BJ4 by JConcepts - ASSOCIATED B4 & TC3 Hybrid 4x4!!!

[STEALTH]

Since I didn't see any threads with regards to this new and Awesome 4WD creation, I decided to start this thread here to help spread the word on it and have those interested in it exchange some thoughts, comments, and ideas. The U.S. Off-Road Nationals in New Mexico will be starting in a few days and this car will (for the most part) represent AE's presence in the 4WD Class as a number of Sponsored and Factory Drivers will be racing with it. For those not aware of the background of this very creative "project" by JConcepts, here is a post I started on another Forum months ago:

First Posted On Another Forum Back In October 2003:
Associated B4 4x4 Hybrid Heading For Production!!!

It has just been confirmed that the BJ4X4 (B4/TC3 Hybrid) seen at this year's Off-Road IFMAR World's will be going into production in the near future! This concept 4x4 Off-Roader was completed only 2 weeks before the World's plus it was seeing it's first ever competetive race at the biggest of ALL Off-Road events! It placed 13th overall which quite simply is..... Astonishing!!! It Bested many Losi XXX-4 Grpahite+ cars, Yokomo MR-4 BC Specials, and even a small fleet of it's distant cousin the Durango!

Here in detail from David Joor (Owner & Administrator of RC10B4.com) is a more accurate description of this Amazing news which at the very least will spark more interest and rivalry over the entire 4x4 Off Road Class!

DAVID JOOR- "Ok, here is an update that everyone has probably been waiting to read. This car is for sure being slanted for development by Jason and Brad. The intention of the car is to be fully racer oriented, being threaded shocks, titanium, and so forth. The car will be a full kit, so you don't have to buy a TC3 and so forth. Now the most important concern on peoples minds is cost. Obviously with a couple of guys putting together a kit, they don't have the resources to make molds to cut down on costs. So the car will cost more than say the Losi but not even close to the price of the Durango. The production price benchmark is set to be below $500. They plan to also have a full working website where you will be able to purchase all the parts needed that are not offered by AE and probably even those parts as well. Soon enough hobbyshops will take on the parts as well so there are no worries about not getting the parts you may need.

This is some exciting stuff and their seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I will keep up the info as I get it.

Did I mention this just got on Team Orion news? Thanks Orion for the support, they know this is an important development taking place."

Many Thanks To DAVID JOOR For This FANTASTIC News!!!


Here is a Link directly to the Orion news posting for a bit more Info on it plus also where a link to David's site can be found for some cool pics and lively discussions:


http://www.teamorion.com/global/global_news.asp?id=2075



http://www.info.com.ph/~ish/BJ4@LosiRace-04.JPG


http://www.info.com.ph/~jlm1/BJ4X4-Wallpaper.jpg

[Fast T3]

i like the body

[Dallas]

rcca had something on this a while back, its looking good

[jnegrx]

I like the car

[STEALTH]

Three BJ4's by JConcepts Make The "A" Main at the Nationals down in Albuquerque (ARCOR), New Mexico!!! :D

1 - Adam Drake (XXX-4)
2 - Jukka Steenari (XXX-4)
3 - Greg Hodapp (BJ4)
4 - Ryan Cavaliri (XXX-4)
5 - Mike Truhe (XXX-4)
6 - Scott Brown (BJ4)
7 - Matt Francis (XXX-4)
8 - Brian Kinwald (XXX-4)
9 - Jesse Robbers (XXX-4)
10 - Mark Pavidis (BJ4)

[SirSpeedy]

Wow.

Greg Hodapp, Mark Pavidas, and Scott Brown were racing them at the ROAR Nats? Those guys are really fast. I don't thing they would would waste their time running a car that was not really good.

I can't wait to see one at my local track.

[stadiumtrucker_]

How does this car compare to RCPD's TC3 "O"? and when do you think the "BJ 4x4" will go into mainstream production?

[Cain]

BJ4x4 is shipping right now. May take a bit to get yours as they have to fill the pre-orders.

early reports are positive on the buggy, though be prepared to purchase your own set of tires as it only comes with the wheels, no tires.

[nate johnston]

anyone have a good setup for a clay high traction indoor track? thanks

[kanevil]

1/10 Electric 4WD Buggies are coming back hotter than ever!!! Its about time too!

[Striker]

What kind of diffs does it use? Is it TC3 diffs or a combo that jconcepts put together?

[microrcdude]

i think its diffs they put together.

[Beniscool6]

im almost possitive it uses TC3 diffs

[jnegrx]

It uses NTC3 diffs.

[microrcdude]

whats the difference between NTC3 and TC3 diffs? design?

[jnegrx]

The NTC3 outdrives are made of steel and are longer. Their design is basically the same with minor changes. For example the NTC3 has an inner ring that acts like an slipper, the way that the trust bearing is held in place is different also.

[ILuvMyB4]

man. i want one of these to go along with my 2WD B4. that looks awsome!!! i wonder if RCCA is going to review it... i hope they do

[BrushlessHawaii]

I've been on the pre order list - it's getting closer to my name. woohoo :)

I have a B4 & a T4 so this will complete the Holy Trinity of Offroad Electric RC and I will rule the earth.

[ILuvMyB4]

lol. thats awsome. im just going to wait and get one. but i like the holy trinity of offroad electric rc.

[TMaxxBenny25]

I saw this in R/C Car magazine by high torque publications. Its a killer buggy!

[mr.rc]

I saw two at the rc excitement opening race they were pretty fast and looked really solid. if i had the money I would so get onE but as of now I can only afford the basic xxx-4 which im happy with.

[ILuvMyB4]

ya. maybe i will get one if i can get the money. they are quite expencive.

[RCBASHERFREAK50]

heres a pic of one
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/Pimpedoutxbox002/Gtown009.jpg

[ILuvMyB4]

lucky you. you had the money to buy one and test it for yourself...

[TMaxxBenny25]

I wouldnt buy 1 for the price they ask. For that much cash i could buy a XXX-4 G+ and a like LRP AI esc, a motor, and some paint. WAYYYYYYYYY to much cash. Its a rip off in my opinion. Now of they made 1 with a composite chasis that would make the cost plumet to an average consumer price.

[TBone77]

Now of they made 1 with a composite chasis that would make the cost plumet to an average consumer price.

I think the reason it's graphite is they don't have the equipment to make a molded composite chassis.

I could be wrong, but I think that's what I read somewhere.

Now, if AE would pick up the ball and play 4WD, we could get a BJ4-quality buggy for under $300... :rolleyes:

[ILuvMyB4]

im kind of surprised they arent already in 4WD buggys. you would think such a good company would be in all categories of rc.

[ILuvMyB4]

theyre kind of in the 4WD category now with the BJ4 but if the made a full blown 4WD buggy, nitro or electric, that would put them completely in the category. a buggy completely designed for 4WD would be a major step up for associated.

[jnegrx]

The molds for the composite cars is the most expensive part of the process. Remember that for enough material to fill the empty mold is kind of a hit or miss process and that many molds have to be made to make sure that every part has enough material. Most of the prototypes are made with graphite plate because of this.

[ILuvMyB4]

interesting...

[microrcdude]

They could just make the chassis in G10 fiberglass and sell it with not as top-dollar parts for those who want a upgradable car on a budget.

[bustedparts]

All I got to say is I want one.I bought a yokomo and I hate the diff setup.There great if you dont run it in the dirt!

[sean68]

omg....... $450 for a 4wd e-powered buggy kit???? i just dont get it? i dont bash the e racers at all, but that is crazy. hell, if ya got the money G.E.D.!!!

[powerram2500]

drive the car, work on the car and look at the car.

the bj4 is worth every penny!!

replacement parts are cheap as mostly all associated. the car is absolutely awesome........

[Cain]

The BJ4x4 is a great car and is a nice option for those that want an AE based buggy using alot of B4 parts and others you can get off the shelf.

I think the only issue at this time that is being worked primarily is the weakness of the front arms. Even the delrin ones break more than they should from what I have gathered from the owners of the BJ4.

I am not sure how much cheaper they could get, they could sell the vehicle with an FRP chassis, non threaded shocks, steel turnbuckles, no center oneway, etc. Who knows, maybe get the vehicle down in the high 200s to low 300s and still have it perform.

[winning edge designs]

sean68, what is funny is that most people don't take the time to add up the hop ups they put in thier cars and trucks. I have seen 1/18th scale cars and trucks with enough aluminum and titanium to make them a $500 investment! A XXX4 with an added one way is about $400, so a not mass produced kit like the BJ4 is actually priced very well, imo.

Cain, I bet it's like the kits from A/E and TeamLosi, where the difference between a loaded kit and the base version is about $50-100? I know I wouldn't want to give up the threaded shocks, good shock shafts, ti turnbuckles, aluminum steering, one way shaft, aluminum pivot blocks, etc. unless there was more of a difference?.............imo,Jim

[crazyjr]

I worked for a medium sized plastics plant for fifteen years and i can tell you that for a small company like JConcepts to produce a molded chassis for their car could run into the millions of dollars because you don't buy a machine and start making parts.You buy the machine(whitch could cost millions by itself)thenyou have the tooling made then you spend time with a technitionto sort out all the parameters to produce a quality warp-free part.By then you could have tens-of-millions in a part that might not sell enough to justify the cost.Sorry if i rambled too long but i wanted to give you some insight on what companies are thinking when they make desigions like that

[stiffler]

crazyjr, ya, but if a guy wants to save 100 bucks shouldnt j concepts spend a million to help him out? So they have to sell how many cars at 100 bucks less to cover thier investment?lol

At least the BJ4 helps you score chicks!

[microrcdude]

Its like the Matt Francis of R/C cars, lol.

I think they should just make some G10 fiberglass chassis plates. That would shave $75 to $150 off the cost

[crazyjr]

The problem is a small company like JConcepts with a limited input dosen't have the money like AE.,Losi or tamiya to pull this off.If they did go this route,the cars would be three times the current price because of the money they would have to make for the investment they have, especially if it is the only part they make

[crazyjr]

If you wan't a 4x4 buggythere are two alternitives.You can get one of the MRC buggies or you can check out RC Product Designs.com.That is not a link(but that is the web site)they have a buggy conversionkit that will convert a TC3 touring car into a buggy.

[sean68]

millions..... tens of millions...? i dont think so!!!!!!

put the pipe down!!

[crazyjr]

I said it could be up there,you have to understandto do this they would need at least three machines to pull this off.One to make the chassis,one to make upper chassis and one to do the shock towers.All could be done in one mold but it would be complicated and tempermental..I helped setup and run some of the molds we ran,sometimes we couldn't keep it running to save our livesdue to weather or quality of material.At least with carbon fiber ,what you see is what you get ,you can make a split desision on what you can use and what you can't.You are also not counting the human factor,you need someone to setup and work on machine (these people are not cheap)you need someone to run the machine(florida has a high pay scale and you want to keep this guy happy).That is what i mean about a lot of money invetsed.Besides i think they are producing a better product the way they are.I never did pick up the pipe ,I just tried to explain why they might not be able to do it the way you think it should be done.

[Dan-o]

I'm on the list!

[stiffler]

A G10 fiberglass chassis would shave off $75-150? Isn't the BJ4s chassis only $55 in graphite? you guys must use different math then i do?
crazyjr, so how much less would it be to buy a TC3 and the conversion, along with all the other needed parts to make a 4wd off road car?
Dudes, didn't A/E just change thier TC4 over to carbon sheet like the BJ4 uses?

Just get a BJ4 so you guys can score chicks too!!!

[microrcdude]

i mean if they replaced Every carbon fiber peice, not just the chassis plate.

[Dan-o]

anyone have any input on how set the buggy up for a tight rough track? I will be getting mine soon!

[Legend_Car]

why is the BJ4 so much more expensive than the xxx-4 G+ they are both 8th scale 4wd graphite with cvds. sure ones shaft and ones belt but why $450 to $329 the BJ4 looks sweet though

[GT Freak]

Would like to see it minus the body, and what wheels does it use :confused:

[Dan-o]

the BJ4 is all custom made, not mass produced. this raises cost considerably. also, molded graphite composite is less expensive to produce than woven carbon fiber is.

Both buggies are 10th scale not 8th. I believe either the B4 or XXX rear wheels will work, and XXX-4 fronts...? maybe an actual owner could clue us in?

check out www.jconcepts.net for chassis pics.

[ImLow78]

Dan-o,
You are correct. Hope this helps! Shannon. Oh ya!! ITS WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stiffler]

legend car, the BJ4 is not more expensive then the XXX4 if you consider the included aluminum like the castor blocks suspension mounts steering bellcranks and other things. the BJ4 comes with a center one way 2 so if you add the cost of the aluminum castor blocks and the one way to the XXX4 is costs about the same. we havent included the fact that the BJ4 has carbon shock towers not fiberglass also.

Both 4wds will help with the ladies and the XXX4 is no slouch netting hotties in the 7.5-8 range but the BJ4 rates a 9 on the hottie meter!

Just get 1 so you can score chicks too!

[stiffler]

I want to add that the BJ4 is "the fastest car from the world warm up that you can buy"!

I read someplace about a car that required you to have a XX4 laying around so you can biuld one and it clamied to be the one >buzzer sound here<

I think so far that other car has scored a 3 on the hottie scale which is around rossane bar territory after all her surgery even

my lady made me type that since she is behind me rebiulding the diffs in my BJ4 for the Nats

Did I mention she is with me because I drive a BJ4

They help you score chicks

[crazyjr]

stiffler, the car you were talking about is a losi x5, it uses the chassis and belt system of the xxx4 with the suspension of the xx4.

[Dan-o]

close, but no cigar.
Suspension etc is all losi xx4, but the chassis is all custom, and as for the drive train, if it's not from a xxx, it's close. but why spend $699.00 on a wierd looking car when you can get a sexy looking BJ4 for $450?

[stiffler]

Oh I thought the XX4 and XXX4 used the same suspension except for the front arms?

Is the X5 a "Losi" brand car for real or just another car using losi parts to compete with losi cars?

I know the rear arms-hubs-front spindles-castor blocks-king pins-shocks and alot of other things are the same on both cars

Well, either way, as long as the chicks dig the BJ4, so do I!

Nats this weekend, here is a chance 4 another title for the BJ4!

the chicks must be going crazy over at that race

[Dan-o]

I don't think the XX and XXX4 use the same suspension at all. That's why this new X-5 conversion (not a Losi product) is becoming so popular. I've heard the XX's suspension is much better suited to rough tracks. The single belt conversion is more efficient and easier to maintain I suppose.
too bad nats were this weekend, the preorder list is getting close to my name, and I'm sure production has halted with everyone gone at Nats...I'll just have to wait till next week.

[jnegrx]

The X-5 use a new diferent chassis with the XX suspension geometry. I just bought a BJ4 and is a piece of art. There are some minor glitches but all in all a freat car. I haven't driven it offroad yet(rain) but i used it on an indoor carpet tracks with jumps. and it felt great amd very very fast but with a 10 turn single it's supposed to be a rocket.

[Dan-o]

I'm looking forward to getting mine.

[winning edge designs]

The XX4 and XXX4 do use mostly the same suspension components, things like rear suspension are exactly the same, the front suspension on the XXX4 uses arm mounts like an on road car, rather then a front pivot block, like on the XX4, this is the only real difference i'm aware of in front. This is different from one car to the other due to the larger pulleys and lower chassis in the single belt design keeping the earlier front pivot block set up from working.

All this means is that the XXX4 has a lower chassis stance at the same ride height, which some team drivers don't care for on rough or low traction tracks.......So the things that make the XXX4 so good on smooth high bite, low CG, etc., cause the opposite effect on loose and rough making the XX4 more desirable.

jnegrx, I agree, the BJ4 is very well made....i'd say that even if Jason and Brad weren't friends!...;), Jim

[Dan-o]

Mine is in the mail! found a new one on ebay for the same price as one from JConcepts.

[Dan-o]

THE BJ4 IS WORLD CHAMP!
Cav driving a new evo chassis with saddle packs and mid mounted battery won the 4wd IFMAR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS!

in other news...I finally got mine:)

[winning edge designs]

Sweeeeet! Jason and Brad and Ryan must be stoked...wish I could have gone!

Hope you guys dig the new body, we busted our arse on it to make it look much "racier"....Maybe the update kit will be coming out too now, since it won?......:), Jim

[Dan-o]

I'll have to pick up one of the new bodies. they're very cool looking. I like the front window, like the illusions B4 body.

WED, do you have any idea how much an evo chassis kit will cost? I just got my BJ4, and if the new chassis is not too much more expensive, I might try to upgrade...

[winning edge designs]

Dan-O, i'm not sure what the price will be, Jason hasn't locked it in yet. I know he'll keep it as reasonable as possible. It is new lower chassis, two new uppers, slipper center diff and according bulkheads & mounts, new front arms made specifically for the BJ4, center CVD's in aluminum, molded battery trays that fit the chassis slots to save all that filing work, etc. Did I mention the new body yet, :)? The body fits both versions with a little more overhang in the back, since the new chassis is more square at the back for the batteries.

I do think the latest version is for certain tracks and the previous one for typical tracks, kind of like how Losi is using the XXX4 and the XX4 for certain conditions.......Jim

[Dan-o]

excellent.
I raced it for the first time tonight. It ran awesome! it was the first time I was able to break 17 laps!

[Tamiya4ever]

How much does a kit run? And I guess I would have to get a TC-4 then also right?

[microrcdude]

No you wouldnt, its a complete rolling kit less electronics. They run about $450. Best part is they use alot of parts found on AE buggies, so its easy to find spares

[Tamiya4ever]

No you wouldnt, its a complete rolling kit less electronics. They run about $450. Best part is they use alot of parts found on AE buggies, so its easy to find spares

Hmm ok. I could not afford one though, but they are nice.

[microrcdude]

Yeah they are, i got to drive one at the LHS, and wow, so nice compaierd to a XXX4

[winning edge designs]

Biulding the BJ4 is fun, it goes together with minimal effort. I biult one this week for the first time in a while. I think the worlds kits are getting really close, the conversions are already available!

....Jim

[ErikRC10]

Do you think the prices of the regular BJ4's will drop when the world's edition comes out? I want one REALLY REALLY bad but I wouldn't be able to order one till this summer when I get a job and it would cost me a whole monthes pay check (at the least). Then I would still have to buy all electronics which would be costing me for the next monthes pay. Then basically the summer is over.

Also what are the week points of it and what parts does it share with AE cars?

[winning edge designs]

Erik, it uses the shocks and diff parts from the A/E cars, the front arms are new and beefier, a good thing in 4wd off road!
The only week points I can see are since it accelarates so hard and is the fastest of the electric vehicles, it can be less forgiving to bouncing off hard objects, like curbing, boards, etc. The newest version seems like the most durable of any 4wd currently on the market, or ever for that matter!

...Jim

[liled11]

Would you help me with this please? I would like to know the dimensions of the rear blue arm mount of the BJ4 part #1113. I am interested in the screw hole measurements between each hole. In particular the outermost holes that screw on to the chassis. If someone can measure the middle two holes that would be great as well. Thank you very much. I am trying to see if it will fit my new project car.

[T/Losi]

There just don't seem to be many bj4 owners on here. Visit http://www.rc10b4.com

Cheers

[liled11]

Thanks

[scrisp2]

I saw a BJ4 today for the first time on a website and it says that it uses Associated B44 parts. Does it share a lot of parts, or is it just a few parts that they have in common?

Also, if anyone has driven both the BJ4 and the B44, I'd love to hear your comments postive or negative, about each/either one.

Thanks!!