LRP QC2 vs Novak GT7

[asw7576]

From your opinion, which ESC is better performance ? ..... I'm going to buy one and get confused. I know LRP QC2 is smaller and more expensive than GT7, but I'm a Novak fans. Novak brand is symbol of quality, performance and value IMO.

Thanks people for your input.

[asw7576]

Well.... it's too late..... I have the LRP QC2 with me right know. I'm gonna replace my LRP V7.1 in Mini Cooper with QC2. Perhaps it could shave few grams :p :p

[baih]

Novak is coming out with a new esc next month. go to their website.

[mwcet8k]

Looks interesting. Now the real question is, will it require the use of a big fat external power cap? The GT7 isn't even a "small" speedo when you take the external cap into account.

[mwcet8k]

Just found a pic of the GTX w/ an external cap. I wonder how LRP is able to make a speedo as small as the QC2 w/o one?

[TC3B3L3T3GT]

Looks interesting. Now the real question is, will it require the use of a big fat external power cap? The GT7 isn't even a "small" speedo when you take the external cap into account.
Niether is the QC2. I've got one in my touring car, and have literally no room to work with after the Worlds Kit. I don't know if it's required, but I'd rather have it and be safe...

From my experience, LRP's feel better than Novaks, and a little punchier in stock too. However, I raced a Novak for 5 years, and it never blew up or fell apart, and I didn't have to put stickers around the seams :D:D

[mwcet8k]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the worlds kit is necessary at all w/ the QC2. As far as I can tell, it was only intended for the original QC. I've never noticed the LRP team drivers using it on the QC2. But like I said, I'm not 100% sure on that.

[AudiTT-Quattro]

I'm not using any caps on my QC2. I'm running pretty much the same setup/chassis as Mr. AssociatedButRunningAnXRAY there.

Take a look at Novak's GTX before considering a competition ESC.

[asw7576]

Here is my observation ( like and don't like ) between LRP QC2 and Novak GT7. Overall, I think Novak ESC is still the best in quality and value....

GT7 :

Like: best quality as always, sturdy power cable post [-------] , flex wires are generously long, big power capacitor and schottky diode is included, easy setup, reasonable price, no motor limit, sticky and thick double tapes.
Don't like: size is bigger than QC2, orange color is lame and boring :D , don't understand at all how to program the ESC :mad: , thin cables for receiver + on off switch

LRP QC2 :

Like: good quality ( a girl name Monika tested my ESC and signed it he.... he... :D ) but I'm not sure with its reliability after 5 years, small size, waterproof :eek:, metalic blue color is eye catching, up to date and fancy, sort of no motor limit, innovative "reactive" software, easy setup, thick cables for receiver and on off switch.
Don't like: a bit expensive price, no big power capacitor included, tiny whiny schottky diode, less sturdy power cable post _[]_[]_[]_ .... i'm worried it might break after few hits, quite hard to understand the mode button :confused:

From performance view: I see indifference between the two during acceleration, top speed and braking. Perhaps because my motor is mabuchi RS 540.

[asw7576]

.......... even with Tekin G9 esc, these two esc are hardly capable to outrun it !!! :mad: Infact Tekin G9 esc REALLY runs longer than the two esc, just like duracell bunny :eek: ..... and I don't know why :confused: ?? but I guess G9 esc has triple generating functions = motor run cooler @ 16,600 Hz, battery temp cooler ..... aaww craps, and the most fascinating functions : recharging the battery during braking.

[Maverick Racer]

If you want to have problems with speedo's, get a GT7. I have had my Q1 since it came out almost 2 years ago, and have never had a problem with it. I have had a Q2 since it came out and had one of the early ones, that blew up. Got it fixed, free, no problem. It was a first bach one that had problems, that are now fixed.

Every stock GT7 that I have seen run in mod, even the newer ones with the super diodes, have let the smoke out at least once. I say stock ones, because the ones that the team guys get are not stock, and will most likely never let go. But thats what you get being a factory driver.

Ever since Tyree left, or was fired from novak, the QC has gone downhill. They do not do anymore in house work, and have not done anything with their SC's. If you have a GT7 that works, its not a bad speed controller, just not real reliable.

You dont have to use any worlds kit with either of the Q1's or Q2's. If you want to spend, $30 then go ahead, but the power cap wont give you anything. Unlike the novaks the LRP's, actually had some sense designed into them.

[CharlieS]

Nice Post. You may have seen a problem at your track, but what about the races I've attended this year and seen the GT7 working fine. Just because you see problems at your track doesn't mean the product is bad. There is a lot of Mis-use out there as well.

QC has not gone down at all. There were problems with the GT7 in the beginning but we've adressed and solved all of them. I have lots of team drivers that use the same GT7 that we sell. It's exactly the same as what the customer buys. (Unlike some other manufactures). We race what we sell. Unless a new product is being developed. Also, Tyree did not work in the QC department. None of the staff that you will meet at the track does. We have a different group here that handles that.

The Team drivers for all other ESC manufactures run Power Caps. Many even larger then what we use. Regardless of what you think, Power Caps help performance. This has been proven time and time again by many drivers and ESC manufactures.

Novak has a slightly different philosophy. We try to offer a product that is Top Level, just like we race with to the average user. This is taken the wrong way by some as they don't need all of that extra stuff, bottom line is it improves performance.

Yes, there are some special prototype ESCs at the tracks at time, how else would be do product development. The best way to test something is to run it in the actual conditions it is being designed for. For each race we've gone to and had Prototypes in the "Main" we've also had drivers using standard off the shelf GT7s. This is not marketing, or am I lying, I would never do that. This is the truth. Our racers use off the shelf ESCs for almost all situations. This year is a slight acception as we were developing the GTX.

[LasagnaCat]

For what it's worth, I've seen an unusual number of them go poof at our track as well - and some were with drivers that *know* what they're doing, not novice (gearing) mistakes or whatnot. Maybe they got the duds that have since been fixed as mentioned above, but the Cyclones and C2's still seem MUCH more reliable than the GT7's. And to be fair, I remember a handful of the LRP's going poof also. :)

[HauntedMyst]

I have the Quantum Competition 1 and the Quantum Competition Pro Reverse as well as multiple Novak's and I've never had a problem with either. Both companies are the cream of the crop and offer excellent service but one thing that lead me to switch to the LRP's was the combination of the life time guarantee and the small foot print.

Speedo's are like every other piece of electronic equipment in that if there is a fault, they will most likely fail with the first few weeks. If you run one for a few weeks and don't have a problem, most likely you won't ever have a problem with them unless it's a user related error and the company can't be held responsible for that.

[asw7576]

Doods........ I'm not insulting GT7 or QC2, I own those esc in my esc collection. I'm just sharing with you guys my experience from racing those esc. Believe me...... I see no difference in performance between the two. Both are great performer and quality esc ( including Tekin G9 ).

IMO, special point only for Novak for better build (quality components) than LRP. I could be wrong about quality issue, but I hope LRP is using quality components too. BTW, LRP QC2 is RC Car Magazine Reader Choice for 2004.

[asw7576]

Gentlemen...... allow me to introduce the master of all ESC :cool: :eek: :D

http://www.keyence.co.jp/hobby/speed/img/rapida_08.jpg

http://www.keyence.co.jp/hobby/speed/img/rapida_07.jpg

Visit here for details : http://www.keyence.co.jp/hobby/english/speed.html

[Maverick Racer]

Nice Post. You may have seen a problem at your track, but what about the races I've attended this year and seen the GT7 working fine. Just because you see problems at your track doesn't mean the product is bad. There is a lot of Mis-use out there as well.

QC has not gone down at all. There were problems with the GT7 in the beginning but we've adressed and solved all of them. I have lots of team drivers that use the same GT7 that we sell. It's exactly the same as what the customer buys. (Unlike some other manufactures). We race what we sell. Unless a new product is being developed. Also, Tyree did not work in the QC department. None of the staff that you will meet at the track does. We have a different group here that handles that.

The Team drivers for all other ESC manufactures run Power Caps. Many even larger then what we use. Regardless of what you think, Power Caps help performance. This has been proven time and time again by many drivers and ESC manufactures.

Novak has a slightly different philosophy. We try to offer a product that is Top Level, just like we race with to the average user. This is taken the wrong way by some as they don't need all of that extra stuff, bottom line is it improves performance.

Yes, there are some special prototype ESCs at the tracks at time, how else would be do product development. The best way to test something is to run it in the actual conditions it is being designed for. For each race we've gone to and had Prototypes in the "Main" we've also had drivers using standard off the shelf GT7s. This is not marketing, or am I lying, I would never do that. This is the truth. Our racers use off the shelf ESCs for almost all situations. This year is a slight acception as we were developing the GTX.

Charlie, I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you over this. Both times that we met at the birds were under good circumstances, and you seem to be a real nice guy, but, the fact remains that I have seen a lot of the GT7's go up in smoke. I send them in for customers all the time.

From a race's point of view, I have seen more troubles with the orange boxed speedo's then any other. I'm not talking about guys that race novice, and hook crap up backwords. I know you probably dont know who your talking too, problems of the internet, but I dont just race the "local" scene, birds, oval nats, vegas, I tend to get around. I have seen the GT7 have problems in the hands of what we would call experienced racers. I have seen LRP's go up too, but not near to the rate that I have seen the Novak speedo's go at.

As far as power caps, I have used them, and never have I seen a difference. I have heard all the arguments on why I should and why I shouldnt, but if Duane, and Daryle tell me not to, I dont. And I know you know the brothers I'm talking about.

But anyways, I got to go knock on some wood, or else my LRP's going to take a Sh*t this weekend in the main after all that talk.

[CharlieS]

Okay, sounds good to me. I'm sure just because a few pro drivers say something, it must be the truth. Yes, I know the Silvas, and I've spoken with them MYSELF many times about power caps. They were always for them. Duane runs Novak ESCs now in fact. He runs the power cap and the diode and never has had any issues to my knowledge.
Different performance level equipment will have different issues under different circumstances, Your experiences are masked a bit I'm sure, there are probably quite a few more Novaks out on the track then any other ESC, so you'll see more failures. But you're right, we don't need to get into that here.

You have to understand where I'm coming from here. I get the calls from the guy that says, Well I was reading on the internet about all the problems......... Post like yours create those issues, when in fact, the ESC works fine when used correctly. I'm not talking about Novice mistakes, I'm talking about things that even our team drivers do.

Thanks for you time.
If anyone has anything that they would like answered directly by us about Novak Products, you can always email us directly. I don't lie to anyone, or try to market or sell. I'm a racer just like you and only try to provide information to base your decisions from.

Thanks
Charlie

[LasagnaCat]

You have to understand where I'm coming from here. I get the calls from the guy that says, Well I was reading on the internet about all the problems......... Post like yours create those issues, when in fact, the ESC works fine when used correctly. I'm not talking about Novice mistakes, I'm talking about things that even our team drivers do.


Charlie, you yourself mentioned that there WERE problems with the early GT7's. Not sure how a forum or thread like this can "create those issues" when you'd admitted there were issues yourself. With that being the case, apparently the original released GT7's did NOT work correctly. If the problems have since been solved, as you stated, then the same people reading the thread should be reading that part also - most of the posts in the thread mention that people WERE having problems with them, not ARE having problems. That should back up your claim that the issues have been corrected. Much better to have them phone you and ask than to potentially lose a sale by them not checking. The simplest solution is of course to not release poofing esc's, such as almost every other model in the Novak line that all seem to work just fine (the Spy not included.) :cool:

[asw7576]

CharlieS : are you working at Novak electronics ?? good job man !!

[LasagnaCat]

Yes, he does.

[CharlieS]

I work here yes, but I don't live for this job. I live for the hobby itself, this job just makes the hobby a lot easier on my checkbook. I still look into all my purchases and go off what I've learned over the years. I'd say my learning has been stepped up a notch or two in the last few years working here. I've had things explained to me but I don't neccessarily understand every aspect of electronic wizardry that goes on inside the little boxes. :)

L-Cat, I'm not sure where your going with that. We don't need to get into a rock throwing match. I've admitted to the problems, problems that have been addressed for quite sometime. We can't go to every track across the country and check on each racer, we have to hope that they will do a little research from time to time. We have most everything posted to our website as soon as we know of an issue or have a change.
I'm sure no-one would ever assume we release a bad product. Things change all the time that help contribute to a problem, the ESC is the workhorse of the R/C Car is the most common place to "Show" the problems that happen. Sometimes they come from other parts of the car, sometimes they come from the ESC. It goes both ways. My point is only to defend the Novak Product with the "Other side" of the story. Not to say anyone is wrong or anything like that. I'm sure you understand.

Thanks again,
Charlie

[LasagnaCat]

Not really going anywhere (hostile) with that. You mentioned that "posts like these" can create issues. They can also be used to inform other people of known problems - you said yourself that the early GT7's had issues. It works both ways, as I'm sure you're aware of. I have no axe to grind against Novak products, I'm sure you've seen other posts I've made that have defended and supported them. With that being said, I've emailed you (through Novak, you always seem to be the one to reply) a few times with specific questions ("Does <product X> do <whatever>?") and have more often than not received generic (novice level and/or textbook) answers completely unrelated to the question asked. I think that there's just some base level that the two of us don't connect on - kinda like your reply to my post, I never said you released bad products. lol No problems at ALL with the bulk of Novak customer service, so please don't take it that way. They've been helpful most of the time for many, many years in the handful of times I've needed help with anything.

[BCSavage]

Hey guys, I'm gonna interrupt you for a second with a sorta noob question. I just bought a used car off ebay and it's coming with an Explorer II ESC. But it's got a 15T limit on it. Even for a returning-to-electric noob that seems pretty weak for me. So with trying to keep costs down, what ESC is recommended? I was thinking brushless but then if I ever did think about racing locally I'd have to nix it for another setup and that's too expensive. So then I was thinking the GT7 can be had for a decent price (gotta love ebay) but now I'm seeing "smoke" in everyones posts. I don't know what to do here. I don't know what motors I wanna run, I DO know that I'd like to be fast yet have decent run-times (more than 5 minutes like my buddy and his 12X2 Orion). Any help is gonna be great.

PS: The car is a NIB HPI Pro 2 :D

[LasagnaCat]

If you buy a new GT7 you'll be fine... if you want to go the used route you may want to consider a Cyclone or C2 Cyclone which are regularly sold in the $50-70 range and are great bargains. They were the previous top end Novak models before the GT7, the GT7 has more profiles but other than that they'll perform about the same. I think on paper the older esc's actually have better specs than the GT7's.

[BCSavage]

really? Hmmm, cuz I don't think the profiles is going to be a big seller for me... I'll take a look for the Cyclone.

[asw7576]

CharlieS : would you submit this idea to novak engineering team please ?

I wish I could have ESC that have automatic reactive software that operates motor frequency automatically. Perhaps the ESC have current monitor to determine frequency use such as high / sudden amperage means the motor's frequency should be lower, and vice versa.

For examples, during start, the motor freq. is < 1000Hz, and it will increase the freq. to 2500Hz for mid low speed, and it will increase the freq. to 3500Hz for mid high speed, and finally hit 16,600+ Hz for maximum effeciency.

Secondly, I wish the ESC have recharging feature when braking..... instead of heating up the brake FET, lets switch the braking energy for recharging the battery.

Thirdly, please keep it simple : simple looks, simple design, easy wiring, easy set up button and easy set up procedure. Don't use external power cap anymore..... looks untidy u know.

edit: BTW... so sorry if this idea is sux or have ever been implemented but didn't work.

[LasagnaCat]

You could always buy a Tekin and get two out of the three. ;)

[CharlieS]

L-Cat, I'm sorry. You're right, I was getting on my horse again. I apologize. Also sorry, to everyone else for having to read along. Anytime an answer is unsatisfactory, please ask for more, I'm always glad to elaborate. I have to start simple and go from there. Often times we get emails from people who don't know a whole lot about this stuff.

ASW- Sure, I'll let them know. LRP has something that is supposed to work like that. From our experience the motors today tend to like a more linear throttle response. Drivers have generally liked the way fixed profiles have "felt" over variable techniques. The problem with an automatic varying system, is that it will never be right for ever driver. No matter what each driver will like something a little different about that sort of thing. This is a big reason why some drivers preffer one brand of ESC over the other, the general "feel" is different. Most of today's ESCs can be adjusted to what ever feel you want though.

BC- If there are any issues with the GT7, you can get it exchanged with a RMF unit that has all the updates and a fresh warranty.

Thanks
Charlie

[BCSavage]

WE=ell if my Savage sells I may just have to get one ;) Thanks Charlie

but what is an RMF? Remanufactured?

[CharlieS]

Yes, RMF is Remanufactured.

[asw7576]

Still no comments on these ones ?

http://www.keyence.co.jp/hobby/speed/img/rapida_07.jpg

http://www.keyence.co.jp/hobby/speed/img/rapida_08.jpg

[HauntedMyst]

Keyence always seemed like nice ESC's to me but I never hear about their service and support. When ever I've had questions on my LRP's or Novaks, I've gotten someone live on the phone who gave a damn about the questions I was asking. I didn't get that with M-Tronics, and have stayed away from Keyence because I wasn't able to find out how they are supported here in the states if any. Granted I never looked that hard but with Novak and LRP, the info was right there. The only thing for Keyence I could find on Yahoo was their Japanese headquarters site, no USA site is listed.

[mwcet8k]

I had the same problem with a GM Racing speedo. I couldn't even find an English website for them.

[Sherminator]

i think everyone has an opinion here, both are top of the line speedos either one you cant really go wrong, yeah they both have their little flaws too but basically they both do the same thing!
Guys at my local track use the GT7 and everyone that ive talked to has had really great luck with them and like them alot. I had/have a C2 and it works flawlessly, a little old but flawlessly. I did buy that Comp2 and installed the worlds kit im sure that this will work very nice as well.

[Terry_S]

I wish I could have ESC that have automatic reactive software that operates motor frequency automatically. Perhaps the ESC have current monitor to determine frequency use such as high / sudden amperage means the motor's frequency should be lower, and vice versa.

For examples, during start, the motor freq. is < 1000Hz, and it will increase the freq. to 2500Hz for mid low speed, and it will increase the freq. to 3500Hz for mid high speed, and finally hit 16,600+ Hz for maximum effeciency.

Secondly, I wish the ESC have recharging feature when braking..... instead of heating up the brake FET, lets switch the braking energy for recharging the battery.

Thirdly, please keep it simple : simple looks, simple design, easy wiring, easy set up button and easy set up procedure. Don't use external power cap anymore..... looks untidy u know.


You could always buy a Tekin and get two out of the three. ;)

Hmm but which two?

No.2, regenerative braking, it's something you always get when braking.

The new MRT MX has all three! www.team-mrt.com It's not available in the US yet. More info will be made available soon.

As Charlie says it's not easy to have the answer for everyone because there are so many different requirements and driving styles etc.

[asw7576]

Terry: hey..... it's good stuff :D :D It has optimized PWM frequency ( LRP style ?? ) , adjustable power level, adjustable drag brake, small size, but still no recharging function under braking. I think only Tekin G9 have recharging function under braking :cool:

About the other two....... we were talking about LRP QC2 and Novak GT7.

Honestly, do you guys agree that you don't feel any power difference among first tier ESC ?? ( identical motor, tires, battery, gearing )

[3xs]

Keyence's service and support is top notch,I had a keyence that wouldn't take a set up and sent it in to be repaired and they sent me a brand new one,all within a week.I run keyence ESC's in both my cars.

[Terry_S]

asw7576, recharging when braking occurs as a consequence of the brake circuitry on ESC's. It's not unique, in fact it's very common on competition ESC's!!

[asw7576]

asw7576, recharging when braking occurs as a consequence of the brake circuitry on ESC's. It's not unique, in fact it's very common on competition ESC's!!

Are you 100% sure ?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I read the manuals of LRP QC2, Novak GT7 and Keyence Rapida. Not one sentence conforming recharging battery during braking.

Could anyone straighten this up ??

[highroller]

Of the esc I owned I like the Tekin line, used NovaK T4 to GT7, GMv12 and LRP IPC to V7.1 , Quantum 1 & 2. The first GT7 was used in oval racing, didn't like and sold it (possibly due to the fact the problems they had when they first came out). Bought another one which is used in my B4 and it's fine but when tried in oval I still didn't like the response, both Quantum has better response. That has been my experience with certain makes of escs, certain ones seem to have the ideal on power response for certain race applications. Novak has always been more ideal for me in offroad or the LRP models, but where you need consistant and full throttle response the Tekin and Quantum are better. The GM esc is similar to the Quantum but a bit of unreliable - programs seems to wander after completeing setup. Yes the Tekin are used mostly for TC or stock oval racing, or carried as backup for my main escs.

[Terry_S]

asw7576, I run a company along with my Brother in the UK called MRT. We've been in business designing and manufacturing our own top competition ESC's for over 10 years now and all of our ESC's have regenerative braking. Our last few models, the VFx, Vtrac and VX all have it and our new micro-size speedo the MX also has it. It's probably just that other companies don't feel the need to make claims about "x% longer run times" or "x% power saved by recharging the batteries" etc, I know we don't.

The way to look at it is if you have a very low on-resistance ESC and save more power by not wasting valuable energy heating up the FETs it's far better than regen and worrying how much power regen saves. Our new top of the range MX controller is about half (that's 50% lower) the resistance of the *claimed* best ESC FET specs we've seen. We are talking about a BIG leap here!!!

[Terry_S]

To put it in perspective, and use an equivalent marketing hyped up statement... advertising that regenerative braking gives extended run times etc etc is like saying that when a speedo gets hot it's of benefit because it heats your car up! If it's mentioned at all I expect it's simply to compete with other manufacturers claims. If it's not mentioned prospective buyers might be put off spending their hard earned money on a speedo without regen... shock horror!!!! :eek: