Project 1/8 BL-Kanai 2 buggy

[Rotary Rocket]

I am finally starting my attempt at converting a 1/8th buggy into BL. I decided to go with a Kanai becasue you can change the center diff's spur to a plastic one from a Landmaxx and side step a major problem with this sort of conversion, wearing of the motor pinion.

I traded some of my TP LiPo packs for a roller chassis in good shape. It is a Kanai 2, so I am starting out with a good handling buggy.

There are major issues to over come. Biggest one is space, but here are my plans:

1. Batteries- 4S4P TP 8000 LiPo (in a 2X 2S4P format)
2. Motor- Hacker C50, Fiego 8L, or Plette Maxximum
3. Controller- Hacker Comp, with UBEC and fan
4. Chassis- Try to use the stock one
5. Center diff- Stock, but replace spur with Landmax plastic spur
6. Center drive shafts- Custom form RC alloys (and maybe a UE for the front)

My goal is to make this buggy handle well, keep the center of gravity as low as possible while being able to service the buggy with ease. Performance should meet or beat a Nitro buggy (speed, and time of run).

I will post my progress on this forum. Any and all advise is welcomed, and greatly appreciated.

[rcboy201]

sounds cool.....keep us updated

[glassdoctor]

Your plan sounds a lot like mine, he he. I hope to get my Big K buggy at the LHS later today. I'm getting impatient... :)

[Greg15]

Awesome, can't wait to see my old buggy as brushless. Anyone want a Nova P5 with pipe, I still have that since Larry has the chassis.

[Rotary Rocket]

First I stripped the chassis down just to see what area I have to work with.

It was not possible to get the heaviest pieces to be flat on the chassis, just not enough room. So I had to go for the next best thing, which will leave the batteries flat on the chassis and close to the center line of the buggy, but the motor will have to be in a vertical position over the center diff.

[Rotary Rocket]

I used a 6 mm thick sheet of carbon fiber (15 layer construction), and made a vertical motor mount, and bolted it to the center diff...

[Rotary Rocket]

Here is the opposite view, with a C50 mounted. Note I will be flipping the center diff upside down, and moving it forward.

Moving it forward will allow the batteries to be close to the center line of the chassis.

Flipping the center diff upside down will allow me to NOT cut out the chassis, and expose the eventual plastic spur to the elements.

[Rotary Rocket]

The center diff was moved forward by 40MM, and with the veritcal motor mount the motor sits 35MM off of the chassis.

The holes to hold the center diff have been chamfered, so the bottom of the chassis is totally smooth...

[glassdoctor]

Nice RR!

What do you have in mind for the center shafts? Are you making room for twin 6 cell nickel packs to sit under the motor?

BTW, I just got my buggy... sitting here looking at a bunch of parts. :)

I need to get the chassis together so I can play with setup too. I wish the main chassis was just a little wider on these things... but that would make it too easy.

[studysession]

RR -
Nice job mate - what are you using for a pinion?

[SCHMACH]

where did you get the carbon from? got a website?

[Rotary Rocket]

Glassdoctor, I am going to try to use an Unlimited Engineering titanium front center shaft (57.5MM), and have Bill at RC Alloys make me a 140MM rear shaft.

http://www.rcalloys.com/new/new.html

His shafts are what BPP uses for his extended chassis. I used his shafts in my 1/5 rally BL and they have been holding up fine to two 7XL on 4S4P each!

Studysession, thank you for your kind words. I just found it!!! It is a 12 tooth Mod 1 pinion, and accomodates the smaller C50 shaft. Jaime at Starluck RC is getting some 12 teeth Mod 1 pinions with a 5 MM center shaft, which I will use with the Plette, and Fiego motor later on.

Schmach, I got the carbon from Aerospace composites:
http://www.acp-composites.com./

You can also get some from Pengiun RC:
http://www.penguinrc.com/products/other/graphiteplate.shtml

Today I am going to make an upper plate to tie the center diff and the front bulk head together for strenght and to keeping the flex down.

[tcolesen]

That motor mount looks pretty nice. I would have never thought of using a material other than aluminum for it! It just looks so nice!

[Rotary Rocket]

I made the top plate out of 2.5MM sheet of carbon fiber.

It ties the side plates of the center diff and the front bulkhead together.

[Rotary Rocket]

With the top plate in place it is now time to install the batteries.

I used the associated chassis protector (#6312) to line the chassis (and cover up all the holes), then placed industrial strenght velcro (form Home Depot) on the chassis.

Gorilla Maxx battery straps will hold the batteries in place.

[Rotary Rocket]

Next it was time to install the side protectors.

I cut out the center screw holder because it would interfere with the battery.

Then I drilled the chassis and side protecter just in front of the battery, so the side protectors are still attached at three points.

I am using LiPos so I need to be carefull that the batteries are well protected.

This set up has the batteries laying flat on the chassis, while no part of the pack is extending beyond the chassis or placed on the flexible side protectors.

Also the Velcro below the batteries acts as a cushion.

[Fantom 15 gt]

WOW nice work!

[Rotary Rocket]

Thanks Fantom.

Even though my digital camera takes horrible pictures you can see how close to the center line the batteries are placed.

Next I will need to get some parts from th LHS so I can mount the steering servo. It will be a vertical placement.

[studysession]

That looks very nice - love the battery straps. Wish I had the funds for those for my H7. Great job!!! :)

[SCHMACH]

here's a thought...what about making the upper plate longer...to take the place of the piece covering the steering too...give it a cleaner look

[tcolesen]

That is very nice! With those Gorilla Maxx battery straps your buggy is just :eek:

[studysession]

Did those black plates come with the Gorilla strap? Looks like there is a black flat plate under them???

Where did you get them???

Thanks!!!

[Greg15]

Quick job too!! Can't wait to see this thing go.

[Rotary Rocket]

Studysession, the Gorilla Maxx battery straps are only $9.

http://gorillamaxx.com/

The black "plate" underneath it is just velcro. It has adhesive so it is just stuck on the chassis. I also have velcro on the bottom of my batteries, this ensure the batteries stay put even in a violant crash (and will cushion the LiPo when landing from jumps).

SCHMACH, the upper plate's level is just above the front brace. I was going to originally eliminate the front brace and use one piece to tie everything together, but I could not lower the center diff enough without having to cut the chassis out for the spur.

[studysession]

I am impressed with how quick you got it together. You da-man!!

[Rotary Rocket]

Lol, nahhhh I'm not the man. Mr. Contructor is the MAN.

Also with your mill your will soon be the man too Studysession... ;)

[studysession]

Thanks for the kind words -
I love these electric buggies. Can't wait till my motor comes in so I can run mine. I ordered a 10L motor from Starluck.

And YES Mr. Constructor is the MAN!!!! :)

[glassdoctor]

Very nice!!

It's funny to see a buggy that looks so much like mine. I got mine put together today.. enough to play mock-up with it. I'm trying to decide exactly what to do, what batteries to use, etc.

I like how you have all the components on the main chassis plate... that's what my project is also. I don't want anything on the plastic side guards except maybe my personal transponder. :)

Did you mod the steering rack/servo saver? Mine has the servo horn on the outside of the car... yours is to the inside. Maybe I built mine backwards... :(

I'm planning to make a carbon top plate to span front bulks to the rear bulks... repalce the front stock top plate like you said. But I won't get to that until I have the motor mounts tested and the buggy put through some trial runs. I only want to cut graphite once... and hopefully get it right.

[Rotary Rocket]

glassD, post a pic of your buggy...

If your buggy is a Kanai, then yes the servo saver needs to go towards the middle. It will interfere with the body if it is on the outside.

Studysession, what batteries are you going to use with that 10L? You should start a thread about your mill (do it here in the brushless section).

As far as I know Coldfusion, BPP, and Mr. Constructor all have CNC machines. That is what I would like to learn next. How to work with a mill, and learn how to program and work with a CNC. Dremel can only take you so far... ;)

[studysession]

I will be using 12 Matched GP3300's - I get my batteries from one of my sponsors. They sent me these just for the buggy to use. I will also be using some other motors. Just really wanted to try one of these Fiegao's that everyone has been talking about. I will also have a couple of other motors to test in the buggy coming soon.

As for the machining - I make stuff, but a lot of what I make I not worth talking about here. Some of what I make is not RC related.

Want a laugh: You know those New Bright Hummers at Toy-R-Us? A friend of mine got his kid one for Christmas. His kid broke it, so I am not making custom front a-arms for this thing. I think that is funny, it is not worth the effort but the kid was very upset because he got the from "Santa". So told him I would fix it.

As for the 1/8 scale buggies - I would love to get people to draw parts in a CAD program for me. Email me the drawings - (SOMETIMES supply the aluminum they want the part made from - and I would cut and mail it to them for free). I just want the measurements for the different kits. That would give me ideas for other things and would give others something unique that they designed to run at the track.

Just an idea. --- The motor mount the I CNC'ed today (Not finished because had to take care of kids / will finish tomorrow) Once I test it and see it works - I will take the buggy to the track. If all goes well, I will make a few with my website address engraved on them and offer them to people at the track if they want to convert their Hyper 7's to electric.

I have also come up with a design that will allow me to use stock H7 clutch bells on electric motors with 5mm shafts. Have not made it yet. But came up with a basic idea of what I will make and how I will attach it today. :)

[glassdoctor]

I got a couple pics of my buggy. It's actually a 777, but looks almost identical to your Kanaii. There's one showing how 9-10 3300s would fit, and one showing a mock-up of the lipos I'm expecting to get, actual size.. but a cool cardboard version. :)

The center diff would be moved over about 1/4" to make clearance for the batteries. I'm trying to make the car work well with either lipos or nimhs. More nimhs could be stacked if needed, but I will try it on 9 or 10 (and a 3s lipo), and hope it's good with a 3000kv motor. This is off topic, but I wonder how the 4400kv NovakHV would do on a 9 cell GP3300 setup.

Check out in the "side shot" pic how low CG the setup would be. The only thing higher that's not shown would be the ESC and battery brace/straps.

Well... some pics... can only post 1 pic per post?

[glassdoctor]

"nickel" setup.... 9 cell mock up. Never mind the 3 cells hiding by the rear wheel, it's the other half of the xx4's saddle pack. :)

[glassdoctor]

Check out the super low cg...

[glassdoctor]

One more with a better view of the layout. Things are "loose" right now... nothing mounted yet.

[Rotary Rocket]

Looking good, got to love that low CG set up...

I think you are on to something good with a 3S set up, and the right motor. This would allow all the heavy components to be directly on the chassis.

So if you do go with a 3S, or 9cell nickle packs what motor are you going to be using?

Also what is your gearing?

[glassdoctor]

I'm going to try the 8L first... 2950kv, with a 3s and 9 cell.

The Novak has me curious though. I know this goes against the "high volt/ low kv" movement, but a 10-12 volt setup allows the option of using nickels without a big weight penalty.

Gearing I have right now is a 13 pinion with the stock 46 spur. I'm going to get a 44 plastic spur to try, and like a 15-17 pinion for some options. With a 15/46 an 3s pack, the theoretical speed of just over 40mph. I would expect actual speeds in the low 30's.

I think it will actually be a good setup for my rather small local track. A 4s lipo would help satisfy the need for speed... 15/44 and 14.8V should easily get into the 50's. (calculated speed 64mph, so a loss of like 20% would be about 50mph actual... just a guess)

btw, the gear in the picture is a 13T Mod 1 gear stolen from an Emaxx tranny shaft. :) I don't think it will work with the steel buggy gear, so I'm going to pick up a plastic center gear to try with it. I plan to get a hardened gear from Jamie to use with the steel.

also, I really like your setup too, with the placement of the batteries. It's a great setup for big lipo packs, and the weight is balanced and close to center.

[studysession]

Any new updates?

[Rotary Rocket]

Got a set of Associated RC10GT servo mounts (#7527), and drilled out the chassis and mounted the steering servo.

Due to lack of space it had to be in standing position, again I did not want anything to be on the dirt guards.

Now I have to wait for the UE front shaft and diff yokes to arrive for the next step.

[Rotary Rocket]

This morning was very frustrating day for making parts... :mad:

I spent over 4 hours trying make a pinion out of the emaxx tranny gears. I went through no less than 6 gears, 4 drill bits, and 3 taps!!!

Has anyone successfully tapped the 13 teeth gear from an emaxx tranny to make it into a pinion gear for a brushlees?

BTW, Coldfusion told me about this possibility.

[Rotary Rocket]

I counter sunk the screws on the top plate to allow the motor's pinion to mesh properly with the spur, and give me a flat surface to mount the receiver and UBEC.

[studysession]

Funny - I learned this from RC-Monster.com's Mike. So I am ordering some EMaxx tranny gears to try it out. ;)

It will be a while for them to reach me. I am placing the order this weekend when I order my TLT-1 from Tower Hobbies. It usually takes a few weeks for their orders to get to me. :(

[tcolesen]

I have tried to bore out pinion gears to 5mm in the past. The one time I was able to do it, the hole was way off-center! But that was a Kyosho 15t 32p pinion. I also have a good 5mm drill bit, and haven't broken that.
That's strange how those pinion gears broke like that!

[Rotary Rocket]

Study, where are you at that it take 2-3 weeks to get things from Tower?

I used my dremel and a dimond bit to enlarge the holes to the point of almost being 4MM. Then I used a 4MM drill bit (in a drill press) to finalize the hole to 4MM diameter. Finally I tried to tap it (while useing cutting oil), which ended up cracking the gear.

The gear is very hard, but brittle at the same time.

The process that I mentioned above was my most successfull attempt.

When I tried to drill it without enlarging the hole, the gear would crack.

I tried both 3mm, and 4mm diameter holes/taps.

Please post your results.

[studysession]

BTW: Looks great!

[studysession]

I am in the UK. Sometimes things get here quickly other times it take very long time.

I will be placing my order this weekend.

[Rotary Rocket]

Ahhh, that explains it... :)

[Rotary Rocket]

FedEx brought the UE drive shaft (front), and drive cups...

[Rotary Rocket]

First major set back of the project: The UE drive shaft is too long by about 2-3 MMs!!!

If I try to set the center diff back to allow for the additional front drive shaft lenght, then the batteries will not fit.

In the picture you can see the holes where the center diff needs to go vs. where the center diff is with the front drive shaft in place.

The UE shaft is titanium and would have been very light. The additional strenght of the RC alloys (stainless steel) drive shaft is not really needed for the front. RC alloys can customer build you a shaft at any lenght, but the UE shafts are made in 4 specific lenghts (they are for emaxx, tmaxx applications). I will use this UE shaft for my next 1/8 buggy conversion, and OFNA 9.5. I think the OFNA chassis is about 5 MM longer than the Kanai chassis.

I already emailed RC alloys to place my order for a front and rear dirve shafts.

The front is 50MM, and the rear is 135MM.

[Cold Fusion]

Try using a small phillips screw driver to tap out the pin. I've had a few friends that used this method with success. I personally haven't been able to tap them out, only drill.

I was the one that mentioned this to Mike as well...

[glassdoctor]

RR, I have a 13T "emaxx pinion" in the pic above that I tapped ok. I used a 4-40 tap and screw. It's a smaller set screw than I would like, but I guess it's good that I didn't break it. I did mine a while ago... I thought the gear was pretty soft metal. Maybe the gear shaft I had was not a stock Traxxas piece?

Anyway, you probably should try a slightly larger drill bit before you tap it. The threads should still be good and it should tap a lot easier. Not that I've done much of this before....

[Rotary Rocket]

tcolesen, I was trying to tap the gear from the side for the set screw. The nice thing about this gear is that the shaft diameter is 5MM, and it is Mod 1 pitch.

Coldfusion, I got the pins out with no problem. I have a small punch and used a hammer. The gears broke while trying to tap (create threads) for the set screw. As I mentioned I tried for 3MM, and then 4MM set screws with no success.

Glassdoctor, I think I will try the 440 tap on my next try. Thanks for the tip.

[glassdoctor]

Oh... btw, I think the standard for pinions is actually 5-40 now, but I didn't have a 5-40 tap. I don't know that it would make a difference.

Something else that may be worth trying, even on the broken gears, is drilling a new set screw hole that's farther from the edge of the gear. (closer to the teeth)

[tcolesen]

Maybe I should get one of those E-Maxx gears! I have all of the tools to tap. I could post my results. I'll see if I can find that gear and tap it to 3mm, and then maybe try 4mm.

[Rotary Rocket]

Ordered my drive shafts from RC Alloys, by will not get them until the first week of next year.

I set out to modify the stock bones to fit my needs.

I cut the bones in half, and added an aluminum collar in the middle. For the rear I extended it by 40MM (total of 135MM), and for the front I cut out some of the shaft so I ended up with 50MM total lenght.

[Rotary Rocket]

Dremeled flat spots on the each end of the drive shaft, drilled and tapped the aluminm tube for a set screw, then assymbled the drive shaft back together.

[Rotary Rocket]

The new modified shafts attached to the buggy just as before...

[tcolesen]

Was the aluminum collar already hollow when you got it, or did you drill through it? I have never thought of making driveshafts like that! In the past I tried using threaded collars, and then I put threads onto the driveshaft part, but they unscrewed even with the heavy usage of JB Weld.

[Rotary Rocket]

The tube that I used was solid and I drilled it out. It was the only thing I had laying around. It would have been a lot easier with a hollow tube.

Try to put a nut on the drive shaft first, then your threaded tube. Once you have the size adjusted correctly then tighten down the nut against the threaded tube and use locktite on the threads. You can also try to use reverse threaded tube.

[tcolesen]

I did actually use a nut before the tube. I didn't buy the threaded tube. I drilled out 1/4" rod and tapped it to 4-40. I used a die to put a 4-40 thread on the dogbones. I originally tried loctite, but I found that coating the thing in JB Weld worked better, but still wasn't good enough. Those things gave me nothing but trouble. They would unscrew, bend, snap, fall out, etc. I didn't happen to have a reverse threaded tap/die set so the unscrewing while driving was inevitable.

Now back to your buggy. Are you gonna drive it with those driveshafts?

[Rotary Rocket]

tcolesen, with as much time as I spent making them I will be sure to drive on them. :D

Today was a good progress day. First I installed the Hacker Master Comp controller. I have a UBEC attached to it, and also installed a fan on top of it.

The fan is spaced from the top crbon plate such that it "holds" the controller in place. The lock nuts that hold the fan (bottom of fan) also act as a side guard so the controller will not slide in towards the center diff. The controller is attached via velcro (again so the car can be serviced easilly).

[Rotary Rocket]

The rectangular white piece on the top plate is the 6V UBEC.

http://www.koolflightsystems.com/ultimatebec.htm

Note there is plenty of room between the controller and the battery...

[studysession]

Stupid question:
Does it really get that hot where you really need these fans? And an extra fan for the UBEC?

LOOKS GREAT!!!

[Rotary Rocket]

Every component is directly accesable for ease of repair.

There is plenty of room between the steering servo and the battery...

[studysession]

What servo are you running?

[Rotary Rocket]

Study, yes it gets really hot out here in "sunny California". I actually have fans on most of my motors in other cars. All of them have fans for the controllers. The UBEC does not get that hot, I have only seen temps of 110 F at the most, so no need for a fan for it.

I was able to accomplish my goal of not placing any components on the stone guards...

[Rotary Rocket]

I am running an Airtronics 94158 for the steering (it is an older servo).

I place the clear body to show how all electronics clear the body with room to spare...

[studysession]

Looks great - I do have my batteries on the stone guards on mine. Hopefully will be able to put pics of mine up soon.

[studysession]

See the rear of the body is very tight and narrow unlike the Hyper 7. On the Hyper 7 since I did the brushless conversion - the tires baloon a lot more. When they baloon they rub the body and make loud noises which makes me think it is coming apart so I stop. All it is the tire rubbing, nothing major. I am trying to figure out how to improve on that. ;)

[Rotary Rocket]

Thank you for the kind words Study, you are always encouraging. I appreciate it. :)

I took a side shot to show its relative low center of gravity. Even in the vertical position the motor is not that far off of the chassis (35mm).

I weighed the car (bathroom digital scale), and it weighed in at a flat 8 lbs. I also weight my OFNA 9.5 with the same scale for comparison and it came in at 8.8lbs (with no fuel in the car). :D Another goal accomplished.

[studysession]

Messed up - will try and repost pics later. :(

[Rotary Rocket]

See the rear of the body is very tight and narrow unlike the Hyper 7. On the Hyper 7 since I did the brushless conversion - the tires baloon a lot more. When they baloon they rub the body and make loud noises which makes me think it is coming apart so I stop. All it is the tire rubbing, nothing major. I am trying to figure out how to improve on that. ;)
Study, you must be putting down some serious power for the tires to ballon that much while running. :eek:

BTW, I am using an OFNA 9.5 body on this Kyosho (just had one lying around), so I wonder if you can also use a 9.5 body and gain some clearance in the rear?

[studysession]

WOW! Looks great from the side. Love that.

Now I assume you will paint the body yourself? Can't wait to see it finished. Will you do videos?

I am going to the stray in Harrogate tomorrow to take video if it is not raining. One of my neighbors teenage daughters is going with me to work the camera. She is taking a video class and hopefully she will get some extra credit for helping me.

[glassdoctor]

I weighed the car (bathroom digital scale), and it weighed in at a flat 8 lbs. I also weight my OFNA 9.5 with the same scale for comparison and it came in at 8.8lbs (with no fuel in the car). :D Another goal accomplished.

8lbs... awesome! That's another thing I'm looking for... keep it same weight as a good nitro. To be fair though, we know an Ofna is heavier than a K car. :)

I weighed the "nitro" components out of my old TT car... and I've been using that to compare all the electric components. Lipos allow the electric to be equal or even lighter. :D

BTW, I hope to get some time working on my car this weekend. I'll post pics if I make some progress.

[studysession]

Question for you:
For the ESC, do you really think that velcro is good enough to hold it tightly? On my speed cars I use velcro and when I wreck the ESC sometimes goes flying off the car. So on my buggy I am using wire ties. Would prefer velcro just because it is easier for taking on and off the car.

Thanks!!

[Rotary Rocket]

I use industrial strenght velcro, and so yes it does hold on with no problems.

The biggest problem is try to remove the controller! This stuff hangs on VERY tight.

Let me know if you can't get your hand on some in UK, I can always mail you some.

[studysession]

Sounds cool - I am using velcro for the RX but will still wire tie the ESC down.

[kufman]

Rotary,

Sweet ride you have there. That thing should fly and handle great.

[studysession]

I would expect since he is using a nice Hacker motor - His would have more power than my Hyper 7 with the elcheapo Feigao motor. His should be insane. :) :D :eek:

[Rotary Rocket]

Thanks Kufman, I can't wait for it to stop raining so I can test drive it.

Study, the fiegao motors are just as fast as anything else out there on the top end. They are just not as efficient, so you loose some run time. I will run a fiegao 8L at some point just to see how it will compare to the Hacker, but I have to wait until Jaime can get some 12 tooth Mod 1 pinions.

BTW, what pinion/spur are you running in your Hyper?

[studysession]

I am using the stock diff and a 16t Mod-1 pinion. I have some of the Emaxx gears (ordered yesterday) coming. But it will take few weeks to get here. I ordered a TLT-1 with that same order. Big boxes take longer for some reason. ;)

I love how fast this thing is. Later I will get some L and XL series Chili-Pepper motors to try. But right now running the Fiego. I was having a blast with it until it broke. :( I hate it when that happens.

Hope my EMaxx comes this week so I can have another off road to mess with until my H7 parts arrive. ;)

[joemama]

This is a really cool idea Rotary Rocket..I was actually thinking of converting my HPI Nitro Mt into a brushless beast but I really have no time...Instead I have a brushless E-maxx that goes about 45mph w/ a Nemesis/Fiegao 10L and 9918 Warrior on 14 Matched GP 3300's. I am thinking of droping this setup into a Losi or Associated Pan car that I picked up.. I ran it on 14 cells w/ a 19 epic motor and it had to have hit like 60..but now with the 10L and some crazy gearing I might make it over 100mph.

[Rotary Rocket]

Well it continues to rain so I still have not tested this buggy yet...

I did get to paint the body. :p

[studysession]

NICE!!!:)

Can't wait till I can post my pics. Waiting for someone to review them first.

[rstnboy]

Rotary - that's a nice looking buggy. I like the paint scheme...simple yet distinctive. You are going to be amazed once you get to drive it. After I finished mine, I had to wait two days because of rain but it was definately worth the wait. Do you have a way to measure speed such as a GPS? I am interested in how fast the different buggies go with essentially the same motors/controllers.

As an experiment in pushing limits, I just tried mine with a Feigao 8L and 16 GP3300 cells. It topped out at 45.4 mph. The 10L with the same setup went the same speed. I know I was pushing the 8L past its theoretical 50,000 rpm limit but I just had to try. The calculations said it should have gone 54 mph based on motor rpm and geaing. I think the drivetrain just may have reached the point where it just won't turn any faster.

[glassdoctor]

That seems odd... exactly the same speed? Do you think it might be overgeared at this point, for an 8L?

Hmmm... on paper, an 8L on 16 cells should go faster than that. I was hoping to get my 8L in the 40s on 12 cells.

45 mph with typical gearing equals about 30-32K rpm at the motor.

32,000rpm/ 10:1 gear reduction= @3200rpm at wheels.

3200rpm x 4.5" tires= 45mph

[rstnboy]

On mine I found it took 11 turns of the pinion to make one full tire rotation. Either way, the theory points to a faster top speed than what I am getting. The drivetrain seems to turn freely enough so I don't think there is any binding. The table I use to work on my toys has a very slight slant to it and I have to chock the wheels to keep it from rolling so that further leads me to no binding in the drivetrain. I do have some righteous torque though. If I punch it while turning, the tires balloon to the point of hitting the chassis.

[glassdoctor]

I haven't done enough testing with these setups to really know what to expect. I had been guessing we could get about 80% of calculated "on paper" speeds with this type of setup.

If you have a lot of torque and strong acceleration, it doesn't sound overgeared to the point of scrubbing top end.

The math says freewheel speeds of 70+mph for the 8L on 16... and 11:1 gear. 50mph would be about 70% of calculated speed. Maybe that's about right... about 65-70% of calculated speeds. 80% is probably too high to expect.

[glassdoctor]

RRocket, I don't want to clog up your thread, but I thought since I have a similar car and project, this is the best place to post my project. Seemed better than a new thread, but I can do that if you want to keep things separated.

I'll post a couple pics of current progress. First is a pic with the servo mounted, and the center diff moved over about 6mm.

So far, I have trimed about 1/8" off the left side guard to help make room for the battery to fit better. I had to drill and countersink holes in the chassis for the servo, center diff mounts, and rear brace mount.

I decided to try using a spare emaxx motor mount because it just happens that it lined up well.. so I tried it. Seems to work ok.. heavily dremeled. :)

I also removed the purple from the motor. :D

[glassdoctor]

emaxx hacked motor mount....

[glassdoctor]

pic of emaxx motor plate cutout... this was cutout so that a 36mm motor sits flat on the chassis. I will need to make a brace to beef it up...

[glassdoctor]

I have the motor plate mounted to the stock diff mount with two screws into factory holes, and a third at the bottom close to the chassis. The motor plate also serves as a guard near the gear to help make sure the battery can't touch the gear.

Now I need to make mounts to hold the controller and secure the battery... 9 cell nimh and lipos.

Then it's almost ready to test.

[Rotary Rocket]

Glassdoctor, I am glad you posted on this thread. Anyone wanting to do a Kyosho conversion will get good info looking up this thread.

Great progress on your buggy. Did you check your body clearance with the direction you have your servo saver in?

What are you going to use to attached your batteries to your chassis?

Also are you going to change the center spur to plastic/derlin? I order Kyosho MP7.5 plastic center diff spur to replace my metal one.

Your conversion will have the lowest CG of anyone's conversion so far. :D

[Rotary Rocket]

pic of emaxx motor plate cutout... this was cutout so that a 36mm motor sits flat on the chassis. I will need to make a brace to beef it up...
This will make the chassis act as a huge heat sink. Great idea. With the motor flat on the chassis you can try to place the "disc brake locaters" in the back of the motor, which should hold it in place and not allow the end bell to get loose in a hard crash.

[studysession]

I think both of them look great!

[glassdoctor]

Thanks

What is a "disk brake locator"? I was planning to tap a crew into the backplate of the motor and make a little "L" shaped bracket to bolt it to the chassis.

Yeah, the heat sink of the chassis is one reason I kept to this design... hope it helps.

I had my LHS order a stock 46 and a 44 tooth plastic gear. It's nice to have a factory plastic gear option, and they are only $6 ea. :)

Oh, I found out that the 777 has to have the servo saver to the outside because the 777 upper arms are mounted farther back, and there isn't clearance for the saver if it's on the inside. So you have to make a cutout in the body, that's all. I don't like that because it won't be sealed from dirt as well, but there's isn't a choice.

For batteries, I think I will put velcro on the chassis, as a pad under the battery... and help keep it from shifting around. Then I could use a Gorilla strap or an aluminum top brace. Not sure exactly. I might try using 2 or 3 velcro straps east-west rather than one long gorilla strap north-south, if that makes sense. I saw one buggy like that somewhere here... there were two wide velcro wraps to hold a lipo.... whose car was that?

[Rotary Rocket]

I didn't know what they are officially called, so I called them the disk brake locators. I am referring to the plastic piece that is located under the disk breaks (so they don't wobble I guess), on a stock 1/8 buggy.

Your servo saver arm does allow you to mount your steering servo flat on the chassis though, I like that...

[glassdoctor]

Oh, I gotcha... sounds like a good name. :)

I think I will go play with some velcro....

[Rotary Rocket]

She LIVES, mmmuuhhhhaaaa...

[studysession]

Looks like the tires are balooning??

[Rotary Rocket]

Yes they are, but the buggy is off the ground.

I am only geared with a 12 tooth pinion. I don't know how fast it will be, but wanted to make sure I started out conservatively.

Now if only this rain would STOP... :mad:

[studysession]

Understand - it rains all the time here. It gets frustrating. That is why I have a 1/20 scale Schumacher Mini Monster. To run an RC in the house when it is raining outside. :) I also run MTroniks brushed ESC's in my MiniT so I can run it in the rain when I want. Very cool.

[ggfx-mikey]

any videos in the near future?

[Rotary Rocket]

I am getting a new digital camera (finally), and it supposedly can take 30 seconds of video. I don't know how well my wife can shoot, or how good the video guality will be with a dig camera, but I'll try it.

My biggest problem is finding someone to host it.

For now it is still raining, HARD. Next project, brushless Noah's ark. :rolleyes:

[Cold Fusion]

I'll host for you.

[Rotary Rocket]

Thank you CF. :)

[OpIvy]

I can host as well... and will be even if andrew gets it first lol.
-Nick

[Rotary Rocket]

Thank you DualBL, I know you made this offer available to me before also.

I just did not want to bug you at this time.

BTW, feel free to post my pics on your site. Let me know if I need to send them to you directly.

You guys ROCK...

[Mike Hall]

When will the video be up? Im ready to see that thing hauling. LOL This is one clean conversion and I plan on basing my conversion on yours.

Mike

[Rotary Rocket]

Mike, even though I live in "sunny California" it has been raining for a week out here (wouldn't you know it is the week I take off for vacation), and the weather is said to be raining all next week too!!!

It did help me finish the project, but I did not get to run any of my cars/trucks, or do anything else. :(

[Mike Hall]

Man, I would have to head to a mall or something and run that thing. LOL I would at least take it to a place that had a good size open area indoors and test it a little. I just want to see what kind of acceleration that thing has.

Mike

[Rotary Rocket]

Mike, you should wait to see what Glassdoctor comes up with. His design will have the absolute lowest center of gravity.

For my next conversion (OFNA 9.5) I am going to keep the rear section the same (how the batteries mount), but try to get the motor and the steering servo to be flat on the chassis. Right now I am thinking of moving the steering servo to the opposite side, and mount the motor backwards on the right hand side. This design should give lowest CG, good side to side weight distribution while keeping the weight as close to the center line as possible.

[Mike Hall]

RR, would these packs perform as well as the TP? http://www.starluckrc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=109

I myself like TP packs but those Polyquest are so cheap and look to have a good discharge rate.

Mike

[Mike Hall]

Never mind. Those will not fit on a buggy very well. There 5" long where as the TP are only 4" long.

Mike

[OpIvy]

RR, I've been saving all your pictures, as I come accross em.. but, I don't have frontpage installed, to setup a page for you, that's the only reason it's not already on there lol. same with Glassdoctor.

only reason you'd need to send me pics, is if you have higher resolution/better quality pics.. if not, I'm pretty sure I got all of the ones that have been posted.
-Nick

[Mike Hall]

RR, Are you talking about something like this? Im drawing everything up in Autocad so i can figure out where to place what. I may also get a new chassis machined out if i cant make the stock chassis work.

Mike

[OpIvy]

Mike, I think that's what he's talking about...
so far, the only buggy I've seen use that layout is CombatCM's buggy.
http://8ths.dualbl.com/combatcm.html
-Nick

[Mike Hall]

Here is a top view. I guess the motor is not placed to far forward. There is no other way to fit the batteries like you have them and also have the motor mounted low and on the side of the car. That is a B50 drawn with TP 2s4p packs. The drive shaft yokes are placed at the correct spot to give an idea of where the drive shafts will go. As soon as I get things placed the way I want I can start designing the aluminum motor/differential mounts.


I guess i could turn the Center Differential around to move the motor in closer. Im not sure what size the pinion should be but just a ruff count i found that the spur is a 52 tooth. Does that sound about right?

Mike

[OpIvy]

spur on my H7 is 51, so i'll guess your one off lol.
-Nick

[Mike Hall]

Oh well, the spur in the drawing is the right diameter which is all that matters. LOL

Do you think the motor is placed to close to the edge?

Mike

[TeamTEOR]

Nice thread going on here guys.... I look forward toward setting up my Ultra MBX R2. I am still waiting on a part or two before I take any pictures.

[OpIvy]

Mike, I think that's fine...
but, is that an L or an XL?
-Nick

[Mike Hall]

Nick, Its a World Ultra GT. I had to build this car complete from little bags of parts and i think i remember the LX being built already. The car is just now 7 years old.

Mike

[glassdoctor]

Rocket, the ultra-low cg buggy isn't perfected yet. :) Right now I resorted to mounting the controller in the same place you have the motor. It's a hacker and it's kinda tall, so it kills the looks at least. I guess it's only 2oz. instead of 8-9oz motor.

I think when I get this done, I need to keep working on different layouts too. I don't really like having the center driveshafts angled so much... because I expect it to wear on the outdrive cups a lot.

I think I will try a Warrior 9918, and it will sit lower, or even lay sideways down on the chassis. The one good thing about where the controller sits now is good airflow if I cut the windshield in the body. That was the plan originally.

I will get a pic...

I made a brace at the rear of the motor, a cf/alum mount for the controller, and some battery mounting brackets. I still don't have the velcro straps worked out yet... that's about the last thing other than finishing wiring electronics.

I need a ubec device... and I need some lipos that will fit right.

[glassdoctor]

Close up of simple motor brace. It could be done nicer... and I'm running low on hardware. I need to get some more short cap heads. :)

I drilled and tapped a hole in the back plate. Be careful if you try that... next time I think I would take the motor apart first to be sure I got hte hole in the best spot and make sure there are no metal bits inside.

[glassdoctor]

cg is still pretty good, but there's a big ugly old esc and fan to mess up the picture now. The 9918 should look better ;)

[Mike Hall]

Glassdoctor, what motor is that your running?

Mike

[glassdoctor]

Mike, that's a good design. Put the center diff and motor as far forward as possible, so there is room for batteries to tuck in behind the diff. Like RotaryRocket's...

The motor is a Feigao 8L... it's what I had on hand. I just sanded off the color. ;)

I wanted to run a different motor, but figured I better try what I have and find out where to go from here if I don't like it.

[Mike Hall]

Ah Ha, I was thinking you had some special built motor or something. LOL How does the Feigao hold up against motors like the C50, Maxximum?

Mike

[OpIvy]

Mike, I wasn't refering to the chassis lol.
I meant what sized motor is it.. like B50 S, L, or XL.
-Nick

[Rotary Rocket]

Oh well, the spur in the drawing is the right diameter which is all that matters. LOL

Do you think the motor is placed to close to the edge?

Mike
Your latest CAD is pretty much what I had in mind. I would bring the center diff assymbly towards the front as much as possible while allowing enough room to place a Plette Maximum with built in endbell fan (70mm). The Plette Max motor has tons of torque, will allow you to run as much as 14 cells on it (more that this amount of cells, and you will have both space issues and a heavy buggy to deal with). The Plette with the endbell fan is the longer than Hacker C50, and the "L" size can motors, so you can use any motor you wish.

Finally you might need to move the center diff assymbly slightly to the left to allow additional room for the motor.

If you are designing you own chassis, why not make it wider? Keep the out line the same as the body (so dirt can't get in) and kick up the last 1/2 inch for ground clearance in turns.

[Rotary Rocket]

Rocket, the ultra-low cg buggy isn't perfected yet. :) Right now I resorted to mounting the controller in the same place you have the motor. It's a hacker and it's kinda tall, so it kills the looks at least. I guess it's only 2oz. instead of 8-9oz motor.

I think when I get this done, I need to keep working on different layouts too. I don't really like having the center driveshafts angled so much... because I expect it to wear on the outdrive cups a lot.

I think I will try a Warrior 9918, and it will sit lower, or even lay sideways down on the chassis. The one good thing about where the controller sits now is good airflow if I cut the windshield in the body. That was the plan originally.

I will get a pic...

I made a brace at the rear of the motor, a cf/alum mount for the controller, and some battery mounting brackets. I still don't have the velcro straps worked out yet... that's about the last thing other than finishing wiring electronics.

I need a ubec device... and I need some lipos that will fit right.
GlassD, you can always mount the controller on the steering servo to get the CG that much lower, or how about turning it 90 degrees and placing it between the motor and the steering servo?

Like you said it is such a light piece (and specially since it is in the middle of the buggy) that it sould not effect the handling in a negative way.

As for your battery holder, how about an FG battery holder? It will allow you to hold a TP3S4P or 9 sub C cells in one place.

[glassdoctor]

One good place for the controller is actually right next to the motor, on the side plate. It tucks in there nice, but I wanted to keep everything on the main chassis.

Behind the center diff is good for the wiring layout... it sits right between the battery and motor. I think a UBEC will fit under the controller, and then I'll mount the RX on the servo.

That FG battery holder would be nice for the 9 cell pack. Where did you get one?

The Feigao motors are very similar to Hackers. The 8L is about the same KV as the C50 maxx 12s, but it's an L size so it should have more torque with similar speeds. I have a C50 in my emaxx, which was supposed to be replaced with the 8L... but my buggy gets it. :)

[glassdoctor]

Nick, I have better resolution pics.. and lots more of them. When I get the car running I can send you some better pics if you want. I hope to get some video too at some point. I have a digital camcorder, but I've never tried uploading anything before....

[studysession]

Love the pics!

[Rotary Rocket]

GlassD, I got it from www.microrcshop.com.

I bought a couple in hopes of using it in my 1/5 project. I ended up modifying the Gorilla Maxx straps. Let me know if you want one.

Email me at LB9731@sbc.com

[OpIvy]

cool glass.
if you can cut the video into sections of 10mb or less, you can email em to me, and I can reassemble em and upload em to the site.
-Nick

[Rotary Rocket]

The derlin spur gear arrived today. Swaped out the metal gear out with no problems. The buggy sounds more quite now.

Also got an email from RC Alloys, he said the shafts are getting pinned today and will be shipped out tomorrow. :D

The final minor piece is the servo clamps which are also on their way.

I think my buggy will be finished by week's end.

[Rotary Rocket]

Just got an email form RC Alloys, my shafts shipped today. I'll post pics as soon as they arrive so you all can see how they compare to the stock shafts.

These shafts are bullit proof, and will stand up the power of brushless with no problems.

[glassdoctor]

She's ALIVE!!!! he he he he he... :D Mostly anyway.

I got to fire it up for the first time tonight, due to my "weather induced vacation day"... ice and snow storm kept me at home most of the day.

Got a few more pics, mostly showing the funky battery "compartment"... and the current running gear all installed.

There is still some work to do, changes to make, but it's up and running. It's cogging and/or glitching a bit too much. I think it's the Novak Mercury receiver (and I tried sticking the antenna in a tube)... it has had some glitching problems before. I hope a good rx will fix it, or moving the rx off the servo.

If not, I will probably have to add volts... I ran 12 cells with this controller in the emaxx and it never cogged like this.

Due again to the snowstorm, I could only play in a small area of my garage. Can't tell how fast it will be really, but it doesn't balloon the tires much. Seemed quick enough for a small track I guess.

Pics...
homemade battery mounting "compartment" for nickels and lipos... I had to mount it to the rock guards, so I added some extra mounting screws to hold the guards to the chassis. If it fails... then I will modify it. ;)

[glassdoctor]

another close up of the aluminum brackets and velcro...

The velcro straps are simply two pieces of "Industrial Strength" sticky back velcro, stuck to the brackets, and stuck back-to-back to form a strap. The box of velcro is in one of the pics... I got it at Sam's a long time ago.

[glassdoctor]

side view, see the velcro :)

[glassdoctor]

mount for fan...

[glassdoctor]

One more... after a brief test run.

[Rotary Rocket]

Very cool. Looking good. I like your idea with the custom battery tray.

You should think about getting a Kyosho MP7.5/Landmax derlin spur gear. The metal spur will wear your pinion out. What motor are you running again?

I actually got to test drive mine for a minute today too. Totally disappointed. The buggy was a dog!!! I think I will need to reset my controller to see if it is getting all the power. One minute into the test drive the set screw for the front drive shaft came loose so the buggy became 2WD. It was already dark out so I called it a night. I'll just wait for the RC Alloys drive shafts to arrive and will reset the controller before the next test.

The weather on the 11 PM news: Heavy thunder storm and rain for the next 7 days, biggest storm of the season yet. :rolleyes:

[Rotary Rocket]

I just read that you said your motor is an 8L. I think on 9 cells or 3S LiPos a 7L might be the hot ticket.

I have one, and will try it once I can get some small pinions from Starluck RC.

[glassdoctor]

Cool... I have the plastic spur gears on order. I would like to end up with a hardened steel pinion eventually.

The battery mount was too much work, and is unproven right now. But I like having a single pack... the wiring and battery changes are simpler.

BTW, I don't feel so bad about the esc/fan sticking up into the air so high... I was just checking out a nitro buggy with the .21 heat sink that was taller than the rear shock tower, which is way higher than my little fan. :)

Can we say the weather sux lately?

Hey, check out a pic of all the custom holes in the chassis, all countersunk of course...

[studysession]

Looks great!

[tcolesen]

Glassdoctor- I think that if you moved the reciever onto the top plate with velcro or something else inbetween the receiver and the aluminum you should get less glitching. It also looks like that would put the receiver higher up, which might make it pick up a better signal. It would also keep the receiver further from the motor and controller.
You 1/8th buggy is really looking nice. I think that the INDUSTRIAL strength velcro gives it an awesome look, and in my mind the thought of such strong velcro makes me think WOW :)

[glassdoctor]

Yeah, I have never tried mounting a rx on the servo before, and it's sitting right on top of a little motor basicly. So that's a good source of glitching... but these Mercury rxs are notorious for glitching. In fact I kept it on the shelf for several years... cause it's so bad. It works ok in a perfect environment. :)

Anyway, I'm getting those 2.4G Spektrum receivers when they are available. I think that will fix it 100%. In fact, I bet you could mount the rx on the motor... well maybe not. :D

The velcro is working pretty nice so far. I made the aluminum bracket thing with slots in it for a regular velcro strap, but then I figured I could just stick this heavy velcro right to the bracket. It will take quite a crash to rip the stuff off the brackets. The box is 20' and is like $13 at Sam's.. I have seen it at Home Depot, etc too.

One reason I made the bracket like it is... is for a littel extra protection for the lipos. It's like a roll cage if I make it a little taller... :)

[studysession]

I have mounted RX's ontop of servos like that and not had any problems.

[glassdoctor]

Cool... I hope to keep the rx there, I just need to swap out the "superglitchy" mercury.

I ran the dumb thing in a car a while back without problems, but I can't remember what car... probably the XX4 w/Novak 5800.

[studysession]

Cool... I hope to keep the rx there, I just need to swap out the "superglitchy" mercury.

I ran the dumb thing in a car a while back without problems, but I can't remember what car... probably the XX4 w/Novak 5800.

I used to keep the RX on the servo in my TC3. Had no problems.

What's the thumb thing?

[glassdoctor]

The Novak Mercury FM receiver is the "dumb thing" :)

It's still snowing outside... but I'm going to try a different rx tonight just as a test.

[glassdoctor]

Well, I tried a different rx and it seems much better. I could drive around in the basement without it spazin out on me. But there is a noticeable lag time before the power comes on. I don't know that I should call it cogging... it doesn't just stutter a little, but goes slow for a second and then kinda pauses half a sec... then full power. I've never had it act like that before with the C50 and 12-14 cells. I'm using a 5 cell rx pack too.

Has anyone run a Hacker Car esc on just 9 cells?

Anyway, back to the car. I weighed it tonight and it comes in at 7.9lbs rtr with the 9 cell GP3300 battery. (without the rx pack, which I won't be using, so I added 1 oz for a ubec) I can add or subtract a couple oz. with lipos depending on what packs I use. That's pretty good... very close to the same car in nitro trim.

One guy just posted on another forum his new TT buggy was 8.0 without fuel... and it's supposed to be the same weight as the Xray buggy... very light.

So it looks like our BL Kyoshos are as light as the best nitros. BTW, I like the looks of yours and the tires balloon more than mine..... :mad:

[Rotary Rocket]

GlassD, I have used my Comp controller with 6,7, and 2S with no problems. I don't think 9 cells are an issue.

It might be that 9 cells are not enough to wake up the 8L.

As I mentioned I was not impressed at all with mine either, and I ran mine on 4S!

I hope we are not so overgeared that it take the buggy a while to "wind up" to speed...

[studysession]

What gearing you you all running?

[Rotary Rocket]

Stock front and rear diffs (I don't know the ratio), and 12/46 for pinion and spur.

The motor is C50 Maxx (which I think is 3050 rpm/volt) on 4S4P (16.8 volts peak) LiPos.

[studysession]

I am running all three stock diff's on my Hyper 7 and a 16t pinion. Motor is a Feigao 10L and run on 12 cells. I think it is pleanty fast enough and has loads of torque - so not sure why you would think you are over geared?

Something does not sound right.

[glassdoctor]

The diffs (in both ofna and kyosho) should be 3.3:1 (13/43) if memory serves. So we are running FDR...
GD 11.7:1 32000rpm 2735 wheel rpm
RR 12.6:1 45000rpm 3570 wheel rpm
SS 9.5:1 35750rpm 3760 wheel rpm

You guys have pretty close rollouts... mine is a bit undergeared by comparison. 4s lipos would give me 3730 wheel rpm.... almost exactly where yours are. This is all just on paper of course, but that's the only way to compare setups.

The start-up problem I have I don't think is a power or torque issue... it seems pretty powerful once it decides to go. I will probably have to add cells to make it impressive though... we'll see. Snow has stopped btw. :)

[glassdoctor]

I have a short video from today... running on ice and snow. :) It was so slick I could barely get it up to speed so I just mashed the throttle and let it fishtail... not the greatest vid, but entertaining.

DualBL, can I email you a 9mb clip?

I also have a 60 sec clip of doing donuts in my garage, but I haven't got it on the computer yet.

Ok.. I just tried emailing it and got a message that it was refused due to size... I'll try zipping it and resending... size is now slightly smaller... 8.68mb

I think it's my mail server...

[OpIvy]

yeah, 9mb's fine
admin@dualbl.com
thnx
-Nick

[OpIvy]

glass, ygpm
-Nick

[OpIvy]

sorry to keep you all waiting.. but I just got up, to upload it to the server (7pm lol).

http://8ths.dualbl.com/videos/glassdoctor-777-snow-run-1.wmv

-Nick

[Rotary Rocket]

:eek:

Wow, that was awsome. How do you keep moisture out? I am shocked that you can run it on snow. :D We are going to have to call you Markus Grounholm (sp?)...

BTW, look what was waiting for me when I got home from work today. ;)

[SS Pede]

Yeah, how did you keep that thing dry?

Hehe...I should pay one of you guys to build me one of these buggies. Wow.

[glassdoctor]

I need to get the vid clip from in my garage uploaded too. I was searching for some dry ground and had to resort to doing donuts in the garage. :)

Gotta say the battery seemed to poop out too quick. Probably just seemed short because I ran it for a couple minutes in the street, then got the camera... then went to the garage, etc... but it felt like 5 min or less. ???


I didn't properly waterproof the electics as I should. All I did was use 2" tape to seal all around the bottom of the chassis/body. A little snow found it's way in, but not bad. I blew it out with an air hose as soon as I was done running.

If you wrap the rx and esc and silicone the servo, I think things would be pretty safe. Especially with the body gaps taped up.

Actually, once you have a buggy built it's pretty easy to duplicate it. So if someone used the same chassis as one of these projects, it may be possible to build up another one.

Heck, by this summer I might have a completely different design. If so, this chassis might be up for grabs... just the chassis, not the whole car. :D

That would be a cool thing to do, btw. Pick up an extra chassis and do a different layout just for kicks.

EDIT... I have the new vid clip ready. Can I use the ftp again?

[OpIvy]

eek, yeah, i forgot you mentioned a garage video lol.
ftp's back up.
-Nick

[glassdoctor]

This video is hilarious... I love it. :)

http://www.performancerc.net/dualbl/8ths/videos/reinhard-Crono_1_8_Elektro_highqual.wmv

[Rotary Rocket]

Love the vids...

Installed the driveshafts. Turned out the pin from the rear driveshaft was rubbing againts the carbon fiber motor plate. That is what was causing the buggy to go slow on my test drive (I hope).

Bench tested it after I remedied the rub and the tires seemed to ballon bigger than before.

I can't wait to try it out. Weather report: Heavy rains until Tuesday. :rolleyes:

[Mike Hall]

I have an idea. You can ship your buggy to me here in Sunny Georgia and I will test it out for you. LOL I just walked in from playing around with my Revo\E-maxx. LOL

Mike

[Rotary Rocket]

Ouch, sure rub it in... :p

[Mike Hall]

LOL, Sorry, I know you must be going nuts wanting to get that thing out and running.

[glassdoctor]

Rocket, are you living in an ark yet? ;)

I'm sure it's fast... ballooning tires is always a good thing. I need more juice to get my tires out of shape. :)

[Rotary Rocket]

The weather has been CRAZY lately, it snowed in southern California so much they shut down highway 5!!!

Glassdoctor, I have a Hacker 7L that would be perfect for a 9 cell buggy. Interested?

[OpIvy]

I think this vid shows just how quickly your buggy accelerates glass.
so little space, but it still looks beutiful :)

http://8ths.dualbl.com/videos/glassdoctor-donuts.wmv

-Nick

[studysession]

Cool videos.

[sugs]

Hey RR where are you at? I live down here in San Diego. (Gettin ready to go to the Chargers/Jets playoff game - Yessss!)

[Rotary Rocket]

Sugs, I am in Northern California (near San Francisco).

Sorry about your Chargers losing, I was pulling for them too. One hellaoff a game though...

[glassdoctor]

I got one of the plastic spur gears for my buggy. I put the 44T gear in it and I also swapped out the 13T pinion for the 18T "emaxx" gear. That's a huge jump. The tires balloon some now on the test bench. :)

I did a couple quick donuts inside... it's much quieter and obviously is faster with the gear change. But the lag on startup I think is worse now. It's almost like a delayed start. It doesn't jerk and stutter, it starts out real slow for a full second and then launches pretty hard. Again... I never noticed it like that in the emaxx.

I need to get a new 13T gear now that I have the plastic spur. The one I had on it was getting chewed already with the steel spur and I didn't want to run the messed up pinion on the new plastic spur. But for now it's a 18/44 speed run car.

If I can find some dry ground tomorrow I want to see what it can do with this taller gear. I will try 12 cells also if I find a good place to run it. That should make it really fly.


Sorry bout the Chargers... I watched Nate kick many clutch field goals for the Hawkeyes. In fact in his Jr and Sr years he only missed 3 field goals total and never misssed an important one. He is money from 50 yards in... I think he had a game at Iowa where he made 2 from +50 yds. He just had just a bad break today... I was shocked.

If it makes ya feel any better I'm a Viks fan so tomorrow I'll have to endure another torturous loss. We viks fans expect it :)

[sugs]

Thanks guys, it was an incredible game to be at and overall it was a great year for the Chargers. I guess now I'll be able to concentrate more on r/c stuff. ;-)

[glassdoctor]

Got some small test results. I just ran the buggy with the 18/44 gears and 9 cells for a speed run with GPS unit strapped in.

Got 44.1mph... not too bad. It still accelereates pretty quick but I don't know yet if the controller can take a lot of running like that. I'm sure it's not a good racing setup.

What's interesting is that 44 is better than I expected. I had figured getting about 1 volt per cell under load, but the 3300s must hold a little higher volts than that when the car is at speed. Because at 9.0 volts, the calculated "on paper" speed is 46mph, and I never expected to see more than 80% of "paper" speeds in actual testing.

Also, the tires may have ballooned enough to alter the calculations. It was dark so I couldn't see the car very well. I ran it under a street light on a damp four lane street when no cars were near. :)

Battery voltage under load makes a big difference in figuring speeds on paper. My 9 cells for example:

1.0v under load= 46mph
1.2v under load= 56mph

These are max figures without accounting for efficiency losses of the motor and esc, and wind drag and weight drag.... so 44 is too good. :D

If I can get away from work tomorrow for a few minutes, I will try a different gear and 12 cells hopefully to see how it compares with calculated guessing.

[Rotary Rocket]

finally got a break in the weather. :D

Throw on some tarmac tires and tested the buggy. Speed was NOT impressive (although the ground was damp, so there was a lot of wheel spin). Cogging was almost non existant.

The buggy would spin out a lot, but again I think it was because of the conditions more than anything else.

The buggy thermalled after 5 minutes! I don't think the Hacker C50 Maxx is a good motor for this conversion.

Now I will have to wait for Jaime to get some 12, 13 pinions in, so I can try it with a Feigao 8L.

I have a 46 spur, and since Glassdoctor tried his with a 18/44, I might just go for a 15/46 and see how hot the motor gets.

[Rotary Rocket]

I installed the 8L with 15/46 gearing and went for a drive.

Now the speed is impressive. Very good bottom end, still not much cogging. I also installed an antenna tube to get better reception. It worked.

Now the bad news, after 5 minutes of running, it thermalled again. The 8L on 15/46 with 4S (12-14 cell equivanlent) is not a good setup for this conversion.

The next step is either gear down to 12-13 pinion, or put the Plette motor in with 15/46 gearing.

[Rotary Rocket]

Next the Plette Maximum went in. Still on 15/46 gearing.

WOW, this motor is strong. No hint of cogging. The buggy would come out of corners much stronger, and the top speed was visibility much higher.

Ran it for 5 minutes, at the end of the run the buggy started to thermal...

I think 12 or 13 for pinion (with a 46 spur) is going to be the right set up.

I put some holes in the windows of the buggy, but will need to find a better way to get air circulating around the motor. I don't want to butcher the body because I want to keep the dirt out. Any ideas guys?

[Reinhard]

hey..
i have a Lehner 1930-8 (triangle)
i wana use with 17cells in the car..

how would you gear that ? (final ratio)

or:
hacker C40-10L
how would you gear that ? (for 10cell-use)

somebody has posted a vid of mine before (CRONO with robbe 420-5 brushed-motor and 10cells)

[glassdoctor]

I don't have these motors but...

I bet the 1930-8 (1959kv correct?) would run well with around an 8:1 ratio (@18T pinion) for going really fast if the controller can handle it. But for racing or genreal running I would think a little lower gear would be better since you can't go 50mph on most tracks. :)
17 cells (average 1.0-1.1v under load) and 8:1 should run in high 50's top end, my guess.

The C4010L is 3000kv like many motors we have used... C5012s 8L Maxximum etc... 17 cells is a lot for this motor so gear it as low as you can.. @12:1 with the stock 1/8 center gears. (12-13/46) C4010L on 18v = 60+mph with 13/46.

I'm guessing a 15:1 or so ratio would be better, or just drop to 12-14 cells and be happy. ;)

[Rotary Rocket]

Hello Reinhard, good to see you on the board.

I don't know anything about the Lehner, but the C40 is "too small" for the 1/8 buggy. I think it will over heat.

Not enough Mod 1 pinions are available for testing here in US.

Look forward to you trying out your buggy with one of your BL motors.

[glassdoctor]

Rocket... I only ran for a minute or two with the 18/44 gears, just a few passes to get a good speed reading.

I'm sure I would have problems with heat if I ran a whole pack like that, esp. since I only have the 66A sport esc.

Thermalling at 5 min. doesn't sound good... I need to get mine to run 20 minutes in the summer heat. :(

For the cooling thing, I don't want to hack up the body either. I was planning to cut out the lower part of the w/s... and maybe try a dust screen of some kind, like maybe black nylons... aka "panty hose" ha ha. Or some material like that to let the air in but keep some crap out. Maybe jsut a fine mesh screen, because dust will get in no matter what, but a wire screen will keep out little rocks, etc.

[Reinhard]

in the moment (maybe you have seen the video)
i use a robbe sports 420/5 brushed motor (220g heavy)

it can handle 30A continously and 50A short..
has 2200kv (but i think thats on no-load)
22000rpm - 26.000rpm

so:
Hacker C40-10L
with 10cells..
3000kv ---> should be around 33000rpm

for the Lehner 1930-8:
its in star-configuration
on 17cells:

http://www.lehner-motoren.de/diagram/1930/1930-8.18s/liste.txt

1930/8 timing 15ø sterngeschaltet

Spann. Strom PEing. Drehz. Moment PAusg. Wirk.
Volt Amp. Watt U/Min. Ncm Watt %
17,80 6,71 119,4 28357,8 3,00 89,0 74,5
17,80 8,58 152,8 28206,9 4,15 122,5 80,2
17,79 10,65 189,4 28049,5 5,40 158,6 83,7
17,77 14,00 248,8 27777,0 7,50 218,3 87,7
17,77 17,33 308,0 27515,7 9,54 274,8 89,2
17,75 22,66 402,3 27093,7 12,88 365,4 90,8
17,73 26,42 468,5 26803,7 15,22 427,2 91,2
17,72 28,48 504,7 26635,0 16,53 461,2 91,4
17,71 33,39 591,4 26218,3 19,63 538,9 91,1
17,69 37,81 668,9 25833,0 22,47 607,8 90,9
17,68 41,43 732,5 25544,8 24,81 663,6 90,6
17,68 43,09 761,8 25405,0 25,88 688,5 90,4
17,66 45,85 809,8 25183,6 27,67 729,6 90,1

so: around 26.000rpm

very low currents, so i think i don´t get any problem with ESC (1895mikro)

700Watt poweroutput at 45A is much more than my robbe sports420/5 does now (i bet not more than 400Watt poweroutput)

my goal: 25-30mph topspeed

-----------------------------------

so for that:
maybe my Hacker C40-10L will still work ?
3s4p Konion1600
(6400mAh, 516g, 120$
9-10Volt under load
can do 50A continously and
75A for 5seconds
the batts are LiIon, can be charged with 2C ! and have a metal-casing so no risk of damaging the cells..)

that would mean: 550 - 600Watt poweroutput..
still a lot more than my robbe sports 420/5
and rpm is around 27.000rpm

what do you think on that kind of power because of heat ??

(i know: your buggies run past 35mph, and in the 1000Watt+ range)

[Reinhard]

I don't know anything about the Lehner, but the C40 is "too small" for the 1/8 buggy. I think it will over heat.

well..
the C40-10L is one of the most popular motor for E-Maxx here in Germany/Austria...
not to hard for the drivetrain...
no heat-isues (also i have to consider, that e-maxx-style-driving is not the same like driving on a track without a second motor-off)

so: E-Maxx = 4,5kg (1,2kg heavy wheels, lot of rotating mass)
my Buggy 1:8 = 3,5kg (very light wheels compared to e-maxx-wheels)

hmm... the more i think about it, the more i bet the c40-10L will work great for me..

[Rotary Rocket]

I should make one thing clear about my tests with the C50, 8L, and Plette Max. In all three cases I had a "motor" thermal (if that makes sense).

I have a fan on the controller and it never got over 120F. It was as cool as 112F with the Plette. The C50 got to 247F, the 8L got to 176, and the Plette got to 147. These numbers are all with 5 minutes (plus or minus 1 minute) of running a short on-road track with heavy breaking. At the first instance of thermalling I stopped the run and took readings.

BTW, the TP 4S4P never got over 120F (perfect temp for them), and the UBEC was a cold 70F (it was about 50F outside).

Reinhart, by numbers alone it looks like the C40 would work. In reality I think the buggy would not handle well with 17 cells, so I would try the C40 on 10 cells myself. It is always easier to make a lighter car handle well than a heavier car.

[Reinhard]

@Rotary Rocket:
the 17-cell-idea was with the Lehner 1930-8 star-configuration
(only around 1700rpm/Volt)

the same motor with triangle-configuration: 2600rpm/volt
(10-12cells)

as said: don´t want topspeed..
want a setup that i can controll on the track..
on this track:

http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Bilder2/Buggybahn_Fehring/Actionbilder%20von%20Franky/PICT1362.jpg

http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Bilder2/Buggybahn_Fehring/Actionbilder%20von%20Franky/PICT1382.JPG

pictures of it:
http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Bilder2/Buggybahn_Fehring/Buggybahn_stitched_klein.jpg

http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Bilder2/Buggybahn_Fehring/Stitched_Result2_ausschnitt.jpg

so you see: not that big

http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Bilder2/Buggybahn_Fehring/P8280002_Seitenansicht.jpeg
my brushed Crono 1:8 with 420/5
already faster than my

Tamiya- Blazing-Star with 15Turn-Motor
http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Bilder2/Buggybahn_Fehring/P8280001_Schraegansicht.jpeg

(yeah.. on both cars wrong tieres for that track, i know ;) )

for Lipos:
have you protected yours in a special way ?
i have mine ( 3s2p 4200 Thunderpower) protected for the Losi XXX-4
this way:
http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Bilder2/XXX-4/ThunderPower3s2p.jpeg

[Rotary Rocket]

Reinhart, I understood that you wanted the 17 cell set up with the Lehner motor, I was just commenting on the weight of the buggy with 17 cells.

How many teeth on your spur gear? Also what is the shaft diameter on your C40 10L?

You might want to start with a 4.6 (spur/pinion) ratio.

Nice track, it looks like the far right hand loop does not go anywhere. :D

[Rotary Rocket]

As for the LiPos, I made sure mine sit flat on the aluminu chassis and no part is on the flexible stone guards. Secondly I have thick velcro underneath it to act as shock absorbers. On top there is a velcro strap that will make sure the battery does not fly off in a crash.

The boddy is sealed against the stone guards via velcro also, so no debris will hit the battery from the side.

My only weak point is if the rear center drive shafts breaks and punchures the batteries. The RC Alloys driveshafts are very strong, so the chance of this happening is very very small.

[Reinhard]

for the track..
yeah.. made out of 5 pictures.. thats why this little "missstake"..
so: its not a "black-hole"-track.. in reality you can go round and round and round..

hacker C40-10L: 3,17mm shaft (like Basic4200)
well: hope it can handle the stress (jumping)
i know: a 4mm-shaft would be better..

for spure: i can´t measure/count in the moment but will remind your post

abc==============================================c ba

another question:
is there any kind of "Slipper" out there that can be used on a 1:8 ??
yes, you can go with the nitro-clutch..
but i would prefere a way like the E-maxx-Slipper (or the improved aftermarket-parts)

that would be cool...
1.) less stress on jumping for tranny
2.) higher traction on track, better setup-possibilities
3.) less amp-peaks

a way would be to use a E-maxx-Tranny..
but then no center-diff :(
(maybe a free-turning-unit like you can get for XXX-4 can be installed for the front-wheels ?? - but then no frontwheel-braking anymore...)

so the next big stepp in my opinion for 1:8-conversions would be:
fit a (robust good working) slipper on the center-diff !

[Rotary Rocket]

You can possibly use an OFNA Dominator center slipper, but Craps did not like it and said it was not very strong (he was using a 10XL on 6S4P LiPo though).

The E-maxx tranny is too big, heavy, and lots of gears to turn. Not effiient.

As you mention, the front one way will not let you have front brakes and it will make your buggy spin in the dirt with rear breaks only.

The best solution so far seems to be to use an OFNA Ultra, or Kyosho MP7.5 (or Landmax) center diff so you can put a plastic spur gear on. Then you adjust your center diff via different weight oils to suit your track/conditions.

Since the C40 has the small shaft what are you going to do for a pinion? All Mod 1 pinions that I have seen all have 4 or 5 mm shaft diameters.

[Reinhard]

why does the OFNA Dominator has such a center slipper ?
(i mean: it is a nitro-car, an nitro-cars have already the clutch which is a kind of slipper) ?
just curiouse...
6s4p, Hacker XL ? ---> well: i guess he can see peaks of 1600Watt on that...
i will have halfe the power.. so...

for the pinion:
i don´t use pinions.. i use the clutch, but remove the clutch-part by a lathe...

then i get pinions with modul1 and 8mm hole...

8mm is the diameter of the hole of all props i use in electric-flying..
and for 3 euro there are prop-mounts for
2,3mm motorshafts
3mm motorshafts
3,2mm motorshafts
4mm motorshafts
5mm motorshafts

take a closer look to this:http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Bilder2/CRONO/Fahrfertig_420_5/Motor420_5_im_Buggy_P8010032.jpeg
can you see it ?

it was for me the easiest way (even if not the most beautiful)


for spur: hardened steel.. but i would prefer a plastic one with wide theeths too !!

well: first i have to get new shocks for my Crono (the old ones are very short compared to nowadays 1:8-buggy-shock-length, and for that i do not have much travel on the suspension at all)
if the buggy handels well, maybe i will get a center-diff from an ofna or a kyosho (not the kanai, right ? the 7.5 is the palstic one ?)

[Reinhard]

for the slipper:

http://www.ofna.com/images/dom_slipper_600.gif
see i right: no diff ?

have heard that buggies without centerdiff are not good to drive..

(Mr. constructor on the other hand drives all his cars without centerdiff..)

[joemama]

rotary rocket: the reason your 8L thermalled so fast is because that controller sucks..use the 9918 with that setup and thermalling would be nonexistent.

[Rotary Rocket]

Reinhart, you have the right slipper in the picture. Great idea about the prop adaptor. I had seen the picture of your buggy before but could not figure out how you had your pinion mounted on the motor. If you are modifying Nitro clutch bells (they are hardened steel) then there is no need to change the spur to plastic.

If you still want to change to plastic, then you are correct you want to get the plastic spur for Kyosho MP7.5 (kanai has the steel spur).

joemama, I have had very good luck with the Hacker controllers. Specially the comp will put up with a lot before thermaling. I have a fan on the controller and it never got over 120F, so I don't see how the controller is what is thermalling.

I also have a 7018 controller myself that I use on my Tamiya TGX 1/8 on-road BL conversion. It is OK. Not as smooth as the Hacker controller. It used to thermal all the time while using a Lehner 4200 with 4S4P (even with a fan on it).

[Rotary Rocket]

Today I tested the buggy without body to eliminate the thermaling issue. It helped, but did not cure it.

After 5 minutes or running (same track as before), it thermalled slightly. I took temp readings and the motor was 146F, the controller 150. Previously I was taking the readings from the heatsink which is being cooled by the fan. This time I read the capacitors and sure enough it is the controller that is overheating.

I ran the buggy for 5 more minutes, and it would thermal on and off. The final motor temp got to 150F, and the controller at 150F also. The second 5 minutes I did some straight passes to see what the top speed is like, very impressive. Can anyone do the math to see what it might have been.

I just got a new digi cam, so it will be a while before I buy a GPS.

[starluckrc]

Motors don't thermal though. The Hacker is notorious for holding heat. The heat may not have made it to the heatsink yet, but it is probably much hotter inside. Mine eventually got to that point to where it would shut down on motors that weren't pulling that much current really.

[glassdoctor]

Exactly... it's hard to know how much hotter the controller is inside when we have a heatsink and hard case with a fan on it. I actually checked mine that time I ran in the snow, and it didn't even feel warm until a few minutes after the run, after the fan was turned off.. then I could feel some heat on the side of the case.

As mentioned in the past, it's possible to thermal or blow a controller before the heatsinks can even get hot enough to know there's a problem.

RR, what setup were you running? We could make a good guess if you ran the 8L like I did on the speed run.

[glassdoctor]

Reinhard,

25-30 mph is about what my goal is for racing on my small track also... I would like to have mid to high 30's top end if I can, but near 30 would work fine.

My modified class off road 1/10 cars can do 30's so I would like to have my 1/8 at least be as fast as my little B4...

I bet the B4010L would be a good 25-30 motor on 10-12 cells. Can you get a 11T pinion? What center gears do you have? An 11/46 center gear seems about right... on 10-12 cells that should be around 30-35mph max top speed.

The dominator slipper would allow lower gear ratios... I have seen it with metal and plastic gears.

As for no diff in the center, I don't know... 1/10 off road cars don't use a center diff and they do fine. I'm curious to find out what the handling will be like with the braking on the center diff... and what a spooled center diff would be like.

I have thought about putting a one-way in the front drive shaft. That will give better steering into the corners. I think a center spool and a one-way front would do well. I've never heard of anyone try that before.

[glassdoctor]

Hey... about the prop adapter... I'm going to look into that! I have been meaning to look for some material to make the nitro bell into a pinion but wasn't sure where to find an easy solution. Sounds cool...

[Rotary Rocket]

GlassD, I am running 15/46 with stock front and rear diffs with a Plette Maximum motor. Thanks for calculating my speed. :)

[glassdoctor]

I'm guessing on the volts and tire dia... the lipos are probably 3.3-3.4 max per cell under load based on typical discharge graphs I have seen. The tires you ran are the road tread right? They are smaller... maybe 4" instead of 4.5" dia?

Your K2 Maxximum, 4s Lipo, 15/46...

3150kv x 13.6v (3.4/cell)= 42840rpm
42840/ 10.23:1 gear ratio= 4187rpm at wheels

4187 x .0141 = 58mph (stock 1/8 buggy tires slightly ballooned like 1/4 or less)
4187 x .0119 = 49mph (guess for smaller road tires ....4" dia)

Using that math, my car was only slightly off the #'s.. 44.1mph gps vs. 46mph on paper.

The key variable is the battery voltage under load... I try to estimate what the actual volts under load is to get a more accurate guess. The battery volts can drop dramaticly under excess loads. Lipos should maintain at least 3.2v per cell if you aren't abusing them to bad.

I have seen discharge tests where batteries dropped to half the nominal volts when the load was too much. So a calculated speed could be way off if the setup is a bad one. Without having an on-board telemetry gadget it's impossible to know.

Getting actual speed tests helps... then we can know at least what the rpm of the motor was and get an idea what the volts must have been.

One thing I have no idea of is how a particular motor performs.. what the kv actually is for a given load. There is a limit where the motor has to fail to maintain it's rated 3's also. There are some manufacturer #'s on this but it's hard to find that for most motors.

What I mean is, if the kv is really constant, then we can figure the rpms at max speed and then know what the volts were exactly... if the kv is a constant.

[Reinhard]

the rpm depens on load...
look for the lehner-Diagramms:

at 9A current: kv is 4550rpm/volt
at 20A current: kv 4360rpm/volt
at 40A current: kv 4060rpm/volt
at 56A current: kv 3800rpm/volt
at 72A current: kv 3660rpm/volt

[glassdoctor]

I wish we had the specs like that for all the motors. I haven't seen those #'s for Hackers of Feigaos.

[glassdoctor]

RotaryR... I found out the trouble you had with the emaxx gears. :D The gears I used are the hop-up "x" parts. These gears are hard anno'd aluminum and they drill and tap very easy. The ones you were using are the stock steel ones. I picked up a stock shaft at the lhs and tried doing the 13T... and it doesn't drill or tap very good at all. I finally broke mine too. I almost got it tapped through. It's like some pot metal junk... it's very hard to tap and about ruined the tap I used.

If the aluminum gear wears ok with the plastic spur, they are an easy source for 13 and 18 tooth gears. The 3993x part is @$12.

[Rotary Rocket]

Glassdoctor, you are a freaking GENIOUS. You cracked the code... :D

I will be off to the hobby shop tomorrow.

[glassdoctor]

I picked up a 12T HPI clutch bell to make a pinion gear. The inside diameter of the gear is 8mm. I found a prop adapter that should work but the LHS will have to order it. It's made to fit 5mm shafts and 8mm props. So it should be almost plug and play... just jb weld it on and cut off part of the prop adapter that's not used.

For now, I'm going to try a homemade version. I have some tubing that fits pretty good as an adapter, to make the 8mm gear fit a 5mm shaft.

I'm heading to a race tomorrow so it will have to wait until next week. I hope it works fine. The clutch bell is only $6. The prop adapter is $10.. the tubing is cheap. It would be nice to just buy what you want... but I don't know of any 12-13T mod1 5mm gears. It's kinda fun messin with stuff anyway.

[Rotary Rocket]

Starluck RC might be getting some 12 and 13 Mod 1 pinions soon. Don't hold Jaime to it though. This is just an FYI...

[Rotary Rocket]

Thanks to ColdFusion for hosting my video.

I would like to thank DualBl also, I just could not get my video to him.

Hacker C50, on 12/46 gearing.

www.coldfusionracing.com/Larry/Buggy.avi

[Rotary Rocket]

Hello from SUNNY California, the rains finally stopped and the ground is starting to dry out. :)

Got a chance to finally take the buggy on the dirt, WOW what a difference. This thing is a total BEAST. I am still on 15/46 and it did thermal after 15 minutes of run time.

There is a lot more wheel spin on dirt, and since I was just on a hill it was more wide open running rather than stop and go.

The dirt was very sticky, I actually traction rolled a couple of times. Nothing broke. The buggy jumps very well, very impressive balance. It landed on its tires every time, just like a cat. :D

Now all I need is a 12 or 13 pinion to cure my thermal issue, and possibly changing out the Hacker Comp ESC for an MGM 12012.

This buggy is by far the fastest off-road RC I have ever had.

[studysession]

Sweet -

The video was very good. The yellow dots really helped with perspective with distance and speed. ;) Very nice.

[glassdoctor]

Cool... nice to see a vid.

I have an update on mine. I took it with me to the indoor trophy race in Chillicothe MO. I geared it back to 13/44 and made up a 12 cell pack which should be a very good setup. I ran it in the parking lot for a minute and it was fast and had less cogging. With 12 cells it had way more punch. I didn't check mph.

I was hoping to get a few laps with it to see what it can do. But my speedo is toast. I only ran it for about one lap. It started losing power and you could smell that familiar burnt plastic odor. It still runs the motor but just barely. On the bench it takes 3-4 seconds for it to spool up to full rpm and on the ground it can barely get around. Oh well... at least it didn't go up in flames like a schulze would. ;)

Anyone got that MGM 120 yet? MrC can get it for @$250...

I think I might have damaged the speedo when I had it geared at 18/44... 8:1 FDR. I thought I could smell it then but wasn't sure.

Anyway, I think now I will run 4s lipos with a lower kv motor, like a 12L (and a new esc :) ) and gear up if needed.

[studysession]

You were using a hacker ESC???

I am using the Warrior with an 10L on 12 cells. Runs good for me. Did you ever get the pinions drilled? I was successful but have an issue. Once I figure out the issue then I will post how to do it easily. I have a meeting this Thurs and that should answer my issue.

But it is not hard to get it where you can drill and tapp the pinions from the EMaxx. Let me figure out this issue first before I post it. ;)

[tcolesen]

Hey glassdoctor, you said that now the Hacker controller takes a few seconds to spool up. My 9918 got damaged, and would do almost that exact same thing. I would pull full throttle, then a few seconds later the electricity would hit the motor. A second later I would see some smoke coming from the controller.

RR-great looking buggy. Those orange-red wheels add good style.

[glassdoctor]

The motor runs as soon as I squeeze throttle, but it spools up very slow. Almost like a jet engine winding up.. :)

My uneducated guess is that the caps are toast... I will call Hacker and see if they think it's salvagable.

Anyone know if they will exchange the 8 cell model for the car sport/comp for guys who have been waiting over a year, since they don't yet have a 12 cell?

The 3993X aluminum gears drill and tap easily. The stock 3993 gears ruined my tap and drill bit... and finally broke.

[Mr. Constructor]

The drilling of brittle cast metal (such as the standart pinions are mostly) is only able to do with a new fresh E-Co metal drill bit, even the titanium nitrid ones (the golden surface on the drill sector) will not really that sharp, i use the E-Co (cobalt reinforced hardened metal drill bits) bits to even cut titan !!
(but at all: there will be 3,17, 4 and 5mm pinions from 12-20 and from 40-60 (as a maingear) available in my shop within the next few weeks.)

It IS hard to bore such brittle material.

As for the speedos: the main fets are slightly damaged due to the damage of the 2 or even 3 capacitors, these are mostly the weak point esp. in the schulze esc´s (as they´re rated around 25V the warrior´s are at 63 V so it takes a little more time to kill em !!)

The Hacker might only be replaced by the 8 cell esc again, the 12 cell is in the production as far as i know, i will contact him in a few days to see what happened to the esc to the final stage (the Proto i had was very much a handsample)

[glassdoctor]

Great, MrC... keep us updated on this stuff. Thanks.

[Rotary Rocket]

Thanks to GlassD for clueing me to the alum optional e-maxx gears.

I modified it a bit by putting it on a drill press and while the drill was running I used a dremel with a cutting disk to cut down the teeth and make the shaft section longer.

Took the gear off the original shaft, drill and tapped it for a 4MM set screw.

Installed it and went for a drive, after 10-15 minutes she thermalled again. :confused:

I guess the Hacker Comp is not the right controller for this application.

[studysession]

Mr C - I was able to drill and tap with no problems - I had a different issue that will be figured out thursday night. I did not have to use any special bits, just standard stuff. I will post the exact of what I did after I get this last issue figured out, I will also have pics.

[studysession]

Any new news? I did not get to go and figure out the issues last Thurs like I thought. had some issues to take care of at home. Will be going this thurs to get it taken care of... Will be posting about it shortly after.

Mean time - here are pics of my Hyper 7 PBS Brushless setup:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=467

[ron v. sommeren]

High-power do-it-yourself brushless motor discussion:
www.yahoogroups.com/group/lrk-torquemax

Also lots of discussion in the "power systems' subforum over at www.rcgroups.com

[Rotary Rocket]

Study, nice pics. Have you had a chance to fix your buggy yet?

This week end the weather was perfect, 72 F. :D I ran every off-road RC I've got. Broke a lot of them, but it was amazing fun.

Here is something intresting I wanted to share with you all in regards to LiPos. I ran two packs of 2S4P TP 8000 in my BL e-maxx for about 10 minutes. She has a Feigao 8L geared 15/53. Super fast, super fun.

Then I took the same set of packs and put them in the BL Kanai. WOW, this is the fastest this buggy has ever gone. The packs were 125 F, and I guess they like being warm. Prior to this run the weather was always around 50 F, and I started out with "cold" packs in this buggy. I am VERY impressed with the speed and torque of the Plette on 13/46 gearing.

The Hacker Comp thermalled again at about 15 minutes into the run. I can't wait for Starluck RC to get the MGM 12120 controller to cure the thermalling issue and go race againts nitro buggies.

[studysession]

Thanks for the compliments - Yes, I did fix it.

Not been able to do to much with it. Taking care of some personal things with the family more right now. Will get back to it soon.

[buggie_boy]

good job on the buggy rotary rocket, what size engine did you use?

[Rotary Rocket]

It is a "540" sized motor. Although the shaft is longer and thus has more torque than regular 540 motors.

[TimisTim]

Hey guys very interesting thread and the best read I have had in a while......I am planning on converting a Hot Bodies lightning and need some experienced geniuses such as yourselves. I am not sure if you are familiar with this buggy but I am worried about hardware for this swap. My main concern is a motor mount, can I just buy e-maxx motor mount and cut it up like I saw earlier? Or can I commision someone to make one :D . It would be greatly appreciated.

Is there anything else that I should be worried about mating up? Driveshafts (I will be hitting up rcalloys once I can measure a few things), braces, etc.

The controller I have is a U-force 75 and I plan on running a Feigao 10L on twelve cells. Jamie said he has heard of this working and to add a small fan to the controller with a 11t or 12t pinion. If this controller wont work easily should I wait for the new MGM 12120 controller?

One last thing...the metal spur gears that need to be changed to plastic...would someone know where to find them for the lightning?

I am purchasing this buggy from Jamie at starluck and will try to post pics once we figure everything out.

[tcolesen]

A better thread for this would be this one:
http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?t=183460

It covers all BL 1/8 conversions and how they were done. You also might be able to find much more information there.

[Rotary Rocket]

TimisTim, consider this a reply to your PM too.

Tcolesen is right, you should post in the regular 1/8 scale buggy. You will probably get more responses.

As for the controller, I would wait for the MGM. By the time your are done with your buildup he might have them available.

As for the center spur, you could buy a whole center asymbly from ebaY for an Ultra Pro (I think it comes with a plastic spur), and swap it out. They go for around $25.

Look at dual BL's web site, he has almost everyone's buggy conversion posted. You will find invaluable info there. Also read through the entire buggy BL conversion (part 1 by Craps, and part 2).

If you have a dremel, then your best bet is to modify an emaxx motor plate.

[TimisTim]

Thanks for the reply's, I have alot of planning ahead.

I just tried www.dualbl.com and it just keeps stopping on a blank black page. :confused:

I tried a couple of weeks ago and it did the same thing.

[A4DTM]

http://8ths.dualbl.com
I took dualbl.com down, because i've got too much going on in my non-rc life, and didn't want to deal w/ it at the moment.
-Nick

[Mr. Constructor]

If you could wait for a time . . . .
There will be another solution . . . . ;-)

esp. for the HB Buggys, Trucks and even the new ones !!

[glassdoctor]

Just a thought about the HB... it's a Kyosho clone. Most suspension parts, etc can be swapped. I don't know about the diffs and center diff mounts, they may be different, but if they are the same then you could get a Kyosho plastic center gear or a complete center diff.

[TimisTim]

Mr. C why do you tease me so.... Can you give me some hints? Mabey a hint at a time frame? :D

Glassdoctor, Thanks for this piece of info I had no idea about this being a clone. Should help me out with parts later on.

Im still worried about the motor mount. The e-maxx mount looks pretty thin and succeptible to bending. I had read about putting a brace or spacer on the opposite end of the motor can so it is not just suspended on the motor mount.

[glassdoctor]

If you mount the motor over the diff like RotaryRocket's, I would either double up the emaxx plates or use a thicker material and make one from scratch like RR's. This is intentional overkill for peace of mind.

But the emaxx motor plate is pretty strong, so you should be ok just using it as is... it works just fine in the emaxx, right?

BTW, I'm told the Lightning is a K2 clone and the Lightning 2 is a K3 clone if I recall correctly... my guess is the diffs are probably not exactly the same.

[TimisTim]

Glass, would the diffs use the same mounting holes though, and mabey internal gear ratio?

And by k2 do you mean Kanai edition 2. :o

[glassdoctor]

I would guess the mounting holes would be the same, but the spacing between the front and rear diff mounts could be different. The kyosho diffs are shorter than some others. Even if it's slightly different I think it can work fine.

The only reason a Kyosho diff is nice is that you can get a plastic gear for it. I really don't know if the HB diffs are compatible or not...

Yeah... k2=kanai 2

[TimisTim]

Sounds good, thanks.

I'll save the rest of my questions for the thread I will start in the future when I start my project.

[Mr. Constructor]

@ TimisTim:

sorry, but the web shop hasn´t been completed yet and so there are no pics out yet, as the prototype is yet OK all tests have been made and now it´ll be time for the production, there will be a conversion kit (for several 8th buggies out there, some of them: hb lightning, lightning 2 and the stadium truck too.

sorry for teasing you a little, but it isn´t that easy to get them built when wanting very good material (carbon, hardened alu, niro screws, delring gears, steel pinions, and tuning options like slipper a.so.) so the process might take a little time, but here are some major datas:
11,5 cm wide, driveable with gody underbody and 12x 3300´s under 3,1 kg, slipper as an option, throughout carbon, extreme low cg (highest point from under the chassis: 45 mm (top of the motors heatsink)

yust to tease you a little more ;-)

sorry the webshop will show all details and the options and many other parts for the self builder too (like special mod 1 and mod 0,7 gears (steel, alloy,delrin, brass) esc´s motors a.so.

[TimisTim]

Hey Mr. C,

Why don't you throw one of those kits my way so an inexperienced person can test its ease of swappability. :rolleyes:

I guess I will wait it out and see what you come up with. Mabey I'll save for some lipos in the meantime. :)

And by the way Mr. C when can you sell me one of those MGM 120Amp controllers?

[Mr. Constructor]

they´re available now !!
the 120A version is 189 Euro, the 80A is 155 Euro, the 40 A is 109 Euro (ideal for "big" 18th trucks) the 25 A is 89 Euro (ideal for 18th or smaller)
all plus shipping.

these prices are the latest ones, feel free to email me at:
constructor@ace-cars.de

i will try to answer all questions asap !!

there are rel. cheap good motors too, check out the page:

http://www.jamara-produkte.de/OSSHOP/product_info.php?cPath=73_74_222&products_id=927

the price will be around 140-150 Euro (without shipping), the shown boat cooling belt could be moved away.

[TimisTim]

Well it looks as though luck is not in my cards right now. My buggy project is going to be set-off for a little while whilst I repair my 1:1 car (73 Nova). Just blew my tranny :( , but it was a helluva race against a trans-am! So it went out with a bang.

[Mr. Constructor]

sh*t happens, but have you won anyway or does that happened in the "race" ;-)

OK, no matter, if there´s time for the project take a look in the mgm car esc thread, maybe there are news then !!

good luck for your oldie car (1:1) could you still get parts for it even after it is a 31 year old one ???

damn thing either, so many time will be consumed after looking at some stores who has those parts !!

good luck !!

[TimisTim]

Well I would have won, but my transmission gave out halfway through. Just have to get a stronger one ;). Its a very universal parts car, and can be rebuilt ($700 :eek: ). Heres a pic of the car, but it was taken with a not so good camera phone.

[Mr. Constructor]

seems to be in good to excellent shape, so the money should be worth it !!
i haven´t had the time to built on these good old cars, so i gave that up forever, not to mention that the place and machinery isn´t that cheap at all (as i would love to make my own things there too)

so i stuck to rc since over 20 years now !!
(8th scale is way enough fun, it doesn´t have to be 1:1 !!

;-)

good luck with your tranny re-built !!

[Rotary Rocket]

I saw this spur gear on ebaY, it is for a Kyosho Landmax which as far as I know uses the same center diff as the Kanai.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19168&item=5976014382&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

The spur is 51 teeth (even though it says 52 in the description), and would help my over heating problem. The seller also told me this spur is plastic.

Does anyone know if this will fit my Kanai's center diff?