U-Force with Novak motor

[Greg15]

I finally bought myself a U-Force 75 and am now waiting for Jamie to get some more Shadow motors, but in the mean time want to know what settings people use with the Novak motor. I ran the set up in my T4 for a few packs on Hard timing and Frequency of 16k. Whats the best settings to use?

I found out what cogging is as well, I never knew it would be as bad as it was.

[TheSteve]

I would suggest soft timing and a drive frequency of 8 or 16 Khz - whichever keeps things cooler. The Novak motor does cog a lot with Schulze controllers, it seems to be related to the motor wind type Novak is using. You will be a million times happier with the Shadow...(and expect very very little or no cogging.)

[Craps]

Greg15
I did not know you could run a sensored motor with a sensorless ESC. If you are racing off road on a tight track, the Plettenberg Extreme will be a better choice motor unless you just need a lot of power with no throttle finace or no smooth throttle response, go with the Shadow. The torque of the Extreme is greater than any 540 or 400 size motor in my arsenal of motors, but I will admit I have not test the Shadow yet. I was going to test it yesterday and ran out of time due to chassis and shock combo testing was more important to hook up the Extreme. I can't imagine hooking up that top end power of the Shadow.

Good Luck!

PS. 16khz and medium timing with the Plettenberg motors.

[nicholcgn]

Craps,

I have a t4 and I am looking at trying something different than a Novak in the brushless. I would like a controller that will do both Brushed and Brushless. I think you are running a t4. What would you recommend. I like the way the Novak 5800 works in my buggy. I am planning on adding lipo in the 7.4 volt pack in the future.
I was thinking about the lrp. On a tight track will I see much if any cogging?

[starluckrc]

The lrp will limit your motor choices. Get the U-Force 75. It will run practically any brushed or brushless motor you want for 1/10.

[Greg15]

Thanks guys.

I'm looking at a Shadow because the system will not end up in the T4, I will probably run the Novak set up in that and run the U-Force and Shadow in my Yokomo SD and my Yokomo MR4BC.

I had seen pics of a car with the Novak motor and a sensorless esc, they just had the sensor wires coiled up, so gave it a try and it works great, just bad cogging, but said, its the design of the Novak motor.

Hope those motors turn up soon Jamie, can't wait.

[SpEEdyBL]

does the novak motor run faster with the sensorless esc than on novak's esc?

[glassdoctor]

Some have said here before that the Novak seemed a little more powerful with a high end esc. I don't recall who it was or what esc it was though.

[ElectricThunder]

It was the dude with the evader, but he was also running 12 cells, and 13 smoked the motor. :D

If I may ask a question (sorry to steal the thread), but will any sensorless ESC work with a sensored motor? Say for example, a phoenix 80. Will that be compatible with a novak? Or even a warrior 7018?

[Craps]

Craps,

I have a t4 and I am looking at trying something different than a Novak in the brushless. I would like a controller that will do both Brushed and Brushless. I think you are running a t4. What would you recommend. I like the way the Novak 5800 works in my buggy. I am planning on adding lipo in the 7.4 volt pack in the future.
I was thinking about the lrp. On a tight track will I see much if any cogging?

Like Jamie said with www.starluckrc.com, the Schulze U-Force 75 ESC is the best controller on the market for 1/10th scale and will also run brushed motors. I highly recommend getting the Plettenberg Extreme for racing the T-4 and the Shadow for all out speed or that rare track that has a real long straight a way.

The Schulze U-Force 75 ESC and the Plettenberg motors are not the cheapest, but I feel they are the highest quality and best ESC/motors on the market.

Jamie's web site might not list the U-Force 75 or Plettenberg motors, but he does sell them at a good price. He also has Li-Pos to sell too! E-mail him for special pricing.

Good Luck!

[glassdoctor]

[QUOTE=ElectricThunder]
will any sensorless ESC work with a sensored motor? [QUOTE]

Yes, as I understand. Both sensored and sensorless motors are constructed the same way, minus the sensor wiring. So the Novak can be hooked up to any bl controller, but without the sensor wires. The sensorless controller doesn't know there are some unused wires hanging around.

In other words, a sensorless controller is too "dumb" to know what type motor it's running.

[Craps]

This maybe a dumb question, then why even have sensor wires?

The Novak sensored system is nowhere near as good as a Schulze U-Force 75 sensorless ESC with a sensorless Plettenberg 4 pole motor.

[TheSteve]

Building a good sensored brushless system is easier(and likely cheaper) then a good sensorless system. Its also much easier to control the "feel" of the ESC as you always know precisely where the armature is sitting. In a sensorless system the ESC has to listen for echos(back EMF) coming back down the motor wires to determine what the motor is doing and the position of the armature. The quality of that software determines how good a sensorless system is.(and if you've used a few different ESC's you know many companies struggle to get a really good feel, especially in cars/trucks)

[glassdoctor]

Well, the sensored systems have some benefits like the ability to precisely control rpm, which results in zero cogging. I'm sure there are things I'm not aware of...

The new LRP will have adjustable "drag" brake... I don't think you could ever have this with a "dumb" controller, because it needs real time feedback... just like antilock brake systems in real cars.

Actually, a sensored bl system could probably have real ABS and even some form of traction control with the right software. At least it could have a precise throttle advance curve, like a "smart" electronic slipper.

[TheSteve]

Dragbrakes don't have any feedback at all, they are just small amounts of braking. The Schulze U-Force has that feature, but you need the U-Soft programming software to use it.

[OptimaMan]

You know, in theory, electric RC cars all have "antilock" brakes. The brakes work by essentially shorting out the motor leads. The faster it's spinning, the harder it'll brake - but it'll never actually lock up - it might appear to lock up, but it never truly locks up. So, it's "anti-lock"! Hahaha

Right out of the box, the U Force 75 seems to have a little drag brake... at least it feels that way when running with my Hacker C40 12 S vs. when I ran the 12.97 on a Basic 3100. Maybe it's the cars...

[Greg15]

I didn't think there was a big difference, probably slightly quicker with the U-Force.

[glassdoctor]

Well, the LRP has different "drag brake" settings that work independent of the throttle trims. So you can have a small amount of drag brake if you like without messing up the deadband of the throttle. You still have all the throttle adjustments on your radio to play with, and you don't need a fancy radio for that matter. The speedo does the job outta the box. I could be all wrong but that's what I have got so far...

On my Novak, I just dial in a slight amount of brake on the throttle neutral trim if I want some drag brake. This works, but it's not ideal, and it's not so great for running in reverse mode. Then the car will want to back up whenever you are stopped... ;)

Hey, my Novak is in my XX4 right now and I have a natural drag brake from the car's drivetrain. :0 No freewheel coasting for me :)

Anyway, in theory, you can't get any smoother than a sensored system. The best a sensorless system can do is match it.

The U75 is the most versatile 1/10 controller right now, hands down. I wish we could get it under the $200 barrier though. It would really rock then... like $189. That sounds a lot better than $289 ouch. ;)

[Craps]

The Schulze U-Force 75 ESC has the drag brake that can only be set with a PC like TheSteve said, Schulze calls it "Automatic Brake" and I programmed mine for 40% in my truck to help set it up on corner entry. I really like it versus the Hacker MC's radio drag brake set up.

It really helps to set up the U-Force 75 with the PC link up and dial the radio throttle settings to perfection along with the drag brake.

[glassdoctor]

Cool, that's good to know Schulze programed a drag brake setting... but too bad you have to spend even more on the PC link. That makes the cost @ $350 for a U75.

[Craps]

Jamie with www.starluckrc.com has the U-Force 75 for $280 and the PC link for another $55 and a Plettenberg Extreme or Shadow motor for $175. Jamie is the cheapest around as far as I know with this equipment and may make you a good deal if you buy all 3 as a combo package.

Good Luck!

[ElectricThunder]

[QUOTE=ElectricThunder]
will any sensorless ESC work with a sensored motor? [QUOTE]

Yes, as I understand. Both sensored and sensorless motors are constructed the same way, minus the sensor wiring. So the Novak can be hooked up to any bl controller, but without the sensor wires. The sensorless controller doesn't know there are some unused wires hanging around.

In other words, a sensorless controller is too "dumb" to know what type motor it's running.
Thank you for that clarification!:)