help with 6 cell NiMh speed setup for XXX-S ?

[D.J.]

Hey there. I am looking to get into the wonderful world of brushless RC but i need some help. I want to run normal 6 maybe 7 cell NiMh packs 3000mah - 3300 mah. My goal is to get into the 50mph club. Now for the questions. $ is not really a problem but under $500 would be nice. What motor and controler would bring me up to the 50mph mark ? what kind of run time could i expect out of this setup ? will i need a reciever pack ? And is one of these brushless setups going to cook the parts off my as of now pansy losi XXX-S ? By the way I dont race but I like a good mix of low end and high end power. Any help would be great and thanks for your time/advice in advance. D.J.

[Mr. Constructor]

OK, so you want to have the circle made out of a square ??

J/k ;-)

As for a speed setup: (1st esc then Motor)
1x Schulze U Force 75 with a Plettenberg Shadow
1x Schulze U Force 75 with a Hacker C 40 6S
1x Hacker Car Competition with a Hacker C 40 6 S (or a Kontronik Twister55)
1x Hacker Car Comp. with a Feigao B 50 6s

And any of these in combination, the esc will be both around 280 Euro and motors around 100-150 Euro here in germany, i dunno the Prices in the US now, check the various sites posted here !!

These Motors are all very powerful, i used a mid power (5500 RPM / V) Twister 55 in my Dyna Storm it easily reached around 65-66 km/h (with STANDART pinion !!!) so the running time was around 6 - 8 min out of 3300´s, expect little less as you have a 4wd but running it on pavement will make times better, in general it will be around 5-8 min per 6 cell 3300´s pack.

your car might be stressed very much, take the newer yellow or green belts for your losi, better will be a shaft driven car, but it will hold for a while !!

the need of any receiver pack will not be a must have with these esc´s, as their bec is all very good and safe !!

the motors will get hot too, the twister and the Hacker C 40 series comes with a built in heatsink, the others should have a clipped on one !!

as for esc size the schulze might be better fit the losi, but you might have to buy the PC cable to use it totally, the hacker will be programmed via a small external box, so the Laptop can stay at home, it depends on your likings, every esc and motor will be very ok !!

[SpEEdyBL]

Why can't any of those motors use the warrior 9918 controller. Does it have too high timing or what? Unable to adjust?

[starluckrc]

It is large and doesn't behave as well on only 6 cells (rx pack recommended). I'll do some more TC3 testing this weekend to confirm.

[D.J.]

Thanks Mr. Constructor.

So Im thinking a U force 75 and a Hacker C40 6s then. Where is the best place to buy such a setup for the best price? Also just to make it perfectely clear for me this setup will for sure bring me up to the 50mph mark with a 6 cell 3000 NiMh pack ?

[OptimaMan]

A C406s on 6 cells will get to 50 mph - but you have to gear it about 6 to 7:1. That's pretty tall gearing for a high rpm type motor. On a TC3, that's a 72 spur and a pinion in the 26+ range. So, it's not ideal for an indoor track or for racing. Too much amp draw. Great for speed runs and street racing against other guys though.

[D.J.]

A C406s on 6 cells will get to 50 mph - but you have to gear it about 6 to 7:1. That's pretty tall gearing for a high rpm type motor. On a TC3, that's a 72 spur and a pinion in the 26+ range. So, it's not ideal for an indoor track or for racing. Too much amp draw. Great for speed runs and street racing against other guys though.

Hey do you think there will be heat issues ? What will i have to do to the car IE will i be chewing up belts or melting my diffs? Thanks for your reply. D.J.

[kufman]

just pay attention to the sound of your belts and diffs. If the belt skips, tighten it a little bit. If the diffs slip, tighten them a little bit. I run the shadow, basic 4200 and aveox RC7 in my TC3 without trouble from the diffs.

[TheSteve]

The xxx-s can handle the power of a brushless motor no problem at all, and with no signs of torque steer.
Here is a thead of mine from a while back:
http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?t=170660

I've run the B50-6s, C40-6s, C40-7s(all on 6 cells) and a C40-12s on 14.8volt (4S) LiPo's.
There is no question the C40-12S is the most powerful with the LiPo cells, but between the other motors and with 6 GP3300's the C40-6S wins for speed. 40MPH isn't too tough, any faster then that though and I find it lacking in torque.

[OptimaMan]

I agree, the C406s will probably be faster than a Feigao 6s. It was definitely faster than my b50s which is almost identical to a feigao 6s. I can't say for the shadow cuz I've never owned one. It's also considerably faster than a Basic 5300 too. A 1920 5 turn will easily beat the C406s, but you have to get ultra large pinions (30+ teeth) because it does spin a little slower - but has gobs of torque and speed control burning amperage sucking ability.

[DaFF]

Hey Opti,

I know I kept on asking but where do you see the 19 serie is slower ? where do you see the 19 serie max rpm is 50 000 ???

As said before, BK said up to 65 000.

I went again on the Lehner website, and poked a few links and buttons randomly ( I don't speak German ! ) and I found a .pdf saying this:

"Die Drezhalen der motoren sind proportionnal der angelegten der Gleichspannung am controller. Die mechanische grenzdrehzahl ist bei dem
serie 15 u 19 ca 85 000 U/min, bei der serie 22 bis 50 000 U/min"

So, even though I don't understand German and "babel fish translation" is somewhat obscure, I do understand the 19 serie motor can go up to 85 000.

Let me know what you think...

PS: link to the PDF file I am refering to:

http://home.t-online.de/home/lehner-motoren/d08index.htm

And then click on the left side button saying "Beschreibungen"

Then download the following pdf file:
"Betriebsanleitung für kollektorlose Motoren 10/15/17/19/22er als Acrobat-Datei"

Watch the middle left column, on page 1.

DFF

[OptimaMan]

DFF, actually, BK website says 100,000 rpm for the 10-19 series - but I wouldn't push a 19 series to 100,000 rpm.

I was just referrring to the motor's kV being lower than the c406s. D.J. only wants to use 6 cell packs for now.

[DaFF]

OK, I understand, but they have the 1920 4 turn @ 7838 rpm / volt !

C40-6S is given for 6942 rpm/volt...

( although I wonder what esc you would need to run a beast like that on 6 cells)



DFF

[studysession]

I have the Hacker C40-6S and it is really nice motor. I am running on 6 cells but not gotten into an area really big enough to get up to any speed. Just know that it is super quick.

PS: I am running it in a TC3.

[OptimaMan]

OOh... a 1920 4 turn!!! Geez, you'll need a 200 amp controller and batteries to give that! My piddly little 1515 5 turn draws over 100 amps!!!

ss: yeah, the C40 s are "quicker" than the Basic series due to the lighter rotating mass. I've compared them directly with similar kV.

[Mr. Constructor]

you´re right, the german sheet said that the max. rpm of the 19 series will be around (the "ca.") 85.000 to be around 80.000 would be ok, so you´ll have a slightly feathered place to be safe !

the c 40 6s is a good thing when it comes to speed power and amp draw it is a good mixture !!

[studysession]

Anyone think their would be a big difference going to the C40-5S?

I have one but not used I yet because still getting used to the 6S. Not sure if I am going to keep the 5S or not. The 6S seems to be pleanty enough power for me.

[TheSteve]

Have you got an official Kv rating from Hacker on the 5 turn? I assume its somewhere in the 8000 range. I was able to feel the difference between the 7s and the 6s, so I figure you'll notice it, but be prepared to gear 12:1 or something if you still want killer punch.

[studysession]

Not sure how official it is - but when I emailed Hacker USA they said the German website was wrong on the kv for the 5t. They german website shows the 5t having same kv rating as the 6t. The Hacker USA people emailed me back saying that the 5t was around the 7400kv range.

I going to run the 6t in my TC3. Just to bash around. Will try it with the MTroniks, the Chili Pepper and BK Warrior controllers. Want to see which performs better.

.

[Mr. Constructor]

on 6 cell, do not try the warrior, it´ll cogg like mad due to heavy voltage downs that influence the bec and that might result in a extra receiver pack or (better) in a bec unit.

the others are not known here in germany, mtroniks is starting their sales now, we´ll here it soon what the final street price is and the chilli will make not really the way to us here as the distance is too great (some several ones ok, but i think not the really big thing as the shown 10th esc from them is a mtroniks 30 A esc !!

hopefully you did not spend that much money in the warrior or other lmt/bk esc´s ??

[studysession]

Right now I am running 10 cells in my TC3.

I mainly bought the Warrior for my 1/8 scale conversion.