Losi XXX-4, Novak SS5800

[Intellion]

I'm a first time poster, long time RC driver. Been in and out of the hobby since around 1985.

I drive/bash with a Losi XXX4, and XXX 2wd buggies currently. I just picked up a Novak SS5800 brushless system and dropped it into my XXX4. Holy Cow does that system have gobs of torque! The top end is pretty high too, it really does run like a 10-12 turn brushed motor! I'm using a 20 tooth pinion with the rest of the system stock. The manual recommended a 21 or 20 tooth pinion.

When I first punched the throttle while holding the car in the air, the front and back diffs slipped! The torque of the motor was so high that I had to tighten my diffs to avoid slippage. I had a 17 turn modified brushed in before and the diffs were set up fine for that motor. I also had to tighten the belt, because when I hit reverse the belt had a tendancy to slip off the bottom pully, and skip when I hit the brakes hard from full speed.

There was a bit of extra work making the SS5800 system fit into the chassis, but I got it in there. I even left the wires stock length in case I move the SS5800 system to my other cars. Biggest problem was getting everything low enough for the body to fit snugly like it did with my standard brushed setup.

I'm really appreciating the entire system so far. It's more then fast enough for me, far more torque then any of my brushed motors, smooth acceleration (due to the low cogging, and good controller) and the 6 programs is a nice touch too. I suspect I will actually make use of the different programs when racing with friends, or taking the car to the track. I just hope brushed setups become allowed in modified classes soon. The torque is a bit higher then brushed, but the top end speed is NOT more then a brushed motor can get. So no huge advantage, I see no reason why these setups should not be allowed in the modified class soon.

Also, the expense of this hobby really gets me down sometimes. It's one of the aspects of the brushless system I'm really looking forward to the most. Not having to replace motors, or motor parts as much. No new brushes, no comm lathe, etc. I don't mind the work of maintaining a brushed motor, just the $$ of it. My old speed controller is a Novak T-4 (really old) so I needed a new speed controller anyways. My 17 turn is getting a little slow, so I would have been buying a new motor soon too. The bottom line price of a DC speed control with forward/reverse that can handle 10 turn motors is around $150, a good modified is around $60. So I was looking at spending $210 anyways soon. The brushless setup was $230 at my local hobby store. So I took the plunge.

My XXX-4 is a maintenance free rocket now, I'm totally loving it! Have any of you done the same setup? What do you think so far?

-Intellion

[CharlieS]

Great to hear, glad you like it. If you have any questions about anything, feel free to drop us an email or give us a call.

Your basic setup sound very similar to others I've heard. You should base your "gearing" on the temperature of the ESC. The ESC should finish the charge at about 160-175F. Hotter would mean you should gear with smaller pinion. 160F is about 3-4 seconds of "Thumb" time. To hot to touch for a long time, but not too hot to touch. There are very inexpensive temp guns available today if you can, or nitro guys will temp your ESC for you if you ask nicely. :)

Thanks
Charlie

[delphidude]

i had a brushless cat3000 with that car was light. the brushless would rip belts. but man it was an insane set up. i got my brushless for 175 used. i loved it. i wish i hadn't sold that car.

[gordonmoney]

Intellion, boy, you hit the nail right on the head. It's great to be able to run pack after pack of 3300's. The run time really adds up. The motor runs the same every time, there's no cooling down, there's no maintainence, the hours spent driving fly by. Your driving will improve dramatically, however, radio battery runtime starts to become an issue and you will be buying tires more often. Keep an eye on your bearings too. (sigh) Just the price you pay for more drivng. ;)

[Gutter Ball]

I managed to get a Novak Brushless in my XXX-4! I had to shorten the wires A LOT though :) She zips through the track and I can mash the throttle cause I don't have to worry about dumping!

I'm probably going all brushless in my offroad cars soon. I already run one in my XXX-T and it's great there too!

[ElectricThunder]

Brushless is just absolutely...::drool:: The novak is an awesome starting point and is great for beginners. I can't wait to get my hands on a nemesis and warrior controller...:D

[Intellion]

Here's a couple of quick pictures of my setup. Notice that my dog got his nose in the shot. He loves the car.

http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/XXX4_1.JPG
and
http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/XXX4_Brushless.JPG

[MiguelRomero]

Nice looking car you got there. Now go and race against 1/8 nitros, and make them run for their money :D

I just got the same set-up for my XXX-4, installed it last night. Darn, that thing flies!! To bad I only could run it for 3 minutes, lost control and it cartwheeled about 10 times :mad: Front shock tower is hamburger now.

Anyway, I'm using a 21 tooth pinnion with the stock 94 tooth spur gear. The car has dirt hawg tires installed, and I'm using GP's 3300. Acceleration was great, but I feel that it came a bit, just a bit short on the top-speed department. Any recommendations on gearing, shock oil wgt, and spring hardness?? Oh, btw, I'm running it on pavement.

[Intellion]

From what I understand, since the Novak Brushless systems have thermal protection you can go ahead and play with the gearing. If you push the system too hard, you'll notice the controller heating up due to the excessive high average current.

The brushless motors have gobs of torque, more then any other motor I own and that's totally appearant. With so much raw torque, I think you can go ahead and gear it up just letting the controller heat be your guide.

As for me, with stock spur/20 tooth pinion on my XXX-4, NiMH 3300 batteries, and the Novak SS5800 I think I have more then enough top end speed for all the local tracks around me. If I end up racing on a longer/faster track sometime, I'll gear it up a bit and see how it does.

[AlexV2024]

dont use the thermal cutoff as a gearing guide, thats just begging to fry it. the thermal isn't an instant, it takes time to build up egough heat to trip it, in the mean time the esc can still fry. but you do use esc temp as a gearing guide, never let it og over 160 so if you use a race gear that gets you 150 your fine. then for bashing od go one or 2 less teeth.

~Alex

[Intellion]

Thanks for the reply. I don't have a temperature checking tool. Perhaps I'll look into getting one. I heard that Novak set the thermal trip point too low, so the systems shut off earlier then they should. Meaning it would be safe to use it as a guideline. But that was hearsay, just like I'm being told from you. So one of them is probably correct, but your opinion is overal safer. I'll just do that until I see more confirmation.

I took my XXX4 to the track this weekend. It was a practice day, so I got tons of runs in and had a blast. The car was WAY too fast for that track. With a fully charged NiMH pack I had to be very soft on the throttle to keep that puppy under control. Other local drivers were really interested in seeing the brushless setup in action, they were all very impressed with it.

[LearjetMinako]

I just recently got a Novak SS5800. Same words man, "HOLY COW". This system really flys. Lots of torque everywhere on the RPM range. I don't have the Losi XXX-4, but I installed it into a TC3 rally. Can't wait to see what it does to the T-Maxx guys that rule the track. W/ so much torque, I say its the best system for off-roading. I just might have to install it in the T3 or get a Losi XXX-4 as a project car.

First time using a brushless system, will always use a brushless system now. :D

[jrc3]

When I first punched the throttle while holding the car in the air, the front and back diffs slipped! The torque of the motor was so high that I had to tighten my diffs to avoid slippage. I had a 17 turn modified brushed in before and the diffs were set up fine for that motor. I also had to tighten the belt, because when I hit reverse the belt had a tendancy to slip off the bottom pully, and skip when I hit the brakes hard from full speed.


i just picked up a used xxx-4 and dropped an ss5800 in also, but every time i hit reverse the belt pops off the tensioner pulley. i run a brushless e-maxx and thought i'd try a smaller car so i bought a xxx-t and an ss5800. man, i just can't get rear wheel drive down at the track so i'm trying the xxx-4. the tensioner bearing does have a little play w/ the pulley on, but it doesn't seem excessive to me. i'm pretty sure that i have the tensioner tight enough w/ about an 1/8 - 1/4" play, if it were tighter i think it would waste the bearing. i guess my question is; does the xxx-4 just not like reverse and especially w/ a BL setup, or is there a common fix for this. the diff pulleys seem to have minimal side to side play so that probably isn't the problem either. the car is in overall great shape so i don't think it has much run time on it. it came w/ a 9 turn single but i don't know if it was run in the it or not. i would like to have reverse, it's allowed at my track for racing and i'd like to have it for practice anyway.

also, i run at a big indoor track that used to be an old skate rink. the track is pretty torn up from the 1/8 scales and us monster truckers. it's seems to be pretty clean fill dirt w/ some clay and a few small rocks here and there. i know the rest of the 1/10 scale trucks and buggies have to run bowties or snake eyes to get any traction there. does anyone have some good tire recommendations, all i see out there are the losi studs and the rear bowties. also between the roof leaks and the 1/8 scales there are divots and ruts everywhere so i'd like to play w/ some spring combos too.

thanks a bunch, jack

my main concern is defenitly the belt problem.

[jrc3]

well the belt problem is fixxed. i thought i'd try the tensioner pulley in the opposite position in wich it was installed on the arm and it's works. there was an old pulley in the bag of used parts that i got w/ it, the guy i bought it from obviously installed the new on backwards. of course it frayed the belt a bit but it also came w/ a brand new one. i like it when it's an easy fix.

jack

[Reinhard]

hey:
whats the biggest pinion you can fit into the Losi XXX-4 ?

iam currently running a 24teeth-pinion..

but 32 or 34 teeth would be fine...

(hacker C40-10L, 6-7cells or 3s2p lipos)

Video with 6cells, first rollout (http://stud3.tuwien.ac.at/~e9625624/Videos/Losi_xxx4_first_vid_musik_kleiner.avi)
video with 6-7cells (http://stud3.tuwien.ac.at/~e9625624/Videos/LosiXXX4_Hofer_Parkplatz_mittel.wmv)
video with 3s2p Lipo (http://www262.www2.nefserver.info/Videos4/LosiXXX4_brushless_Lipo_Strasse_komprimiert.avi)

[kufman]

I just got my XXX-4 and I was able to fit the Schulze U-Force 75 and a lehner basic 4200 in the car. The car is fast on the street. Tons of torque too. Once things dry up around here, I will be able to hit the dirt. Gladd to hear that you like the brushless stuff :)

[krisI.925]

how do you guys think that set up would perform in a XXX-S? Also does the novak have reverse?

[SpEEdyBL]

Also does the novak have reverse?

Yes. I think all car systems do.

[kufman]

Pic of my setup

http://www.******.net/view_single.php?medid=46914

[pcnutz]

for some reason brushless and xxx4 always makes bald tires hehe, my xxx4 is bald too hehe

[kufman]

lol, yup I know what you mean.