working blower scoop & supercharger

[jabberjaw]

before any one starts flaming about it doesnt work read this carefully

nitro engines produce less power the longer the air breather tube is and from what peaple say is that forced induction doesnt work on thease type of engines

now that kyosho is set to intraduce a mt with a working supercharger scoop
some projects can be done just for the heck of it to make it fit on others

ok mt do get heavy so this wouldnt be a race mt
gear it lower to compensate for the added w8 scoop,charger and cage. add a cage over the scoop so that when it roles it doesnt tear it to shreads, with the scoop up front and long tube to the engine. now the the sound of the supercharger sounds good
just to help with the flow of air to the carb

[Rs4Mtpowr]

i dont think you really know what you are talking about

[Freak e-maxx1]

a blower in a drag racer

[cretin]

this is such a dead horse. pro-forced induction rc fans are hard to find. you're just gonna get a lot of people telling you that blown, turboed, or juiced rc engines are stupid; no matter how good an idea you have. you have my vote, and i'll try to get your back, but it's an unpopular battle here.

[andrew23mj]

I know RB Innovations sells supercharger kits for sveral different MT engines. I have no idea if they work or not but they look like they work the same as a centrifugal blower on a regular car. I don't know as much about the properties and physics differences between regular gas and nitro engines. They seem like a good idea as long as you tune the engine a little richer than normal since you are putting more into it. Let me know if any of you hear about how these work. check out rbinnovations.com

[crank throw wei]

this is such a dead horse. pro-forced induction rc fans are hard to find. you're just gonna get a lot of people telling you that blown, turboed, or juiced rc engines are stupid; no matter how good an idea you have. you have my vote, and i'll try to get your back, but it's an unpopular battle here.
I think if you could find anyone who could provide substantial proof that one works,you would have a lot of people knocking down the door to get one.Let's face it,we all love power,otherwise we wouldn't be in this hobby.And it's not that they won't work,but they won't work on a standard engine.To properly work,the engine would have to be equipped with reed valves and an exhaust slide valve. The added complexity makes the engine more expensive to manufacture,reduces reliability,and slows performance.There was a thread started on this over a year ago,and a guy who worked for DARPA was involved in this very subject for military drone aircrafts.What they found is what I just stated. Go ahead and buy one,but please,come back and tell us about it.And not just say,"wow,it worked great",but before and after performance times.And when it doesn't improve your times,don't say you weren't warned.

[cretin]

it isn't that forced induction isn't possible, it's just not needed. if a .12 won't push your car fast enough, get a .15. if the t-maxx doesn't go fast enough with its .15, then get a .18 or a .21 or a .247. these engines ain't cheap, but they're a whole lot cheaper than a swap from a 350 to a 502. and the blowers and nitrous that are available now are some of the first of their kind, and not too cheap. packaging can also be an issue.

my buddy mushroom and i went to the hobby town usa in johnson city, tn a few months ago, and were talking to one of the guys that works there. he said a guy came in with a nitro rustler with one of those rb superchargers, and it was the fastest thing he'd ever seen. yes, i know it's a "i knwo a guy that knows a guy" thing. i'm not saying that it makes the story true.

all i'm saying is that forced induction has to be possible on a 2 stroke. i'm sure it's expensive and complicated. no, i don't want to be the first guy to own one (it took mushroom a year to convince me to get a savage, my first nitro). go back in time and tell wankel his rotary engine won't work. how many companies tried that project before mazda figured it out?

[atm92484_3]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but turbos and superchargers are designed to compress air in the combustion chamber by forcing more air into the same area. The exhaust valve(s) being closed allow this to occur. However, on our two strokes there are no valves so no compression of the air can occur and essentially all you are doing is LEANING the mixture. Why spend $300 and look like a total noob with nitrous and a super charger when you can just tune the engine correctly?

[ayk_driver]

of all the ppl on here that bash superchargers for r/c's... id really like to know if they have n e clue of how a real supercharger works.... a s/c forces air into an engine by spinning a turbine... real engine only spin at like tops 10,000 rpm for a high performance street engine and thats pushing it.... and they make power.... an r/c idles at 3000.... 20,000+ when WOT.... so y woodnt it work? all ur doing is spinning a turbine and cramming more air into ur carb.... air=power everyone knows that.... urd probably have to run rcher thats all.... so y wood it not work... now a turbo could be a problem as is wood hurt the engine... nitrous? good bye piston as it shoots through the cylinder head lol... but a s/c shouldnt hurt it that much....

just my $.25 of insight....

[egdinger]

First off the kyosho m/t you speek of doesn't have a supercharger (unless they've changed it) it is just a fancy looking air filter cover.

Why would forced induction not work on a 2 stroke engine like the ones we use. Well because the engines have the exhust and intake ports open at the same time all the extra air would just flow right back out of the engine. Forced induction can work on some 2 stroke engines such as detriot desiels, but they use valves like a 4 stroke. Oh and the supercharged engine that O.S. makes is a 4 stroke.

[jabberjaw]

yes kyosho will only be making the scoop and with the scoop its only going to let so much air in at one time but the longer and opsticals in the air breather the harder it is for the engine to breathe under its own power so if you use a supercharger say from rb that would help give more air back to the motor
breahte through a long straw, then add a filter and see how much harder it is to breathe as compared then just an open mouth

i used to watch the old monster trucks racing and they always had the scoop showing
and i want my rig to have a real working blower scoop and since i wont get a kyosho when its released i would just buy theres and fix it to mine and to do that i would have to work out a few things i do have the tools to fab the adapter and what ever

as for it leaning out the engine i may add a fuel pump to it to also compensate for the added air

r/c spose to be fun and creative not demoralizing as alot of posts on thease boards seem to be dont be one minded arses by reading bits and pieces then posting a stupid remark the best thread ive read was the woodymaxxxx!!!! i didnt read any why waste your time and $$ doing it or other crap yadda yadda
if at all i do is add w8 and a few $$$ spent i will have learned a few things and that would be better thinking and crafting skills for another project
as for those that have somthing decent to say bring it on
seeing the mgt in rcca is what got me back into rc and now i have decent fab equipment i can make stuff for it or get me closer to what i really want to build is scaled down r/c heavy equip and junk

[cretin]

the butterflies would be easy. just get or make a scoop with the flapper, and set up a micro servo to open it when you give it gas. you'd obviously not want the things closed all the way when off throttle unless you had another inlet for idle. not a big project.

realistically, the tiny nitrous kits probably have the best chance of working. part of the benefit of gas is the cooling effect of the nitrous. this would have to help at least a little bit, even if the extra oxygen didn't.

[jabberjaw]

i was thinking about that
since the servo is up in front it would just be easier to rig up a mechanisem to the throtle servo

[crank throw wei]

the best thread ive read was the woodymaxxxx!!!!
That is an awesome thread! Beautiful workmanship! :cool:

[nitro.monster]

www.jagrc.com

this site have nitro kit to T-Maxx.

[tg10beast]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but turbos and superchargers are designed to compress air in the combustion chamber

try it, i used my crapy old tamiya lt and fixed it to our compressor takes it up to alot high revs even with a fully open carb. the only thing was that to much forced induction cooled down the engine a causes it to stall, but this might jsut be the unreliability of the lt not capable of hacking it.

Chris

[atm92484_3]

Thats probably because you leaned the engine out! :)

[thefasttrack]

that means it was tuned wrong because if you have a cooler engine instead of a hot one the metal hasnt expanded thus there for creating more compression. and you know what the means higher rpm and less likely to stall but all the air did was make it leaner and cool it down thats it and thats why it stalled it wasnt getting enough feul to air mixture .
i dont really mean to flame but if the supercharger were to be real we would have auto detanation thus ruening your motor but you know its BS already because you cant detanate a two stroke because both air /exhaust are open at the same time so basiclly if it even were to detanate nothing wouild happen because both R open n 'sync all this being bull sh1t (excuse my french)

[jabberjaw]

2strokes can detanate its just that its not as bad as the 4strokes
i run 2stroke dirtbikes and all i hear is that they can det frotm the manufactures and other companies

[thefasttrack]

jabber jaw im sure detantion can be in a 2 stroke but it wont be trapt like in a 4 stoke. so theres basically no dammage becuse when that happens exaust and air port are open so wat would happen would only be fire coming out of the carb and exaust at the same time its like an extra jolt thats not healthy

[jabberjaw]

i just watched modern marvels on history channel about gasolean
and this is what i got out of it
the higher the octane the more compression an engine can have wether its 2or4 stroke
if you run low octane in a high compression engine it will detonate as it get to a certain compression point and that point is past all the ports in a 2stroke engine
so the chance of it coming out both ends is low but not impossible cause i have seen it happen on a 4stroke

[kodiak kid]

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, as the super charger forces air into the carb/cylinder, both ports are open, however, I think it would work b/c when the piston is on the up stroke, if the blower is forcing enough air into it, then it would in fact trap the compressed air, giving you more power, as long as the added fuel was there. I have an Eaton blower in my car and That is how they work...The question I have as far as Nitro engines go...Are the exaust port and the intake ports on the same level of the cylinder? Or is the exaust higher/lower then the intake. I ask this b/c 1) I am new to nitro, and 2) If the exaust ports are lower, then the super charger would then definatly produce more power by for a fraction of a second, the intake port is open slightly longer then the exaust, allowing more air in...N E way, Just my .02

[surfer]

check the back of last months rcca (revo on cover) there is an add in back with production superchargers from RC Innovations

[jcriss-rc10gt]

hello every one..i am involved in a precision machining program at my highschool(Lenape vo-tech, ford city, PA). to become a certified machinist. and i was on the internet and i saw a rc supercharger. and i thought it would be cool.. so pretty soon i am going to be machining a supercharger.. so when i get it done ill post pix and tell you all about it..i have a rc10gt with a os. .12 cv-x and it does 55 to 65 mph depending on the weather and the %nitro used.. so with the supercharger i cant wait to see waht the gains will be(if any)..me hoping that there will be significant gains..! :D

[tperkins]

65 mph with an OS .12? I dont know much about ST speed or OS engines, but I dont know a single touring car that could hit 65 with that engine, so I cant imagine a GT hitting speeds like that. I would like to know how you measuered speed?

[Baja-Destroyer]

o air=power everyone knows that.... urd probably have to run rcher thats all....



lol u know why it wont work cuz the extra air u put in leans the engine so u say run richer so really ur running rich and wasting fuel then while its rich u lean it out with more air so all ur really doing is wasting fuel instead of just leaning the engine in the 1st place...

[ayk_driver]

if u can buy a turbo kit for a kawasaki ninja bike that works and nearly doubles the hp... and if u can buy a super charger for ur harley... y cant u s/c an r/c engine? its just a smaller 2 stroke...

y doesnt rcca just test these jeez...

[jcriss-rc10gt]

welll..its kinda like a drag race.... you set up a start point and a stop point and b4 the start point you get your car up to top speed and when it goes past the first, lets say "cone" you hit start on a stop watch and then just as you pass the second "cone" you hit stop. and then you do the math..i cant remember what the equation is right now but thats what i did......what is you past speed experiences with any touring cars, st's or mt's? the o.s. 12 may not have as much torque as a bigger engine( .15,.18,.21) but the run at much higher rpms

[thedarkness]

Ayk Driver All street motorcycles sold in the states or canada are 4 strokes.The only way to register a 2 stroke street bike is to register it as a lawnmower.A supercharger could work in a nitro engine if the pipe could make enough backpressure to keep the compressed oxegen from just blowwing through the engine.But why not just buy a high end engine

[jcriss-rc10gt]

yes the air will blow thru the engine, but as the piston begins to come to the top of it's stroke, the air that would normally "blow" thru the engine will be trapped in the cylinder, thus increasing the air volume in the combustion chamber, and also creating more power. no matter how much back pressure that the pipe produces also.. useful info about the bike registration..but what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

[Silent Night]

I think its because those bikes are 2-strokes. Anyways, in cars, the exhuast and intake ports are open at the same time for a split second much like a nitro. And, in nitro engines while the intake and exhaust ports are open, not all of the bad fuel has escaped which leave a little bad fuel in the engine losing power. A supercharger may help by pushing out all of that bad fuel leaving you with nice fresh fuel.

[DanteXIII]

Not be a jackass and get all technicle about it but thats the whole reason the Nitro methaine is in the fuel. Basically, when the Nitro burns it separates into an enormus amount of Nitrogen, or N2, and methaine, which burns along with the Methanol. So essentially, if you want to supercharge your nitro, buy fuel with a higher Nitro content.

[jcriss-rc10gt]

sorri, i didnt even see the post above mine.about the motorcycle .but ..the point is..to get as MUCH air and fuel into the engine as possibly..even if the nitro methane produces nitrogen and ect. i might as well try to get even MORE air iand fuel in there dont you agreee? my speed fellow freaks should all agree..more air and fuel= more power oh yea..i have a 1975 honda mt 250 elsinore..and it would happen to be 2 stroke..
so if you hve ne more info about registration it would be helpful..!

[NitroBoy24]

if u can buy a turbo kit for a kawasaki ninja bike that works and nearly doubles the hp... and if u can buy a super charger for ur harley... y cant u s/c an r/c engine? its just a smaller 2 stroke...

Maybe because...

Harleys and Kawasaki Ninjas are 4-strokes..

[MurcielagoR-GT]

I think its because those bikes are 2-strokes. Anyways, in cars, the exhuast and intake ports are open at the same time for a split second much like a nitro. And, in nitro engines while the intake and exhaust ports are open, not all of the bad fuel has escaped which leave a little bad fuel in the engine losing power. A supercharger may help by pushing out all of that bad fuel leaving you with nice fresh fuel.

What do you mean by bad fuel? I thought the point on backpressure was to send the fuel inside the pipe that did not burn back into the engine... Which creates more fuel+air in the engine? I have never heard of bad fuel in all my days of racing cars and shifter karts... :cool:

[Fantom 15 gt]

i have a rc10gt with a os. .12 cv-x and it does 55 to 65 mph

LOL are you serious? Togo's GT has a .21 and super high gearing he goes 70 mph. I doubt you are going that fast.

[jcriss-rc10gt]

a .12 engine will spin more rpm's the a .21 any day of the week...and i didnt claim that my rc10gt goes 70...i am saying that it goes mybe 65 TOPS....so with a supercharger im wondering what it will do.....and what gear teeth is he running...14/64 or what..?

[maxxamillion]

Some of you(not all of you) don't understand motors, period.
Anyone who thinks a Ninja or Harley is a two stroke needs to go study engines some more. 'How Stuff Works' is a good start.
Blowers(supercharger), Turbos & Nitrous are systems used successfully on FOUR STROKES!
A well designed two stroke comes on the power so hard its like having a blower/turbo/nitrous on a four stroke. The rate of acceleration.
A four stroke will never have the rate of acceleration a two stoke has(given equal size), although current technology has narrowed it a bit. The four stroke needs compressed charges(blower/turbo) or enhanced explosion(nitrous) to get that rush of acceleration a two stroke has.
Two strokes will be outdated in the (relatively)near future due to emissions(smog), although intake reeds & variable exhaust ports cleans them up and improves power(low end) considerably.
Four strokes are the future-like it or not(full scale).
In rc, the two stroke kicks butt(simple, compact & powerful)! How long will the Feds stay away?
The 'blower' on the giga crusher is nothing more than a stylized air filter.
Jeez... rant/

EDIT: There are several high end .21's that turn 40k apprx, just like .12/.15's,
fyi

[jcriss-rc10gt]

again..notice..the HIGH END...part of the post...not all of us are mr.money bags....
so not all of us can afford HIGH END engines so some of us try to make the best of what we have...and it would be cool anyway...

[aenima]

it isn't that forced induction isn't possible, it's just not needed. if a .12 won't push your car fast enough, get a .15. if the t-maxx doesn't go fast enough with its .15, then get a .18 or a .21 or a .247. these engines ain't cheap, but they're a whole lot cheaper than a swap from a 350 to a 502. and the blowers and nitrous that are available now are some of the first of their kind, and not too cheap. packaging can also be an issue.

my buddy mushroom and i went to the hobby town usa in johnson city, tn a few months ago, and were talking to one of the guys that works there. he said a guy came in with a nitro rustler with one of those rb superchargers, and it was the fastest thing he'd ever seen. yes, i know it's a "i knwo a guy that knows a guy" thing. i'm not saying that it makes the story true.

all i'm saying is that forced induction has to be possible on a 2 stroke. i'm sure it's expensive and complicated. no, i don't want to be the first guy to own one (it took mushroom a year to convince me to get a savage, my first nitro). go back in time and tell wankel his rotary engine won't work. how many companies tried that project before mazda figured it out?




I wouldn't take any advice from someone who makes friends with a mushroom!!!

[racinlosi]

What is RB's site anyways? I can't seem to find it for some reason.


Also, he didn't meet him with a Mushroom, he's nick name is Mushroom! :rolleyes:

[henry_huckem]

LMAO @this post...
thefasttrack, ayk_driver, and jabberjaw: In the english language we have these things called "punctuation marks". The most common of these are: the period (.), the comma (,), the exclamation point (!), and the apostrophe ('). If you really want to get your ideas across and have people actually RESPECT (let alone understand) what you are trying to say, my suggestion would be to take the next 20 bucks you're going to spend on nitro fuel and use it to buy a Webster's dictionary.

Have fun.

-matt

[henry_huckem]

What is RB's site anyways? I can't seem to find it for some reason.


Also, he didn't meet him with a Mushroom, he's nick name is Mushroom! :rolleyes:

it is www.rbinnovations.com (http://www.rbinnovations.com)

[bullethead]

RC DRIVER last issue,

DYNO TEST,

Im not impressed BUT there seems to be a SMALL increase in power.

Looks like a smoother powerband.

BULLETHEAD

P.S. It is electric so it wont rob power from your your mill.

[powerstroke01]

wow. So many uninformed people in here.

[grannys]

Here's something i posted earlier today in another thread that may apply here as well...

Some of the 2 stroke Detroit Diesel engines such as the 92 series even comes from the factory with the
supercharger and an additional turbocharger. Remember the blower/superchargers from the full
size Top Fuel / Funny Car of the '60s/early 70s ? They used the 6-71 that was lifted directly
from the side of a 6-71 in-line GMC 2 stroke diesel.

The Detroits have exhaust valves that are cam actuated, but the intake valving is a ported
sleeve just like our nitro engines. Both the ported sleeve and the poppet design are a form of
valve, it's the timing of the valve that's the real variable.

Something that comes to my mind is the fact that our nitro engines are pretty well scienced out
right from the manufacturer. There is not a lot of extra strength built into their design. If there
was some extra strength found that was not needed, the design would likely be changed to
improve the power/weight ratio of the engines (providing it was cost effective). Start pumping
up the power and i suspect that the crankshaft's rod pin and con rod itself would be the 1st
limitation encountered.

Is there a net benefit to supercharging our nitro engines? The test i like to use is...does the
supercharging net us an improvement in our vehicle's power-to-weight ratio? In the case of
the RB innovations design, i don't see an o-ring drive that's capable of providing the more than
1.22psi boost needed to offset the vehicle's increased weight. Say you had a .21 sized engine
that put out 3hp in a vehicle that weighs 6lbs. That's 2 lbs per hp. Say you add a supercharger
package that weighs 8oz. Your vehicle now weighs 6-1/2lbs and now needs 3.25hp just to
maintain the same p/w ratio. But the goal here was to improve vehicle performance, not just
engine performance, so we need more than this 8.3 percent power improvement to net a gain.
If RB found a .25hp increase in power from their supercharger package, their promotional
department would be negilgent not to use the numbers in their ads. Nevermind the fact that
they would use numbers from an engine dyno test that would not take into account the need
to offset increased vehicle weight, a documented .25hp power increase would be a huge selling
point for them.

And don't even get me started on the electric supercharger i see tested in the magazines. The
RC Driver article documents a .076 hp gain in a C4, a 3% net increase in hp. The article says
that it disproves the theory that a 2 stroke cannot be supercharged. What the article does not
tell you is that it did not prove that a supercharger will improve your vehicle's performance.
Here's the way in see it...If the whole supercharger system, including required external ESC,
weighs in at any more than 82 grams (i'd bet it's heavier), you will lose performance in our
6lb/3hp vehicle even though power has been increased!!! Then there's the added drain on your
reciever battery. Adding another reciever battery, 90 grams or so, for the supercharger is a
huge step in the wrong direction- the supercharger tested cannot even offset the weight
increase for just the added battery alone. If i were designing a system that added electric power to
my nitro engine, i believe the direct approach would be best...just attach a pinion instead of a
fan to that electric motor and put the power directly to the spur gear!!! much simpler and no
need to change the carb's needle settings.

Keep in mind that the above p/w thoughts are as applied to the speed runs.
If we start turning corners with our cars, increased weight is an even bigger
consideration and has to be offset with better handling as well.

I could be wrong here...i look forward to opposing viewpoints.......

Grant

[Kmot]

Try this experiment: get your big block engine tuned for maximum power in your vehicle. Now, without doing anything else, richen the high speed needle a full 1/2 turn. How does it run now?

I have had the MPPA electric blower installed in my 1/8 buggy with a .247 engine for a couple months; although I have only driven it a half dozen times with it. I have enrichened my HSN a full 1/2 turn and the engine is using every bit of it. I might be able to go even richer still. Is that a new, 3% increase in power? I do not know. What I do know is the buggy accelerates harder; sounds different; and is quite noticeably more brutish with the blower installed.

Cheers!

http://www.fototime.com/74767BA7306A06C/standard.jpg

[Freak e-maxx1]

where does the ele motor hook up to and could u give me a link where u got it from

did u make that roll cage for ur buggy could you post a whole pic?

[racinlosi]

Freak e-maxx1-It's that circular peice that is silver coming out from the blower. It is right in the middle of the picture.

[Freak e-maxx1]

i mean where does the power come from to power the ele motor

[henry_huckem]

the blower runs on pure B.S. power. very clean and efficient.
:p

[Freak e-maxx1]

liek does it go to the Rx or does it use a separte power sorce

[Kmot]

Freaky: Here is the URL for their website:

http://mppa.biz

The electric motor that runs the blower is controlled by a micro esc that is connected in parallel to the throttle servo. So it varies its speed in relation to the engines speed. It is powered by either the Rx powerpack or ideally by a second, dedicated battery pack.

[RespirologyRC]

Has anyone seen the article in RC Driver about the supercharger?
Apparently it works and the author gives pro and cons on his trial with it.

I like it but at the same time don't. I have tried making my own supercharger type thingy with an air compressor and a 10psi adaptor; it worked but
whatever this is getting old....

[Freak e-maxx1]

i have to check that out

[coxbros]

I've ordered one for my NTC3 which ran 51.1 mph on gps bone stock with a .15. I'll test it and report the results.

[coxbros]

I've ordered one for my NTC3 which ran 51.1 mph on gps bone stock with a .15. I'll test it and report the results.

[JoshsTL01]

for the cost and expenses of a s/c, u might as well just buy a new engine. it would kill whatever it was is sooner than the stock set-up, and it will overheat if you run too lean.

[coxbros]

I know I could by the .12 OSTZ Turbo for $200 and have 1.6hp or whatever they say but the cool factor for the supercharger is much more impressive. If the car will gain 5mph and run good with the blower it will be well worth it for me, if not, at least I tried and the results will be fact and not speculation.

[thedarkness]

A cheap supercharged engine is cooler than a race engine, since when?
Id much rather have a full on 6.0litre race engine than a stock 6 litre with a supercharger, and when you really push it what one do you think will last longer?

[coxbros]

The race engine. But the timespan of the engine doesn't matter if it looks cool and runs decent.