Need suggestions for Savage upgrades ($300 max.)

[marctroy]

My wife decided that she wants a monster truck so I'm going to buy one for her one as a present. I build and race 1/10 Touring cars (NTC3v2) and 1/8 buggys (Kanai II) so I don't have a lot of time to build a truck for her nor am I really familiar with them. I'm thinking of the H.P.I. Savage 25 RTR (although I have extra FM radio equipment) just so she can take it out of the box and have fun (after a proper break-in, of course!).

What I need to know is: what are the necessary (?) upgrades for the Savage 25 RTR and I'd like to keep them under $300. I've heard about adding 2 bevel gears per diff, changing the gas tank, etc. but I'd like some other opinions. The truck willl be mostly used for bashing and some racing (asphalt and ramps, minimal dirt - we live in Manhattan).

Thanks,
Marc

P.S. Anyone interested in selling or trading a truck for a Touring car (electric X-Ray, 414 Mk II, F201 or Nitro NTC3), H.P.I. Minis (electric Pros and Nitros) email me at marctroy@aol.com (http://) .

[kitty]

Just off the top of my head, and in no particular order:
receiver hump pack
throttle/brake linkage mod
failsafe, failsafe, failsafe
Ofna Monster Pirate servo saver arm mod (< $20)
A better pipe. The composite one is crap. (HPI ribbed that comes with the SS kit is great)
HPI dual disc brake kit (~$20)
Silicone fluid to replace the junk motor oil-type stuff in the shocks (~1/2 bottle will fill all eight shocks)
Silicone fluid for the diffs, at least 5k weight.
A better steering servo. Hitec 645MG works great. ~$48
Center skid plate
Ofna clutch shim kit. Toss the brass spacer in front of the clutch bell. It wears too quickly.
If you're good at ungluing tires, do so and ditch the stock foams for some Trinity 3-piece foams. Or just get a set of street tires and some Pro-Line or RPM rims seeing that it'll be a pavement pounder.

That's all I can think of right offhand. If you already have radio equipment and the time to build, the SS kit is less expensive and comes with a tuned pipe. The newer version comes with the same 3-shoe clutch as the RTR and HD dogbones.

If I can think of anything else, I'll toss it in here later, but the above list should do you pretty well. I think your wife is going to have massive fun and I like her choice to get a monster truck =)

[kodiak kid]

I agree with all of the above, I drive my 3 savages in some really rough alaskan terrain...Mods I have done to mine:

spider gear mod (only one of the trucks, but have enough parts for if and when the dif fails)

reciever hump back back (two thumbs up on that one :$40)

Ofna Picco .26 P3 ($179, and worth every penny, especially if racing)

aluminim fuel tank guard and aluminim fuel tank posts (A must if cathing lots of air)

and a motor savers air filter $20

oh yeah, and any tuned pipe, like kitty said, the stocker is crap.

Kitty, got a link for the ofna clutch shim kit???

[Cain]

I have seen a lower profile chassis plates used by racers local here. Seems to really help.

If you are not fully set on the Savage, another vehicle that looks really good is the Tamiya TNX. I got to see one of these race in the Unlimited class and it was bone stock from what I understand other than the tires and it MORE than held its own. Lots of power and handled extremely well.

[marctroy]

Hi "Kodiak Kid" and "Kitty",

I picked-up the Savavge 25 RTR (thanks for the advice, Cain, but my LHS doesn't stock parts for Tamiya) yesterday for my wife. Based on your suggestions I've already done the following:
receiver hump pack - had it
throttle/brake linkage mod
failsafe (and Racer's Edge fuel filter) - had them
Ofna Monster Pirate servo saver arm mod (< $20)
HPI ribbed pipe $31
HPI dual disc brake kit $15
Silicone shock fluid - had it
Silicone diff fluid - had it
A better steering servo - had it
Center skid plate ($18-New Era)
Hot Bodied Heat Sink Engine Plate $31

Ofna Monster Pirate servo saver arm mod (< $20) i is this just a simple swap? Do you have the part number?

If you're good at ungluing tires, do so and ditch the stock foams for some Trinity 3-piece foams (are the Trinity foams ONLY for off-road use or should I use them with street tires as well?

Or just get a set of street tires and some Pro-Line or RPM rims seeing that it'll be a pavement pounder. Do you suggest the new 40 Series street tires (lower profile) and should I still use the Trinity foams with them?

Ofna clutch shim kit. Toss the brass spacer in front of the clutch bell. It wears too quickly. Any idea of part number/LHS was stumped

throttle/brake linkage mod I don't have a clue; could you please explain?

I also took the liberty of also doing the following:
Kodiak Kid's suggested spider gear mod (Savage Gear sets and Kyosho bevel shafts $18), GH aluminum cooling head ($36), Lundsford's Titanium turnbuckles and hinge-pins ($57), MotorSaver air filter ($17)

We haven't discussed suspension. Should I consider changing the shocks (other than oil)? What about springs?? Since I'm running under budget (which is perfectly fine), should I consider the New Era front & rear skid plates and gas tank protector? I'm not a great believer in aluminum suspension components (shock towers,control arms, etc.) since they bend and don't flex and return (hopefully) to their original position, but shouls I consider the GH billet aluminum diff case? Is it necessary or just "bling bling"?

Kitty, I really appreciate your help and, as soon as I give it to my wife, I'm sure she will, as well!

[kodiak kid]

As far as the shocks go, I have the stock ones on and I have litterally launched my car well over 15ft in the air and landed on concrete, not even a hiccup, so I'd leave the shocks alone. The gas tank protector is a must, I snapped 2 tanks in 1/2 before the protector...after the protected, I have had much worse crashes and it is still in tact...I also recommend the aluminum fuel tank posts as well, with those, your whole fuel tank area should be golden...only caution is TRHEAD LOCK...use it on all screws fuel the fuel tank parts...trust me on this :-) And since you are going to do the spider gear mod, you will be thankful, I blew out my dif yesterday...so, I did the spider mod on truck #2, just waiting for truck #3's dif to go :D

[DT-10 basher]

with the 4 spider diff mod, can you just use HPI's spider gears and use a dremel drill to notch the bars

[doesgo]

with the 4 spider diff mod, can you just use HPI's spider gears and use a dremel drill to notch the bars
Yes!

[doesgo]

Hey Kodiak, what brand of fuel tank protector and posts are you using and where did you get them? Cost?

[doesgo]

marctroy,
I'd skip the aluminum skids, the stock Savage plastic is awesome stuff. I've only broken one skid in 18 months of abuse, and that center skid you have would have prevented my skid from breaking. I'd also skip the aluminum diff cases myself.

And I agree with kodiak, keep the stock shocks and get springs to suit your driving style.

[kitty]

Hey again, marctroy! I read your PM before visiting the forums, so my 2-page reply is there.

One note about the spider gears: when you get them, inspect them closely. There have been a few bad batches in which one or both of the spider gears weren't moulded very well or the metal used wasn't up to par. They should not look like pot metal or brassy-looking; if they're a bit darker, they should be the "better" metal. Look closely at the teeth of the gears. If the tops of the teeth are more rounded, send them back. They should be a bit more flat. Same thing goes with the top of the gears if you lie them face-up on a table. Look at the holes. If they have jaggy edges, they're not the good ones. Someone on "that other board" you mentioned posted some comparison pictures of the good gears next to the bad ones, but if you look at them closely you should be able to tell what you have. I went through all the gears at the LHS nearest me and showed them which ones to send in for replacement. They had one bag with both spider gears that were bad, and one bag with one good and one bad gear.

[marctroy]

Hi Kitty,

Thanks for the follow-up and the advice. Here's what I've been able to accomplish on the Savage so far:
Ofna mini failsafe
Hitec HS-645MG servo
Reedy hump pack/NiMh 1100 mAh
H.P.I. Reverse Module w/former steering servo
Golden Horizon cooling head
H.P.I. tuned pipe/ringed
Racer's Edge fuel filter
MotorSaver air filter
H.P.I. dual disc brakes
H.P.I. idler gear/48T - lightweight
H.P.I. drive gear/32T - lightweight
MIP CDVs (front & rear)
H.P.I. aluminum wheel hubs/locking
New Era center skid plate
Integy gas tank protector
Integy aluminum tube bumper

We took it out this weekend and my wife began the break-in procedure. 1st tank she let it idle till it reached about 240 degrees and she would shut it down and let it cool at BDC (about 8 times). She ran the 2nd and 3rd tanks in a lazy figure 8 pattern at no more than 1/4 throttle, stopping 3 times per tank to let the engine cool down (at BDC). 4th tank was run with 3 - 4 second bursts at 1/4 throttle maximum. It was actually great since this was her first experience driving and she knew she couldn't exceed 1/4 throttle so she was able to get a lot of "wheel time" in. At no time did the temperature exceed 280 degrees (RayTech temp gun) and there were no fuel leaks. When we got home I added Marvel Myster Oil to the carb and cylinder and gave it a couple of turns with the RotoStart. We'll continue (and hopefully finish) break-in next week.

Now I'd like to begin work on the diffs but, before I do - I have an opportunity to purchase "Spider" or "Spyder" diffs (made by Ofna) with 8 bevel gears. Have you heard of them and what's your recommendation. If not, do you suggest adding H.P.I. or Ofna bevel gears. Does your PM refer to H.P.I. or Ofna's gears?

Kitty, thanks again for all of your help. I hope to get your response soon...

[kitty]

My PM referred to the HPI gears. Some have tried the Ofna gears, only to find that they are of poor quality and grenaded on them.

Looking over your list, I noticed the GH cooling head. Have you installed it yet? Personally I think the stock head does a pretty good job. I live where it's been in the upper 90s a lot lately. I did have to richen my engine up a bit last week (temp was around 98, heat index of 108), so I may go with a Nova head before too long for Summer running. The GH head is nice, but from what I've heard, doesn't make any big difference in cooling compared to the stock head.

Y'all are doing a decent break-in. The figure-8s will help seat the gears in the diffs. Once she gets to the high-speed pass part of the break in, look for the big grin on her face the first time it kicks into second gear. I remember mine pretty well. You would have thought I'd just had botox injections or something due to the long-lasting big grin on my face!

[kodiak kid]

doesgo, I got them from the savage central store... www.**************.com. they were a little pricier then I wanted, but worth every penny. the posts were like $12 and the protecter $14 or something like that...definatly a good investment!

[marctroy]

Has anyone had any experience with Ofna's 8 gear Spider diff that I was referring to?

[doesgo]

Thanks Kodiak! I haven't broken too many fuel tank posts, but when you have to buy an entire parts tree to get one fuel tank posts, it gets frustrating.

[kodiak kid]

I only use HPI gears, They seam to hold up for me...on a side note, earlier you asked about shocks...here is what I have to say about that one...Keep the stock ones!!! I just did a trade with someone for another savage and it had 8 integy shocks w/ resevoir...so far after 2 tanks, I broke 2 of them...like, bent..IN HALF...definatly not a good investment...not im my opinion anyway...Just a heads up!

note: if someone else has had good luck with them, great, as I am not bashing anyone that has them :D

[marctroy]

Thanks everyone for replying. One of the things that everyone agrees on is keeping the stock Savage shocks and I will. I intend to buy an additional set on ebay and use them to experiment with different viscosities of shock fluid. With the additional set I can do a "quick change" and immediately see what the effect is.

Almost everything that I've done so far is with the intention of making the Savage bulletproof so that my wife can enjoy it (although I'm having a blast with it, as well) while I'm on the track racing my Associated NTC3v2 touring car. These Ofna 8 spider gear, metal housing diffs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5910892560&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT are really tempting since they seem to be a cure for one of the Savage's Achille's Heel, but I won't make the $70 investment without getting some feedback on them. Has anyone had any experience with them?

[kodiak kid]

That actually looks like a good deal. IF you figure in a new dif ($30) aluminum housing ($20 or so), and the parts to do the job, that is right up there with actual cost. I am waiting to see if one of my 4 spider gear mods fail...If they do, I might just have to invest in that :)

[kitty]

At 70 bucks a pop for those diffs, I think that's going overboard. The main weakness in the Savage diffs is the side flex of the gear box halves. You can get those in aluminum and they're cheaper than the aluminum diff cups. It's also good to shim the diffs to get a decent fit to further prevent movement that will wreck the pinion gear.

Someone on "that other forum whose links are now blocked on RCZ for some reason" has been testing his Savage using diff cups from the Hot Bodies Lightning buggy. They're a direct fit, but have a metal washer-type thingy built into the "bottom" (as you look down into the cup while building the diff). So far he says that they are working great. The metal bit helps keep the gears from digging into the cups, apparently.

I think that a combination of using the Lightning cups along with aluminum gearbox halves and shimming the diff assembly inside sounds like *the* ticket. When my current 4-spider diffs wear out, I'm going to try that route. Thankfully, though, my diffs are holding up as-is with just the 4-spider gear mod after nearly two gallons.

<edit>
Duh. Part numbers help, don't they? The HB Lightning diff cup is part number c8019. Using them requires changing the side bearings to 8x16x5mm ones (two per diff).

Here's a list of where you can get them:
ehobbies (http://search.ehobbies.com/?cat=Radio+Control&subcat=All&mfg=HBS&price=by+price&text=c8019&int=1&ext=1&x=5&y=12) $4.75
Stormer Hobbies (https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?pn=HOTC8019) $4.50
Lightning Hobby (http://www.lightninghobby.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=20478) $4.45
Also available at Atomic (http://www.atomicmotorsports.com) but I don't have a direct link to the cups there.
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