Crashed my Miss Bud...Help!

[BoatRookie]

I'm hoping the impressive collective knowledge here will help me pick up the peices..so to speak:

I took my 1/12th Miss Bud out last weekend for it's second run (the 1st was a month ago or so) and I had a great time. Plenty of lake dwellers came out to see this beautiful boat rip around, which it did through two tanks of gas. Despite all the critisism I read here about the boat, it truely is a show stopper and not really that difficult for an R/C rookie like me (new to the whole thing) to start and operate. THEN, at full throttle.... DISASTER..due to a bystander in my line of sight I crashed into a floating wood dock (at an angle) and glanced off at high speed into some logs at the side of the lake.

The result was that I've cracked the hull, torn off fibleglass (at least the paint on top...the fibre beneith is still there). The front wing between the hulls has some major damage in the centre and where both front wings attach to the hull are loose and cracked. There is a long crack inside one hull (pontoon) from the leading edge down both sides about 6-8 inches and some of the paint is (leaving just the fibre beneith) is gone.

My question is..:
1)Can this be fixed?
2)If so...any suggestions on how to do this (considering I'm a rookie!)

Thanks guys for any responses!

[abx131]

Need some photos dude!!! There was another guy who did the same thing under the thread "Hydro Won't Plane" and his was a write off. It is really a case by case basis and depends on the damage incured and your knowledge of working with fiberglass work. Look at the other thread and post some pics. You will get lots of input but photos will be needed from many angles. Good luck.

[BoatDoc]

it's possible. but it may be easier to order a new hull from pro-boat. you can swap the rest of the parts into it. i think the hull is $120. if you want to repair it, you're going to have to do some major surgery. if you post some pic's i'm sure everyone around here can come up with some ideas.

[billyp]

don't buy a new hull before posting picks,The nice thing about these weak hulls is that they can be easily fixed. try to get it back in to normal shape and wet it out with westsystem epoxy and then let it cure and then use formula 27 to fare it out and prime and paint and it will be stronger than a new one and alot cheaper

[BoatRookie]

OK I'll get some picks up here asap. Thanks for your help fellas so far. billyp can you explain a little more about "wet it out", formula 27, and what type of paint would you suggest to match the red gloss already on the Miss Bud? Check back for photos guys.

[Hydro Junkie]

I would also recommend contacting Hydromania. He did something similar to a Bud and was able to rebuild it. He might have some insites to what you may want to do with the hull.

Just a note to new boaters. This is why it is preferable to have a second person with you, to act as a spotter/launcher. I know it's not always possible to have a second person, but a second person in this case might have prevented the damage. BoatRookie, please don't take it that I'm picking on you. I just hate to see boats getting damaged or destroyed, but more importantly, if something were to happen(like getting a hand into a spinning prop, etc) it's better to have someone there to help with first aid and driving in injured person to a medical facility or fire station.

[abx131]

Hey man I gave you the wrong thread about the other guy who did something similar. Look under the beginer's section for a title called "hydro will plane". It is on the first page and is fairly recent. He has some photos of a bud that hit a tree??? I prefere to run my bud on water, not grass!! Ha Ha. Anyway "hydro wont plane" is a different thread all together. I have color matched the red pretty close with a krylon hobbie line of paint. It only comes in the small spray cans, I will post the exact color code later, I have to go find it.

[BoatRookie]

Ok thanks guys..I'm going to get a digital camera tomorrow (wife lost mine) and get some picks on here.

Cheers
Boatrookie

[billyp]

boatrookie;"wet out" simply wetting the glass with the adhesive,in this case the epoxy,when you look at the glass on your bud boat you will notice that the layup is dry looking and almost white,this is a bad layup and this is why the hulls of the boats are so soft.after the epoxy has cured it should look transelucent and be very rigid as for the formula 27 ,this is simply waterproof autobody filler,i use the same materials on my r/c boats as i use on my real boats so you can get the stuff at your local boat store.the price of the epoxy is kinda high but it's well worth it in the long run.if you decide you don't want the to do the job let me no and maybe we can work something out

[abx131]

The color of the paint is made by Krylon called the "shortcut " series. The color is called "red pepper" and is a very close match. You will need to coat with a clear coat to get the shine.

[wakeracer]

BoatRookie, u could also look at the August 2004 issue of RC Boat Modeler. They have an article in there about repairing fiberglass hulls. It seems very informative. On the other hand u could also buy a brand new Miss Bud from me for $275. (never ran!) :D

[abx131]

If it turns out your hull is a loss, there are a few of us that would be interested in the hull's remains after you strip it for parts.

[abx131]

How is the repair comming along???

[LuvEvolution]

I just posted on another thread about the same thing happening to me. mine met up with a rock that jumped out from nowhere. lol . so basically, this is what I have done. the area directly behind the left sponson was cracked right through, so I used an old mastercard(yes you read right) to fix that crack. there was a huge hole on the left sponson tip so I removed that tip completely. then I got a brainwave.....why not change the look of the boat a little......so I removed the other tip also. I filled both sposon cavities with extra flotation and added foam blocks to the tips to be sanded to shape. the front wing was totalled, so that was removed, cut and relocated to the cockpit area where the small wing was. the tips were sanded to a sharp point instead of the original round tips and I sanded off all of the gelcoat finish. I went to Home Depot and purchased a glue called Pro Bond which I used as a resin and coated the entire boat with a layer of this. all of the usual sanding and a thin coat of bondo and again the usual sanding. now it just needs a cot of primer/paint/clear and it should be good as new......looks better to me also. by the way, the ready to prime boat is way lighter than the original gelcoated boat and much stronger too.

-Pro Bond glue 16.95
-bondo 3.95
-using a mastercard to fix
damaged hull priceless

[BoatDoc]

buying a new miss bud $300
modifying it so it will run $60
fuel and glow plugs $35
realizing that buying a boat just for looks is a bad idea PRICELESS!!!!

i've got one too, so i get to talk smack if i want too :D i was depressed for a total of two minutes after crashing the absolute hell out of it.

[abx131]

Hows about some photos??? I want to see the changes.

[LuvEvolution]

I will try and post pics as soon as I get my hands on a digital camera. yeah, that's right......I'm still stuck in the dark ages of film and developing costs. lol. I know I've read threads on here about the front wing being taken off and I know on the full size boat, it's there obviously for better aerodynamics, but let's face it, we aren't reaching the speed where these types of enhancers take effect anyway. so I removed mine. hope it works. been real busy lately so still waiting to paint the BUD. look on the bright side.....I know my BUD was way more wrecked than yours and I fixed mine. I'm new to all this too, so just take your time, listen to these guys on here and you'll be back out before you know it. if I can do it, so can you. good luck

[Hydro Junkie]

Actually, LuvEvolution, you ARE going fast enough to have the canard make a difference. Hydromania crashed his Bud into something(been a while so I can't remember what) and in the course of making repairs, left the canard off. He found the boat was actually more stable without the canard than with it! I know in the 1/8th scale hydros(.65 to .67 nitro powered), the boats with the canards have to have the canard adjusted to keep the boat on the water. Same goes for the horizontal rear wing on the scale boats. I've seen guys spend days adjusting the wing and canard looking for the "perfect" setup.

[LuvEvolution]

thanks for the reply Hydro Junkie. I seem to remember reading about him leaving off that front canard, but don't remember reading what the conclusive results of that omission. I just relocated that front canard to where the small wing was at the cockpit. not sure what effect that will have or not, but I'm sure I'll find out soon enough. the only negative effect I can foresee, is that the front canard is at the front for an undisturbed airflow on both "real" and "model" boats. It is far enough ahead of the body and the small canard at the cockpit, that I believe the small canard negates any adverse turbulence created by the front canard. Also.......the canard at the cockpit would most likely "destroy" any drag enducing "boundary layer" air. On the real boat, that would have a great effect, but it is my experience that smaller models do not share these same characteristics as the full scale does. I am an aircraft engineer by trade and know this to be true due to extensive wind tunnel testing on various aircraft parts. This is all purely experimental of course and I doubt that-while I am agreeing with you-that aerodynamics takes as big an effect at 30ish MPH as they do at 100-200MPH. the downside to my placement of the canard at the cockpit would be that the aerodynamic "wash" off the canard might create too much turbulence over the body of the boat.....particularly over the top of the boat. to counteract this, I have inverted the canard so that the greatest curve is now on the bottom. I believe this will "spill" more turbulence under the boat adding to the cushion effect rather than the lifting effect of going over the boat. time and testing will tell for sure and I'll keep you posted. talk to you later.

[abx131]

It may blow over like leaf in the wind.

[Hydro Junkie]

Time to clear up a little misinformation. The "small canard" isn't a canard at all. It's actually a fairing covering the front spar. The front spar does three things:
1) it supports the front of the cockpit
2) it gives the stearing cables a route to the rudder through the right side
3) it gives the sponsons more stiffness from side to side

Neither the canard or spar affect the airflow into the ramwing in the least, The canard works like the flying stabilizer on an F16, allowing the driver to force the front of the boat down before it gets high enough to blow over. It's also mounted high enough to be above the ramwing's leading edge, negating any possible ill effects.

Now it's time for a history lesson. The first flying canard was tried on the Turbine Pay N' Pak back in 1981. It was mounted just ahead of the ramwing, with disasterous consequences. When the canard was flat, it acted like an extension of the ramwing, causing no ill effects. When it was activated to hold the boat on the water, however, it actually helped blow the boat over. You are probably asking how this could be, and the answer is simple. By having the canard so close to the ram wing, it caused a vacuum over the leading edge, helping to lift the boat off the water and inducing a blow over. This is why the 1982 Atlas Van Lines had the canards further forward, as well as fixed in place. It wasn't until 1983 that the designers realized what was happening and figured out a way to make the canards a control surface. They figured out that if they enclosed the front spar in a wing, putting movable flaps on the back half, they would work. That design was standard until 1994 with the Budweiser T4 hull. As of now, only the Fred Leland designed hulls have the fixed canard, all the rest have either been replaced with Budweiser clones or retrofitted with the flying canards. In short, you may want to remove the canards all together, or as ABX said, "It will blow right off the water."

[billyp]

hydro,abx and luvr,i finnally got my .21 miss bud running and now it just needs some fine tunning and paint and what i have found with the canard is that it holds the bow closer to the water at higher speeds, the reason i can say this is because i've seen the effects of stock speed and (well kinda stock).21 speed and it seems the faster the boat goes the closer the bow is to the water i'm sure it has alot to do with different prop angles,I've had the .21 boat between 40 and 45mph so far but i have yet to go WOT,the one thing i can say for sure is the .21 boat boat handles much better in the turns and on the staights but it also has totaly diffent hardware and the extra 8 oz. cant hurt

[Hydro Junkie]

Wait till you move up to .45 and .67 powered boats. Speed, size and power, what else can I say? I think ABX will agree with me on that one :)

[dhutch]

let me see it !!!

[abx131]

After seeing the 1/8 scale, my 1/12 miss bud is like a radio shack boat.

[billyp]

i cant get the pic small enough to post on this sight,hydro i have .45 tunnel on the bench now thats waiting for paint and a .21 outrigger on the way my next boat will be either .45-.67 hydro or cat hull but need to find the rite price got anything in mind

[Hydro Junkie]

Build it yourself. If you want a .45 sized hydro, get a set of plans from Newton Marine, scale them down to about 36" and have at it. The best ones to scale down are the ones with simple cowlings like the 1973 Pay N' Pak through 1881 Miss Madison, the 1977-81 Atlas, the 1982-83 Atlas, the 1981 Executone and all the paint schemes it carried just to name a few. If you want a .67, same deal, except you don't have to scale them down and many of the cowls and tail sets can be purchased made from fiberglass. There are also a few guys that build fiberglass hulls, if you would rather go that way. The Pay N' Pak hull is especailly good for scaling down as it's all square corners on the cowling, making it doable with 1/32nd ply. It's also fairly easy to make an engine cowl for that particular hull. If you like a challenge, you can build several versions with exposed engines and build a dummy Rolls Merlin or Turbo Allison to cover the nitro power plant. Now aren't you sorry you asked? :D

[LuvEvolution]

thanks for the reply Hydro Junkie. I think I'll take your advise and remove that canard completely then. don't want any unwanted blowovers now do we? as for BillyP.......can you possibly put any pics on here of your conversion, or perhaps some info on how you went about the installation, etc.. I kinda want to go with a bigger motor but don't know how large I can go. I don't get on here very often, but I do check from time to time. talk to you all later.

[suck my wake]

hydro i think everyone on this site is going to be building a hydro from newton soon im even gonna try the 1995 dewalt

[abx131]

I cant help but wondeer if HJ is on Roger's payrol. I hope he is at least giving you free plans.

[decoy706]

I want to try a Cotton Chisel nose hydro but haven't found the plans yet

[Watercadet]

Ira is a Bud! See him every now and again at the club races. Those super salamis are quick!
Adam

[Hydro Junkie]

A 95 Dewalt? Why would you want that one? Okay, gotta admit I hate the paint job on that one :D If you do start to build it, let me know. I can give you the dimensions from the boat(as I myself measured them :) ) for the picklefork depth, the correct bottom dimensions and the size/location of the canard. Now if you REALLY want to go scale, I can drive you crazy with dimensions not even shown on Rogers plans :D

And NO I'M NOT ON ROGER'S PAYROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As much as I plug him, maybe I should be :D

A word of advice on ordering plans. AVOID USING PAYPAL. I know he uses it, but I would recommend sending him a SNAILMAIL with a cashiers check. That way, you can be sure he gets the payment with an order. Be sure to send a letter stating EXACTLY what you want, as well as your name, address, E-mail address and phone number. That way, if he has to get ahold of you, he has all the info ;)

Uh, Decoy, what's a "COTTON CHISEL NOSE HYDRO"? I found two plans in Roger's site for chisel nose hydros. Plan 129 is an Atlas Van Lines and plan 139 is the Valu Mart. I think the Valu Mart might be what you're looking for :)

[decoy706]

HJ
It's the one Al Water's runs as O'berto had a link to a builders address but lost it and Cotton's name was on it. Cool looking boat

[Hydro Junkie]

Check out Newtons site and see if either one is what you're looking for

[suck my wake]

wow maybe i shouldnt build one cuz i dont know what a pickle fork is. is that measurement if i want it to be as scale as possible. Like i could just go with the plans. Also what kind of motor and hardware i most people running i know i wont need to know this for a while but might as well ask now. i would like to run a gas motor though.

[suck my wake]

oh and your answer to why that one im surprised you couldnt guess but im a union carpenter.

[Watercadet]

Ira Cotton designed plans for a chissel nose scale boat. If you go to any NAMBA scale events you will see Al Waters there with is supper salami that his good ol' buddy Ira cotton had a hand on. The plans used to be available on RCBM. Are they no longer there? I can get a hold of Al if you need to see about some plans. You can too, he is on Intlwaters.com under ALWaters .
Adam

[Hydro Junkie]

A picklefork is at the front of all non-round nosed hydros. It refers to the recessed area between the sponsons. Almost all hydros built after 1971 are picklefork boats. You can build the boat using just Roger's plans, but there are incorrect measurements in some areas. The dimensions I have are for a pure scale look and are not needed to have a good looking boat. As far as engines go, any good .67 will work in the 1/8th scale boats. For ease of installation, make sure whatever engine you buy has a front exhaust(over the driveshaft). Hardware is kinda sorta up to you. You need engine mounts(preferably rubber damped), a skid fin and bracket, rudder and bracket, driveline(flex or solid, it's your preferance), stuffing box and strut. Of course, you will need a prop, drivedog and retaining nut.
I can see now why you would want to build a Dewalt(but I still hate the paintjob :D )

[suck my wake]

is there any way i can use a gas engine. like a zenoah

[Hydro Junkie]

Increase the size of the boat up to about 1/6th scale :) It will take a litle tweeking of the engine bay, but a Zen will fit. You will be looking at a boat about 60" long and 29" wide, so it will be big :D I was talking to one of the guys at B H Hanson about mine and was told the best way to go is a full race modded G260. I've seen about half a dozen of these big boats and have driven a 1958 Wildroot Charlie with a Hanson Indy modded G230. Believe me, it's cool to see these big monsters tearing up the lake :D

[decoy706]

WC
Plans are long gone from RCBM and the Newton's don't match what I saw of Al's maybe they were modified.Sure would like to find Cotton's plans as it looks like a fun boat.
BTW was outbid on the Bud again for those counting Oh well

[suck my wake]

do they make a clutch for a .67 sized nitro engine or anything like that for a hydro.

[Hydro Junkie]

I've seen nitro motor clutches in the RCBM Buyers Guide in the past, but I don't remember who makes them. You aren't thinking about puting on in a hydro are you?

[suck my wake]

yup why would that be a bad idea

[Hydro Junkie]

To me, it's a bad idea. The idea of having a hydro is to GO FAST AND TURN RIGHT. A clutch on a nitro hydro means:
1) More weight, making the boat slower
2) A more complex cooling system, as a water pump is required to keep water flowing to the engine to prevent overheating
3) Having to tap the engine case for a pressure line to operate above listed water pump. This requires disassembly of the engine as well as drilling and tapping the case for a pressure fitting. this can make the engine run lean if the fitting doesn't seal completely or if the pressure line leaks in any way
4) It voids the warrenty if the engine is new and in the "under warranty" period
5) Higher maintenance costs and time required to keep clutch working
6) Less reliability, as the clutch adds one more thing to break in the driveline
7) A more crowded engine bay, making maintenance that much harder to do

Is it worth all that just to be able to stop in the middle of the lake?

[suck my wake]

ok i suppose your right theres alot of negatives for one positive

[suck my wake]

ok i suppose your right theres alot of negatives for one positive. Might as well tack on one more auestion where do u people get your plywood from i looked online and the only place i saw was house of balsa and they said you cant order it from them so i had to go to my local hobby shop which basicly the have a couple planes and stuff but they had to order it and they said probably two weeks.

[Hydro Junkie]

Try Sig Manufacturing at www.sigmfg.com. They sell all the various thicknesses you will need. Another option is if there is a small airport around, you might check and see if there is a local source of aircraft grade ply in larger sheets. I know here in the Puget Sound Basin, we have B&D International. They carry all the aircraft plywoods in 60X60 inch sheets, though I've been told you can get larger.
If you do order through Sig, here is a list of what you will need:
1) 1 12X24 OR 36 inch 1/4" FIVE PLY for the transom and sponson transoms and doublers
2) 2 12X48X1/8" FIVE PLY for the sponson inside lengthwise frames, sponson shears, engine bay and belly pan walls and a couple of small parts
3) 5 12X48 inch 1/16" THREE PLY for all internal cross frames, sponson framing and skin for the entire hull.
4) 12 SPRUCE 1/4' Square stock 48" long for all the stringers running lengthwise in the boat, as well as glue blocks. I used 1/4X1/8X36" for the stringers along the top of the engine bay walls and inboard of the sponson insides along the top where the deck gets glued, as they are much easier to bend. If you decide to do the same, replace four of the 1/4" square with four 1/4X1/8X36" stock.
5) If you have any scrap PINE 2X4 blocks, you can use them to make the ram wing leading edge
You will also need a building jig to make sure the hull is not twisted. I use a piece of particle board 24X48X1/2 and an 8' 2X2. My jig is not hard to build, but it also doesn't give an exact bottom pattern to go by. I rip the particle board so one piece is a snug fit between the sponson insides. This is easiest to do with the transom cut out and a couple pieces of 1/8th ply scrap in the slots for the sponson insides, that way you can be sure you get it right. Next, cut the 2X2 in half so you have two 48" lengths and attach them to the particle board so they are flush with the long edges. They give you a more solid surface to clamp to, as well as stiffening the board. Next rip the remaining particle board and fasten the pieces to the inside of the 2X2s. This gives you legs to lift the jig for easier clamping. At this point, all you need is plans to get started. Any more questions :D

[suck my wake]

i do have a couple more How do i go about making the wing and the cowling as i see no real patterns are given i know i could probably do it with wood on the wing but i dont know about the cowling

[Hydro Junkie]

I've get one source for the wing and tails and a second source for a cowling. One word of advice is to get the cowling BEFORE you start building. The reason is you need to be able to line up the cowling with the cockpit sidewalls. This is considerabley easier with the boat just being started instead of almost finished

[suck my wake]

i think im gonna try and make the wing but how would i get the cowling i was thinking of trying to make a fam one then fiberglassing but there is enough info on the plans in my eyes

[Hydro Junkie]

Do you mind running that by me again?

[suck my wake]

you said you have a source for the cowling in which i would like to know but im gonna try and make the wing