Kinda rules out 1/5 and 1/4 scales...

[BPPSupermaxx]

I was planning on a 1/5 scale....but they are 3 ft. Thats not fair.

[PeterV]

Yes, we know, we debated that one. But we decided to go with a size limit that would make the cars "1/10-ish". But I'll tell you what, I bet a 1/5 or 1/4 scale wouldn't be the fastest anyway. Too heavy, and too much frontal area. Sure, the size gives you plenty of room to bolt in a big engine (or two!), but it'll be much cheaper and easier to achive similar power to weight ratios with a smaller car--with less frontal area to boot.

[Chris LaPanse]

I've seen a 1/4 electric car do 88mph on 24 cells and BL. This took up a little less than half the chassis. Now, imagine what you could do with 48-64 cells and twin BL. :eek:
You could borrow the setup from the world's fastest boat, and put in 2 of them. (lehner 1950, not sure what turn, on 32 cells) This drove a 3-foot boat to 120.7 mph by spinning a 2" prop at 47,500 rpm. Now think what two of those would do for an electric 1/5 or 1/4 :D

[PeterV]

Well, shows what I know! Maybe I should just delete my post... :o

[moep]

I've never driven or owned a 1/5 scale car, but I think that they'd be far faster than any 1/10-ish car.

The size, the traction... and the weight. Just look at what happened when Steve's Super-Nitro hit a bump and got some air under it's chassis... houston, we have a lift off.

I expect the same thing to happen to all other light and overpowered cars... you could fight that with a sleek 1:8 Scale On-Road Body that has gobs of Downforce, but as soon as the car hits a bump, the ground-effect sets in and the car will lift off. Just like it happens to those Hydro-Powerboats.

I guess 1/5 scale wouldn't have such problems due to their weight and suspension-travel.

Two soup can sized Lehner BL-Motors (2xxx series), each running on 32 cells would give the car plenty of power and speed... but the car still wouldn't handle like a Mini-T with a .27 big-block in it.

The whole "Speed-Challenge" is a very cool idea, way to go RCCA.
One week ago, I was peeking at the SAW-Contests for Model-Boats and was wondering why nobody does the same thing with RC-Cars.

[Chris LaPanse]

Oh- and by the way, I gave a little wrong info by mistake- it was a 2250 motor, not a 1950 :o
Still, imagine what two of them could do for a 1/5 car if one could do this (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/Videos/Joerg_LA_SAW_2003.wmv) to a 3' boat :D

[BPPSupermaxx]

I was wanting one of these...

http://www.finedesignrc.com/cars.asp

Oh well...

[Toyotatogo]

I was wanting one of these...

http://www.finedesignrc.com/cars.asp

Oh well...

One *used* exactly the same model sold on www.eBay.com for $500.00 a week ago....

[rodmanrc]

what do you get when you cross KTM with a 1/5 car/// ?

[Chris LaPanse]

Imagine what that Lauterbacher would do with two of these on board and 64 cells :D
http://www.finedesignrc.com/motors/lehner2280.jpg

[BPPSupermaxx]

Thats what I was going to do. But Oh well...

[sosidge]

Why not just fit that power system in a custom, 60cm long chassis? You can custom build a heavy car with lots of cells without having to stretch it to 1/5th scale dimensions.

PS I wouldn't go the heavy route... more inertia when accelerating, more rolling resistance once moving. Build a car with suspension/aerodynamics to suit the track if you're worried about bumps.

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

Hello,

I think that it is a great thing to have this event!

With great disappointment I read that there is a very low max length of the car. Only 61 cm! This will rule out the fastest cars! No doubt about it.
For ex, This will rule out the 1:5 scale cars!

Is this competiton only for 1:8, 1:10 and smaller cars???

My car that I am designing right now is around the same size as a 1:5 scale rc car.

I do not mind restricting the size, but why rule out such a polular size as 1:5 scale (and 1:4 scale) rc cars?

I suggest that you change the rules to incorporate normal rc car sizes like 1:4 and 1:5.

Please comment on this.
Thanks.


Regards,
Sigurd Ruschkowski
Sweden

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

PeterV,

to think that a smaller car would be slower than a smaller car is not correct.

Look at real cars, look at real boats, real planes.

Look at rc boats! Smaller boats go slower.

I have been competing at the LASAW (where the 120 mph record was) for two years, and larger boats are faster than smaller boats.

You need the power that fits in a large car to be able to go extremely fast!
One cannot change the rules of physics.

I suggest that you change the rules to include 1:5 and 1:4 scale cars.
Thanks.


Sigurd

Yes, we know, we debated that one. But we decided to go with a size limit that would make the cars "1/10-ish". But I'll tell you what, I bet a 1/5 or 1/4 scale wouldn't be the fastest anyway. Too heavy, and too much frontal area. Sure, the size gives you plenty of room to bolt in a big engine (or two!), but it'll be much cheaper and easier to achive similar power to weight ratios with a smaller car--with less frontal area to boot.

[DaFF]

Sigurd,

Nice project you got there...

Unfortunelately, even so the larger car might be faster, there is one thing for certain: as the lenght of the car increase, the price of the projects increase as well.

To my opinion and since there is as well individuals (read non-sponsored, limited fund ppl) entering this challenge, it is wise to keep the lenght of the car relatively short in order to give everyone a fair chance to win.

Anyway, I am not here to give you a hard time, I hope you will enter the challenge, one way or the other.

The more competitor, the higher the interest will be.

Good luck in your quest for speed.

DFF

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

Daff,
yes, the price of the project increases with its size, but I do not think it is proportional.


Money rules. With or without any size limitations.

Let's say that we limit ourselves to 1:10 scale.
No chance is this gonna be "fair": some people have more money than others and could design a whole new chassies and a whole new body, maybe have a factory make a special motor with a special magnet and a special wind!
How about batteries?
More money can buy better batteries. Some boat people buy 1000 batteries and select out the best!
How about a specialy made ESC? Money can do that!
It happens in the rc boat business.

Super light materials? Yes.

Everyone has a limited fund - be it individual or sponsored.

Each individual has a different limited fund.

If there is a 61 cm limit I doubt I will be there.


Sigurd

[DaFF]

I understand what you are saying, but let's take an example:

I am classified as an individual in the challenge with a 1000 $ budget
You are a sponsored team with 10 000 $ budget



1- Let's say the rules allows the 1/5 scale car:

With 1000 Euro, there is no way for me to have a 1/5 scale that will even touch the 100 mph mark.

On the other hand, you'll be able to built a way over 130 mph 1/5 scale.

Big difference here, no way for me to beat you.



2- Let's say the rules allows no more than 1/10 scale

With 1000 Euro, I am sure I can build a 1/10 car that can go over the 110 mph mark.

On your side, you can do whatever you want, I am nearly sure you will have a hard time to go pass the 125-130 mph mark.

Smaller performance difference here !

I guess if could even be possible that I beat you on a 1/10 scale limit, even so our budgets are widely spread :) ( or at least, I can think so ! )



Anyway, I hope you'll be able to enter the challenge and wish you good luck in your project.

DFF

[Chris LaPanse]

Yes, but just because the rules would allow it wouldn't mean that you would have to use it. Using your reasoning, you would have a 110-115mph 1/10 car, and they would have a 135mph 1/5 car. Not as big of a difference anymore. Also, they should at least have a class that allows 1/5 scale cars. Finally, what if someone did bring a 1/5 car and ran it while everyone else was taking a break, they would still get the world record. (as long as it went fast eough) It might not be included in the competition, but the Guiness World Record only specifies a "model car that is controlled by a remote, wireless device". This includes 1/5 scale. Therefore, 1/5 should be allowed in this competition.

[Sigurd Ruschkow]

Daff,

as I see it the problem is that the Team will beat you anyway.

Let's say we raise the sum to 2000 USD (or Euros). You could then build a darn fast 1:5th scale car,
and I think that you will beat the Team's 10 000 USD 1:10 scale car.

2000 USD is a minimum I think that one has to spend.

I have been to LA several times racing RC boats, and the travel expenses are
usuall 2000+ USD each year.
With that cost,
there is little reason for me to spend only 1000 USD on the car when the travelling cost is so huge.


Chris LaPanse.
I agree with you. 1:5th scale should be allowed!
Are we racing rc cars or are we racing only 1:10 scale???!!!



Sigurd

Yes, but just because the rules would allow it wouldn't mean that you would have to use it. Using your reasoning, you would have a 110-115mph 1/10 car, and they would have a 135mph 1/5 car. Not as big of a difference anymore. Also, they should at least have a class that allows 1/5 scale cars. Finally, what if someone did bring a 1/5 car and ran it while everyone else was taking a break, they would still get the world record. (as long as it went fast eough) It might not be included in the competition, but the Guiness World Record only specifies a "model car that is controlled by a remote, wireless device". This includes 1/5 scale. Therefore, 1/5 should be allowed in this competition.

[DaFF]

There is way to get a 1/10 pass the 100 mph easy without breaking the bank.

Example:

250$ ESC : 2x LMT 7018 warrior

350$ Motor : 2 x Lehner Basic XL 27

50$ Batteries : 3 x Nicad pack 7.2 volt 1900 mA

----------

TOTAL : 650$

Mind you, this is a poor man setup, but with the XL 27, under 21.6 volt, you'll be reaching a theoretical 58 320 rpm (under the 65 000 rpm limit)

The warrior 70 Amp should be able to do it, because under 18 cells ( 21.6 volt) each Basic XL of 1300 Watt would draw maximum 61 Amp.

On a side note, one could find a second hand 1/10 scale car and make an extended chassis for it. That would be cheap too.

This is just a very cost effective setup, showing you that a motivated individual can make make some pretty interresting speed run.

To my opinion, the main goal is to have fun and I wouldn't have any fun blowing thousands on one race day, but that's only me !

To each his own and best luck to all.

DFF

[Craps]

Wait a minute if you are thinking about allowing a 1/5th or 1/4 size models, let's just allow any remote controlled vehicle and I'll buy an unlimited go-kart with remote controls or maybe an old Indy car with remote controls.

Where does it stop?

Leave it at 24" long and go build it to fit!

[Chris LaPanse]

Nope. The definition of "model car" by Guiness World Records is a car that is smaller than the original and does not use the full scale power system. Therefore, the Indy car or GoKart idea wouldn't work. They should allow any car that fits the Guiness world record limitations for the category. Also, in another post, some people are arguing against a two way system by saying "what if you blew the motor on the second pass? No one will deny that on the first pass, you broke the record. We won't say you didn't break the record because you blew up on the second pass." Well, how about i say this. Are they going to deny you the record just because your car is bigger if you REALLY went the fastest? Or will they go against their own principle and be hypocrits (sp?). The logical thing to do is clear. The question is: will they do it?

[b3guyRC10]

I'm thinking another concern for not using 1/5 cars would also be safety. Lets say that someone managed to get the car to hit 120mph or something similar and lost control. The size and mass is much greater and the force of the impact goes up exponentially. I think it is a smart move, and even if there is a fail safe, it is still not 100% guarenteed. Plus 1/10's represent a majority of the hobby, only a select few have the large scale cars.

-Will

[robtronic]

i have had my 1/6 scale protech clocked at 54mph, its specs are a 21- 8 port engine with a two speed gearbox, its not realy fast, but not bad for its size

[robtronic]

heres a pic

[Chris LaPanse]

That's incredible for a 1/6 with a .21. Most have a 5-6hp gas 25cc in them, so 54 is not bad on a .21 with "only" 2.5-3hp.