Tamiya Gravel Hound DF-02 Forum [Archive] - Page 17

P8ntballJunkee

04-23-2009, 02:16 PM

Well essentially I've got the stock setup as far as gearing. Stock silver can with 70 spur and 19 pinion. Run the dirt hawgs or stock tires depending on which track we're at. Haven't touched it since first putting it together other than to investigate clicking from the drivetrain that went away after putting it back together. I wish I had more time to experiment with gearing, tires, motor temps and so forth but it just never happens.

As far as the rear diff locker, I put it in there because I got tired of getting stuck with wheels spinning freely and the wheels touching the ground not moving at all. My track is pretty smooth and level but that is the exception. I could show you a picture and give you an idea if I knew how to post pictures. I'll look into that. I wish I had pictures of these other tracks we race at, very tight, maybe 2-3 wide at the most in some areas. Not always layed out very well, large rocks in the track that will flip cars over. Poorly constructed jumps that look more like speed bumps. M car runs great, hardly ever flips over but after crashing with lap traffic I end up high centered, a couple wheels off the ground and I'm out of the race. We are not allowed to touch our cars during the race so if it gets stuck...that's it. I don't have to tell you how frustrating it is to watch the slower cars drive by you for 2-3 minutes and win the race after they caused the crash that knocked you out. I had read that some guys had put the diff locker in the rear only and it seemed to help with this. I've heard about packing the diff with grease but also heard it wasn't truly "sealed" and didn't work so well. I haven't experimented and have only just installed the locker within the last week. Playing around my track it's definitely nice keeping power to the rear wheels at all times. No more free wheel spinning. I was able to get unstuck several times after purposefully getting stuck.

As far as shocks go I did purchase GPM's off ebay and they are much better. They have the stock oil they came with which I'd guess is maybe 50wt but I'm not sure. However I did have a shaft snap last race, not sure how that happened. Caught the right edge of the track...rebar sticking up(yeah..nice) flipped over and somehow broke the left shaft? Good luck finding replacement parts for it. I'm thinking maybe going with the duratrax evader shocks. I can find replacement parts for those evader shocks easy but the question is...are they any good. That I don't know. I've heard 70wt oil is the way to go. Time for a trip to the LHS to pick some up and try it out.

I should clarify about the tracks we race at. I suppose we should call it more of a destruction derby than an actual race. About 4-5 of us actually race and the other 10 plus give it full throttle and watch the parts fly. Given the quality of the tracks and the size, some are downright small it's not usually the fastest car that wins. It's the one that can avoid lap traffic and track hazards such as vertical rebar on the edge of the track. The first heat race to qualify for the main event, half of the field was either broken or flipped over before the few laps.

Thanks for the dean's clones links. That will definitely be much more within my current budget. That is all I can come up with for the moment. Thanks again for you insight.

timie1

04-24-2009, 06:48 PM

P8ntball, in the interest of making this thread more interesting to look at, I'll once again state how to post photos the easiest way. I said it a few pages back, but nevermind.

1 - Take your photo
2 - Use a photo editing program to resize it to no more than 1200x1200 and compress it so the file size is less than 302kb for a jpg. Crop the photo if you have to, so that the important bit fills as much of the 1200 pixel limit as possible.
3 - Come online and quick reply to a thread.
4 - Go to the "Go Advanced" button at the bottom of the page.
5 - In the new page that opens up, in the second red highlighted box, go to the "Manage Attachments" button. Click it.
6 - In the pop up window, you can then browse your computer for up to 6 photos. Find your resized ones and then press upload.
7 - The rest is pretty much self explanatory. Voila, you're done. Don't forget to use the preview post to make sure it's how you want it.

P8ntballJunkee

04-25-2009, 04:18 PM

Unfortunately I can't resize anything currently. Have the original photo editing program the computer shipped with and all the good features in the photo program have long since worked. Here's what the gravel hound looks like anyway. I've made a few upgrades as otherwise noted in prior post but essentially it's the same. I need to get a good photo editing program, I'll add that to the list.

timie1

04-25-2009, 07:40 PM

Arghhhhhhhhhhh, a Duratrax sticker on Tamiya, tututut, SACRILEGE :D LOL

What springs are you running on it? Are those the ones from the GPM shocks on a tamiya body?
I don't know what shock oil comes in the GPM shocks, nor what comes in the stock Tamiya. They have a different way of measuring their oil. Tamiya are "X" times thicker than water. So if you use Tamiya 700 oil, it's 700 times thicker than water. I wonder what country's water supply they use to measure? Hehehe. I'm sure some third world country has dirtier and therefore thicker water than other countries ;)
I don't know how the two ways of measuring compare, but when I went to the LHS, the guy there said that most rtr kits, or stuff supplied in the kit, is usually about 25wt. So that gives you some idea!
All I know is that the DF02 needs a lot thicker oil and softer springs so it doesn't feel like a Walmart toy and just bounce over everything.

P8ntballJunkee

04-25-2009, 11:15 PM

Here's a couple more just so you could see the duratrax sticker again. Yeah, sorry about that but at the time I thought it looked good and well...oh well. The previous pictures were from a month after I built the kit, maybe after the first race. It's the stock tamiya plastic shocks with the aftermarket springs made for them. The two new pictures I've included which were taken today(at extremely low resolution) show my current setup. GPM shocks with the only other metal upgrades I've added, aside from the main drive shaft that is. I'll just apologize ahead of time for any further "sacrilege." :D

timie1

04-26-2009, 12:56 AM

It's nice to see others' rides. Those wheels and tires do look a lot more manly.

If I could please offer some advice, get rid of those wires all bundled up. Cut and solder them shorter if you have to. Do what you can to clean it up. You'll get better radio reception and it'll be lighter. A big no no is bunching power wires with radio wires. The power wires cause interference, and that is very annoying, especially when running brushless. You don't want an uncontrollable missile. I'd bet that bundle would add about 100g in weight. Also, that could very well explain why your motor is running so hot. All those wires add (and create) a lot of resistance. Resistance is futile!!! It will make everything heat up more than it should.
Come to think of it, what are all those wires? I have a black TEU101 ESC like yours, and I don't know why you have that many wires.

timie1

04-26-2009, 01:19 AM

Ohh, Paintball, I just clicked.

You're running THOSE dirt hawgs. I thought you meant the buggy dirt hawgs, those are truck dirt hawgs. Dohhhh.

In that case, no, with that silver can motor you'll need to use lower gearing. You're going to have to use the 70 spur and the smallest pinion you can. Even then it will get hot and be slow. My friend used those tires on his hound with a stock silver can motor and even a 23 turn tamiya super stock. I'm afraid to say it, but nothing is going to make that run properly. The car just can't be geared low enough with those tires and that relatively gutless motor.

However, if you switch to the Trinity co27, it should improve somewhat. I haven't run a decent 27t motor with those tires so I can't really say how it'll go as far as heat.

I think you'll have to put on smaller tires, such as these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU13&P=ML
Those tires fit your stock Tamiya rims, but give a lot more ground clearance than stock. They aren't, however, the greatest offroad. These would be better http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDX75&P=ML
for offroad.

If you switch to brushless then you'll have a nice setup. Speed will be great and heat will not be so bad. Brushless just has so much torque it'll spin those wheels you have now with ease.

P8ntballJunkee

04-26-2009, 10:58 PM

I agree those wires are an absolute mess. I just kinda electrical taped it together a long time ago and have never addressed the issue. Mostly it's all the same wiring you have, just a lot more of it. I do have a y-harness due to the fact that we run with transponders and I only have a 2 channel am radio. I'd love to upgrade to something 2.4ghz with 3 channels so I don't need the y-harness anymore but you probably can guess why I haven't done that.
Which buggy tire/wheel combination do you run with yours? Could you post a link? I would like something maybe a little more buggy style vs. those huge beastly truck tires. I do like the style of the dirt hawgs and the durability. I would like something that will last more than a few races. Most of the tracks we run on are "very" loose dirt. They seem to hook up ok, but then again we've determined I'm no expert in any area of the Gravelhound. I'm glad I included a picture finally as that was able to explain things I was unable too...haha.
Maybe I need to purchase a new kit and start over. I seem to be quite lost...lol. But I am having a lot of fun regardless.

timie1

04-26-2009, 11:29 PM

I've never used a transponder so I don't know how they work. Do they need their own channel on the receiver? Why? I would have thought it wouldn't require to be plugged in to work, other than to get power. Which I guess explains it, hahah. I think I just answered my own question.

I've never owned any radio (for my cars) other than AM. I have an FM for the plane, but that's a moot point! I find AM sufficient for most things. You won't need to upgrade to 2.4ghz if you run a brushed motor. It would be nice to have the bling bling of all those flashing lights and lcd screens and 500000 model memory and all that, but if you ask me, that's a crock. To use the model memory of it, you have to buy a separte 2.4ghz receiver for each model. Most receivers are about $120. ALL of my 6 AM radios combined wouldn't even come to $120. Well maybe they would, but you see my point. I have been thinking of getting a cheap 2.4ghz for my brushless E-Maxx cos that does get some interference from time to time, but otherwise, every car I have works perfectly on AM with amazing range (and every car and boat I have now is brushless. The only brushed motor I run is in the plane. So, yeah.....those are my thoughts. For the price of one 2.4 RX, you could buy 2 complete sets of perfectly adequate (for me anyways) AM radios, with a whole bunch of crystals.

About the wheels I run, at the moment I'm running some chinese 2.2" rims with truck tires like yours, except mine are the Proline Dirt Works (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUM92&P=ML)
I think the best combination I ran was the stock rims in the kit with the Dirt Hawgs III (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU14&P=7) on the front, and these Dirt Hawgs I (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU13&P=7) on the rear. They were good because they last forever, and provide more ground clearance, and better top speed. And the car can be geared properly to run them. Also it was easier on the parts, like the driveline components - what with them not being so heavy. And, it looks more like a buggy should do. But they aren't the best offroad.

I don't have a lot of experience with any tires other than those. I do mainly road bashing so I don't buy fuzzy or spikey tires. If you run on very loose dirt, probably the kit supplied ones would be good. I would advise doing some research though to see what racers would use on loose dirt. Any 2.2" buggy tires will fit on the gravel hound dish wheels. You'll just need to glue them on.

Oh, if you want a RX that is 3 channel, the one from the 3905 Emaxx is a 4 channel AM 27mhz RX. It also has two channel 1 slots for two steering servos. It's a micro RX so it saves some space in the chassis. If you're interested, here is the link (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXTKL5) You could eliminate some of that mess of wires :D

Scottie

04-27-2009, 12:59 PM

Also there is this RX Here on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/WS-27Mhz-AM-2CH-RC-Car-Receiver-w-oCrystal-Free-Gift_W0QQitemZ350193694956QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFR_YO _Jeux_RadioComRobots_VehiculesRadiocommandes?hash= item350193694956&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50) I Just recieved one of this from this guy on ebay for $8.99 I think I payed and had it going this morning and it works good I Had a Traxxas Micro one and liked it but took a hard crash and it died on me.

Kahoko

04-27-2009, 07:56 PM

So I tried searching this forum for my answer because I'm pretty sure it's already been addressed, but my kung fu is not strong today. :(

I'm looking to raise the center line ride height on my wife's DF-02 Gravel Hound and I tried using some 100mm rear shocks but it results in some loud clicking sounds coming from the dog bones, when the rear arms are pushed all the way down. I was wondering if anybody else has had this issue and what you did to fix it. Or if anybody has any other thoughts on getting a bit more ground clearance other than getting bigger tires.

Track notes: Rough dirt track, 3 large jumps.

Kahoko

Kahoko

04-27-2009, 10:55 PM

As far as shocks go I did purchase GPM's off ebay and they are much better. They have the stock oil they came with which I'd guess is maybe 50wt but I'm not sure. However I did have a shaft snap last race, not sure how that happened. Caught the right edge of the track...rebar sticking up(yeah..nice) flipped over and somehow broke the left shaft? Good luck finding replacement parts for it.

I'd stay away from the GPM shocks. I've owned two sets of them and both of them have failed. One set had the shafts snap right by the thread area, and the other set the top caps to the damper cylinder popped off, threads were gone.

Kahoko

P8ntballJunkee

04-28-2009, 12:17 AM

Kahoko, I've had similar experiences with my GPM shocks as well. Sounds like mine snapped on the shaft in the exact same location as yours. I've also had the seal in the top fail causing all the shock oil to leak out. Fixed that with a little aluminum tape to cover the hole, but not really an ideal fix. I do have a second set but as those break I won't be buying more. I'll be looking to replace them with something easier to repair/find parts for. Looking to see if anyone has used the shocks that the duratrax evader uses. I'm not sure how far back but someone did post pictures of a modification using a fabricated metal piece to raise the mounting position for the shocks. If I remember correctly this did result in the clicking/binding of the dogbones which was fixed after purchasing CVD's.

Timie, I'm not sure why it never occured to me to look for a new receiver. I guess it makes sense...so thats why it never occured to me. That would clear up the need for the y-harness as my transponder would plug directly into the receiver. I'd like to upgrade to the 2.4ghz only because we do occasionally have interference at races if we stand too close together. With 15 plus cars in the scramble it can get a little sketchy. The interference has mostly cleared up as several people have purchased 2.4ghz systems. I have not had any issues to date with am and just can't justify spending $150-$200 on a new radio when the one I have works fine. I've seen the new $90 2 channel 2.4ghz system at Tower but that wouldn't fix my issue of needing a 3rd channel for my transponder.

timie1

04-28-2009, 01:21 AM

Kahoko, welcome to the forum. Back on page 156 of this forum, post # 3883, I posted some photos of an adaptor I made to give more ground clearance. I made a set for Forgetful Duck in this forum. A few posts down he replied with his report on them. I urge you to read them. If you want to make a set then you'll get the neccessary ground clearance. If you don't have the tools to make a set, then I can sell you some.
ForgetfulDuck hasn't been on this forum in a while, but I do talk to him in MSN so I can ask him to post again so you get an up to date opinion of them.

P8ntball - just be like me, sneaky!!!! Hehe. Tell everybody else in your family race that 2.4 would cure all their problems. They'll go out and buy a 2.4 system, then you'll be the only person left using AM. Voila!!!! No more interference and you wouldn't have spent a cent.

Kahoko

04-28-2009, 02:57 AM

Kahoko

04-28-2009, 02:58 AM

Kahoko, welcome to the forum. Back on page 156 of this forum, post # 3883, I posted some photos of an adaptor I made to give more ground clearance. I made a set for Forgetful Duck in this forum. A few posts down he replied with his report on them. I urge you to read them. If you want to make a set then you'll get the neccessary ground clearance. If you don't have the tools to make a set, then I can sell you some.
ForgetfulDuck hasn't been on this forum in a while, but I do talk to him in MSN so I can ask him to post again so you get an up to date opinion of them.

Cool. I'll check it out. I knew it was buried some where in here. :)

dino1985

04-28-2009, 03:37 AM

Hey guys I guess this right thread to show those Df 02 rides. And here is my contribution. As you see its got AM radio system its all you need. LRP AI-brushless ESC (I was thinking for putting a 13.5 BL motor back then), Integy 19 T and some nice 4 inch wheels I stole from a monster truck. So what do you guys reckon about my setup.

Actually 1 more thing, do you guys where I can get a compatible chasis for the DF 02. Not really after for a particular style just something fancy.

timie1

04-28-2009, 04:30 PM

Dino, I don't quite understand your question. Do you want a new body for your chassis, or do you want a new chassis?

So you're running a brushless ESC with a 19t brushed motor? May I ask why?

dino1985

04-28-2009, 05:46 PM

Dino, I don't quite understand your question. Do you want a new body for your chassis, or do you want a new chassis?

So you're running a brushless ESC with a 19t brushed motor? May I ask why?

Well I meant to say new body. (its not me who said that it was the 2 am version for me who wrote that). If it was a new chassis it wouldn't be appropriate to continue on discuss in this thread.

Well im just not sure about if a 13.5 turn BL would actually make a difference in terms of performance so i just plugged in a 19 turn motor instead.

timie1

04-28-2009, 06:36 PM

Yeah 13.5t brushless would make a difference in performance. Not only would it have gobs more torque that will power those wheels easier, but it'll be a lot cooler doing it. I bet that 19t motor of yours gets pretty hot? And, it would be nice to never have to do anything to the motor. Brushless is great. I won't ever be using brushed again. They say how brushed motors are comparable to XYZ turn brushless - well that's not really the case. There really is no comparison and I don't think it's fair comparing brushed and brushless. Apparently my 5700 motor is comparable to a really good 9 or 10t brushed in top speed. Maybe!! However, the brushless will get there without any effort or heat. The brushless can be geared a lot higher, so you'd end up getting a lot more top speed. Also, the brushless won't mind those big 4" tires you have, so 2 months down the road your brushless will still be hauling whereas your brushed will be running half the speed it was a month previous and in another month your motor will need major maintenance just to keep it alive. The brushless will maybe need a bearing re-oiling.
Seriously, if you've got the ESC, buy a cheap brushless motor off ebay to test it. You won't regret it.

dino1985

04-28-2009, 09:58 PM

timie1

04-28-2009, 10:43 PM

Close, I've got the Mamba Max 5700 combo.
I don't own anything HPI. Although there are some HPI things I wouldn't mind.

I actually run a Traxxas velineon 3500kv motor in my DF02 with 4" tires. Goes very nicely. You should pick up one of them as they are cheap enough on ebay. I paid US$40 shipped. A $40 brushed motor would be crap and certainly not perform anywhere near as well as the 3500kv motor. To get the same performance..........noo..... I don't think you could get the same performance in the DF02 with big wheels. Gearing options are too limited, so you just end up killing a brushed motor that spins fast enough to get decent speed.

Anyone that spends $40 nowadays on a brushed motor is just missing the point.

Here's a quick vid I did of my car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nTZzD_TO2c)
That is running the Velineon 3500 motor. The car isn't set up right because I've busted my 70t spur, so it's running on my 67 spur, which is munted to say the least, but it still works. I think it was quicker on the 70 spur. As you can see though, it goes fine considering the 4.1" tires I've got on it. Nothing gets hot with this setup, and I get about 20 minutes run time.

dino1985

04-28-2009, 11:42 PM

Speaking about castle creation ESC. I just wondering any body has been tempted to use a Mamba Monster BL system on the DF-02 chassis as of yet.

By the looks of things I should able to pick up a BL motor this weekend. :D

btw im still waiting for the castle link to arrive.

P8ntballJunkee

04-29-2009, 12:34 AM

Timie,
whats the story with these EZRun brushless setups. They seem to be quite popular here but I haven't heard of them. They also seem to be much more affordable than some of the brand name motors and esc's. If I could put together info showing a moderately cost effective way to go brushless I might be able to convince our league to go for it. Last week deans connectors weren't allowed, this week they are so who knows. Obviously it would have to be a unanimous decision. We're in our 4th year currently and most are still running the same stock motors so eventually something has to give. Something with "much less" maintenance would definitely be one of the best reasons to upgrade.

timie1

04-29-2009, 02:56 AM

Paintball,

These EZrun setups are, IMO, the best ESC on the market for someone wanting to keep costs down.

To start with, they are made by Hobbywing (http://www.hobbywing.com/english/). Hobbywing is the company that make quite a few name brand ESC's. They make a lot of LRP brushless esc's, the Speed Passion ones, some Venom ones, the Yeah Racing ones, and I'm pretty sure they make the new Tamiya ones here (http://cgi.ebay.com/TBLE-01-Brushless-ESC-TAMIYA-45038-1%2F10-Forward%2FReverse_W0QQitemZ220397792221QQcmdZViewI temQQimsxZ20090418?IMSfp=TL090418153003r12868).
Basically, Hobbywing make so many OEM esc's for popular companies. They know what they're doing and they make a lot of them, so I suppose that's why the prices are kept low.

This is the combo I would recommend http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=ezrun+35a+9t because it satisfies the need for speed, but it's not insane speed. A 4300kv motor is a good all-rounder. The Hobbywing 9t motor is a 4300kv.

There are a few things that you will need to be aware of though.

1 - Brushless motors require decent batteries. The batteries needn't be the latest and greatest, but they do have to be good condition nimh (or nicad) cells. For just bashing around, 3300mah nimh are fine. But if you try to race with those, and someone else uses lipo, then you're going to get whipped. In short, the speed will be determined primarily by your choice in battery.

2 - The EZrun esc's don't do brushed motors. So, unlike many other more expensive brushless ESC's, you will have to continue using brushless motors. That isn't a problem because once you use brushless, you won't want brushed.

Those are about the only negatives I can think of right now of owning an Ezrun. The list of "pro's" far outweighs the "con's". But I think I've said it all before and I can't be stuffed typing it all again:cool:

If you get the combo with the programming card then you can change so many parameters that you could only dream of with a brushed setup. Sure most things you'd set once and never touch, but things like punch control are great. I'm guessing not everybody in your racing league have the same level of skill, so being able to turn punch down is very handy. Running with maximum punch control means it'll make the acceleration far easier to control on loose surfaces or low grip concrete.

I don't know what else to say.
If you want ammo to take to the gestapo at your league, arm yourself with this list:

* Reliabilty - no motor maintenance. Noobs will enjoy running knowing that they won't have to do complicated motor maintenance every race meet.

* $$ per mph/kmh EZrun is your cheapest way to make it fun.

* Small, very small, EZrun esc's will fit in almost any chassis, so once again noobs won't be perplexed, confused, annoyed, and give up, trying to set their own car up. Things will just fit and therefore work!!

* Cheap cost of ownership. Buy once and that's it. If you buy brushed, it's a constant ongoing onslaught of expenses. Not to mention that a comparable brushed setup in terms of speed will cost considerably more up-front than an ezrun combo.

* More torque then you know what to do with. This allows the skill to be mastered in tuning and setup and driving. If there is gobs of torque, you can choose any gear ratio and tires you like (depending on the car).

Did I mention I own 3 EZrun ESC's?
I have the 35A, the 60A, and the 80A for my Emaxx. I originally only bought the 35A esc, but when I found out how good it was, I felt safe knowing I wasn't wasting more money - And let me tell you, I HATE crap and I research things so much before I buy. If something is garbage, I'll tell people. If you saw my rides, you'd see I like things to be just right. I like tidy fits. I don't like masses of unnecessary wires, and I like to keep my things clean and a factory look. So, considering how picky I am, owning 3 of one thing must be a testament to how great they are.

For 1/10 cars, the 35A is great. For a standard ESC for your league, I think the 35A would be the best. It's the cheapest, (on ebay for $45 shipped (they seem to be going up each month, it used to be $39 shipped)) and if you all got the same speed motor, then it'll keep it even and it'll come down to driving and car setup. That is when racing becomes fun.
If things are left with no restrictions, then people get faster motors, bigger batteries, and so on - all the fun is taken out as it then becomes a war between who has the bigger wallet.

Oh, and a tip............on ebay look for sellers that will accept offers. Some listings are auctions, while others are buy it now, and others are buy it now and "make best offer". Offer less I offered a lot less for a motor and they accepted. I was surprised because I offered $20 less then the shop in Hong Kong wanted. So, if you look around for the best deals with shipping, you can be surprised just how much things can be.

**EDIT
This is the exact ESC I bought, from this seller and for this price.......http://ecpower.com.hk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68&products_id=259

n4ynx

05-01-2009, 12:25 PM

Hi People,

I'm new to this forum but want to start by saying thanks to all of you as you have made me nget my df-02 out of the loft and buy a whole load of new parts.

Am also hoping someone could help me with a problem i have, i bought the vxl motor and mamba max esc, i finally put it in the car with the 67 spur and a 22t pinion, it all work great when i test it out on a block or holding it in the air but when i place it ont the ground the wheels dont move and all i can see is the pinion turning and the spur static. i tried a 19t pinon and still the same problem.

Anyone had this problem or have any tips as ive spent most of the day trying to fix to and had no luck, any help or tip would be great.

Thanks in advance.

Nayan.

Scottie

05-01-2009, 01:01 PM

Scottie

05-01-2009, 01:03 PM

n4ynx

05-01-2009, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the quick reply Scottie,

I mounted the motor on the hop up metal mount at 12 and 6 for the 22t pinion and 67 spur but the vxl has 4 holes on it so i chose the 2 holes with the wires facing upwards.

I just dont get why it runs when i hold it but not when i put it on the floor.

Nayan

timie1

05-01-2009, 03:02 PM

Like Scottie said, it's probably your battery.
What battery are you running? ie, make, mah, age, condition, # of cells, connector.

It shouldn't matter what holes you use on the motor, they are the same distance apart. They just have them on the motor so you can mount the motor at a different angle which is required for various chassis'.

What setting do you have the LVC set to in the Mamba Max? You could be drawing too much current when there is a load on the wheels, and the battery voltage drops too low, so the LVC kicks in and you go nowhere. So, this is basically a problem on the battery, but also incompatible LVC settings.
I'd recommend having the LVC off if you're running dubious nimh or nicad.

n4ynx

05-01-2009, 03:25 PM

Sorry forgot to metion that im actually running 4900Mah Trackpower Lipo's they are brand new out of the box and first full charge. when i pull the trigger ever so lightly and its off the ground it does go but when on the ground it trys to jerk forwards and then the pinion just spins wearing away the teeth on the spur and the spur doesn't move.

Sorry for asking but whats LVC? Is it Low Voltage Cut Off?

I haven't set anything up on the mamba max yet as the mamba manual says test it out before changeing settings on the computer. I know these a silly questions and i am sorry about them but i guess i should connect the mamba up to the pc and change some settings?

the conector is trx on the battery

timie1

05-01-2009, 03:53 PM

Ohhhhh, it sounds like a gear mesh problem.

I know what your problem is. On the VXL there are a few screws on each end holding the endbells on. Those screws stick out too far and don't let the motor sit properly in the mount/chassis.

Also, the shaft is quite long on the VXL and it rubs on the plastic part that holds the motor mount in the chassis.

You will probably have to file away some the plastic on the centre housing that the main driveshaft is in, well that plastic cover, like I've done. Without that plastic filed away, the motor doesn't slot down to where it should, and it will mean the pinion isn't meshing with the spur, which will cause your issues.

If that doesn't work, then file away the plastic on the cover where the motor shaft is. I've taken a photo of the bit, but it's on the underside of that where I've filed, I just couldn't be bothered taking it apart ;)

I've sort of drawn the shaft from the motor (the dashed line) and then shaded in light blue the bit you have to file away, just a few mm deep, so the shaft doesn't hit that plastic. MAKE SURE YOU DO THE INSIDE OF THAT PLASTIC COVER.

As long as you are using the 6 and 12 positions on your motor mount, and the spur is 67 with a 22 pinion, and the pinion grub screw is tight, then this should fix any meshing problems you have.

Good luck!!

- Andrew

n4ynx

05-01-2009, 04:04 PM

Ok Thanks a lot Andrew and Scottie,

I shall get the dremal out and fill away a few bits. and alsoset up the mamba setting and punch down.

that pinion gear screw gets on my nerves as well shall try and tighten it down as muchas possible, think i might need a new allen key.

Thanks for all the help. ill let you know how i get on.

Nayan

timie1

05-01-2009, 04:24 PM

I don't think you'll need to adjust anything on the mamba. You've got a good battery, so that is not your issue. If you adjust anything like punch control, it will probably only be to make it easier on the car and easier to control.
Just make sure you've got the esc set to auto lipo, or at least 3V/cell. I run my esc's at 3.4V per cell, so however many cells there is, just times 3.4V x 2, or whatever, and set the total pack voltage to that.

Other then that, you should be fine.

- Andrew

n4ynx

05-01-2009, 06:58 PM

Andrew tried everything you said. i filed the inside of the cover and everything and still the same problem you can see from one of the pics half the spur has been grinded a bit.

i still think you are correct about it being a gear meshing problem.
Do you think it sould be the size of my pinion? the one i've put on is a 48pitch. im thinking that my pinion is not close enough to my spur i.e. the teeth are just about touching eachother so when i pull the trigger it just makes it spin without catching the spur properly.

The mamba and vxl cost to much for me to give up on it, think ill have to put in the old 70t spur and 19t stock pinion and see what happens.

The mamba is now set to auto Lipo, it wasn't before.

So badly want to get this up an running, i bought some traxxas wheels with the anaconda tires and want to try them on them out.

Thanks for the advise.

Scottie

05-01-2009, 07:45 PM

the Tyamia pinions DF-02 uses is a .5 Pinion I bielive

Scottie

05-01-2009, 07:48 PM

I'd say you need to use the proper pitch Pinion .5 I think they call them my DF-02 and my DF-03 uses the same damn ones. Robinson racing makes some and tymiya does to.

Scottie

05-01-2009, 07:54 PM

I'd try it with the stock 19 T pinion that came with it make sure you use the proper angle in the motor mount to see if that works, I Looked for the pinion you need at Towers and RCmart but can't seem to fine them right now. Andrew will come by any minute and help you more and give you the proper names for the pinions.

n4ynx

05-01-2009, 08:04 PM

lol cheers scottie. had a feeling that was the problem funny thing is that i got the tamiya .4 22t pinion and saw that was to small when i put it on so went out and bought a 48pitch version i read on another forum.

I only going to read and take advise of this forum from now on. You guys are a really big help.

I'll have a look around for some .5 pinions and see what Andrew thinks.

n4ynx

05-01-2009, 08:30 PM

Also what is the correct way to connect the wires i've got them connected as:
VXL -----> MM
Blue -----> White
White ----> Red
Yellow ----> Black

timie1

05-01-2009, 09:40 PM

Hey, you've updated your profile. Now it says your in the UK. I thought you were :) (from a choice of certain words)

Dohhh, yeah Scottie is right about the pinion. I just presumed you were using the correct pinion. The DF02 is a pain in the you know what because it uses Tamiya's own pitch. The more common term is metric 48p. It's different to SAE 48p. This is the range you'll need, http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPR60&P=7
It's actually 0.6 module, not 0.5, but Scottie knew what he meant!!!

You've ruled out everything else, so THAT will definitely be your problem. Guaranteed!!!!!

It doesn't matter one iota about what wires go to what. Just hook them up any way. Calibrate your ESC to your radio. Give it throttle and if it goes in reverse when it should be going forward, reverse any two of the wires to the motor. It doesn't matter which two. Voila, just like magic!!!!

Now everything should be ready to play.

Those Anaconda tyres are..........alright :D I've had them, but they tend to wear out quickly. Make hay while the sun shines. In other words, enjoy them while they still have some tread on them, once that tread wears they are not very great.

- Andrew

n4ynx

05-02-2009, 03:44 AM

Dont tell me it was the silly questions, choice of words and the fact that i didnt give out all the info in the say post that you knew i was from the uk..lol..:cool:

ok so looks like i'll have to pay the $40 for shipping again from tower but atleast it will work.

I'm going to try the stock spur and pinion just to make sure there is nothing else going wrong.

timie1

05-02-2009, 04:12 AM

You should be able to get them in the UK. They are a normal Tamiya pinion. Any LHS that stocks Tamiya should be able to get one in for you.

Oh, and the word Loft gave it away :) I watch so many shows from the UK and I have lots of english friends, so ...........yeah!!!

n4ynx

05-02-2009, 04:42 AM

You know what i just had a look at the packet that my pinion came in and its a Robinson Racing Products RRP-1022 48P 22T. I'm assuming the towwer hobbies link is the same pinion or am i assuming wrong.

EDIT:::
I just looked at the robinson racing website my assumtion was wrong they do 2 types of 48pitch i need the RRP-1122. People always do sayy never assume anything as it makes an A** out of U and ME...lol...
now have to wait till my LHS opens and see if they got the correct one in stock.

timie1

05-02-2009, 01:27 PM

P8ntballJunkee

05-04-2009, 12:51 AM

Oh no...so here we go again. After another dissapointing Saturday of racing, in the rain I might add, I've decided I really need to spend some time just....driving. It was an extremely tough day for me mostly because I spent most of my time on my roof, tough to win that way. Although I did manage to secure 5th place upside down in the middle of the track.

Update note: After installing the rear diff locker and thinking this might be some great thing....I'm not thinking it to be the greatest anymore. Ran all day and didn't break a thing which was amazing. However I just noticed that both rear dogbones have a slight bend in them. It's a pretty obvious bend and I suspect the rear diff locker is to blame. I believe I'll try the "really thick" grease idea or maybe a ball diff. Considering I've never bent one before....I'm guessing it to be the culprit.

Lastly...I'm looking for advice for mounting a new body. What I did notice during the races was multiple cars flipping over. I mean, everyone was flipping over. It's impossible not to flip your car at this track. However I noticed most of the guys that were hit(by other cars, we don't allow track marshall's to turn over cars) and flipped back over were running with very rounded top bodies. Essentially anything would be better than the stock gravel hound body for a chance to flip back over. So....I need help/advice on where/what to use to mount a body such as this....

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXTDA7&P=7

I realize it is "huge" but others do run similar sized bodies on the same chassis, give or take a few inches. I'd be using it when I run my large 2.2 dirt hawg truck (thanks for that clarification timie :D) tires so clearance shouldn't be an issue. I'm not looking for blazing fast speed, low profile aerodynamics. I'm looking to make my car unstable when it flips onto it's top so that another car on the track will hit it and flip it back over to it's wheels. That's all I have for now, thanks for reading this long #$@# post.

timie1

05-05-2009, 02:36 AM

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I do believe that Ford truck body will swim on the Gravel Hound. Do you realise just how big an Emaxx is?

A while back, Kaan on this forum got a VW Beetle body to fit. It looked the part, and well.........you know how round an original Bug body is. That should roll over again quite easily. Just scroll back through the pages and you'll find it.
Another common alternative is to use stadium truck body, like the one for an RC10T4, such as this http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFNF6&P=7
JDT on this forum and Steve on this forum have them on their cars. They look the part too, and provide a lot more clearance under the body for wires and electrics and heatsinks and fans.

The bend you are talking about in the rear dogbones, is it a bend or a twist?
If they are twisting, then it's common. Mine twisted under brushed 19t power. I imagine they'll twist under any brushless motor very easily.
I upgraded to some GPM alloy bones on the rear. Considering they are a cheap chinese thing, they are holding up far better then the stock steel Tamiya ones. They have just a slight twist in them, (nothing as bad as the Tamiya ones), but I am running so much more power now, so I'd have thought they would have been worse, but they aren't.
If you buy new dogbones, I'd recommend getting a set of CVD's for the front, and stick to dogbones on the rear (unless money is of no object to you :D) Anyway, I don't think the twist will do any harm in the bones, so long as it doesn't just snap one day.

How come you don't allow the marshals to flip the car back over? What else does the marshal do?

n4ynx

05-05-2009, 05:25 AM

These are the Tamiya ones that work.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGJ70&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGJ69&P=7

And the link below will take you to the list of all the Robinson Racing ones that work
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=&FVSEARCH=Robinson+Racing+Metric+Pinions&search=Go

The part numbers are listed in the top right corner of the Tower Hobbies website.
Yep, the actual part number you want is 1122.

If you can, buy the Robinson Racing ones, I find them to be longer lasting. A bit heavier, but more robust!

Thanks guys i put the stock spur and pinion in and it works fine, the motor is a lot more powerfull then the tamiya sport tuned one i had in but all good.

Unfortunatly all my LHS dont stock that pinion so looks like our old friend towerhobbies will do the business.

Scottie

05-05-2009, 09:18 AM

Thanks guys i put the stock spur and pinion in and it works fine, the motor is a lot more powerfull then the tamiya sport tuned one i had in but all good.

Unfortunatly all my LHS dont stock that pinion so looks like our old friend towerhobbies will do the business.

I Know here in Canada some time the Local Hobby Shops can get parts in faster and cheaper then towers.

P8ntballJunkee

05-06-2009, 12:46 AM

Timie, thanks for the reply. I kinda had a feeling that body would be way too large but I'm looking for something more along that size. If it was an inch or so smaller I think it'd be perfect. Really I need help with rigging body posts for mounting the body. It's hard to grasp what to order and what will work unless I can hold it in my hand.

We actually don't have track marshals at all. No one is allowed to step onto the track and if you do, such as to pick up an overturned car, you are DQ'd. The very last race of the day I flipped over 1 lap into the race so I just picked my car up rather than letting it get beat up further.

As far as the dogbone goes I'll have to take a closer look at it tomorrow. Initially it appears that it's a bend but it may be a twist.

Maybe this body will fit a little better, and maybe if it's a little smaller I can run it with both of my tire combinations.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWRK3&P=7

timie1

05-06-2009, 02:57 AM

Paintball, to be honest, I don't know what bodies you could fit on. You're going to have to hope that somebody else on this forum can definitively help you with what will fit and what won't. I'm still on my original body that came in my kit, and it's the Gravel Hound body. I have no desire to put more money into my DF02. Kinda sad, but.....other vehicles get my dollar now.

I gotta admit, that's a very weird rule that the only way to right a car is to let somebody hit it and hope that it rights itself. If I were you, I'd be pushing the lawmakers at your races to get a wife, or a kid, or somebody who just sits there to look pretty, to get involved and run around turning the cars over. Here's an idea, get the prettiest female to run around flipping the cars over. Every guy will be falling over themselves (excuse the pun) to flip their cars just to watch her run over to the car, bend over and make it right :eek: heheh

timie1

05-06-2009, 03:12 AM

N4YNX, have you ever bought from here (http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-motor-geartamiya-pitch-tamiya-pinion-gear-50357-p-7522.html)?
Lots of us in this forum have, and they are good to deal with. They are much quicker than Towers. Things from Towers take a good few weeks to travel from USA to Canada - maybe 1000 miles. Stuff from Hong Kong travel WAY further, yet they arrive much quicker - quite often about 8 days. I'm sure if you bought from Towers you'll be waiting a month or more, and then probably pay duty. If I were you I'd buy from Hong Kong or China and most likely avoid paying extra duty. They are cheaper and quicker, and genuine tamiya parts are the same whether they're from Hong Kong, Japan, USA, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, or for make benefit of glorious nation Kazahkstan - It's a very nice!!

dino1985

05-07-2009, 05:43 AM

I'd say you need to use the proper pitch Pinion .5 I think they call them my DF-02 and my DF-03 uses the same damn ones. Robinson racing makes some and tymiya does to.

I thought tamiya pinions pinch are 0.6 metric

dino1985

05-07-2009, 05:46 AM

Guest what timie1 I got myself brushless motor for my DF02 and I have never realised a 13.5 T BL would be much faster than my previous 19T. Right now the gear ratio is sitting around 9.6:1. Maybe its time to use that 67 T spur gear again.

timie1

05-07-2009, 02:18 PM

Steve at Danfor

05-17-2009, 03:49 PM

Hi Andrew - I finally have been running my GH up at the parking lot of our cottage - It's a pretty good size area with nice small gravel and packed sand. Man - Does the Hound go good on that surface or what! Very Pleased! I will get my wife to grab some video to show you guys. Steve up North of Ottawa

timie1

05-18-2009, 03:13 AM

Hi Steve: I'm glad your happy with it. The VXL motor seems to be a good setup in the hound. I find that it's brakes are very strong, a lot stronger than other brushless motors. I run 25% brakes using the VXL motor and it's got amazing stopping power, but not overwhelming. If I use that same 25% on my 4300kv motor, it's got virtually no brakes. So I have to up the setting (on the ezrun) to 75%. It's interesting!!!!

Speaking of VXL motors - I had to go for a swim to fetch my boat I had taken out the other day. The lake was infested with geese and all their droppings. Stupid thing. I'm rapidly losing interest in my boat. The VXL motor goes alright in it, but the hull can't really handle it as it's taking on water because the blasted trim tabs are junk how they attach to the hull, and now that it died on me and I had to go out to get it, I am not impressed. Having to dodge geese, and then drive back home with soaking wet goose-water clothes, whatever shine was there for me and boats, has now diminished into a dark cloud of disdain.

Anyway, all hail the invention of dry land and the wheel:winner:

EDIT - have you seen my latest crop of movies on youtube? This is the latest gravel hound movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nTZzD_TO2c
Also check out my other ones. I'm proud of the e-maxx ones, especially the one that's rated 5 stars.
I'd be eternally grateful if you'd rate my movies and comment. I look forward to seeing the footage of your hound running.

Steve at Danfor

05-18-2009, 07:28 AM

They look great Andrew - (Your videos) - I can see your point with the boat Man - I hope to post one next week - Steve

Scottie

05-18-2009, 12:58 PM

anyone know through ebay or another good source that is cheap to ship to Canada for a 3S Lipo battery for my car? If you see anyone you know if good on ebay and is cheap please post a link, thanks. !!

g_man

05-19-2009, 07:20 AM

anyone know through ebay or another good source that is cheap to ship to Canada for a 3S Lipo battery for my car? ...

You could stand in line for one of these:

ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 3S1P 20C
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8579

$43.26 + p&p

g_man

05-19-2009, 07:38 AM

People have tried various ways of putting 48 pitch spurs in the Hound before, but I haven't heard many success stories.

I just thought I'd post my method involving a HPI Pro4 spur gear adapter (#75104). The catch is that you have to drill a 2mm hole through the adapter hub for the drive pin (see drawing). The spur then slides over the pin, holding it in place. This is untested (hope to go for a bash this weekend).

With a 48 pitch spur, you can gear it 78/23 if you use the standard motor mount position furthest from the spur. For me, this ratio is perfect for 4" Dirt Hawg tires with 3500kv motor on 2S.

Here's a drawing showing how it's done:
http://tne.net.au/~abg/df02_48pitch_spur_assy.pdf

http://tne.net.au/~abg/df02_48p_1.jpg

http://tne.net.au/~abg/df02_48p_2.jpg

Scottie

05-19-2009, 11:33 AM

You could stand in line for one of these:

ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 3S1P 20C
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8579

$43.26 + p&p

I Bought this one because it was so cheap http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370178258710 I Know you get what you pay for but I don't realy care about run times I just want it to be faster then my 2S Lipo. What do you think of it?

timie1

05-19-2009, 04:27 PM

G_man - that looks like a great idea. Let us know how it goes, and also if you could get a video that would be great!!
I'm just curious, why did you convert it to 48p? You could have got much the same gear ratio using tamiya metric pitch using 67/20.

g_man

05-19-2009, 07:11 PM

I'm just curious, why did you convert it to 48p? You could have got much the same gear ratio using tamiya metric pitch using 67/20.

I used to run exactly that ratio!! (67/20) I've blown a few Tamiya spurs - sometimes I break teeth, other times I stretch the drive pin slot in the Tamiya spur because it can't handle the torque. This is why I want to use a stronger mounting arrangement, and most imperial spurs are better quality and I'm sure are made of stronger materials, eg. Robinson Racing RRP 1878 & 1978.

We've been meaning to make some videos so if we do I'll link to them!

g_man

05-19-2009, 10:47 PM

I Bought this one because it was so cheap http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370178258710 ...

That's very cheap! Though at only 55A continuous rating it's really only suited to powering an entry-level brushless motor/esc. You have an ezrun 35A right? Should be ok with that.

Higher current rated batteries are able to maintain their voltage better under load, so you go faster. That's why I like the Zippies.

timie1

05-20-2009, 01:00 AM

You do bring up a good point G_man. When I had my tamiya TA05, it was originally tamiya metric pitch. I got tired of not having the right pinion in metric, so I bought an imperial 48p spur - thankfully it bolted right on. I have so many 48p pinions, that I could then get any ratio I wanted. So that's why I changed - however, the cherry on the top was that the 48p were much quieter with all other factors being equal. And the teeth are smaller, so the diameter is smaller (that was important on the TA05 - maybe not so much on the DF02).

Also you're right, the 48p seem to be better quality. For the pinions in 48p, Losi pinions are really nice. They are the quietest!! RRP ones are good, but the RRP hard aluminium black ones are so sweet. They cost more, but boy are they nice. Very light and durable (way better than Tamiya pinions) and oh so quiet.

g_man

05-20-2009, 07:01 AM

For lovers of monster tires there's another advantage in going with 48P: You can squeeze in lower ratios than is possible with the standard gears.

The lowest ratio with Tamiya 0.6 module (metric) gears is 16/70, but with 48P you can theoretically get 14/84. This is also very handy if you're trying to properly gear a fast motor in the DF-02 without having to shell out for a slower 3500kv motor like I did.

As for pinions, I hear you timie1 - the Tamiya soft aluminium ones are hopeless. I ran an RRP 1120 steel alloy pinion with the Tamiya 67T spur which was great, although it would have been better if it wasn't significantly narrower than the spur.

EDIT: I think some 32P spurs can be used in this same way... What for? Because you can get 32P pinions for 5mm motor shafts. This blows open the possibilities for putting WAYYY more power into the DF02 than it can safely handle! ;)

timie1

05-22-2009, 07:16 PM

Who on this forum have speed tested their cars?
I mean, actual verified speed tests, not the theoretical speed by inputting data in a calculator.

If you have done it, I think it would beneficial to others to post their setup they were running at the time, and of course list the speed/temps/and any other "issues" you may have had.

It would be interesting, if nothing else.

I'll start off:

DF02 (obviously)
Proline Dirt Works 4.1" tires
EZrun 60A ESC
Traxxas Velineon VXL 3500kv motor
Gearing 19/67
AM 27mhz radio
2S lipo
Top speed GPS verified was 63.4km/h
Runtime was good. Total distance travelled was 5.06km on a charge.
Heat was minimal.

YOUR TURN!!!

Scottie

05-23-2009, 09:21 AM

DF-03
Ezrun 35A 9 T motor
2S Lipo
Stock Everything
46 Kms
Used GPS

Scottie

05-26-2009, 06:16 PM

wow no ones posted for awhile in here?

g_man

05-26-2009, 08:59 PM

Maybe because there's nothing to report :)

I have a Garmin eTrex Venture GPS that I'm going to strap to my Hound this weekend to see what the max speed is. It will be very interesting because it SHOULD be about the same as timie's. I have slightly less gear reduction (23/78 vs 19/67) but he's got slightly taller tires (4.1" vs 4.0")... It will also depend on how the tires 'balloon' out at speed. I'm not sure how much impact the different brushless ESCs and 2S lipos will have.

I only went for a burn up & down the street outside my house last weekend (the guy I go bashing with was sick), but the 48P spur seems to be working well so far!

timie1

05-27-2009, 12:13 AM

It get's sad when I log onto the forum and see that the Kyosho ZX-5 thread is the only "Electric Offroad" forum with a new post. It will take a while to catch up to the post count of this forum, but still - maybe it's a sign of the times. Are owners of DF02 dying off? Or are they not using their cars anymore, therefore nothing to report?
I know me personally am getting bored with my DF02 so I can see this happening. I've even been tempted to sell my DF02 and get something else. This is why it's sad when I see that Kyosho thread is the only one lately that's getting some action.

Anywho, g_man, when I input all my data in the speed calculator, the estimated speed was 58km/h or something like that. Tire ballooning is such a complicated science, it doesn't take much in extra ballooning to add quite a lot in top speed. I estimated an extra half inch in ballooning and the top speed difference was amazing.
Unless you can eliminate all ballooning, I don't think you'll ever get it accurate. GPS it!!!!!!! It's the only way.

My only complaint with a GPS on it is the added weight. Now, you may think the few hundred grams of a gps is negligible, and not really effect top speed, only acceleration; well to prove my point of added drag and weight, try taking off the rear wing and see how much faster your top speed is. Basically it weighs nothing, but the extra resistance and downforce/drag of the wing cuts about 3-4km/h off the top speed.
I imagine that the weight of a GPS would slow it down more than the gain you get by removing the rear wing.
Unfortunately I don't have a radar gun to test it without ANY added weight. I have a relative who's a traffic cop, who MAY be able to have some fun and radar it for me, but they live on the other side of the country so that ain't gonna happen :(

g_man

05-27-2009, 04:56 AM

Yeah the Hound is dated and isn't that strong. The thing is, there still doesn't seem to be many rivals!!

If you want a 1/10 shaft driven 4wd buggy that has space for a huge battery pack, can be made to handle brushless motors, that has a SEALED spur gear and parts are readily available for (and cheap), then there aren't many options that I'm aware of.

There's the HPI Brama 10B & the more serious Cyber 10B, but I think parts would be a hassle to come by, and the Hound has more battery room than the Cyber10B. The Academy SB V2 is nice, but *** is with the open spur? That would last 2 minutes where we bash the Hounds ;)

Seriously, there's nothing out there I've seen that has the Hound's 'qualities'. Please let me know if you know of one!

I'm going to get flamed for this, but for bashing I think the Hound beats the DF03. If anyone disagrees, I have my list of reasons why handy.

EDIT: As for speed testing - it's just an idea, but maybe you can find a nice quiet stretch of road & have a friend drive beside the DF02 with you in a real car. Take the GPS in the real car and you'll have the magic number when you've matched speeds. Just don't cross paths! ;)

timie1

05-27-2009, 01:11 PM

I don't disagree nor agree about the DF03 compared to the DF02 for bashing. I would consider getting a DF03 if I ever got rid of my DF02, so I'd like to hear your list of reasons :)

Scottie

05-27-2009, 01:25 PM

I Have both DF-02 and DF-03, I like them both the DF-02 I put through hell Its broke now but if I knew how to fix it easy I would, The DF-03 doesn't have much room in it for bigger battery or ESC and RX.

8balloogie

05-27-2009, 02:10 PM

great site

Scottie

05-27-2009, 03:36 PM

Also I don`t like how in the DF-03 is the shaft is exposed so I find myself my battery wire sometimes rubs on it, might not be a problem for most of you people but me not being the best with RC cars I Haven`t found a good way to keep them from rubbing, Both I find the stock shocks are crap but not a huge deal. The DF-02 seems to not have as much clearance as the df-03 .

g_man

05-27-2009, 05:56 PM

I would consider getting a DF03 if I ever got rid of my DF02, so I'd like to hear your list of reasons :)

Ok here are some quick ones coz I gotta go to work. Scottie has already mentioned a couple of them.

DF03 battery compartment:
It's the right size for a stick pack, but nothing more. You're stuck with LiPos that are the same size as a 6-cell stick pack. The battery is almost completely surrounded by plastic so it's also poorly ventilated.

DF03 motor mounting:
Again - quite enclosed. Forget about clipping on a heatsink around the motor body. The motor mounts to an aluminium plate which redeems itself a little, but still there's very limited options for additional motor cooling.

DF03 spur gear cover:
Lets in more dirt than a busted pair of sneakers.

DF03 rear diff cover:
Again, heaps of dirt gets into the rear diff - poor design.

DF03 transmission:
So many gears are involved. No gear stage is 100% efficient, so the more gears there are, the more transmission loss you have. This also means there's more to go wrong... And it does. The spur gear shaft has a soft metal gear on the end that wears quite quickly, then proceeds to chew the nylon gear that it drives if you don't keep an eye on it. The exposed drive shaft is a pain in the rear - you need to be careful routing your cables. For bashing, IMO the Hound's gear diffs are better because you don't need to think about them. For noobs the DF03 ball diffs are a smoking nylon accident waiting to happen.

They're my main gripes. I really appreciate the Hound's drivetrain simplicity, battery space and ventilation options for both motor & battery.

Scottie - yes, the Hound has less clearance than the DF03 when stock, but if you fit aftermarket shocks to the Hound like the GPM ones, you'll be right up there. A nice set of 2 x 2.2" wheels & 4" truck tires will also help ;)

timie1

05-28-2009, 02:53 AM

My main gripes with the DF03 are basically what you said, but also the fact that to bring it up to the spec of other brands, such as Team Associated, you need to spend about USD$70 on GOOD Tamiya shocks, another USD$43 for a slipper and various other upgrades to beef up things, like the dreaded ball diffs. Associated diffs are tough, mine stands up nicely to my Mamba Max better than the Tamiya ball diffs I've had.
So, after spending at least $110 + shipping, you're left with a car you HOPE is as good as an Associated. By that time, you've spent as much as it would have been to buy a B44 - and I can guarantee the B44 will be better without the so-called upgrades for the Tamiya. Afterall, the B44 chassis allows cooling for the motor, better battery placement, amazing suspension geometry, and ..............yeah yeah, you get my argument ;)

However, all that aside, I've seen various videos of the DF03 running, and it appears to be a million times better handling wise than the DF02. And it looks really nice too.

g_man

05-28-2009, 04:10 AM

I agree that if you're racing/competing, then the DF03 would be the way to go because better handling is valuable in that situation.

The guy I bash with was so proud of his DF03 in the beginning. He thought it was way superior to my Hound (under different circumstances it may have been). Then time after time he'd be in the pits watching me pop wheelies and having a great time. In the end he ended up getting a Hound too, and the DF03 got shelved! :D

Has anyone put a wheelie bar on their Hound? If so how did you go about it? Also, has anyone tried using rubber boots on their CVD/Universal shafts to keep the grease in & dirt out? I have to strip down & clean my universals after every session (because I want them to last).

As for the Associated B44, again W_T_F is with the open spur gear? I think that's insane on an OFF ROAD buggy :confused:. What, to B44 owners run those things on carpet?

Scottie

05-28-2009, 08:27 PM

Hey andrew my 3S lipo came today, I rewired the fan over two things and it works fine only used it for like 2 minutes the battery was almost dead when I got it and it was raining out but seems alright. not as fast as I thought it would be but it was only a $25 battery too. It fit good to alittle bit fatter then the 2S but shorter and less width.

Scottie

05-28-2009, 08:29 PM

you know why I like my DF-03 alot better then the DF-02 only because I paid about 1/2 for the DF-03 and it came with ball bearing already I go the kit for $99 CND the DF-02 cost me $250 that was RTR but everthing Radio RX BAtetry where all ****** so not worth it if I knew more about rc cars then.

timie1

05-28-2009, 10:55 PM

Thats good Scott. It may speed up after you charge the battery.
Did the battery get warm?

Scottie

05-29-2009, 08:25 AM

Thats good Scott. It may speed up after you charge the battery.
Did the battery get warm?

I don't think so but I only got to run it for like 1 minute or something.

Scottie

05-29-2009, 02:19 PM

Something let go in my DF-02 today after running for about 3 minutes with my 3S lipo the back wheels now turn freely and the front wheels still work fine, do you know what went on it so I can fix it?

g_man

05-30-2009, 02:18 AM

Scottie

05-30-2009, 08:29 AM

Scottie - first of all, you didn't happen to lose a rear dogbone or drive cup did you?

If the front wheels turn, but the rear drive cups don't, then there's something seriously wrong with the rear diff. If you can't see anything wrong when you remove the rear diff cover, then have a look inside the diff case itself.

ok the dog bones and cups are still there, yeah I think something seriously wrong too I think the 3S lipo was just to much for the DF-03.

P8ntballJunkee

06-06-2009, 02:17 PM

Well it's been quite awhile since my last post. Life does get a little hectic now and then. I'll start where I left off. Timie, the dogbones I thought were bent are definitely twisted, not really a bend. I have to believe because the same thing happened to my Dad's car that it has to do with the diff locker I put in. Great idea in theory but it seems only in that. I think if you ran the car only on the street and not bashing it around a "very" rough track it might be ok. Both of us severely twisted our rear dogbones only. Fronts were both just fine. So I'll be removing it and just deal with the wheelspin/no traction issues rather than break other more difficult parts to replace. Speaking of that I'd like to have spare drivecups(both to the gear diff and to the wheel) should one break. Have seen them on ebay occasionally, know of better places to find them?

Still searching for ideas for mounting a truck style body on the car. I'd like to mount it in two places front and rear instead of just the stock setup. It's too hard to picture what I'm actually buying from a website picture. I'll be finallly...taking a trip to my LHS to check out what they have. Hopefully that'll give me a better picture of what will work.

JLo

06-23-2009, 08:10 PM

Hi, I'm new here so I apologise if my question has been asked already (I searched through about 50 pages but couldn't find my exact question).

I have a GH with:
Tamiya Sport-tuned 540 motor
alloy drive shaft
full BB
eBay heat-sink
50wt shock oil in std shocks

Apart from those things it is completely stock (including the Tamiya speed controller that comes with the kit).

The stock pin tyres are completely bald now so I went to my LHS and bought some Dirt Hawg I tyres for the front, and the Dirt Hawg III for the rear.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU14&P=7

I haven't touched the gearing so my question is: will my car overheat because the Dirt Hawgs are larger than the stock pin tyres?

timie1

06-24-2009, 02:34 AM

Hi JLo (any relation to THE J Lo? ;)) and welcome to the forum. It's been a long time since the last post, so it's good to see that people are still interested in the GH.

Your setup should be fine with those tyres and gearing. I've run 22 pinion and 67 spur with those tyres and it coped fine.
What battery are you running though? That will have some bearing as to how much heat you'll end up with in the motor. A good powerful battery will make it (the motor and ESC) heat up more, but a junk battery will keep the motor and esc cooler while the battery will get hot.

Oh yeah, what country are you in? I noticed you spelt things the correct way, so I'm curious where you are!!

JLo

06-24-2009, 03:04 AM

Thanks for the reply Timie1.
I noticed that there haven't been many posts in this thread in the last few months so I was wondering if I would get a reply or not.

I'm using a Venom 3800 battery (I think). I bought it probably 18 months ago and the sticker came off so I can't remember exactly.

I'll update my details with location, etc. I'm from Melbourne, Australia.
Representing the DF02 downunder.

I'll try and get some pics to upload of my GH

timie1

06-24-2009, 04:09 AM

Ahhh, Melbourne. I've been there. I stayed in a hostel not far from where the F1 race is. Nice area of town. I was there in January 05, and it was cold for a few of the days, almost like Canadian weather. Then it heated up to typical aus weather, mid 30's :)
I thought you were either in England or downunder, either NZ or Australia.

That battery should be fine for that motor.
Yeah, get some pics, or movies. Oh and if you haven't already, changing your battery connectors to deans will make a difference with the larger tyres and higher amp draw.

g_man

07-13-2009, 01:27 AM

Hi All, Just thought I'd do my bit to keep this thread alive with some pics from this weekend's bashing with my Brother-in-law.

The local bike track with some fresh scars:
88531

When you take the big jumps & keep bottoming out your suspension as your car slaps back down to earth, your rear shock tower takes a lot of impact. This is the second time I've busted my rear diff cover (shock tower mount). I'm gonna have to reinforce it somehow:
88532

Both cars are powered by Velineon motors & MM ESC's & 2S LiPos. Mine (the unpainted one) has my previously described 48P spur mod which gave me no hassles at all :)

timie1

07-13-2009, 02:16 AM

Wow, that looks like the Delorean time machine in Back to the Future when it got it's hover conversion and wheels pivot like that ready to take off vertically.

You need flames coming out of the hub of the wheels to give it that wow factor :D

Nice to see somebody is keeping this thread alive. I haven't used my DF02 about 2 months - so I'm guilty of not keeping it alive.

Forgetful_Duck

07-13-2009, 02:02 PM

Hey G_man, im in Adelaide as well.
Which park u drive at? me and my friend smostly at the City Pultney Street Track.

I also have a DF02, Shelved now ever since i got the DF03. But when i did runt he 02, loved it. I even got Timie1's suspension geometry mod upgrade for the car, My 02 would take all sorts of rolls, flips, star rolls u name it, and come out unscathed. The only thing that broke it was a head on collision into solid objects cracking the Chassis where the front U pins run through to hold the suspension arms.
I used to have Aluminium shock towers as well, but found the plastic ones are much better for bashing.... the ALU ones just didnt hold up, the screw threads in the shock holes would just all strip out.

But yeh i run the Df03MS now, fully beefed up. Once armoured up, its again pretty much unbreakable unless u run into a pole at 60km/h.
As a DF02 owner as well, i have to say the 03 is sooo much better. Maintenance issues, if you build it right, and do regular checking it would be fine. The main alloy gear is replaceable for $8.... Every single part of the df03 drive train is replaceable, you can find them scattered about in online shops if u know where to look. If you have the cash, fork out for the MS kit, beef it up with another $70 USD or so, then you are set. My rear spurr cover has the tinniets of gap, hasnt let any pebbles in... dust sure, but that doesnt damage the spur or pinion. My spurr has zero wear on it.... 3 months now.

The handling difference betweent he 02 and 03 is like day and night.. Jumping control, suspension, options like center or front one ways, the lot.

End of the day, stickign to the 02 isnt bad either. Its one hell of a beater.
I think the aftermarket 3racing prebuilt Ball diffs for the tt01, also fit the DF02. I saw a 02 on sale on ebay that had both front and rear tt01 ball diffs. So if the geared ones wear out...(long time...)

JLo

07-13-2009, 08:01 PM

Here is my RS after a bash.
It took ages to clean all the dried mud off.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8104/img5381h.th.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5381h.jpg)

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9963/img5388.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5388.jpg)

I bought some Dirt Hawgs to replace the bald Tamiya pin tyres.
(I also noticed that I broke the front shock tower while taking this pic)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3829/img5431.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5431.jpg)

Forgetful_Duck

07-14-2009, 12:26 AM

A dirty Car means u've had plenty of fun. Its good.

how come you not usign a rear wing?
Old one broke? My RS wing just ripped apart like brand new.
personally the rear wing on a buggy is one of the most important parts. It protects it when rolling, especially the rear shock tower.

I use Jconcept Wing #114
Its a thick lexan V wing, very very durable, absorbs lots of impacts. Have it on both the df02 and df03, seriously can't go wrong with one.

Put a Alu Front tower on, the front of the car is pretty tough, the diff casing design is strong as well, so a ALU tower on the front doesnt rip or break the casing unlike the rear tower, which if you dont have a huge lexan wing to absorb impacts or using a ALU rear tower, it'll just snap off the rear diff cover.

JLo

07-14-2009, 12:35 AM

The stock wing broke ages ago.
I kind of like the ghetto look of the car sans wing.

I was thinking about getting an alu front shock tower but from what I read the
alu ones can break the diff housing more easily because they have no flex.
I am confused now because what you wrote contradicts this.

g_man

07-14-2009, 12:40 AM

Hey G_man, im in Adelaide as well.
Which park u drive at? me and my friend smostly at the City Pultney Street Track.

Cool. Perhaps we can all get together for a bash sometime! We've recently been going to the BMX track along Smart Road (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Smart+Rd,+St+Agnes+SA+5097&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=47.651182,78.398438&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FamA7P0dlY5ECA&split=0&ll=-34.831451,138.714336&spn=0.001693,0.003484&t=h&z=19&iwloc=A), St Agnes (that's where those pics were taken), and sometimes we go to a small track with a few jumps (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=&daddr=-34.867961,138.665241&geocode=&hl=en&mra=mi&mrsp=0&sz=20&sll=-34.868026,138.66509&sspn=0.000676,0.001196&ie=UTF8&ll=-34.868033,138.664852&spn=0.002702,0.004785&t=h&z=18) just north of the Paradise church along Darley road.

We've been meaning to go to the Vic park racecourse with the GPS to measure our top speeds, but haven't got around to it (and the weather has been nasty recently as you know).

I don't know of the Pulteney track - where is that?

Forgetful_Duck

07-14-2009, 12:55 AM

ZOMG, SIF U DO NOT KNOW OF THE PULTNEY TRACK!

I live in paradise just around the corner of that ridiculously insane rich/chest thumping/ overdoing church.
The track near there is a bit rocky for me, too many rocks.

Ok. Pultney steer, int he city, just keep going outwards towards greenhill road, and you'll see it. Its on the right side if your leaving the city, and left if your coming in from Green hill from a right turn.

It's a massive track. Avoid Weekends if you can, lots of families go there, little kids, mums pushing toddlers even, ridiculous. And yes theres hardcore wannabe's on BMX bikes, youths bored on school holidays with no one else to abuse. Just few days ago me and a mate had 6 of them come agro us, swearing etc, beign thugs, the lot. threatenign to run over our buggies and what not blah blah. wont go into details here what happened at the end =)

But yeh mostly theres um 3 of us, 2 x df03MS's and my other mate with a DB01, all done up.

As for weather, we went to the track while rianing once, Puddles , mud everywhere, fun stuff, until we had to clean our cars....
Rusted screws, Locked up bearings, my mates db01 front one way even locked up. Avoid water... unless you WD40 everything before hand.

Mate, St Anges is hell close to where 2 of us live, we will definitely need to meet up and hit the track some day.

Forgetful_Duck

07-14-2009, 01:23 AM

Jlo, i drive my cars pretty hard, espcecially the df02 since it was my firts car, i.e noobie driving.
I've never had the front ALu tower break the front diff casing, but i have had the rear ALu tower break the rear casing. It was when car flipped up from a bump lande dupside down on grass, usign the stock rear wing and rear ALU tower, snap.... there goes the rear diff cover.

I've brokena plastic front tower by driving into a parked car wheel...
Also bent a ALU front tower smashign into a Nitro buggy, at a race track.
Bent it back, still using it. I also have a spare new ALU front tower.

The rear I've revereted to plastic ever sicne i broke the rear diff casing.
Then i banged a Jconcepts wing on, which soaks up much fo the impact of rolls and roof landings.

if you keep flippign back on this thread, you'll find pictures of ym Df02, and various upgardes i've had put on it.

g_man

07-16-2009, 12:32 AM

The rear I've revereted to plastic ever sicne i broke the rear diff casing.

I had trouble with the rear plastic shock tower - it kept bending toward the front of the car & staying like that until I used a hot air gun to soften the plastic & bend it back.

That's because I have a lead foot, er, finger. If you accelerate too hard, the car can wheelie and backflip, causing the car to scrape across the ground backwards (hence the rear shock tower bending toward the front).

DF02 wheelie bar TBA ;)

To be fair, the wing broke off a long time ago and I haven't bothered putting it back on, so the rear shock tower takes direct hits.

Forgetful_Duck

07-16-2009, 01:39 AM

To be Fair, my DF02 has never wheelied like that. But i Also have the massive J concepts wing which will prevent any sort of tower hits. Those wheels/tyres you use are massive, won't be surprised you wheelie all the time lol, the biggest tyres i have are dirt hawgs.

g_man

07-16-2009, 02:43 AM

Forgetty, we're just using Proline Dirt Hawgs (4" OD), so nothing extreme there.

Maybe I should put dinky little wheels on the sides of one of those tough lexan JConcepts wings. Then I could pop wheelies & drive vertically on the back & wing-wheels. Wing as a dual-purpose shock tower saver & wheelie 'bar' ;)

timie1

07-17-2009, 02:22 AM

Gman, so you're having issues with it wheelying?
I never had any problems with that when I was running the stock tamiya spike tyres. When I put great big dirt works tyres on it, now it wheelies and does endo's - very annoying.
If you're not concerned about how dorky it may look, get a small rear wing and somehow attach it to the front, in front of the shock tower. To test my theory I taped an old wing on my B4 which wheelies too easily. Use your imagination as to the angle of the wing. It's got to let airflow over the wing, but it can't be vertical so as to cause too much drag. I think about a 25° angle is good. This completeley solved any problem with wheelies and didn't add any weight to slow it down. Just experiment with the placement.
Just remember, it won't win any beauty contests with a rear buggy wing on the front, but it does the trick :D

g_man

07-17-2009, 02:56 AM

Timie, I may complain about the wheelies, but that's only because it messes up my body & shock towers, and then I have to walk over and flip the car upright, which sucks because I'm lazy. I actually enjoy the fact my car has enough torque to backflip, I just gotta control the throttle better so the front lifts up but doesn't go fully over - that's when it looks impressive!

One time it backflipped because I gunned it too hard, then as it was sliding along the road upside down, the rear shock tower caught a rock and it flipped back upright again so I could keep driving :)

I don't think the front wing idea would work, because it's more prone to flip at low speeds when you try to accelerate too hard, and at low speeds the downforce produced by the front wing would be minimal. I will try to take a quick video this weekend if I get my rear shock tower reattached.

Forgetful_Duck

07-17-2009, 04:18 AM

What part(s) have you broken? need replaced? rear diff cover and a new rear tower?

g_man

07-17-2009, 07:39 AM

What part(s) have you broken? need replaced? rear diff cover and a new rear tower?

Just the rear diff cover - the top part of the slot where the shock tower locates into has cracked. It's cool, I've got a plan to repair it & make it stronger.

Forgetful_Duck

07-17-2009, 12:11 PM

Well I have some spares, but unless you strengthen or put on a good Jconcepts lexan wing, it's still gonna break. Go for the wing man, Mine hasnt broken since....

timie1

07-17-2009, 12:35 PM

I second Forgetty's wing. You gotta get a wing like that. They look cooler, they provide lots of downforce, and they are so thick they so they just refuse to break.

Gman, you could try fabricating your own wheelie bar something like this. (http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachments/electric-off-road/297031d1198610914-need-wheelie-bar-ft-t4-wheely-bar.jpg) Take off that ridiculous plastic guard on the bottom of the back diff and put that on.

g_man

07-19-2009, 01:03 AM

Ok, shock tower reattached. The next time it comes off it's gonna take the diff cover with it!

88666 88667

I drilled through the two existing screw holes in the diff cover & inserted longer screws (so I could use nuts). The vertical scew and rectangular steel 'washer' inside the diff cover should distribute the impact from jumps.

Bad news though - the little bevel gear that turns diff was mangled pretty bad. Gotta find out how that happened :confused: The big diff gear definitely wasn't meshing THAT tightly:

88668 88669

timie1

07-19-2009, 02:49 AM

Just a thought.....with those mods your diff cover will be the thing to go, like you said, but may I also suggest it won't just be your diff cover, but most likely the diff and bevel gears, your outdrives, and quite possibly your dogbones or CVD.

I'm not saying what you did is bad, it probably will strengthen the shock tower area up loads. However, it's common knowledge with any RC that if you make one bit aluminium, then you have to make any adjoining bit alu as well, and the bits those adjoin to also aluminium, and so on. Pretty soon your whole car is alloy and expensive, and heavier.
Strengthening what you did to that extreme is only amplifying the problem of the next weakest point breaking, and in your case, you have a lot more to lose should the next weakest point break.

Just offering advice from someone who's been there and seen it with my own eyes.

g_man

07-19-2009, 03:18 AM

My philosophy is that if I keep repairing the weakest links, then overall the car will become stronger. I might make something else (probably something major) the weakest link as a result - but hey carnage is part of r/c bashing ;)

Yes, I understand that strength does not mean rigidity- there's a lot to be said for factoring in a little flexibility as this will go a long way to soften impacts and reduce stress concentrations. If I could stick to my plastic shock tower I would, and maybe once I fit a decent wing I'll give the stock tower another go.

I just had a thought - you can get M3 screws & nuts made of nylon - I may use those to mount the shock tower and hopefully they'll be the first to go in a bad stack.

One day I might even achieve my dream of flattening my 8000mAh LiPo before I bust my car! Yeah that's right - never flattened that battery before!

turbo_rolla

07-19-2009, 05:37 AM

Been watching this thread for a while but only noticed with the last couple of pages that a couple of you are from Adelaide too! I've got a DF02 thrasher (got a TT01 that i take out with about 5 or 6 other mates). Havent done too much - aluminium shocks, aluminium shock mounts, 15x2 brushed motor that was in my TT01, some slightly wider wheels, ball bearings and a truck shell on it.

Read on here how someone had used a T4 shell on theirs so went out and got one, cut it up then realised it was too short for the rear suspension mounts to fit under, so had to do some cutting :roll2: Im down St Agnes way too, so might have to go visit that bike track - havent actually taken it out to any tracks yet, just thrashing around the street on the dirt bits and using it as a camera chase car for drift :D

Pics (yes, i did put the Team Associated stickers on it :p). Only other thing i'd probably do is slap some bigger tires on it, and maybe 2.2 rims

Forgetful_Duck

07-19-2009, 06:47 AM

That's it, who's free Monday and or tuesday?
Arrange a time and il be there, im on holidays.

g_man

07-19-2009, 07:22 AM

More locals?! Excellent! My bro in-law is still waiting for his universals (should come this week). Looking forward to meeting some of you at the track soon.

timie1

07-20-2009, 03:18 AM

Damn you all!!!! :D

This will soon have to be an Adelaide forum.

Forgetful_Duck

07-20-2009, 04:06 AM

G man, I think your bevel gear has suffered stress from being too trigger happy, too much impulse on the drive train, no slipper, too many hard starts.
You run mamba max right? insane....!
Whats the KV rating on your motor?

g_man

07-20-2009, 04:39 AM

I've had the MM in the DF02 for quite a while and the drivetrain has held up very well. I've had a close look, and I think this is happening (below), but I can't understand why the little bevel gear would slip toward the diff like that.

The mangled little bevel gear has teeth marks around the side of the webbing which can only come from the teeth of the main diff gear, but it's not like the gears are tight when they're meshing together in the correct position. Weird! :confused:

(crude drawing alert)
88683

I use a Traxxas Velineon 3500kv motor. Bloody happy with it's output! ;)

Forgetful_Duck

07-20-2009, 12:45 PM

The only other thing i can think of is the Main drive shaft Flexing under load.
The stock plastic shaft Does flex a lot, on 2S sometimes i can hear a whapping sound comign from the chassis, and if u dismantle the shaft you can see the marks it make sont he inside of the chassis.
On 3s the drive shaft bends so much , that anything baove 50% throttle would produce a horrible crackly noise. I soon changed to a Aluminium center shaft.

Web|PLC

07-21-2009, 09:18 AM

Hey guys, I've spent some time reading this thread ans figured I should join and participate (even if I'm a few years late :rolleyes:)...

To make a long story short, my uncles were big into RC cars, trucks, planes and boat when I was younger, and RC toys fascinated me. I never did end up buying an RC car though, until now.

A few weeks ago, I stumbled upon a youtube video featuring an RC chopper, and the google ads were pointing to TowerHobby. I guess the ad triggered some childhood memories and within the hour (compulsive buyer), I had ordered a Tamiya Plasma Edge combo (car, radio, charger) for $210.00.

Since then, I've ordered :
- ball bearings (full set)
- GPM dampers (if they crap out, I'll get some DF-03 dampers)
- Deans connectors, soldering iron & solder
- Tamiya RS540-S sport tuned motor (new for $15.00!)
- 67T spur gear
- 4 HPI SS monter wheels in black with bigger tires
- 4x 3600mah NiMh battery packs

I figure the limited hop-ups will last me until the fall, and next spring, I'll go with a brushless ESC/motor and LiPo.

I'll post some pics as soon as I build the thing ;)

- Funny thing is : I thought custom/watercooled computer building was an expensive hobby, and that RC toys were way cheaper... that's what I told my girlfriend, anyways :D

Anyways, glad to be onboard, even if I end up being the only active DF-02 owner / poster ;)

Forgetful_Duck

07-21-2009, 04:02 PM

You will be wanting mroe very very quickly...
This is a money hole man.

I started in FEB 2009 (this year) from scratch with nothing.
DF02 Rising storm kit, Tamiya sport tuned motor.
and basic radio gear, a decent multifunction charger and 2 x nimh 4600 mah sticks.

After just 2 weeks i already felt the car needed modding, the stock suspension geometry was just way too poor. So i spent like $70 on rcmart, only to pretty much waste that money.....

After a month or so i wanted brushless....
Spent more money on more upgrades such as universals, more wheels and tyres, turnbuckles, another set of aftermarket dampers, new rear wing, lots of spares including chassis, etc (i was breaking stuff).

I reckon i've put in $500+ total in the df02. As my first car I've wasted a lot of money on it. I say waste because alot of those items havent given much return in terms of fun factor. Just dud upgrades, lot of it just broke during assembly like yeah Breaking titanium turn buckles... they are a joke, and it still left me wanting more.
DF02 parts are becoming rarer, and 3rd party parts support is dropping. Not to mention VERY costly.
DF02 lasts me about 3 months.
Then i went for a the df03....MS version...

Web|PLC

07-21-2009, 05:35 PM

Then i went for a the df03....MS version...

Pardon my ignorance: what is an MS version?

g_man

07-21-2009, 08:51 PM

DF02 parts are becoming rarer, and 3rd party parts support is dropping. Not to mention VERY costly.

Yeah that worries me. The DF02 is only viable if you upgrade a few things (add alloy centre shaft, universals, bearings). If key DF02-specific parts become too rare and expensive then I don't know what I'd drive next. Not a DF03 that's for sure!

Perhaps when I see how awesome Forgetty's DF03 MS version is, I'll be converted. (yeah, what's the MS thing about?)

Web|PLC

07-21-2009, 09:26 PM

The DF02 is only viable if you upgrade a few things (add alloy centre shaft, universals, bearings).

Got the bearings, and ordered the alloy center shaft... Are the universals + cup joints really necessary?

Any other really worthwhile hop-ups (aside from dampers, got the covered)?

JLo

07-21-2009, 10:09 PM

Any other really worthwhile hop-ups

Heat sink?

When I first got my RS I noticed the motor got really hot after a bash so I bought a cheap 3bay heat sink.
The motor still gets hot but nowhere near as much.

------------------------------------------
I've had my car for ages and haven't really played with it much recently.
Since finding this forum I've started using it again...and the more I read the
more money I want to spend on mods.
I've also saved a lot of money by not buying things that people have said are a
waste.:D

g_man

07-21-2009, 10:14 PM

Got the bearings, and ordered the alloy center shaft... Are the universals + cup joints really necessary?

Any other really worthwhile hop-ups (aside from dampers, got the covered)?

Web|PLC, you've covered the centre shaft & bearings which are the big issues. I've heard the stock dogbones aren't too bad, so you could wait until you go brushless before switching to universals. These (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380139997823) are quite cheap, although I can highly recommend the genuine Tamiya ones (#53791) together with the Tamiya out-drive cups (#53790).

Aside from these things, the other guys have been recommending a nice big, fat wing such as the JConcepts 0114. This will help soften impacts when you stack it!

Also, if you're thinking about using a brushless motor and big tires (eg 4" OD), then stick to the slower motors eg. Traxxas 3500kv or Mamba 4600kv (or equivalent) because the DF02 seems to have less gear reduction in the transmission than other buggies. You risk frying your motor, esc and/or battery if you install a faster motor.

Oh, and when you do go brushless, get a Robinson Racing 48P METRIC (0.6 module) pinion because the aluminium (aluminum :p) ones don't last long.

Forgetful_Duck

07-22-2009, 03:35 AM

If you buy universals for the DF02, to be safe GET TAMIYA DF02 universals.
You will also need the metal outdrives from the diffs to go with the uni's which are about $8-10. Tamiya universals are $25-30

The tamiya steel outdirves are for the df02 and tt01, and are super strong, no deformation at all, the universals are super tank as well.
I bought GPM ones for the rear thinking yeh cheap.... but thats all there is... cheap.... Worn out, and grub screw hex broken, in 3 runs. Pins falling out etc etc......

I love the tamiya df02 universals. They are also the offcial tamiya universals for the df03. lol, i run them front and rear on my df03. Super strong, no bends, no issues.

And what does MS stand for?
Mobile Suit~! Like fricken Kira Yamato man, invincible (無敵） ! j/k lol

g_man

07-22-2009, 04:08 AM

Are you sure the DF02 universals fit the DF03?

I read that somewhere else, so I thought "hmmm... that means I can get DF03 universals for my DF02"... so I ebayed me some Tobee DF03 universals & they didn't fit!!! RRRrrrr (edit: I was using the Tamiya steel outdrives #53790)

DF03 MS is invincible huh? I'd like to see that... Sure it's not 坐在鸭 ? ;)

Forgetful_Duck

07-22-2009, 04:38 AM

They dont fit cause you need to buy the tamiya universal diff outdrives. for df02 / tt01. If you buy the tamiya universals for df02, you will find you also need to buy that other $10 steel universal diff outdrive i mentioned.

g_man

07-22-2009, 04:54 AM

Sorry Forgetty - I didn't make it clear that I was actually trying to use 'em with the Tamiya DF02/TT01 steel outdrives (#53790).

I was just being a tightar5e & was trying to save some cash by going with the Tobee DF03 universals over the Tamiya DF02 ones.

I found that the Tobee DF03 universals were a tad too long in the DF02 but otherwise fit fine into the Tamiya steel outdrives...

Web|PLC

07-22-2009, 09:20 AM

Guys, thanks for all the priceless information!

JDT

07-23-2009, 12:02 PM

Tobee craft racing makes a hardened steel version of the 53790 tamiya outdrive I have been using with good results
The DF 03 MS comes with the 53791 DF 02 universals, for those of you running tamiya universals I wanted to make sure and give you a head up on rebuild parts, I know its in here somewhere but this thread is getting a little long for the new people to read completely
axle shaft 53499
cross pin and joint 53500
You can't buy the dog bones seperately so if it bends you are out of luck but its nice to replace the axle shafts if they ever wear out or break off

MS is for Maezumi Satoshi, a factory driver, engineer and general tamiya big wig

Web|PLC

07-23-2009, 12:05 PM

Quick question about wheels & tires :

I bought some cool looking wheels, with spiked trucked tires. Question is: should I have bought foam inserts?

timie1

07-23-2009, 01:13 PM

Yes you should have bought the inserts. It's like driving a real car around with a flat tire.
You can get away with buggy sized tires without foam, but not really with truck sized tires.

Forgetful_Duck

07-24-2009, 03:48 AM

Thanks for that again JDT, i remember motnhs ago you posting those part numbers. Worth a try askign vendors, but i haven't seen those individual rebuild parts for sale.

I just happen to find this little guy on my drive shaft whilst unplugging the battery.... fricken poo'ed on it as well!
http://members.iinet.net.au/~h_yeung/DSC00029.JPG

JDT

07-24-2009, 08:33 AM

see what he thinks of the df 03!!!

timie1

07-24-2009, 04:23 PM

see what he thinks of the df 03!!!
LMAO

g_man

07-29-2009, 12:26 PM

I finally got around to editing the video of last weekend's action. We had a blast! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm-rQWhdt60

It's pretty much of Forgetful_Duck's DF03 MS and my DF02, but my brother-in-law's DF02 makes a brief appearance toward the end. turbo_rolla was there with his 'Hound, but unfortunately not while the video camera was out.

Forgetful_Duck

07-30-2009, 03:08 AM

It's insane how much control you guys had in the air with those massive wheels and tyres.
You could hear the 'crunch' when i broke the rear arm flooring the car over that jump.

turbo_rolla

07-30-2009, 04:48 AM

Looks good guys! i'll be out for video next time :D my lipo arrived today and i've got the 5.5t Ezrun in and its a fair bit quicker than it was ;) took it out just before it started raining about an hour ago and it was doing backflips from a standstill on the grass lol. Looking forward to getting it out to the track. When's the next meet up???

ShadowKnyte

07-30-2009, 07:48 AM

Geez that is some fine filming if I don't say so myself ;)
Hi all I'm the driver of the third car in that video a Rising Storm DF-02, finally decided to join this forum rather than just read all ya posts.
It was an awesome day and it was great meeting other local Tamiya car owners. Luckily we managed a few patch up jobs to keep going!

JDT

07-30-2009, 08:41 AM

nice video guys, bash on

Web|PLC

07-30-2009, 11:49 AM

Alright guys, I finally received my car kit (P.Edge, radio) from Tower Hobbies, and the performance hop-ups are slowly trickling in the mail everyday...

My car kit was pretty banged up; I think the USPS guys AND the border guys used it to play football or something. Long story short, I had a deformed/scratched spoiler and a some deformed/broken A parts. To make it worse, the grease tube was split open and emptied itself on a lot of parts.

I repaired the A parts temporarily by heating them up and remolding, but I'm kinda pissed about the spoiler.

An eBay seller also sent me 2 pairs of REAR GPM shocks; the issue is being resolved now.

In the end, I had to order another set of A parts, some ceramic grease and a JConcepts spoiler.

----

NOW, the plan is to finish building with all stock parts (with the exception of 67T spur gear + all metal bearings) this weekend and ride the hell out of it, to get a feel of what this thing can do. I'll try to capture as much as I can on video.

A couple of weeks after, I'll do a complete rebuild with:
- Sport tuned motor + heat sink
- GPM dampers
- Alloy main shaft
- HPI wheels + truck tires

Again, I'll try to film as much as possible and then do a comparative video montage.

Can't wait !!!

------

On a side note, this might be my first, and last time buying a Tamiya RC. When I look an HPI's and Traxxas' offerings (RTR + pre-tuned + brushless), they look like pretty good deals...

Anyways, more to follow ...!

turbo_rolla

07-31-2009, 03:48 AM

SO, got my lipo and new motor, and the weather was okay this arvo so i went down to the bike track that me, forgetful duck, g_man and shadowknyte met up at last weekend to see how the beast went. First trip wasnt so great - was having issues with my receiver and it was all twitchy, so drove the 5 mins home, stuck my spektrum fm gear in it and went back.

Had a few runs, trying to get used to it. Was jumping alright, and then i grabbed a bit too much brake while it was in the air.......WIll let the pictures tell the story :rolleyes:

Looks worse than it is - basically, the cheap yeah racing screws on the part where the shock tower assembly mounts to the diff, and it popped out, and then the bar that the rear arms sit on somehow came out nicely so that everything managed to stay on it. Found the dogbones about 2m either side of where it landed. Am actually fairly happy, as the tamiya bits held together nicely, was just the s#!tty screws that caused the issue. Not bad considering it landed fair on its roof :p See the second pic where it dug into the track before coming to a halt? :eek: So will replace them and be back out soon!

Forgetful_Duck

07-31-2009, 04:40 AM

Yeah racing metal parts, AVOID. I dunno if i stressed this enough pages and pages back when i sitll ran the df02 as the primary car. But i had nothing but crap from Yeah racing Chassis upgrades. I nick name them, Yeah breaking.

g_man

07-31-2009, 07:14 AM

Those tyres look great! If you get decent wear out of them then I might grab a set of those.

As for the shock tower, you could try attaching it like I did (pics a page or so back), but in doing that (as timie1 pointed out) something else will have to ‘give’ in a bad stack - probably something more expensive

Damn, I wish I could have been there for the action! :)

turbo_rolla

07-31-2009, 07:37 AM

i actually havent had heaps of issues with the yeah racing stuff i've got between my two cars other than the screws really, and a universal i snapped in my drifter when i hit a concrete head on at about 45km/hr lol. Will get it all fixed up with some better screws and be back out there sometime this weekend hopefully :D

g_man

07-31-2009, 09:03 AM

Just posting the way we use Velcro straps to make it possible for the DF02 to carry ENORMOUS batteries:

88980 88981

Just make sure you use threadlock on the screws and DON'T DO THEM UP TOO TIGHTLY. Install the screws as low as possible in the chassis so they won't dent the battery.

ShadowKnyte and I had problems with the battery sliding forward & hitting the steering mechanism. You can stop that by doing this:

88982

turbo_rolla

08-02-2009, 01:44 AM

After some issues, i went out and got some new screws that'll hopefully keep the shocks mounted to the rear nicely and stop various things, such as a full rear end, from popping out :rolleyes: slapped them in anything i could - had to make a little room for some of them with the drill, but the bits shouldnt go anywhere now.

So with this, i took it out to the track this morning again. Got a few little videos that i'll put up on youtube too. Was pretty windy, so wasnt the best conditions for it, but managed to land some alright jumps and not have toooo many issues. Only issue i had was the left upper control arm dumping its screw on some hard landings (ie end over end flips :p), which then sent the dogbone flying. Gotta say its hard to find the dogbones on a darkish dirt track, but managed to find it all THREE times it happened. Gave up after the third shot, and returned home to secure it better. Think i might spray them bright yellow or something so they're easier to find lol.

Only duck, g_man and shadow will know what im talking about now, but i thought i'd have a shot at that little set of jumps after that one we were using the other week, and where we usually turn around to head back - where its got the camel hump setup - ie ^-^ and drops off pretty steeply to the bowl to the left. I am happy to report that i managed to make it - couple were a bit nasty as it got caught in the wind and not clean off the jump, but landed a couple of them sweetly so was happy with that :)

Main thing to come out of today is im REALLY happy with the setup and the brushless motor and lipo - very good investments.

VIDEOS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs-rli4velg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yomztt357h4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmSE25UqfzE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtsOcN12Q2o

g_man

08-02-2009, 05:06 AM

turbo_rolla, Looks like you're getting some decent air there - much more than last time! :D

yeah - once you go LiPo you'll never want to use another NiMh/NiCd stick pack EVER AGAIN!

Given that, I'd definitely recommend you get a balancing charger, or even just a balancer for your existing charger (such as the Flightpower V-Balance). I use a V-Balance with my Swallow Advance and it's great.

If you are going to get a new charger, get one that has a LiPo 'storage mode'. This puts the battery in a ~60% charged state which prolongs the life of the battery - great for when you're not using them for a couple of weeks or more (like when it keeps pis-sing with rain).

(Sorry if you already know all this - I have no idea how much you already know) :)

turbo_rolla

08-02-2009, 06:48 AM

yeah, heaps more air than last time - can actually clear the jump now, and pretty easily like you guys ;) thanks for the info on the batteries - i know a little, but not much about lipos. I've got a swallow 2, so will see what i can get to run with that - will look into the v-balance setup. I'll have to have a look over the swallow 2 to see what exactly it can do :cool:

g_man

08-02-2009, 07:11 AM

Some dudes here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666682) are talking about charging LiPos with the Swallow 2. In the pics they're using charge-through balancers (which are very similar to my V-Balance.)

turbo_rolla

08-02-2009, 07:58 AM

Thanks Adam - will make a few calls tomorrow and see what i can get. Will most likely end up getting some kind of charge-through balancers :)

94eg

08-03-2009, 06:46 PM

If I were to buy a 35A EZ Run system to work with the stock 19T pinion & 2.2" buggy tires, which motor would you guys recommend?

9T
10T
12T
13T

Heat is a factor out here in the 110+ Vegas summer... ;)

g_man

08-04-2009, 04:30 AM

If I were to buy a 35A EZ Run system to work with the stock 19T pinion & 2.2" buggy tires, which motor would you guys recommend?

I assume you mean 2.2" wheels/rims (not tires)? We still need to know the outside diameter (OD) of the tires you intend to use.

For example if, like many of us, you're using "Proline Dirt Hawg 2.2" tires (which fit on 2.2" wheels but have an OD of 4"), then I'd suggest you go with the 12T (3300kv) motor. This is because it should run well if you gear it 19/70 (stock), but if it runs too warm or too cool then there's plenty of room to change the gearing either way to get a good balance between performance and temperature.

(This assumes you'll be powering it with either a 7.2V NiMh/NiCd stick pack or 2S LiPo battery).

Forgetful_Duck

08-04-2009, 06:49 AM

I ran my df02 with Stock gearing, 35A ESC and 9T , 4300KV motor, using Dirthawg I and III tyres. In Australian Summer. so over 100F. No problems.
Just that the motor burns you if you touch it. But the system doesn't thermal. I didn't have a heatsink by the way. so if u whack one on and better yet have one with a fan, since theres plenty of room on the DF02, you'll be fine even with the 4300. And she flies.... with that motor and dirthawgs + 2S lipo.

g_man

08-04-2009, 07:33 AM

Duck, that sounds about right because your Dirt Hawg Buggy tires (I and III) are only 3.5" OD... Also, I like to be able to touch my motor (for at least a couple of seconds) ;)

Interesting, your DF02 recipe (19/70 3.5" tires & 4300 kv) is a little slower but very close to my current setup (23/78 4" tires & 3500 kv) but the difference is I can touch my motor! It is expected that Vileneon motor should run cooler under the same load though... Even more so now that I have a big heatsink.

94eg

08-04-2009, 10:43 AM

Yes. At first we will be using the kit tires which are almost bald, and then upgrade to Dirt-Hawgs 2.2" later on.

As for not being able to touch the brushless motor, that's a recipe for disaster. Heat weakens the rotor magnet, and that's no good. These motors should never get over 170* on the outside or they will start weaken...

12T sounds like a great start... ;)

g_man

08-05-2009, 03:54 AM

12T sounds like a great start... ;)

If you're not planning to use tires bigger than 3.5" OD then I'd go for the 10T (3900 kv).

JDT

08-05-2009, 10:03 AM

g_man

08-05-2009, 06:55 PM

what are you using to get 23/78 gearing on a df 02?

This. (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?p=2402595#post2402595)

JDT

08-06-2009, 08:30 AM

good to know, I had used the tobee 42880 spur gear adapter to run 78/15 in the past with modified traxxas spur gears, I don't see the point of this however as 23/78 is 8.817 ratio, between the factory attainable 67/19 at 9.168 and 67/20 at 8.71, did you just do this to try it or to get normal 48 pitch pinions? When people talk about gearing they want it lower the 70/16 11.375 is not deep enough to run a 10 turn brushed motor or a very high kv brushless motor.

g_man

08-06-2009, 09:59 AM

JDT, as I was discussing with timie, I've had problems with the Tamiya 67T spur. Sometimes I've broken teeth, other times the slot at the centre of the spur has been stretched by the drive pin. It can't handle the torque.

This is a stronger setup, and moving to 48P gives me many options for both spurs and pinions & you can get some good quality stuff (better than the Tamiya spurs).

If I want, I can go as low as 14/84 in 48P (much lower than 16/70). You're not even restricted to 48P. Some 32P spurs will go on this HPI adapter so you can use insane motors intended for 1/8 cars... ;)

JDT

08-06-2009, 01:42 PM

cool I might try this on my beater car since its still running the waterproof brushed setup, on my primary car I don't usually mess with changing gears anymore, I just throw on more juice if I want to go faster, mine is at 70/16 pretty much all the time, I just go from 2s to 3s on those days when I want to go stupid fast lol.

ShadowKnyte

08-06-2009, 09:24 PM

Yeah TurboRolla once you go brushless with big wheels for greater ground clearance and LiPo's you ain't ever going back ;)

turbo_rolla

08-07-2009, 10:01 PM

Yeah TurboRolla once you go brushless with big wheels for greater ground clearance and LiPo's you ain't ever going back ;)Yeah, its fantastic! I'd probably say the buggy is more fun than my drifter now, and makes it feel quite slow, even though that's brushless too :) gonna try and get down to the track today for some more practice!

turbo_rolla

08-08-2009, 03:19 AM

Went down to st agnes track this arvo guys but couldnt get on :( However, its not all bad news - it appeared there was a working bee going on and the track was being worked on and packed back down and filled in etc, SOOOO, it should be nice and smooth and new for us to tear up next time we go down :p

ShadowKnyte

08-08-2009, 10:06 AM

I'm definitely up for tearing up the new smooth surface. I'm actually wondering when they ever use it for BMX's as I've only seen the rare 1-3 people there ever at once.

ShadowKnyte

08-08-2009, 10:07 AM

It is really more an R/C track me thinks ;)

turbo_rolla

08-09-2009, 03:04 AM

Yeah, definitely a RC track - i've only seen a couple of people there most times too - most i've seen was the last couple of days when i've gone past - were about 7 or 8 bikes there yesterday and today. I'll be heading back out next weekend most likely, and maybe during the week. Have replaced some screws so hopefully they stop breaking. Im actually pretty happy with the strength of the car though - the only bits that have broken are screws, and most of them have been from the yeah racing screws i got. Its taken some decent falls/hits/rolls too :p

Forgetful_Duck

08-09-2009, 09:31 AM

I disagree. From what i saw at that track in St Agnes, Its too rough.
Theres only a FEW jumps that i'll be confident in taking, i.e the one in the video. But the rest are just too insane. The ground is very uneven, with lots of debris, too much erosion, theres too cracks and gorges int he ground.
bad for the cars.

The City bike track on pultney is much more tame. Theres parts where you can actually design a good circuit for a race. Stand in one spot and actually try racing ur friends instead of just doing this one jump over and over at St Agnes. Sure you can do that at the city track too, plenty of big jumps if you game enough. Try it, racing each other i reckon is just as fun as takign huge jumps, as we're all tryign to fight for the lead, but it's only possible if we aint all rolling over, flipping out on huge ass jumps.
Only thing is on weekends there will be bikes at the city track.

ShadowKnyte

08-09-2009, 11:05 AM

Forgetful Duck you wouldn't be worried about uneven ground and debris if you had BIG WHEELS :)

g_man

08-09-2009, 11:23 AM

Duck, I think the guys meant the St Agnes track is primarily used for offroad r/c (even though that's not what it was designed for). One day we could try to do a complete lap - if we stand in the middle we should be able to maintain visibility of our cars for enough of the time! ;)

I don't like the idea of being confronted by some meat-head father at the city track because my buggy accidentally collected their kid doing 50 kph.

As you experienced :D, decent sized stones can be sent flying when we pull the trigger so I'd prefer we not go somewhere too crowded... Especially since you guys are crazy drivers ;)

I wouldn't mind checking out the city track anyway tho (never been there).

g_man

08-09-2009, 11:29 AM

Forgetful Duck you wouldn't be worried about uneven ground and debris if you had BIG WHEELS :)

Yeah, and I'm keen to see how long the DF03 drivetrain lasts under the stress of driving 4" tyres :)

turbo_rolla

08-09-2009, 05:21 PM

THe St Agnes track will be smoother after the work they've done over the weekend - im gonna go suss it out again tonight. The track seems alot easier with the truck tires though, rather than the standard sized wheels ;)

That jump after the one we were doing that day is make-able (the steep one that goes into the bowl), as i landed it a couple of times, in a headwind. I wanna push my car to see what it can do, so am happy with some big jumps :D

Forgetful_Duck

08-11-2009, 05:25 AM

nah, i'm gonna stick to what the df03's designed for. Whackign big wheels on a 1/10 buggy is fun, but it just takes too much out of the ball diffs, diff joints, main gear. The lot.
Not to mention handling suffers, traction rolls, higher CG you flip over much easier. I used to run lots of ground clearance on the df02 with slightly larger proline dirthawgs, and it rolled so damn much.

The car just handles **** when you have zero droop in the suspension. You go over slight uneven surface and the thing loses composure.
What i am lookign forward to though, is buying that 1/16th (same size as our 1.10th buggies) E-revo from USA. That thing is designed with big wheels in mind.... youtube it its jaw dropping insane..
=)

tfedsdb

08-11-2009, 06:36 AM

Absolutely off topic but if i post in a dead thread (TA-02 on-road) you'll all kill me sowill DF-02 front and rear knuckles and c-hubs fit on the TA-02.
Heres the link:http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Blue-alloy-race-upgrade-4-Tamiya-DF02-DF-02_W0QQitemZ400066601411QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Toys _Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles?hash=item5d25d3 e1c3&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262
Sorry theres no photo:o

g_man

08-11-2009, 07:08 AM

that 1/16th (same size as our 1.10th buggies) E-revo from USA. That thing is designed with big wheels in mind.... =)

Looks interesting... But same size as our 1/10 buggies though only takes a 380 size motor? ZZZzzzzz!! UNLESS you whack in a 540 size using a "Tenbol" kit, but there's the open spur problem again - not keen on getting dirt in my motor's drive end bearing & grinding stones between my pinion/spur :huh:

turbo_rolla

08-11-2009, 07:25 AM

i remember reading somewhere that the Ezrun brushless systems are 380 size motors in a 540 size can??? If this is the case and they're similar power to them, they might be alright. I like the look of the df02 better though, and didnt think the E-revo looked thaaaat much better than what i saw on the youtube vids??? That's just my uninformed opinion though :p looks like it can take some alright jumps though, which is my main criteria :D

g_man

08-11-2009, 08:11 AM

Yeah some of the cheaper Ezrun motors are 380's with fins that pad them out to look like 540/550 size. They're alright, but real 540s are better :D

After that bashing in the video, my DF02 suffered some pretty bad damage. I'm starting to think it would be a very good idea to move to a stronger platform if I want to keep driving like that ;) There's a practical limit to the upgrades & strengthening mods you can apply...

I discovered the reason I'm destroying my diff ring/bevel gear. The back of the chassis bends upward when you land a big jump. This pushes the diff ring gear against the bevel gear that drives it. All DF02's have this problem but in my case it's worse because I have reduced slack in my spur gear shaft thanks to my 48p spur mod... And there aren't too many easy ways to stop this that I can think of :(

Forgetful_Duck

08-11-2009, 08:22 AM

Ah chassis flex. early in the year, me and a friend did some High Speed video's of a RC buggy doign jumps, landing etc, suspension movement, at 150-300 Frames a second. it's amazing the amount of flex you actually get.
The stock df03 design especially has the rear flex problem, which is why theres a 3racing V brace stiffener is in the list of hopups.
g_man go try make a similar brace for the df02 lol.

Anyhow high speed video's of the buggies takign hard landings is hell cool, i got the video somewhere on the PC, il upload it later (doing university home work...)

Web|PLC

08-11-2009, 01:12 PM

Hey guys,

I bought some HPI SS front & rear wheels.

After gluing on some tires, I installed the rear wheels on my PlasmaEdge. It uses a star-pattern adapter, much like the stock tamiya ones (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXN057&P=M).

Needless to say, that was pretty straightforward.

Now, onto the front wheels: they use a different adapter, called a bearing adapter. Now I ask myself, does that mean I have to remove my ball bearing and stick that wheel adapter in its place?

I'm having a rough time figuring out how to securely installing these front wheels. If anybody feels like helping, please do...!

g_man

08-11-2009, 07:48 PM

Web|PLC

08-11-2009, 09:21 PM

Web|PLC, you should have bought two sets of rear wheels (eg. like these (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXM876&P=7)), then the front & rear mount identically. The HPI SS front wheels are for 2wd cars. Sorry, but you'll have to go back to Tower Hobbies.

Yeah, I kinda figured... wonder if I can work (modify) the stock tamiya wheel adapters ...
Thanks for the info though!

timie1

08-12-2009, 03:37 AM

To all those who mentioned about 380 sized motors being underpowered for an E-Revo 1/16, I'd be willing to bet that EVERYBODY (bar those using the Traxxas VXL motor) in their DF02 or any buggy for that matter, is in fact using a 380 size rotor in their "540" motor.
Most sensorless motors out there are really a 380 sized rotor in a 540 can. Mamba CM36 motors, EZrun ones that have fins, feigao, losi motors etc, are 380 rotors. They do not suffer from lack of power in a buggy.

This is why, a while back, I was recommending the 3500kv VXL motor for anybody wanting to put big horey dorey wheels on their DF02. It is a 540 rotor in a 550 can. The extra power on tap, with the right battery, would put the rest to shame when gearing options are limited, as they are in the DF02. You can gear that thing to the hilt and it won't complain. I believe the other EZrun motors are a proper 540 rotor, the ones that don't have fins on them, but they are much harder to find.

The reality is, a 380 rotor will completely annihilate a 380 brushed motor. There is no comparison. Yes, the size is the same, but not power output.

Actually open spurs aren't an issue really. Very few cars have fully enclosed geartrains, and they are used offroad. Nitros :flame: have entirely open spurs and everything else. They don't have issues - or at least not with the spurs - the engines and tuning are a different story entirely. I've run my cars and Emaxx without the spur cover from time to time. Less crap gets clogged around the spur when there is no cover on it then when the cover is on. Any dust and stones just fall away as opposed to being trapped in there.

What else did I have to say.........oh yeah, I doubt those arms would fit a TA02. They are YEARS apart. I had a TA03 and TA05. The TA03 came out in about '97 I think. So the TA02 would be early 90's. You may get lucky and retro fit them, but nearly everything is different. I very much doubt you'll get any luck getting anything to fit. Maybe the odd bearing, or wheel adaptor. I could be wrong though.
If you're looking for things to buy, you should be looking for TT01 parts. Much of that is the same to the DF02.

tfedsdb

08-12-2009, 05:37 AM

Thanks timie. Just saved me some cash.

tfedsdb

08-12-2009, 05:41 AM

tfedsdb

08-12-2009, 05:42 AM

OOPS double post.

JDT

08-12-2009, 07:16 AM

someone has been lying to you about the 16th e revo guys its way smaller
its three inches shorter overall, has less track width and less wheelbase than a df 02, they are cool but saying its compairable to a 10th buggy is not correct. I was impressed with them on the track but bashing they are nothing to get excited about. with the body off one could probably fit underneath my df 02 on mashers.

g_man

08-12-2009, 08:10 AM

timie, I didn't realise my CMS36-5700 (now in my Rustler) had a 380 rotor. Still, having stator windings that take the full diameter of the can unlike the cheaper ezrun motors would have to help it's output, surely.

As for the open spur issue - yeah I've noticed a lot of competition buggies have this, but most of the tracks where competitions are held are clean/sealed!! Electric buggies typically have finer pitched gears than nitros, and nitro engine bearings have much better protection from debris than electric motors do; so there's quite a difference there.

I quite often find a crunchy 1150 bearing in my DF02 and have to replace it. I'd hate to have to do that with my brushless motor, so I'm still not keen on open spurs!

Forgetful_Duck

08-12-2009, 10:52 AM

I aint that far off am i....?

measured my df02 just now, front track is around 245mm rear around the same 245mm, using standard buggy tyres.
Length, front bumper to rear bumper, 370mm ~ 14.5"

having not owning a 1/16th e-revo, il just rip the stats off a site.
Length: 12.9 inches (328mm)
Front Track: 9.4 inches (239mm)
Rear Track: 9.4 inches (239mm)

It's like only slightly smaller, 6mm difference in wheel track and length 1.6inches shorter.

Unless of course i measure the df02 again with monster wheels.

JDT

08-12-2009, 11:41 AM

wheelbase is 10.5 on the df 02, 7.9 on the e revo, thats 2.6 inches, I don't want to discourage you from getting one but don't expect it to be 10th scale size

timie1

08-12-2009, 02:27 PM

The point that the 16th Revo is similar or not to the DF02 is, in some respects, pointless. One of the main problems I can see with converting the DF02 to a monster truck is the terrible selection of gearing. With big wheels on, you simply cannot gear it low enough for most motors to be happy. However, with the 16th E Revo, the gearing will be designed lower, but it's also got a more standard design, so gearing can be lower should you want to.
If anybody wants to turn it into a race truck, or for speed runs, at least you can with the revo.

At any rate, I'm trying to convince Forgetful duck to get the proper E-Revo, heheh. Way cooler, way bigger, and probably more suitable for what he wants - running over cars that he bashes with and coming out better off :D Either E-Revo Brushless edition (ERBE) or the Emaxx.

timie1

08-12-2009, 04:49 PM

Thanks timie. Just saved me some cash.
Now i'm gonna put my money towards THIS:
http://www.rchobbies.com.au/store/product_info.php?cPath=339_29&products_id=35440&osCsid=7b061232038661e0f319d058507d3e99
:D:D:D

L
I'm a little confused what car you're running. If you plan to put that into a DF02 then don't. If you plan on putting it in a TA02, I'd be very careful. An 8900kv motor spins VERY fast and produces a lot of power. That may sound like great fun to beginners, but there is more to outright speed than just rpm.
You MUST be able to gear it properly to get the most out of it. You also must be able to gear it properly so it doesn't do a Chernobyl on you. Maybe in a TA02 you can gear it accordingly, but in a DF02 you definitely won't be able to, and if you run larger wheels and tires on it, you categorically will blow it up - the motor that is.

Also, what ESC do you have? That will need a grunty one, and either the 35 or 60A EZruns, which seem to be gaining in popularity on this board, will not power that motor for a few reasons, the kv rating is too high, and that motor is sensored. You'd need a Novak, or some other sensored ESC. And whatever ESC you have, make sure it can handle a 4.5t or 8900kv motor. That is very high KV. To give you an example of just how high it is, a very powerful, very fast sensorless motor of 5700kv is so damn quick, it will easily power a touring car to well over 100km/h without any fuss. I'd hate to be the one to ram the car into a wall at whatever speed you plan to get out of 8900kv. You'll need an awfully huge smooth open space to run and a very good range radio.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble about that motor, just be prepared to be able to set it up accordingly. You WILL need to drop gearing to the lowest you can, you'll need decent batteries, a suitable (and expensive ESC), and stock up on spare parts cos you will break things left right and centre, and invest in a good radio, both reliable in terms of glitching and great range. BTW, Spektrum DX2 2.4ghz have a range of only 300ft, so don't go thinking that any old 2.4ghz will solve the problem. I'd recommend at least 1000ft range with that motor.

JDT

08-13-2009, 08:47 AM

for big tires you just need less kv and more volts try a 18-22 kv motor on 4s or 3-3500 kv motor on 3s and you can gear it however your driving style dictates

Vinboi

08-14-2009, 06:23 AM

Hey guys, I'm new here at the forum, though i've been keeping my eye on this thread for about a month now (hehe)

I was thinking of spending some money on some DF02 hopups, however I don't know what to get first. I can't buy all the alloy upgrades, as i just cant afford it, so I kinda wanted know the most important stuff i should upgrade first

I plan on just bashing round at the park or on the driveway; not really into competition.

I would preferably buy the stuff online that is based in Australia, as the high shipping costs from overseas.

I have done a bit of research on ebay and found this store with some hopups:

http://stores.shop.ebay.com.au/2keys-RC-bitz__W0QQ_armrsZ1

Are the prices good? I have no idea. I was thinking of buying the 70mm and 100mm dampers from there, and probably some other stuff that you guys could suggest

Regards,

Vinboi

JDT

08-14-2009, 08:18 AM

those prices are a little higher than what you will pay at dinball and there is very little df 02 stuff, If you can just save the money and order it all at once from dinball/rcmart along with any spairs you need or want it will be cheaper in the long run but if you got to get a piece or two at a time then this would probably be cheaper.
The aluminum center shaft and bearings would be my first move
second the aluminum front tower (I would drill out the spacers and mod it for bolts instead of using the stock setup)
third the cvds and a square diff locker, part # STD 50H from dinball
fourth the c hubs, knuckles and anything else aluminum you want, body posts, battery posts,
you can check out my old posts to see the carbon fibre aluminum combo double front shock mount and the carbon fibre steering brace from square. I still need to get another square rear brace but the truck body really helps keep the stock rear one from breaking.
NO ARMS-the stock df 02 arms are great, don't waste your money or weigh the car down with them unless you are a blingmaster and gotta have them.

turbo_rolla

08-14-2009, 08:19 AM

Welcome Vinboi! That ebay shop you've put up a link to is the guy i buy 99% of my gear through, and he is really good - i've spent probably over $500 on him between my buggy and drifter and he's really good. THe stuff he sells is mostly "yeah racing" brand, which is considered by alot as cheap and nasty. Having said that, i've got alot of yeah racing gear on both my cars and the only issues i've had with them are the screws ;) if you're only going to be bashing around and not punishing it, then i'd recommend any of the gear he has :)

the shocks would be a good upgrade, if nothing else than to give you a bit more clearance and stop it from bottoming out from the smallest drops. I think i got the same size dampers front & rear for mine - cant remember how many mm off the top of my head, but they're about 10mm longer than the standard rear ones that come wth the buggy.

Alloy shaft probably isnt required if you're only going to be running the standard motor or a sports tuned - if you go something with a bit more power in it, then i'd recommend one. I am currently running my 5.5 ezrun brushless with the stock plastic shaft though :eek:

If you're gonna be running on the road alot, maybe some spare tires as you'll go through the stockies pretty quickly - then they can be the "slicks" for on-road driving and have another stubbly set for offroad?

There's heaps of alloy stuff to buy as you said, but alot of it isnt needed. I've got the shocks, and alloy shock mount towers on mine as i heard they are a weak point, and mine takes a HUGE punishing (as recent as this afternoon - about 5 lands off decent jumps on its roof :rolleyes:), and it all stays together fairly well, so the chassis itself seems pretty strong.

Other guys might have some suggestions, but the stock setup seems okay - you'll get pretty bored with the motor though, so maybe put some money aside for that (i recommend ezrun systems - again, they're cheap, but cant beat them for the money - i have one in each car and they're both fantastic).

Oh yeah, definitely bearings too as JDT mentioned!!!!

g_man

08-14-2009, 12:43 PM

Hmmm, I've been thinking about locking the diff(s). Hadn't seen the Square diff locker before. JDT, would you recommend locking the front, rear, or both for offroad (dirt & stones) bashing? :D

Alternatively, is there a good way to stiffen up the gear diffs Eg. pack the diff cases with fine sawdust or rubber swarf? Apparently thick grease just spins out...

JDT

08-14-2009, 01:15 PM

I tried the locker in both front and rear but it will "push" very bad with it in the front so I just run it in the rear and keep the front end stock. I had allready went to the four inch tires and was really suprised at how much it helped the car bashing wise, having both tires spin always no matter what makes a big difference especially in off camber climbs and climbing up loose material piles like gravel and sand or snow, not that you aussies have to worry about snow lol. Our grass gets pretty lush in the summer time here in the middle of the midwest so even with 4 inch tires I could get stuck if I had been lazy and not mowed yet that week, once I went to the locker in the back its much harder to get stuck as you don't get that one front and one back spinning on opposite sides of the car like you do with stock diffs.

Web|PLC

08-14-2009, 02:01 PM

Hey guys, I'm in the process of disassembling my DF02 in order to clean it out before I get my GPM parts...

Now I ran into a small snag (again) : my bearing are stuck in my knuckle arms!

Anybody have this happen to them before? Any solutions?

I was thinking of spraying some WD-40 and see if they budge ....

timie1

08-14-2009, 03:22 PM

WebPLC, I just get a small flat head screwdriver and turn the knuckles upside-down and push the bearings out. They'll come.
WD40 is good too, for most anything. By all means use it if you like, but I'm just telling you I don't, not to do that. However I do use it to clean and lubricate my bearings.

Vinboi

08-14-2009, 07:42 PM

the shocks would be a good upgrade, if nothing else than to give you a bit more clearance and stop it from bottoming out from the smallest drops. I think i got the same size dampers front & rear for mine - cant remember how many mm off the top of my head, but they're about 10mm longer than the standard rear ones that come wth the buggy.

I know the standard ones are 70mm and 100mm, would it be alright if i got the 110mm one? or would i need universals (or whatever they're called)

Alloy shaft probably isnt required if you're only going to be running the standard motor or a sports tuned - if you go something with a bit more power in it, then i'd recommend one. I am currently running my 5.5 ezrun brushless with the stock plastic shaft though :eek:
Actually, I was thinking of getting this: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Brushless-motor-ESC-Combo-VERS-2-9-turn-Tamiya-1-10th_W0QQitemZ120458316676QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_To ys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles?hash=item1c0b e00b84&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262 - I would probably need an alloy shaft for that right? Well I'm just going to buy the pack that has heatsink/shaft/bearings, as I think i'll need all of them.

third the cvds and a square diff locker, part # STD 50H from dinball

Are those the TT01 Diff Lockers? What do they exactly do?

and also, would this work with the DF02? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Tamiya-Ball-Diff-fo-Tamiya-TT01-TT-01-TT01E-DF02-TT-01R_W0QQitemZ120455901755QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Toy s_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles?hash=item1c0bb b323b&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

Is THIS the diff locker? whats the difference?

Sorry I have a lot of questions, but I'm really interested xD

turbo_rolla

08-14-2009, 09:15 PM

I think i run either 100mm or 110mm all around, without universals. The standard dogbones seem to be okay - they do bind a LITTLE bit, but the only times i've jammed mine was after a hard landing and its only happened a couple of times. If you were gonna do universals, i'd say maybe just on the front. You also need the tamiya cup joints if you run the universals.

Even though that brushless is probably the same as the ezruns and just rebadged, i'd get the "proper" ezrun motor:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/EzRun-RC-Car-Truck-3in1-Brushless-Motor-system-9T-power_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQ hashZitem3ef77256c8QQitemZ270439438024QQptZAUQ5fTo ysQ5fHobbiesQ5fRadioQ5fControlledQ5fVehiclesQQsale notsupportedI run one of these in my drifter and they're great for the money - obviously not as good as mamba max or anything similar, but great value and i havent had any problems. I run a 5.5t in my DF02 and it is nuts!

If you can, highly recommend a lipo battery :D i spent heaps of money on NICD's, then NIMH's, but eventually got a lipo and the difference is enormous. I've just got the Yeah Racing 5000mah Lipo. Like the ezrun motors, its great value for what it is, and i havent had any issues so far:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Li-Po-racing-battery-pack-7-4v-5000mah-with-Tamiya-plug_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em14Q2e l1262QQhashZitem5d25a008e1QQitemZ400063203553QQptZ AUQ5fToysQ5fHobbiesQ5fRadioQ5fControlledQ5fVehicle sQQsalenotsupported. You obviously need a lipo capable charger for that, and ideally a lipo balancer, but i havent used one yet.

Not sure if that's the diff JDT was talking about, but that would do a similar job i'd imagine? I havent experimented with Diffs, so those guys might be the best to ask!

Anyway, off to thrash and hopefully not wreck the buggy with G_man, Shadowknyte & forgetful duck ;)

Vinboi

08-15-2009, 01:06 AM

@turbo_rolla

Thanks for the advice. I've decided to get 70mm and 110mm dampers. I was thinking of getting a LIPO battery, but i just cant get one (unless i get one for Christmas, yay) because I've got a bunch of stuff to buy before that. I've decided to get the important stuff that you and JDT have mentioned, and will order those tonight sometime.

After i've saved up some more money (I probably should get a job haha) Then I'll go for the 9T Brushless motor+ESC and LIPO Battery/Charger/Balancer what ever i need.

Oh and by the way, has anyone done any DIY mods to this thing? I remember doing a google search that directed towards this thread of adjusting the clearance on it..

timie1

08-15-2009, 04:40 AM

Vinboi, yes quite a few of us have done DIY mods to it. A while back I posted some photos of a little adaptor I fabricated that greatly increases ride height and suspension geometry settings. Forgetful duck bought a set off me and he loves them. Look on page 156, post# 3883.

Others, who I've forgotten right now, have done that 48p spur mod. Ages ago, I remember seeing some metal braces people made for holding the bulkhead intact.

Another mod I can tell you works well is putting an o-ring or a small, and I mean small, bit of foam in the outdrives. This reduces the slop in the dogbones and goes a long way to reduce binding of the dogbones.

Despite what the assembly instructions say, when it says to put grease on the end of the dogbones, DON'T. No other brand that I know of says to use grease on dogbones. All grease does attracts dirt and sand and crap and causes premature wear on the metal on plastic rubbing. Oh, grease does make the dogbones not click when driving slow, or at least you can't hear them clicking cos the grease cushions them. But that only lasts for a short while, and in the meantime you've worn out the plastic outdrives and caused a huge mess. Just don't put grease on the end of bones.

Just my opinion on what you should get for your car............
- I would get the centre driveshaft if you use anything faster than a 19t BRUSHED motor, or any brushless motor. If you stick to a slow motor you needn't get the driveshaft.

- I would recommend universals (CVD's) for the front, but stick to dogbones on the rear.

- Stay with the stock shocks but get much lighter springs and some thicker oil. I find the shocks alright with light springs on them and 60wt oil. If you only plan to bash and run up and down the street, you don't NEED super fancy expensive shocks if you use lighter springs and thicker oil.

- I would also recommend you get the steering linkages. I find on mine that is annoying, so right now I am contemplating getting an alloy one. Mine is broken ATM. I've repaired it numerous times with superglue and now I think it's time I buy the aluminium one.

Other than that, I seriously wouldn't bother with buying upgrades. 9 times out of 10 the stock ABS plastic is stronger, or should I say more resilient to breaking, than aluminium. It is also lighter, and of course cheaper.

Think about how you will drive it though. If you're the type to thrash things, maybe you should go aluminium, but be prepared to make the whole car alloy. If you look after your things, you really won't need much, just a few things in alloy.

Also as turbo rolla said, just get the proper EZrun combo. You can get the whole combo for that 35A esc about US$60 shipped anywhere on earth. However, perhaps getting the 60A version might be better. It does seem quicker, a little bit, with the same motor. But you have more options of motors you can run on it. Sure it's a bit more expensive, but there is more capability there for when you get the bug of wanting more speed.

g_man

08-15-2009, 06:03 AM

@ Vinboi

The Square "STD 50H" diff locker replaces the DF02 (or TT01) diff gears with a hard link to lock the front (or rear) wheels so they always turn together in sync for better traction, but it will affect your handling (especially on high traction surfaces).

With the stock gear diffs, your traction is basically equivalent to that of the wheels that have the weakest ground contact (eg 1 front wheel & 1 rear wheel off the ground = no traction).

The TT01 ball diff (that you linked to) I believe does work with the DF02 (but I'm not sure if it can handle the torque if large tires are used). Ball diffs provide the same function as gear diffs but have some resistance to the left & right wheel turning out-of-sync and so provide some traction where gear diffs fail. Better technology, a 'must have' for racing, but some bashers still prefer gear diffs for their durability and simplicity.

Personally, if I decide to keep running my DF02, I'll eventually try locking the rear diff and try a ball diff in the front. The front is usually under less load so I'm hoping the TT01 ball diff will cope...

Vinboi

08-15-2009, 06:38 AM

timie1

08-15-2009, 01:56 PM

Vinboi - I suppose you could use normal steel on it. The reason I used aluminium is because it's strong and light. The aluminium is only 3mm or so thick, and it's sooo strong and weighs nothing. But I'm sure if you used steel that was 3mm thick it would work.
Are you one of the group that goes bashing with Forgetful duck and gman and all them? Probably not seeing as your in melbourne and them adelaide.
Anyway, if for some reason you do bash with them, ask forgetful duck if you can use his.

I can make a diagram of the dimensions if you like. It is straightforward, as long as you have the tools.

If you got the 4300kv ezrun brushless system, I would use the stock gearing, or even go as high as 67 spur and 22 pinion. The motor will be fine on the stock sized wheels and tyres.

turbo_rolla

08-15-2009, 10:08 PM

I'd probably be keen on a diagram for that mod too Timie ;) looks fairly straight forward, but may as well make use of your design if we can! i have changed my rear shocks back to stock as im sick of breaking screws, but am running my "hard" springs i got with the after market kit in them with a few spacers (i want mine fairly firm as i mostly jump it), so would be good to slap your little mod on it to give it that extra clearance :cool:

Vinboi

08-16-2009, 02:34 AM

Well i'm sure I will have the tools (Well atleast my school probably will) So I guess I can. Thanks in advance if you make a diagram, i'm sure turbo_rolla and I will appreciate it.

g_man

08-16-2009, 12:40 PM

Do you know any stores that sell the STD 50H? (Preferably in Australia)

Nah, they seem to be fairly rare. The only place I've seen one available is from the Japanese eBay seller "jr-rc" for about AUD $26 delivered. Square brand stuff is awesome, but it's getting hard to find for the DF02 unfortunately.

timie1

08-17-2009, 05:53 AM

Ok, I'm working on a diagram of that adaptor. I should have it up tomorrow. I have to go out to the garage to get the exact size of things I used but I ain't going out at 3 in the morning :P

JDT

08-17-2009, 07:45 AM

if you try a ball diff you will need to make sure it stays tight or you may burn it up, I get square stuff from champ rc in japan, they give a little discount over the square list price, they are awesome on tamiya spairs also, about half price for me on some stuff even less on others, It was $5.15 for a frame instead of $9.25 that tamiya usa was charging, $12 parts trees from tower(when they had them) are $4.69 or something. Shipping is EMS so its a little high but on the diff locker you would only be looking at a couple dollars as its such a small item.
Here is champs page, just email they shoot you a no hassle non binding quote on what you want. They make you pay the paypal fee also but thats usually just pennies on the dollar from what I have seen.

http://www.rc-champ.co.jp/Champ_International/International_index.htm

squares page, the diff locker is under tt 01 but its the same diff case

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.rc-square.com/&ei=P0KJStLHHZOONpvWud0E&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drc%2Bsquare%26hl%3Den

JDT

08-17-2009, 08:05 AM

forgot to mention, kits are even a good deal from champ, saving $100 or more on the kit makes it pretty easy to pay $62 shipping, especially when you save on the spairs and hop ups, one local guys saved almost $300 after shipping on what it would have cost him with tower, ebay and such on his df 03 ms with some limited edition tamiya hop ups, five stars and square aluminum and carbon fibre goodies. For example the df 03 ralley car the evo lancer, $195 AU dollars at champ vs $288 AU dollars at tower hobbies, some stuff is even worse, the new bronco on the cr 01 crawler kit $302 AU at champ vs $490 AU at tower!

Vinboi

08-17-2009, 08:18 AM

@timie1: Cheers, theres no rush - accuracy is probably more important to me :) So you can take all the time you need.

@JDT: I went to the rc champ website and its all in Japanese ;_;. Sadly, I cant understand it and when using google translation, doesnt help much more. Are there any DF02 hopups on that site? I could only find the DF02 kits...

JDT

08-17-2009, 10:01 AM

the link I gave details how to email to inquire about the costs, they don't sell gpm or yeah racing if you mean them hop ups, they usually stock most of the the square and tobee craft racing option parts for the df 02 as well as all the factory option parts.

Tobee crafts page is here

http://www3.kcn.ne.jp/~tobee/English.htm

make sure you are getting what you want. some of the tt 01 option parts will work also, think about what you want to do and then ask here as its kind tricky, for example the df 02 gear box joints listed 43110 are okay for the stock dog bones, tobee, square or gpm universals (cvds) but if you want to use the tamiya ones or a set of df 03 ones you need to get the tt 01 gear box joints

here is the df 02 square page for ya

http://209.85.225.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.rc-square.com/product/tamiya/ta_df02.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Drc%2Bsquare%26hl%3Den&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhjQSmIyubt7nCDQMe4iRrLXn4paXw

JDT

08-17-2009, 11:27 AM

forgot to mention, I think I paid a little over $18 us for the square diff locker from champ. Maybe all you aussies should pool up and order one big order to save on some shipping costs. Anyone with a df 03 has a ton of choices from these guys, they got five starts, xenon and several other companies that offer cool df 03 stuff.

timie1

08-17-2009, 01:34 PM

JDT, I understand that rc champ might have good prices, but, for me anyway, I couldn't buy from them. I HATE asking have you got this? Is this the bit? How much is this? etc. If they have the ability to launch a website that they know a good portion of their stuff will be sold to english speaking people, then they have the ability to put a few english words on their site. Maybe if they have to hire a translator to do it, they should still put the effort in. If you can email them and get responses in english, then they should have at least a quick description of the part and a price legible to english people, and the payment and buying process in english.

The Chinese can do it, I think the Japanese can as well. 25% of the world's population speak english. What other language on earth is that widely known? None!! 1.8% of the population speak Japanese. 25% english. Imagine the vastly larger audience they'd be selling to.
I can fully understand Vinboi's frustration with that site and google's translator.

Anyway, that's my absolutely pointless rant for the day done with, completely DF02 unrelated :D

JDT

08-17-2009, 02:20 PM

yeah its kinda a pain but to save that much money I will send an email, its actually easier than you make it sound unless you don't know what you want then I don't know how an in stock list would help with that, did you crusie around and look at those pictures of the stores, they got far to much stuff to be taking a picture of each and every little part, They would have more pictures of tamiya stuff than tower has for its entire warehouse, don't forget about kyosho, yokomo, hpi and hot bodies which would add probably another million or so pictures lol.

timie1

08-17-2009, 02:51 PM

Alright you people, here is the diagram I've constructed.
It's not to exact scale, but it's close enough. The dimensions are all 100% accurate though.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/c7903745764147

Any questions, just ask.

Enjoy

g_man

08-17-2009, 06:25 PM

Nice one, thanks Timie. This is better than using PC motherboard standoffs to extend the shock shaft!! ;)

timie1

08-17-2009, 08:48 PM

Oh those blasted motherboard standoffs. I was lucky enough, or maybe it's unlucky enough, to be given about 3 dozen standoffs to me from the local computer store. I get the stupid things home and the thread is completely different. There is no way the shock shafts will thread into the standoffs I have. I felt horribly jibbed, and I didn't even pay anything for them, however I did feel like a clot asking for such a strange thing.
I decided there has to be a better way of getting ride height.

With the adaptor, it fits perfectly fine on both the front and rear arms, so I'd advise to make 4 per vehicle. Also, as I said, you can flip them to get more options, well, the front ones on mine are flipped so I have the shock mounted closer to the centre of the car. This gives loads of ride height, too much in fact, so I took all the pre-load spacers out and now the car sits about right, but with the shock far in on the suspension arm, it's effectively a lot softer sprung. On the back,.........well, the photo on page 156 shows how I have that setup. When I say flip the adaptor, just imagine it as an "L" lying on it's side. When I 'flip' it, the L becomes inverted, with the vertical part on the left. Get Hong to show you if you don't know what I mean, but I'm sure you will, you being the engineer :D

If you can't fabricate these, then I can get some made up for you, or anyone else who wants them.
Oh and yeah, the ball stud will thread into the 7/64" hole. Just put the ball stud into the tamiya tool and turn away. The hole size NEEDS TO BE EXACTLY 7/64 - (sorry for using both metric and imperial. I'd rather use metric myself, but in some instances the size doesn't exist in metric). I've tried other ones, and anything smaller and the ball stud snaps when trying to self thread it in. Anything bigger and it is too loose. Perhaps with steel, and not aluminium, you may need to drill a slightly larger hole, what with steel being harder than alu, but if you use steel you're on your own :D

Vinboi

08-18-2009, 01:40 AM

Thanks for the diagram timie1~ I'll printing off a copy and will start work tomorrow.

Today while just bashing around, I dunno how i did it, but i broke one of the rear suspensions (The metal pole thing just snapped in half) I can't really fix it, so now ive got a reason to get new shocks. The problem is, I dunno where to buy the oil for these shocks. Does anyone have a website that sells 70mm and 100-110mm shocks + oil for them? I'd prefer to buy all of that at once, than pay huge shipping costs of im buying overseas.

EDIT: Whats a good brand of shock oil (I'm looking at the RCmart site as we speak) and what 'weight' should I get? I'm really confused, never knew there was such variety o_O

Also, do I need 2 or 1 of the Universals cupjoint sets if i want to just put universals on the front?
Site: http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-tt01-tamiya-joint-universal-shaft-tt01df02-53790-p-16257.html

g_man

08-18-2009, 05:50 AM

i broke one of the rear suspensions (The metal pole thing just snapped in half)

You broke the shock shaft?! :eek: Usually they just bend, in which case you can usually bend them back so they're pretty much straight again ;)

EDIT: Whats a good brand of shock oil

I just go to Big W and get 1L of Valvoline "Super HPO 30" Monograde SAE 30 motor oil. About the right consistency & MUCH cheaper than proper damper oil. Make yourself a pouring spout by drilling an appropriately sized hole in the cap for one of those 4mm threaded/barbed dripper line fittings & put a short length (few cm) of dripper line or nitro fuel hose on the end.

Also, do I need 2 or 1 of the Universals cupjoint sets if i want to just put universals on the front?

Those are for the Tamiya universals. One pack = one pair of drive cups, so you need one pack for just the front.

Vinboi

08-18-2009, 06:48 AM

Yeah i dunno how i broke it. Just went out for a run and when I got the car back I realised the suspension spring was missing - I found the holder thing further down the road. It just snapped in half, o_o.

Ok thanks, so I'll just get 1 packet of the cupjoin things...

Thanks for the info

g_man

08-18-2009, 06:50 AM

timie, 3D model of your adapter using the dimensions you provided: (yeah, I was bored tonight :rolleyes:)

89353

Btw, it's mass is 1.64 grams.

Vinboi

08-18-2009, 05:07 PM

Very nice. btw, im thinking of just cutting a sort of rectangle square shape for it first. whats its dimensions?

timie1

08-18-2009, 06:38 PM

Gman, that sure beats my diagram :P
That looks pretty good according to the real life thing I have in front of me. The top holes, in that diagram, look like the outer one is a bit high. Can you lower it slightly?
At any rate, if you can make that adaptor to the same high spec that you can render a 3D diagram, that will totally blow my workmanship out of the water. Guess I'll have to start saving for a computer controlled laser cutter :D

Vinboi, and Gman for that matter, shock oil is silicone. Motor oil is not. You may get lucky and never prematurely ruin the seals (o-rings) in your shock, but from what I've heard, motor oil will speed up the process of wearing the o-rings out. Also, silicone shock oil does not change viscosity depending on the ambient temperature. If you lived where it got cold during the winter, like here in Canada, you'd see that first hand. In summer, when I've used some castor oil because I wanted the oil really thick, the shocks worked and provided some good damping. However, come winter when the temp dropped to below freezing and all the way down to -37°C this last winter, the shocks stiffened up so much that it was like the car was running without any shocks at all. This happened JUST below freezing, I'm not crazy enough to go spend 20 minutes outside when it's -37. The same happens in really hot summer. The viscosity will change and get more runny.

I know motor oil is a LOT cheaper than shock oil, but shock oil does work better for what it's being used for. For what it's worth, I use 60wt oil in my DF02. The brand I have is Trinity. It cost $4 for 76mL, I think. It doesn't say the bottle size on the bottle, just some code, and I think it's 76ml.
That does an awful lot of buggy shocks before I'll have to buy more.

I would think any shock oil is the same quality, as long as it's silicone. What does your LHS stock? Buy from them, it does afterall help to keep them in business, and it can't be much more than buying a 100g parcel from Hong Kong when you factor shipping in.

g_man

08-18-2009, 09:58 PM

Yeah I did think about the changing-viscosity-with-temperature issue, that's why I got the "monograde" oil which I think means the viscosity doesn't change (under normal operating conditions)? Not sure.

You guys in Canada would have more issues with temperature extremes than us Aussies I'd think! ;)

I think my shocks have silicone o-rings and I think motor oil doesn't affect those. Even if it does, you can buy a mixed pack of standard rubber o-rings from Bunnings (AU hardware store) for around AU $2, which has a heap of standard rubber ones in it, so even if they gradually perish from the motor oil, there's another 50-60 o-rings waiting in the sidelines... :)

Having said all that, I would prefer to use silicone oil. I just have to find it for a price I'm willing to pay (here in AU, the LHS's can be a rip-off).

Actually, now that I think of it, doesn't the DF02 kit come with standard mineral oil (not silicone?)... How much harder would the motor oil be on the seals compared to the non-silicone DF02-kit oil?

timie1

08-19-2009, 12:20 AM

Yeah I don't much like any of Canada's weather. I grew up in New Zealand, and the weather there is so much nicer all year round. In Canada it's way too cold in winter, and that lasts 9 months give or take, then 3 months of warm weather, with 1 month of too hot, like high 30's, and sometimes, but rarely 40's.
All up, 2 months of the year is just right - certainly out west in the prairies of Canada it is.
So you're right, you Aussies won't have the same issues.

I don't think the DF02 kits come with mineral oil. Mine came with Tamiya's silicone oil, which they have a different way of measuring viscosity. In some respects it's easier, in other respects it's more confusing. They have things like #400 and such on theirs, meaning it's 400 times thicker than water.
Makes sense. BUT, and it's a big but, 99% of the RC industry uses the "wt" way. Everybody talks about "XX"wt in their setups, so in my mind it's easier to say I'll have XXwt, rather than think "well that's great. Now what do I get in Tamiya's range that is comparable."

IMO, the stock DF02 needs a lot thicker oil when used with the stock springs and shocks. Most kits come with 25wt or so, so that is why I got 60wt. I like the 60 in the DF02. If you're after some softer springs for the front, which the DF02 definitely needs, look for Team Associated RC10B4 front springs. They fit the DF02 shocks and are way softer. Now it actually abosrbs undulations as opposed to hopping over them. I find the back springs are ok when used with 60wt oil.

If you can get o-rings that cheap I see your point about replacing them should they wear out. The cheapest I've seen oil for is the Losi range. If I remember right, a pack of 5 bottles, all various weights, for about CAD$15. It's good if you want to experiment with different weights.

Vinboi

08-19-2009, 01:42 AM

Actually, now that I think of it, doesn't the DF02 kit come with standard mineral oil (not silicone?)... How much harder would the motor oil be on the seals compared to the non-silicone DF02-kit oil?

I have no idea. I got a small bottle of "Tamiya Damper Oil SOFT" and the liquid is a yellow colour (kinda like cooking oil). And what does it mean by "NET 20c.c." at the back? [/Quote]

I know motor oil is a LOT cheaper than shock oil, but shock oil does work better for what it's being used for. For what it's worth, I use 60wt oil in my DF02. The brand I have is Trinity. It cost $4 for 76mL, I think. It doesn't say the bottle size on the bottle, just some code, and I think it's 76ml.
That does an awful lot of buggy shocks before I'll have to buy more.

I would think any shock oil is the same quality, as long as it's silicone. What does your LHS stock? Buy from them, it does afterall help to keep them in business, and it can't be much more than buying a 100g parcel from Hong Kong when you factor shipping in.

Well since i snapped the suspension shaft on one of the rears, I'll have to purchase a new set of shocks (I'm getting a front set just for the hell of it). The shocks at my LHS area ripoff. $120 for a set? as if! I bought a set for around $30 haha. I saw the Trinity brand 60wt damper oil while browsing RCmart, so i'm going to buy 2 bottles (So i wont be buying more oil for a long time)

Vinboi

08-24-2009, 02:31 AM

UPDATE:

Problem! I've broken the thing on the chassis that attaches the rear arm (The one of the left rear) but it only has fractured, and not completely ripped off. The U-shaped frame is also a bit bent, and I have no idea how to bend it back.

I've tried some regular household superglue, but that doesnt seem to bond that well. I was wondering what I should do about it. Should plastic weld it? or try some epoxy?

_Will_

08-24-2009, 06:03 AM

Hi guys I am noobie here

I have a 2007 Gravel Hound kit (build myself), with all stock apart from the bearings (which I upgraded at the start). I am looking for a nice set of wheels for ON ROAD use, with black hubs and a nice tyre design. Ideally they should last a long time and be reasonably cheap (under £20 (under $40)), and from a UK retailer.

Can anyone suggest anything to me?

Many thanks,

Will.

Vinboi

08-24-2009, 06:58 AM

g_man

08-24-2009, 07:02 AM

Problem! I've broken the thing on the chassis that attaches the rear arm

That seems to be a weak point on the DF02. I think you're probably up for a new chassis. It's very hard to repair it and restore enough strength.

I broke the same thing the day we shot the video (linked a couple of pages back). My rear universal joint kept coming out, and I eventually realised the rear arm mount (plus some of the bottom of the diff case) was coming off...

Vinboi

08-24-2009, 07:25 AM

That seems to be a weak point on the DF02. I think you're probably up for a new chassis. It's very hard to repair it and restore enough strength.

I broke the same thing the day we shot the video (linked a couple of pages back). My rear universal joint kept coming out, and I eventually realised the rear arm mount (plus some of the bottom of the diff case) was coming off...

Aw. I just ordered from RCmart (I just checked and its out of stock anyway), and I don't think they stock it anywhere near me.

Oh well I'll try and fix it tomorrow. If all else fails, I'll probably have to spend some more money and get a new chassis. Where did you buy your chassis from? I'd be hopeful if it was somewhere from Australia.

g_man

08-24-2009, 07:52 AM

Where did you buy your chassis from? I'd be hopeful if it was somewhere from Australia.

I bought two from here (http://www.rchobbies.com.au/store/product_info.php?products_id=32963) not long ago. Call them first to make sure they have stock.

Vinboi

08-24-2009, 08:11 AM

Wow damn shipping costs more than the product :(, Oh well I'll give em a call tomorrow, as its too late now.

Thanks for the advice g_man.

_Will_

08-24-2009, 08:36 AM

I dunno about you but what I'm planning to do is to wear out the stock ones, and use those as slicks (when all the spikes have gone flat :P). When that happens, I'll purchase a set of off road ones again, and this process will go on and on...

EDIT: Realised you wanted black-coloured wheels, sorry :( ... well maybe you could spray paint em black hahaha :D

Yeah it's an idea but they would look so ugly I think... I saw a video on YouTube of a guy who had 1/12th or something wheels, for road, on it, they were very big, which increased the ride height (the weak point of the Df02 IMO), and also looked great! Any idea of anything like this?? Maybe I should phone the shop I bought it from and ask them?

For example: Would this fit if I bought it?

http://www.modelsinmotion.co.uk/product.asp?productid=18816&catCode=488&tamiya=258

turbo_rolla

08-24-2009, 08:03 PM

They will fit Will, but might look a little silly as they are really small - i've run my buggy with the wheels i've got on my TT01 drift car on and it looks quite crap to be honest. Can put some photos up to show if anyone wants :D

Im gonna do something like vinboi and just wear down the Proline's i've got on there now right down, then buy another set of wheels for the offroad stuff. Either that, or maybe 1/8 scale rims?? I think the picture below is with 1/8 wheels??? Will post up a pic with 1/10 wheels later to show the difference ;)

timie1

08-25-2009, 02:25 AM

I'm afraid there isn't much option for running with road tyres.
This really sucks if you ask me, because most buggies, especially bashing ones, are mainly used on road.
About the only option if you want to stick to buggy wheels is:

Proline Dirt Hawgs I and III http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU13&P=7 and http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU14&P=7
Pros:
Good grip on road
Mediocre offroad but make a good transition tyre with mixed running.
Tall profile = increased ride height.
Soft compound = longer life
Come with good foam and a pretty proline decal.
Made in USA
Will fit standard tamiya df02 wheels with CA glue.

Cons:
They aren't a true on-road tread pattern
Mediocre offroad.
Tall profile makes them a little skittery at super high speed.

The other option is Traxxas Anaconda 2.2" tyres http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRLN9&P=7 and http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRLP0&P=7

Pros
Nice tread pattern look the part for onroad.
Lower profile so it is more suited to onroad driving.
Less ballooning.
Come with foam.
Will fit standard tamiya df02 rims with CA glue.

Cons
Harder compound than proline ones = wear out fast.
Being harder compound, grip is not as good as prolines.
Noisier than prolines.
Shallow tread, and combined with inferior compound, wears out fast.
Foam works, but is considerably softer than proline foam.
Made in Taiwan.

There you have it, that's about your only 2 options as of now. There used to be more, proline used to make a road hawg in buggy size http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU03&P=7 and I do have a set. They wear very well. I got mine about 6 years ago, and I still have them. If you can search your LHS for stock, they may have them at the back of their shelves. I've been into a LHS recently and found one pair sitting there, and they were old but unopened. So, you never know.

I'm pretty sure most buggy wheels will fit as long as they have a 12mm hex. So that rules out any Losi, Team Associated, Duratrax and so on. I believe Kyosho use a 12mm hex, and so do Tamiya on all their buggies, and Team Academy used to, don't know if they still do. Other Chinese ones from RCMart use the 12mm hex, and they come with tyres already mounted. forgetful duck on this forum has/had a set. I would show you right now, but RCmarts website is down.

IMO your best bet is to use tamiya wheels and dye them, or paint them black, then mount your tyre with glue. Any of the buggy wheels tamiya make should fit. The DF03 rims are nicer and they fit fine.

Vinboi

08-25-2009, 05:11 AM

Aw man.. RCmart is down again? 'Twas down in the morning, then after school (around 4 hours ago) It was up again.. hmm..

I was thinking of getting some dirt hawgs after the stock pairs have worn out. Does anyone know if RCmart sells these?

JDT

08-25-2009, 08:29 AM

the hpi v grooves are a nice alternative for a streat tire

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXM973&P=7

just under 3.5 inches

they can go on any of the hpi truck rims and fit without problem just make sure you get two sets of rear rims

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXM875&P=7

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWX57&P=7

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEWZ9&P=7

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPYU3&P=7

these imex road tires are fun if you want to maintain some height for big bashing on cement and asphalt

they are x tra fat and an inch or so taller than the v grooves above

I am not sure if you get Imex over there or not but the HPI parts should be easy to find, dinball/rcmart has hpi stuff also.

another option is the hpi super star wheels

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCEA1&P=ML

on which you can mount four of the rear buggy hawgs

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDU13&P=7