View Full Version : Midwest's ARR PT-109 ...
... just arrived! :D
It's a very nicely made model.
http://www.fototime.com/8091883AAC8697F/orig.jpg
Hydro Junkie
07-24-2004, 01:20 AM
Nice lookin' boat. There are a few things missing in the pic, however. There isn't any water, bow wave or wake. Enquiring minds want to know, how fast is it(scale or rediculously fast), how does it handle(scale like or like a zigzag racer), what is it driven by and what type radio does it need, and how many channels. As I said, ENQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol, here:
http://www.midwestproducts.com/PT109.htm
:)
bugfanatic
07-24-2004, 09:10 AM
I saw that Midwest at the last RC show & thought it was pretty cool. I really would like to see more!
Hydro Junkie
07-24-2004, 04:27 PM
Looks like Midwest did there home work on this one, but I STILL HAVEN'T SEEN ANY WATER!!!!!!!!
I STILL HAVEN'T SEEN ANY WATER!!!!!!!!
Didn't watch the video? :p
Hydro Junkie
07-25-2004, 07:37 PM
Yes, I watched the video. It doesn't really tell anything. Can't even tell how fast it is really going. IMHO, manufacturer's videos are only to get you to buy, not give much in the lines of performance, hop ups, or really anything else. So I'll say it again, ENQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW. WE WANT THE REAL STORY, ALL THE DIRT ON THE BOAT. Is it hard to get at everything, does it have all the radio gear mounts, is there a location for the batteries or are they just thrown in? None of this was mentioned in the video
OK, I installed the radio today and set it into the swimming pool. With the rudder throw adjusted as per the manual, it has extremely sluggish steering. I could not execute a 180* turn in my pool, which is 20' wide! There is an adjustment due on that one.
The power, which I could only test briefly, seems very adequate for scale running. Reverse throttle stops it on a dime, which is handy in a concrete swimming pool with walls! It also sent a lot of water up the stuffing boxes into the hull.
It didn't come with provisions for water cooling but I think I will be adding it in the future.
Tonight I started some 'detailing'. Got the camoflage laid down.
I am finally at the point I feel I need to say something about this particular Midwest product. It is nothing like I had expected it to be, quality wise.
I bought the Midwest ARR Coast Guard lifeboat and it is a jewel. Superbly built; finished; scale fittings; and just total quality. The opposite is true of the Midwest PT boat. :(
First off, the fittings on this boat look like they were made by school children. They are not scale, but instead stand waaaay-off scale. They are really just ridiculously bad. The guns are not even close to scale and are made out of wood sticks. The barrel on the rear Oerlikan was even still rectangular! I had to sand it round! THe .50 cal guns are again, totally inaccurate.
The life preservers are 1/16 sheet just cut into profiles of life preservers. The deck vents were merely glossy stickers, on top of flat paint yet! The instrument panel is a glossy sticker, not even close to scale, and in the wrong place. The steering wheel is inaccurate. The searchlight is inaccurate. The compressed air bottles on the torpedo tubes are just wood dowels that were turned down in one spot. Still look like dowels...
Inside, the prop shafts were not lubed and are also carbon steel. They rusted after running the boat in my pool for 5 minutes. One motor would not even turn over when I tried to power it up a few days later. The rudders also had no lube on the shafts. Not to mention the hardware and linkage is about as cheap as possible. The props are plastic, and molded with a built in wobble. The wood formers inside the boat have not been sealed with varnish. The motors to stuffing tubes are grossly misaligned. This, on a $509 dollar model. In contrast, the Coast Guard model is $400 and easily 10 times the quality.
If I had never bought the Coast Guard boat, and bought the PT boat I would never buy another Midwest ARR again. But since I did buy the Coast Guard boat, I expected other Midwest ARR boats to be of equal quality. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
I strongly recommend against buying the Midwest ARR PT boat.
Hydro Junkie
08-21-2004, 08:16 PM
Sounds like you have a winter project on your hands :) Since you have the hull work started, I assume you are going to change all that's either bad or not working(props and shafts for starters). Keep us posted, it might be a decent model for those who want to do much of the install work themselves :) Just to be curious, are you leaving the 37mm on the bow? I know many of the late war boats mounted a 40mm Bofor on the bow and stern(replacing the 20mm). Could this be an option?
Hydro,
Yes, it has turned into a project boat. I think it is a good start, but I believe Midwest needs to either fix the shortcomings at their factory or drop the price by $200 and market this boat as "ready to finish".
I have already changed the boat from the PT 109 livery and so a 40mm Bofors will in fact be going on the bow. I have removed all the rudders; linkages; propshafts; and motors. I sanded the carbon flakes off the prop shafts from where they had been overheated while cutting the threads for the props. I then polished the shafts using 240; 600; and crocus cloth strips. Then I lubed them with Prathers cable grease. I also removed the hard grease that had been packed into the oiling tubes (that was a strange one, no lube on the shafts and the oiling tubes plugged with almost a wax like grease). I realigned the motors as best as I could and now the motors/props turn over easily and my ESC stays cool. Before, the heatsinks got so hot after 1 minute run time I could not touch them. I lubed the rudder shafts and installed them using new stainless steel screws with socket heads. Their design is funky and I will have to modify it also to remove inherent binding of the control rod. But, it's getting better at least. Lastly, I replaced all electrical connectors with Power Poles.
I'm anxious to run the boat in open water. Over the winter, I will strip the insides and seal all the wood. I need to install acetate in the window openings to prevent splash water from coming inside the hull. Of all the windows in this boat, they managed to only close two side windows with acetate. I have found a source for scale models of the Oerlikan and Bofors guns but am still searching for 1/24 scale Brownings.
My PT is going to be a 'hybrid' of several PT's. Not modeled in true scale after any real PT boat. I have already hybridized it by combining camoflage patterns. This way, it will be 'my' PT boat. ;)
Thanks for asking. :)
Hydro Junkie
08-22-2004, 04:54 PM
Nice to hear a "NEVER SAY DIE" outlook :) You do realize WE WANT PROGRESS PICS :D If you could swing it, as you go, list some of your sources for parts, so others can follow your lead :)
I changed the props over to Raeboesch brass and installed acetate windows in the superstructure. I'm still waiting for the scale guns from HR Products to arrive. In the meantime I got some time in open water. Even though the prop shafts and rudder shafts are heavily greased I still got a few ounces of water in the hull. What can I do to fix that?
http://www.fototime.com/28E47F0F7E69DEE/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/D0A07A414BB740A/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/14FFC1A47AA8B69/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/6F062D972BFA95D/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/EF5A71FDD9E31E6/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/540E856F62C4CA8/standard.jpg
Hydro Junkie
09-19-2004, 08:23 PM
I like the crewmen added, gives the boat a more realistic look, though I've never seen a PT running with the front third of the hull that far out of the water. If I remember right, the all grey was used only in the European Theater. The camo gives it a much more Pacific look to it. Nice looking updates
Thanks! So, you think I need to add some weight up front?
http://www.ptboats.org/pti-info-images/p10-pt363-p.jpg
http://www.ptboats.org/pti-info-images/p10-pt557-p.jpg
http://www.ptboats.org/pti-info-images/p10-pt105-p.jpg
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mandm/stpt1.jpg
Some photos show the hull riding with the front 3rd out of the water. I don't know which is supposed to be the accurate way for it to ride.
Hydro Junkie
09-19-2004, 11:15 PM
The bow wave is clearly visible at about 1/3rd the way back, but from what I could see, the bow was never as high in the real boat pics. My advice would be to get everything done in your rebuild and then see how it rides. If it's still bow high, I'd add just enough weight to bring the bow down to about half as far back. Most of what I saw in the real boat pics had the boat up just aft of where the stem rounds down into the kiel. Just remember, it's your boat, so the final word is yours
Thanks! So, you think I need to add some weight up front?
OK, I got weight up front! LOL! :D
I built the HR Products 40mm Bofors gun today and in fact it is missing a piece so after it arrives it will be slightly heavier still, heh. It is "white metal" and weighs a good amount.
http://www.fototime.com/6FA2D16F504F28C/standard.jpg
*
http://www.fototime.com/F595DB9C4EE3EC2/standard.jpg
Hydro Junkie
10-01-2004, 03:57 AM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did that set up really go on the PT, or is it a heavy ship's gun?
Yes, lots of PT's had the Bofors on board.
Hydro Junkie
10-02-2004, 04:13 AM
I'm talking the dual chairs, and the whole set up. It seems pretty heavy for a PT to carry that much weight AND the ammunitions
Yup!
http://www.ptboats.org/20-01-05-ptboat-009.html
bugfanatic
10-02-2004, 09:35 PM
I'm impressed - something that Hydro Junkie DIDN'T know. I knew sooner or later we'd stumble across something.
Hydro Junkie
10-03-2004, 03:16 AM
I never claimed to know EVERYTHING. I've seen a pic of a PT from the Solomon Islands with a modified 40mm on the bow. It had two cranks on it(elevation and direction) and was sited by the direction setter. It was strictly for barge busting, though the boat still had all four fish tubes. I just figured all the PT 40's were modded in that way, not with the whole mount installed. Come to think about it, it could have been a misidentified P39 Aircobra 37mm cannon, as the guys in the early days tended to grab EVERYTHING they could find for weaponry. Then again, who knows
I have a pic of PT 174 with a Bofors 40mm on the bow as well as the aft deck. I'm looking to find more pics of any US PT with a 40mm on the bow. What have you got?
Hydro Junkie
10-03-2004, 06:59 PM
Nothing at the moment. Had a few books with some pics in them from the Solomon campaign, till the Exwife "donated them to the Salvation Army or Goodwill to make space for her growing paperback romance book collection. That was almost 15 years ago, but I'm still finding one every so often mixed in
My esc got pretty hot when I ran the PT in open waters for the full term of the battery packs. It thermalled and shut down near the end of the run.
I got some larger heatsinks and screwed them to the esc heatsinks with thermal compound inbetween. I installed a 60mm fan to blow air over them. This should keep it cool and happy.
The esc comes with a switch, but I needed to remove the hatch to access it. So I installed it in the hatch so I can access it from a "closed up" boat. Isn't scale of course but neither is this boat! :rolleyes: It will be better camoflaged after I paint over it.
The hatches are held down with rubber bands and plastic tabs. The tabs break easily. I found some brass clamps from a ARF I bought back in the mid 70's. Nice to know I finally found a use for the hardware I have packrat'd away all these years, lol!
Finally, a pic of the proper Raboesch prop in place of the crappy plastic ones the model came with.
http://www.fototime.com/969C970BACA7B2F/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/703F63FB289821E/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/E90F95643F766CC/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/938B425743791FB/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/8B59B62A46F9115/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/31701B388AB2E65/orig.jpg
Now, for a little gallows humor.... the depth charges on deck:
http://www.fototime.com/C54417BE4CBFECC/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/B51AD5A51EC75B8/orig.jpg
And lastly, another picture of the "high quality standards" the Midwest PT boat was allowed to pass inspection with :rolleyes:
http://www.fototime.com/9A298E9C9F07EA6/orig.jpg
Kmot,
For the hatch tie-downs. Have any magnets handy? They work for me to hold the superstructure to the deck on a large scale model. If you happen to have an old CD drive laying around, they have a small magnet in them that will hold a '48 Packard! A small steel plate glued to the deck and it should work just fine. Or even better, find a couple of the flexible magnetic strips used in advertising for the steel plate...
- 'Doc
Doc, what a clever idea! Thanks for the tip. :)
Got a new video up. Has it really been 7 months since I last drove this boat? :rolleyes:
http://www.******.net/view_single.php?medid=56876
frankbank
05-26-2005, 11:17 AM
hey guys where did you get the saliors?
Frank
osalvat
06-16-2005, 04:42 PM
Hi, my name is Oscar. I bought Midwest's, ARR, PT-109, and it was a sad disappoinment from start to end. I agree 100% with Kmot, this boat is mediocre at best. In my model the right motor was GROSSLY misaligned with the stuffing tube/prop shaft on that side, the subsequent vibration & noise were too bad. To make things even worse, water was coming into the boat through the bottom hull, across 2 of the stuffing tubes and hull. The rear cannon was SQUARED!...and the other fittings in the deck/deckhouse seemed made by primary schoolers.
Midwest is coming in August with a $900, ELCO, PT boat, 60" long. They should make something really worth that money. I placed an order for one already, but I will have no problem sending back to then if I see any misalignment on the motors. They should stand behind their product. Period.
osalvat
06-16-2005, 04:59 PM
Forgot to mention, that I emailed Midwest and their answer was, "what happened to your model was not the norm". Obviously it was not.
Please if any of you knows anything about the quality of their ELCO, PT-109, coming out in August, let me know. I heard good things about their 47, Coast Guard, ARR, but it is not in production anymore.
Forgot to mention, that I emailed Midwest and their answer was, "what happened to your model was not the norm"..
Gee, I wonder what the norm is then. Only two reports I have ever seen anywhere on the internet about this model and both state obvious defects. :rolleyes: