brushless crawler- suggestions wanted

[johnrobholmes]

im gonna make my emaxx a crawler, and i just cant decide which route to go yet. some background first

i need forward and reverse to be identical with no delays.
the motor doesnt need to have much power (low low gearing)
the final speed is going to be 4 mph.
with a 4200 Kv motor on 6 cells the final drive ratio will be 150:1 (pretty darn low) to hit 4 mph with 6 inch diameter tires.
and i really, really want to use a brushless.


now, my options are as follows--
get a novak brushless (cheap and cheerful)
buy a uforce and use it with my basic 4200, basic xl 5000, or 9L feigao. (340 bucks with comp interface)
buy a bk controller and use it with one of the above motors ^^^ (200 bucks)
use my 18.97kwf with one of the above motors ^^^ (free-but it has crappy reverse, almost not an option)
buy a uforce and a pletty. the least cogging, the most torque, and a heap of cash. (add that one up, more than 5 bills)
or bite the bullit and just use my handwound 65 turn 540 brushed on 8 cells. boring. and free.

i just cant decide, and i dont want to just blow a bunch of cash- but i will spend it if i can use it. i dont race any more, and all i do is crawl now. i already have a three extra brushless and two esc's that arent being used. i just dont want to buy another brushless setup and let it sit too, ya know

[kufman]

The aveox sensored controller, the L160, has no delay to go into reverse. You might be able to get them to make you a special RC7motor that has more than 1.5 turns. Say .... 3 turns. Then you would be down around 1900 rpm/v and no cogging with the sensors.... but no brakes either. that controller either has forward and brakes or forward and reverse. Even is you get an RC7 and the L160 controller, you still have a motor rpm of 3973 rpm/v. go and check out their site and give them a call. The old part number for the slower motor was something like 1406/3Y. If you do get something from them, make sure you specify 1/8" shaft diameter, their standard is 5mm I believe.

www.aveox.com

[PCC]

I have an E-Maxx that I use to crawl with. It has front and rear spools, CVDs front and rear, shorter original arms (as opposed to the longer 2.5 arms), is locked permanently into first gear (second gear is removed), and dogbones from the tranny to the diffs. The spur gear is the 72T from the T-Maxx and the pinion is the smallest Robinson Racing one made in 1M. The motor plate had to be modified slightly to get the motor to bolt up and still be able to adjust the gear mesh. The motor/ESC I'm running in this is the Novak SS 5800 with my 6-cell race side-by-sides. It has the torque to pull it up anything I have tried to drive over and it has enough revs to be able to do about 20MPH.

The only thing about this setup is that it goes into reverse almost violently. I had to adjust the radio's EPA to about half and then I had to turn on my radio's throttle profile so that it would not do reverse wheelies when I try to go backwards.

[johnrobholmes]

im definatly going to need brakes. coasting down a slope doesnt work so well if the truck tries to reverse instead.

since the truck will be geared so low i wont need to worry about wheelies, only breaking driveline parts. this has turned into a real headache trying to figure it out. too many options

thanks for the replies guys, i appreciate the help

[EGRESSor]

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/lookup/2002426131134?opendocument
runs with http://www.maxcim.com/index.html motor and controller
and should also be good for a crawler :D

[glassdoctor]

These controllers have good software for cars? Cool to see some totally new (to me) brushless stuff...

[PCC]

The brakes are fine, it's just going into reverse that is weird. You have to double-pump to get to reverse on the Novak.

[studysession]

Hi - Few questions:
I just ordered an EMaxx - I was under impresion that they do not make good crawlers?

Other thing was I thought the 5800SS Novak was not good for truck / off-road use?

I am also curious on why you need instant reverse? I thought the delay was a safety thing so motor has time to stop before reversing.

Thanks!

[EGRESSor]

These controllers have good software for cars? Cool to see some totally new (to me) brushless stuff...
Controller Features:
Jumper selectable battery eliminator circuit (BEC) provides voltage to the RC radio system (up to a maximum 20 volt input - 14 cells peaked) (21 cell unit only). (Also see our note on fusing.)
Jumper selectable motor rotation direction, to accommodate direct drive or geared applications.
"Auto-Phase Advance" - No motor adjustment required.
Missing pulse detector, shuts down the motor if the radio signal is lost.
Automatic setup with built in microprocessor (no pots to adjust).
Proportional Brake with use of low end throttle trim.
Standard Powerpole® battery and motor connectors, and Futaba receiver connector.
LED for Setup assistance and troubleshooting.
Optional remote LED for fuselage mounting.
Cool running Very-High-Rate 10 kHz. PWM -- runs cool at part throttle.
i think it sounds not bad ;)
the Novak and Aveox motors are timed for forward only , the "Auto-Phase Advance adjusts the timing for forward or reverse
there is a prop brake , and an electric reverse shwitch is available to use with a third channel
sensorless systems have less low speed torque and starting not really smooth
2 small vids
http://www.******.net/media/DBschulzetwist.wmv
http://www.******.net/media/DBnovakss580000000.wmv

[SpEEdyBL]

Other thing was I thought the 5800SS Novak was not good for truck / off-road use?



Actually, that's what I think it does best. Onroad is where it lacks power.

[joostin421]

why would you want a brushless motor for crawling? it is kind of a waste of a BL setup. also, forget the Maxx crawler and get a clod buster.

http://home.comcast.net/~joostin420/wsb/media/355614/site1141.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~joostin420/wsb/media/355614/site1102.JPG

justin

[studysession]

How many people use the 5800 SS in their maxx's then?? How many cells do you run on it and what are the run times??

Thanks!

[SS Pede]

The SS5800 can only run up to 7 cells according to Novak. It's not really high-powered enough for a Maxx. But it works great in my Stampede, plenty of power on 6 cell GP3300's. Runtime is from 15 to 20+ minutes, depending on speed and conditions.

[studysession]

I did not think it is powerful enough for a Maxx but from this post made it sound like that is where people use it.

[mac0326]

I would guess the novak ss system would be fine in an e-maxx for crawling. If you want to race on a track, it would be severly outmatched by most other trucks on the track.

[studysession]

Yeah - like good for going slow and just bashing around????

[johnrobholmes]

remember my final drive will be 150:1 with a motor spinning 30k rpm. thats 4mph top speed. even a speed 400 motor feigao would have enough power, but it would overheat badly.

joostin, i already have a custom clod, and a custom tlt, and homebuilt vmg with miniT tranny. have you never heard of maxx crawlers? the arms get locked out and the bulks get 4 linked. more diff clearance and better turning radius. and how come your clod is so clean?? :)

with normal maxx gearing the SS would not have enough power. it is an rpm based brushless and would overheat VERY quickly. for usable speed and runtime a 12 to 14 cell brushless is much better for a maxx. like a 540 9L.

i want instant reverse so that if the truck is flipping back, i can hit reverse and save it from tumbling down the rocks. not a good thing on 45 degree inclines with large rocks. falling = many broken parts

so far the best setup looks to be a 4 pole with the uforce 75, but i dont have 600 bucks right now.

[tuil21]

what about the new novak HV?

[mac0326]

"what about the new novak HV?"

Hard to say. It's not out yet.

"Yeah - like good for going slow and just bashing around????"

Exactly!

[PCC]

Hi - Few questions:
I just ordered an EMaxx - I was under impresion that they do not make good crawlers?

Other thing was I thought the 5800SS Novak was not good for truck / off-road use?


Thanks!
I did it because I wanted to be different. Mines has fully independent suspension, not a locked suspension 4-link setup.

Yes, I have a TLT-1 and a Clod (though it's in the process of being made) for my solid-axle fix.

The Novak SS 5800 works great in this application because it has superior torque and it can rev, too, giving it the ability to power over obstacles. Sometimes you just need a lot of revs and a lot of wheelspin to get the truck over an obstacle.

[Chase023]

I dunno why people use the SS5800 for the E-Maxx but I guess if it is available, people will try anything even if it is not meant for it..

Maxx Crawlers? Yes I seen em and such.. Locked Arms and not locked as well.

Generally Maxxes do not make good crawlers, but they can be made to.
But the fact is to make it a viable crawler, you have to lock the arms and put 4 links on it which mimics the straight axles. Maybe you can crawl with Independent suspension but more likely straight axles do the job better.
But with everything, you just mod it to fit your needs and wants, but generally if I wanted a crawler I would stick with the clod/Jugg/TXT-1 (Straight axle MT for a starting base) but then different flavor for different people...

In my opinion, I would probably buy a HV4400s for a crawler if I wanted to replace my Mag Mayhems or silver cans with a Brushless and gear it low enough but not too low so it goes only a few mph. Slow is good but too slow isn't that good because you do need a little speed sometimes to go over some obstacles.

Actually I have a TLT-1 too but it sports a LRP Big Block Special.
I need to do a clod project for another crawler.

Anyhow please post some pics when u are done, sounds like a cool project.

[johnrobholmes]

im definatly going to post some pics, but it might be brushed first since i already have that setup. i have to test the kV of my 65T so that i can match the voltage up to an rpm.

[studysession]

Outrunners from planes. I use them in my cars. They have like 2 or more horse power but are only 300 - 600 kv so they are very slow. You can gear 1:1 and it will go about as fast as a stock electric on cheap batteries. But will have power out the butt for pulling or climbing anything.

[Reinhard]

hey: he is geard 1:150 !!!
for that the little novak will have for sure enough power !

he wants 4mph... for that the 200Watt of the novak are for sure enough !

(little cars were two kids are sitting inside, weighting then 80kg go around with less than 200Watt power with 4mph.. so...)

(the little tractor of my grandfather (one cylinder "Steyr 18") with 18ps can pull a lot more than my 75PS vw-golf...
GEARING !)

so no need for a 1000Watt BL-motor to go with 4mph...
go for the novak !

[maxxamillion]

RcMonster actually recommended the SS5800 to me for brushless crawling for the reason PCC said I suspect. I think I'll try that route and gear as low as possible.
I sure won't argue straight axles for EXTREME rock crawling, but for all around trail & rough terrain the E-maxx articulates good and is well balanced for traction especially with at least a rear spool.