A modest proposal: car length

[jrc]

Hi,

I sent this email to RCCA a while ago. I thought I'd post it here in case it hadn't reached them.


Dear RC Car Action,

As a longtime reader and hopeful participant of R/C Car Action’s World’s Fastest R/C Car Challenge, I was disheartened by the length rule change from 24” to 40.” However, I can understand the reasoning behind this, as the rule change will allow all sizes of R/C cars to participate. In light of these changes, I’d like to suggest dividing the length class in two, for cars below a length limit of around 27”-30” (roughly 1/8 scale size) to accommodate the 1/10 and 1/8 scale-sized cars, and another class from 27” to 40” for the larger, 1/5 to 1/4 scale-sized cars.

With two length classes -- below 27” and 27”- 40” -- a wide range of cars can compete against similarly sized brethren. Like-cars will compete with like-cars, rather than small 1/10 scales pitted against large lawnmower-powered 1/5-scale cars. It's one thing for a 1/5 scale to achieve 120 mph; it's an entirely different thing for a 1/10 scale to achieve that same speed. The smaller length class will discourage the mentality of "to go faster built it bigger," and promote the approach "to go faster, build it better." A new, smaller length class will encourage many builders to not merely cram more power into a larger chassis, but encourage many to instead push the limits within smaller sized R/C cars.

The 27” and under class will encourage the development of cars with more common R/C car components and powerplants, and will produce innovative cars that readers can more readily identify with. It will create a class of vehicles reminiscent of the “Insane Speed Runs” I enjoyed reading about in R/C Car Action years ago and will more equally match the type of vehicle used to set the current record, Cliff Lett's RC10L3O. I'd hate to see a marvelously designed 1/10 scale machine break Cliff Lett's existing record, only to walk away with nothing after being blown away by a behemoth 40" high-powered R/C go-kart.

Two length classes will eliminate the disparity between the large scale and average sized R/C cars, while still fostering the “anything goes” open spirit of the competition and allowing both large and small R/C cars to go for the record. It will allow the smaller cars to have their chance at glory away from the larger cars, and encourage a challenge of the existing record with similarly sized machines, instead of simply breaking the current record with overwhelmingly larger and powerful cars. Adding a smaller length class will promote innovation in the more common R/C car scales, and rather than the possible of domination of only those who build big, with bigger engines, bigger chassis', it will also reward those who refine cars at smaller sizes in the quest for the title of "World's Fastest."

I thank you for your time and I hope that you will take these suggestions into consideration, making this a better competition both for the participants and for the readers of R/C Car Action. I look forward to a contest that will not only bring out the best and fastest in large scale cars but one that also encourages the participation and rewards the achievements of smaller, average-sized R/C cars as well.


Sincerely,

James

[EddieWeeks]

Yeah.. All that is fine, but when its all over IF a 1/5 scale is the faster car...
Then that 5th scale should be named "Worlds fastest RC car" not
"Worlds fastest RC car between 27" and 40" "

Have as many classes as you want... but there can be only one
"Worlds fastest RC car"

Eddie Weeks
http://www.corpcomp.com/weeks1/car/car.html

[DaFF]

I agree with jrc.

Eddy, if you think there is only one "fastest RC car on the planet", then be ready to see longer cars, out of the RCCA challenge, to blow all the records done.

IMHO, we do need to give a chance to the ppl coming to this event with a car "close to conventional stuff we see everyday on the street" i.e. 1/10 car and such like the one from Cliff.

Only my 0.02 euro

DFF

[CENthasizer]

yeah i think there should be the 2 classes, instead of calling them above 27" and below 27" class, call them somethign unique, like big scale rc and small scale rc....or somthing like that. (i know all rc are smaller scale than a real car...).
But all in all the people who will complain about this size rule are those with 1/8th and 1/10th scale cars because we think that the bigger scale will win!
anyways it would be nice if all the people with 1/8th and 1/10th scales could think that all "our" work is worth something in the end, instead of knowing that bigger means faster!

[EddieWeeks]

Hi,
I'd hate to see a marvelously designed 1/10 scale machine break Cliff Lett's existing record, only to walk away with nothing after being blown away by a behemoth 40" high-powered R/C go-kart.
Sincerely,
James

Your implying that there will not be any marvelously designed 1/5 scale
where with the two 5th scale cars being discused here, one has a turbine
and the other has a custom V8... There is more design work with those
two cars than anything else I have seen here. Most 1/10 scale car will use off the shelf parts, what is so marvelous with that ?

Eddie Weeks

[nitrohead5300]

What is marvelous about this competition is the creativity!!

[mgs9]

A big part of the WFRCCC's mission is to expose high-performance RC to a new audience. What better way to do that than with an event that can reach the mainstream media with a message like "RC cars exceeding 100mph!"? With that in mind, we wanted the rules to require cars that, while no doubt exotic and expensive, were still "toy sized". That way, when Joe Nonhobbyist sees the story, he might think "Wow, I had no idea toy cars could go that fast! I'm now going to visit Hobbytown and wipe out my Visa card". If the cars are huge, it's still a cool story, but the hobby may seem more like something for the ultra-hardcore, not anything for regular people.

But, upon reflection, it just didn't seem right to have a rule that instantly eliminates what many consider to be the ultimate RC machines. So welcome big cars...but I'm rooting for the "little" cars!

I think peter here ^^ has a point, Most peoplewould by an 10th,8th scale over a 5th or 6th scale :)

[Mike Keeney]

James, I thank you for speaking your mind, and I appreciate your position, but this isn't a contest for the fastest 1/10th or 1/5th scale car. RCCA has said over and over, it's about raw speed and radio control. They put a limit on length and a restriction on the propulsion method. Other than that, they're lookin fer speed.

I'm 46 years old and I'm the guy building the V8. Eddie is building the turbine powered car. Both of our cars will be 40". I don't know what Eddie thinks, but I've certainly read posts in this forum from other people with excellent ideas that could easily whup the snot out of may car, if everything goes right. The record will fall, but I couldn't say with any certainty I will be the ultimate winner because I spent the most money or had the most horsepower, or because my car was 40" long. Several people have speculated that the top speed will be somewhere around 180 mph. I think that's about right, but none of us will know for sure until race day.

I've said it many times here, this isn't a contest that will be won with off the shelf parts. That's the cold hard truth. But what will come from this contest is a leap in technology that will benefit RC'ers everywhere.

The bottom line is ingineuity and R&D will probably take the day. One thing you can be absolutely certain of is that getting to these speeds will be extremely difficult for everyone, and whether a car is 40" or 18" isn't going to be the determining factor.

Does this mean that a segment of the RC community will be left out of the fun? Unfortunately, the answer to that question is yes. But realistically, is it unfair that someone driving a stock Chevy wouldn't be competitive in a NASCAR race? Nope. That's just the way it works.

Just my 2¢.
Mike

[CENthasizer]

excelent post mike, the only question i have to you is this... how do u get the cents sign? that would be so much more helpful in the future on here... other than that i now see that it is for the speed and not the size... besides a 1/5th is heaveir and has more surface area then a 1/10th, which evens the tables really....
I will also prove you wrong and enter my stock part car to show you that i can get 180mph... ok...80mph...

[minitdriver]

This is all malarcy.Why not make two classes?Only one can be the worlds fastest!Guiness doesn't make exeptions like he was kid to grow longest fingernails or something.If you are using a "conventional" rc car then you don't plan on winning.Mike was spot on and ya its a good idea James but not in this scenario.Maybe you can make a national type speed even then take farther and have your own classes but this is about speed not who can go the fastest in a certain class.
Stay classy readers
Ken

[racinlosi]

Yes, I agree with Mike Keeney 100% also, but I want to know, how did you get that cents sign? lol

[mgs9]

if he has a Mac theres a key called option alt and you can change you sign 2¢ or you can copy paste his. :)

[Mike Keeney]

excelent post mike, the only question i have to you is this... how do u get the cents sign? that would be so much more helpful in the future on here... other than that i now see that it is for the speed and not the size... besides a 1/5th is heaveir and has more surface area then a 1/10th, which evens the tables really....
I will also prove you wrong and enter my stock part car to show you that i can get 180mph... ok...80mph...
There is a whole bunch of special signs available, if you know where to look. You can do a few fractions such as ¼, ½, ¾. You can make a degree sign 98°, you can even get the real × for dimensions. 1"×2" rather than 1"x2". It's easier to compare side by side, ×x.

The secret to these special characters, hold down the alt key on the keyboard and then enter 0162, you'll get the ¢ sign. To find out where all the special signs are, go to Start/Run and enter charmap. If that doesn't work, search your system for a file called charmap.exe. It's usually in Windows/System. When you get the program open choose the typestyle you want and all of the characters available for that font will appear. You might have to scroll down to see them all. Click on any of the characters you want and you will see the key combination assigned to that particular character.

Have fun!
Mike

[studysession]

Personally - I would think the 1/4 and 1/5 scale would need more room to get up to same speed as a 1/10 and 1/18 scale.

As for length - no big. I would have liked it to of staid with the 1/10 and 1/8 scale sizes. But anyone can make a car go fast. Size should not matter. I micro can out run most 1/10 scale touring cars in a straight. It is all about the power you put to the drive train.

Grant it, that is why my Micro is not running now also - I put to much power to the drive train and bew out the diff's. :)

[Potato]

The bottom line is ingineuity and R&D will probably take the day. One thing you can be absolutely certain of is that getting to these speeds will be extremely difficult for everyone, and whether a car is 40" or 18" isn't going to be the determining factor.


A MAJOR factor in the contest is stability, which HEAVILY favors the larger cars. On a track built for full size cars, the larger R/C cars' will have the advantage. Bumps and dips that would unsettle a 18" car aren't even a problem for a 40" car. Comparing a 18" and a 40" car with the SAME top speed, the 40" has it way easier. It's much less of an engineering challenge to get that 40" car around the track without getting launched by a dip or bump.



Does this mean that a segment of the RC community will be left out of the fun? Unfortunately, the answer to that question is yes.


IRONIC, isn't it? The segment of the RC community left out is the primary segment that buys R/C Car Action. It's not often you see 1/5 scale cars featured in RCCA, or sold in your average hobby shop for that matter.

[Potato]

Personally - I would think the 1/4 and 1/5 scale would need more room to get up to same speed as a 1/10 and 1/18 scale.

As for length - no big. I would have liked it to of staid with the 1/10 and 1/8 scale sizes. But anyone can make a car go fast. Size should not matter. I micro can out run most 1/10 scale touring cars in a straight. It is all about the power you put to the drive train.

Grant it, that is why my Micro is not running now also - I put to much power to the drive train and bew out the diff's. :)


Keep in mind, this track is for FULL SIZE cars. While you're bouncing over the relatively large bumps and dips of the track with your 1/10 scale car, a 1/5 scale can have a much easier time putting the power to the ground. So while your 1/10 scale has a great power-to-weight ratio and all that, you're gonna have it much harder than the 1/5 scale just to put the power down. For example, you'll find it much easier to wipe out your micro than your 1/10 running at the same speed. Size DOES matter.

[Mike Keeney]

A MAJOR factor in the contest is stability, which HEAVILY favors the larger cars. On a track built for full size cars, the larger R/C cars' will have the advantage. Bumps and dips that would unsettle a 18" car aren't even a problem for a 40" car. Comparing a 18" and a 40" car with the SAME top speed, the 40" has it way easier. It's much less of an engineering challenge to get that 40" car around the track without getting launched by a dip or bump.
Without a doubt, running over a cigarette butt would be more serious for a small car than a big one. But what does that have to do with anything? 18" or 40", you still gotta make it down the track. I might be able to handle a small bump better than you, but you don't have to get a hundred pound car up to speed either. You don't see me griping because the smaller cars have a huge weight advantage over my car.

IRONIC, isn't it? The segment of the RC community left out is the primary segment that buys R/C Car Action. It's not often you see 1/5 scale cars featured in RCCA, or sold in your average hobby shop for that matter.
They're not left out, the contest is open to anyone, and there's absolutely no certainty that any car will win just because it's longer than another. A 40" car has just as many design/performance obstacles as all the other cars. Just because my car is 40" long doesn't mean it will be easy to hit 180 mph.

Cheers,
Mike

[Potato]

Without a doubt, running over a cigarette butt would be more serious for a small car than a big one. But what does that have to do with anything? 18" or 40", you still gotta make it down the track. I might be able to handle a small bump better than you, but you don't have to get a hundred pound car up to speed either. You don't see me griping because the smaller cars have a huge weight advantage over my car.


What weight advantage? The contest is about top speed, not acceleration. Anyway, with the same power-to-weight ratio, the smaller car has less stability. With the same top speed, the smaller car has more difficulty keeping it in control. The cars you and I drive everyday are 3000 lb+, they don't have much difficulty getting up to 80 mph. A 100 lb, purpose built-for-speed car won't either. Go-Karts weighing maybe 300 lbs, for example, have no trouble getting up to speed. Even with the dead weight and drag of a 150 lb driver sitting in it, karts can reach over 120 mph. Stock off-the-shelf 1/5 scale cars have no trouble reaching 60 mph. All the while, larger vehicles benefit from the greater stability of their larger footprints.

It's not so simple with a car less than two feet long.




They're not left out, the contest is open to anyone, and there's absolutely no certainty that any car will win just because it's longer than another. A 40" car has just as many design/performance obstacles as all the other cars. Just because my car is 40" long doesn't mean it will be easy to hit 180 mph.


I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to think that just because a car is 40" in length, it will automatically beat smaller cars. It's obvious that a poorly designed 40" car won't win. The point is, if you truly want to win against the toughest competition, if you truly want to maximize what's possible within the rules of the contest, you MUST USE THE ENTIRE LENGTH. It is obvious, smaller cars have less potential in terms of top speed. Plain and simple, the bigger and better you make the car, the better chance it will have of winning.

Isn't that what you're doing?

[Mike Keeney]

I still fail to see your logic. What does it matter if smaller cars are less stable? All that does is put more emphasis on the skill of the driver. You have to make it down the track, plain and simple. Any car going 180 mph is in the red zone. Doesn't matter how long it is or how much it weighs. Try going 150/180 mph in a real car. The pucker factor is just as high as it will be for RC drivers.

It is obvious, smaller cars have less potential in terms of top speed. Plain and simple, the bigger and better you make the car, the better chance it will have of winning.
No disrespect intended, but your just wrong, plain and simple. You keep going back to 'size matters'. Fact of the matter is, it ain't over till the fat lady sings. We won't know who the winner is until race day. Until then this debate is moot. Long car, short car, heavy car, light car, electric car, nitro car, etc. won't matter to the speed meter.

Cheers,
Mike

[FLYBOY7]

i was all ready to hit this speed contest with a Hacker/li-po powered AE pan car... till the 40" rule showed up... now i'm staying at home, and i bet i'm not the only one staying at home because the 40" rule takes the "fun" out of it.....

personally, i think a high speed contest should be about who can get their r/c car that uses mostly off the shelf parts to be the fastest... not about who can shove a Hyabusa engine in a shifter cart...

[FLYBOY7]

and you rocket scientists out there.... if you think a larger scale car is not an advantage, you're crazy... i've run my mini-t at 30 mph and hit a cigarette butt, it's in a death roll..... if i hit a good size rock at 40 with my Revo you can hardly even notice... a longer wheelbase Always means more stability in a straight line... i'm sure you've guys seen the full size cars that go for speed records.... none of them are going for the shortes wheelbase possible.... LOL... quite the opposite...

[Potato]

I still fail to see your logic. What does it matter if smaller cars are less stable? All that does is put more emphasis on the skill of the driver. You have to make it down the track, plain and simple. Any car going 180 mph is in the red zone. Doesn't matter how long it is or how much it weighs. Try going 150/180 mph in a real car. The pucker factor is just as high as it will be for RC drivers.


No amount of "skill of the driver" is going to keep (proportionally) severe surface irregularities from unsettling the car. There is only so much a driver can do. If a 1/10 scale hits a hole 1/2" in diameter 1/4" in depth, it's going to get launched, no matter how great the driver is. Yet, a 1/5 scale will drive right over this same hole.

While the skilled drivers of 1/10 scale cars struggle with traction and stability, often letting off the power to keep the car in control, the skilled drivers of the 1/5 scale will be able to put much more power to the ground and sustain higher speeds with less loss of control. I don't see how this is disputable. ??

Try going 80 mph in a road car, that's no sweat. Try that in a 1/5 scale, it's a little bit harder. Now try that in a 1/10, there's your "pucker factor." Try it in a 1/18 while you're at it. MUCH harder. While the cars are smaller, the bumps, dips, and holes in the road are all the same size.



No disrespect intended, but your just wrong, plain and simple. You keep going back to 'size matters'. Fact of the matter is, it ain't over till the fat lady sings. We won't know who the winner is until race day. Until then this debate is moot. Long car, short car, heavy car, light car, electric car, nitro car, etc. won't matter to the speed meter.

Cheers,
Mike

Maybe for you, a builder of a 40" car, this debate is moot. But for those with much smaller machines and those who would like to see 1/10 and 1/8 compete COMPETITIVELY, this debate is far from over.

You're getting me all wrong, I never said a 40" was guaranteed to win. I have no crystal ball, but I do have an understanding of physics.

This contest is called "THE WORLD'S Fastest R/C Car," and I expect to see competition worthy of that title. If you want to see the best in the world compete for this record, if you want to see people push the limits of what's possible, THEY WILL MAKE THEIR CARS 40". The space is there, they'd be foolish not to make use of the entire length set out in the regulations.

If, as you assert, everything "balances out," and cars of all lengths have equal potential to win, then WHY HAVE A LENGTH RULE AT ALL? What's the point in restricting it to 40"? Let's eliminate length restriction altogether! By your logic, a 180 hp motorcycle engine in a go-kart chassis would have no advantage over a 1/10 scale car running a brushless motor. Why bother with this pesky length rule at all? After all, as you say, length doesn't matter one bit.

My point is, size does matter in a competition where designers seek to squeeze every last bit of power, efficiency, and stability out of their designs. IF in the unlikely chance that a smaller car wins, it's not because a smaller car has an inherent overall advantage over the larger cars, it's because the designers of the larger cars have failed to MAXIMIZE and CAPITALIZE on the inherent advantage in a longer, larger machine. It's because the competition has not done their job!

If you see something smaller than a 40" win, it will be obvious that this contest has not drawn the toughest competition there is.

In the end, if this is truly going to draw competition worthy of the contest's title, 1/10, 1/8 scale cars WILL BE ECLIPSED unless there is a class for them to run in.

[studysession]

I don't care what anyone says -

I think a 1/10 scale could still win. I have no clue which will, but I really think the smaller cars have a lot of potential at doing this.

[mgs9]

Persnaly I dought that its going to change back to 24 inches. Im glad they changed it because my car is going to exceed 24". Many peole have said this but it dose all pretty much come down to design and driving skills.

[racinlosi]

I personally beleive(I watch NASCAR alot) that these "smaller" cars are going to be just fine! I mean, come on! This track is going to be REALLY smooth. Cris got his car up to 111MPH at this track and drove it just fine, right?

[Hz-R]

I do agree that bigger cars have the advantage. Potatos post before really puts it to the point. Because of their weight and size it's obvious they're going to be more stable over the same bumps.
If you want to build a car with a good chance at the crown, you want a stable car, and that means building a car to the maximum size allowed, simple as that.

Problem with this is that it's a lot more expensive to build the best possible car in 1:5th scale as it is in 1:10th. I think this might turn quite a few people off this contest.
Or maybe this will even things out, because they won't use the whole potential of the 1:5th because things get too expensive.. (saying that, by reading what Mike Keeney is building, this is probably not going to happen..)

Just my thoughts..

Robbert

[PeterV]

From the rules:

"The vehicle with the absolute highest peak speed will be declared the overall winner, and separate awards will be given to the fastest vehicles in the Manufacturer, Independent and Individual classes.

Special awards will also be given for “Most Innovative Design,” “Fastest-Looking”, “Fastest Production Car” (for vehicles that are still recognizable as production-based cars and trucks), “Fastest Engine-Powered Car” and “Fastest Electric Car.” We may also make up some awards at the event, based on the type of vehicle that show up (Fastest Monster Truck? Fastest Motorcycle? Surprise us!). It’s a top-speed contest, but we’ll also reward creativity and originality; we don’t want every car to be a rail with 20 cells."

So yes, there will be only one official "World's Fastest RC Car", but all the cars and drivers that deserve a moment in the sun will certainly get their due...even cars that aren't the fastest in ANY category could get a spot in the mag if the car looks cool and/or is technically interesting.

So please, don't bow out just because you aren't building a 40" car, or feel you don't have a shot at being the World's Fastest. I think this event is going to be FULL of surprises. You never know what's going to actually work, who's gonna break, and what's gonna happen until it all goes down! The winner might be the guy with a $10,000 custom job or some dude with a Bolink Econorail, lots of batteries, and a roll of tape. Either way, it's gonna be a blast.

[studysession]

I personally beleive(I watch NASCAR alot) that these "smaller" cars are going to be just fine! I mean, come on! This track is going to be REALLY smooth. Cris got his car up to 111MPH at this track and drove it just fine, right?


I totally agree.

[mgs9]

Me to ^^. Cris got it up to 111 on that track within 300 feet I think. So i think the smaller cars will have a chance and there wont be a need for a dragstrip like some people think it should be moved to.

[studysession]

My test area I am using is 631ft long. It took me 2/3 of it to get up to 93MPh. But that was with a much weeker motor than what I am switching to.

[minitdriver]

Ok i read halk way through the page and am glowing orange with frustration!THIS ISN'T OFF-ROAD!!!!!This is on a freakin paved oval-ish track!And who really cares if you don't get 120???Hell if I could I would put a Mamba 8000 and 3 cell Li-po in my Mini-T and go for it!It's just like club races.It's not about winning its about just being there and enjoying the hobby.But if you are serious and am really doing everything in your power to win then i have something else to say.If you think that 5th scales have a big advantage cause they can handle the "super bumpy" track serfice and that they have way more power than regular cars then your a freaK!I'm sorry but if you think you won't win against a 5th scale then try to beat as many as possible!!!The sheer weight of a 5th scale stock is astounding.To make the engine powerful enough to get those speeds is just more weight!If you are mad that 5th scales are a big mistake and will run away with the record and are argueing over this MINOR issue then( i hate to say this)DON'T COME!If you want to come and just give it a shot and be there to attempt something with a bunch of other people who are shoot ing to for the same thing then come.But if you're going to throw a hissy fit at the event cause a 5th scale beat your car then why are you there?It's pointless and AAARRRRGGGGHHHH.SORENITY NOW!!!!!!Well I give up because my post will only spark more argueing so I've totally given up on these 5th scales posts because they all end up in someone saying that they take too much room and will easily win and what not SO THIS IS IT!!!
Stay classy readers(If its possible!)
Ken
I'm sorry if I've angered somone but I'm just as mad because this rediculous and has gotten out of hand so once again I'm sorry if I've angered you

[jrc]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of your insightful and interesting comments.
As CENthasizer has suggested, the 27”-40” can be called “Large scale,” and the 27” and under can be called “Small scale,” or something like that.


Minitdriver,

Don’t be upset! This thread has only promoted some interesting and constructive discussion. If you’re planning on entering a 40” car or something, this discussion shouldn’t affect you, and if you plan on entering something smaller, it would only serve to help!





From the rules:

"The vehicle with the absolute highest peak speed will be declared the overall winner, and separate awards will be given to the fastest vehicles in the Manufacturer, Independent and Individual classes.

Special awards will also be given for “Most Innovative Design,” “Fastest-Looking”, “Fastest Production Car” (for vehicles that are still recognizable as production-based cars and trucks), “Fastest Engine-Powered Car” and “Fastest Electric Car.” We may also make up some awards at the event, based on the type of vehicle that show up (Fastest Monster Truck? Fastest Motorcycle? Surprise us!). It’s a top-speed contest, but we’ll also reward creativity and originality; we don’t want every car to be a rail with 20 cells."

So yes, there will be only one official "World's Fastest RC Car", but all the cars and drivers that deserve a moment in the sun will certainly get their due...even cars that aren't the fastest in ANY category could get a spot in the mag if the car looks cool and/or is technically interesting.

So please, don't bow out just because you aren't building a 40" car, or feel you don't have a shot at being the World's Fastest. I think this event is going to be FULL of surprises. You never know what's going to actually work, who's gonna break, and what's gonna happen until it all goes down! The winner might be the guy with a $10,000 custom job or some dude with a Bolink Econorail, lots of batteries, and a roll of tape. Either way, it's gonna be a blast.


PeterV,

I was initially planning to construct a completely custom 24” long car before the rules were changed. Now with the length extension, I’m not able to afford the construction of a car that I believe will be truly competitive or one that I would be happy with entering.

To be honest, saying “you might win because other people might goof up,” is not a promising way to enter a contest, not in one where people invest so much money, time, and effort. While I really enjoy designing and constructing my own cars, I don’t want to spend my time and money building a car that is at a disadvantage from the start. Leaving 2 feet left over as extra space available in the regulations is not good engineering. While I have the means to build my dream car 24” long, I simply do not have the resources to do the same in 40,” and that’s where the truly world-class competitors will be. So although I believe I have a shot when my competition is also 24,” if this contest sees the best in the world - as its title suggests - I know my meager car will be outclassed.

Although its true that “you never know what’s going to happen,” I’m not willing to spend my hard-earned money building something in hopes that someone else breaks, someone else crashes, or someone else’s design fails. I’d rather build something I know - within the regulations - is competitive. But leaving 2 feet of extra space within the rules is just too much uncertainty and too much of a gamble, especially when I know that I could build a larger, faster car within those regulations if I had the resources. If truly talented, capable engineers and racers are going to enter, they will make use of the entire length set out in the rules and design cars that maximize every single inch of that length. I don’t want to enter this like it’s a lottery, hoping to stumble upon the title because other people couldn’t get their act together or because they simply did not see the potential for speed available (within the rules) that I see. That’s too much to count on, and I know there are people out there who see the potential in the larger cars that I see, except they will have the means to make their own 40” dream car a reality.

As for the awards and recognition, I honestly do not understand why awards will be given for subjective and arbitrary criteria such as “Fastest-Looking” and yet the contest cannot be divided into two length classes in order to group the competition better. Additionally, if RCCA really wants to have a “World’s Fastest R/C Car,” what is the reasoning behind a length limit? Why the 40” length, why not 45”, or 60”? Since many people have suggested this contest is “wide open,” and “anyone can win, any size has a chance,” what’s the point of a length regulation? Why not completely remove that length limitation? If this contest is just “all about speed,” why can’t even larger cars enter? At the moment, it is really “World’s Fastest R/C Car under 40”,” which is just as contrived as “World’s Fastest R/C Car under 24”,” or any other set length limitation for that matter.

James

[e_lm_70]

Hi Guys,

It is blind to don't agree with the points made by jrc and others.

In the RC racing 1/10 cars are even not reacing against 1/8 cars !
Mixing 1/10 with 1/5 will clearly give big advantages to 1/5.

As well the RC scene is 95% dominted by small (1/10 & 1/8) cars ... while the 1/5 is a little nice for big pockets guys ... there are even some guys using 1/3 scale, and there are even some cases of 1:1 RC cars (like some funny "rodeo" made in UK times ago)

Considering that 95% of people use "small" rc cars, it is expectable that the fastest in this class should have at least the same honor of the winner of the 1/5 class even if the 1/5 is faster !

In my opinion awards should be distributed in this way ... based by classes:

class micro : up to 1/18 scale
class 1/10 : up to 1/10 scale
class 1/8 : up to 1/8 scale
class 1/5 : up to 1/5 scale

- in case of simplify at least two independed classes should be done:
class 1/8 : up to 1/8 scale
class 1/5 : up to 1/5 scale

all could be splitted in electro and gas power

Each class should be priced with awards/money and somehow based on the number of partecipant in the class, plus a special awards could be given to the overal fast).

I would expect that a guinness book will also consider to don't mix apple with orange ... so it would be nice if they will keep independed RC classes ... otherwise the RC speed record could be "easily" achived taking the real speed record car owner ... and replace the drivers with some servos and RX !!!

Just my 2¢.

e_lm_70

[EddieWeeks]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of your insightful and interesting comments.
As CENthasizer has suggested, the 27”-40” can be called “Large scale,” and the 27” and under can be called “Small scale,” or something like that.

James

Sounds like to me you don't want to enter unless you think
can will win.... You really don't know what is going to happen.
I am starting to think a 10th scale with the right gearing
is going to be the fastest..

Eddie Weeks

[studysession]

Personally I think anything is possible. If you think about the range the radio can reach. You are limited to that distance. I believe it will be a 1/10 scale that wins.

I know I will beat the 111MPh record. That is just a given from my tests I already done even though my fastest speed has only been 93MPh. Will I be the fastest, who knows. I will be happy just beating the 111MPh record right now.

I know there are companies who have bigger budgets than I do entering in this and it is going to be a tough competition. There will be loads of fast cars there.

As for the size rule, they can make it what ever they want and I am ok with it. Regardless, I will give it my best and have fun. It all about having fun right?

I do have a question - can we enter in with more than 1 car? It would be cool to do it with my 1/10 scale and break the current record and then give it a go with another car I have just for fun. :P

[Mike Keeney]

It's unfortunate that some people still don't understand the purpose of this event. The ONLY thing that matters is top speed. There are no "classes" for big or small cars.

Mike

[studysession]

Yeah and I agree. I would not want it split up into classes like that either. I think how it is now is just fine. The length rulle - well I know some 1/10 scale dragsters that would cut it close on the length rule. And that is 1/10 scale.

[minitdriver]

Mike and studysession,
You 2 still know what this is really about.Im glad about that.Most of these people are going to only win and they don't then they have dishonored there family(alittle exagerated).with that said I really have nothing more to voice my opnion because if you guy's heep harping that theme then maybe people will see the light, not from me losin my cool like i did.

Jrc,
I see that was ur 2nd post so I can forgive that you didn't know that I am unable to go to this event.If I did I would try a 5th scale OR go for fun with an insane speed mini-t.Also, this thread has only been talking about how unfair it is to 10th sclaes or at least thats what I see.

Like I say I have no ral arguement or point to attempt to make so I won't bother makin one up right now.
Stay classy readers
Ken

[e_lm_70]

Personally I think anything is possible. If you think about the range the radio can reach. You are limited to that distance. I believe it will be a 1/10 scale that wins.


Limit in a radio range ?
I have a nice video of a guy that he is showing his RC airplane flying over 1000m high, and sending back images from the onboard wireless camera !
So if money is not an issue, RC range could be well over the capabilities of your eyes !

Stating that false fact, then people should belive in your insane assumpiton: "I believe it will be a 1/10 scale that wins"


It's unfortunate that some people still don't understand the purpose of this event. The ONLY thing that matters is top speed. There are no "classes" for big or small cars.


This is very arrogant from your side !
I'm happy that since I'm on the other side of the ocean, I never plan to partecipate to this event, even if it was sounding cool.

The promoter of this event is a company that get money from 1/10 & 1/8 RC guys ... it is dummy for them to mix apple with orange and give honor to a 1/5 20.000$ car !

I guess you Mike are going to partecipate not only for fun, but with a clear goal to win , with tons of cash to burn in this event ... while I'm not surprise you are going to go for the 1/5 scale car ... I'm surprise you are messing around trying to state that 1/5 and 1/10 have the same chances in this event !

My knowladge of phisics told me that for reach a speed S the needed power W is something like W=S² x K x A ... where K is the areodinamix factor (a good real modern car is around 0.3) and A is the surface ... that is proportinal with the square of the dimension.

In a gas engine power is in general proportional with the volume.
Similar things could be related to electric motor !

For top speed the weight of the car has no main effect !

So while available power increase with the cube of the linear dimension, the need power for reach a speed S increase with the square of the dinension ...

So it is 100% clear that assuming same efficiency, as bigger you go and as faster you can go !

e_lm_70

P.S: How to win the event (if money is not an issue) : it is simple the most efficient engines are BL electric, take the biggest and powerfull BL motors (in a 1/5 scale) you can fit at least 3 huge BL motor, take 3 shultze 40.160 BL ESC ... take a lot of latest 40C LiPo a 13S12P should ok ... put everything in a 1/5 car ... and here you have an ultra fast car !!!

Note a 13S12P (12x3200mAh) 40C means : 70kW over 100HP ... and the weight is just 13kG in LiPo !