View Full Version : New length rule
StevePond
06-10-2004, 04:51 PM
After considerable discussion, we've decided that the intial length rule of 24 inches will be increased to 40 inches (1016mm) to accomodate 1/5 scale cars. The overall length of the longest body from FG (Mercedes CLK) is 37 inches, so we added a few inches to allow for some custom body work.
The rule was changed to open the contest up to people that want to try running bigger cars. I don't anticipate any other changes to the rules or to the venue. Thank you to everyone for their feedback.
Mike Keeney
06-10-2004, 11:33 PM
Works for me, Thanks. :D
Mike
Speedtester
06-11-2004, 12:00 AM
I was hoping it would have stayed with 1/8 scale cars, aww well.
Craps
06-11-2004, 02:21 AM
After considerable discussion, we've decided that the intial length rule of 24 inches will be increased to 40 inches (1016mm) to accomodate 1/5 scale cars.
Wow!
When you guys cave in, you guys really cave in big to the rule change and it makes me wonder how many changes there will be before the one year waiting period is up????
StevePond
06-11-2004, 12:35 PM
Craps - If you're really not big on this thing, and it's quite obvious you aren't by reading through your posts, then maybe you can just move on and stop sniping about EVERYTHING. It's getting a little old.
thefasttrack
06-11-2004, 05:04 PM
its about time someone said something about craps :mad:
I understand and agree with what Steve said.
On the other hand, Craps is probably the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to BL stuff.
He always take a lot of his time to respond to ppl in the BL forum and I 've never seen him starting flame war...
I think he is in a very good position to come to this challenge with a BL buggy prototype that he already has and could net some VERY impressive speed.
He's got the knowledge and experience, the good connection and friends and he's got the material needed.
Only very few ppl are at his level.
That doesn't give him anymore right than others, but I mean we need to know the ppl we are dealing with !
Peace on earth and keep-up the good job Steve, I know you'll be successfull with this challenge.
I'll shut-up now !
DFF
Craps
06-12-2004, 04:45 AM
Craps - If you're really not big on this thing, and it's quite obvious you aren't by reading through your posts, then maybe you can just move on and stop sniping about EVERYTHING. It's getting a little old.
OK Steve, you win! It's you're sandbox and you're rules! I'll play nice now!
Let me make it up to you with a steak dinner in Calif, wait a minute, everybody is vegatarians out there! Just kidding, but dinners on me when I get to Calif.
Daff
Thanks for the flowers, but people like Mr. Constructor., NIC, Rotary Rocket and DualBL are a huge source of information too.
Mike Keeney
06-12-2004, 05:31 PM
What about wheelie bars? Do they count as part of the overall length? I hope not as they would be an important safety device to prevent cars from getting airborne. If the car has 4 tires on the ground then the wheelie bar is of no consequence and doesn't contribute to a speed increase.
Thanks,
Mike
racerrandy
06-12-2004, 10:54 PM
I am pretty sure the length rule is total. But I am not sure that at c-note speeds they would do any good.
BPPSupermaxx
06-12-2004, 11:01 PM
Thanks Steve. That will make it more fun.
But how am I going to make my Knight Hauler with a trailer wiht 100 cells in it under 40 inches. LOL. Just kidding...
lerningdriver
06-13-2004, 12:14 AM
I'm not really into this too much, but I think mike keeney has a really good point. the wheelie bar, if anything, will only slow the car down, though not considerably. I think that 1/5 scale cars going at speeds as high as 150 mph (estimating?) could be a great danger to bystenders. making it count as part of the actual car may keep people from using it for safety.
EddieWeeks
06-13-2004, 12:39 AM
Great news.. I will be able to fit my AMT180 turbine on a 5th scale with out
having to shorten the chassis..
btw.. I am serious.. This challenge is not near a technical at the my last one..
http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/Rig2/FF/FF.html
Eddie Weeks
http://www.corpcomp.com
All I can say is "Wow", here fade away the electric versus gas battle LoL
DFF
Mike Keeney
06-13-2004, 03:47 AM
I am pretty sure the length rule is total. But I am not sure that at c-note speeds they would do any good.
Since this isn't a drag style race I don't think a wheelie bar would be necessary to get up to speed. But, it would help keep a heavier car like mine from rotating far enough to get airborne. 50 to 100 lbs moving at 150 mph won't leave too much time to duck, and would certainly hurt or kill someone if they got hit.
I think, for a multitude of reasons, I'll rig up something that will fire the chute if the car gets airborne.
Mike
racerrandy
06-13-2004, 11:05 AM
No problem Mike, I was just giving my .02. Thats the cool thing about this contest, you can build it any way you please!
Later,Randy.
Mike Keeney
06-13-2004, 01:19 PM
No problemo at all. I think you give much more than 2¢. I enjoy reading your posts. :)
Safety is such an important issue and I think we should have lots of discussion about it. Perhaps it should have its own thread.
Mike
StevePond
06-13-2004, 10:31 PM
Mike, any part of the car is included in the overall measurement, wheelie bars, wings, parachutes, etc. BTW - you probably already know this, but turbine engines must be directly connected to the drive wheels via a transmission of sorts. Thrust power is verboten. ;)
Mike Keeney
06-14-2004, 12:14 AM
Thanks for getting back to me about this. I still think that a wheelie bar for this type of event is more of a safety component than a performance enhancement. If the car raises off the front tires at full speed there is only one way to get it back under control, and that is to slow down. A set of wheelie bars might give a split second more time to get the car under control before it goes ballistic. The concern I have is that once any car gets airborne it can take off in any direction. If it's going fast enough it could easily hit someone diving to get out of the way. There's no way to be sure where it will go.
I hope this is something that we can continue to talk about later in the year when we've done some speed testing. If there is no safety benefit then I wouldn't put them on anyway. They're just added weight.
Thanks to Randy for starting the safety thread. I think we should continue this conversation in that thread.
Cheers,
Mike
EddieWeeks
06-14-2004, 12:38 AM
Steve:
My plan is to have the exhaust gas from the turbine blow into the
hot section of a turbocharger. Instead of the turbo turning a compressor
it will turn a gear witch is connected to the wheels..
The remaining gasses will be directed straight upward...
I am fairly sure this IS legal but I want to double check before
I build this thing..
Thanks
Eddie Weeks
colinradford
06-14-2004, 01:10 PM
40" seems a bit long to me, but makes it very easy to beat the record. (apart from time, money and being on the wrong continent!)
1 1000cc GSX-R 1000 or YZF R1 motorbike engine (150hp or so)
Maybe a turbo kit if you feel like it
1/5th scale front end and steering gear
Go Kart rear axle and chain.
Custom frame to join it together.
Should be easy to fit that in 40"!
Mike Keeney
06-14-2004, 07:35 PM
If this were just a contest about horsepower then I'd say you've got a good shot at the golden ring. But it's not all that hard to overpower a vehicles ability to stay on the road. That's what I think will be so exciting and challenging about this event. I'm going to bring a mini V8 powered car, but I couldn't begin to guess what will be the top dawg.
Cheers.
Mike
Grant Tokumi
06-14-2004, 08:13 PM
Mike, any part of the car is included in the overall measurement, wheelie bars, wings, parachutes, etc. ;)
Parachutes?? Just for clarification, are you saying that parachutes in their deployed (open) position needs to be within the overall 40" measurement limit as well? Or are you saying just the packed parachute on the vehicle needs to be wiithin the overall measurement?
RC-scientist
06-16-2004, 03:18 PM
This throws a big wrench in my plans.
This is turned into the fastest thing under 40" with radio control. The differnce? Well at 24 inches you really have to use traditional RC motors to make it work. At 40" I think I will make a frame that can carry 16 inch champ car wheels and pull apart my brand new ZX-10R and put that motor in it. It is good for 180hp or so. I hope you have increased the insurance on you liability wavier. I would think it would be a good idea since with this set up I should break 200mph. hell with that power it should hit 250mph. I have not been to Irwindale but I have a feeling the track wont know what hit it...
Is this getting out of hand? Either way I plan to win, and if I set a new track record so be it, I just hope everyone realizes what this means.
150 lbs with 180hp? Geared to hit a top speed of 300mph? Hold on to you hats folks...
racerrandy
06-16-2004, 06:41 PM
200!...250!.....Crack must grow on tree's where your from. :D
Martin Lee
06-16-2004, 07:00 PM
scientist, I hope you have an aerodynamics expert to hand.
Mike Keeney
06-16-2004, 10:45 PM
He'll need a pilot's license. ;)
Mike
crank throw wei
06-16-2004, 11:20 PM
Steve:
The remaining gasses will be directed straight upward...
I am fairly sure this IS legal but I want to double check before
I build this thing..
I too,need some clarification if this is legal.
Mike Keeney
06-17-2004, 12:08 AM
I sure don't don't know if this kind of setup would be legal, but even if it is it doesn't make much practical sense to me. It would be the equivalent of adding a ton of highly undesirable downforce. You might need a shovel to recover your car at the end of the run.
However, If turbine/jet engines were allowed, there would be no doubt in my mind that they would run away with the record.
Cheers,
Mike
Turbines or jets are allowed as long as they drive the wheels.
There are model helicopters that use a turbine engine to power the rotors through a gearbox. If you manage to put that in a car, you're the man! Very expensive if you crash though! :-)
Check out www.baileys.tv/jr.htm
H-Trainer
06-17-2004, 04:24 PM
Mike, that Rig looks like a genious piece of manufacturing, congratulations. Are you using a lot of electronical aid? The University of Zurich constructed a control system for helicopters, which seems to work well.
Yes, there are some helicopter turbines and even before JetCat and Jakadowsky started selling there helicopter turbines, some people built their own. However, I don't think that a single-axle design can be used in an RC car, as it's need a complex multi-speed transmission.
But, a two-axle design may work for cars. Say, the turbine's thrust turns a second rotor, which is connected to the drivetrain. I'm assuming that's what Mike is intending to build.
Losi Stealth
06-17-2004, 09:39 PM
I just spent a while looking through the rules and the discussion. I can understand the change in rules in some degree, but I also have a preference for the spirit of the competition. It seems that this competition should favor the same type of car that set the record in the first place, 1/10th scale or smaller.
I think there is too much room on a 1/5th scale, and it opens up the contest too much. I would support an "unlimited class" that includes anything larger than the original size, but also includes anything thrust powered. Maybe just for kicks, but I know someone can build a 1:1 scale car better than Monster Garage. They could probally drive it better too.
Just my 2 cents, I don't run this event, just follow it very closely. :cool:
Sigurd Ruschkow
06-18-2004, 04:52 AM
Mr Pond,
I am glad you changed the rules! Now, most of the RC cars are included into the race.
My car is more like between 1:5 and 1:4 scale so it will not fit into 40". I will try to redesign it to be 40" and see how my car works with this shorter length.
One cannot have it all. Still, I am glad you changed the rules.
Now, let's race!!!
Extreme Speed Electric RC CAR (http://www.ExtremeSpeedElectricRCCar.com)
Sigurd Ruschkowski
After considerable discussion, we've decided that the intial length rule of 24 inches will be increased to 40 inches (1016mm) to accomodate 1/5 scale cars. The overall length of the longest body from FG (Mercedes CLK) is 37 inches, so we added a few inches to allow for some custom body work.
The rule was changed to open the contest up to people that want to try running bigger cars. I don't anticipate any other changes to the rules or to the venue. Thank you to everyone for their feedback.
PeterV
06-18-2004, 08:46 PM
A big part of the WFRCCC's mission is to expose high-performance RC to a new audience. What better way to do that than with an event that can reach the mainstream media with a message like "RC cars exceeding 100mph!"? With that in mind, we wanted the rules to require cars that, while no doubt exotic and expensive, were still "toy sized". That way, when Joe Nonhobbyist sees the story, he might think "Wow, I had no idea toy cars could go that fast! I'm now going to visit Hobbytown and wipe out my Visa card". If the cars are huge, it's still a cool story, but the hobby may seem more like something for the ultra-hardcore, not anything for regular people.
But, upon reflection, it just didn't seem right to have a rule that instantly eliminates what many consider to be the ultimate RC machines. So welcome big cars...but I'm rooting for the "little" cars!
Mike Keeney
06-20-2004, 10:41 PM
I like your thinkin. :)
Mike
Skribble
06-21-2004, 12:38 AM
Mr Pond,
I am glad you changed the rules! Now, most of the RC cars are included into the race.
My car is more like between 1:5 and 1:4 scale so it will not fit into 40". I will try to redesign it to be 40" and see how my car works with this shorter length.
One cannot have it all. Still, I am glad you changed the rules.
Now, let's race!!!
Extreme Speed Electric RC CAR (http://www.ExtremeSpeedElectricRCCar.com)
Sigurd RuschkowskiNice .. I'll be watching your website now. :cool:
Oldway
06-21-2004, 12:23 PM
The track record for the 1/2 mile oval at Irwindale was set by a Super Modified at 118.781 mph. That is the average speed for 1/2 mile. That give him an estimated top speed of just under 140 mph (really just a guess on my part).
lerningdriver
06-21-2004, 03:57 PM
Mr Pond,
I am glad you changed the rules! Now, most of the RC cars are included into the race.
My car is more like between 1:5 and 1:4 scale so it will not fit into 40". I will try to redesign it to be 40" and see how my car works with this shorter length.
One cannot have it all. Still, I am glad you changed the rules.
Now, let's race!!!
Extreme Speed Electric RC CAR (http://www.ExtremeSpeedElectricRCCar.com)
Sigurd Ruschkowski
umm.. all i can say is wow! i looked at your website and seems like you really got a team of proffesionals for this.. now I'm anxious to see how fast you will go :D
i wish you the best of luck :)
IDMadMaxx
06-21-2004, 05:42 PM
JMHO: the 40" rule will likely eliminate any "real" R/C vehicles from the contest.
Consider making classes for reality-based vehicles and then a "run-whacha-brung" for all the "X-files" refugees.
ID Mad Maxx
Potato
06-22-2004, 07:13 AM
In my opinion 40" is way too large. You might as well eliminate the "individual" class, maybe replace it with "ridiculously wealthy individual" class. This new rule change has cut off a large number of people who could afford to build an fast and competitive 24" car, but could not afford to build a competitive 40" car. You've nearly doubled the length, and thus probably quadrupled the cost while eliminating three-fourths of potential entrants.
An average r/c car is not 40" long. How often has R/C Car Action featured cars 40" long? This is nearly like running full scale cars! I would be surprised to see competitive machines that even resemble what we think of as r/c cars.
I was very excited when I first heard about this contest, but I am extremely dissapointed in this new rule change, I see it as an unjudicious and imprudent choice, both in the spirit of what we call "r/c" cars and in the interest of attracting the most diverse and widespread competition.
DualBL
06-22-2004, 08:27 AM
who said that it has to be 40"?
some people want to run 40" cars, and yeah, they can cram more power, and will probably take the win, but why does that have to stop people with 1/10 touring cars, and pan cars from running.
this event is supposed to fun. take your head out of you know where, and just have some fun with this comp.
i'm getting extremely agravated w/ all the biching about track location, length, and all the other conflicts there have been. IMHO, RCCA is putting on an event, and if you want to run, then run, but if everything sucks for you, and you have to complain about it all, then just stay home, and play solitaire.
-Nick
I've been sitting back for a while watching all the whining and complaining about every damn thing related to this event and I've never seen a bigger bunch of sissies in my life. Shuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut uuuuuuuuuuuup. They increased the limit to 40 inches because 1/5 guys were whining that a 24-inch limit would exclude them. Now you're whining that they ARE included. They made an adjustment to include more people. That's the right decision IMO. Many of the whiners here are never going to the event anyway, so there's even less of a reason to bitch. STFU and be happy that someone is doing something new and you can be part of it if you choose.
DualBL, you beat me to it. :D Great minds think alike. ;)
Fastcar
06-22-2004, 09:49 AM
If I could come.... I'd run individual class and not be 40 in. long....maybe 30 at most....I'd think I'd be able to make a good run..
Go DualBL, go!! ;)
The competition is all about building the fastest car to go around this track within the rules and see how well you do against the competition in a direct battle. Should be a rush!
I'm not so sure bigger is better, and there are prizes for different classes anyways....
I think you can probably make a (thrust powered) car go much faster on a nice smooth straight road if you wanted to set a new world record. If that's someones goal he/she might be better off organizing an other event..
Robbert
racerrandy
06-22-2004, 06:01 PM
Well said BL, RCCA have committed themselves to a pretty cool thing and all people can do is whine! No one will be forced to enter! Catch a clue people.
Later,Randy.
kinda of the subject question but dose any one know how fast thoughs 1/4 scale dragsters are ? I mean thats like a smaller car it seems, but put into a diffrent, up scale class because of there length.
minitdriver
06-27-2004, 05:06 PM
Here is an idea for u 1/5 scalers. Most of those engines r similar to go-ped engines. I have a go-ped with the RC motor from Zenoah. with only apipe, air-filter and spindle i can get to about 35+.Now thats a 5 or 6 horse motor pushing near 190-200lbs. put that motor in a 5th scale which is about 50+lbs and you've got a speedmachine.
RC Rodder
07-02-2004, 10:23 AM
Steve, great to see the size has been increased....
40 inches makes it easier to fit the plans in and keep weight to a bare minimum.
Now I just need to redesign my Carbon fiber plans as well as increase the demension of the Lexan body that we are making....
But I will tell you what, anything over 150 mph is going to be insane..... Steve do you remember way back when when that HPI car exploded on the track at over 140? I think it was in the area of total insanity and never qualified because only parts crossed the finish?LOL
Maybe this will be the same?
Thanks
Tom
SpyderWebRC@hotmail.com
www.rcmonsterxtreme.com
minitdriver
07-18-2004, 01:31 AM
Well i guess 5th scales are out because nobody has the "money" to do it.If I could I would be working on my idea right now,but I can't.I think that if it was thought out a 5th scale could be a good contendor.To sad that maybe a few people are going to be using them.
sniff sniff
Ken
studysession
07-22-2004, 06:06 PM
Personally - I can understand why you would make the rule change. But I liked it better when it was 24 to keep the 1/10 or 1/8 scale range.
minitdriver
07-26-2004, 10:09 PM
What does that change though? Nothing.There will be people with 5th scales there just not as many as the 10th or 8th scales.I want to hear from people who will be entering 5th scales.I want to hear about test runs and the problems they had to overcome.I know eddieweicks(sorry about spelling) has a turbine powered 5th scale that I would like to hear more about.5th scalers if you respond to this post you don't have to say exactly what your running I just want to hear your predictions and hear how well your projects are doing.ANY RESPONSE TO THIS WILL BE APPRECIATED!!!
Ken
A big part of the WFRCCC's mission is to expose high-performance RC to a new audience. What better way to do that than with an event that can reach the mainstream media with a message like "RC cars exceeding 100mph!"? With that in mind, we wanted the rules to require cars that, while no doubt exotic and expensive, were still "toy sized". That way, when Joe Nonhobbyist sees the story, he might think "Wow, I had no idea toy cars could go that fast! I'm now going to visit Hobbytown and wipe out my Visa card". If the cars are huge, it's still a cool story, but the hobby may seem more like something for the ultra-hardcore, not anything for regular people.
But, upon reflection, it just didn't seem right to have a rule that instantly eliminates what many consider to be the ultimate RC machines. So welcome big cars...but I'm rooting for the "little" cars!
I think peter here ^^ has a point, Most peoplewould by an 10th,8th scale over a 5th or 6th scale :eek:
minitdriver
08-28-2004, 04:15 AM
Ya but I can name 2 people using 5th sclaes right now.Count 3 if I were attending.It's like Trans -am racing(it kills me to relate this to big scale racing).You can start out with a BMW or a Corvette with decent sponsorship but then there the Porsche whichs costs more yes but look at how many are in the field!Yes 10 and 8th scales are cheaper but price depends on how much you want that title of worlds fastest RC.
Stay classy readers
Ken
studysession
08-28-2004, 04:17 AM
I am using 10th scale - http://studysession.com
studysession
08-28-2004, 04:18 AM
I think it will take anything bigger than 1/8 scale to much room to get up to speed. But that is just my opinion.
I like your Brushless tc3 I like thoughs rims you got there. Cool site study
studysession
08-28-2004, 05:15 PM
Thanks - just posted videos today. :)