Time for a new hull

[OldStyle]

I have decided that I want to go with a big v hull with a 23+ cc 2 stroke. Are there any good hull kits? What are the better weedwacker motors to match a boat of this size. Will also need hardware options. Anyone run these types of boats? Im sure they are very rewarding to build.

[scottericsonon]

whats your price range??

areomarine WWH AC boats and many others make quality hulls
Vern (AKA)forabuck makes a nice hull for the money if youre more budget oriented

engines: zenoah zenoah and zenoah lol
although people are getting ok power out of the homelites again on a budget

speedmaster is (IMHO) the best bang for your boating dollar when it comes to hard ware

theres others out there that im sure are just as good

some links for your enjoyment


http://www.whobbies.com/

http://www.rossisales.com/

http://www.redlinestands.com/images/index.htm

http://members.aol.com/dwir1/pc1.html


https://www.dynasite.net/site100-01/1001414/explore.cfm?p=N&store=Y&U=1&SS=1&S=1001414

http://www.marinespecialties-rc.com/index.htm

http://www.rocketcityracing.com/tek9.asp

http://www.bonzisports.com/

http://www.bhhanson.com/bhabout.htm

http://www3.telus.net/acboats/


whew!
that should keep you busy for a bit

scott

[OldStyle]

Thanks, As far as budget... I know what it could cost and it will just have to be done as I can afford it. I am just going to assume a boat 50 to 60" will run min $1000

Thanks for the links

[OldStyle]

BTW, are most weedwacker motors able to be used? Do you need a clutch or can it be direct drive. A clutch sounds nice. I am leaning towards a homelite just for cost and to get the feel for it. Is there a certian model number for a better engine?

[Icman69]

Remember Homelites take lot more space than Zenoah mainly height. Most large Deep V boats will hold one though. I just posted a picture of one I just finished in the beginners area. The post is 1st one out of the mold it is 52" I am working on the molds for a 57" that I will debue in Septermber. I pesonally like the big boats much easier to run on large bodies of water.

[97TRAKIN]

I am leaning towards a homelite just for cost and to get the feel for it.

I was thinking the same thing when I first built my boat. After my first Two (2) races I went out and bought a brand new modded Zen for $450. That Zen bug bites real hard!!!...

[OldStyle]

Well I have 2 new options for motors. I can get both at cost. The 31cc honda 4 stroke or any of the sthil 2 cycle motors hondas running about 250 cnd.

[scottericsonon]

should be able to put together something pretty nice with a zen for a grand maybe a wee little bit less

keep your eyes peeled in here and on jims for used stuff

ive got about 8hundred in my 60"cat with a zen 260

scott

[OldStyle]

Ya, really I dont even know where to start. I am still looking for a good hull. looks like it will be a 48" to 60" I just dont know what one yet.

[scottericsonon]

do you have the money to lay out all at once??
or do you plan to piece something together?


quality hulls at ALL the links i posted

kinda boils down to which one you like the shape of

scott

[OldStyle]

I wont have the money to lay down for everything. I want to start with a hull. I like the bubble hatch types.

I was thinking this one

http://www.redlinestands.com/images/51Goldvhull.jpg

[OldStyle]

Ended up getting the hull I posted above... I am lost when it comes to hardware, what all do I need? Trim tabs, rudder/rudders strut... The hull is a 51" deepV. I dont have a clue what sizes and whatever I need for this stuff. I am still undecided with the motor yet. I think its going to be the 31cc honda 4stroke or a sthil. I can always get a zen down the road...

[scottericsonon]

good lookin boat

im not 100% on what all hardware you would need for a "V" hull

try brian down at rocket city racing he should be able to put together a complete hardware kit for you for a reasonable amount of money
he will know what all u need

these motors all have a 1/4" square drive right?
he will need to know that so he can get you the right stuff

any questions just holler

let us know when u have all the parts
we will be able to give you some advice or point you in the proper direction as far as setting everything up



scott

[Doubledog]

One of Verns hulls. Love the lines and the color of your choice. Keep this thread alive with your project from start to finish. Try not to spread it all over the place. I'm getting older and more forgetful.

[Chris LaPanse]

WHH has some good hardware, as well as engines, props, etc.

[OldStyle]

DoubleDog... I liked the look of the hull too. The color of it will be metalflake silver 40% faded into metalflake royal blue 60% with some hologram rainbow and 22 mils of clearcoat.. I was going to do the candyapple red and not the blue but vern said this hull will be a 1st. He has never painted that color combo before so I decided to stick to the blue. Im sure it will look sweet. He will be sending picture at the end of next week. I went to buy a motor today, was looking at homelites. All I could find was a 25cc one so I decided to scrap the homelite. I would just do a zen but there are no dealers around here and the cost is a bit high for me right now. I will do a zen in it later on. I think I am going to go with a stihl 25.4cc pro or a 27cc motor. the 25cc is 1.3hp and the 27 is 1.0hp both are a steel to steel clutch on them. I will fab a nice aluminum exhaust and pipes once I have it installed. I wish I knew more about the motors as far as performance. I see some use them in the aircraft forum but havent really got a good answer in the boat forums. I imagine I will get speedmaster to put together my hardware package for me. I havent finished looking around yet just because I am still undecided about a motor. I still like the idea or a honda 31cc 4stroke too. Lots of power but only 10,000 rpm would be enough juice to run a overdrive but I dont want to make things harder then they already will be. Still new to boats and this is my 1st gas boat 2nd boat in total. Its nothing like the 7.5 kb hanging off my lapcat 2 :p

I'll keep the thread alive also...

[Chris LaPanse]

only 10000 RPM? So what? I've got a 3" prop on my Zenoah (actually EZ-25) and it turns 13000 rpm and it MOVES. I think with that hull, if it doesn't end up weighing more than 18-22 lbs, it will probably hit mid 30's with an 80mm prop turning at 10000 rpm and a good surface drive. (not on overdrive, just direct drive)

[OldStyle]

I am not aware of rpm of these larger motors (15+cc's) I thought the zenoah's were spinning closer to 17'000 rpm. So a stihl that hads a max rpm of 11,700 no load would be ok. If I only need 10,000 rpm to do 30+ then I have a few more choices. I am sticking to stihl only because I get them for cost. Honda being the other also at cost. I tried to see if I can order just the 31cc 4 stroke but they say you cant. Up here they start at 460 retail. Better one being about $550 CAN funds. I think a tuned pipe 4stroke of that size would sound neat. The spin at 10,000 rpm and have good power.

[OldStyle]

Honda GX31cc is 1.5hp @10,000 rpm 13 lbs including trimmer (dry)

[Hydro Junkie]

Would a tuned pipe do any good with a fourstroke like that? It might only act as a muffler, since the engine uses valves instead of porting the sleave.

[scottericsonon]

hydro is rigght

tuned pipe on a 4-stroke would do nothing

just the way they r desighned

2 strokes have bothe valves(for lack of a better) open at the same time so some fresh air/fuel mixture escapes the exaust

a good tuned pipe with push the escaping mix backwards into the engine essentually STUFFING more mix into the engine than what its volume theorectically can hold

kind of like supercharging it in the RPM "window" the pipe is designed for

FOUR strokes have a cam which opens and closes valves to injest fresh air fuel mix and exhaust well exhaust lol
the valves should not have any overlap well maybe a smidgion just to let the fresh charge push out the remnants of the old

oh wait this wasnt a lecture on tuned pipes lol sorry

go with an open straight pipe on your four stroke for BEST performance

bigger will give you RPM *to a point* and smaller will give you low end torque

on aan engine that size tho im not sure where the cut off point would be

scott

[OldStyle]

Ya I was more saying the sound of a 4stroke would be neat with a pipe meaning not the stock muffer/silencer. I am aware of the workings of 2 strokes and 4 strokes. The hull I got is tight for space so I dont even know if 4stroke is a option. Never looked at then to see if they are big next to the 2 strokes

[Chris LaPanse]

it would probably be a little taller than a two stroke (b/c of the valves) but if your hull is like most of them, it would probably fit. Also, you can find specs on Zenoah egines at http://www.whobbies.com/techpage.html. As long as your engine could spin a 70-80mm prop, you'd be fine. The old Hybrid (homelite) series engines at Warehouse would only turn an 80mm prop at 9500 RPM, but they moved the boats at 30+ mph. If i remember right, it's power output was around 1 1/4 hp @ 10000 RPM. So, it would make sense that your motor could do similarly. :D



BTW- the Quickdraw Racing Motors are the ones turning 7 hp and 17500 rpm

[OldStyle]

7hp @ 17500, that must really move. Is zen a hobby engine only or are they from a power tool?

What do you do with pull starts that are part of the plastic case the trimmer motor is in. All the ones I have looked at except honda are like that. Think the honda is out for now. It would be about $400 cnd for that I could find a zen. Still undecided... I have to wait for the hull so I can see how it will be set up. I have my hands on a 27cc stihl for a mockup. Needs a piston but it will be good to fit before I go buy a weedwacker for the same motor. they are cheep... 120 cnd. Only 1hp and 10,000 rpm. I think max is 11,700.

[scottericsonon]

oldstyle

i wasnt saying at all u didnt

sorry if it seemed that way

grab your tape measure and make sure the four stroker is NOT wider than 5 inches

if not you should be able to fab mounts pretty easily

i THINK most guys who use "tool "engines leave SOME of the plastic on it including the part with the P/S just cut as much off as ou can otherwise

you do know that you cant run your hatch with an air cooled motor right?

the Zens are (i think)just hobby motors im sure somebody somewhere uses them for SOMETHING else but theyre mainly hobby motors

theyre really not that expensive stockers run about 260 for the G23 and 280 for the G26

both are liquid cooled and just over 4 horse

what id like to have is the Hanson/Quickdraw Monster 50 (water-cooled 50cc twin)

4.7 lbs., 12.87HP @ 18,200rpm - tuned pipe and programmable ignition included


HOWEVER its more money than i usually spend on REAL cars lol

scott

[OldStyle]

No prob scott

I know the honda will fit down in 5" rails with a bit of notching. as far as a hatch I was going to vent it but if I have to run it open thats fine, I will make the hatch fit tho for show. Ya that quickdraw looks crazy, im sure its worth the 900 also. I dont even have another boat to race with, nobody I know anyways. I think on rcuniverse forums a guy is running a honda 31cc 4 stroke and he has it spinning at 13,000. Hes the one that said it would fit between 5" rails.

What about a clutch.. I know stihl and honda both have them, are they needed? Or is just nice to have. Maybe my other option would be a used zen and save for something better then a stocker.

I just dont know about the stihl. Nobody uses them that I can see... I know the hondas are used. I also dont have to worry about a pipe for the 4stroke and the P/S on the honda is a small unit contained to itself which is nice.

I know homelite is another (cheepest) option. All I can get is the 25cc one. But I also know these are used lots. Is there any videos of big hulls powered by zens and other gassers?

[OldStyle]

Well I decided I dont like to be cheep so im just going to grab a zenoah. Also I dont like the unknown, not knowing what fits and what dosent. Now I will just wait for a bit and then I will buy a G260PUM. I still like the honda idea but I can always do that later. Is the G260PUM the better choice?

[scottericsonon]

Well I decided I dont like to be cheep so im just going to grab a zenoah. Also I dont like the unknown, not knowing what fits and what dosent. Now I will just wait for a bit and then I will buy a G260PUM. I still like the honda idea but I can always do that later. Is the G260PUM the better choice?


a man after my own heart lol

i drive cars that should probably be in the junkyard but i got some really NICE toys lol

the twin QD is 1800bucks! i think 7 is what they get for the single

as far as a better choice well depends on who you ask

i have no experience with the 23 so im not gonna say

i know the 23 spins a bit higher but the 26 has .1 more horse (whee!) but is supposed to have signifingtly more torque in the bottom end

scott

[scottericsonon]

oh clutch thats right

personally im not running one but i know alot of people who do

if your going to run a clutch on a PUM u HAVE to have a water pump

i think its more of a nicity than anything

i didnt put one on my boat only because i didnt want to spen the extra 100+ bucks

plus i figured theres less to go wrong without one

scott

[OldStyle]

I see, ya I dont think I need a clutch. It would just be nice to have a boat that will idle without moving. I will go without a clutch for now and if I want I can always change later. I will look up the 23 and 26 and decide on which one.

Still waiting on the hull, should be sent out this week.

[Chris LaPanse]

The Zen was initially a model aircraft motor, although now, they are used on aircraft, boats, and go-peds. Also, the WHH motors are extremely reliable, and they come with a clutch (at least, some of them do). The EZ-23RC (WHH modified G-23, $350) isn't water cooled, so no need for a pump, however, you would need to get a lot of airflow to it. Also, it uses a canister exhaust, so you would have to figure out a way to route that out of the boat. It is usually used in open-hatch boats for this reason. At 2.8 HP @ 14000 RPM, it pushes a Super G (46", 18 lbs) to 40+mph. Their better engine, the EZ-25WC (WHH modded G-260PUM, $425) IS water cooled, but it will put out 4hp @ 13000rpm. Also, because it is water cooled, you don't have to worry about getting as much air to it as you would with an air cooled motor. It will push a 55-60" 22lb boat to around 45mph. Although these sound expensive, keep in mind that they include a clutch and an easy way to lube the drive cable. I would say these are the best variations on the 23 & the 26 for reliability and decent power (perfect for a beginner).

[OldStyle]

Im not sure how much the hull will be, I dont imagine it will break 25lbs fully loaded up. It is a 51" hull. I should have some pictures tomorrow or friday. For a water pump would any type of small pump work? I work at a GM dealership and I have a bunch of washer fluid pumps I collected from all the cavaliers that come in with smashed washer fluid tanks. I know these pumps move alot of water. I use them to fuel up my lapcat boat. They would keep a good flow going threw the head if I did use a clutch. I noticed alot of header/pipes are fairly $$$ what am I looking for when it comes to a tuned pipe for a zen260pum.

[OldStyle]

Ouch $2200 for a bonzi 70cc twin QD

[lovinnitro]

Hey Oldstyle, I may be wrong here so someone set me straight if I am. About a year ago I built a 46" Deep vee with an aircooled 32cc Mac. Stock motor. I finally got I think it was 29.9 on a gps. For say prolly a hundred more bucks I coulda got a Zen 230 that would have givin me more spped and power. Personal choice man but if your building that bad boy a go with a stock Zen 230 or 260. You'll still get used to it plenty fast but the Zen will provide MUCH MUCH more options for spicing things up down the road.
Don't get me wrong My Mac fires every single time and is a good motor. Just by the time I add a pipe and Walbro carb I can get a stock Zen that will still outpower it with no mods.
Just my .02, keep us posted ok?
Also I'm aircooled but that was because I like to run in Tampa Bay wich is salt / brackish wtaer.

[scottericsonon]

OLD

i dont see why a washer pump wouldnt work provided you could power it

the pumps guys USUALLY use are vacum operated so no need for 12V for them

keep in mind you ONLY need a pump if you use a clutch

ive personally never dealt with tony <WHH> but ive heard nothing but GOOD things about him

scott

[OldStyle]

I see. Im not sure how long soemthing like I reciver pack would last on a washer pump. I will have to take a look at the vac ones. If I use a clutch that is. I like the clutch thing also just because I can throw a failsafe on the gas so if something happens it will stop. Unlike the prather that ends up 1/2 a mile down the beach :( The last thing I want is to watch my new boat drive into the sunset. By the time I went to get the seadoo it would be accross the lake somewhere. The lake I run on is about 10 x 5 miles.

[OldStyle]

http://www.shark-racing.com/Imagens/Motores/MotMHZ06.jpg

hmmmm .......

[Chris LaPanse]

http://www.conleyprecision.com/backdrop.htm


Hmmm.........

[Chris LaPanse]

I think the best water pump is this one (http://www.easycart.net/whobbies/Water-Cooling.html), availible from Warehouse Hobbies. It is driven by the engine, so it needs no batteries or anything.

[BoatDoc]

ok...who's got the $$$$ around here??? cuz now i wanna see that 427 in a boat!!!!! that would make a great scale drag boat or hydro.

[lovinnitro]

Hey Boatdoc, There was a guy around who had one in a jetdrive boat. the thing looked incredible.

[OldStyle]

ya that 427 is neat, they sound cool... Watch the videos if you havent already.

I though water pumps would be more $$ I will just pick up one of those if needed. Thanks for the link.

[OldStyle]

Think I found my motor, from need for speed hobbies. A mod 260 6hp @ 16,000 rpm or the 231 5.1hp @ 16200 rpm

[OldStyle]

Got some pics from Vern today... Here is my hull

[OldStyle]

Another...

[OldStyle]

Hey guys....

Well the boat will be here in a week, I want to get some other stuff comming. I need some help picking out my hardware. Mainly strut, rudder size and a driveline. I will be using a stock zen260 (decided to start small so I can see the diff when I start to mod) with a clutch. I dont have a clue about this stuff. Any help would be great

[Doubledog]

Boat looks nice.

You're on your way.

[OldStyle]

Zen260pum is on its way now too... Boat should be here today

[OldStyle]

Heres new with old