in the book, RC or full size, and you will see that it is two way. You should really consider this to make the competition more fair. Good luck to all that enter the competition, and I can't wait to see some videos.

[Interstate]

Hey steve, could you keep us posted as to how many people sign up for the contest, especially the team and company sign ups???

[crank throw wei]

Steve Pond: Thanks for Keeping It Simple....uh.....Sir! ;)

Will a provision be made for a rain date,do you imagine?

[StevePond]

Crank - I have to imagine we could set it up for a Saturday and save Sunday as the rain date. That's also one of the reasons for running the event in CA - it hardly ever rains in June. Not sure what the dates are going to be yet, but I'm sure as soon as it's all buttoned up, we can post that info. Good call on the rain date. ;)

[FlashLCD33]

Wow.. it's almost like Gyro wants you guys (Steve) to build a giant indoor dome with exact weather settings so nobody loses that .01 MPH.

Ok, this is suppost to be a fun event. It's about who can build a land rocket to try to beat everybody else's.. it's not like anybody is going to win 10 million dollars over the deal. Who cares if there is a small temperature difference and wind difference between runs, it's all about fun.

[StevePond]

Well, I know it's coming from the right place, wanting everyone to have a fair shake, so I don't hold it against anyone for having an opinion. We're all for making the extra effort if it's going to make a difference; I just don't have the opinion that a back-up run is a statistical necessity. In fact, it may create more confusion that it does clarity.

[crank throw wei]

Well,for what it's worth,I think a second run would be cool just because how often do you get a chance to have an oppertunity like this?Not as a back up run,just because RC is fun,and high speed RC is the (explitive deleted)! :D

[GForce]

Steve or Peter

Could you answer this for me?


How long is the straight away before entering the 10 foot speed trap?

I remembered this is the format for IDEA speed run but instead of half-mile oval, they use a 300 foot straight away and 10 foot speed trap & the end. (total of 310 feet, start from dead stop)

Currently running a Dragmaster funny car & planning on entering the WFRRCC but may reconsider a different car (pan 10L etc....) depending on spec of the track.

When will we know the schedule? Sign up? information.

Please reply on this forum or email me. Thank You!
Looking forward entering this competiton.

[KMac]

For all you rules microanalyzers, do you REALLY want to have to go both directions? Because, it is always done within a pretty tight time window and I'm predicting that a lot of these cars that will go probably 120+ mph aren't going to have happy endings after their first run and they will NOT be prepared for the second run in time, if at ALL. So do you wan't to have to throw away your first run because you created yourself a rules dilemma?

For all the guys who aren't satisfied with the rules, either start your own contest or don't show up to this one because nobody else that's there having a great time and marvelling at each other's technical achievements is going to want to hear your complaining.

[dragracer28]

How about a NTC3 + RB 28 + a 3-speed. Bet that will go about 100 :D

[cretin]

i think control of ludicrous speed will be more of an issue that merely achieving said ludicrous speed.

when it comes down to it, all that matters is what guinness requires.

[Janders]

the beer?
;)

[mwcet8k]

For all the guys who aren't satisfied with the rules, either start your own contest or don't show up to this one because nobody else that's there having a great time and marvelling at each other's technical achievements is going to want to hear your complaining.
Relax man. There's nothing wrong with constructive feedback. Especially when the event is more than a year away.

[KMac]

Constructive feedback is one thing; continuing on after the rulesmaker has clarified and re-clarified the rules is just complaining. It ruins the "spirit" of the entire contest.

[KMac]

i think control of ludicrous speed will be more of an issue that merely achieving said ludicrous speed.

when it comes down to it, all that matters is what guinness requires.


I agree wholeheartedly. I firmly believe capable cars will be hitting the wall or flipping, etc....... and self-destructing due to the sheer speeds and aerodynamics involved. I'm predicting that if a car has to take a full lap of the track to get up to speed that it won't even make it back to the speed traps to be clocked officially. (Assuming that the speed will be 120 mph+)

[Popop]

Dimensions of the track are greatly welcomed as for a pix or two of both the surface and the halls
(I could prepare a proto for that occasion if the organizers do this part of the job / See nautical SAW events for example)

I suppose that the driver has not to be the car maker
(In that case a So-cal friend of mine could drive my car)

Popop
R/C SAGA

[KMac]

Food for thought:

1. Can a nitro engine successfully drive a generator to provide the voltage & current required for an electrically powered car such that you can eliminate all the batteries?

2. Electric cars generally don't use 2-speeds as they would quit shifting towards the end of the battery cycle; BUT for this contest multiple speeds should be able to be used successfully.

3. Can a large capacity capacitor be used to either provide ALL of the power necessary to reach the top speed?--or--can one be used just to accelerate the car through the gears and batteries take over from there?--or--can it be used for the final "boost" from a battery-maintained high speed to your top speed?

[cretin]

1. sullivan makes on board charging systems for airplanes. but i disagree with the hybrid idea. to convert energy twice (fuel to electricity to motion) is inefficient. also, remember that weight isn't that big of an issue here. to a point, more weight is good. it is better to get your downforce from weight than from drag.
2. agreed
3. if a capacitor would work, i'm sure the drag racers would be using them.

[Interstate]

I thought they used their batteries like capacitors, with micro switches and such.

[Viperrgh2]

umm didnt some make an rc go 200 mph they had it on an oval track and it was attached to a rope .. does it have to go in a straight line and be able to turn on its own..

[mwcet8k]

That wasn't actually an RC car. It was just a gas powered car that was attached to a line, sort of like those model airplanes kids play with. You just start up the engine and let it go in circles until it runs out of fuel. It did go like 200 mph though.

[Giant655]

if any of you really wanted to go uptown, you could drop a jet turbine engine into an RS4, or something like that, and basically make it an engine with wheels, have a can-am/streamliner body, because when speeds get that high, its more of a design/aerodynamics thing moreso than a biggest engine wins type thing

[Interstate]

Well that'd be nice, but as it says in the rules, no thrust powered cars. Steve Pond even furthered this by proving their lower stability.

[Chris LaPanse]

Here's what I would do (if I could get to CA). Custom 1/8 scale chassis with:
64 AA cells (for light weight/space), 2x Lehner 2240 or 2250 (high turn), each driving one rear wheel DIRECTLY, standard 1/8 body with clipped wing, and a LOT of room to get up to speed. If the motors could pull 25,000 rpms under load, then it could hit (getting out the calculator here) about 160-170 mph with a power of over 5000 watts. This would be interesting to see, and you would have almost NO drivetrain losses (best part). The hardest part would be the custom chassis. I wonder if anyone will attempt something like this?

[GForce]

Is anybody using a drag car (rail, funnycar or pro stock) for this competition?

[DaFF]

Look @ this graph, this little 2240/7 Lehner motor can put out almost 1.8 KW ( 0.736 Kw = 1 hp ) under 33 volt.

Watch the torque too : more than 57 N.cm, that means a lot of torque and burns out LoL

Best of all, the efficiency is in the 93% mark, which means that this thing will get every drop (or mA for that matter) out of your battery down the road. To top it all, it means too a reliable, low temp type motor.

Rpm are in the 35 000, which is nearly half way through the rpm limit of this motor.

Now we are talking !

http://home.t-online.de/home/lehner-motoren/diagram/2240/2240-17.33v/grafik.gif

DFF

[cretin]

turbines can be used in a wheel-driven application. loach helicopter engines are used in many custom built vehicles (150 pounds and make over 300hp), and they are the power source for the millenium 2k motorcycles. the fastest one of those has been ridden is 265, which is when they ran out of airport. jay leno has one of them (along with at least one of everything else he wants). strapping a turbine to a mad force and hooking it to the three-speed for this challenge would be awesome, but perhaps a bit on the expensive side.

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

Hi,

I have one of those motors. It is not that small !

You can suck out much more power than the diagram shows. The diagram just ends at that current as Lehner cannot suck more current out of his measurement system.

We in the boating business use more power that 1800 Watts :-)

Extreme Speed Electrical Car (http://w1.877.telia.com/~u87744635/CarProjectWeb/)


Sigurd



Look @ this graph, this little 2240/7 Lehner motor can put out almost 1.8 KW ( 0.736 Kw = 1 hp ) under 33 volt.

Watch the torque too : more than 57 N.cm, that means a lot of torque and burns out LoL

Best of all, the efficiency is in the 93% mark, which means that this thing will get every drop (or mA for that matter) out of your battery down the road. To top it all, it means too a reliable, low temp type motor.

Rpm are in the 35 000, which is nearly half way through the rpm limit of this motor.

Now we are talking !

http://home.t-online.de/home/lehner-motoren/diagram/2240/2240-17.33v/grafik.gif

DFF
:cool: Extreme Speed Electrical Car (http://w1.877.telia.com/~u87744635/CarProjectWeb/)

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

A Lehner 2240 or 2250 could spinn 50 000+ rpms at full load.

I have them, and used them.
For boats. SAW.

Extreme Speed Electrical Car (http://w1.877.telia.com/~u87744635/CarProjectWeb/)


Sigurd

Here's what I would do (if I could get to CA). Custom 1/8 scale chassis with:
64 AA cells (for light weight/space), 2x Lehner 2240 or 2250 (high turn), each driving one rear wheel DIRECTLY, standard 1/8 body with clipped wing, and a LOT of room to get up to speed. If the motors could pull 25,000 rpms under load, then it could hit (getting out the calculator here) about 160-170 mph with a power of over 5000 watts. This would be interesting to see, and you would have almost NO drivetrain losses (best part). The hardest part would be the custom chassis. I wonder if anyone will attempt something like this?

[Chris LaPanse]

There would be much more load while driving a car directly (no gears) than when driving a prop directly, so you would need a 14, 15 or mabye even 16 turn motor. Besides, if it could do 160 at 25000 rpm, imagine what it could do at 50000 rpm.


Also, a 2250 DOES NOT turn 50000+ rpm under load. The 120 mph boat driven by Joerg had "only 48000 prop RPM. Still, it would be incredible to see what these cars could do.

[DCLXVI]

Hi,

I have one of those motors. It is not that small !

You can suck out much more power than the diagram shows. The diagram just ends at that current as Lehner cannot suck more current out of his measurement system.

We in the boating business use more power that 1800 Watts :-)

Extreme Speed Electrical Car (http://w1.877.telia.com/~u87744635/CarProjectWeb/)


Sigurd




:cool: Extreme Speed Electrical Car (http://w1.877.telia.com/~u87744635/CarProjectWeb/)


I will be so happy and proud if you manage to break the record! More glory for us Swedes :D

Lycka till!

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

You are well informed, LaPanse!

However, do not forget that Jörg used a 2250/7 and that was the lowest wind
to buy back in 2003. Today, 2004,
there is a new line of Lehner's, the HiAMP series, and with those Lehner can make a 2250/5,
and with that you WILL spinn more than 50 000 rpm under load.

It is awesome!

Now, 50 000 rpm is useles if you put that rpm on the wheels. You will 300 + mph with a 1:5 scale :D


Sigurd

There would be much more load while driving a car directly (no gears) than when driving a prop directly, so you would need a 14, 15 or mabye even 16 turn motor. Besides, if it could do 160 at 25000 rpm, imagine what it could do at 50000 rpm.


Also, a 2250 DOES NOT turn 50000+ rpm under load. The 120 mph boat driven by Joerg had "only 48000 prop RPM. Still, it would be incredible to see what these cars could do.
:D

[DaFF]

Lower wind, more volt is way more efficient than higher wind less volt, granted you feed those babies until they are pretty close to the rpm limit.

Don't forget as well that in a car, there is no cold water available, thus no way of cooling down the motor efficently like you guys in boat do.

The more efficient setup will run way cooler.

DFF

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

Lower wind is what I stated.
Max rpm is 50 000.

We never water cool our stuff when racing high speed SAW.



Sigurd

Lower wind, more volt is way more efficient than higher wind less volt, granted you feed those babies until they are pretty close to the rpm limit.

Don't forget as well that in a car, there is no cold water available, thus no way of cooling down the motor efficently like you guys in boat do.

The more efficient setup will run way cooler.

DFF

[DaFF]

Sorry, I am reading again my last statement and I screwed-up !

Contrary to most believe,

HIGHER wind ( or less Kv number if you wish) running under more volt is way more efficient than LOWER wind ( or higher Kv number ) with less volt, granted you feed those babies until they are pretty close to the rpm limit.

There was someone called Optimaman ( our BL guru !! ) that was explaining this in plain english.

"From Optimaman:

Biggest misconception of brushless...MUST READ BEFORE BUYING ANOTHER MOTOR


"I believe the biggest misconception in brushless motors is that "higher Kv is faster".

Yes, it's faster given the same voltage, but if you have the ability to mix and match your cells to alter voltage, you can get every motor to rev to the physical limits of the motor (the rotor breaking apart due to centripetal force).

So, you can get a slow motor to go the same RPM as a "fast" motor.

Generally "slower" motors are more efficient also so you will build up less heat which means higher efficiency - longer battery and magnet life.

Now, let's say you get a 6000 rpm/volt motor vs. 3000 rpm/volt motor. You would have to put 2x the voltage on the slow motor to get the same rpm.... but the 6000 rpm motor needs 2x the amp draw to get the same torque as the slower motor.

Because you need 2x the amp, that means you need two times the capacity battery pack...and a little more due to the fact it's LESS efficient!!!

SO, for brushless, slower motors (to a point) are more powerful because they are more efficient.

Once again, here I go again... a brushless motor is only as powerful as it is able to dissipate heat. If you put 1000 watts into a motor, and it's 80% efficient, you've got a 200 watt soldering iron - if it can't dissipate the heat fast enough, you'll destroy the motor.

If you put 1000 watts into a motor that's 90% efficient, you only need to dissipate 100 watts... So, let's put 2000 watts into this motor - at 10% loss, you're losing 200 watts to heat. Of course I'm simplifying and not mentioning other parameters... but I'm doing it do illustrate a point here.

See, you want to get the MOST efficient motor possible and simply raise the voltage to get the speed you want.

So, if you want to buy your next BL motor, go slower and higher voltage."

Read this thread:

http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160008

DFF

[Interstate]

DFF, that does make sense, but if you have the less efficient motor running on the same amount of cells (suppose that our cars have reached their maximum capacity for cells) as the more efficient motor, the less efficient motor will be spinning faster, correct?

[DaFF]

You are correct.

But usually, the number of cells is limited by the size of the chassis.

For this, you have two options:

1- Obviously a longer chassis !

2- Use of Lipo.

If you read what Optimaman was saying, you want to shoot for the higher voltage, less Kv, more efficient motor.

Since Lipo are 3.7 volt instead of 1.2 volt each and are way smaller, it is easy to understand the reason why Brushless + lipo is a killer setup.

DFF

[Interstate]

I was not aware that lipos were 3.7volts! But I still disagree that a motor with a higher RPM per volt rating would be the better option for this purpose. Why? Because these cars aaren't going to be doing a 30 min. main. They will simply be doing a high speed run. So if you've already got the torque, why not go for more revs then?

[Maseeh]

Hey Steve, I am going to be entering this event because around the time it is taking place, My family is heading towards Los angeles. I want to enter my Stock Rs4 3 Evo, Which I know will not be beating any record. Would I look like a fool and a complete "Newbie" to bring it down there and have some fun with it?
Are is this for serious racers only, I hope to see ya there, Please let me know!

[Interstate]

It'd be a nice promo for HPI at least; you could get a true speed of an absolutely stock RS4 3Evo. Email HPI, see if they'll send you some freebies for promoting them.

[Maseeh]

Alright
Of course I will be in the individual group
Interstate will you be running in this?
I was thinking about purchasing a engine, but I thought about it. I would just like to enter it bone stock, I will call Hpi tomorrow, Not really for promotions.

[Chris LaPanse]

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I was suggesting using a high turn motor that would only turn 25000 rpm under load (32-36 cells) and use it's higher torque and greater efficiency to DIRECTLY (no diff, no tranny, no spur, just motor-axle-wheel) turn the wheels. Also, Joerg's boat WAS running water cooling-to the ESC. However, you are right in that there are no water cooled motors. I think the biggest problem with getting these things (electric ones anyway) to go fast is the ESC. The boat guys burn up water cooled controllers all the time at SAWS. There is a big cloud of smoke, and you're screwed. Now, this would be even easier to do without water cooling. Basically, the motors will be able to handle MUCH more power/current than the ESC's, so I think they will be the biggest limiting factor. Maybe some people will even run parallel ESC's-two for each motor. It will be interesting to see what happens this year with the cars. Who knows? This might turn into am annual event like the LA SAWS for boats. That would be incredible; to see boats and cars competing for the records. Finally, what will be very funny is if the boat record for RC surpass the full size prop powered boat record (205.494 mph): http://www.historylink.org/hl2/images/freei03.jpg
In the past 4 years, the RC record has gone up at a rate so that, if it continues, it will surpass the full size record in 5 or 6 years. Cars still have a lot longer to go. ;)

[Fastcar]

G Force, you will see some drag cars... mostly funny cars becasue of the length rule that counts out rails..

[Spoon37]

This is a cool idea..... I dont think I'll be making it tho ...from the UK Cali is a bit of a drive....lol

fastest monster would be interesting, problem is ideally a stable high speed monster would be easily over 24" a stocker TXT is 22" long.

but a monster can take alot of cells and can have the gearing to suit high speed. Its probably been mentioned as I havenmt taken the time to read the whole post, but twin motors does NOT mean 2x top speed - in fact top speed is rarely better than 1 motor, the difference is twice the torque means you get there alot faster, if you are allowed a run up/rolling start then a single motor would be better. the only exception is that with 2x the torque acting one one spur you can gear up quit liberally for more speed.

plus with a good BL motor and a heap load of cells crammed into a slammed TXT would work nicely - it would proabaly need the cells to be at least as low as the axles tho.....

I just cant get my head round the aerodynamic drag issue, the TXT tranny is too tall, so you could use an E-maxx 2 speed(better gearing for high speed too, and more adjustable due to changable spurs), but the E-trans is heavy. but evene so the trans would stick up - maybe if the 'cockpit' area was set over this it would work?? it'd probably look like a car out of the video game "rollcage" tho.

I know I am normally an advocate of the wild dagger when it comes to MT's and whilst they are low and can take 2 motors at a light wieght the gearing is just not adjustable enough to do much more than about 50+, plus it driveshafts are weak.....then again no one has ever done a dual BL dagger to my knowledge, I'm sure one with enough RPM might propel it to incredible speed..... :cool:

then again the schumacher XTR-3 will do 80(ish) MPH from its light rwd chassis and big block w/ 3 speed.....how fast could it go with a better(read higher RPM) motor and custom high speed gearing?

hmm you got me thinkin now....lol:D

oh and BTW chris lapense: there are water cooled motors, I have seen water cooled 800-900 size motors for boats of course - however they are not the sort of motor that would reach the sort of speed we would need.....they actually arent all that fast which kinda begs the question why bother water cooling them......they wont get all that hot when running, there just wouldnt be air flowing over them when enclosed on a boat.....

;)

[Chris LaPanse]

Let me make myself clearer. There ARE watercooled motors, just not at the SAWS. What that line in my previous post should read is "there are no watercooled motors being used at the SAWS. Also, i've seen a modded Stampede (http://www.fdc.arizona.edu/drennen/stampede/download4.cfm?filename=SpeedTrials-II&bitrate=384) do 60, and i've heard of one doing 70. However, the MT class will certainly be interesting. :D

[Interstate]

Maseeh, If my schedule can fit it in, and more importantly, my parents let me go. I've got a super nitro that if I put in a new crankshaft, and some gearing, I could get about 80MPH. I'd like to go just to see the vehicles, and perhaps show off mine; i.e. the only thing stock are the ball bearings, most screws, and upper turnbuckles. I'd like to see how unique my super is compared to some of the others... P{retty sure I'm the only one with this engine. :D

[Jaste]

You could do it at IMS (indianapolis motor speedway). the front straight is definatly large enough, population wise it is roughly in the center of the US.
They would probably put up some money for publicity purposes too.

[cretin]

careful. people will start to comment on the location and sooner or later, they'll have to delete posts if not the entire thread.

[KMac]

You could do it at IMS (indianapolis motor speedway). the front straight is definatly large enough, population wise it is roughly in the center of the US.
They would probably put up some money for publicity purposes too.


You wouldn't like the result when you hit the yard of bricks at the start/finish line. :eek: :(

[2005Mustang]

I didn't see any rule for getting assitance from another vehicle? So I guess towing your Kyosho USA-1 down the road with a Porsche doing 200MPH would be ok :D

[RacerGordo]

that would break the size requirement... and the cost issue is up there too

[CENthasizer]

Ok, i dont have a problem with the Cali location (i live in Cal :)) but looking at the article on "the need for speed" with the TC3 and the 111mph L30, i would like to quote

"Team Associated’s objectives with this car were to break through the 100mph barrier and to possibly set a new overall RC world speed record. As expected, the Team met its objectives by putting in back-to-back 100mph-plus runs. It wasn’t until the car blazed past the radar at 111mph and wiped out on the large, banked corner that they decided to call it a day. After the run, Cliff reported that the motor still had plenty of revs left and could have gone even faster if space had allowed."

IF SPACE HAD ALLOWED, this too was at the Irwindal speed way right? I just wanted to bring that up not to cause trouble, but these guys who were trying to set a speed record could have gone even faster, if space had allowed.

[DualBL]

EXACTLY.
that's what I had said in an earlier post, but no one seemed to notice..
-Nick

[Soupisgoodfood]

Here's my idea. Get 8 7T modifieds, mount some skinny, pizza-cutter-like wheels directly on the end, set them up in 2 groups of 4 (like a train carriage) :D. You'd need to make custom suspension of course to allow room for the motor.

The unsprung weight shouldn't be too much of a problem considering it's just straight line speed that's important.

My only concern is the punishment the motors would take. Electric motors are fairly robust things, but do you think it would be too much stress on the bearings etc? Perhaps using more convential capped foams would be better (but more drag).

As far as electrics. Perhaps 2 ESCs, each with 32 cells. :confused:

[Interstate]

I think someone already said foams can't handle triple digit speeds.

[Soupisgoodfood]

"Jaco Caps Tires" --> http://www.rccaraction.com/articles/need_speed2.asp
I thought capped tires were basicaly foams with rubber over the top? Or are they more like a slick with a foam insert? Hmmm... When you put it like that, they sound pretty much the same. :confused:

[Chris LaPanse]

Ok, i dont have a problem with the Cali location (i live in Cal :)) but looking at the article on "the need for speed" with the TC3 and the 111mph L30, i would like to quote

"Team Associated’s objectives with this car were to break through the 100mph barrier and to possibly set a new overall RC world speed record. As expected, the Team met its objectives by putting in back-to-back 100mph-plus runs. It wasn’t until the car blazed past the radar at 111mph and wiped out on the large, banked corner that they decided to call it a day. After the run, Cliff reported that the motor still had plenty of revs left and could have gone even faster if space had allowed."

IF SPACE HAD ALLOWED, this too was at the Irwindal speed way right? I just wanted to bring that up not to cause trouble, but these guys who were trying to set a speed record could have gone even faster, if space had allowed.

Isn't this the same location where some full size cars do more than 200mph? Then how would 111 mph be too fast for the space? I think that the problem was radio range, rather than space, which means that it does not matter how large of an area you have if it runs out of radio range before it runs out of area. If it is a space problem, then I don't see why.

[Soupisgoodfood]

I'm not familiar with Lithium Polymer, other than I know it's lightweight and moldable, and that my iPod has one ;). But I know that LiIon has a high internal resistance, which are why they aren't used in RC car racing--they blow up. Do LiPo have a lower internal resistance than LiIon, lower than NiCad? Has anyone considered this?

[DaFF]

Wrong.

Lithium Ion can be used for r/c car.

As a matter of fact, Konion released 2 month ago some Lithium Ion that look like regular cells ( hence round with an aluminum enclosure ) that could be used without problems in cars. Because of the alum enclosure and some kind of internal over pressure valve, they are explosion proof !

Read the specs here ( sorry, in German, but you can get the idea...)

http://www.elektromodellflug.de/konion-test.htm

AS far as internal resistance goes, you are correct in saying the Lithium Polymer have a lower resistance than Lithium Ion, Nicad and Nimh resistance being lower than any Lithium cells.

DFF

[DualBL]

about the capped tires.
from what I understand, there's actually material that's woven on the inside of the rubber, and that prevents the tire from ballooning. I have no idea, but that's what I'm guessing.
-Nick

[Soupisgoodfood]

Thanks DaFF. Interesting.

Still, has anyone acctually tried them in a high-power set-up like this?

[Soupisgoodfood]

A refinement of my original idea. Dump the 8 motors and use 4 brushless, directly connected to 4 front diff housings of a shaft-driven on-road touring car.
All wheel steering: At high speeds the rear end will steer in the same direction (but not as much), and at low speeds it would go the opposite for more steering.

I whipped up an image below from an old 3D modeling project I did (an RS4 Pro ). :o

[H-Trainer]

DFF, those Lithium Ion cells made by Kontronik look interesting, but they were tested with up to 18 A current and can only handle 22 A temporarily. I'd say that's too little current for powerful brushless motors! Pushed NiMH cells can provide up to 100 A, I've heard, and modern brushless motors can use that power (2+ kW).
So, I'd say you'd get a high voltage but not enough current. I don't think you'd need more than 36 V or so, but you'd need high current.

Anyhow, I hope we'll get good coverage with pictures, stories and video, so we get entertained you this speed challenge :)

[cretin]

that looks nice, but a bit over 24". why not just use 2 brushless on each of two diff/suspension housings? run the motors towards the middle of the chassis, and pile batteries all around them. if you were really nuts, you could solder/weld the cells together and make them the chassis, or at least a stressed member

[DaFF]

Hey Trainer, long time no see Hu ?

Anyway, yes, of course they pump out only 22 A max, but like for any Lithium cell, you need to hook them in parrallel to increase max Amp draw !!!

Like a pack of 8 cells, 4S2P type - 4 cells in serie x 2 in parrallel, is sort of what I am using in my 1/10 scale brushless.

With this setup, you can have 14.8 volt and 44 Amp max, that's close to 700 Watt, which is enough for powering a highspeed 1/10 sedan.

I think you get the idea !

DFF

[Soupisgoodfood]

I bit long at the moment, but I hear they're changing the max length to include 1/5 and 1/4 scale cars.

The idea with the 8 wheels is stability and distribution of load I guess. Plus it's less likey to crash and burn if a tire blows apart ;) Plus a long, heavy car has less chance of lifting off, which means it can be designed with less drag as you don't need to generate as much downforce.

Since current might be an issue, I though it would be best to use more smaller, high-rpm motors, then they can share the load, and hopefully not blow the ESCs.

[Mike Keeney]

My 2¢ fwiw. :p

The openness of the contest is attractive. I don't see any need for requiring a second pass because the rules clearly state the car must survive the run. Suicide runs are a DQ. All out speed is the goal and I think every contestant should have the opportunity to make multiple passes. This would be fair to the folks who lay down a good number but lose control at the end and crash. I think it would be fair to limit the number of official passes (perhaps 3) a car can make. Best time on any run is what you're scored on. After all, it's only about speed.

As far as the question of enough room to make a really high speed run, I suppose you could start somewhere between turn 3 and 4 and trap about a third of the way down the front straight. That should give the fastest cars enough room to get slowed down enough to make a controllable entry into turn 1.

Where I have the problem is with the radar gun. It is impossible to constrain a radar gun to measure within a 10' length. If you're going to measure over a specific distance the only way to accurately do it is by measuring the time it takes to traverse the 10'. Pulling the trigger on a radar gun would produce inconsistant results. Personally, I'd want to be measured at the last ¼" before stepping out of the box.

Minor point. 200mph on a short track? Ain't gonna happen. 100+, sure, but 200 is hard to do, even on a superspeedway.

I'm looking forward to this project. If I can get it together I'll be bringing a fully blown (for real), fire breathing, nitro burning, ground pounding, V8, funny car.

I'm so looking forward to this.

Mike

[Grant Tokumi]

I'm assuming they will be using something more precise than a radar gun. I think rc dragsters have a unit they can use to track top speed as it passes the finish line based on time between a given distance.

[Combatcm]

Make your suicide 150mph rocket car, make it blow up at the end, put the video of it on the internet, brag.

[CENthasizer]

Ok, Ok, I keep hearing all this talk about how electric is going to win, blah blah blah, where are all the nitro junkies out there? Stick up for us! I would, but i'm a new member to here and to nitro...sorry.

What i am waiting for is someone to make a V-2 nitro engine, i dont actually know if that would kick ass, or just suck up more fuel.
Anyway let me know what you guys think!

[Dragger]

Sorry man electric is for speed, I think. And I don't see what others do with brushless, brushed motors are just as good.

[Dragger]

BTW, does tire size matter? And i'm putting a Sirio .21 in my Type SS, probably 160-170MPH, j/k.

[rpmmaxxed]

larger tires have the same effect as gearing up.

[crank throw wei]

Ok, Ok, I keep hearing all this talk about how electric is going to win, blah blah blah, where are all the nitro junkies out there? Stick up for us!
Well I think nitro has an equal chance of winning, but the BLs have done a lot to level the playing field.A nitro set up will be complex because of transmission and cooling issues.BLs because of battery issues.I think it's a very tough call,at this point,who has the advantage.I own both,but personally,I'm "imagineering" a nitro.

[Speedtester]

Sorry man electric is for speed, I think. And I don't see what others do with brushless, brushed motors are just as good.


I hope your joking about brushed motor's being just as good.

[Dragger]

A 2 turn for speed maybe, but a 12 turn brushless is the same as a 10 turn brushed.

[racerrandy]

Everyone is always comparing bl's to roar legal brushed motors. If you use the same neo mags,thick machined cans,special arms and things like that, the olny advantage bl's have is the maintenence. And for the speed record guys will not be worried about maintenence. You are gonna see some cool things at this event.

[thefasttrack]

My 2¢ fwiw. :p

I'm looking forward to this project. If I can get it together I'll be bringing a fully blown (for real), fire breathing, nitro burning, ground pounding, V8, funny car.

I'm so looking forward to this.

Mike

yah a conely pricision motor seen them not a big deal but are soooo cool

[thefasttrack]

heres a picture

[Interstate]

They also make a supercharged V10. For 10 thousand dollars.

[Mike Keeney]

This is somewhat close to what I would bring. The current plan is to design a set of dual cam OHV heads. Perhaps a hemi cc if there's room.

These engines already rap up to around 8K with 1" diameter pistons. I'm in the process of designing a new motor that will create some real horsepower. Hopefully everything will be done by the time the contest starts.

One of the design goals is to hold the price of the engine to around $3-$4K retail. If we can do that then I think we might have something we can sell. If it gets much higher than that I don't think we would have much of a market.

I want to offer a complete package in either kit or fully assembled. Everything depends on cost. If this works I would like to develop several types of models, cars, funny cars, dragsters, monster trucks, etc.

I looked at the Conley website. He does awesome work. The Cobra is sweet.
It looks as if our engine is considerably larger than the Conley one though.

Cheers,
Mike

http://www.silvestrienterprises.com/Blown%20V8.jpg