O.T. - rockets

[Chris LaPanse]

Well, DD, you asked for it, so here it is. This is about the two new rockets I got for christmas. First off, does anyone else on this thread do model rockets? Here are the two new rockets that I got next to our 80" christmas tree (no they haven't been painted yet): Can anyone guess what they are? :D

[ejp]

Ahhh, Big ones????

[Doubledog]

Thats TALL! First guess will be a Stinger missle, second is a Patriot.
Visited that website you linked. That stuff has changed since the last time I did it. There was one of an F14 that looked real cool. Do they have them set-up for r/c so you can glide back down without having to use the 'chute? That'd be off the hook.

[scorpien boats]

sometimes I play around with estes rockets but not recently

[Chris LaPanse]

Some of them do have RC gliders (if you check the pics, there are some of a RC glider). That F-14 was a PMC (plastic model conversion) done by Bruce, the club's treasurer. Here (http://www.crashonline.org/pictures/040717/img_1068.jpg) is a pic of the RC plane going up, and here (http://www.crashonline.org/pictures/040717/img_1083.jpg) it is while gliding. The pilot has won several national RC rocket glider competitions with it. Those rockets (I guess no one here does mid-power rocketry) are Aerotech (http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/) rockets. The short one is the Initiator, and the big one is the Mirage. They are now primed (but not painted), and are scheduled to have their first flight (weather dependent) on January 9th or 22nd When I get them painted, I'll post some more pics, and when they fly, i'll also post some pics. The Initiator has an F40-7W waiting for it for the first flight, and the Mirage should start off on an F52-5T. If it goes well, I've also got a G64-4W for the mirage. (for those of you who don't know what all that means, basically, it's a LOT of power.

[Doubledog]

Can I be your friend? You seem to have all the cool toys. :D

[sphinks36]

I build scratch rockets all the time. It's a little harder than most people think. I actually won my state science fair with a project on rocket aerodynamics

[Chris LaPanse]

Really? Just estes, or do you do mid-power too? Estes isn't that hard (depending on how much detail you want them to have), but mid power need to be pretty strong. I'm going to Lowes tonight to pick up the paint (I had primer but no paint) and I'm painting them tomorrow. Once their all painted and decaled (probably in a couple of days) I'll post another pic.

[Chris LaPanse]

EDIT- they'll fly on the 2nd if the weather holds (nice)

[sphinks36]

I build them scratch, hence with-out a kit. Most of them are pretty small just because it's cheeper :)

[Chris LaPanse]

Yes, I know, I do that a lot too, but I was wondering whether they flew on Estes (1/4A-E black powder) motors, or mid power (D-G Ammonium Perchlorate) motors. The'yre painted now, and as soon as I decal them, I'll post some pics (probably by tomorrow).

[Chris LaPanse]

Well, the Initiator flew today, but my dad didn't take any photos - just video. He did take photos of my other rocket that I flew. Also, here's a pic of them painted (sorry about the quality)

[Chris LaPanse]

And here I am getting the Initiator ready for flight. It flew well on an F40-7W and an F52-8T. On the F40 flight, it had about an 18-20" flame and thick white smoke! It was very loud both times.

[Chris LaPanse]

And here it is after recovery

[Chris LaPanse]

And here is a different rocket I flew today

[Doubledog]

WOO HOO! Looking good!

[Chris LaPanse]

Yep. It (and possibly the Mirage) are going up again at the next club launch on a week from this Sat. (i'm too lazy to look at what that date is). When it flies again, I'll get some pics.


EDIT - that will be the 15th if the weather is good.

[Chris LaPanse]

The mirage flew today - great flight on a G64-4W (big motor) to around 1200-1300 feet. Will post pics of the launch as soon as I transfer them to the computer :D :D .

[Chris LaPanse]

OK, here come the pics. First, on the pad:

[Chris LaPanse]

Ignition!

[Chris LaPanse]

Liftoff

[Chris LaPanse]

Climbing:

[Chris LaPanse]

Higher:

[Chris LaPanse]

Last shot of the mirage:

[Chris LaPanse]

I'm not even sure why this one flies:

[Chris LaPanse]

Another:

[Chris LaPanse]

If anyone wants any more pics of todays launch, please tell me, but that's all I'm posting for now.

[Doubledog]

Whats that last one? Looks like a motor with two cd's strapped to it? Good photo work on them for sure.

[Chris LaPanse]

That's what the last two are - a spool rocket made by gluing a CD to either side of a bit of tubing. Stick a motor in it, and you have a cheap and easy rocket.

[Water Man]

Wow !
This is nice Chris !
You are really in to this !
This look like it is a lot of fun!
Thank 's for chairing ..

I like the Ignition & lift off Pic..
Timing was good.
I am happy for you..

[Chris LaPanse]

OK, well I went to the biggest launch I've ever been to this weekend at Northern Colorado Rocketry (http://www.ncrocketry.org), and got some great pics of the launches. I'll start out with my Arreaux. It went 3150 feet at 530mph on a G64 motor. It is the highest and fastest launch I've ever done.

[Chris LaPanse]

Next, here is my Level One Certification rocket on the pad (anyone recognize what rocket this is a scale model of?). It weighs 4lbs and flew 1500 feet on a H123 motor. I am now certified level one (so I can fly H and I motors). The guy next to me in the tye dye shirt was the NAR member who signed off on my certification (and inspeted my rocket and everything I did about every 30 seconds)

note - enthusiastic little kids are useful when finding and retrieving your rocket ;)

[Chris LaPanse]

And here it is taking off on about 30-35lbs of thrust:

[Chris LaPanse]

And here it is coming down safely on its 48" chute:

[Chris LaPanse]

Here is someone's Level 3 certification rocket on its M2200 Skidmark motor. It was unsuccessful beause the parachute did not open all the way, and it broke on landing. Those skidmark motors are amazing - they leave thousand foot spark trails in the sky, and they shake you because they are so loud. I've even seen a video of one setting off a car alarm :D

[Chris LaPanse]

Here is someone's rocket on a J420 redline motor

[Chris LaPanse]

And here's another level 3 attempt on one of the oh-so-subtle M2200 skidmarks

[Chris LaPanse]

And last (but certainly not least), the group shot - everyone with their rockets.

[Doubledog]

GOOD LORD THOSE THINGS ARE HUGE !

Awesome SKIDMARK motors :D Very interesting. If they open up another section to chat, maybe you can show a build up of one.

[Chris LaPanse]

Here's a couple more pics for you guys. First, my collection of rokets. My parents think I have too many, but I tell them that (like rc boats) you can never have enough. What do you guys think :D

[Chris LaPanse]

Here's a close up of one of my favorites (yes, it really flies :D)

[Chris LaPanse]

Here are some more of one of those skidmark rockets (the one that crashed :( )

[Chris LaPanse]

And liftoff:

[Chris LaPanse]

Climbing:

[Chris LaPanse]

Higher (the shot after this one is in post #35):

[Micho523]

Got any numbers on that rocket?? It looks HUGE!! :eek: Don't you have to get FAA clearance to fly those big ones?

[Chris LaPanse]

Here it is at peak altitude

[Chris LaPanse]

See anything wrong?

[Chris LaPanse]

Heads up!!!

[Chris LaPanse]

Ouch :eek:

[Chris LaPanse]

This does NOT make a rocketeer happy:

[Chris LaPanse]

The walk of shame:

[Chris LaPanse]

As for numbers, yes, it is huge. It was about 17 feet tall, and weighed about 60lbs. It flew on an Animal Motor Works (http://www.animalmotorworks.com/) M2200 skidmark (http://www.tripoli.org/tmt/new_motors/AW%20M2200SM.pdf) (4.45 newtons = 1lb of thrust). It was supposed to go about 5000 feet at 475mph. You need an FAA waiver for any rocket with more than 125g of propellant or weighing more than 1500g (3.3lbs). You need to notify the FAA on any rocket with more than 62.5g of propellant or weighing more than 1lb. We (the club) had an FAA waiver to 20000 feet. (and just in case you're wondering, that was NOT my rocket)

[Doubledog]

What can you say? 17ft tall & 60 lbs. Dang. Almost equal to what? A Patriot or something ?

[Chris LaPanse]

Similar size, but nowhere near the weight. That is the size where if a small airplane was violating our FAA waiver, the airplane would loose. BTW - DD, you wanted to see a buildup of one of these rockets? If so, I have the build pics from my level one certification rocket (come on, surely someone can guess what my rocket (http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55508&stc=1) is. It is a scale model of a real missile)

[Doubledog]

Nice shot in the last pic.

Okay, okay, I'm bittin' again....
AmRaam,
Sparrow,
Stinger,
SCUD :D
(I know its not a Mavrik as I used to be associated with those)

In all honesty, I believe its a Navy missle of sorts. Just not that familiar with them.



.
For the build, yes, start a new thread or post in big bold letters in this thread the start of the project. Kool to see & thanks for taking time to share.

[Chris LaPanse]

It's an AMRAAM (air force, but might also be used by the navy) 3 inch diameter scale model. The name stands for Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile. I'll start a new thread on the build/flight of my level one certification rocket.

[R/cpb]

hey chris, just curious if you could tell me where to find a list of rocket clubs? I would love to find a club close to me and just go and watch the guys launch there rockets.

[Chris LaPanse]

Sure. Here are the lists:
Tripoli Clubs: http://www.tripoli.org/prefecture/us.shtml
NAR Clubs: http://nar.org/NARseclist.asp
It looks like in Pennsylvania, the largest clubs are 4th gap rocketeers, NAR section 584, 300 acres and 7000 foot AGL waiver, website http://4thgap.com/, and Tripoli Pittsburgh, 5000 foot AGL waiver, up to J motors, and a combination of certified and EX (experimental launch - EVERYTHING is homemade, including the rocket motor). That makes me jealous - we don't have any EX launches in our area. Their website is http://www.rimworld.com/aaaaa/index.html . Good luck

[kobkobico]

WHOA! Those were some really amazing rockets! Ive gotta get some of those! :D

[Chris LaPanse]

Open your wallet :D

[cudacharger]

My 1/10 scale X-15 Rocket project....

Full size Cad Drawings to start:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/cudacharger/x15plans001.jpg

[Chris LaPanse]

What motor will be in it?

[cudacharger]

What motor will be in it?

Here are some of the Details of the build:

Scale: 1/10
Length: 49 inches
Wing Span: 21.964 inches
Weight: 44 Ounces prepped to fly
"F" power Alt = 640 feet @ 130 mph (no air start)
"G" power Alt = 1,550 feet @ 200 mph (no air start)
Two air start motors (18mm or maybe 24mm motor size) (G-switch or micro switch activated).
Fuselage Material: Vacuum formed  - graphite, kevlar, fiberglass, and epoxy.
Wings, horizontal stabs and vertical stabs vacuumed formed - graphite, kevlar, fiberglass, balsa skin over foam cores with graphite end grain balsa thru the wall plug-in spars.
Detailed Cockpit with waist up (bust) pilot (astronaut), Clear canopy windows, detailed upper instrument panel, eject seat.
Adjustable nose weight.
Plug-in wings and stabs (replaceable if damaged) (thru the wall attachment).
TAC-1 parachute, kevlar chute protector, kevlar shock cord and stainless steel connectors.
Baffled ejection (protects chute from eject charge flames).
One access hatch between main wings with optional electronic and altimeter bay.
Aeropoxy glue on all joints and fillets (the best)!
3/8 launch lug with optional rail buttons.
Slim line recessed motor retainer on main central 29mm motor mount. The motors will be recessed 2.5" from the bottom of the rocket simulating a nozzle (ceramic high temp epoxy nozzle).
Painted and dry transfer decals.
Clear coat UV protected epoxy paint (black with slight blue-purple hue).

[Chris LaPanse]

How are you getting 1500 feet on a G motor? I have a 32oz rocket that only gets 1184 (measured with barometric altimiter) on a G64, the largest motor you can buy without a cert. Also, are you sure it will be stable? The X-15's (and any other rocket plane) tends to need noseweight to fly straight. Are you a NAR or TRA member? Also, are you certified? I'm glad I finally found someone else on the boards who likes rocketry.

PS -is the MMT long enough to take the AT/Dr Rocket 29/360 case? Better yet, is there room for a 38?

[cudacharger]

How are you getting 1500 feet on a G motor? I have a 32oz rocket that only gets 1184 (measured with barometric altimiter) on a G64, the largest motor you can buy without a cert. Also, are you sure it will be stable? The X-15's (and any other rocket plane) tends to need noseweight to fly straight. Are you a NAR or TRA member? Also, are you certified? I'm glad I finally found someone else on the boards who likes rocketry.

PS -is the MMT long enough to take the AT/Dr Rocket 29/360 case? Better yet, is there room for a 38?


Chris-

You are correct about the stability of the X-15...I'm looking into getting my certification......This rocket has always been a favorite of mine. I have commissioned an expert to build the rocket for me (I have no time with my business and travels). The Individual that is building the rocket has a long record of experience in rocketry...and has built a x-15 Rocket Glider in the past. http://www.retroflight.com/XPROJECTS.html

When the rocket is complete in August...I will post the update and first launch. I have built several Low and mid power rockets before...but this one is much more of an experience build. Have a great 4th of July!

[Chris LaPanse]

Oh - it's him. He's on the other forum that I frequent - The Rocketry Forum (www.rocketryforum.com). He knows a lot about rocket gliders/airplane shaped rockets. I would suggest that you put in a single 38mm motor mount, rather than the planned 29 and pair of 24's. This would allow I motors as a possibility, and eliminates the complications of airstarts. And, whatever else you do, remember to post pics :D

[Sinbad]

[B]What happened did all of you rocket people blow urselves up? just all sudden post stopped 7-4-05. Anybody out there ?
Me , just new to hobby last 5 years or so. Lost my first real rocket, the initator. That puppy was awesome and flew hard and high, found the chute for a couple seconds right over head, looked down , looked up and it was gone. 20 family members, none of us could find it agian, theory caught a wind current.
Therefore have changed my wave length, fat and low vs skinny and high.
Let me hear from ya out there
Brian

[Saboteur]

HOLY COW! Don't these things get picked up on radar, because they are SO big?

[Sinbad]

Well, I do not know that much in reference to the actual picked up on radar.
I do believe that since no metal is used, that it does not get picked up on radar significantly. The majority that do go higher and need faa clearance, maybe they can tell us, I have not been told by the FAA,I have asked, that they saw any on radar. Mine only went 2000 feet thou.
Brian

[Sinbad]

Here are couple pics of some that I have been using.
The last one shows last years new addition, Tomahawk region D, Flew on G-80-4 went well.

[Sinbad]

Here,

[Chris LaPanse]

Very nice. No, I haven't blown myself up yet ;)

As for radar, no clue, although I would imagine the larger ones could get picked up (we do have the 20000 foot FAA waiver, and a rocket going up this spring that is 21' by 12" diameter and will go 13000 feet will probably be visible on radar).

Oh - and the initiator is a GREAT rocket. Have flown mine 28 times, on everything from an F37 to a G25, at altitudes from 600 to 2200 feet. Every flight has been successful. It is one of my favorite rockets.

Oh - and PLEASE tell me that the tomahawk has a 38mm MMT. It would be a shame to waste all that potential for bigger motors just because you only put a 29mm in there.

[Saboteur]

13,000feet? Awesome! :)

[Sinbad]

MAN 28times the initiator... holy cow, and I lost mine with a beautiful paint job first flight,lol. I did not know what to expect since I never been to a club launch or even seen any rockets launched at all at that time. That is what a club will do for ya!
Yes, I build all my rockets 29mm since all I can buy is G motors and at this time I do not see getting certified anytime soon. I find it enough hassle to just notify the faa when I want to fly these, let alone a true full faa allowance.
I just ordered my first easy access reload kits 2weeks ago so that I may try some different powders. G80 thunder is old. Gonna try the redline and G75J.
What new projects you working on? anybody chime in.
I got a couple of new projects working on now myself.
I actually just started looking for some clubs in my area, nothern Kentucky. We shall see how that goes.
later,Brian

[Sinbad]

Chris,
Sorry bout the quick post, but, I am wanting to get an altimeter. As I said I dont plan on flying to high, just looking around on internet at different ones. I am leaning towards the apogee one, and just curious if you have used it or one similiar that you like.
Thanks

[Chris LaPanse]

The Apogee alt is great if all you want is a small, lightweight alt to measure altitude. If you want to get a deployment-capable alt, the Missileworks RRC2X or the Transolve P6 are good first time alts, and the Perfectflite MAWD is another good choice.

There are only a few clubs in Kentucky from what I can find, THIS (http://www.bluesrocks.org/) is a HPR club, not sure about the waiver but can take at least up to I motors.
Also, if you're willing to drive into Ohio occasionally, Tripoli Mid Ohio (http://www.tripolimidohio.org/) can launch the REALLY big stuff - up to M's and above.

Latest projects?

PML small endeavour (3'6" by 2.6", 38mm MMT), and I'm designing my L2 rocket - a 4" diameter by 6'6" tall AMRAAM, made from solid carbon fiber. It will have a 75mm MMT (yes, 75mm), and be capable of up to 22000 feet (not without radio tracking though :D ).

Here are a couple of my latest pics (taken last saturday) of my AMRAAM-3.

Here it is on an H268 redline: http://www.rocketryforum.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=273871
http://www.rocketryforum.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=273873

And here it is on an I405 (AWESOME motor):

[Chris LaPanse]

Here is the 3d model I've made of that 4" carbon amraam that I was talking about:

[Sinbad]

That redline is awesome, The I speaks for itself, and loudly I'm sure.
I have read about that carbon fiber stuff, pretty neat you get to work with it. That sure is what seems to be a great place for lauches, not a tree in view,lol. Nice looking build on that rocket!
Few years ago I have the mean machine from estes, you know 6ft tall d motor classic.
Flew it several times, kinda like it. Last year I found another and made it just over 10feet long and put a e-9 in the backdoor. The only construction modified was I tried to epoxy the fins, I was trying to glass em,but, did not work out. Anyway, it was a very entertaining launch, wiggled and shaked as it got going and then the rest was a good run.
Suffered some acceleration crunch right above the fin area, pics will follow. This year I got a 3 foot section of phenolic,to cut out-replace the damaged area, to go for just over 13 feet and we shall see how it goes. I have a f23-7 econojet to do the job. Other than that, will be a slightly revised mean machine! Just short of crazy but, I thought it would be fun since the 10 footer was fun.

[Sinbad]

crush area

[Chris LaPanse]

ouch. My first mean machine has that too. Talking about Mean Machines, an F24 is great for them in large open areas (2200 feet). E9's are also fun. Are you sure the crunch at the bottom of your rocket happened on acceleration? My first mean machine had the same thing, and it happened when it landed too hard. I can't imagine an E9 having enough kick to make it crimp the body tube.

Oh - and yes, the I is loud :D
I don't think it can be described, you have to see it in person.

[Sinbad]

Bummer, I was hip to acceleration crush, could be the landing ofcourse, was in brush field thou. I may try to do this 13 footer in halves with 2 small chutes.
The other project im working on is my Minnie mag, Gonna double the length and try to get it to fly with the 75J relaod. Do you think I would need anymore finnage,or the stock fins would be good by themselves since I do not want to add anymore weight other than tube.
What has been your highest altitude ? mine was probably the 1500-2000 with the lost maiden flight of my initiator, I got that Barracuda I know could go with the right motor,but, no place to go for that launch(checking those clubs), more importantly -recovery,lol

[Chris LaPanse]

Lengthening the rocket should increase it's stability - no problems there. My highest altitide so far is that AMRAAM flight on the I405 - it hit about 4200 feet at about 500mph. I've got a rocket that I'll fly soon though that's a 38mm minimum diameter, and capable of up to about 13000 feet. I'm going to start with a G67R for the first flight (3000 feet or so), and keep bumping up the power until I either loose it or run out of more powerful motors that fit. Of course I will put radio tracking in it for the flights.It's also my first supersonic-capable rocket. Should be fun to put it up on an I600 eventually (90 gees, 1380mph, 13500 feet) :D

[Sinbad]

Well, I found a rocket site. Rocketry forum, I am sure you are familiar with it.
I like it, all about rockets. Well good luck with your builds!

[Chris LaPanse]

Absolutely, if you're talking about www.rocketryforum.com

I am cjl there :D

[Sinbad]

Lol, yes I have seen your many posts. I had just found it right after your reply on this one.
See you there

[Sinbad]

That was my mach machine thread u been bantering on... Brian62 see u there!

[Chris LaPanse]

Ahh - I see :D

That explains a lot :D

As you can see, mach is a slightly controversial topic there :rolleyes: