Tamiya Gravel Hound DF-02 Forum [Archive] - Page 14

JDT

05-20-2008, 10:29 AM

If you got the $30 just order both the aluminum front tower and the sqaure racing carbon fibre one, you can put the aluminum one in the stock location and bolt the carbon fibre one on front of it like in my picture on page 113, its hard to say if dinball will send you the improved version that is solid like in the pic or the lightened version with the holes like is shown on dinballs site, I have never heard of anyone breaking the improved version but I wanted to add the carbon fibre one on the front to make sure, over a year with the dual setup and no failures, my buddy runs the stock plastic one with the upper shock mounts cut off and the sqaure carbon fibre one in front like I do and he has had no problems either so if you have a limited budget maybe start with the carbon only but since you don't have a stock one anymore thas $8 for the parts tree, its good to have the extra rear tower anyway so its kind of worth it but for an extra $2 you could go aluminum in the front. I agree GPM and Yeah are not the best brands but they make the most options for the df 02, tobee craft has some nice hardened steel outdrives and diff cups and such and square racing has a few items that rival the tamiya quality, I run all brands on my car, its okay except no one uses the same blue anodizing lol.

Lil Chevy

06-23-2008, 06:26 PM

What up guys where you at... how good are our cars on the tracks??? I just ordered some control arms, and shock tower... I will be going with lipo or some high mah nimh batteries... here in Colorado alot of associated cars run the tracks...

JDT

06-26-2008, 12:33 PM

it will be outclassed by pretty much all of the current four wheel drive buggies available, that being said, turnbuckles, shocks and diffs to suite your driving style can make it not only compete but win, a somewhat local 1/8 buggy hotshot built his kids car to race and ended up winning a couple times last season when his kid didn't make it to race. If you want to race for fun its ok, but if you are serious go for a durga or df 03 in tamiya land, losi, kyosho and associated rule the roast around here to but that is no reason to buy one, racing should be fun, 4wd is always so harry and wreck central I like having a tank of a car, who cares if its 100 grams to heavy it takes a hit much better.

Lil Chevy

06-29-2008, 12:01 AM

right on i just do it for fun anyway... just to get some track time... I will upgrade to a Durga or something else later down the linee... your right turnbuckles, shocks etc will make the diff

JDT

06-30-2008, 09:20 AM

another choice could be the new MS DF 03, its a dark impact loaded up with shocks, turnbuckles, slipper, cvds etc, its number 49491, on sale in japan for preorder at under $200. I like the df 02 more for bashing but the df 03 can be a competative racer a little easier, the durga is going to be hard to ignore also as the hop up parts just keep stacking up, I don't like belts so I have been able to resist thus far lol.

Lil Chevy

07-10-2008, 10:28 PM

I'm looking at it for later on.. but I going to try to get my df 02 ready for some practice track time.. fo sho... but that Durga is one bad mofo

cholonya

07-14-2008, 03:42 PM

hey guys,
what is the difference of the following two motors? I am intending to buy one of them, they look very similar in specs but they're pretty much different in price. i will use them with 4.1" monster trucks and a new 8t esc.

Note: I dont use my df-02 off-road much. I need more speed but not loosing much torque.

Option-1:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJAJ1&P=7

Option-2:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001424171&I=LXNMM6&P=K

cholonya

07-14-2008, 07:37 PM

by the way, here's the combination i will upgrade. any ideas??
I want to speed up my df-02 without loosing much torque. Does this combination looks OK? or should i consider any other motor/esc/tire-wheel/gearing??
motor: Team Orion 12 Turn Double Formula SV2 Pro BB (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJAJ1&P=7)
esc: DuraTrax IntelliSpeed 12T Modified Reverse ESC (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAXT9&P=7)
wheel: HPI SS Monster Wheel Rear Black D (2) (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=HPIC2140&P=K)
tire: Panther Cobra Medium Soft Truck Tire (2) (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=PAHC1235&P=K)
Gearing: 16/70
resulting rollout ratio: 1.132

motor option-2: Traxxas Titan 550 Motor 12T (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001424171&I=LXNMM6&P=K)

szan

07-15-2008, 01:37 AM

szan

07-15-2008, 01:40 AM

cholonya

07-15-2008, 07:25 AM

then this esc should be ok right??

DuraTrax IntelliSpeed 8T Racing Reverse ESC (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAXU0&P=7)

szan

07-15-2008, 07:29 AM

then this esc should be ok right??

DuraTrax IntelliSpeed 8T Racing Reverse ESC (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAXU0&P=7)

It will be fine !

cholonya

07-19-2008, 10:45 AM

OK, now it's time for the battery pack :D

what kind of battery pack do you suggest for this motor-esc combination??

I'm thinking of Intellect NiHM Battery 4600mAh 7.2V (http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-subc-pack-intellect-nihm-battery-4600mah-free-giftscombo-cb00-p-26281.html). They offer two packs and the price looks good, right?

Lil Chevy

07-19-2008, 03:29 PM

I was thinking of the same thing... that's a good combo... what type of charger are you going to run...

cholonya

07-19-2008, 03:45 PM

I have a Carson Turbo 6 charger. it's a 900mah charger with 100mah trickle capability. i dont consider buying a new one now. i guess it's capable enough for now.

cholonya

07-19-2008, 04:45 PM

by the way, how about the damper oil? since i'm gonna use some monster wheels, i think i should use some thick oil right?

JDT

07-19-2008, 04:48 PM

I hate to be a spoil sport but with that big of a tire I would estimate that 12 turn will be smoked in the first run, the lowest I would consider going with a four inch tall tire is a 17 turn at 70/16 gearing, even then I melted the endbell off when covered up tight to winter running, the 16 turn unsolderied the wires for the brushes it got so hot, the truck body helped some so I suppose cutting the stock body around the motor may help some, if you are stuck on the 12 turn get a heatsync fan for the motor for sure, that probably won't be enough however but for $10 its worth a try to keep the 12 turn from melting down.

JDT

07-19-2008, 04:49 PM

I use the duratrax bx shocks with 40 weight, I ran 50 weight in the stock and tamiya option shocks.

cholonya

07-20-2008, 03:48 PM

oh really. i already ordered the 12t motor. can i further increase the gear ratio? i'll use 16t pinion with 70t spur. i think smaller pinions do not fit on the motor mount. is this correct?

szan

07-21-2008, 01:07 AM

For the battery and ESC, don't forget to change the connectors to dean type like this :
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKX39&P=ML

If not you'll have some plastic melting :-) Tamiya connectors are only for low current
motors.

cholonya

07-21-2008, 07:56 AM

really, i didnt know that actually. thanks for the tip ;)

cholonya

07-21-2008, 05:45 PM

hey, do you know if there's a spur bigger than 70t for RS? i know there are plenty of bigger spurs but any1 fit to the motor mount?

JDT

07-22-2008, 08:17 AM

I got a spur adapter from tobee craft racing #42880, its the right thickness for use in the df 02 but I had to have traxxas spur gears bored out to fit onto it and then file the motor mount to get some adjustment. The spurs however did not hold up nearly as well as the tamiya ones, I would suggest you run the stock sized tires on the 12 turn at 70/16 and get yourselft a 17 or 19 turn to run with those big tires until you can afford brushless, the mamba 4600 will have no problems turning the bigger tires at 70/16.

cholonya

07-22-2008, 08:44 AM

well, i was considering the same thing but isn't 70/16 gearing is a bit much for the stock tires?? i mean they are something like 2,5" in diameter right? then if i use 70/16, then rollout ratio will be something like 0,7. i think i should stick with the stock gearing.

cholonya

07-22-2008, 01:46 PM

another question (maybe silly one, but i don have any experience with BL motors)
these four have the same price but the last one has the best motor i guess. so can i choose any of them for my rising storm??

Castle Creations 1/10 Mamba Max + 4600 kV Combo (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUTA4&P=7)
Castle Creations 1/10 Mamba Max + 5700 kV Combo (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUTA5&P=7)
Castle Creations 1/10 Mamba Max + 6900 kV Combo (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUTA6&P=7)
Castle Creations 1/10 Mamba Max + 7700 kV Combo (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUTA7&P=7)

szan

07-22-2008, 01:58 PM

The ESC is the same for these 4 models. Higher the kV is, more power the motor has (like turns with brushed one).
For the DF-02, the 5700kV should be the best choice. Get the 4600kV if you use big tires. Get 6900kV for a more on-road practice.
I personally have a 6900kV, and it's a crasy beast, but a little too hot on off-road I think...

I recommend Bishop http://www.b-p-p.com/home.php for best price on these combos, I recently had good experience with this shop.

Bye

cholonya

07-22-2008, 02:10 PM

woa, thanks for the fast response szan :) u'r my hero :))

cholonya

07-22-2008, 02:13 PM

hey, isn't it a little bit fishy here? how come this site is so cheap?

szan

07-23-2008, 03:12 AM

And free shipping costs are really interesting !
You can order some dean plugs there too.

cholonya

07-23-2008, 05:32 AM

yes they are! but isn't it weird? makes me think twice actually.

JDT

07-23-2008, 07:57 AM

70/16 is what you will want for the stock tires on a 12 turn brushed, it will still be far faster than stock as the 12 turn is pushing much more rpm, l lower kv brushless you get more torque so you can run a 4 inch tall tire at 70/16 even thought he rollout ratio would advise against it, the 5700 mamba runs hot at 70/16 with a four inch tire, so I would get the mm 4600, its will allow the big tire setup to run like the stock tires and the 12 turn, just as fast but 5 times the basher.
As far as bishop goes I can't say enough good things about Troy, he did have a deadbeat employee that screwed a couple orders up and there have been a few people complain about lost shipments on international orders but several australians I know on the rczone df 02 board got them without issue, I have ordered from him twice and always got my stuff very quickly, the best thing about him is the more you order the better the prices get

cholonya

07-23-2008, 08:30 AM

so even though rollout ratio is 0.88 for 70/16 gearing with stock tires, u say it's ok?

JDT

07-23-2008, 12:49 PM

yes with that low turn of a motor you loose torque and gain rpm, you need to gear it down, my first ever df 02 motor was a 12 turn speed gems, with stock gearing it was a dog off the start, ran hotter than heck and killed the gp 3300s in less than 3 minutes, once I regeared it to 70/16 it was fine and ran the way I always thought it should have all along, you may be able to push you luck to 70/17 but for 1-2 mph I would not push it as the 12 turn is borderline hot even at 70/16 IMO.

cholonya

07-24-2008, 04:46 AM

ok then 70/16 it is ;)

JDT

07-24-2008, 10:45 AM

I would also get a spair 16 tooth for the stock motor so you can run the bigger tires sometimes to, it will just help the silver can get them biggens' turning a little easier, the silver can suvived at least a month of bashes geared 70/16 with 4 inch tires, it was slightly slower than stock on the top end but bashes 4 times better, if you run both setups from time to time it will motivate you to go brushless as its the best of both worlds, big power and big tires lol.

JDT

07-24-2008, 11:24 AM

wanna drag a buddy into the hobby, $125.25 RTR rising storm, I am sure this must be the closeout, tower is still at $175

http://www.rocousa.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamTxt=57731&txtsearchParamCat=ALL&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch

cholonya

07-24-2008, 11:40 AM

hey, i never thought about that. so u say silvercan can handle the 4" tires, ok i'll give that a try :) since i wont be able to run 4" tires with my 12t motor, this would be a good chance.
by the way, i already started saving money for brushless mamba max 4600 combo ;)

cholonya

07-29-2008, 07:22 AM

hey, do you know what is the pitch of the stock spur gear? is it 32 or 48??

szan

07-29-2008, 09:02 AM

None, it's "metric 0.6 module" ! Be carefull, don't buy some classic "48 pitch".
But some manufacturers (like robinsonracing) call them "metric" 48 pitch too.

A lot of good informations about the DF-02 on this site :
http://xyzzy.dyn.dhs.org/df02/index.php?action=show&cat=0

Enjoy !

cholonya

07-29-2008, 03:40 PM

thanks szan ;)
by the way, HPI SS Monster Wheel Front Black D (2) (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXM871) does not have hexagonal slot inside, so i cannot fit them to the drive shafts :( I thought they were the same as HPI SS Monster Wheel Rear Black D (2) (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXM875) but they are not! Rear ones fit perfectly but the front types do not :( and there is no adaptor to fit them :( i think i bought them for nothing :( now i have to order one pair of rear ones too. why don't they put a sign or warning about it.

szan

07-30-2008, 01:46 AM

I have big wheels/tires too, I've choosen the Tamiya Twin Detonator ones.
So no problem to fit the df-02 :)

JDT

07-31-2008, 08:26 AM

the rims are like that due to all the sissy 2wd trucks and buggies out there, they use a bearing on the front rather than a hex as there is no need for the hex as theres nothing turning it, pretty much all the manufacturers do it even tamiya, I usually try to warn people to get two sets of the rears, it probably in this forum at least 4 times but needless to say that don't help you now of course. I have a couple sets of the hpi monster wheels they hold up very well, you will like then, the schorch ain't bad either I have one set of them, the split 5 wheels just felt to heavy in the package so I never tried them. I run hpi superstars on the smaller buggy hawg tires as I got rears all around.

cholonya

07-31-2008, 08:30 AM

well, too late for now :) i guess i'm gonna sell these on ebay or something and get two more rear ones..
by the way, I got my hop-up parts from hong kong toda :) not all of them, only the first party :)) i'll put up some photos soon ;)

cholonya

07-31-2008, 06:14 PM

yes guys, here is the first part of the hop-ups :)

I have a little problem though, if i tighten the screw of front left steering knuckle (this one (http://i9.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/ec/3c/dca4_1.JPG)) to the c-hub (here (http://i18.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/ed/a7/6692_1.JPG)) a little much, it doesn't swing at all disabling the steering effect. however, if a loosen it, then the screw itself may fall off. i tried using washers but that doesnt help at all. what is interesting is that, no matter how tighten it on the other side (right), knuckle swings freely. what should i do?

anyway, here are the pics :)
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8339/89956973cz8.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=89956973cz8.jpg) http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/4431/42802120pd7.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=42802120pd7.jpg) http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/2253/33051410hs1.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=33051410hs1.jpg) http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9775/34651307nj7.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=34651307nj7.jpg) http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4538/27227051df8.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=27227051df8.jpg)

szan

08-01-2008, 01:44 AM

Hi,

Great blue tuned truggy ! Are you planning to upgrade damper, upper arms and cup/cvs too ?
For your c-hub/knuckle pb, you can glue the screw and just tigh it as needed to not disturb the swing of the pieces. You should also glue all screws that are between metal/metal fixation, if not, with vibrations, they will fall during the run (it's the main pb with all these metal parts). Don't worry, you can unscrew them all, even with glue on them :)

Bye

cholonya

08-01-2008, 03:30 AM

yes, the dampers and the upper arms are on the way ;) and thanks for the tip, i have a tire glue by the way, is it ok for the job?

szan

08-01-2008, 04:19 AM

Yep !

cholonya

08-08-2008, 05:52 PM

another question :)
what damper oil should I use with the big tires and stock tires??
I'm considering to buy Tamiya medium oil set (500, 600, 700). what do you suggest??

dino1985

08-09-2008, 01:38 AM

Hey guys im just a newbie in this forum, my df-02 is using a 17D turn motor and my gear setup that im using are 19/67, spur/pinion.

Just one question.

Can i go down a couple motor turns, before i need to change my gears?

cholonya

08-11-2008, 06:07 PM

well, your gearing ratio is low, so i don recommend you to go down too much. but a couple turns should not be a big problem i guess. maybe a fan would be fine to keep cool.

dino1985

08-12-2008, 04:05 AM

well, your gearing ratio is low, so i don recommend you to go down too much. but a couple turns should not be a big problem i guess. maybe a fan would be fine to keep cool.

You where right it was too low. After a couple of minutes it started to smell like burnt metal.
Plus it didn't give me good top speed. But the motor okay. I changed the gearing to 22/67.

cholonya

08-12-2008, 05:06 PM

dino1985

08-13-2008, 02:21 AM

but now it's even smaller, your motor will be hotter than the 19/67 case. if you use smaller pinion or bigger spur, then you gain torque but lose speed (also strain on the motor decreases). If you use larger pinion or smaller spur than you lose torque but gain speed (your motor will be in great strain and get hot).
So you need to find the compromise...

But from my experience the 19/67 cooked the motor however the 22/67 didn't cook it at all. It must be just the motor thats all.

one more thing can you use non-tamiya pitch spur and pinions?

JDT

08-13-2008, 06:37 AM

dino1985

08-13-2008, 07:23 AM

I was able to get a spur adapter from tobee craft racing, it however required traxxas spur gears to be center bored in order to fit, I did it to get larger tires and lower turn motors, it was not nearly as beefy as the stock spur however and it was usually a couple runs and it was done type of thing. It seems to me you are wanting speed however and not power so you would actually want a smaller spur and larger pinion, the tt 01 is the sister car to the df 02, it uses the same motor mount it just lays on the left side of the chassis rather than the right, you can get 55 and 58 tooth spurs for it, its been a couple years but I think the pinions are in the mid 20s, this lowers the final drive ratio even further than 67/22 of course. Check the tt 01 boards for more info or search online for a tt 01 manual, when I had a tt 01 a couple guys were exploring using the HPI PRO 4 spur holder to get "normal" 48 pitch gears on their tt 01s but they were doing it to get a 65 tooth spur for deeper gearing and super hot 8 and 9 turn motors, needless to say depending on what pinion fit that would not be much improvement over the 67/22.

Funny thing is that the other day i had to use the motor mount of the tt 01 because the df 02 motor mount was smashed outward, when my df-02 fell off a half pipe.

I am not really after for speed I tried that once with a 12 turn, it almost fried the esc, battery connectors and everything else. It seems that 17 turn is a sensible motor for my applications. I'll just buy a lazer-zx-5 or e-firestorm instead in the near future because i need a new rc badly.

One thing i want to definitely try is subtituting the df-02 67 spur with the tt-01 61 spur whilst using the same pinion. I guess it would be definitely faster than 67/22 set up, just don't know would it behave on a off-road track.

JDT

08-13-2008, 10:24 AM

the lazer is a pretty nice unit but can be somewhat fragile compaired to a df 02 and much more costly to repair, if I were you I would hold out a little longer for the CEN ME 10, a real truck sized 4wd electric truck that is coming from CEN, it was supposed to be out mid summer but by my count that is passed so who knows, hopefully by xmas, its rtr only but at $250 or under($229 for the nitro version at my LHS) it promises to be a very nice unit, I bashed the nirto version(90+% parts share from the rumors) and its very durable and other than the annoying one banger nitro screaming at me I liked it alot.

cholonya

08-13-2008, 08:41 PM

this will be completely irrelevant but I'm having a receiver problem I guess. When I steer to right, servo responses and the wheels turn right normally, but when I steer to left, servo turns left suddenly and comes back somehere between full left and idle. I played around with the trims, tried using a new servo or reversing the servo but nothing happens. What do you think it could be?

JDT

08-14-2008, 10:54 AM

I would try resetting the radio, take the batteries out and set it up like new, the only thing I could think of other than a miscalibration is the actual gears inside the radio are screwed up but that is very unlikely, if dropped usually the wheel will bust all the way off before it damages anything inside.

cholonya

08-14-2008, 01:20 PM

I never dropped Tx. Resetting or using brand new batteries don't work. Maybe I should take the wheel off and check inside.

cholonya

08-16-2008, 08:55 AM

Ok modifications are almost over. What I need last are the front and rear upper arms. When they come, the car will be full :) Now it's time for a brushless motor-esc set :))

Here are the photos, sorry for the pure resolution, I don have my digi-cam with me now :)

jasonw

09-23-2008, 07:55 PM

Howdy. I was just browsing around and my eyes caught this thread as having the most posts. Is the gravel hound really that popular? I have seen it around for a while but never actually had one.

JDT

09-23-2008, 08:39 PM

its the best $100 you can spend in rc for a backyard basher, tough and simple combined with metal gear diffs for hundreds of hours of backyard fun, with a low kv brushless system and some truck tires it really shines. I have had 13 or so 10th 4wd buggies, 2 df 02s are all that remain, that should say something. Good beginner car but alot of people move on then realize how great it was and bust out there "old" car.

wbzipf

10-23-2008, 01:13 PM

If so, how does it compare to the field?

JDT

10-25-2008, 10:59 AM

you would need to be a world class driver to hand with b 44s and xxx4s with this car on the race track IMO.

Steve at Danfor

11-24-2008, 07:15 AM

Hi - I am a newbie with high hopes, working on souping up a new gravel hound kit - I got the gear washer and there does not seem to be much provisions for any part like that in the instructions - Can anyone give me an answer as to if it fits beside the spur gear as I think it should. Thanks - Steve

JDT

11-24-2008, 01:33 PM

if you are talking about the tobee craft racing gear washer, yes it does fit in front of the spur gear where the plastic one is stock

Steve at Danfor

11-24-2008, 01:42 PM

Thanks Bro - I am an old guy trying to realize my dreams that I had as a kid in the sixties. I may need some more help. I am awaiting a Mamba 5600 system for the motor & ESC. I will run a lipo battery. Got Tamiya aluminum dampers. I used heavy motor additive (thick engine treatment to seal leaks) in the diffs to stiffen them up. Will just that be OK. Thanks - Steve - up in Ottawa Canada

timie1

11-24-2008, 02:58 PM

Wow, a newbie who doesn't ask dumb questions :D
Welcome to the land of RC.
I would definitely do something with the shocks, just like you're doing. It really does have crap suspension geometry for a buggy, so any improvement you can do to the suspension is great. It's too low, and combined with bad geometry, it slaps on the ground a lot, even more than my onroad car, which, considering is only 5mm or so off the ground, that's quite bad really.

I've used engine grease available from Walmart to stiffen up the diffs which works great. So I imagine your additive will be fine.

I would recommend getting some proper tires such as these for the rear http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU13&P=7 and these for the front http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU14&P=7 and glue them onto your stock rims.
The extra ground clearance makes them worth their weight in gold. Also, you'll get more top speed and handle a lot better especially onroad and even offroad and they'll last a LOT longer than the kit spiked tires.

Steve at Danfor

11-25-2008, 08:44 AM

Thanks Timie1 - Glad to know I am on the right track - I will be running this buggy off-road on a hard pack sand base with a fair bit of loose sand and gravel on top. I want the extra ground clearance but need tires that will be good on such a surface. Are these still the ones or do you guys have any other ideas. It's not quite sandy enough for the paddle type tires in my view - Course I've never even operated an RC car - I did buy a Tamteck Frog to practice with however! Thanks Again - Steve

JDT

11-26-2008, 08:07 PM

with brushless power you will have traction problems with pretty much any tire so it will be a learning to drive type of thing, you picked a good car to come in with, I will never sell mine even though I have had 12 at least since it was purchased, best $100 you can spend in rc, if that heavy grease don't work out I would advise to get the sqaure tt 01 spool for the rear, it kicks butt, beautifully crafted hunk o aluminum, the silly forum won't let me post the picture again, its in this forum somewhere lol.

timie1

11-27-2008, 04:22 AM

Actually, just in the last week I've put my brushless in my gravel hound. I'm running the VXL motor and the Mamba Max esc. The good, and bad, thing about the VXL motor by Traxxas, is it's 550 size motor, but runs at a normal voltage, not 2 six cell packs. The bad thing is it doesn't always fit in a 1/10 car. Either the shaft is too long, or the can is too long. However, with the DF02, it just fits, barely, but it fits. Also being a 550 size, it can take gearing well, so I've got it geared as high as possible. The 67 spur and 22 pinion.

On 7 cells, or even 6 cells, the gravel hound gets along nicely indeed. I might take a video of it if anybody is interested. I'm running the stock spiked tires, although now they are slicks. It's also very chilly out here now, so there is no grip to be had in warm asphalt.

My point is, being the gravel hound is 4wd, the lack of grip isn't as much a problem as it is in ANY 2wd car. With any brushless, in any car, grip is always going to be limited. It's not JUST the problem isolated with the DF02 chassis. If I showed you a video of the same system and power in my B4 compared to my Gravel Hound, you'll see that the 4wd makes a big difference, even with inferior tires (I'm running those prolines Dirt Hawgs on my B4).

Hehehe, I bought those prolines for my Gravel Hound. But then later I got my B4 and decided I'd rather put the tires on that, seeing as the chassis is more suited to brushless, with slipper gear, better suspension and all. So all my invested $$ in tires for my Gravel hound got put into the B4 instead :)

EDIT
I just re-read your last reply Steve@Danfor, you know, I don't know what the best tires would be to run on a hard packed sand. I've never done it :) I used to religiously use my Tamiya Grasshopper, which came with some cool sand tires. They were sort of like the paddle tires now, but way smaller paddles and more of them. About 20 years ago I took that on a beach and they were ok. I had nothing to compare it to though.

I am thinking maybe these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFHL8&P=7 would be good for hard packed sand, but it's only an idea. Generally spiked tires, like the kit spikes are good for short grass, so for a loose surface, but hard packed, like dry clay with a fine dirt over it, the finer spikes are better. But don't take what I'm saying as gospel as I don't have much experience racing and picking tires. The only tires I've bought are the dirt hawg ones :D

Steve at Danfor

11-27-2008, 04:43 AM

I am getting it on EBay today for $19. - I still have not chosen the motor and ESC that I will run. (Budget is about $150.) I do want to get some more clearance and believe the way to go is in larger wheels - I have been lurking and reading a lot about the various setups but would welcome your advice. I have to make the right decision to ensure all parts are compatable (size of wheels, pinion & spur gear) Thanks again - Steve

Steve at Danfor

11-27-2008, 05:00 AM

Hi Timie1 - Those tires definately look like the ones for me - I like your info regarding the VXL motor - I shall read about those some more now - Steve

timie1

11-27-2008, 05:38 AM

If you're budget is tight, then I would get the Sidewinder ESC and a VXL motor. The ESC is about $70, and the VXL motor is about $40 - or at least that's what I paid for a brand new one.

The VXL motor is a very efficient motor. The other day, I went for a walk, and I took my Gravel Hound with me. It was like walking a dog :D I drove it in front of me as I walked the streets, lol. Anyway, on my 4600mah pack, the walk, and therefore the battery, lasted half an hour give or take a few minutes. I got back home and the batteries in my transmitter were dead, but the one in the car had plenty of charge in it. Since putting the VXL in, I haven't flattened a battery in the car. I just get bored, or cold, so I pack it up. I like that!!! Not flattening a battery when I go for a run!! I don't think I'd get that out of my 5700 motor.

If you were to go the route of bigger tires, like those truck rims in previous pages of this post, then getting the VXL would be a neccessity. I don't think any other 1/10 motor would work well with big tires.

The problem with brushless is because of their gobs of torque, you don't really notice when it's over geared. It's not like a brushed motor that just runs like crap when it's really overgeared. So, the only way to tell is when the motor gets really hot, over 200°F, which is not adviseable.

I think that the VXL would be the best motor, as I already said. It's got loads of torque, and it's a 550 size, so it thrives on being overgeared. Putting big tires will essentially over gear it. My friend put some truck wheels on, and what was a quick car on a brushed 23 turn motor, became a real snail-car. Changing the gears to be as low as possible didn't help any. It's just those big wheels really shows the lack of torque in most motors.

I'll take a video of my car going with the VXL so you can see. I've never seen a movie of a DF02 car with a VXL going in it, so I'm sure others will want to see it going :)

Steve at Danfor

11-27-2008, 06:34 AM

Thanks for the great help Timie1 - I don't want the big tires - Just some oversized stock type to give that needed clearance like the ones you've shown me. I hope to keep the gearing stock or close to it - That VXL motor sounds like the way to go - Would DF-03 rims be worth it?

timie1

11-27-2008, 02:17 PM

I don't have any DF03 rims, so I'm only going on what people have said. They are a true 2.2" rim, whereas the Df02 rims are 2.1somethingorrather". You would be advised to get them based on size alone if you plan to get standard 2.2" rims. However, 2.2" tires fit on the DF02 rims, just make sure the glue you use is decent CA glue. You'd also have to glue any tires on standard 2.2 rims.

The thing you'd have to be careful of is getting rims with the correct offset and mounting hardware. I'm 95% sure the DF03 rims are the same offset, and I'm 100% sure the mounting is the same, 12mm hex.

I've said it so many times in other various posts, so forgive me if I say it here and I've already said it - I've lost count - the bullet connectors on the VXL motor are smaller than those on the Mamba and Sidewinder ESC. So you'll have to buy a pack of 3 connectors if you plan on keeping the things disconnectable without any hassle. As long as you can solder, then that is a piece of cake. Decent connectors that fit the Castle products are 4mm, and any brand will work. I had to buy the Venom ones cos they are the only ones my LHS had that fit. They were about $4 for 3 pair. The VXL ones are 3mm. I was annoyed when I first discovered the different sizes - nobody had told me when I was buying or researching online.

- Andrew

Steve at Danfor

11-27-2008, 02:51 PM

OK Andrew - I will have no problems witht the soldering and thanks for telling me that to save me some time and trouble. I am considering my tire options as I believe I will stay with the stock rims. Im not in a big rush for the tires as its gonna be winter here for 5 months now. Hmm - Steve

timie1

11-27-2008, 03:29 PM

Heheh, I know I keep coming back with more advice. Why don't I just say it all in one shot? :D

If you're in no rush, and your budget is limited, then Ebay could be your friend. It depends where you live mind you. Shipping can be a rip off if you're outside of USA.

Bishop Power Products, http://b-p-p.com/home.php is about the cheapest thing online that isn't an ebay seller. Just having been to their site, they are under new management!!!!!
That is good, because if you've done your research, you'll see there is a thread on this forum and it had some bad rep. I bought my Mamba 5700 combo from them. I had some hassle getting it, but I got it in the end. Others have had the exact same experience as me from Bishops, but haven't been as lucky in the end. However, with new management, their service can only improve. Maybe wait a while for the new management to get there A into G. It's up to you.

Also, finding a VXL motor on ebay is easy as so many people buy a VXL stampede or something, only to rip it apart and flick off each part separately before they use a single thing. That seems like dumb logic to me, what with Ebay's seller fees, but they do it, so take advantage of it. I had my brand new VXL motor shipped to me for $46US. If I bought it from say, Tower Hobbies, they charge $75 plus $19 shipping plus customs fees into Canada (they always charge customs from Tower Hobbies).

So, if you're patient, watch Ebay with a beady eye, you're sure to get some bargains on there :D

Good luck, and keep us posted

-Andrew

Steve at Danfor

11-27-2008, 03:50 PM

Yes Andrew - I love EBay - I am selling off my stamp collection to finance my RC habit - I got into Fast Electric Boats last year and got a Hyperion Duo charger for lipos so I am all set - I am also working on an RC18B kit I got on EBay very cheap 70$ - My Tamiya Plasma Edge was 72$. I just order a Mamba Max combo for my 1/18 Associated RC18B from Bishops last week - Got a great price too - just hope it makes it to Ottawa. I have a Castle Link programmer too so I will go for a Castle product like the Mamba ESC we spoke of - How about one of their motors too in a combo? And some truck tires? :)- Steve

timie1

11-27-2008, 10:12 PM

Steve.....Woo hoo, another Canadian! ahhh, that I can understand. Stamps aren't as fun as RC :D

Castle's ESC's are covered in some water resistant coating, so that Sidewinder may be quite waterproof, even more than the Mamba Max. They say the USB port on the MM is what you have to cover if you intend to get it wet. But without the USB port on the Sidewinder, in theory you should be safe for winter running. I wish somebody would make a truly 100% waterproof ESC for a 1/10 or 1/8 car or truck. A waterproof double motor brushless ESC for my emaxx would be ideal. :)

- Andrew

Steve at Danfor

11-28-2008, 07:42 AM

How about these:

Proline Front or Rear Moab 2.2 Tire 1120-00

They are $16.95 (is that each?) on EBay - They say they are taller for extra clearance - But will they fit my new Plasma Edge (DF-02) - This is probably a stupid question - but I am a newbie. I think if they will work I will get the proper motor with correct gearing. Thanks.

timie1

11-28-2008, 02:48 PM

Unfortunately those won't work on your plasma edge wheels. They are truck wheel tires. They will work if you get these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXM875&P=7

The tires would definitely add ground clearance and provide amazing grip.
Being a newbie, I don't think you really understand gearing - no offense.
My friend got some tires almost the same as that and put them on his gravel hound. I warned him, to no end, that gearing it low enough will be the issue. His solution?? To get a faster motor, ie lower turn with more speed/power, which is the opposite of what he should have done. With big tires like that, gearing the car low enough will be the problem. I THINK the VXL motor will be fine and those tires. It's certainly got the torque to push them. But, those tires in the DF02 and brushless is unchartered territory for me.

If I still lived by my friend, I would borrow his wheels and put them on my car and see how the VXL does, but I can't cos I'm in Calgary now, and my friend is in Ontario :(

Steve at Danfor

11-29-2008, 07:12 PM

Hey Timie - I have a bid on a vxl motor on EBay now - Is the shaft size the same - I am going to get some Robinson Racing pinion gears 16 18 T if they will fit. Thanks - Steve

timie1

12-01-2008, 06:11 AM

Hey Steve, sorry for my delayed response. Yes the shaft size is the same, so any normal 1/10th scale pinions will fit. Make sure you get the "metric 48p" size the Robinson Racing makes. Normal 48p is not correct.

Also, something to be aware of.......I bought some 32p pinions to go on the VXL motor for when I put it in my emaxx, and they were made by Robinson Racing. The really weird thing is, out of the 2 pinions I bought, of which both are the same shaft size, one of them is extremely tight on the shaft, the other wasn't. It fits, so it's not that I got the wrong thing, it's just so super tight, I could probably use it without even doing up the set screw; ok, well maybe not, but it is VERY tight. It's like Robinson Racing don't have the best quality control, and the tolerances on this particular pinion were wrong.

That is the first time I've ever not had a Robinson Racing pinion fit on a shaft like it's meant to though. Normally they are great quality :/

I think I've said it already, but I'll say it again, the shaft size on the VXL is the same diameter, but it's a lot longer. It DOES fit the DF02, but I had to get a file and file away a minuscule amount of plastic on the gear cover/motor mount hold down cover to stop the shaft rubbing. It's not a problem in the slightest, and it won't change any look of anything from the outside.

Good luck on that motor :D

NOW, I'm off to bed, it's 4am lol

Steve at Danfor

12-01-2008, 07:03 AM

Thanks for the info Man - I really appreciate it - I have ordered the correct pinions from Tower 17 & 18T !! - along with 3 mm washers - some super nice black rims and the Pro-Line MOAB 2.2" Rears (4) - I am going to bid on an MM ESC and I have bids in on a new VXL Motor. I have to get busy and list some big lots of stamps on EBay to cover this stuff. It was crazy bro - I bought 25 big boxes of used Canada stamps (soaked off the envleopes) for 1,200 $ last year (incredibly cheap for a car load of stamps!) and I have been selling them and making a pile of profit over what I invested. Very lucky deal found through "Want it now" on Ebay - Sorry to prattle on - I have been trying to figure out what to do with those washers to fix up the front end (there was a bunch of posts about this) I shall try to find that - Thanks Again Andrew - Steve

timie1

12-01-2008, 01:14 PM

I find that Canadian Tire has most things like that, all those washers and spacers and nylon things and o-rings and body clips and so on. It's all from section where you pick your own :)

I hope you have luck with the VXL motor and MM esc. Try to get new if you can, but any decent used should be ok, as long they haven't mistreated it.

I would also suggest picking up the 67t spur gear. Getting it from here http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-df02-hopup-parts-tamiya-spur-gear-53703-p-9484.html?cPath=595_744_712 is quite good, when they have it in stock ;) They have quite a good range of hop-ups and shipping is very reasonable, much cheaper than Tower Hobbies for the same things. Plus, duty isn't charged by customs into Canada, that is always a bonus :D

Steve at Danfor

12-01-2008, 03:11 PM

Yes - I have purchased a few items from those guys no problems - I got the Tobee gear washer and the aluminum shocks (Tamiya) kit today and the GPM alloy front/rear wheel joint (only 1 pair) - Just goes to show I really know what I'm doing! I should order another set of those along with the 67T Spur gear - Thanks Man - Steve

Steve at Danfor

12-01-2008, 03:52 PM

I also got a Tamiya Differential POSI LOCK SPOOL WD25X06 on EBay - so I will use the extra strong wheel joints on the rear with the spool - Right? Got another good source for that spur part on EBay if the shipping price is right - Tower has them in stock and I made a big order yesterday and just phoned them to squeeze in the 67T spur gear but they said they shipped already! :(

Steve at Danfor

12-01-2008, 04:35 PM

Hi Again - Do I have to get the 67T Pinion even though I have on order 2 smaller ones (than stock) a 17T and an 18T Robinson Metrics - Or do you mean to use one of those with the 67T spur. Considering the extra large Moab tires that are coming in:)

timie1

12-02-2008, 02:11 AM

Hi Steve - woahhh, you really buy lots all at once :D Those stamps must be selling like hotcakes ;)

IMO, the Df02 doesn't need much in the way things to beef up the strength. To make it run better, that is a different scenario. I have only ever used plastic bits, when aluminum bits exist to use instead. The problem with getting aluminum is, when you upgrade X part, instead of X breaking, Y breaks. So you have to upgrade Y, but then something has to break in a crash, so Z breaks. So you end up replacing Z with an aluminum part, and so begins the transition to a totally aluminum chassis. Now, this LOOKS cool, but aluminum is heavier than the stock plastic, and I don't think it's better. So, tread carefully down that road.

I am VERY interested in those GPM universal joints you bought. I have hummed and huhhed so much with those. I've had them in the shopping cart, then taken them out. Then put them back in and so on :D So, make sure you report back on them. Make sure you put them on the front. That's the most important axle on the DF02. You'll hear the steering binding when you turn full lock with the dogbones.
The rear is not important, because they don't bind, there is no way for them to bind, unless you have the suspension set up to extremes to get ride height and suspension arm is at such a huge angle.

Now, with your questions..........did I say 67t pinion?? Lol, oops. If I did, I meant 67t SPUR. I don't know if you SHOULD get the smaller spur, because I've never tried those big tires you're gonna have. But with stock buggy wheels, yes, that spur really is a neccessity if you want speed. RC Mart don't have it in stock at the moment, so I wouldn't worry about it right now. See how your car goes with the things you're buying, especially the VXL and tires. If it's got loads and loads of torque, but not the best top speed, then get the 67 spur. If however, it seems to struggle with acceleration, and the motor gets very hot, then buying the 67 spur would be a total waste of money. Buying the smaller SPUR will make the gearing taller, but buying a smaller PINION will make the gearing lower.

I must say, for a newb, you know what you're doing :D Congratulations!!!!

If you go to a hobby shop in Ottawa, or Toronto, or wherever, they'll probably try to sell you an aluminum drive shaft. They'll say the plastic one twists. My opinion is whatever!!! Steel twists. Aluminum twists. METAL twists, but it never twists back. Plastic (the good Tamiya ones) may twist, but it goes back to it's normal shape instantly. I'm running the plastic shaft and there is no sign of wear after 5 years or so that I've had the Gravel Hound. So don't be sucked into that LHS trap. The Tamiya aluminum shaft is not cheap, so don't bother with it. Just my opinion - someone else may say something else.

- Andrew

About your posi lock diff..........I don't know!! I've never seen one, used one, or heard of one for the DF02. My entire drivetrain is stock and it's holding up fine.

timie1

12-02-2008, 02:23 AM

Just had another thought.....you're batteries are going to matter with brushless. Please, don't go spending more money on things before you know if you're batteries will cope. With brushed motors, any weaknesses in batteries aren't apparent. But, with brushless, that all changes.

Normal cheap cells will work, but they won't be enjoyable. They'll give little run time, they'll get hot, and you won't be getting the speed your system is capable of.

At the very least, I would use GP3300 cells. These are an old generation now, but they still perform well enough. You're obviously not afraid of ebay, so the next lot of money I would spend, if I were you, is on this http://cgi.ebay.com/Enrich-power-EP4600-EP-4600mAh-Ni-MH-1-2V-Battery-5pcs_W0QQitemZ370120712544QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio _Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item370120712544&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318

That is only for 5 cells, so look around for 6 cells, or buy 2 lots of them, and make your own combination. 8 cells on the VXL and MM is so cool :D Adding one cell makes a big difference. So, it's up to you. I bought some EP4600 cells off feebay, not from that seller, but one similar. They came from Hong Kong. If you do buy them, count on some of them arriving to you dead. So order a few more as a spare. I bought 21, or 22 cells in total, and I had 1 or 2 DOA. It's just part of life when you buy unmatched virginal cells. It's still a LOT cheaper than buying 6 matched, which can be about $70 for those cells.

IB cells are also a good performer, but they seem to be finnicky, and they vent, or die, or worse blow up, at random. So, you could search for them, they are more common, but.......I dunno, I wouldn't :)

Steve at Danfor

12-02-2008, 05:00 AM

HI Guy - I'm up early as usual - I won the (New, unused) VXL Motor last night on the Bay for $62.50 US delivery included. I think thats a very fair number. Thanks for all the info - I am only going use the aluminum front shock tower and the steering kit to start - I do not want to go down the road you described with an all alloy chassis. I will probably get MaxAmp Batteries as I have 2 for my boat and I like the quality but not the price but heck I am spending the profit from my big stamp deal and they are guaranteed for 300 charges. Maybe one of these?

Lipo 5000HV 3S 11.1V Battery Pack = 179$
30C Lipo 6500 2S2P 7.4V Battery Pack = 139$

I am enclosing a pic of the GPM parts I received just so you know exactly what they are

timie1

12-02-2008, 01:36 PM

Hi Guy :D Yeah that's not a bad price. Buying it in Canada would probably be about $100 for that VXL.

Ahh, those bits. I thought you meant these http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-df02-hopup-parts-swing-shaft-64mm-tdf2264c-p-16557.html?cPath=595_744_712
But those bits are just as good.

Another thing you may find useful in a short amount of time is this. The plastic ones are ok, but they get brittle and crack, and under heavy wheels and brushless power, they'll crack quickly. These aluminum ones you crank the wheel nut on there good and tight.
http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-f201-hopup-parts-yeah-racing-wa016sv-alloy-wheel-washer-thick-65mm-p-27432.html?cPath=595_744_712

Steve at Danfor

12-02-2008, 04:19 PM

Yes I was looking at those - Kind of like you were with the Spool - in and out of my cart multi-times - So pricey - Depends on how my auctions go Thursday AM - Anyways - So I get 1 set of each of those items. The diffs go on the front and I will use the ones I already have on the rear. The wheel nuts I want - I was going to get some thinner ones - I like those thick babies! Do I need a heat sink for the VXL motor? - This time I would like to try to get everything I need in the next shipment from Hong Kong!:)

timie1

12-03-2008, 12:42 AM

From my experience, the VXL motor runs cool, or at least it does in any CAR I have. It runs hot in the emaxx, but to be honest, that is really over stressing it.

So, heatsink in the DF02?.....ummmm aahhhhh, I suppose it wouldn't hurt. If you can get one in there! A normal motor is fine, because the wires come out at such an angle that you can easily route them away from the top of the motor and that small space between it and the body. The wires on the VXL exit the can parallel to the motor. You have to bend them up and force them in the opposite direction to hook them to the ESC. I had to cut about 2-3 inches of length off the wires, they are just too long for the gravel hound and end up bunching up too much. Space is limited with many setups at the best of times, and the extra length of the VXL motor and long wires and slightly bigger footprint of the MM esc, it all gets tight quickly. You'll see!!! Looking at mine now, I think a heatsink would fit, but it will be tight. You may elect to unsolder the wires from the solder tabs of the motor, and make them come out of the can in the direction of the ESC as opposed to doubling up.

From the photo, you'll see better what I mean. With the ESC in there, where there are remnants of the double sided tape behind my RX, the wires only have one place to go, on top of the motor under the body. Even with the wires shortened, they still bunch up. I should really shorten them more, but I haven't because I swap motors between my cars and I need that length. I think a small heatsink, both short and not deep, would be ok, like if it covered only 1/3 of the length of the can and put it by the motor mount. But this is all trivial, because in this car, the motor hardly gets warm at all. Considering the motor is safe up to 200F, this motor hasn't gotten any warmer then about 30°C, which is a long way off 200F.

If you get a GPM or something from RC mart, get it while you buy others, but I wouldn't put a special order in. It probably won't even push up shipping if you're buying other things, and the chinese ones are cheap as, not like the Tamiya heatsinks (although they are a much better quality one - I have both)

timie1

12-03-2008, 12:53 AM

I've just tried putting this http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Racing-Motor-HeatSink-W-Electric-Cooling-Fan-540-LB_W0QQitemZ160299652737QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio_C ontrol_Parts_Accessories?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
on the motor, and then I also tried this
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tamiya-53664-TT01-Aluminium-Motor-Heat-Sink_W0QQitemZ120342885708QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio _Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item120342885708&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

I wouldn't recommend either of them with this setup. They are both good heatsinks, but they are too big for this setup (the genuine Tamiya one is a much better quality one). Because of the small screws holding the endbells in, the heatsink has to fit behind the screws, and in front of the wires, but all while keeping the wires squished down as much as possible so the body still fits. It just doesn't happen:(

In a car with more room and a higher body, yeah they both fit and work well. So, if you do buy a heatsink, shop around for a shorter one, something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Alloy-Heat-Sink-Suit-Team-Associated-B4-T4_W0QQitemZ310046314294QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Toys _Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles?_trksid=p3286.m 20.l1116

Steve at Danfor

12-03-2008, 05:18 AM

I sort of thought with all that oversize stuff inside there would be a shortage of space so I went ahead and got this from Tower when I scored the Moab Tires. I just liked the look of it and buddy on our forum said it fits fine. I shall wait and see if this will this body give me some extra space for a heat sink.

timie1

12-04-2008, 03:09 AM

That body looks cool :D I have wanted to, for a long time, convert my gravel hound to a 1/10 truggy by getting the wheels you're getting, and also a body similar to that.

My problem is I would rather spend my RC budget on my other cars LOL
The Emaxx is great fun, so that quenches my thirst for a truggy-esque driver. At least I know that it works. I hate, with a capital H, spending money on things and find it's not what I was hoping. So as a result, I tend to take few risks, and would rather spend on things I know are what I want, heheh.

timie1

12-04-2008, 03:14 AM

Oh, and by the way, with that high body, there should be plenty of room for a heatsink with the wires routed up and over the motor.
I've had the heatsink I described in my other posts, on the VXL motor fitting nicely when I had the motor in my emaxx with loads of body room. So a heatsink will fit as long as the body is high enough.

Steve at Danfor

12-04-2008, 04:53 AM

Great - I shall place an order with Dinball today as my auctions on EBay are doing well. I will keep you posted and no doubt will have more questions about all the set-up and installation when I get onto actually building this Buggy - Take care Bro - Steve

Steve at Danfor

12-14-2008, 12:15 PM

Hi Andrew or Anyone Else - I received the Velineon motor. Brand New - It's a jewel! I have the metal motor mount and the clip-on heat sink is on its way from Dinball. Couple of things: I have an aluminum 70T spur and a Delrin 67T Spur as well as Robinson Pinions 17 and 18T. What's the best combo to start off - Don't forget I will be using the truck Rims & Moab Tires. The Titanium GPM Swing Shafts (only 1 set as they were $30!) are coming in as well - Should I put them on the front and have the Spool in the rear? Oddly enough I also scrored the Cup Joint for Universal Shaft and Assembly Universal Shaft For DF-02 - http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-tt01-hopup-parts-tamiya-joint-universal-shaft-tt01df02-53790-p-16257.html?cPath=595_744_708 - I'm not sure why I got them - Will they be of any use?

timie1

12-15-2008, 04:09 AM

Hi Steve

That's great the motor arrived. Yeah, the motor is a jewel. It's fun getting new motors - the tension awaiting the surprise of all the power.

I would only ever use plastic (delrin) spurs. Aluminum ones are supposed to be quite noisy, and they don't wear. Normally this sounds like a good thing, but with the spur, you want it to wear. If there were a slipper clutch on the DF02 then it's not so bad, but as there is none, then having a weak point in the drivetrain is essential. With an aluminum spur and pinion, something will have to give, if the forces should ever occur. The only thing that can give will end up being something a lot more expensive to fix than a spur gear. The motor could get killed, or the diff. Think of a spur gear as a fuse in an electrical circuit.

Normally you should start geared as low as possible and work up from there. So, use the stock 70 spur and the smallest pinion you have. If it goes well and nothing gets too hot, then go up. I would say that with normal tires, the 67 spur will be what you want, but as I said before, I don't really know what gearing would be best with those tires. Just start low and go up. I know it's a pain changing the spur gear, but spending the 30 minutes changing the spur is better than blowing up the motor on the first run.

I don't think you'll be able to blow the motor up, but it was just an exaggeration :D

I have no idea about that spool. Hopefully someone else will chime in on that.

LOL, I don't know why you got them either :D Ummm, you'll probably need them on the rear, as the rear will wear out quicker than the front. But when you get a true universal joint - not just the cup for it, put the joint on the front as that binds and the back doesn't.

Oh, I just re-read.....the Titanium GPM Swing Shafts: are they the universal joints? If they are, definitely put them on the front.

Has your ESC arrived yet?

Steve at Danfor

12-15-2008, 06:40 AM

Hi Andrew: I won it on the Bay last night $96 & 10 shipping and its got the software, computer hookup wire, and a Castle BEC - All new in box from a guy in Kamloops. The ***. Swing shafts are Universals - OK - On the front they go - I sure do see what you mean by the spur gear - great comparison to a 'fuse' - I am on it - Dinball package should be here soon. I think I will set up the stock diffs and keep the spool to try after I see what it's like stock - Don't forget - I have never operated an RC Car of any kind - So I want my first experience to be good and thew spool might be too much. I will keep you posted and thanks for all the help - Steve

timie1

12-15-2008, 07:18 PM

You're right, Steve. The spool may be a bit much considering you've never operated any RC car. It's really a racing tweak that is best left to those that know why they are using them. From my understanding, they are best in the front as they effectively make a 4wd car only 2wd, from the back, and allow greater braking in the front. Or maybe that's a one way spool. I dunno. hahah. Anyway, they are really used for racing in a chassis far more suited to racing than the DF02.

The stock diffs and drivetrain will be sufficient for a while until you get the hang of it. Then, when you know how the car goes with the stock setup, or at least common upgrades for the DF02, then and only then, would I recommend stuffing around with things. When making a change to anything, you should only change one thing at a time, and write down what you changed in a notebook. That way you are able to document how each change affected the car. If more than one thing is changed at a time, how are you to know WHAT changed how it handled? If it made it worse, then you can go back to the previous setup.

What I'm trying to say is, drive the car without the spool. Understand how it goes. Learn to drive it with a setup that is proven to be alright. Then, when you can control it and know it inside and out, then make dramatic changes.

Keep me posted with that Mamba Max. It's good you got the Max rather than the sidewinder. It can take more than the sidewinder, and is apparently waterproof if you cover the USB plug up. Although I am a little reluctant to try it myself ;)

At the moment, I've lost any enthusiasm for RC :( It's too cold to go outside in Calgary. It's hovering around -30, so even if I waterproofed the setup, I still can't make it comfortable to be outside for more than a few minutes with exposed hands to control the cars. So now I'm solely an armchair RCer.

Steve at Danfor

12-15-2008, 07:38 PM

Good Advice Andrew - I shall follow it. Yep - The Mamba Max was what I was looking for after reading about the other Castle Creations. (Ha) More versitile. I am negotiating with Dinball to return the stuff I don't need in exchange for something better. And yes - This Canadian weather is lousy in the winter for RC'ing. Maybe some paddle tires from Dinball and I can get out in the snow! Are there better tires or is it even possible to do like you said by waterproofing the ESC. Steve

timie1

12-16-2008, 12:17 AM

There are "better" tires than others, but I reckon there is not one tire that is good in deep snow. On my Emaxx, these are the best in snow http://www.traxxas.com/products/electric/emaxx/accessories/4902maxx_tire.jpg I'm sure Proline make chevron tread pattern tires in standard 2.2" size. They work considerably better if you turn them around, and mount them so the "V" is backwards. They grip snow a lot better. The problem is, the vehicle still sinks in deep fluffy snow. Others have made chains for their tires. They look cool and probably work just like real 1:1 car chains, but it still doesn't keep the car afloat.

Some people have made skis to mount on the front. I question whether they work. You'd need some really wide skis, and to keep the speed up.

About waterproofing the ESC, with the MM, apparently all that's need is putting some insulating tape over the USB plug. The heatsink and everything else is coated in some sort of membrane that keeps water out. I saw an ad on late night tv that was some spray on waterproof film. It can go on anything, and it's available from automotive stores. Other people have recommended similar stuff. I have never tried it though.

The good thing is you go with that film, you could spray it on everything else, the receiver and the servo.

To be honest, I wouldn't run an expensive brushless system in the snow if it wasn't waterproof. If it fries, you have no warranty.
But if you can waterproof the ESC, waterproofing the rest is easy. You can put a plastic bag, or balloon, over the receiver, and with the servo, the Traxxas blue waterproof servos from an Emaxx/Slash and so on,would be absolutely ideal - they'd also give you the benefit of more torque and speed for the servo. They are about $15-20 on the Bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Traxxas-Servo-High-Torque-Waterproof-REVO-JATO-TMAXX_W0QQitemZ190270776308QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadi o_Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item190270776308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Good luck with negotiating with Dinball.
-Andrew

Steve at Danfor

12-16-2008, 05:52 AM

Hi - I think I shall cool my jets this winter and wait for the dryer weather, although I guess I should see how things go before the summer - I still have to get a Radio systemand Battery - I have an working cheapo Fatuba servo - I gotta get all that together - Do I need a fancy servo - I was not thinking of getting a new one but may get one with a new Radio system. The Mamba should be here soon - Shipped Express from Kamloops yesterday AM - :D Ye Ha - Dinball has supplied nice Return Form to be filled out and returned with goods for store credit - About $40 - Not Bad at all. And stamps for me are free so the return postage is no sweat - Send me your mailing address and I will send you some nice stamps you can use on your mail and packages - I really appreciate the help you are giving me and it's No Problem Andrew! :wave:

Steve at Danfor

12-16-2008, 05:54 AM

Oh - I missed that last paragraph on Traxxas Servo - I shall check that out - Thanks

Steve at Danfor

12-16-2008, 08:30 AM

Now I remember why I got them (after a search of this forum) -

"CVD's - I prefer the tamiya, # 53790, they require you to use a different diff cup joint #53791, they are steel, priced in the middle of the four brands available, tobee is the cheapest, then tamiya, then gpm titanium and then sqaure. You will want to do these eventually anyway as even with the stock can you can bend and distort the stock dogbones."

Is a quote from senior member JTD in an earlier post - So I have the GPM Titanium CVD's and the Tamiya ones - I will put them (Tamiya) on the front if that seems OK to you as this fellow says to use the spool in the rear for super traction (which is what I will do since I spent $20. on it) in conjunction with the Titanium CVD's (extra strong).

timie1

12-16-2008, 02:35 PM

Oh cool, thanks a lot Steve. I'll send you a PM with the info.

I'm sure there will be plenty of days when you can run the car and keep it dry in winter for testing purposes. Last winter when I was in Ontario, the roads were dry enough, so that was fine, but the sand and salt on the roads made the car extremely skittish. It's driveable, just there isn't much grip.

A standard servo should be sufficient, but with them big wheels, a torquier servo would be better. Once you're driving a standard cheapo servo will be fine, just don't expect it to push the wheels when sitting still, like in the house and on carpet.

If you're after a cheapo radio, once again, the bay has tons of them that people rip out of (mainly) brand new Traxxas vehicles. So you can get a Traxxas TQ3 for about $16 + shipping of about $12, which ain't bad for a brand new set with the Tx and Rx and crystals.
The Traxxas radios work quite well, for a cheapo.

About your battery and charger......lipo or A123 cells would be the ideal way to go if you're just starting out and if you're an educated user - which you seem to be :D Lipo in particular needs care and can't be abused, but they perform WAY better than nimh, for roughly the same cost. Hong Kong is the best place to get a charger from. Here's a thread that I posted some links in which will be of major use to you http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?t=252673 My links are about half way down the page.

Nimh would do the job, but the thing is, you'll need GOOD nimh cells if you want performance. GOOD nimh cells aren't cheap. For 6 cells of decent quality, you'll be looking at about $60 give or take. Also add another $60 or so for a charger. For the same sort of money, you can get an average 2S lipo pack which would easily outperform and give longer runtime (even though the mah numbers may be less), and be a lot lighter. And if you shop for a charger from Hong Kong, the same money can be spent on a charger that does literally everything.
(And from my experience, shipping from hong kong is a lot faster than from The States, and it's cheaper too - go figure)

Thanks again for the stamps - I could really use them at the moment.
Check you inbox!!!

Sirial

12-17-2008, 11:10 PM

Hi all.
I'm new to this forum and relatively new to rc cars/buggies. I've got a gravel hound and am looking at upgrading its motor. I'm mainly looking at Tamiya motors, as they are the cheapest at my lhs ($30-50 aud, next cheapest is $140). Current options are :Tamiya BZ 23T, Tamiya TZ 23T, Tamiya RZ 23T and Tamiya Dirt Tuned 27T. I mainly drive on road, dirt and grass. Also, would these motors require a change of spur/pinion gear?

timie1

12-18-2008, 02:34 AM

Boy oh boy, $140 is a rip off. It reminds me of the days when I was looking for a motor when I lived in New Zealand.
I too decided I would only spend the price of the Tamiya motors. I ended up buying a Super Stock TZ, which is a 23T motor. Great little motor. Those motors can really take a beating. Actually I sold it to a friend last year, and I'm pretty sure it's still going super strong. I cut the comm (well I paid a shop to do it) once and put new brushes in once. It's now on it's 3rd set of brushes, and it's 6 years old, or so. They take heat and overgearing really well :D

Anyway, why waste your money on something so expensive from your LHS in Australia? Why not buy one from USA on ebay? They are literally 1/3rd of the price, even with the conversion, and shipping isn't that much, for the honest and fair sellers on ebay.

What ESC are you using? The stock TEU101? If so, then with the 23T motors you've listed, they should all be fine, but you'll probably want the RZ because it revs the highest.
Have a look at these 3 links for more info:
RZ http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGYS0
TZ http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGYR9&P=7
BZ http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNUG7&P=7

RPM isn't everything, and quite often it's best to have more torque at the expense of RPM's. However, with that rule, it usually requires taller gearing to turn the torque into wheel RPM = speed.
As gearing options in the DF02 is limited to a final drive ratio of 7.9:1 (using the 67 spur and 22 pinion), you won't see amazing speed. You'd need higher gearing.

So, the alternative is to get the RZ motor with an extra 1000rpm, but with less, but similar, torque figures. That should give you a bit better top speed while still able to gear the car correctly. You're not going to see amazing speed out of it though. What sort of batteries are you running? They make a big difference when you start gearing to high hell, as the higher gearing, the greater current demands. So good batteries are needed to supply those demands.

ANY of those motors will provide an amazing boost over the stock silver can Johnson in the kit. You won't need to change gearing, but it is advisable if you want to see some speed from your investment.
You shouldn't be disappointed with those motors, as they last forever and do provide an improvement. However, I seriously would consider importing one from USA. I would recommend a 19T motor for the DF02. I had that, and THAT is what you want, trust me :D I had a Trinity, this to be exact http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSWS7&P=7 but there is a cheaper version http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSWS6&P=7
That would make Kangaroo and Wallaby mince meat out of the Tamiya 23T motors if paired with decent batteries.
Another good one, if not better than the Trinity one is this http://www.xtownrc.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/21/products_id/8362
However, I've moved on to brushless now.

Don't forget, USD$40 is AUD$57, so the prices are MUCH cheaper if you import it.

Good luck, and if you have any more questions, just ask!! I've been in the hobby for.......ages. Since the late 80's.

Sirial

12-18-2008, 04:57 AM

Haha, $140 isn't even the most expensive. Most expensive brushed motor is $160, whilst brushless system is $299.
At the moment i'm using the TEU101 esc (paired to a futaba receiver and radio) and my batteries are Intellect ni-mh 3000mah. I don't really want to buy online as I've never really been keen on doing that. Those motors however, are only the ones from the website itself (which hasn't been updated in like one year). Also does that mean the higher the gearing the faster and the lower the tourquier? I sort of get motor turns but all this gearing is beyond me...

Steve at Danfor

12-18-2008, 05:38 AM

Hi - I am a newbie at RC but love this forum as I too am building a DF-02. Do not fret about buying stuff on-line. Security is solid now - The internet opportunities are fantastic - Don't be foolish and avoid them :teacher: - What exactly are your concerns? - Steve in Ottawa - Old EBay'er since 1999 with never a problem and hundreds of parcels in and out and payments made and received by all methods of payment imaginable! :D

timie1

12-18-2008, 03:28 PM

Yeah Steve is right. Buying online is so much safer than you may think.
I haven't bought online from 1999, but in the last 3 years or so, I have had nothing go wrong through ebay. The ONLY thing that went "wrong" was through www.b-p-p.com, but that is another story that ended in a happy enough ending.

If a brushless system is $299, then that ain't too bad compared to JUST the brushed motor being $160. What brushless system is it for that price?

Gearing sounds a bit confusing, but it's not really.
A higher turn motor, like the 23T and 27T can be geared higher because they have more torque than a low turn motor. As they are geared higher, they will make the car move faster top speed - assuming your batteries are up to the task - but also be aware the higher the gearing the slower the accelerating. Sometimes the trade off in acceleration isn't much at all for greater top speed.
Be careful though, it is very easy to overgear a motor, and when that happens, particularly with a brushed motor, the car will be slow everywhere. It'll accelerate poorly, and it'll never get to the top speed, and the motor will be very hot. You'll no doubt have really hot batteries, and the ESC will also be very hot.

A low turn motor spins very fast, but comparatively speaking they don't have a lot of torque. This is why it is necessary to gear them a lot lower (higher numerical FDR (final drive ratio)). The low gearing turns some of the revs into torque. Despite the fact they are geared a lot lower and therefore logic says they'll be slower top speed, they are a lot faster.

Remember, the rule is, the taller/higher gearing has a lower numerical number, and the lower the gearing, the higher the numerical number.

For example, using the 67t spur and 22t pinion (the highest gearing available in the DF02), you would use this calculation:

67/22 = 3.045
3.045 x 2.6 = FDR 7.917 (2.6 is the ratio of the gearbox and must be factored in)
That means that for every 7.91 motor RPM, the wheels are turning 1 time.
Based on the diameter of the wheel, you could use Pi to work out the circumference and get a theoretical top speed. FUN!!!!

So, the higher that 7.91 figure is, it means your gearing is lower. If the FDR was 11.0:1, the motor is turning 11 times to every 1 RPM at the wheels.

With brushed motors there are turns of the motor, and there are also winds. The turns is how many times the wire is wrapped around the arms of the armature. However, winds can determine how and where it's power is delivered. A single wind motor is 1 strand of wire wrapped however many turns around the armature. A double wind motor is 2 smaller strands twisted together to create essentially 1 wire, then wrapped around. A triple wind is 3 strands and so on.

Single wind gives the most torque at the expense of a few revs. Also single wind has the torque low down in it's powerband. The higher the winds, the few more RPM the motor has and the higher in it's powerband the power is delivered.

This is probably getting a bit confusing, so I would recommend just ignore most of this. The reality is, you won't feel much difference in those three 23 turn motors that Tamiya makes. I would think the TZ is a single wind, and the RZ is a triple wind. But I don't know that for certain.
You'll see motors sold as 23x1 or 23x2 or 23x3 and so on. That means they are 23 turn single wind, and so on.

The gearing options in the DF02 should be fine for any matter of winds, and anything down to a 19 turn motor for a newbie. Below a 19 turn can work, but they are a lot pickier with gearing.

If I were you and you really are limited to those motors, just get whatever one you think, they will all be about the same - and use the 67 spur and 22 pinion.

Steve........and you too Sirial, check out the calculator here http://www.scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/_top_speed.html

For the first box, enter 2.6
For the second and third enter 1
The the rest are pretty much self explanatory

The KV of a brushed motor....hmmmm - this is where you Sirial may have problems with that calculator :) Try putting in the Kv box 3680
That's roughly right, considering the motors spin at 26500 with 7.2V.
Leave all boxes with "0" alone.

Here is another calculator for you. http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/gearwizard.cfm
People say that rollout should be as close to 1 as possible. Who am I to argue with them? :D I've had the rollout much higher than 1 with no problems - although my 19t motor is now dead, so perhaps there were problems ;) The higher the rollout, the faster the top speed, theoretical.

Wow, that was a long post. I should cut my posts to half the size and split them in two, that way my post count will go up :)

Steve at Danfor

12-18-2008, 06:43 PM

Great calculators - Makes me wonder if I should snag a 16T Pinion Gear to go with the 70T stock Spur - I have a 17T but the rollout is 1.54 - It's high because the Moab tire diameter is 5.25 inches! I dig this scientific end of it all Man! Oh - and I like those long post Timie - Mucho Data! :)

timie1

12-18-2008, 07:31 PM

LOL thanks Steve. It seems like there are competitions who can post the most out of the senior members. I'm lagging behind because my posts are so damn long :)

Bear in mind, those calculators are designed for old school brushed. The same principles apply for brushless, but only to a point. they have gobs more torque than brushed, so, use it only as a guideline for your VXL.

- Andrew

Sirial

12-19-2008, 03:27 PM

I don't have a credit card yet, and I don't really want to ask anyone else to buy stuff for me.

The brushless system is a venom v540. Although, I'm going to have a look at my lhs today, see what else they have. I also saw (on the web) a Team Associated Reedy flash motors ranging from 13x2, 15x2 and 17x2 for around $60-$80.

I think I'll just go and browse the motors today, remember the price and maybe buy the gear set. I need to get a front shock tower as well, because half of it's bent right back into the body, after I drove my gh into a massive pothole, causing it to flip and run (or crash) into a metal table leg...:(

Plus, the front tires of the gh have been worn right down. Do you guys think I should get the original spiked tire, or some grooved slicks (i do drive a lot on tarmac)?

All this ratio stuff takes AGES to work out for me though, probably cos i'm in holiday mode...:p

Lol, I also like long posts. It feels like there's more info, and I've read more stuff :D

timie1

12-19-2008, 06:00 PM

Hey Sirial........I don't have a credit card either, but I buy most things RC related online. Paypal is where it's at!!! All you need is a bank account and link paypal to your normal account. If you have eftpos (Australian term for "debit" in Canada) then you can use paypal. It's safer, IMO, than using a credit card because if someone did hack in and decide to buy something in your name, they can only spend what you have in your paypal - which is whatever you decide to put in. Unlike a credit card which the sky is the limit, or up till your credit limit.

That aside, yeah those reedy motors would be faster than the Tamiya super stock motors. Just don't go buying and getting all excited prematurely and get a low turn one thinking it'll be a rocket ship. You can't gear it low enough in the GH, and it very well could be slower than a 23T tamiya motor that is geared correctly.

If you decided to get a lower turn one, like a 19T motor, you're going to need a new ESC, as that TEU101 will not work very well on it. I've been there, tried that. It goes, JUST. But only for a few minutes and it shuts down due to thermalling. It glitches, and the range is not far. You will blow the ESC up. The TEU101 is reliable down to about a 23 turn, and below that, yes and no in terms of running - but there will be no reliability.

So, based on that, if you're going to need a new ESC and motor, you may as well just bugger it, and buy a brushless!! It will be far more reliable - a million times more reliable in fact, as well as being gobs faster and GOBS more torque. You won't need to rebuild the motor by cutting the comm and brushes in 1 month. Although, the Tamiya 23T motors do last a long time, they will still need brushed maintenance. Just yesterday I read that people running the Mamba Max motors are now in their 3rd year and it runs as good now as it did when it was new, about 75km/h or 45mph. All they did was clean the bearings every few months - which is quick, free, and easy.

For tires, I would only recommend these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU13&P=ML for the back and these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU14&P=7 for the front if you plan to continue running the stock wheels. They have much more grip for concrete running, they provide more ride height, and they last a lot longer than the spiked tires - when running on concrete or tarmac.

I've tried the other road wheels, namely these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRLN9&P=7 and the fronts they also make - they are cheap Taiwanese rubbish. They look cool, but that's about it. The grip is nowhere near as good as the American made Proline rubber, and they wear out quicker than a cheap hooker.

Grooved slicks are fine, if you get a decent brand, like the Proline ones. It's up to you, but personally I don't bother that much with front wheels. For me, the rear wears out so much quicker, and that's where most of the drive comes from. And that is also the end of the chassis that slaps on the ground all the time, so I like more ride height, so I would get the buggy tires that give the most ride height and still provide amazing grip.
By the way, those Proline tires I recommend are technically a 2.2" size, and the stock wheels are not. I think they are considered a 2.16" or something. Well, 2.2" tires fit well - just make sure you put some CA glue or GOOD super glue on them, and wash the inside of the tire with soapy water first - also get some 200 grit sandpaper and lightly sand the area of the wheel where the rubber sits and is to be glued. I don't think the Tamiya tires are glued on, or if they are, they don't need to be because they are a very tight fit. But most other tires will need to be glued on!!

Yeah long posts are good, for the reason you mention. But sometimes, without naming any names (not in this thread) they get very......geeky!! Bamboozle the readers with numbers and data logs and theory and science.......those get boring :D

timie1

12-19-2008, 06:20 PM

Oh yeah, your front shock tower - that is the ONLY thing I've ever broken on my Gravel Hound. The chassis broke quite badly only a few months ago, but I crazily let my dad drive it. Must be age creeping up on him. He drove it straight into a metal pole in the tennis court. I took him there thinking tennis court......big open area. No trees. Only perfectly smooth green painted concrete and a few nets strung up...perfect newbie practicing ground. Of course I neglected to realise that the 20 foot high wire fence around the place is held in place with solid power pole like steel columns:eek:

He managed to find the poles in 5 minutes!!!! Oh well, it was only a $10 fix. But my point is, I'VE only ever bent the front shock tower back - nothing else has been damaged by ME on that car.
My friend also has a Gravel Hound, and he bent the shock tower. He replaced it with an aluminium one. DON'T DO IT!!!
They scratch too easily, and looked really knocked up from one flip. The shocks mount to them differently. Instead of the shocks mounting with a ball end screwed directly into the tower, they mount to a "chineses" ball end that screws into a "chinese" cheap aluminium thing, which has a long threaded bolt locking it in place in the tower - only it's not a bolt, it's a pathetic cheap piece of metallic crap that happens to be threaded.

It's much more complicated than need be, and the aluminium the Chinese use is weak, so their shock towers break extremely easily. What would only be an invisible scratch on the Tamiya plastic shock tower results in a total breakage of the Chinese aluminium ones and scratched very badly.

Aluminium other parts, like their dogbones seems to be a much better quality. Steve at danfor bought the titanium ones - I hope he can inform us how good the chinese Titanium is - in theory it should be lots stronger than aluminium.

Sirial

12-21-2008, 02:29 AM

Lol, that probably was poor planning on your part ;) . I play tennis a lot, don't forget the lights (most tennis courts have them). BTW, I don't have a bank account either.

About the shock tower, I couldn't find any replacements the were aluminium anyway, so I'm going to see if I can just buy the original plastic part (which should be available right?).

Also, I was told that there was this formula with spur and pinion gearing:
Spur (divided by) Pinion (times) Transmission Ratio = X
And that the lower X is, the higher the top speed would be?

And (sorry for all the questions) what is 'pitch'?:confused:

With the tires, I'm thinking about just getting pre-mounted touring car slicks, as I don't really go into places where a lot of grip is needed.

Sirial

12-21-2008, 02:35 AM

If I use a 22t pinion, in which motor position would I mount the motor in? Because the highest in the tami manual is 19t.

timie1

12-21-2008, 03:27 PM

Yeah that formula is correct - but only in theory. When you start changing gearing, you'll see what I mean. Sometimes, on some motors, a higher number, ie lower gearing, will be quicker.

With a 23T motor though, yes you are probably right, the lower the number will mean higher top speed.

There used to be a website that had a whole lot of great useful info about the DF02 chassis, but seems to be gone now. So it's lucky I printed the most useful page out for future reference.

You may want to refer to your manual and do some cross referencing with the diagram that is in there, as this can get confusing, and a picture paints a thousand words.

70t spur gear
16t pinion 45° from top (6:30 position) 11.38 final drive ratio
17t pinion 90° from top (9:00 position) 10.37 FDR
18t pinion 135° from top (10:30 position) 10.11 FDR
19t pinion 0/180° from top (12:00 position) 9.58 FDR

67t Spur gear
19t pinion 45° from top (6:30 position) 9.17 FDR
20t pinion 90° from top (9:00 position) 8.71 FDR
21t pinion 135° from top (10:30 position) 8.30 FDR
22t pinion 0/180° from top (12:00 position) 7.92 FDR

timie1

12-21-2008, 03:37 PM

Pitch is basically the size of the teeth on the gear. The Tamiya is "metric" 48 pitch. I believe Tamiya and Kyosho use the same pitch - being they are designed (or originally designed - in Kyosho's case) in Japan, which use the metric way of things.

Most companies use normal 48p "pitch" gearing. Most companies are an American designed car.

"Metric 48p" and standard "imperial 48p" gears look nearly identical, but they are different, so you have to be careful when getting the tamiya 48p ones. They are similar but they won't work together.

There are other pitches available, mainly 32 pitch, and also 64 pitch. The smaller the number, the bigger the teeth. 32p gears are ususally used on larger offroad vehicles that put more stress on the gearing. 64p gears are really fine and small teeth, mainly used in racing touring cars. They run very quietly and there are lots of combinations of gearing available, due to the fact that there are many more teeth on the gears.

Standard 48p, not the Tamiya ones, are quieter than Tamiyas, but in all respects, they are bascially the same. Just don't go interchanging Tamiya and normal 48p ones.

Yeah the plastic shock tower should be easily available. You'll have to buy the whole tree of parts, which comes with a gear cover case for the front, and a few other bits.

timie1

12-22-2008, 02:57 PM

Steve......you have PM

Sirial

12-25-2008, 12:06 AM

Thanks for info :)
But does that mean that I'll have to get a new motor mount if I use a 22t pinion?

Oh, Merry Christmas everyone and have a Happy New Year :D

timie1

12-25-2008, 04:49 AM

No, it doesn't mean you'll need a new motor mount.

Use the same mounting position for the 22 pinion as you'd use for the 19 pinion with the stock spur. But you will have to use the 67 spur if you plan to use the 22 pinion.

eylemkaan

12-27-2008, 08:31 AM

hi all,

been on the road and drifting for over years and had many TT 01/01Ds, HPI Pros and always nagged and bitched about offroads of aaaaaaany sort! :eek:

then lightning stroke :confused: and found myself clicking the BUY IT NOW! button for a DF 02 Plasma Edge :roll2:

now it's on the way home (maybe a week and hope before 31st of Dec) and I've started last week to browse through 136 pages of experience!!! Man I counted!!! :wave:

a bit of a loooong intro I know, and sorry, but I wanna draw some conclusions and place some more orders before the animal arrives ;) so please comment. let me summarize what I understood so far:

- great chassis durable and all that :huh: BUT needs more ground clearance. better buy some huge tires?
- dampers oooooh those dampers especially the ones on the back gotta go?
- some hoppin'up is good to go, dampers already said, but C hubs, turnbuckles, universal joints MUST be considered?
- good with a stock or <17T motor but better with a BL setup?

now this is it mainly, let me know what you really think is a MUST HAVE and a NECESSARY (I mean and insist on necessary, since I think all alu is only too much and very expensive for this baby) hop up.

best of all and a happy new year :driving:

timie1

12-29-2008, 12:36 AM

Welcome to the DF02 world.

Since you've had TT01's, you should be relatively fluent with the DF02 chassis, as it's very similar in most things.

I'm not really one to say what are absolutely necessary upgrades, as I'm running mine, for the most part, stock, and I've just been too tight to spend money on upgrading mine since getting more capable cars. I just put up with the annoyances on this car :D
Nevertheless, if I was to spend money on mine, I would definitely get some front CVD joints as they bind really bad on full lock while turning. The back dogbones are fine, albeit a little weak, and will twist in a short time with 19 turn power; but they still work. The rear outdrives will wear quickly too as they are some form of plastic blend. Mine are worn, but they still work, there is just more slop.

If your kit doesn't come with a full set of ball bearings in the drivetrain, I'd get them - they are really necessary.

Something really needs to be done about the suspension. Depending on your terrain you run on, you may never need more ground clearance. However, the odds are, you'll want more clearance. I think the easiest way is to get the Proline dirt hawg tires and mount them on your stock rims. It doesn't sound like a lot of extra clearance, about 8mm, but it makes a good difference. However, the back will still slap, just not as frequently.
If you're happy with the ground clearance, then I would suggest getting some better shocks, something a bit more progressive if you can. But I think any good (non progressive) shock will be a major improvement over the stock plastic ones. If you're getting 2 back ones, you may as well get the front too. The front doesn't slap as much, but the shocks are still very mediocre at best.
But then again, I am still running my stock ones - I just adapt and learn it's limitations. This is the problems of having many cars and limited money to spend on them - I'd rather delegate my budget to my other cars.

There is one thing that is needed on ANY car, and that is use decent connectors and cut off those horrid Tamiya plugs. With brushless you DEFINITELY need to use good connectors, I would recommend Deans, or the Traxxas plugs. I prefer the Deans because you can re-use them, the Traxxas are use-once-and-if-you-get-it-wrong-you're-out-of-luck, you have to cut the plug off and use another. Not so with Deans.

Aside from the above things, I honestly believe not much else is NEEDED. Possibley a range of pinions and spur, the 67t spur, but they aren't needed if you plan to put in a 17t motor, as the 70 spur is probably a bit more suited to it than the 67t spur.

If you use a 19-27 turn motor, then I would say the 67 spur is needed, but otherwise it's a luxury and in fact may not be needed on any motor less than 19 turn.

I wouldn't use aluminium parts either, they are too expensive (for the good Tamiya ones) or are no stronger, and heavier, than the plastic parts. The ONLY aluminium part I have is the GPM dogbones on the rear. So far they are holding up well, but I think now they don't do aluminium ones and do only titanium.

I was told by a LHS that upgrading the shaft from rear to front diffs is very beneficial. I don't know if I agree. It's plastic, and so far, after 5 years, it has shown no signs of wear/twisting. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, that's what I say. But, it's hard to say if it's better or not when I haven't driven a DF02 with the titanium shaft.

You too, have a happy new year:)

eylemkaan

12-29-2008, 12:46 AM

1st of all, thank you for the detailed answer, quite straight to the bone! And that's what I need with the limited budget just like you ;)
Dampers for the back and biiig tires/rims of 4 for better ground clearence: already ordered.
You are right with bearings, dogbones and maybe the shaft even... I'll put'em on my "next" list.
Thanks again and cheers!

timie1

12-29-2008, 01:27 AM

That's ok, you're more than welcome.

Do you know if your kit comes with bearings? I know that when I bought mine, which was ages ago, there were two options, either the RTR that came without a full set of bearings, and non-adjustable turnbuckles for the front steering, and I think it had even crappier shocks (I could be wrong with the shocks). The other option was a kit, which didn't come with the radio gear, but it had a full set of bearings, adjustable turnbuckles and better shocks, and obviously I had to build it and paint it. I MUCH prefer that to any RTR. Building it is as much fun, if not more, than running the car.

So, your Plasma Edge may come with bearings - hopefully it does because all the bearings will not be cheap if you buy them separately.

eylemkaan

12-29-2008, 01:52 AM

Mine is a kit as well, not an RTR guy myself ;) but I don't recall that it had ball bearings. They were optional. Let's wait and see LOL. CVD's, I never had a car w/out them, so most probably will purchase a set before the plastic sh*t gets ripped away. Anyways the kit should be around no later than a week, I'll post pictures of WIP in the comin'days. Catch'ya!

eylemkaan

12-30-2008, 03:45 PM

[QUOTE=timie1;2382194]That's ok, you're more than welcome.

Do you know if your kit comes with bearings? QUOTE]

I checked once again from the manual on the net, the kit comes with Tamiya 53008 ball bearings, so I don't need to have any :wave:

Forgetful_Duck

01-03-2009, 07:06 AM

Hi guys, new here, new to DF02, and have been observing this thread from a far away bush lol.

Anyhow I've just completed a DF02 Rising storm!

This is my first car..... well 10 years ago when i was a kid, me and my dad (more so him) put together a Dirt Thrasher.
From memory when i pwoered it up as a little boy it went crazy, the wheels spun without input, so i shelved the car never run, brand new completed kit.
Untill recently... i dug it out when moving house and did soem reserch now it runs!

Anyhow sorry for blabbering, but long story short found the thrasher too fun, so i got a DF02 after reading most of this massive thread.

Few things about my build. I bought Yeah Racing Alloy shocks and front and rear Shock towers... which i sadly have to say SUCK.

When I received the shocks i thoguth they were plastic... only till i put one to my face did get the 'cool metal feeling'.
The springs are also a JOKE, the stock tamiya shock springs are stiffer than the stiffest set (red) it comes with.
Also I had a crap oil seal in one of my rears which kept leaking out oil so i had to use a stock tamiya seal in its place. Just not worth the trouble....
And i won't go into the mounting screws.... very very poor standards in precision.

Quesitons about motor upgrades.

If i were to get a tamiya superstock motor, RZ, BZ, or TZ etc
Would i need to change my spurr or opnion gears? I'm using the stock 19T and 70T pin and spurs from the kit.

Also related, is it worth replacing the other 8 plastic bearings near the wheels with ball ones? Especially if i plan in future to get a super stock motor?
And what about the stock plastic Diff inserts and the ones near the wheels?

I know rcmart right now has GPM alloy parts on sale for numerous chassis's, and i could pick up a CVD for $22 or so, or 4 diff joints and 4 wheel joints for around $18.

man so many choices... god this hobby is expensive.
Anyhow ive only runt he car at crawl speed inside the house to trim and set up the ESC, have'nt let it loose yet.
Doing that coming tuesday with a friend who's also new to RC cars, at a indoor track!

eylemkaan

01-03-2009, 08:07 AM

hi there from behind the bushes ;)

you are completely right in many of what you said so far:
- YR alloys suck (most of the time): there's a lot of good stores on ebay where they sell NIB items from NIB RTR or KIT sets. I find them as a great opportunity to have the best ie. shocks with a low price, PM me if you need names rather than searching yourself), :cool:
- bearings = plastic THAZ BAAD, change them immediately when you have the chance,
- motor = lower T better rallying, higher T better traction. so you pick up one according to your game? there's also very meaningful low prices on ebay (again I know but I LOVE ebay) for cool brushless combo sets. but of course you will also need to consider buying a lipo and a balanced charger. for me even with a brushed system a lipo (2s 7.4V min) and a balanced charger is a must anyhow, because the performance will be a lot better and longer when you're on lipos. so why wait another chance? :winner:
- and finally yes, this hobby is a cash consumer still depending on your expectations from the hobby I have to say.

other than that great car, enjoy coz I'm missing mine: I'll have it this tuesday and start building it from scratch with minimal hop ups that I believe are necessary.

best of it all, thanks a lot for the pix. please await mine to come ;)

Steve at Danfor

01-03-2009, 08:46 AM

Watch out if you think of up-grading to lipos and brushless - Its the way to go but costs can get heavy - I advise going for broke and get the best charger you can afford - I purchased the Hyperion Duo (very versatile) but I need 2 batts for my Fast Electric Boat (Man that's insanely fun) - but they have lessor models fully upgradable by computer link and a 10 battery memory etc. so if you decided to leave the hobby you would get a fair return on your investment. Plus its fast and easy.

Forgetful_Duck

01-03-2009, 09:33 AM

I haven't thought about goign brushless anytime soon. Maybe a superstock tamiya motor after maybe a month.

I also just bought a ball bearing set on ebay.

I have a venom pro charger (cheesy name), it handles lipo's fairly well as i use it to charge my copter lipo's.

As for a car lipo, have been really tempted, but still cost quite a bit considering il have to add 33% to that USD price on rcmart, me being in Australia and all. Lipo's cost startign from $100 AUD and up at the local hobby shops.

While i can get venom 4600mAh NIMH batts for $55 each. Was planning to just get more of those.

Anyhow before i take it outdoors i was thinkign of sealing the front 2 sides of the cover to the chassis with velcro. Good idea?
Hoping to block out the kick up of ground matter when turning from the front wheels.

eylemkaan

01-03-2009, 11:21 AM

Hey Steve, you are 100% right. In LiPo chargers especially LESS IS NOT MORE, or less is more trouble! So anyone planning to buy a charger make sure you read reviews, forums, check your LHS for input, and then place an order.

...and Forgetful, there is certain brands on ebay, they offer quality with a low price. but and again please check reviews, forums before placing an order.

timie1

01-03-2009, 04:05 PM

Forgetful Duck........you may be interested in this lipo. http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8357&Product_Name=ZIPPY_Flightmax_4000mAh_2S1P_25C_Car_ Lipoly

The Zippy ones are actually quite good from what I've heard, and it's going to out perform any nimh, yet it's considerably cheaper.

This place here sells some good chargers at amazing prices with free shipping http://ecpower.com.hk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66&products_id=185

eylemkaan

01-03-2009, 04:40 PM

man timie1 what a relief!!! I was quite reluctant to give in names of sites or companies but you've helped me a lot there. ;)

EC power is DA and THE company! veeery low price profile (read how they do it, they tell it everywhere on ebay, etc) and guaranteed quality.

I've got 2 of their 4500 mah 7.4V 's lipos, and man they rule! no hickups, no losses, and I bought them (incl shipping) for -I think- around 20$s each :eek:

go for EC power, but of course check what others think as well, and on top of it make sure you have a reliable and balanced lipo charger. these things go in a set, if one of them suck you're in trouble.

Steve at Danfor

01-03-2009, 05:08 PM

I will give them a try too - Thanks

eylemkaan

01-03-2009, 05:13 PM

...also that they have a full refund / replacement guarantee for 15 days on any malfunctioning battery. man who would do that? T_miya, HP_, Ven_m, name one that would!

take a look into the brushless combos tab as well. :cool:

been over a year since I've first bought one of those 9T 4300 Kv + 35A combo's... man they run :cool:

Forgetful_Duck

01-03-2009, 11:07 PM

Timie1... thats one HELL OF A SITE!
Omg...drooling over it right now...

timie1

01-03-2009, 11:30 PM

Glad to be of help to all you people :D

I don't think the brushless combos are as great value as their chargers or batteries. If it were me, I'd rather buy a Castle Creations Sidewinder for $120 and know what I'm getting, and safe in the knowledge that the Castle is a tried and true system with amazing customer service.

However, that being said, these EC power combos may be just as good, and with free shipping worldwide, it's way better than paying for shipping. Who's gonna be the first here to try one?

Come on, I know someone wants to. Be a devil. Go for it!!!! ;)

eylemkaan: you are allowed to name drop in this forum. Don't worry about it. It's not the Gestapo run Traxxas forums. This is the free world forums :D (within reason as per the rules)

eylemkaan

01-04-2009, 02:47 AM

Let me spend some effort on these brushless combos: :teacher:

Ezrun, Hobbywing, Tekmodel... all these three are the same from the same producer in HK. So I'll call them Ezrun only just to make it easier.

I've run 9T, 10T and another 9T (4300 Kv, and 4000 Kv repectively). For over a year on different chassis, like TT01, HPI Pro 2. These motors are rock steady, I don't recall a moment in time that they got heated up, or choked, or any sort of disorder you'd classify.

When it comes to the ESC in the combo, man that is ticking clock. The combo's I had 35A ESC which support down to 9T brushless motors. Some combos come with 60A which supports down to 5.5T BL motors. Never heated up, grilled or anything. I used it under 40C sun and still cool with the small fan provided on top of it. :cool:

The programming card is a very nice tool. You don't need to hook the ESC up to your PC or anything. In the middle of your drive terrain you just hook the programming card to your servo, so simple! Many choices all up to your preferences: startup crunch, brake %, 1X...8X acceleration and all that...

Very stable system, and very powerful too. I remember the first time I ran the damn thing was with my old TT01, all alloy hopped up, flaming red! I had an 11.1V battery hooked up to the system. I've put the car down, hit the gas stick and man! man! maaaan! First the FOAM tires started drifting, second thing I remember was the evil sound of the system, whistling away from left to right, right to left and the last thing I recall was the rear diff gears flying in the air :eek:

These things are very serious! I never ran it with a 11.1V anymore :) Only with a 7.4 2S :roll2:

timie1

01-04-2009, 02:54 AM

eylemkaan

01-04-2009, 05:27 AM

LOL, that is a great review of it.

I for one am a believer that some things made in the East, sold under many brand names, can be very good stuff. Heck, most of the stuff sold in the West is just re-badged Asian stuff and the prices are 3x the price.

When I am shopping for my next brushless setup I think I may have to look seriously at the Ezrun. I've seen movies on youtube of them, and they look pretty impressive. I've just always thought the 35 amp limit is a bit weak. The Mamba Max esc is rated at 100Amps constant.

Thankyou for your honest review.

First of all, you could be right the highest ESC they have is the 60A, but still though fast the lightning :confused:

and second IT IS GREAT TO BE HERE in this forum, so THANK YOU!

and last but not the least, some pix of old setup with ezrun:
THE Car
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq338/eylemkaan/TT01-modifiye1.jpg
DA Setup :rolleyes: [check the BIG FAT UGLY 11.1V Lipo]
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq338/eylemkaan/TT01-modifiye4.jpg

Forgetful_Duck

01-04-2009, 08:27 AM

Thats one fat Lipo you have there :|

Ive watched a lot of youtube videos of buggy races and what not and see huge air's beign made on jumps. Do those buggies all Bottom out or what?
What's the deal there?

Is it generally accepted that all buggies WILL bottom out?

I havent set my springs down all the way but I can bottom out my DF02 by dropping it on all 4 wheels about 25cm (10" or so) height.

It makes me wonder how those competition buggies survive such huge jumps...

So then whats the best way to stiffen things up in the suspension?
Denser oil or Stiffer srpings? Both?

eylemkaan

01-04-2009, 08:36 AM

not for bashing and flying (not there yet) but been a drifter myself for over years and on that perspective my answer will be:
-stiffer springs first,
-could be an idea to use
> thicker damper oils,
> silicone nitro tubes as stoppers and
> maybe even longer dampers?

but I hope to see some real deal answers to this one, as I wonder!!!

timie1

01-04-2009, 03:03 PM

Yes I know your concerns about the buggy bottoming out.
Everything, with enough speed, or weight, or height of jump, will bottom out. You can't change the laws of physics unfortunately. As eylemkaan said, thicker oils, or longer dampers help, but I've said it once, and I'll say it again........the suspension geometry on the DF02 is crude, so I hate to say it, there isn't a whole lot you can do.

I have an Associated RC10B4, and it being a buggy as well, it has a lot more ground clearance. The suspension is much better designed, so very rarely does it bottom out for me - however I'm not one to do big jumps or race on rough tracks. I can drop it from a couple feet and it doesn't bottom out, unlike the 10cm the DF02 can take. But eventually the B4 will bottom out, it's just physics.

You could try doing the little bit of nitro tubing over the shock shaft trick. I didn't have much luck with that. It just takes out too much suspension travel for my liking. For an on-road car it might be fine, but offroad cars need suspension travel.

I recommend getting some different tires. The Proline Dirt Hawgs are brilliant, they fit the stock rims, add a considerable amount of ride height, provide gobs more grip, and last longer than the stock tires. Also, because they are larger outside diameter, they not only give more clearance, but a greater top speed - as it effectively makes the gearing higher.

You could try thicker oil and springs. The problem is this really won't give more clearance.

You could try longer and better shocks. This should fix the problem of crappy shocks and poor clearance, but it still can't change the geometry. I've heard that Duratrax Evader shocks fit and work well. Also, with the correct mounting hardware the RC10B4 shocks will fit and are a HUGE improvement over the Tamiya kit shocks.

Another thing I've tried is to make an adaptor by cutting some aluminium, that screws onto the rear suspension arms using the shock mounting holes. Then, my adaptor is like an "L" shaped extension. I cut a hole or two, in the upper bit of the L, and the shock fits in that. This changes both the geometry of the design, and also the ride height. I'll take some photos and get them posted ASAP. I have to put the bits back on the car first.

One other thing to check, make sure you have all the pre-load spacers on the shocks, this will add some clearance, and although the experts say it doesn't increase the spring rate, I think it does a little bit. Yeah yeah, I argue with everybody and I believe what I see, not just go on theory that somebody else dreamt up. It does appear to make the shock a bit stiffer with lots of pre-load spacers in there. But by all means, try it and see what you think.

For what it's worth, I've actually put a weird combination of oil in my shocks. I have some castor oil, from my leftover nitro days, and it's quite a thick oil. It works fine in the shocks, and especially if you live in a warm climate I think it would be alright. In a cold climate, like winter in Canada, the castor oil thickens up way too much, and it's like driving the car with no shocks.

eylemkaan

01-04-2009, 03:22 PM

LOL, but the thing is I'm hearing Proline Dirt Hawgs too often now :confused:

I got maself a set of four from traxxass slash tires for the df02. When I compare they will have more ground clearance. What do you guys think?

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z198/SnoopMaxx/slashwheels.jpg

timie1

01-04-2009, 04:27 PM

Those tires would be good, but I doubt they'd fit on a DF02. To start with, the slash is a 2WD truck. The front wheels won't have a 12mm hex adaptor. They will have a bearing that they mount on. I don't believe there is any way to make the FRONT fit.

The back may fit, I'm not sure on the fitting arrangement. If it's a 12mm hex then possibly it'll physically fit, but you have to worry about the offset, and the "axle" hole, so realistically it very well could rub and not spin freely (this is assuming it even uses a 12mm hex). If you look at the exploded diagram http://www.traxxas.com/PDF-Library/5805_rear.pdf on the Traxxas website, the adaptor I'm talking about is part 1654. It could be a 14mm hex, there is no mention of the size on their site, nor Tower Hobbies.

Also, you do realise that the Slash wheels are pretty big, right? They are way bigger than buggy wheels on the DF02. I may be worried that you can't gear the car low enough if you use those wheels.

If you're hell bent on using any tires other than the Prolines, (which I'm not sure why you'd want to, and I don't know what you mean by this........."but the thing is I'm hearing Proline Dirt Hawgs too often now ") which are good tires that will be better than any Traxxas Taiwanese rubber, and are designed for a buggy, so they actually work.........then I would consider the HPI rims that SteveatDanfor in this forum has bought, and get your choice of Proline truck tires to go on. Trust me, Proline rubber is made in the USA, and it's better than the inferior rubber coming out of Taiwan on all of Traxxas current designs.

Proline tires last a lot longer and give way more grip than Traxxas ones.

EDIT: Oh well, I stand corrected. The slash IS 2wd, but the front does use a hex to mount the wheels. Interesting!!

eylemkaan

01-04-2009, 04:35 PM

The only reason I bought the others and not the real ones is: I'm really limiting myself on the budget since I also wanna buy some alloys, shocks, a BL combo set, etc etc and these were really budget with especially rims, foams, tires together set.

For the hex size, they are 12mm: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUWB0&P=WR on the front and 12mm: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUWA8&P=M on the back. so shouldn't be any problems fitting them in.

but thanks for the open and direct comment anyhow :)

Steve at Danfor

01-04-2009, 04:38 PM

Here is how mine is coming along - Those are the Proline Moab Tires with Truck Rims.

eylemkaan

01-04-2009, 04:46 PM

Good GOD, loox awesome! Man my hands are itchy now... can't wait any longer to get mine in some cam shots.

timie1

01-04-2009, 05:53 PM

This is what I mean by the adaptor. Sorry about the crudeness of the diagram. It's not to scale:teacher: I just mocked it up right now as I couldn't be bothered finding all the bits to mount it on the car. :rolleyes:

Oh and I forgot the upper arm, but you get the idea.

You'll see that where the shock mounts on the arm, the holes are higher, thereby making the shock essentially longer in a roundabout sort of way. Drilling the upper holes on the adaptor isn't an exact science. You could put them anywhere along the horizontal plane. To increase spring rate at the wheel, you could put the holes closer to the wheel, or to decrease the spring rate (make the shock softer at the wheel) you could move the holes closer in to the centre of the car. I put a few holes in mine so I could experiment with different settings and suspension geometry.

It was made of 3mm aluminium. Just drill the holes the same diameter as the stock tamiya mounting hardware ball ends and the ball ends will self thread into the aluminium. Screw the adaptor into the mounting holes in the arm with some screws with the same thread as the ball ends.

This works for getting extra clearance to stop the rear end slap, for virtually no cost. If it makes the handling terrible, just cut out another one with different placed holes to change the geometry. Or if it really is hard to get right, you haven't altered anything, you can take it off and go back to the normal setup.

If you make major changes to the ride height, you may get binding in the rear dogbones. In that case I would suggest getting some CVD universal joints. However, when the car is on the ground the suspension compresses, so binding isn't really as much a problem when it's actually running, only when you hold it in the air. Be careful when you jump!

timie1

01-04-2009, 06:01 PM

It's looking good Steve. I am really liking those wheels and tires you've got on there. :D

How's the rest of it coming along? Got your electronics and driveling upgrades yet?

timie1

01-04-2009, 06:22 PM

Steve at Danfor

01-04-2009, 06:45 PM

Just waiting on a Robinson Racing Pinion Gear - I will start off with the smallest available and work up as I need to get used to RC driving (total newbie) let alone with Lipo and Brushless Power (VXL 3500 motor with Mamba Max ESC and Deans). I bought a nice Fatuba 10 model radio and that's a Metal Gear Hi Torque HiTec Servo in there with the steering mod. I will add a picture just because I can.

timie1

01-04-2009, 07:26 PM

Looking Gooooood!!!

I wish mine was all nice and new still:D

Just a minor observation with yours, on your esc you have the male leads to the motor with the female on your motor. That is generally not the best idea, as the esc leads are the ones with power coursing through their vanes, and so can be shorted out easily if they touch.

Just be careful not to touch them when you have it hooked up if the motor isn't plugged in.

Otherwise, it looks great.

To get a bit more room for the motor to fit, take that plastic cap off the motor and it's a made to measure fit. It'll fit with the plastic cap, but it is tight as you probably know.

Are you going to use the plastic Rx mount that sits over the centre and holds the servo in place? I would if I were you. Try to keep the ESC in the middle, it helps with weight balance and also keeps it out of harms way from dust getting flicked into the body from the front wheels. The ESC will fit on the tray next to the receiver.

Forgetful_Duck

01-04-2009, 07:35 PM

I thought the 2 piece tray could only be installed if you were using a tamiya servo?

timie1

01-04-2009, 09:41 PM

I thought the 2 piece tray could only be installed if you were using a tamiya servo?

Nope, as long as the servo you use is standard mounting then it should work. I use a Sanwa servo and it works fine.

eylemkaan

01-05-2009, 01:07 AM

eylemkaan

Yep you are right, they do have 12mm hexes :D That's interesting the front does as well.

Are you able to take a photo of them on the car? I'd like to see them. It's good if they work for ya. Any other options of wheels is always a great thing.

I understand why you bought them, as they are cheaper than the Proline ones. Would it be cheeky of me to ask how much you paid for them? ;)

Make sure you take a movie of your car running when you get it done.

Non of the items I've purchased has arrived so far... I think I'll have the car tomorrow. But for all the parts and all the work I'll treat this as my WoB (world of buggies) project and take pictures, and post'em on the forum. :wave:

Not cheeky at all: I purchased them for 24,95 + shipping (inluding tires, foams, rims).

timie1

01-05-2009, 02:32 AM

I'm not trying to be annoying or a know it all, so don't take this the wrong way, but the Proline Dirt Hawgs, including foams are:

Rear $11.99
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU13&P=ML

Front $9.99
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU14&P=7

Both those sets mount on the standard wheels in the kit.

So, that's a total of $22+shipping.

I'm CERTAIN you could get them cheaper than from Towerhobbies.

For Moabs like Steves they are more expensive, $15 per pair, plus rims, so THAT would be more expensive.

Anyway, I'm not trying to prove myself right, so don't think I am. I'm just pointing out that the Proline Dirt Hawgs are amazing for the price.

eylemkaan

01-05-2009, 04:26 AM

No no I don't get it that way anyhow don't worry. We live and learn by our mistakes, but check this from the links you've sent:

INCLUDES: Two Dirt Hawg III 2.2" Wide Front Tires
Two White Foam Donut Inserts
One Pro-Line Decal

These tires do not have the RIMs on them. So I have to pay an extra of 7-9$ per pair, so in total 15-20$ more to get the RIMs as well.

I've searched the whole of internet, ebay, tower, rcmart, rcwhateveryounameit.com :eek: these are the cheapest for the moment when it comes to NIB.

The price I've given is per 4 tires, 4 foam inserts and 4 rims included, all NIB and the shipping to Turkey is on 15$.

Tower sends them for 20-25$ per PAIR not SET.

Let me know if I've misread any communication on Tower's site AND thank you a big bunch for your frank, honest and friendly concern. Appreciated.

Steve at Danfor

01-05-2009, 08:37 AM

Hey - How come my attachments are being deleated. :(

eylemkaan

01-05-2009, 11:16 AM

That happened to me couple of times yesterday, I changed the pic size and it helped. Maybe ask the moderator?

timie1

01-05-2009, 04:42 PM

Eylemkaan:

You are right, the price in the links I posted DOESN'T contain rims, but I think perhaps you aren't understanding my post, RIMS and WHEELS are the same thing. In the line directly under the second link I say those tires work on the wheels/rims supplied in the kit. Therefore, no extra purchase is neccessary with those tires.

Also, Towers doesn't charger per pair for shipping, they charge on a weight basis organised in tiers.

But don't worry!!! :) It's all good. At least the way you've done it, you have 2 complete sets of wheels.

Steve: with the attachments, I don't know exactly how you do them, but there is a size limit of the jpg (or the other few allowable picture formats), I believe the max size is 1200x1200 pixels, and also a max file size (for jpg) 302kb. Whenever I attach something I usually resize it to 800 width anyway, that way it'll display on virtually everyone's monitor without having to scroll across the page - which gets annoying if you have to read every post on that page that way.

Just as a quick question? What attachment was deleted? I can't see any deleted attachments you posted. I mean, what was there before is there now ;)

eylemkaan

01-05-2009, 04:52 PM

then you are right, but again I don't want the stock rim/wheels. I also want them to be bigger :confused:

second is yepp tower don't charge per pair, but they charge per weight. and 2 pairs weigh 2 times more than one pair :D

whatsoever, your comments are always welcome. no offenses here don't worry.

Steve at Danfor

01-05-2009, 04:54 PM

My attachments are back! Oh good. I shall try to make 'em smaller. I will take the cap off that motor Timie.

eylemkaan

01-05-2009, 05:03 PM

I browsed many forums and now am really :confused:

Now you know my BL is on the way from HK. It is a 4300 Kv system, and I will run it with a 7.4V Lipo as my first experience (11.1V) almost blew the car into pieces. :D

I know that the stock Plasma Edge is coming with 70/19 (S/P). And we all know now that I'll be using 2.2" tires in this car.

What do you recommend, 70/16-17 or? 4.300 X 7.4 V wouldn't heat up the motor, or fry the ESC?

:confused:

timie1

01-05-2009, 05:23 PM

LOL :D

Eylemkaan.....Towers charges by weight but I said organised in tiers. So, for example, 0-100g = $5 101-500g = $10, 501-1000g (1kg) = $15
Don't quote me on those prices or the weight categories, it is just an example.
If 1 pair of tires weighed 40g, then 2 pairs is 80g, therefore, in that instance you would pay no more for shipping because the total weight is still under 100g.

Now, with your gearing options and your brushless 4300kv, always start with the smallest gear ratio. So 70/16 in your case. Also, just so you know, 2.2" tires are the internal diameter, or rim size. You need to factor in the external diameter of the tires if you want to adjust the gearing accordingly. According to the Tower hobbies link you posted a while ago, the external diameter is 4.37", not 2.2". That is quite a difference in terms of final drive ratio. I'd advise you to definitely go the smallest pinion and largest spur you can.

Check temperatures, and then go up in pinion if all is ok. I hope your motor will be ok with those big tires. Ordinarily a lower kv motor would be better, but see how the 4300 goes. I personally don't have a motor of that Kv, so I don't KNOW, I'm just taking an educated guess ;) I only own the Traxxas 3500kv, and the Mamba 5700. If it were me, I'd use the 3500 with those tires over the faster 5700.

eylemkaan

01-05-2009, 05:29 PM

:D I swear to God and heaven above next time I'll be buying Proline :D

for gearing yes, I'm always checking on 4.37" and of course not the rim/wheel size (except for times I rip off the tires off the wheels :p). sorry for the inconvenience caused if any.

and damn! I need to get a 16 size pinion :eek: ok, ok... for the sake of my motor! or my tires! whatever :rolleyes:

thanks

timie1

01-05-2009, 05:51 PM

:D:D:D:D
Eylemkaan......hehe, don't worry. I can be a bit biased at times, but honestly, I don't mean to tread on your decision to get anything. So, please don't take any of what I said the wrong way. The thing that makes this hobby exciting is all the different options. I personally liked the cars in the old days better because they were all different and unique and all had their own good and bad points. Nowadays most cars are all the same - we can thank Asia and RTR's for that - just look at the 1/8 scale buggies. They are all identical, apart from a few different decals.

So, what I'm trying to say is it's good you got what you wanted. Make your car unique and you have something to be proud of. If you make it like everyone else's, where's the fun in that?

Imagine if all the people on earth looked identical, that would very boring, and gross if everyone was like some people :eek: LOL

Is it cheaper for you to buy things from USA then if you bought them from England? I don't know how your currency compares to the british pound, but maybe shipping may be cheaper from the UK? - Just a thought:teacher:

Steve at Danfor

01-05-2009, 05:58 PM

Dinball finally shipped MY 16T pinion - It takes 2 weeks from Hong Kong.

eylemkaan

01-05-2009, 05:58 PM

I told you: no offenses, and all info is appreciated.

For almost anything I use HK not US, since the production and volume is there so the price offers are incredible. Only on very limited scope of some parts, or second hand stuff I prefer US.

I've considered buying from Europe many times already in the past, most of the time very limited in choices and many times more expensive than in US. which is considerably reasonable since the width & range of the hobby and the spending behaviours in US differs a lot from EU.
EU buys the most expensive stuff only basing choices on quality and uses them till it's bashed to the ground. US is a very dynamic market. Everything NEW today is going gone tomorrow.

On the currency side, nowadays GBP is a lot mpre advantageous for me compared to USD but, still again heaps of difference in price-wise.
So, gotta go to bed now, we'll see you tomorrow. (It's 1 am, and tomorrow morning I gotta go to work :) )

...and by the way already purchased my 16T pinion couple of minutes ago! Let's see how the WoB project will roll!!!

timie1

01-05-2009, 10:31 PM

Steve.....is that the pinion you ordered ages ago or just recently?

At the rate it's going, you'll get it all built just as the snow melts:D That'll be perfect timing hehe.

Forgetful_Duck

01-06-2009, 12:15 AM

hi guys... im depressed...

Me and a friend went to a indoor carpet track today, i took my brand spanking new DF02, he ahd his el cheapo HSP brushless buggy.

Anyhow... long story short, The nitro guys rocked up and just wrecked the mood.

They were zooming so fats it made us drive mroe aggressively, and hence more accidents.

The damage....

Bent front Allow shock Tower, Year Racing Front damper, the end of the piston where it threads into the plastic holder, well it kept popping out on hard impacts. Also by the end of the day when i bent the shock tower, also bent the 'bolt' at the top of the damper. Can't even pull the bolt out of the hole now.

Looks like i'm gonna have to make those Kit Shocks and use the plastic tower. Waste of money those alloy upgrades!

But before everything started goign wrong, the buggy was AWESOME!
Running a 4600mAh pack, i didnt have the raw acceleration as my friends 3300KV brushless, but i was pretty much matching his speed on the long bumpy straights with my Sport tuned black Can. Though he was using his really bad 2000mAh pack, once he switched to his identical to mine 4600mAh battery he just took off like a missile... an uncontrollable one.... lol

timie1

01-06-2009, 12:22 AM

Oh that's gotta suck. I feel for ya, man.
My friend bought an alloy front shock tower, I think it was GPM, or maybe it was Yeah Racing.....I dunno, but anyhow he had the same problem. That bolt bent almost as soon as he put it on the car. Needless to say it is pretty much useless now. You can't get the bolt out, actually his one broke in there.

If I were you, only buy Tamiya alloy parts, or stick to the plastic - the plastic is much more durable than the cheap chinese alloy. I think on some things the alloy from china is alright, but for most things, Tamiya plastic is stronger.

Remind me again, what motor are you running? The 23 turn Tamiya ones?

Forgetful_Duck

01-06-2009, 12:27 AM

Using a RS-540 Sport Tuned Tamiya motor.
It's black, not sure how many turns it is though, all i know is that its the next one up fromt he stock silver motor.

Also i have just put together the Stock kit, frotn shocks... Did i not fill it with enough oil? (up to the top) bcause its REALLY springy.... not damped enough... this i goign to be terrible on jumps! =(

Steve at Danfor

01-06-2009, 03:35 AM

Yeah Timie - That pinion was just ordered at New Year - I am in no rush as the snow is still deepening. I did a search on EBay for an RC snowmobile to see if I can mod one out with brushless and lipos!! I got a knockoff brushless motor coming tha I may try to drop in a 1/16 Tamtech Frog I just got for way cheap on EBay - They are overstocked and going cheap now. Also I am working on a nicely tricked out Accociated RC18T - and then of course there are my Fast Electic RC Boats - Man they are gas - Steve

timie1

01-06-2009, 04:06 AM

When you assembled the kit dampers, what shock piston did you use? On the tree of parts (V and X), there are 3 pistons. The kit says use the piston with 2 holes, (step 17 in the book). To add more damping, use the piston with only 1 hole, which I think is part X8. It does help somewhat to get rid of the springyness.

Edit: LOL, why was my "T" not typing in piston?? Weird.

Forgetful_Duck

01-06-2009, 04:11 AM

Yeh i soon realised when i looked at the parts... and thought oh crap...

Then spent the next 30 mins trying to get the little metal round thing that clips on to the rod to come OFF so i can change the piston.

I tell you, it was messy and super frustrating. had oil everywhere, had mini pair of pliers tryign to push at the damn thing but end up digging the plier sinto my finger and thumb...

In the end i managed to change the pistons to Single hole, and yeh big difference, but i think might need thicker oil still...

As for Alloy hop ups, I've gievn up on them (3rd party brands).
Unless anyone have good suggestions, I'm seriosuly considering forking out for a set of these....
http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-damper-tamiya-buggy-dampers-54028-p-26110.html?cPath=389_390

timie1

01-06-2009, 04:18 AM

Hey Steve, I used to have an RC snowmobile. I actually got it from The Source. Talk about a piece of junk. Absolute garbage. It would go about 30 feet and that was it's range. The turning radius was about 10 miles, or at least further than it's range, and it wouldn't run in anything other than hard packed snow. In fresh snow, my Emaxx would fare much better. In hard packed snow, my emaxx owns the snowmobile. The speed of it was about a snails pace. In fact, it would have been more fun to own an RC snail :D

So, if you get one, don't get a toy grade one, you will sorely waste all money. I was going to outfit mine with something a bit better, but the design of it required way too many mods, especially the steering servo area, for me to justify spending money getting it working. I had more fun pulling mine to bits then I ever did "driving" it. I pulled the motor out of it, which is a respectable 550 mabuchi motor, and salvaged a few led's, and then threw it in the garbage. The sad thing was it looked really cool. I probably should have kept it and made a shelf queen out of it, but.....I didn't want to pay to ship it when I moved to Calgary last year.

That is single handedly the biggest waste of money I've ever spent on anything.

I've got a electric SLOW boat. I may modify it sometime, it's a double motor setup, so the potential is there. In Calgary though, there are no lakes, only a fast flowing river. I can't use it, so there is no point modifying it:flame:
It's an MRC Academy boat which I "inherited" from a family member.

timie1

01-06-2009, 04:29 AM

Forgetful Duck.....those dampers would be WAAAAAAAAAAAYYY better. You will not regret them. There is, or was, another slightly cheaper Tamiya set for the DF02. They just used spacers, not threaded like the ones you linked to, but they were aluminium and looked considerably better. They weren't cheap mind you. They were about US$60. The ones you found look better though.

I find the easiest way to get those e-clips off is to get a small flat head screwdriver and wedge it in the tiny gap around the e-clip and just twist the screwdriver. Hold the e-clip otherwise it'll go flying and murphy's law says you won't find it until 6 months later when you spring clean and you don't need it then.

eylemkaan

01-06-2009, 03:16 PM

Forgetful_Duck

01-06-2009, 03:20 PM

Yeh, the normal aluminium blue dampers for DF02, around $35 USD now only on ebay.

I found those same (54028) TRF damper set on etamiya (also a HK store) for $56.67 + 5.60 shipping.

Looks tempting considering i could well possibly be using these same shocks over the years as i go over to newer cars..... (investment perhaps?)
But whats keepign me from diving in right now is, how these will be mounted... In some pictures it seems has some sort fo a socket that goes into a ball , the end that attaches to the suspension arms.
I'm hoping these sockets will attach to the brass 5mm ball connectors on the DF02?
Anyhow in any case, i'm gonna head over to my mates house and see his DB01 build and look at how his shocks are mounted, only RC mart say they are usable with DF02, the rest say DF03, DB01, DT02 etc...

And thanks for that tip timie1, definitely note that down next time i try removing those e-clips.

Steve at Danfor

01-06-2009, 04:47 PM

Hey Timie - I just got my Robinson 16T Metric Pinion in from Tower - I like getting packages in the mail so I order from all the guys. I got the mesh just right with my metal motor mount and am fastening the rest of the electrics in soon - I am using the stock 70T Sprur Gear even though I have an alumium one. The Differential Posi-Lock Spool in the rear may make it a bit unforgiving although I think the torque will be great without any overheating. Am I saying that right? Also I have the guys with the cheap Lipos ready to send me a nice battery when the get a fresh batch. I will keep you guys posted - It's gonna be some sick ride! What are ideas for decals on the body I am going to use (pic posted earlier)- Steve

timie1

01-06-2009, 05:57 PM

Steve....decals for the stadium truck body should be relatively easy to find. There are loads of stadium trucks about. I know there is an inkjet kit where you can design your own decals and then print them on some adhesive, I suppose like printing onto an overhead transparency (OHP) from the old days. It only works on an inkjet though. Also, for the life of me, I can't work out how you'd be able to print white using an inkjet, so any decals you make you'd be best to avoid using white. White would "print" as transparent so whatever colour any body is, that's what the so called white would be.

Do you like flames on your bodies? As a general rule I don't, but on my Gravel hound the decals ARE flames :( So, that's my only car with flames.

My favourite paint job of all my cars is my Ferrari body for my TA05 on road car, which I copied from this http://www.aaronsdayoff.com/uploaded_images/Novitec_Ferrari_430_Scuderia-789318.jpg
The racing stripes are so sexy, even if I do say so myself. Anyhow, that's what I like, simple designs. Racing stripes as decals would look alright. At Canadian Tire in the auto section, you can buy reels of full-size car pinstripes of all different widths and colour. I was thinking of that to do my racing stripes, but I elected to paint them on, as I was painting the body from scratch.

Also, go to your LHS, usually they have sheets of all different decals. There's bound to be something you like.

Great news on the pinion. Yeah, it's fun getting things in the mail!

eylemkaan

01-06-2009, 06:00 PM

yepp my Plasma Edge box has arrived today, and guess what also my tires and my rear shock.

I promised pix, and here they are. please click on the ugly box to see more:

http://s461.photobucket.com/albums/qq338/eylemkaan/Plasma%20Edge/th_S6303553.jpg (http://s461.photobucket.com/albums/qq338/eylemkaan/Plasma%20Edge/?action=view&current=955033ae.pbw)

Hi all, clicking on the ugly box starts a slideshow where you can see the finished chassis work. please comment?

for the wip to be complete, I still need the BL set, and some blue alu's.

Steve at Danfor

01-06-2009, 07:31 PM

Looks good bro just like mine - I shall give all your suggestions a try Timie - Take Care Guys - Steve

timie1

01-06-2009, 07:50 PM

Eylemkaan: It does look good. Those traxxas wheels seem to fit well. I'll have to eat humble pie ;) You should get this http://cgi.ebay.com/OP788-Tamiya-DF02-DF-02-Turnbuckle-Shafts-Gravel-Hound_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34061QQihZ016QQit emZ260268143523QQrdZ1
I've got that same thing, and it adds some nice blue aluminium and the all important bling factor, plus actually being useful to adjust camber. Probably neccessary with those larger wheels. Here's the official Tamiya link with some info http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=53788

Steve, you should think about getting that camber kit as well.

- Andrew

timie1

01-06-2009, 07:57 PM

Forgetful Duck: You could try these shocks http://www.stellamodels.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75_142&products_id=3510
They are for the DT02, but I am pretty sure they are the same for the DF02. 3Racing parts, the shocks especially, are, I believe, better than Yeah Racing, or GPM. Still not as good as Tamiya, but...:confused:

Forgetful_Duck

01-07-2009, 02:33 AM

Timie1, have you used 3 racign shocks before? (handled them)?
They also seem to have good user reviews on rcmart.com, the reviewer also bashed how crap yeah racing shocks are... That i totally agree.

$22.90 Should i give em a try? Or go all the way TRF off road ones haha. My bank account is screaming...

On the other hand i just bought some 50wt silicon shock oil from a local store. Not sure how the rating in wt goes... The guy wasnt helpful at all!
I asked the sales assistant what would the losi shock oil wt rating be equivilent to medium or hard be.

he kept pissing me off saying theres no answer, and i kept sayign well... for a 1/10th buggy around 1.4kg weight... what would be... a medium or hard oil?
Then he would tell me to read my damn manual...Arghhh
So stupid, getting no where with that guy, so i bought the 50wt seeing that 100 is the highest rating therefore Thickest i presume... /end rant

Filled the stock plastic shocks with the new oil, Alot better!
No springiness anymore. Might hold off on a purchase see how these stock shcoks hold out...

timie1

01-07-2009, 02:57 AM

Heh, yeah I know, most LHS people are pretty thick. I usually go in to many places and teach THEM something - not always, but usually.

So you got 50wt losi oil? That's great news if it gets rid of the bouncy-ness. Keep us updated how it works out. I wouldn't base too much on how they feel just sitting there. Run the car, because I have some weird oil in my front plastic shocks. It is too hard, it doesn't feel bouncy at all, but on the road it's like there are no shocks. It's just too hard.

I've never handled any 3racing shocks, the only 3racing thing I have is a motor heatsink with fan. Quality wise it's not bad, not as good as the Tamiya heatsink I have, but then again, I wouldn't expect it to be.

If you still want new shocks, they probably aren't too bad. See if you can double check how long the DT02 shocks are compared to DF02. I think they're the same, but I could be wrong. Considering they are a lot cheaper than Tamiya, but look as good, and get not bad reviews, if it was me I'd give them a try.

Forgetful_Duck

01-07-2009, 03:18 AM

I think length wise they wotn be an issue.

On RCmart theres 3 racing shocks for Db01 and DF03, the user review for the df03 ones were where the user used them on the df02.

Plus any variation in length, simply just change which hole on the arm to screw it to. Also checked out my Friends DB01 build, he just finished making the drive train, complaining how everythign wasn't laid out in sections, he basically had to open every bag to get X , Y, Z.....

Compared to the DF02 build which was confined to either Parts bag A, B , C etc for each section of the build.... I thought... damn i was lucky.

Thing to note was his DB01 came with HARD tamiya silicon shock oil... #900 to be precise... The hardest beign #1000 i think. length of his shocks are in the same order as the DF02 so i think the TRF off road shocks would be awesome indeed... but for a final price of $80+ AUD... leaning 3 racing....

timie1

01-07-2009, 04:32 AM

Tamiya use a different scale when they label their oils. Tamiya #900 is not 18 times thicker then your 50wt losi, if that's what you mean by HARD :)

Yeah, I think shocks only vary by a few mm anyway for 1:10 buggies, so it's either they are like 50mm or 55mm and 100mm and 105mm for front and back respectively. Even if they are a tad shorter, you can get the height by adjusting them by screwing the ends on more or less, or adding more pre-load.

I don't know why Tamiya labelled their bags for the DB01 like that, really un tamiya-like. I'd heard that before, but I thought "oh well", just adds to the fun in assembly :D

eylemkaan

01-07-2009, 05:17 AM

Hey Timie,

Good tip on the blueberries :rolleyes: I've already got them on my watchlist. I want to wait till all is in and drive to see what is most needed.

Reading your comments on oil weights... man the stock kit comes with an oil from Tamiya that is as light as the olive oil in my salad :D I'm sooooo glad I read the forum and immediately changed the stock shocks. Lousy!

Hey Forgetty,

Isn't it always the same? You either buy a stock animal (ie TRF) or buy a duck and turn it into YOUR kinda swan. I always pick up the my kinda stuff, and it costs me more than the other usually. But still, more effort put in by self, more precious it is for me. :teacher:

Steve at Danfor

01-07-2009, 05:26 AM

Yep Timie - I figured I'd need them - They are in the order from Dinball shipped on Monday - I have to do a little custom trimming on the ESC and receiver tray to make it fit around my bid Hitec Servo. I shall supply a pic later- Steve

Steve at Danfor

01-07-2009, 07:20 AM

Hi Timie - Should I chop off the switch on my Mamba Max ESC and splice on the original Tamiya Switch from the kit - I would have to chop it off the stock ESC/Receiver module as well - I've read the Mamba switches are poor and the stock Tamiya fits so well - I hate to chop up the good parts though I probably will if you say so Man! :D I want that Tamiya Switch in place if advisable. Steve

timie1

01-07-2009, 01:07 PM

Do you want my long or short answer?:D

I reckon the people that say the Mamba switch gets broken easily are the people who break every other part on their cars because they jump their cars off 20ft cliffs, and then go blaming the car for being weak.

If the car is 1:10 scale and they jump it off a 1ft jump, it's the same as jumping their real life car off a 10ft jump, and I wouldn't do that if I were you. So jumping their car off a 20ft jump is like jumping their full size one off a 200ft jump. Call me crazy, but I wouldn't jump any car off a 200ft jump.

So, if I were you I would leave the Mamba switch in there. It's been over a year and my switch is still going strong. It would be NICE to have a solid switch that can mount properly like the Tamiya one, but to hack up perfectly good things because SOME people are extremely rough seems arbitrary to me. Wait till your Mamba one breaks, then splice in a proper one.:teacher:
- Andrew

eylemkaan

01-07-2009, 02:39 PM

I did a quick paint on the original body, since I'll be using another one (keep it in the closet, I'll post a pic when it comes). I think it looks cool, so wanted to share:

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq338/eylemkaan/Plasma%20Edge/S6303574.jpg

timie1

01-07-2009, 03:36 PM

Looks good Kaan.
You're lucky you live in Turkey :) I'm in Canada, and one time I was painting a body inside in the basement and I couldn't work out why the paint dried all rippley. I spent ages trying to get it to dry properly, then I realised that it was too cold INSIDE. It must have been about 10°C inside.
I decided to take all the dried paint off the body, which is a lot of work, but it is doable. I then took the paint and body upstairs where it was heated and it worked. The paint dried like it should. I knew paint needed warmth to be properly applied, but I would have thought 10C would have been warm enough.

The moral is, now I only ever paint in summer, or in a nice warm room at least 20°C. Its a lot of work to go into to risk in slightly cold temps.

Forgetful_Duck

01-07-2009, 03:57 PM

Kaan I just have to ask, what Shocks are you using? Seeing ur picture, damn ur build looks neat!

And i WANT THOSE WHEELS!

eylemkaan

01-07-2009, 04:10 PM

Kaan I just have to ask, what Shocks are you using? Seeing ur picture, damn ur build looks neat!

And i WANT THOSE WHEELS!

Shocks I used on the back are actually the front shocks of a 1/8 OFNA LX. I bought it from ebay NIB and I think I paid 15$ including shipping to Turkey. Man they are better and stiffer than anything I've seen so far.

For the front I've ordered and waiting for a Yeah Racing alu set. Currently the fronts are stock and they are BIG LOOSERs I have to tell.

Tires are more than I've expected to be frank, I just bought them since they were quite cheap. But I have to admit, they rule!

Now on the way is the alu shocks (both), BL combo system, front alu shocks, some ABS spares and maaan a great body.

There's a store in ebay "nitro-master". Those guys (Dave I think) sell parts of many cars NIB pulled out from sets. Both the SLASH tires, the OFNA shocks, and many others I bought from them. Veery low priced, honest and decent guys. You need to keep an eye on their inventory.

eylemkaan

01-07-2009, 04:16 PM

Looks good Kaan.
You're lucky you live in Turkey :) I'm in Canada, and one time I was painting a body inside in the basement and I couldn't work out why the paint dried all rippley. I spent ages trying to get it to dry properly, then I realised that it was too cold INSIDE. It must have been about 10°C inside.

Well actually I live in a city called Bursa, which is very famous for the skiing center open from Nov till Apr. So, cold eyh? Today it is 5C. But my profession in this hobby is painting I can humbly tell. I do like 30 paintjobs per year on minimum, since I also paint for other people. The secret to painting in cold and still making it look nice:
- paint out, fast, very very thin layers (never spend more than 20-30 secs outside),
- take it in place it over the radiators at home for max 10 mins (minimum 2-3 layers of newspaper underneath),
- cool out (never do the second layer when body is warm)
- repeat at least 5-6 times,
- make sure you ventilate the drying room,
- make sure you have an excuse to wify :D

That is it. Many thin layers fast and furious.

Steve at Danfor

01-07-2009, 04:43 PM

Timie - I hope to be careful so I will follow your wise advice - Steve

timie1

01-07-2009, 10:53 PM

Kaan: yeah man, its cold alright. Lately here its not been warmer than about -10°, but average temp has been -20°C.

Like you said in your advice, I too discovered how much better it was to paint using heaters/radiators (not the fan forced heaters, they just blow the paint away)

Thanks for your advice though. I think unless I absolutely have to, I will just paint in summer time.

Steve at Danfor

01-08-2009, 06:09 AM

Hey Timie - You gotta check out this snowmobile - http://www.artattacksnowmobile.net/index.html - I am enquiring as to the price of the kit - Can be really moded out with Brushless & Lipo. The snow is only getting deeper out here in Ottawa and my stamps are selling like hotcakes on EBay. I will look for some more opinions on this one. - Steve

Steve at Danfor

01-08-2009, 06:14 AM

Hi Again Timie - So where did you put your switch?

eylemkaan

01-08-2009, 07:13 AM

Forgetful_Duck

01-08-2009, 02:14 PM

Hey guys, MAN me and my friend with his DB01 had the funnest night EVER.

He had his newly built DB01 running stock everything, And i had just replaced the last remaining plastic bearings for ball ones. we charged our batteries and went out at 1am to the local shopping center parking lot to let our cars loose.

The parking lot has both outdoor and indoor underground, all fully lit, with a few nice speed bumps, SmOOTH Cemet surface.
I also had fitted some cheap bashign TOpcad wheels (din wanna ruin the nice tamiya ones), and MAN it was aweosme fun.

Buggy Drifting! We did follow the leader thing, and weaved i and out around light poles etc, either spinning out at times or gettign that perfect cornering, it was just so much fun.

We ran through 4 4600mAh packs and 2 2000mAh ones. was out there for 2 hours!

To make things even more fun also taped up the wheels with masking tape. it was insane.

In running the car i've learnt a few things about the DF02. Stock shocks are no problem! I've driven it off 3 (small) stairs and laned it perfectly no bounce.

Also the DF02 tends to understeer quite a bit, even without maskign tape on all the wheels, but once you get the hang of the handling, its a very fun RC car to drive.

Also the RS-540 Sports tuned motor is a pretty big leap above the stock silver can motor, which wass powering the DB01. I was out gunning it on all the straights, but then udnersteer kicks in on the cornering =(.

On the DB01 the exact opposite was to be observed.
It Oversteers ALL the time. Might just be badly tuned camber or toe in? but my friend would spin out a lot if he full throttled it and ripped left or right.

But overall looking at the geometry of the Db01, especially the suspension arms on frotn and rear, and the way the front wheels are positioned when in full turning lock, it definitely puts my DF02 into the 'cheap' category.

Anyhow all that sliding around, minimal wear and tear to the cheap wheels.
Now time for bed... 5am...

eylemkaan

01-08-2009, 02:22 PM

man, DB01 is a TRF right? so actually our DF02's are "cheap" when we're talking about DURGA :D meaning... you are right, meaning... durga is a lot better :rolleyes:

you got some pix of the nite?

timie1

01-08-2009, 03:18 PM

Steve: With my switch in the DF02, as that setup is only temporary in this car, I just either use electrical insulating tape or cable ties and attach it to one of the many looms of wires that bunch up in the centre of the car under the cockpit of the body. I know it's hardly scientific, but it works. As I said, it is only temporary in my gravel hound.

How I normally mount the switch in my other cars, is get some good double sided tape, http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=10051&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&N=0&Ntk=level1&Ntt=no%20more%20nails%20tape&Nty=1&D=no%20more%20nails%20tape&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&s=true, and cut a small patch of tape to fit on the switch, about a 5mm square bit, and stick it to (usually) a vertical surface. Sometimes in some of my cars there is no vertical surface in reach of the ESC and wire, so in that case I attach it to the side of the RX. Although I usually try to put it where I can easily reach it without taking the body off, that way if I have to quickly flick it off for some reason (which hasn't happened yet - touch wood) then I can pry the body up, and off it. Make sure you put it somewhere so the body won't knock it, which could break off the switch from an impact, or turn it off while you're driving. I would suggest on side of the receiver

I know it is a hassle with the small switch. Maybe you should splice in another switch and then mount it properly where it's meant to be in the chassis. It would be quite easy, electrically.

Go on, do it!!! :D You know you want to!!

timie1

01-08-2009, 03:22 PM

Steve: those snowmobiles are bound to be lots better then the junk I bought.

timie1

01-08-2009, 03:26 PM

man, DB01 is a TRF right? so actually our DF02's are "cheap" when we're talking about DURGA :D meaning... you are right, meaning... durga is a lot better :rolleyes:

you got some pix of the nite?

Actually, that isn't all together correct. :) The TRF version is the TRF501X, which is the grand daddy of the Durga DB01.
Here is a beautiful write up of the 501X http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/review501x/

It is nearly the same as the Durga, but the Durga is cheaper and uses many cheaper components. However, the geometry is the same, and so is the overall design. :D

Steve at Danfor

01-08-2009, 03:48 PM

Wow - I have read that before when I was researching what to buy. I figured the Gravel Hound was a great starter for me - plus I love that name for some reason. I don't call mine a Plasma Edge - She's a Hound! But Man - I like that TRF 501X. I have a couple of bills US$ in PayPal and have some juice auctions ending Saturday AM. Also for $60. you can get a little devise to aid in setting up all the geometry perfectly - Now that's a nice accessory - I know its a racers item but I can dream. We Shall See!!

eylemkaan

01-08-2009, 03:50 PM

Actually, that isn't all together correct. :) The TRF version is the TRF501X, which is the grand daddy of the Durga DB01.
Here is a beautiful write up of the 501X http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/review501x/

It is nearly the same as the Durga, but the Durga is cheaper and uses many cheaper components. However, the geometry is the same, and so is the overall design. :D

...and shortly that is what I meant :teacher:

timie1

01-08-2009, 04:11 PM

Steve: Yes you probably did the right thing. I have a TA05 road car, which is bascially the onroad version of the DB02. As far as capabilities go, the belt drive chassis does offer more in tuning, therefore more capable a car, however also more to categorically stuff up when you build it or make a change. And belt drive is more picky with lots of brushless power, and rocks, and sand, and other things.
The Gravel Hound is simple, yet robust, FUN, and with upgrades can be very quick. It's probably one of the best entry level cars, and even still provide enough complexity to keep a seasoned driver (not racer) happy with it to just bash around with.

I've still got mine obviously. Not that I consider myself a racer, but it still keeps me happy with it, and I have no plans to sell mine. I didn't buy mine as an entry car. I first got into RC back in the late 80's, so this was just a buy I made ages ago cos I wanted it :)

Steve at Danfor

01-08-2009, 04:20 PM

I am itching to try out that Traxxas Velineon Motor you advised me to drop in - after some research I truly believe it is an ideal motor for me - power wise.

timie1

01-08-2009, 04:34 PM

Is there much snow there? I would drop it in if I were you and just take it out, as soon as you get your pinions and radio. Go to a shopping mall or movie theatre parking lot and take it underground. Try not to test it out in an electrically noisy area, you don't as yet know how your radio will work. Maybe there may be too much interference and to have it go run away and crash and burn and die on the maiden voyage won't be fun - I'll have to nickname you Titanic. :)

timie1

01-08-2009, 04:39 PM

...and shortly that is what I meant :teacher:
:D

Sorry,I didn't want to undermine you. Re-reading what you said yeah now I get what you meant.

Steve at Danfor

01-08-2009, 04:43 PM

OK Timie - That sounds good - There is a ton of snow here now - I will get a Lipo battery from the source you gave us earlier. I do have 2 lipo's from my boat - 3000 MAH 7.4 Max Amp beauties. - Will one of those get her going?
I am going to drill out a little spot on the side of the Hound to accomodate the Mamba switch. I sort of hate to cut up that part and I did not like the stock placement of the switch. My spot is ideal for me. Any tricks for gluing the tires to the rims? - I have some super runny CA glue. I like the looks of the Durga and Baldre - Hmmm. - Steve

timie1

01-08-2009, 06:13 PM

I wish there was some way to change my forum name. Timie sounds like a little kid, like the boy in Lassie or some stupid Nestle ad on tv. Oh well!
You can call me Andrew.

Oh yeah, those 3000mah lipo should be good. Do you know what C rating they can discharge at? I would say 15-20C+ should be fine, as if you're constantly discharging more than 45-60amps, then something is way too wrong in any 1/10 scale car.

On average, the discharge of my setup is about 15 amps constant. I worked it out a while ago, and it's anything but scientific, but my 4600mah nimh can last roughly 25 minutes or so.

Then again, I don't have big tires on my gravel hound, and they will up the current draw.

Ask in the general electrical forum about your 3000 maxamps batteries and your setup. I don't have lipo, so getting some knowledge from a lipo user would be better. I bet you RCCARDUDE04 will be the one to answer you:) He's very knowledgable about virtually everything.

I wonder how long it'll be before they get some more of those lipos in at Hobbyking?? I haven't placed an order for them yet because they are on a bigtime back order list. I knew that Paypal will take money from the paypal account, but I didn't realise that when there isn't enough in your payapl account, it'll then take the balance out of your normal bank account. I just assumed the whole lot had to be in the paypal account, or you had to transfer it over yourself, which takes about 10 days. I deliberately didn't bid on some things because I knew I didn't have enough in paypal and it would take too long to transfer it if I won the auction. I'd rather keep the money in the bank and only transer what I have to when I have to, because it makes a bit more on interest sitting in the bank.

Gluing the tires with CA will work well. My technique is:

1. Wash the inside of the tire with dish detergent and hot tap water. Then dry.

2. Use sandpaper, about 150 grit, and fold it into a small manageable bit and scuff the bead of the tire where it sits inside the rim. Just take the shine off. It should take approx 2 minutes per tire.

3. Wash the tire again to get rubber granules off.

4. Scuff the rim with the same sandpaper, but only the bead where the tire sits.

5. Wash the rim with same method as tires. Then dry with a lint free towel or hairdryer.

6. Put foams in tire and making sure you have it on the wheel the right way (for a directional tire) marry the two together.

7. Mount the wheel on the car and power the car up and spin the wheels slowly. Or if the car isn't completely put together, put the wheel on the car and spin by hand, but carefully. This step is to make sure you have it all seated properly before you glue. The foam can bunch up easily, and now is the time to check for major imbalances with foam and tire.

8. When it's as balanced as you can get it, then start gluing. Super runny CA glue is best as it'll flow along the tire. Very carefully, not to upset the balance of the space time continuum ;), pull back a bit of tire to expose the bead. Put a dab of glue on the bead and push the tire back. The glue will seep along the tire and bead. Where the glue stops seeping, pull it back and dab some more glue. Keep going until one complete side of the tire is done. Before the glue sets, make sure there are no lumps on the bead area from pulling the tire away. If so, push or mold them back to sit properly now.

9. Put tire on table with the glued side up. Go and do the other tires.

10. When all 4 tires are done, turn the first one over and do the same to the other side. Then let to dry with the newer glued side upward.

11. When all is done, I like to get the glue and apply a small layer on the finished bead. It'll fill in any gaps and make it extra strong. It should just self bead around the wheel.

12. Let dry for 20 minutes and you're all set.

If you get white dried stuff coating your tires, just wash off that dried white stuff when it's dry. Some glues leave it, some don't.

13. When it's all dry, put the wheels on the car and check the balance again. If you properly checked the foam and it's seating before, it should be ok, but 9 times out of 10 I have to readjust the foam by molding the tire and moving the foam around after it's glued. With normal driving the tire will balloon and hopefully help to keep the foam just right in terms of balancing.

When you get the body cut away for the switch, could you please take a photo of it? I'd like to see it.

- Andrew

Steve at Danfor

01-08-2009, 09:20 PM

Great reply with respect to the tire gluing Andrew - I shall follow it - I was wondering about "balancing" but I know what to do now - Thanks = I shall have that pic in soon - Steve

timie1

01-08-2009, 10:31 PM

Oh Steve, with step 7, if you spin the wheels by hand, you want the wheels to spin freely. So probably best to disconnect any dog bones or CVD's. It is better to use the motor to spin the wheels. You'll get the feel of how quick to spin them with the motor. You need to do it fast enough to feel and see the imbalances, but not so quick the tire flies off the unglued rim. For me this is the most painstaking task, especially with offroad wheels. The foams and sidewalls of the tires are huge, so there is a lot more to get right. You fix one point on the wheel and another point develops out of balance. Just keep perservering. This is why it's better to use the motor to spin the wheels, because each time you touch the wheel, to spin it, you could very easily make that bit out of balance. It could be a never ending cycle.

Once the tire is glued it'll be fine, so don't worry about it going out of balance then.

Also, once it's done and you use the car for a few minutes, double check each wheel. If it is going to separate now will be the time it usually does. You may have to touch some points up with glue. If it's done now, just after a fresh glue, it should be good for a long time.
-Andrew

JDT

01-09-2009, 07:57 AM

I was thinking all you df 02 guys had sheeped out and got b44s as this thread was dead, I pretty much don't hang out on this forum much at all since the df 02 forum died, guess I better check it more often. I have taken the df02 beyond and back, I think no matter what I will always have a df 02 around, of course it helps I have a pile of frames and parts trees bags, two whole cars, a mock up chassis, 2 bnip bodies and sticker kits lol.

timie1

01-09-2009, 02:05 PM

Good to see you back JDT.
I think it certainly helps that Tamiya have released a "new" DF02, The Plasma Edge. It's re-invigorated this thread :D

eylemkaan

01-09-2009, 02:28 PM

Haha, I've been looking over the Tamiyausa page... man what a line up of all different, new-release, innovatively named one after the other series of cars
.
.
.
with the same chassis

I have to admit, it is smart marketing!

mo679

01-09-2009, 03:41 PM

Hello everybody! :wave:

It's long time since I posted on this forum the last time and is nice to see it still alive!
I'm back to my rising storm df-02 since quite a lot and, at the moment, running a superstock rz, awesome motor by the way, my new esc supports up to 13t motors, can anyone suggest me a good 14t or 13t motor with good punch and power? I was looking at trinity speed gems, what do you think?

I know I should read trough the forum since this argument has been probably already discussed, but I would really appreciate if somebody could give me a hint!

thanks a lot

eylemkaan

01-09-2009, 03:50 PM

trinity is always solid, those guys know what they're doing.

timie1

01-09-2009, 04:24 PM

I used to use a Trinity 19t Chameleon 2 in my gravel hound. It was a quick motor, but I wouldn't recommend anything lower for the DF02. In fact I wouldn't recommend even the 19t brushed if you want speed and longevity.

To get it fast enough to please my need for speed, I had to gear it up. It did get quite hot.

The issue the DF02 has is that you can't gear it low enough to make a lower turn motor last. I had nothing but troubles with my 19t Trinity motor. The comm wore out so quick, and I had to rebuild it a few times before I gave up and bought a brushless. If you have a lathe and all the parts it's alright, but if you have to pay a shop to do it, it quickly adds up and it's cheaper to get brushless. Along with the terrible comm wearing out, I went through brushes like they were going out of fashion. With wearing brushes, and crap comms, I had the most annoying problem ever, hanging brushes. The ONLY motor I've ever had hanging brushes on is my Trinity motors.

At a push, I would definitely not go lower than a 17t motor if you want it to last and not die within a few runs. The caveat is nobody makes a decent 17t motor, so you could get a crap 17t motor or a faster decent 19t motor.

Of course, if speed isn't an issue with you, then a strong 27t motor will be at home in the DF02.

Ultimately, if you're going for speed, and you have to buy a new motor, you may as well get a brushless setup. It will be quicker, last forever just about, and be a lot more efficient. Some of the Asian Hobbywing/yeah racing/and every-other-chinese-name-brand ESC can be had for about $100 which include a good enough motor that would easily outperform a brushed motor.
Sell your ESC that you have now on ebay to pay for a good portion of the brushless setup. I'm thinking of doing that with some of my brushed ESC's. Anybody want a Futaba MC330? :D LOL