Strut/Rudder options

[OldStyle]

Hey guys, nobody was replying to my questions about hardware in my "time for a new hull" thread so I am starting a new one. I have my 51" deepV hull now and a stock 260 zen on the way. I wanted to know if I can go with a strut with rudder as one or if I should go with a duel rudder seperate from the strut... Also wondering how I know what size of strut and rudder to get. Same with trim tabs. Well... I guess I need to know what I need for a drivline too as far as flex cable or whatever. I wont be using a clutch right now but would like to add one later on if possible. One last question... I was told I needed a cut piston for the zen to use a tuned pipe or something? Any help would be great... I have about a month before the snow flys here so I might have a chance of getting it wet this year I hope. Oh... One last thing, any prop recomends for this boat also... I was told a 80mm prop. Is a Prather 275 close? octura x472 or 482?

Thanks guys for all the help so far and for the help I will recive later...

John

[OldStyle]

Forgot to mention I assume this is going to be a submerged prop setup unless surface would be better.

These are recomend's for submerged

X460/3, X465, X665, 1465, 1662 1470, 2167/3, X467, X470, X670, 1567

Surface

X470, X472, X670, 1567 X482, 1967

I am to new at this to be able to know what I need

[OldStyle]

Like this

[Chris LaPanse]

BTW- a surface drive is Definitely the best setup. If you can, get a Warehouse Hobbies Spd III surface drive with Uni-Strut dual rudders. (www.whobbies.com). I have that setup, and it absolutely FLIES, and it also turns on a dime. If you are on a little more of a budget, i've heard their XP drive works well too

[scottericsonon]

ive also heard good things about tonys setup although i went with speedmaster stuff for mine

u need a 1/4 inch cable drive

from all the research ive heard id recommend the surface drive also

lotta fun here

https://www.dynasite.net/site100-01/1001414/explore.cfm?p=N&store=Y&U=1&SS=1&S=1001414

personally id try to buy everything off of one shop

be a little easier to shop and they will know what should go with what

we want pictures

scott

[OldStyle]

Ok I can go with surface drive... What makes it a surface drive? What is different about the strut? Or is it location of mounting

Will a surface drive plane up using a clutch (dead stop in water) Im use to my tunnel and it would take a bit to get it back up on plane if I slowed right down

I am going to go with the spd III and uni duel rudders.... I assume that drive system is the same size ( 1 size fits all ) Do I need a stuffing tube, or whatever its called... I assume they are for the drive cable going out the bottom? This drive looks like it goes out the back of the hull.

1/4 inch drive cable is bought in a lengh and then cut to size? I also need to decide on motor mounts fuel tank and a pipe.... Im still not sure about needing a piston mod to use a tuned pipe... Anybody know..

[Chris LaPanse]

A syrface drive means the prop is actually breaking the surface at speed. This allows you to run a larger prop for more acceleration and greater efficiency. (Also, the roostertail looks cool :D). The pic you posted looks like Tony C.'s XP drive. For more information, E-Mail Tony C. on Warehouse Hobbie's tech support e-mail, or better yet, call him. He has been hand building large gas boats for longer than Ihave been alive (literally). The drive system should fit your boat (as it says it fits from 46" to 60" hulls) As for the acceleration, it depends as much on the engine as the hull, but, with a Zen. 260, it should be fine. Mine weighs 22lbs, and with an EZ-25 (WH modified Zen. 260) that puts out 4hp @ 13000, it literally jumps up on plane. As for the tuned pipe, it should bolt right on, and if your engine is watercooled, i would reccomend Warehouse's wet tuned pipe. Sound's great, performance is great, and it runs cool too, thanks to the water cooling. Good luck. :D Also, the Spd III is a surface drive, and in my highly biased opinion, one of the best out there. Easy to adjust, and it bolts right on.

[OldStyle]

I have seen some pics with hulls that have 4 chrome tips comming out for exhaust. How is the quad exhaust for performance?

Im going to get the Spd III with the 2 rudder setup, It looks nice (quality) and I trust your guys information I decided not to cheap out on this one. Now its down to all hardware but drive system. I dont think I can do a clutch and a pipe when I want to. I sorta need a pipe so thats what im looking at now. I will check out WH wet pipe.

Anyone have input on the BONZÍ 4 Point Quick Release Mounts?

[Ron Olson]

Don't run a prop from Octura with a 2 number prefix like 14xx or 21xx, these are lifting props which like the name says, lifts the back of the boat, not a good thing on a deep-vee hull unless they have been modified.

[OldStyle]

Thanks ron, I will stick to a 2 bladed X at about 72 to 80 mm.... surface prop

[Chris LaPanse]

Yep. As for the quad exhaust, WH makes one of those (water cooled) too, but it doesn't have the performance of a good tuned pipe.
Here is my setup. The pipe is the WH wet tuned (lower left), and the hardware is SPD III dual rudder. The prop is (i think) a Prather 275. Here is what it should look like all installed in the boat. The tuned pipe (if you get it) should come out at about the waterline.

[OldStyle]

right on... What kinda speed are you getting out of it? A clutch will come with everything up front but the flex cable right? Like a bonzi clutch...

What happens right where the cable passes out the hull? Could you post some close ups of these areas so I can see how it works? As I said before this is my 1st gas boat and 1st inboard.

[Doubledog]

You do not always have to buy parts from the maker of the hulls. Thats how they tend to gig you a bit harder because you know you're getting an exact part for an exact boat & a lot of times, its newbies shopping so they're afraid to go anywhere's else.

I learned the hard way on my first gas boat and will not do it again.

Example: The XP Drive.... Its all Octura. How many places sell Octura gear on the web?

When I busted my drive on a submerged log, I immediately ran to the seller of the boat to buy the replacement parts. All I can say is OUCH in my hip pocket.

Fortunatly for me, someone from this site emailed me and explained the same thing I'm doing but in open forum for everyone to bust my chops about. That taught me how to shop around and not be afraid to check into other items.

Another Example again: XP drive... Look at Rocket City Racings website.

If you don't know what to buy, give Brian a call. Tell him you want an XP drive setup. He knows what your'e talking about. Get the price and then compare. It will flip your lid when you see the differences. Their site is down right now or I'd be happy to post an exact setup off their pages.

Drive shafts......... Oh this is another good one. Measure the shaft you need and ask someone to build you some. I've got mine made for as little as $15 ea. Consider I've got 6 of them for the two Gator boats.

My point in this is that I hate to see folks get hurt. Not wanting to be an A^^$#@! about it. I practice what I preach with this and will not settle for less. The person that bought my boat insisted on buying everything from the builder. Even after dozens of emails showing comarison links etc... and how you can still do a "ONE-Stop Shop" he's thrown money out the door. The boat could've been built for peanuts, but now its as much as a new one would run.

Peace.

[OldStyle]

I see

Well the hull was from vern, motor is a bonzi off ebay (new) Im looking into the bonzi mounts too. Pipe im still looking around, and the drive im looking at whobbies. I think I gotta get ahold of someone on the phone and get a idea of everything I need

[Doubledog]

Olstyle, I like your style...:)

Call Rocket City and he'll save you about $30 or more on the same setup. Is that worth your while? There are other places to buy, just RCR comes to mind first.

[OldStyle]

Thanks DD

Got the zen260 a bit cheaper then off the bonzi sight and cheaper then anywhere else I saw. I was going to dish out the 375 US for the full mod one from a canadian hobbyshop but they were not responding to me so I left it. It would of been a bit over 6hp and 17000 rpm. I picked up my new zen for about 210.

I looked a RCR for the spd III and did not see it, I will give them a call monday when im home for lunch and see what they have. I see this strut

http://www.rocketcityracing.com/pilot.asp?pg=products&specific=jnnngoi8

Its only $10 cheaper then the spdIII tho.

Once my deck is attached to the hull I will have little room to play around so I think im going to pick up bonzi quick release mounts, they are only 60 sum bucks and look like nice quality. I havent seen mounts very much cheeper

http://www.bonzisports.com/mounts.html

I assume a pipe will make a big difference, I do plan on going with whobbies wet pipe as recomended.

[Chris LaPanse]

That's because they don't have the spdIII. WH makes it themselves. It's the XP drive that's made by octura. Also, soon (as soon as I load/resize them) I should have those closeups of the drive that you wanted.

[scottericsonon]

hey old

i dealt with brian at RCR when i built my cat

i was super happy with everything i go and he really knew his "chit"

there was a few items that i hadnt made a decision on and basicly told him what i was building and what did he recommend

hell know what all works with what

scott

[Doubledog]

I get to standing on my soap box about the XP drive and preach to the wrong crowd.

The SPD drive is very good from what folks have said. It leaves a little to be desired a far as looks but still good quality and not that bad. :)

This is the best part to me.

[OldStyle]

Im open to opinions. I will spring for either. SPD does look good..

[Chris LaPanse]

I think the SPD is better than the XP drive. It is easy to adjust (1 screw) and I like that the drive is seperate from the rudders. Also, I like the handling a little better (comparing my Manta to a Super G), but that is just personal preference.

[Doubledog]

Chris, how about starting a thread with some of your boat on the stand, & some of it moving out?


*edited for sure. Whew. :o :o :o :o :o



.

[Chris LaPanse]

Whoops sorry :o !!! I should have thought more before posting this!! Sorry!. Ill think about that. (sorry, it was early and I wasn't thinking) Also, if you want pics of my boat, just look at the thread "new to rc boats" by gotitmadecij. He got a Magnum, and I posted pics of my new Manta in response there too.

[Doubledog]

OH SH*** !!!

Re-READ THE POST.............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Chris, I meant to say how about starting a thread of your boat "on the stand & 'it' moving out... on the water etc......


Damn, typing so fast & clicked the reply button before pre-reading the post.

My BAD !

Going to try and edit it now.

[OldStyle]

im going with the SPD

[Chris LaPanse]

OK. Later in the afternoon (as soon as I get the pics loaded off my camera and resized), I'll post the thread that DD requested, and it'll have some more detailed pics of the rudders/surface drive.

[OldStyle]

got a package put together by tony at whobbies. I am going with the quad exhaust cause I like to looks of it and its just a fun boat. I assume a tuned pipe wont affect speed and power drastic over this exhaust will it?

[Hydro Junkie]

Yes it will. A tuned pipe is kind of like a supercharger to the two stroke engines. How a pipe works has been gone over in several threads, so I'm not going to go into it here.

[OldStyle]

Hmmm well I dont want to turn a zen into a homelite so maybe I should just stick to the tuned pipe. I know how a pipe works... Nobody has told me yet if I need to do anything to the stock zen to use a tuned pipe. I was told I had to have a cut piston or something

[Hydro Junkie]

Not that I know of. I bought a 230 from B H Hanson and what I got for the exhaust(header, mounting flange and tuned pipe) just bolted right to the engine. Unless Tony's doing soomething different that I don't know about, it should be the same with your Zen.

[Chris LaPanse]

My wet tuned pipe, which is the WH version, bolted right on. Pretty standard method of installation, just bolt the header to the engine, slide the coupler and tuned pipe on, route it out the back of the boat, and hook up the water cooling. No engine mods required. Also, as HJ said, a good tuned pipe can up your power by 30% or more.

[OldStyle]

I see

This was a canada hobby shop (im in canada) all they said was a stock zen was 420CND and that it included the modded (cut) piston to use with a tuned pipe. They never got back to me so I ordered the motor from bonzi on ebay. 420 was way to much anyways. For 40 more I could of got the 6hp @16000 rpm from them "need for speed hobbies" I was going to but then they told me the boat had to be light to use that motor or it wouldnt perform... I dont know... Whats light, they never told me.

[Chris LaPanse]

I think they were either BSing you, or they didn't know what they were talking about. A tuned pipe bolts to the outside of the engine-it is not internal.

[OldStyle]

Ya I have no idea, either way they lost my business for good because of poor comunication. It shouldnt matter if its just 1 guy looking for a motor if theres no customer satisfaction eventualy there wont be any customers. I know lots of ya like rocket city too but they are also not responding to me. Bonzi, whobbies have been great.. This is why im getting everything I need between the 2. I havent tried others like bh hanson or anything. Im sure RCR is great, just gave me a bad impression when they never responed to me asking for a price on some hardware. I will pay the price difference for good comunication and a offer for any help needed over the phone.

I am going to go with whobbies clutch/iso pad setup as well as the spd and 2 rudder setup. Also decided on the tuned wet pipe from there. They gave me a list of everything I needed right down to the antenna and knocked $75 off the total price. I dont want everything they listed tho so im just going to get what I need.

So right now im at a standstill, just been looking at the hull sitting there waiting to be filled with goodies. I plan on putting a order in soon (after the weekend) so untill then im just making sure I am getting everything I need

[Chris LaPanse]

Quick question-why not? If you could get everything at $75 off, why wouldn't you? Or did you already have some of it?

[OldStyle]

Ya just because I dont need all of it, it wouldnt really make a diff because the stuff I dont need is cheep. The $$$ stuff is strut, rudder, clutch and pipe.

[Hydro Junkie]

The guys at B H Hanson are easy to deal with, or at least they have been for me. Now then, what's that line of crap you were given about having to have a lite hull for an engine to perform? That's like saying a Dodge 440 Magnum needs to be mounted in a go cart. Any engine will perform regardless of how heavy the hull is. You have to play with the prop selection a little more to get the top speed out of the boat, but it will perform. Actually, if you have a heavier hull, you want a hotter engine to push it with. Case in point, have you ever seen a Chevy Luv pull a loaded semi trailer? It doesn't have the suspension or engine output to do that. Now you hook up a semi tractor with a big high torque diesel under the hood, the trailer is on the move. You want more power out of the diesel, put on a tubocharger. In the case of your boat, the turbocharger is the tuned pipe. Sounds like someone was feeding you a line. Just out of curiosity, what part of the "Great White North" are you from? I have friends all over British Columbia, so........................

[Ron Olson]

OldStyle, Brian Watts puts in 16-18 hour days to try to keep his business going plus they have some little problems down there in Florida lately called Hurricanes.

[Doubledog]

OldStyle, Brian Watts puts in 16-18 hour days to try to keep his business going plus they have some little problems down there in Florida lately called Hurricanes.

You aint' lying ! :eek:

[Chris LaPanse]

Yep, although Tony is also down there (although I'm not sure if it really hit him or not)

[OldStyle]

I emailed RCR 3 weeks ago.... 2x

Here are the emails I got from NFS hobbies....

"You may not need the full mods to the engine, where the boat is a little on the heavy side.The engines are designed to turn over 16,000 rpm under load, so in a heavy
hull that may not be possible."

Heres the one about the cut piston...

"we do have stock G260 Zenoahs, they are $xxx.00 each, with a cut piston. If you dont cut the piston it will lock up in the cylinder when used with a
tuned pipe."

It dont matter now anyways, I gave up on them for my motor. I would have liked the modded zen tho. it was rated at 6hp @16000 rpm for 375US. Oh well.... I can do mods to my stock one next season.

Im not in BC im in saskatchewan, BC is about 15 hours west from here. I was there this summer though on my trip to the rocky mountians.

[Chris LaPanse]

If that engine really is that cheap with that power, then I have just two questions:
1: When did they sneak into Bonzi and steal them?
2: Since when does 1hp=2hp?

Honestly, the stock Zen. should have more than enough horsepower for a while, and when you do want more power, there are better options (can anyone say Quickdraw: 7+hp at 17000 rpm)

[OldStyle]

Ya it did seem cheap for 6 hp. I hope I can get 40+ mph out of this hull with the stock zen. Im not sure how fast my 7.5 lapcat is... Im sure this gasser will be faster. I also hope it wont be as bad to tune and stuff as a nitro motor. What kind of oil do you recomend?

[OldStyle]

http://needforspeedhobbies.com/zenoahengines.htm

Link for the place I have been talking about....