What would it take to get you to race? [Archive]

Ron Olson

02-08-2005, 11:51 AM

I can understand that problem. The closest race site for me is/was the Fort Wayne, Indiana site and it's not even in my District. I'm in SW Michigan so I either have to hit the races on the other side of the State in the Detroit area or head west to IMPBA D-4 and race in the Chicago area. Six or so years ago we had 4 clubs that I knew of closer to me, Battle Creek, Lansing and Grand Rapids plus one here in the 'Zoo. The only one left and is barely surviving is the G.R. club but not holding any races.
I do find it unusual that they don't have a .21 class as that has always been the most popular class at every race that I've been to. In some parts of the country there seems to be some classes more popular than in other parts.

Chris LaPanse

02-09-2005, 12:37 AM

I don't race mostly because my boats would not be competive in their classes, as well as the fact that I just don't want to risk crashing my boat.

guver

02-09-2005, 12:41 AM

I would need a beginners class for electric rtr. haha

I live a couple of miles from the nc pond hoppers, and wow.... I could go and watch, but the cost is too much, besides all the membership and rules.

I guess the answer to your q would be a low cost class cuz of budget, the intimidation factor.

In my case time and distance or not a problem, worried about crashing my boat? not hardly.....

hope this helps us both. As a matter of fact I am getting rid of boats because I have no where to run them. The local metro parks have a ban on all rc and the river... well lets just say sooner or later I am gonna go swimming or lose my boat ...

Ron Olson

02-09-2005, 01:12 AM

I've met a few of the Pond Hoppers. I thought that they were crazy online but they're really wild in person. I had a blast with them!
They do run some high-dollar boats and are mostly Gas boat racers although a few of them are sneaking back into nitro. Their pond is on private property which helps a lot for them too.
We've been really discussing this subject pretty hot and heavy on another site but there just isn't quite the group of people that we need input from, this is why I brought it up over here.
The costs are getting to be a problem for everyone. $2.00 a gallon for my gas-guzzler to travel, motel expenses if it is a distant race, food, entry fees, $70.00 a year for an IMPBA membership for myself and my son, it all adds up.
The aim is to get someone who has never raced before to try it out, even if just once to see how your boat stacks up against other beginning boaters. The racers in general are a great bunch of people to hang out with, many willing to lend a hand, parts or tools to anyone.

sharky620ti

02-09-2005, 04:12 AM

well as far as i know, in my area there is only 1 boat club, and thats in an old peoples home and is scale only (no fast boats) and i have NEVER seen anyone else with any kind of boat at all in my town.

so i'm on my own.

Doubledog

02-09-2005, 05:48 AM

Got to chat a little.

I don't like racing.
I'd rather go see an organized event (like they have here) and get a few chances to run in the day. Not much stress & laid back in the pits. They put as many as 10+ boats on the water at one time for 30-45 minute sessions. Depends how many are in that "group" thats called out for that time. Could be a small handful to the 10+. Circle track in clock-wise direction. Intimidating? Oh yes. Some guys coming out with $4,000 rigs just for show & a little spray. While some running the thimble sized Geko's (13" long electro's) right out there with them. Its run it if you've got it.

Thats my fun.

Back in the day it was distance.

Closest race was 2 hours away (not far by todays standards, but as a 16 yr old it was far).

Expense for racing was not bad. If you're in this hobby, its good to have spares of everything. In other words, theres enough on the shelves to build at least two boats. Just need the hulls.

I won my first race because everyone else was a DNF. :D But heck, I won & it was only putt putt'ing around the course due to fear & staying out of everyones way. Second round, I lost big time. As time goes on, you get braver & push harder. Next thing you know, you're swapping sugar with someone & loving it.

Full speed to today: If there was a race within that distance, I'd consider it again to get time on the water with others.

Icman69

02-09-2005, 06:06 AM

The biggest issue for me is location, in order for me to go to the club I have to travel 50 miles to the south side of Atlanta. I happen to have a large boat at a marina at our local large lake the other way. It is more convient to me to go to the lake and just go out to a cove and play. I am not really into the racing I like jumping wakes, and just hot rodding the boats around. :D

R1DER

02-09-2005, 06:32 AM

I think one good thing would be a good prize, if you get some decent sponsorship so you can advertize and set up a good prize then people would build boats that suit the class and would travel a little further too...

I know it's not as easy as that but imagine you saw an advert that said $20 entry fee and the prize was a $200 boat kit or Hobby Store Voucher or just plain ol'cash.

I'd do the mileage and build the boat if someone dangled that carrot infront of me...

$20 entry and you stand to win $180 profit or prize out of a 10 boat race...

Only new here and to RC boating so I don't know the race structure, would you have a 10 boat race ?

Doubledog

02-09-2005, 06:45 AM

Normal conditions are a 6 boat race.
What I was talking about was sport running for a large gathering, not racing so its very laid back & no competition to be the first into turn one.

At a lot of the larger events, they have raffles. Some big $ stuff be tossed up. Usually the big names & a lot of the smaller guys will toss in items for charity to raise money for the club etc..

The smaller local (Lo'cal) :D events such as your normal everyday weekend races, the structure can be setup from anything to NASCAR style points where theres a high points champion at the end of the year. (dang, forgot what it is now)... HELP.

You're $20 is going towards keeping the site & small trophies. Can't say as I've ever heard of a club getting rich off memberships & entry fees. Most all the money is put back into the club.

So naturally the weekend races at the local lake is not going to have much in the way of handouts, but more like the satisfaction of beating your buds. Its those big ones that draw the most attention. .

Hope that helps but keep in mind my racing days are long over. Tell me my shooting is fairly accurate.

R1DER

02-09-2005, 06:49 AM

How about some sort of technical course work, not based on speed but accuracy ?

You could set out a course with marker buoys or something...

Are we on the same bus yet ? is this the sort of thing you are after ?

Doubledog

02-09-2005, 06:55 AM

They have those at the scale events. One word : BORING :( (at least for speed freaks like myself). It was interesting for the first 20 minutes. :o

Yeah, based off of manuevering between bouys (sp), backing in, etc. all the while being timed. The whole time I sat there with my Geko in the back pack hoping for open water to be called. When it finally was, these guys couldn't get enough of the little 'Lizard'. :cool:

ps,
*for political corrective purposes*
Each person has their own cup of tea, I'm not hatin' anybody, just sharing my opinion. :D

BoatDoc

02-09-2005, 07:16 AM

i know ron mentioned an RTR class that might possibly be created...but that's not for people like me. i have one of those RTR's, but i doubt i'd be allowed to race it in that class, it's just too modded out. i'm thinking there needs to be something for the low-buck guy who's new to racing but not new to boats. i like the 3.5cc boats, but i can't compete with guys who have been racing for a gazillion years. i can imagine throwing my prather lap cat into a race with a stock K&B .21 against a bunch of guys with rossi's and hyperformance outdrives. i'd be on turn 1 when they were finishing!

Doubledog

02-09-2005, 07:48 AM

i like the 3.5cc boats, but i can't compete with guys who have been racing for a gazillion years. i can imagine throwing my prather lap cat into a race with a stock K&B .21 against a bunch of guys with rossi's and hyperformance outdrives. i'd be on turn 1 when they were finishing!

Doc, Doc, Doc.
Just keep your fingers crossed & pray for DNF's for the other guys. :D

btw, for those that run by themselves & have done so for a while. You think your boat is fast. THEN you go to a race & see rigs just like your's HAULING MAIL & you think < How the #$#%^#$ > ... ? can that thing run so fast. :eek: :eek: :eek:

BoatDoc

02-09-2005, 07:56 AM

i like the idea that the FE guys have with LSH. you need a certain sized hull with a 700 motor and 12 cells (i think its 12). it keeps everyone limited to a certain power range and it comes down to set up and driving...not all out power. even in sport 40 and sport 20 hydro's you have a lot of variance in power from boat to boat. is a guy with an OS .21 going to be able to compete with the guy running a MAC? something tells me he'll get dusted.

CFRACR

02-09-2005, 07:58 AM

Most comments mentioned here are so true. There are many factors to consider when thinking about racing.

If money is a concern, then best to not race. It takes lots to be competitive & stay in the game. If your on a tight budget it would be very hard to keep your boat in top condition & spend the money on the high end stuff.

Another is the smaller races, ya lots of fun if your willing to travel. No prize, just satsisfaction & a trophy. If you attend all of them & do well then your points could get you a season win.

Then you have, " my boat may get damaged," well yep it sure can!!! Again goes to the money issue, if you can't afford to replace then better to not put yourself in that situation.

It is a expensive hobby as all gas models are. When you get into racing it cost lots more. (if you want to be competitive)

I have a lake where they run district races @ 2 miles from where I live. They have not run them there in the last year, but have had them there every year for the past 15 years or so from what I have heard. There are races every month in my State, some are within a 2 hour drive, & a few further. I would be willing to drive 2hrs, but not more. So attending the "local" ones is my bag.

I think that a boat club that held races on a regular basis @ the same pond would do better. Different format I used to race @ a club back in the early 90's that did so. Had races every other weekend for three months. You could win a trophy & stuff that day (sponsored by LHS'S) Then after the season (three months) the season winners would get with other season winners @ 1 big race for district Champs!! That way you would only have to travel once every four months. Worked out very well I think, based on the race attendence & the fact that the LHS sponsored. The LHS donated stuff to win & in return were patroned by the racers to keep their suppplies up & their rigs tip top.

CFRACR

02-09-2005, 08:04 AM

Doc, Doc, Doc.
Just keep your fingers crossed & pray for DNF's for the other guys. :D

btw, for those that run by themselves & have done so for a while. You think your boat is fast. THEN you go to a race & see rigs just like your's HAULING MAIL & you think < How the #$#%^#$ > ... ? can that thing run so fast. :eek: :eek: :eek:

EXACTLY!!!!!!

Guys that run by themselves have not a clue unless they have been to a event & seen the real deal. I often hear from someone that has a RTR that runs alone & is thinking their rig is super fast. They come to the pond one weekend to show off their "Super Fast Boat" & it ends up staying in the car for they don't want to bring it out anymore. :o

BoatDoc

02-09-2005, 08:18 AM

R1DER

02-09-2005, 08:20 AM

CFRACR

02-09-2005, 08:31 AM

i wan't trying to say that my NH is ultra fast...but it most likely wouldn't be allowed to compete in an RTR race because the only original part is the hull. most .12's could probably outrun it anyway...and it definitely couldn't compete against a .21. my prather vee is a good fast sport boat...but not competitive for racing being an O/B. my lap cat is outdated. i'm building a couple of FE's that will be race orientated hulls. but to race them i have to drive about 4 hours. one will be a SAW boat and the other will be for ovals.

Oh yeah, right there with you. Same here, the only thing stock on my NH is also the hull. I have much faster boats but still like my NH. Its a fun little boat & gives me no trouble. I bring it to the lake most of the time just in case someone shows with another, or something close. That way we can run together & not get passed like turtles.

BoatDoc

02-09-2005, 08:36 AM

you could probably find pic's of my prather vee and my hammer if you ran a search on the forum. there should be pics of my climate outrigger in the electric forum. there are no pics of the new ones because i'm still getting the gear together to build them. next week i'll be ordering about $750 worth of gear to get these projects going. been saving the $$$ and using some of that tax return.

Doubledog

02-09-2005, 08:47 AM

Doc, we knew what you was saying. ;)

Like I've always said, when I hit the lotto, my wife has a good understanding that there's going to be at least a four acre lake purchased - built - or bombed out for us to run.

Privacy out in the country with no one around to BMC about the noise or destroying the environment.

Membership will be cheap

Insureance a must

If the weather turns to crap, we'll toss up the automatic awning (sp) & play all day. Yes, the four acre lake will have covering that can go up for the larger events. This is my dream so let me live it. :D

Bleachers

Parking for the camp trailers

Nice pits

Even another pond for other freqs to run their boats

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Can think of a hundred other things to add to it, but the main thing is have fun & leave your attitude at the entrance.

Doubledog

02-09-2005, 08:52 AM

One question:

How many people have something that is totally stock?

R1DER

02-09-2005, 08:54 AM

Me.

But I've only had it a month.....

Haven't even run it yet....

Doubledog

02-09-2005, 08:56 AM

What'cha got again?

Doubledog

02-09-2005, 09:00 AM

Back that. I remember now. You've got the Graupner 3- mota' rig.:)

MattHiggins

02-09-2005, 09:31 AM

This is a very interesting question. In my opinion, a "Production" class would be great for racing. For electric, the rules would be similar to N-1. Any ROAR stock motor and 6-cells, but the battery must be an unmatched stick pack. The rest of the boat must remain in the stock configuration, but any prop would be allowed. No lightening of the hull but it can be reinforced. Aftermarket turn fins and trim tabs would be allowed. For nitro, the stock engine must be used and all the same hull rules would apply. While this would certainly be a great class for beginners, it would be important to not downplay this class as a novice class and just something to play with until you get serious.

BoatDoc

02-09-2005, 12:03 PM

i'd like to see a "novice" 3.5 class. something like a prather vee hull with a K&B outboard. it's a good reliable set up and fun to drive. i started on that set up and i know there's a lot of others that have too. watcha think? btw...if i lived close enough to a club i would find a way to race.

Ron Olson

02-09-2005, 01:00 PM

I'm still waiting to see what the new ABS/RTR class rules are going to be once they're in the proposal stage. What I asked for is the OK to run tuned pipes, up to .18's, any radio system and metal only props. So far they want to stay with any prop, metal or plastic.
DD, you stole my dream!!!! Mine would also include landscaping and waterfalls, real restrooms and a concession stand, covered pit areas, maybe throwing in a flying field and an on and off-road tracks. If my wife hits the Lotto, you've got a job running my R/C Park. :)
Cash pay-out is illegal in the sanctioning bodies but prizes like boats and motors are OK.
Keep an eye out for a new 3.5 OB tunnel boat that should be coming out in May. Jerry Dunlap has been working with a company that will have one that should be RTR and it's sweet looking! The name of it is the Top Speed 2, completely different from the first Top Speed boat. His aim also is to get a low cost tunnel boat on the market that still would be competitive in regular class racing. Read the interview of him in the latest issue of RCBM, he hints at it there but couldn't say anything at the time.
For those that are worried about busting up their pride and joy, things happen, either when running alone or racing. If you get hit by some clown at a race trying to take you out, that person will be dealt with by the CD.

BoatDoc

02-09-2005, 07:23 PM

mjmsprt40

02-09-2005, 09:25 PM

I have a few reasons for not racing. The one boat I have presently operating isn't well represented in my area, meaning that most trips out my Gator is the only one anywhere near it's class. Just as well, since it's also indisputably the slowest boat in the club. Racing is expensive, especially if you're going to be serious about it, and I am not a wealthy man. Third, would you believe I'm just not all that competitive? Truth is, when I take my ships out I'm out to have a good time. Trying to get that last little bit out of an engine, then having it go balky on me because it's running on the fine edge is too much like work. Personally, I'm not out at the lake to make more work. But then, that's just me I guess.

Watercadet

02-10-2005, 02:00 AM

Doc, don't knock your Lap Cat/ K&B set up. I campaign my DPI 3.5 tunnel with a "stock" (hehe) K&B 3.5 SS.
As for what it took to get me to race? A good connection with an experienced racer, time to do so, a competitive boat (how a fully equiped .21 mono of new model, N/R modified by Rod Geraghty for $400? and my DPI set up for $125.) I have a Miss Bud that by now would run with the Spt. 20's and a .12 hydro that would get worked by the gas cats in the run what you brung class. That is it.
Adam

guver

02-10-2005, 02:30 AM

here's something that might spark some racing interest...this is kind of aimed at our super moderator :D what if RCBM was to put out an article explaining the finer points of racing...classes, types of races, etc. along with a list of districts or some of the bigger clubs that hold regular races??? getting into racing is intimidating for the newbie and this would be good info. i know for a fact that everytime i read race coverage i think that it's impossible to get into, and i bet i'm not the only one.

I like that idea, I would love to see rules probably none exist for my little rtr. It also seems I'm the esception to the norm as I would love to race (it must be in my blood) and am extremely competative . I thought everbody was..... I guess money would be an issue too as I have conmsidered car/truck racing as well but it is too much to get into competitively. I would need to start out cheap/small and work up.

CFRACR

02-10-2005, 06:03 AM

Some real good points here. :)

Let me ad this to the bowl of thought. The fastest boat usually never wins!

The fellow that has the fastest boat (so to speak) in your heat will usually either flip out, die out(blow a plug-to lean, ect.), or have trouble keeping it in the lane.

Sooooooo, that means if you have a "almost as fast" boat that is in good tune & running well, you will beat the "fastest boat." That is if you can drive & avoid the flipped ones!! :D

MattHiggins

02-10-2005, 07:35 AM

here's something that might spark some racing interest...this is kind of aimed at our super moderator :D what if RCBM was to put out an article explaining the finer points of racing...classes, types of races, etc. along with a list of districts or some of the bigger clubs that hold regular races??? getting into racing is intimidating for the newbie and this would be good info. i know for a fact that everytime i read race coverage i think that it's impossible to get into, and i bet i'm not the only one.
Jay Turner recently did a great article on racing in his "Fast Electrics" column, and he made sure to include a sidebar on classes for new racers. We also have another beginner-friendly racing article in the works; look for it in the August issue. We're also working on developing a list of clubs of all types and a calendar of events. We'll collect this info during 2005 and release it for 2006. Look for a mention of this in the June issue's "Final Moorings."

Icman69

02-10-2005, 06:45 PM

I have two Stock deep v's and a Orca recovery boat the V's are fast but not the fastest but enough to play with on the lake. I am more into the looks and lines of the boat with just enough speed:D

fast_hydro

02-20-2005, 04:31 PM

there are no boat clubs around hear (kentville nova scotia)

Hydro Junkie

02-21-2005, 02:47 AM

I've got THREE clubs for scale race boats in my area, but to be competitive, plan on spending SERIOUS GREEN. MAC, CMB and OPS are almost manditory to even have a shot at winning. My two K&B .67s(one disc, one drum) wouldn't stand a chance with that bunch. Come to think about it, I'm the only one that still has K&B's

alphaslider

02-25-2005, 04:47 AM

guver

02-25-2005, 10:15 AM

That's exactly the kind of "racing" I would like to start out doing. Just a couple of buds getting together and start modding their boats for running.

Ron Olson

02-25-2005, 10:47 AM

Alphaslider, you are right in the middle and right at one of the hotbeds of R/C boat racing in the country! If it's the place that I'm thinking of (SW of O'Hare) they hold several big events at that pond. One is the Summer Thunder race and the Ultimate 21 Shoot-out. The Illini Powerboaters are now racing at the pond at the Chicagoland Speedway. Check out www.impba4.com to find the races near you.
The Chicago are isn't known any more for electric boat racing since the lost the Lamb's Farm pond and Gas boats still haven't really caught on over there yet.

The IMPBA ABS class rules are being revised along with a bunch of other items in the rulebook, all in the interest of getting the first-time boat racer involved, even just once to get a feel of what there is. To me, the racing is just a small part of what we do there. A lot of great people willing to help out and a more relaxed atmosphere than what I found when racing 4-wheelers.
Serious R/C racing in any form isn't cheap but the new board of the IMPBA is trying to get the RTR boats a class where they can run. They know that getting these boats to the racesx wil inspire them to one day move up into the higher classes.

bufferoo

02-25-2005, 10:59 AM

I'd love to race but thew few times I have been part of a club it turned out to be a little unpleasant. I found many (not all) of the racers to be very judgmental about the equipment you use, the hulls you can afford and it seems that far too many people are concerned with how much they can pay someone to do or build something for them. It almost becomes a competition of paychecks rather than driving skills.

I met one fellow that was all about he paid one guy $1000 to build this hull and another guy $1000 to build his hardware and engine and another guy $1000 to put it all together and dial it in. They guy couldn't drive to save gis life and I never actually saw his boat hit the water. He just kept it on a stand on his pit table and gushed as everyone came by to gawk at it.

I'm not about the "bling-bling" and frankly I'm most unimpressed with what a person can pay someone to do. I love the hobby and there are so many great people in it...most of them can be found right here ( :D ) but all it takes (for me at least) is that one jerk to totally put me off of trying to run with anyone.

I have actually had one person berate and belittle me for just doing what I do with what I have. Questions like" why would you waste your time with that hull?" or "can't you come up with a better engine than that?" just put me right off.

I'm not going to run in this hooby soley off the VISA. If I don't have the cash then I don't get the parts and I simply will not put any of my family's need at risk just so I can haev the newest and greatest whatever.

Sorry for the rant. Needed to vent on this subject. ;)

Bufferoo

Doubledog

02-25-2005, 02:13 PM

That statement holds very true. People like that have no respect nor any care for the fellow man. I say we round them all up & toss 'em on an island.

BoatDoc

02-25-2005, 04:13 PM

that's like the guy i mentioned before...if you weren't a record holder with the latest and greatest gear he thought you were lower than bacteria! i went into his store when i first started to buy some stuff and ask a few questions and all i got was a bunch of crap from a guy who's too full of himself to deal with the low life's just entering the hobby. that's why i'm glad this forum is here, it reminds me that everyone isn't like him. :D

Ron Olson

02-26-2005, 01:25 AM

Bufferoo, I think that I've seen that guy! :D It takes a lot more than cubic dollars to win, place or show or a ton of bling-bling.
I've seen some boats that won trophies that you'd wonder if they could float, much less run. Some guys that I know could strap a motor on a brick and kick butt. Time and knowing your boat plus decent driving skills are big keys to winning at a race. Remember the old adage, "In order to finish first, you have to first finish". Some races are survival in bad water conditions so don't outdrive the boat or the water.

alphaslider

02-26-2005, 03:48 AM

Thanks Ron for the information. I will try to look into it. But we are not looking to form a club or join one yet, we just want to have fun running and compare notes. Besides a boat requires less maintence than a car. :) Bufferoo sorry about your experience with jerk r/c drivers, I will not call them racers since they miss the basic point of r/c, to have fun and enjoy the company of people with similar interests. But please dont laugh if we still run slower than the duck swimming next the boat. :)

n.h.schmidt

02-26-2005, 09:43 AM

Hi guys alphaslider We have quite a good bunch that run electric boats at Batavia Ill.
Not too far for you to get to. We also hold one large race there every summer. All electric ,no gas or nitro. We have about five fun runs there as the mood strikes us. We welcome everyone at all levels of skills. Are you interisted? n.h.schmidt

mjmsprt40

02-26-2005, 12:54 PM

My cousin and I recently started into the r/c boat hobby. He has a mod Turbo Vee RTR (I got it for him for his Bday) he changed the esc and motor to a 12T motor. I have a Hobbico Hammer EP mod with a 8T esc and waiting for a motor 15T or 17T double wind quad magnet motor to come in stock. We will be running in the Oak Forest area at the forest preserve with the twin ponds on 167 ST. as soon as the weather turns warmer and we get time to run. We would like to meet fellow r/c boaters electric or gas since there are no formal clubs that I know of around here.

Alpha, if you're running at 167th and Cicero, I think you'll be pleased to learn there's a club that meets there during the warm weather. The Marquette R/C Boat Club will be glad to have you and give you a hand on anything you need some advice/help on. I'm usually there many Sundays during the warmer months. Look for the guy running the Gator, that'll be me.

Welcome aboard.

alphaslider

02-27-2005, 02:40 PM

mjmsprt40 and n.h.schmidt thank you very for the invitations guys its great to know my cousin and I are not the only electric runners in the area. mjmsprt40 look forward to seeing you on the lake Sundays if weather and work permits. n.h.schmidt where do you guys run in Batavia? Just a rudementary address will do if its a forest preserve. My cousin and I may try and get up there for the fun runs if we have a day or two notice. My email is hung_steve@hotmail.com just leave quick message. Thanks a lot guys for everything.

blizard05

03-04-2005, 09:35 AM

spec class min hull size stock motor no mods pipe ok for gas nitro Tonny C WHH tried several yrs back too many cheats. too many ruels cha nges interest wayned and died Tonney gave up. would be nice to have factory and production class like APBA 1to1 off shore

Ron Olson

03-04-2005, 11:08 AM

Tony didn't start that but they did use his boats. They all had NASCAR themed paint jobs.
I don't like the idea of a Spec class per se as it only helps one manufacturer the majority of the time. I can't see a ProBoat Miss Bud class or a Nitro Hammer class for instance as here lies the same problem.
Manufacturers are coming out with boats that there is no class for so if you want to race it, you're outta luck until the IMPBA gets the ABS class rules changed. It is supposed to be in the latest issue of the Roostertail, now available online. http://impba.net

blizard05

03-04-2005, 11:25 AM

Tonny tried 5-6 yrs ago my idea anny hull mim size ie gas 47- 56 stock zen 26 no mods only pipe and prop

69dart

03-04-2005, 12:16 PM

so i bought a miss llumar hull in hopes to race it and i cant? i converted it to brushless or brushed, it can be whatever motor i want it to be. and i cant race it. i thought i would be able too in hydro class oh well ?

blizard05

03-04-2005, 12:49 PM

raced in 3 mile offshoe enduro drove from full sized boats through lage waves and wakes top speed was not a factor see RCBM November 1992

BoatDoc

03-04-2005, 04:28 PM

69dart--you should be able to race. electric goes by cell count. the problem with the nitro RTR's is that most of them are .15ci, and they don't fit into racing classes. but since you converted yours to electric you'll be alright.

butchg

03-06-2005, 10:29 AM

My son and I would love to race but can't find any club or place near us that race.. We live in Jamestown, NY which is south of Buffalo.. We have 48" med vee boats with 28cc mac's in them.. We are now getting ready to build AC Blastcat 40's with Zenoah 260PUM's in them..

Butch

blizard05

03-06-2005, 10:52 AM

butchg hook up wth Eddy offshor boat Batavia NY I am building cyclone G26 no mods WHH wet pipe bllantine drive (MISS DUFF BEER) hope to race if can find club Cape Cod area also have 57" V SHAZAM old G23 use on Cape Cod bay not fast but tons of fun big air time LarryB

blizard05

03-06-2005, 08:39 PM

blizard05

03-07-2005, 04:28 PM

AM cyclone out of box G26 WHH wet pipe ballantine drive

Ron Olson

03-08-2005, 12:40 AM

There is the new noise rule in effect starting this year. My interpretation of it is that any boat racing in the IMPBA has to have a muffler whether or not it already is under the dB limit. This has raised quite a ruckus by the members that are or have been legal before this came into effect. You can add a muffler to your tuned pipe if it isn't already a muffled pipe. The loophole around this is what constitutes a muffler? This was really tested when I worked at the '03 Internats. There was a twin 'rigger that had "mufflers" and I use that term very loosely as the noise in the pits was deafening!
Sorry, I got off track. Yes, there is a class for your boat. I'm not too familiar with the Gas class designations
BTW, you HAVE to post some shots of your boat. Rich Ballantine makes the sweetest hardware available. It's enough to make me want to buy a Gas boat just so I'd have something to hang his hardware on.

blizard05

03-08-2005, 09:37 AM

Ron am in touch wt (RAGGS) dist 11 NAMBA locate club have ben playing wt boats most of life 67 yrs tether dumas skdadl os19 home made wth SEA FURY 049 OB $9.95 in1954 have copy of ad from BOAT SPORT mag twin .15 was $16.95 spent much time raceing 1-1 OB class C unabout 25 hp jonson 1st gas RC 1994 48 V still running same G23 in 57 V I also have 2 sail boats nice quiet after noon no one %#xx*%# about noise am suprised at response to my post racers xxx sport boaters sim ? other site lots of stones thron at sport boaters verry neg response I cant send pics only have WEB TV set up when I get a real PC will do I would LOVE to race winning isn"t every thing just finnishing would make me HAPPY my finger is geting tired thanks for your suport Larry B Cape Cod MA

Fire Cat 69

03-12-2005, 10:42 AM

Ron Olson

03-12-2005, 11:17 AM

Do I have any contacts in G.R.! I sure do! The Grand Rapids Wave Runners is all but dead up there. There last race was back around 1998 at Riverside Park. What happened at that race was ugly so I won't go into it in here. You can't leagally run R/C boats inside of the City limits anymore. Some of us were in contact with the R/C car club up there that uses the old Dry Land Marina building off 28th St. on Sanford Road as there is a pond right off their property. The legalities they're still working on as the "lake" is supposedly owned by a local cement/gravel company.
I'm holding a Fun Run down here in Kalamazoo in late May, the exact date yet to be determined and a lot of the G.R. boaters come down to run. When I get the date, I'll post something in the Races and Events forum. I the meantime, I feel your pain Bro. I have to drive to the other side of the State to race, Indiana or Illinois.
PM or e-mail me and I can turn you on to some of the people that I know up in your neck of the woods or wait until the Fun Run to meet them.

mjmsprt40

03-12-2005, 05:45 PM

Oh, man and I thought I had it bad. Michigan, the "Land of Lakes" and you can't find a place to race boats! :eek:

OK, I run at 167th and Cicero in Oak Forest, IL which is a bit of a drive. I belong to the club there, though, so I run there.

Last I knew, there was a club called the "Minute Breakers" which ran at Lombard Lagoon, only a couple of miles from where I now live. I don't know if they're still there or if they've moved to the forest preserve near 83 and 64 in Elmhurst. That's a couple of miles the other way from me. So, apart from the water being too hard to run in at this time of year, I hazard a guess that my state has more lakes we can actually race in than Michigan does. Who ever woulda thunk it??? :rolleyes:

Ron Olson

03-13-2005, 01:11 AM

MJM, there used to be more clubs and sites in your area. Summer Thunder uses that pond also. The Illini Power Boaters moved their site from off Caton Farm Road to the pond outside of Chicagoland Speedway. I've raced at the Silver Springs Park over near Aurora but the club lost that site and closed up shortly afterwards.
Yeah, we have water all around here. I have 3 ponds that I can run at within 2 miles of my house and more that I'd love to get on if I could.
It's too bad that the city of Grand Rapids banned R/C boating but once you're outside of the city there are a few places that the boaters do run at. One is off Chicago Drive near a print shop. It's an "L" shaped pond, long but pretty narrow. I can't think of the name of the street that it actually sits on but for some reason I'm thinking that it has to be towards 44th Street.
Contact the employees at Hobby World on 28th and Clyde Park, they should still have the numbers of some of the boaters or check at Rider's.

piper_chuck

04-25-2005, 01:24 PM

Ron, you sure get around. My reasons for not racing are:
1) No local clubs. I think there's one about an hour and a half away, but that's too far for anything other than occasional visits.
2) No desire to invest thousands of $ on the latest and greatest engines, etc.

Count me as another advocating more stock classes. I got out of racing because I got tired of trying to compete against people who were willing to go out and spend huge sums of money hopping up their engines. I just wanted to keep it simple, economical, and have fun racing. Their idea of a race was to see who could spend more money. I longed for a stock K&B 3.5 outboard class, but couldn't convince anyone to follow.

Sometimes I actually got to torture them because my lowly little stock K&B 3.5 outboard on a kit built boat was pretty quick. Occasionally I'd out drive them, other times they'd have engine problems, and then there were the ones who could make the engine go, but couldn't figure out how to trim the boat right. Anyway, if I ever got back into racing I'd like to see a few stock classes, perhaps one hydro, one mono, and a tunnel. My vision is each of these classes would have either an approved engine list or a $ cap on the price of an engine. The whole purpose of these classes would be that they would help keep the prices down to attract people who can't, or don't want, to spend huge amounts of money. The rules would also do something I've seen in some of the entry combat contests. All entrants agree that if they win, any other entrant is permitted to buy their engine for a set $ amount. I think this does a great job of preventing someone from modifying what's supposed to be a stock engine.

I've begun putting out feelers to see if I could start a club in my area. So far, no interest except a concerned email from the president of my flying club asking what I'm doing, reminding me to not to make waves at the field and to not cause frequency problems. There's a good amount of water around, but there seems to be a lack of people interested in boats. I'll probably print up some fliers for the local hobby shops soon.

Chuck

Ron Olson

04-25-2005, 01:57 PM

Chuck, it sounds as though your flying club Prez is a jerk. It doesn't hurt a bit to have a little diversity and he wants to tell people what they can or can not do? We aren't on the same frequencies if the idiot didn't notice.
The cost, especially for beginners is high, this is why the IMPBA is looking for ways to get new blood in the hobby and a cost controlled type of class would be a great idea. The what is presently known as the ABS class is one route of doing that.
It sounds like the stock class of the 3.5 OB's is going down the drain, too many clubs don't have enough entries for both classes so they throw them in together.
Yeah, I get around, I'm a member on about every R/C boating forum site that I know of, I'm not stuck in just that other one. :)
Firecat, look in the Events section, we're holding the Fun Run again this year in Kalamazoo on May 28th, come on down! We've got others showing up from the G.R. area and Jim Irwin is coming up from Indiana.

piper_chuck

04-25-2005, 02:06 PM

Oops, I better fix this. The club president actually HAD to contact me because one of the club members was worried. The prez was fine with it, but did just want to touch base with me to be sure we coordinated, if a club ever did happen. There is a valid concern that someone could show up at a pond with a air only transmitter.

Ron Olson

04-25-2005, 02:17 PM

We wouldn't know. :D
There is a big concern over this as we do not allow airplane frequencies in the boats although some people that have done the transition have tried this. The biggest problem lies in the RTF backyard flyers as they also are on our channels. Why? I don't know. The flyers in my area get paranoid about any other R/C vehicle being anywhere near their flying space even though we aren't anywhere near their frequencies.

piper_chuck

04-25-2005, 02:20 PM

Ron, I'm signed up in a bunch of online fora too, although not as many as you. That "other one" is the place I spend most of my time, but I lurk in a bunch of others too.

If the IMPBA is trying to attract new members, I think they've got a long way to go. I looked at their web site last week trying to see if there were any clubs in my area. I just looked again to get information about the ABS class you mentioned. If it's there, I couldn't find it. I'm not mentioning this to ask where it is, I'm sure I'll find it later, but to point out that the IMPBA needs to work on how it delivers information to those it's hoping to attract.

The natural place to put such information is on the page linked to from "Getting Started" on the main page. Unfortunately, the getting started page is just a quick overview of the different kinds of power and hulls. There's not even a recommendation on good starting boats, links to additional resources, contacts, or whatever. I can't see how anyone could "get started" with the information they provide.

Ron Olson

04-25-2005, 02:31 PM

The ABS class is hard to find in the rulebook too unless you know where to look. The site is in the midst of a re-do so it may take a while for them to change things. Bill Zuber didn't waste any time in making changes and upgrades to areas of the IMPBA that really needed it and the ABS class was one of them at the top of his list.

piper_chuck

04-25-2005, 02:48 PM

Rulebook? You mean the one that can only be viewed by individual chapters? I'm too impatient to click on individual chapter links and the download entire book link is broken. Hopefully they'll fix it soon.

Ron Olson

04-26-2005, 12:07 AM

Briefly it says, motor limit of .165 cu. in., pull start only and mufflers, no tuned pipes. They'd like to get it changed to include most of the RTR boats now being made. I wanted to see an .18 limit and metal only props but Bill thought that the plastic stock ones may be okay.

piper_chuck

04-26-2005, 02:17 PM

Thanks Ron, I found it. That's actually smaller than I was hoping, but it does seem like a good class for beginners. I guess I wouldn't count as a beginner anyway.

zach54880

05-17-2005, 10:25 PM

No club near me, either.

Plus, I've got no interest in dealing with some moron who feels the need to get into a 'Mine's Bigger' contest. Blah.

More fun to talk smack about how your boat's gonna roost all over your friend's boat! :D

And that's what it's about for me. Fun. If it quits being fun, then the boats go on Ebay.

Zach

Ron Olson

05-18-2005, 01:02 AM

Zach, you'd be pleasantly surprised at the atmosphere at a boat race. I've met some fantastic people there over the years. Need a hand? You'd be surrounded in seconds with help, parts and wrenches. My toolbox is open and you'd be welcome to grab whatever you need to race even if you're racing against me. This goes for a lot of others too. Sure, you're bound to run into a bad apple in any bunch of anything but I can't say enough good about the people that I've raced with.
The smack talking ends at the end of 6 laps but I rarely hear it, my boat does the talking for me. To me, it's a good race if I can drive it back to shore at the end of the heat.
Sometimes the faster/fastest boat doesn't win. I've seen that more times than I could count. I've gotten a few of my trophies that way from others that pushed their boats over the edge of what the water conditions dictate. A smart driver lets the others make the mistakes.
My son got a 3rd place trophy at his first race out of 13 boats in the class. How? Not overdriving the boat and water, just finishing all of the heats with a bone stock K&B 3.5 OB tunnel against highly modded Nova Rossi and other brands of OB motors.

bobbyh

05-18-2005, 09:52 AM

Good Thread Ron!

I don't wander by this board much, but it was a great idea to ask the guys over here what it would take. If anyone is in the SC/GA area and would like to come out and see/participate in a race send me a message. We just had a small but really fun, laid back race in Savannah this past weekend.

Ron is right about the fast boats not winning. It's actually not common the fastest boat wins its class. I once won a 2 day race in 40 mono with 10-12 boats in the class and never won a heat! I had 4 2nd place finishes, most importantly I finished every heat.

Thanks for helping to get boaters together Ron!

-Bobby

Zach, you'd be pleasantly surprised at the atmosphere at a boat race. I've met some fantastic people there over the years. Need a hand? You'd be surrounded in seconds with help, parts and wrenches. My toolbox is open and you'd be welcome to grab whatever you need to race even if you're racing against me. This goes for a lot of others too. Sure, you're bound to run into a bad apple in any bunch of anything but I can't say enough good about the people that I've raced with.
The smack talking ends at the end of 6 laps but I rarely hear it, my boat does the talking for me. To me, it's a good race if I can drive it back to shore at the end of the heat.
Sometimes the faster/fastest boat doesn't win. I've seen that more times than I could count. I've gotten a few of my trophies that way from others that pushed their boats over the edge of what the water conditions dictate. A smart driver lets the others make the mistakes.
My son got a 3rd place trophy at his first race out of 13 boats in the class. How? Not overdriving the boat and water, just finishing all of the heats with a bone stock K&B 3.5 OB tunnel against highly modded Nova Rossi and other brands of OB motors.

bobbyh

05-18-2005, 10:10 AM

Chuck,
You don't need to spend all that money to keep up with the latest and greatest. We just started racing again this year after being out of racing for 10 years. We didn't buy any new equipment except radios. I'm running 12 year old boats and engines. Results: Spring Nationals 20 mono 4th place 60 mono 3rd place F mono 4th place / Spring Challenge 20 mono 2nd 60 mono 2nd F mono 1st. As soon as I can get my driving touch back I expect to start winning again with the old equipment. If you want to race all you need is a course, a stopwatch and take the time to find a good race setup, not a "fast looking" set up.

Good luck getting something going! I did the same thing here last year and was pleasantly surprised by the response. A couple guys are racing now.

Just my opinion based on what I've seen,
-Bobby

Ron, you sure get around. My reasons for not racing are:
1) No local clubs. I think there's one about an hour and a half away, but that's too far for anything other than occasional visits.
2) No desire to invest thousands of $ on the latest and greatest engines, etc.

Count me as another advocating more stock classes. I got out of racing because I got tired of trying to compete against people who were willing to go out and spend huge sums of money hopping up their engines. I just wanted to keep it simple, economical, and have fun racing. Their idea of a race was to see who could spend more money. I longed for a stock K&B 3.5 outboard class, but couldn't convince anyone to follow.

Sometimes I actually got to torture them because my lowly little stock K&B 3.5 outboard on a kit built boat was pretty quick. Occasionally I'd out drive them, other times they'd have engine problems, and then there were the ones who could make the engine go, but couldn't figure out how to trim the boat right. Anyway, if I ever got back into racing I'd like to see a few stock classes, perhaps one hydro, one mono, and a tunnel. My vision is each of these classes would have either an approved engine list or a $ cap on the price of an engine. The whole purpose of these classes would be that they would help keep the prices down to attract people who can't, or don't want, to spend huge amounts of money. The rules would also do something I've seen in some of the entry combat contests. All entrants agree that if they win, any other entrant is permitted to buy their engine for a set $ amount. I think this does a great job of preventing someone from modifying what's supposed to be a stock engine.

I've begun putting out feelers to see if I could start a club in my area. So far, no interest except a concerned email from the president of my flying club asking what I'm doing, reminding me to not to make waves at the field and to not cause frequency problems. There's a good amount of water around, but there seems to be a lack of people interested in boats. I'll probably print up some fliers for the local hobby shops soon.

Chuck

Ron Olson

05-18-2005, 10:37 AM

Bobbyh, this is one reason why I got out of racing trucks and buggies. I tired of trying to keep up with the "Hot Setup of the Week", spending 6 days prepping them and one day racing. It's surprising to see some vintage boats still able to take home the trophies. I've seen some that I'd be ashamed to toss in the water show me the way around the course!
If you want ot do something like getting some people together to run, throw some fliers in the LHS's and post something on the boating web sites. On the 28th of this month we are holding a Fun Run for the third year now. I have peole that are driving several hundred miles(!) for just a day of messing around. Last year Bob and Karen Kensill showed up, this year, Jim Irwin of Irwin's Pipes is making the long drive from Muncie, IN, another person from Indy and one from Kentucky! I've got a convoy coming down from Grand Rapids, MI and some from the east side of the state.
See the "Events" forum to see my thread.

zach54880

05-18-2005, 10:22 PM

I plan on trying racing in the near future, but I need more water time. I don't care if I win or lose, but I don't want to get in over my head and risk wrecking someone else's pride 'n joy. I don't care if I wreck mine, but someone else's makes me nervous.

If the blasted weather ever cooperates, I can start hitting the pond. Wading into 40 degree water to grab a boat really sucks. (Don't ask how I know.) ;)

piper_chuck

05-24-2005, 05:50 PM

Chuck,
You don't need to spend all that money to keep up with the latest and greatest. We just started racing again this year after being out of racing for 10 years. We didn't buy any new equipment except radios. I'm running 12 year old boats and engines. Results: Spring Nationals 20 mono 4th place 60 mono 3rd place F mono 4th place / Spring Challenge 20 mono 2nd 60 mono 2nd F mono 1st. As soon as I can get my driving touch back I expect to start winning again with the old equipment. If you want to race all you need is a course, a stopwatch and take the time to find a good race setup, not a "fast looking" set up.

Good luck getting something going! I did the same thing here last year and was pleasantly surprised by the response. A couple guys are racing now.

Just my opinion based on what I've seen,
-Bobby

Bobby, thanks. I took a road trip to the nearest club on Sunday. It's about a 2 hour drive. This is acceptable occasionally, but I can't get away that long on a regular basis. The good news is everyone was really friendly and it appears to be a very well organized and active club. They've got a good pond, a nice driving stand, and a busy schedule of club races. I'll definitely go back, but not as often as I'd like.

The boats are another story though. The only boats I saw were gas powered monos and cats, and 20 outriggers. I asked about outboards. It seems a few members may have some, but there's not much interest.

I've got one boat ready to run, a Steve Muck Spartan Streaker. It's only got an OPS 7.5 in it. I'd be able to run it in an open class, but I doubt it will be competitive. I'm trying to decide if it's worth bothering, or if I should install a larger nitro or perhaps go to a gas engine. I don't have the money to buy a completely new boat, hardware, and engine right now. I guess for now I'll take the simple and inexpensive route and just run it as is. I'm also going to finish the tunnel hull outboard I started building a long time ago and see if I can stir up some interest in running those. I've always thought they were a good beginning boat.

bobbyh

05-25-2005, 09:25 AM

Chuck,
Are you in NC? I know a guy in Charlotte that recently got back into boating and he's entered in the race in Walterboro, SC next month. Running a 40 mono would be tough against a field of gas boats. The speed wouldn't be as much a problem as the rough water.
We raced for years with the closest club two hours away. We are fortunate enough to have access to a private lake where we set up a measured course and can test whenever we want. We didn't club race a whole lot but we would go to 6-8 district races a year. I understand everyone running something different from you, I run nitro monos and everyone in Columbia runs 20 tunnels. Just have fun with what you have or like and don't get discouraged. It's tough running on an "island" but keep looking and you'll find someone near you to run with and it'll take off from there.

-Bobby

Bobby, thanks. I took a road trip to the nearest club on Sunday. It's about a 2 hour drive. This is acceptable occasionally, but I can't get away that long on a regular basis. The good news is everyone was really friendly and it appears to be a very well organized and active club. They've got a good pond, a nice driving stand, and a busy schedule of club races. I'll definitely go back, but not as often as I'd like.

The boats are another story though. The only boats I saw were gas powered monos and cats, and 20 outriggers. I asked about outboards. It seems a few members may have some, but there's not much interest.

I've got one boat ready to run, a Steve Muck Spartan Streaker. It's only got an OPS 7.5 in it. I'd be able to run it in an open class, but I doubt it will be competitive. I'm trying to decide if it's worth bothering, or if I should install a larger nitro or perhaps go to a gas engine. I don't have the money to buy a completely new boat, hardware, and engine right now. I guess for now I'll take the simple and inexpensive route and just run it as is. I'm also going to finish the tunnel hull outboard I started building a long time ago and see if I can stir up some interest in running those. I've always thought they were a good beginning boat.

piper_chuck

05-26-2005, 08:52 PM

Chuck,
Are you in NC? I know a guy in Charlotte that recently got back into boating and he's entered in the race in Walterboro, SC next month. Running a 40 mono would be tough against a field of gas boats. The speed wouldn't be as much a problem as the rough water.

Yup, I'm in NC, a little South of Chapel Hill (Home of UNC). I think you're right about trying to run against the gassers. However, the hull is actually close to the right size, it's 41" long. However, since the .40 is so much lighter than a gas engine, it bounces more. I'm toying with the idea of buying a new engine for it, perhaps an OS .81 VR-M. I think I can get one for a little more than $200.

We raced for years with the closest club two hours away. We are fortunate enough to have access to a private lake where we set up a measured course and can test whenever we want. We didn't club race a whole lot but we would go to 6-8 district races a year. I understand everyone running something different from you, I run nitro monos and everyone in Columbia runs 20 tunnels. Just have fun with what you have or like and don't get discouraged. It's tough running on an "island" but keep looking and you'll find someone near you to run with and it'll take off from there.

I'm working on something closer to home for practice. I get grief from my wife when I go to the flying field for 3 hours on a Sunday. I can't imagine how much hassle it will be if I try to get away for the entire day. The good news is I stopped by the LHS yesterday and found that there is some interest. I asked a couple guys who were there if they were interested in starting a club. Their response was there's nowhere to run. I think I've solved that problem, so I'm going to print up some fliers and get the shop owners to hang them up. I may also contact the club I visited to see if I can get some synergy with them. I wouldn't even mind if I could setup a pond near home as an alternate site for them. I just want a place to run and some people to race again. I have no aspirations of running a club.

TugsandTrains

09-03-2005, 09:19 PM

This question is aimed at new boaters or those that haven't raced or don't race. What would a club or sanctioning body have to do to get you to show up? Right now we are looking at the Nitro side but this could apply to Gas and electric boaters too. Also, why don't you race? The distance? The cost? Worried about crashing your boat? No present class for your boat? Your feedback could be very important.

Hello;

Thinking about how to answer that question, hmm. . . .
There does not appear to be a list of bullet-points that I can give you as to why I do not race.

What I can do is tell you what boats I do and am interested in.
After not having done r/c boats for about two decades, while doing trains, I am just now re-entering the hobby.

Have just gotten a Dumas Bluefish Submarine kit and also have a small scratchbuilt sidewheeler under construction.

Boats which are appealing to me are Submarines, Sternwheelers, Sidewheelers, Tugboats, and Towboats.

Maybe there is something in the nature of boats I like that answers that question?

Recently someone asked me the why not do racing question in person: I found myself giving the answer of "I like boats that do stuff".

Ok, that's all the words I've got about it.
Later.

Ron Olson

09-03-2005, 11:52 PM

T&T, I've been to scale boating events, The Scale Ship Modelers of North America used to hold the Great Lakes Scale Regatta less than 2 miles from my house in Comstock, Michigan. I met some really nice people there, the talent that it takes not only to build the boats and maneuver them around a course is amazing. to compare the conning evenr for the gas and fuel burners, imagine trying to run your boat around an oval course at full song while having your back to the water and someone telling you when and how much to turn it. Sure, they're doing it at much lower speeds but also at times going between buoys where there is just enough room to get the boat through.
Fun? Yes, they had a lot of fun. Fireboats squirting water at people who dared to get close to the water. Watching steam powered boats chugging along. Ferries with music coming out of them and other boats with sound effects. Competitions like any, be it nitro, gas, electric, sail or whatever your fancy is isn't just about the competition but making friends, learning and seeing other peoples pride and joys in action.
I don't restrict myself to just boats. I've spent a lot of time at airfields and the local car and truck tracks.
Some people just like to go out and run by themselves or with a few friends and I find nothing wrong with that either.

Mike T

09-24-2005, 10:11 PM

What would it take to make me race? Ahhhh... Six Bouys and a place to stand.

So many reason not to (above) - I say just do it.

I ran alone for a couple of years then went to the local race pond (it's actually 120 miles away) and they encouraged me to run in novice class. A sort of run what you brung. I won that first heat with a pretty, but totally inappropriate, Prather mono, and was hooked. That was six years ago. Now I've sold off the non-race boats and have 5 gas race boats. But I don't spend a ton of money. I buy the right hull (new or used) and a stock Zenoah and mod my own engines. Buy the right hardware that matters and make the rest. Make all the little bits and pieces to avoid going broke on shipping and waiting for the mail man (I hate to wait). Do my own props. Just add one boat a year. Stick with them and figure out what it takes to make them run and handle correctly. Avoid the hulls and engines that just won't work. Don't try to be different, watch what the winners are running and get one. Once a gas boat is good to go, it isn't going to cost much to keep up.

After all that, I help the new guys get going so they won't be frustrated the first couple of races.

Ron Olson

09-24-2005, 11:30 PM

You just answered why I'm looking more closely at going to Gas. It isn't about the price of fuel but I've been trying to build something different every year. Last winter was a toss-up. It was a sport 40 or a Gas mono or Cat. I'm now wishing that I had gone Gas as the Sport 40 has been a real challenge.

Mike T

09-25-2005, 08:01 PM

Ron we have several long-time nitro boaters in our club going to gas just because it's easier and they can have fun driving and socializing instead of getting engines to run right, and cleaning them up at the end of the day. This isn't about which is better - it's about a change of pace. John Finch, Preston Hall, and Don Ferrette have gassers now. John Bonanno is talking about it. Steve Speas used to run both, now he only has one boat - a gas cat - that he can run in 2 or 3 classes. Finch will have 4 gassers next season - 2 sport hydros, a crackerbox, and a mono. Another nitro guy has slipped a couple of gas crakerboxes into his routine. Things are heating up. Give it a try, you'll like it. The boats are closely matched and the cost isn't that bad when you consider the low maintenance. We went to an out-of-state race last month and had a blast. I ran 3 classes and finished 1st, 2nd, 2nd overall. Going home I realized I hadn't had to fix anything all weekend. Or even dump water out of a boat, or dry a radio box.

Mike T

09-26-2005, 03:11 PM

Another thought. I hear new guys ask why they should race if they can't win. I believe they can win if they make sure their boat is up to the job and then learn to drive. Neither is terribly expensive or difficult. If they want it to be easy, or if they want a situation where everybody stands an "equal" chance with "equally matched" equipment, that's just not in the cards. That's why it's called competition. But everyone has an opportunity to give it their best, and that's what they need to do. You have to do more than just show up. And that's why we keep coming back.

Ron Olson

09-27-2005, 12:53 PM

I really haven't gone to a race with a mindset that I'm going to win. If it happens, fine. You can use all of the adages if you want and most are true, like "In order to finish first, you have to first finish". I'm happy to be able to drive my boat back to shore at the end of a heat and not have to wait for the retrieve boat. Give me 2nd or 3rd place finishes and I'm ecstatic. Those add up during the day. A lot of the time the fastest boat doesn't win as they are too busy pushing the envelope and flip or die trying. Learn to read the water, feel the wind, watch the traffic and drive smart. Don't ask yourself or your boat to do more than it can handle. That is how you can take home a trophy at the end of the day. Watch and learn from your competiton, both their good and bad things. Enter enough races and you will be running against them again.

Mike T

09-27-2005, 06:34 PM

Very true. Another thing is to learn to hit the start, and start smart. Watch what the other guys do and tailor your starting strategy to take advantage of their actions. Have more than one trick in your bag.

zigzagracer

09-30-2005, 10:15 AM

I'll race when attitudes change.
I get around to the forums and don't see much in the way of commradary , mostly bashing and arguing. About the only time you see commradary is when a bunch get together to collectively bash another guy.
I'm not inclined to get up at 4 am to drive 4 hours to be confronted with the same group of individuals.

skipgall

09-30-2005, 12:54 PM

thank you zigzag. ECHO ECHO.

Mike T

10-01-2005, 01:07 PM

Maybe you need to find a different crowd to race with. The guys I race with are the best. Local races or the nats - I have never seen any bashing or arguing.

zigzagracer

10-01-2005, 04:17 PM

Local races or the nats - I have never seen any bashing or arguing.

The bashing and arguing is going on all the time on the forums. You can't deny that.
You participate on the forum with the very worst reputation for abusing members.

As for the racing with the best : physical violence and vandalized cars come to mind , you call them the best? Its your crowd I have trouble with.
Clean up your act.

Ron Olson

10-02-2005, 12:41 AM

You have to be in a different part of the country. Yes, I've seen some minor squabbles but nothing that came to violence. I've raced in 2 IMPBA districts, watched at another and was a Pit Boss, retrieve boat driver among other duties at the 2003 IMPBA Internat's.
There will always be a bad apple or two in any sport, hobby or even in your own neighborhood. The troublemakers can be dealt with by the race CD or if need be, the police.
One of the main reasons why I enjoy racing boats is because of the people. If I do have a problem and have, there have always been someone right there to help me out if I need it. The same with me, my toolboxes are always open if you need anything that I have to get you back on the water, even if you are racing against me.

zigzagracer

10-02-2005, 11:08 AM

Every time I talk about going to a race , this voice from behind me says you're going to spend the day with them? If you're going , you're going alone.
My better half reads some of the forums on occasion.The post above was her words , not mine.

blizard05

10-28-2005, 06:45 PM

A clas for indoor pool raceing for Winter,like ZIG ZAG racers

TRIKDYA

10-28-2005, 09:45 PM

if there was a drag boat class id be into that :D

zigzagracer

10-29-2005, 12:01 PM

A clas for indoor pool raceing for Winter,like ZIG ZAG racers

As funny as it sounds that is a great idea. Just have to find pools that are availible.

TRIKDYA , there was or still is a bunch of guys out there into drag boats.Not sure if they are still around.

Ron Olson

10-29-2005, 01:11 PM

You might like this then, www.rcdba.com .
In Alaska, they do have indoor school pool races in the winter. Using small, inexpensive boats they do run 4 and 6-cell boats using already made boats or their own designs

blizard05

10-29-2005, 01:46 PM

in the Boston MA area they have indoor sail boat races,using fans for wind power

doozie

11-04-2005, 01:10 AM

Would definately like to join a club or group to get into racing... I am on the western slope of Colorado and R/C Boats are pretty much greek over here, much less racing or having a club to join...I pretty much run my own creations. Hate "RTR" anything... My latest boat boat is a 31 Prather with a kyosho dolphin (modified) with a Jeti 30-3 brushless motor, BIG PROP, and 2-4200 11.1 V thunder power packs. I doubt Ill leave it in the truck on race day but you never know..Any help on clubs in this state or just modelers in this area would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

kingsnake93

11-15-2005, 10:20 AM

I would enter a race but I dony have a racing boat I just have 2 normsl boats.

Brad24

11-18-2005, 10:54 PM

Hey guys, get this (its not really racing but its still running your RC boats together!); a hobby shop down the street hosts a (mainly, but not ALL) gas boat meet EVERY sunday! This is a key factor in my decision to possibly by a nitro boat! Its so sweet, theyr there every sunday so you always have someone to run with.

mjmsprt40

11-20-2005, 12:31 PM

Good point. I run frequently, and the club I belong to is primarily a racing club. However, at our local pond they're mostly trying to get their boats to run well for the next race and that involves a good deal of "fun running" while they get their settings for "next weekend".

My boats are not race-ready. Even the ones that are racing designs have mild engines, so the idea of racing to win would be something of a joke. Well, at least unless the race turned out to be a "race of attrition" where the declared winner is the last boat still running.

Ron Olson

11-20-2005, 01:52 PM

The high price of racing is getting to be an issue with everyone as those that are on a budget can't afford to buy the latest, greatest piece of equipment out there. It's bad enough for Average Joe Racer to be competitive and now Andy Brown and Co. are coming out with a whole new line of race engines, the A/A's that every rich boy boat racer will have to have.
We need to cut things off somewhere pricewise or separate the people somewhere. Even with the Novice classes popping up, I could see some kids' rich daddy dropping one of those in Junior's boat whether or not he or she could handle it.
I've already seen where some parents wanted to start their young offspring with high-zoot Gas mono's and even 'riggers!
Controlling the cost is only going to be in the ABS or production boat classes.
There are some Gas boaters that are trying to get a low-dollar class up and going and calling it for now the "2x4" class. Home-built wood hulls and hardware, using a Gas engine that has a price of no more than $99.00 retail. They may not be fast but could be a lot of fun with a more even playing field.

zigzagracer

11-20-2005, 11:51 PM

No more than 99 retail and then 500 on mods. Just kidding.

Mike Jackson

02-24-2006, 11:15 PM

Racing sounds great ,for those of us that are on limited budgets and that are wanting try out racing this sounds like it may have some promise.I agree with the person up higher on the list classes would need to be made to keep things fair ,for us novice fellows with the slow boat keep pushing on the subject and comprimises can be made.Thanks Flameknee

Tim'sLosi

03-01-2006, 03:04 PM

I live in York PA and have no idea where to go to even run my boats other than in the river. I take them with when I go full-size boating. I would like to run in a pond but there are none I am aware of for nitro.

Racer Rob

07-16-2006, 11:35 AM

I hope to be able to start running with some guys. Just learned about the MMEU. Hope to meet up sometime with them, its about a 45 min drive for me.

Ron Olson

07-16-2006, 12:14 PM

They've got a good bunch of people in the MMEU club. Being a fuel-burner I had to attend one of the MI Cup events to see how they do it and talked to a lot of them while there. This was back when they raced behind the Lansing Mall, not at the new site in Milford.

Burkey1000

07-17-2006, 08:57 PM

racing at local club level wouldnt be a problem, but finding the time and money to fly or drive all over the usa for races would be a huge no no. I guess those with the bucks can do it but it does limit the competition, and just because most cant do it doesnt always mean they wouldnt win, or keep up with the rest. JM2P :)

BoatDoc

07-18-2006, 12:10 AM

i drive 4 hours round trip every sunday to meet up with the club that i run with. is it worth it? definitely. i learn more with every trip. we're holding a 3 day event this following weekend. guys are coming from all over the country to attend, which is amazing. next year, i'm picking one or two out of state races to attend, those will be my vacations. i'm not rolling in the cash, just love the hobby.

Burkey1000

07-20-2006, 01:17 PM

I love the hobby too and miss it more than i ever thought but looking to get back into it, but with a family etc being away most weekends isnt viable. Family first, hobby second. Not saying your not the same, but having moved here in november and only now getting my green card other things take priority. Mind you, if i could do it everyday i would. Maybe the wife needs a boat as well as me :) .

BoatDoc

07-20-2006, 08:16 PM

the main benifits of being single include: running boats whenever/where-ever i want, working on boats on the kitchen table, and blowing paychecks on boats. all of that will end one day, and i'll have to slim down the hobby a bit, but for now my boats get the number 1 spot! enjoying it while i can :D i should find a young lady who likes boats too, then she won't mind the kitchen table being covered in epoxy bottles and half built hulls. and i'll some one to pit for me.

Burkey1000

07-20-2006, 10:54 PM

:) I know where ya commin from, i was there once. Prepping the boats in the house, even lubing them while watching tv in the living room. AAAHHH those were the days. Wonder how long it will take me to pay off the divorce, just kidding. But yes ive been there, and i say make the most of it all ya can, and as they say back home, ya lucky bugger. :D

BoatDoc

07-20-2006, 11:22 PM

if i had the camera here i'd show proof...my kitchen table has on it at this moment, an outrigger and a half, a parts box, countless CA and epoxy tubes, a vice, a soldering iron, some balsa, some paint, some sandpaper, a few drive shafts, and misc. other items. i live in a 2 bedroom apt. by myself...guess what is filling up the extra bedroom??? 8 boats, along with the requisite number of tool boxes and shelves and other here's and there's! got a few more at my pop's house.

as far as "what would it take to get you to race"...a club filled with good people who are willing to help is number one on my list. i happen to now belong to a club like that. it just happens that i have to drive 107miles to get there. i'll be spending the next few days there for the annual race (The Sardine Classic). it should be an awesome event. several guys that you've probably heard about by reading RCBM will be there. this will be my first year attending the race. the core group of guys have put a lot of time and effort into turning it into a "national venue". folks are coming to WI from both coasts for this race. i'm psyched for it. i spent this afternoon repairing some of last weeks damage. and i'll be testing a boat tomorrow for the first time, with the intention to race it on saturday. talk about cutting it close :eek:

Ron Olson

07-20-2006, 11:49 PM

Boat Doc, it's too bad that you live so far away. I know of a lady NE of Detroit that has a nice collection of R/C boats and trucks plus a tricked-out Civic. Why some boater hasn't grabbed her up, I don't know and she isn't ugly either!
My wife did race for a while and my son still does. She got to where she had a good ear for tuning an engine and knew what prop she liked. It got hard for her to travel with us as we have dogs that can't be left alone unless we want the house destroyed when we get home.
My old dining room table is now in the basement piled with parts and an incomplete gas C-box. That doesn't count 2 workbenches, 2 sets of steel shelving and an 8-foot table but still don't have enough room!

BoatDoc

07-20-2006, 11:56 PM

well, ya know, Ron...the ferry ride from here to Mich. isn't that bad. if she's into FE send her my way :D my nitro days are over. i do have a civic though.... anywho, i'm surprised you haven't gotten into electric yourself. you should give it a shot, and join us at the Sardine Classic next year.

Ron Olson

07-21-2006, 12:49 AM

Yeah, the thought has crossed my mind. I've got a lot of people bugging me to get back into them again, I've still got a lot of battery packs and chargers so I'm set there. The new Aquacraft Super-Vee 27 is making me think about trying it again. I've got one (former) record holder that doesn't live too far away that I know would help me out if I need some, George Dalecki. If the name rings a bell for those of you that have read RCBM for a number of years, he won a hydro that was a cover boat and project for the magazine done up with a Tide paint job.
The problem also arises around here as there isn't much in the way of FE boat racing. The big one here is of course the Michigan Cup race but that's it unless I want to travel to the Chicago area or Wisconsin.
Yeah, she's getting rid of her nitro boats and just got a custom-built boat from Chris Fine but she also just got a new gas Shockwave, the latest version.

BoatDoc

07-21-2006, 01:00 AM

since you mentioned it...the super vee is (IMHO) the new ticket into FE. i've seen that puppy go, and it is awesome. i'll be buying one as soon as it's available. the MAFE club will be opening a "spec" class for them also. one of the guys who drove it is into N2 rigger's only and even he was impressed. no other production RTR FE boat can match it, in quality or speed (30+mph out of the box). it's the best and cheapest way to break into racing.

Rex R

12-03-2006, 06:24 PM

ok ron you asked. here is my reply. winning BIG in the lottery. no? consider the person who has an rtr boat & wants to get into fe racing;motor & esc $70, hull $70, running hardware $120, radio $100, battery packs $70,and charger $120 total $540 for an 'entry level' n1 boat... don't know if this is common but trying to find others to race against in this class is difficult. want to upgrade to a more common class well in 06 that would have run you about $400 more. in 07 it looks like that figure jumps to around $1000. I know racing is expensive but this minds me more of the formula 1 cars, than nascar let alone dirt trackers. grow the sport...right looks to me like they are growing themselves into oblivion. I doubt whether I'll still be trying in 08(07 prolly go through the motions(to little effect)) oh and the supervee will still run around $500 to race.

BoatDoc

12-03-2006, 11:24 PM

rex...remember, a lot of those costs are split over many boats. power supplies and chargers last over time. you've seen my setups. you and i are probably the lowest budget guys in the club. many bits of hardware can be switched between boats as you step up. 2nd hand gear isn't always bad either. you'll be racing with us for a long time. it's really just a matter of picking the right gear the first time. i know i've got a bunch of junk that i can't use anymore, and my lesson has been learned. classes like LSH, N-1mono, and LSO exist to keep the lower budget/lower experience guys in the action. they're fun as heck too. those three classes are set up games, not $$$ games.

Hydro Junkie

12-04-2006, 02:36 AM

Uh.............guys, having a significant other doesn't mean you have to stay in a basement or garage. The future Mrs Hydro Junkie doesn't have a problem with me building on the dining table, just so long as it gets cleared off in time to eat(when we actually use it to dine on). Right now, there are parts for two 1/8th scale hydroplanes and a building jig sitting on mine:D

Rex R

12-04-2006, 02:53 AM

am I grumpy about being stuck in the middle of nowhere(racewise) yes, about having just built a boat that is likely not fast enough to stay in the hunt next year yup. and when was the last time we ran n1/19t? if memory serves it was the 3rd week in july. mayhap things will not be so bleak next year as they appear now.

BoatDoc

12-04-2006, 11:10 PM

well, i've got 2 boats to run for 19t now. so i'll be sure to bring 'em for racing. i was sick of the one i had so that's why i stopped running it. i do enjoy racing in the limited power classes though, it leaves a lot up to driving and set up. and now that you've got your 19t tweaked out, you'll definitely be in the running.

Rex R

12-05-2006, 01:49 AM

now if I could just manage to get an answer to the question I posed over at the off shore board...* which equipment(hull) will work with the new tech(lipo cells)? bout the only thing I've found so far is that anything that requires a saddlepack is prolly not the best answer.
*atm what I getting there is mainly 'politics' and the 'reasoning'(which is all very nice... but doesn't tell me anything I can take to the store and say I want.)

BoatDoc

12-05-2006, 07:14 AM

lipo saddle packs will be just fine! if you run a 2s boat (6cell equivelent) you'll just have 1 lipo cell on either side. that's how i plan on setting up my 2s mono for next year.

Rex R

12-05-2006, 06:16 PM

so what do you think of the ovalmaster 26 for 2s racing?

BoatDoc

12-05-2006, 06:54 PM

rex...i've got 3 boats that i'm building for 2s next year. two of the hulls will be identical, i ordered two because they were custom cut, and they are "semi-experimental". if you want, and if the 2nd hull comes out nice i can pass it on to you, for a slight cost (material cost only, that's it). the third hull is glass, and it won't be leaving my possesion for under a gazillion dollars! seriously. it's a little on the rare side, and i was lucky to get it. unless of course you want to make sawdust of your own...then i can give you the details on the wooden hulls and you can build one yourself. i'm going to make a jig for the construction, and i'll let you use it if you want to go that route.

now THAT is what clubs are all about :wave:

Rex R

12-05-2006, 07:32 PM

heh heh think I know what 2 of them are... is the third('glass') a variation? or something else intirely?

BoatDoc

12-05-2006, 07:42 PM

that's right, i told you about them back in oct. didn't i? the glass one is something completely different. i should have it by the end of the week. i used the $$$ from a couple recent sales to fund this stuff, otherwise i doubt i would have been able to do it. my P-rigger found a new home in AZ, hopefully i'll get to see it in Feb at the race. i changed my mind about running 12 cell stuff, except for LSH, and maybe LSO. the 6 cell and LS boats are more my style.

oh yeah...back to the question at hand, "what would it take..." well, living in WI means COLD winters, so a warm race in the middle of winter in AZ is tempting enough for me!!!

Rex R

12-05-2006, 07:52 PM

ice boats? ice breakers(hey brushless can do anything...right :)) hovercraft? I think a pond size hot tub would do nicely(this time of year)

Ron Olson

12-07-2006, 02:18 AM

Mrs. Hydro Junkie. Hmm, it has a nice ring to it! :D
Really, dining room tables are for eating at? I only do when I'm here at my computer going through the forum sites as that's where I'm sitting right now!
Once the kid is out of the crib then the 'puter will go in his room.

Can we get back on track now? Look at the latest issue of the Roostertail on the IMPBA site to see what they're trying to do to get more people out and racing.

BoatDoc

12-07-2006, 07:30 AM

right now, the addition of new technology is making many people a little timid about jumping into FE racing. i'm a relative newcomer to FE, as in i've been driving them for only 2 or 3 years, and only started racing earlier this year. the new tech may cost more, so i'm finding ways to work that into my boat budget. by getting a wooden hull and building it, i can save money. i can't run the top gear, and i'd be fooling myself if i thought i could. for any of you that have seen what it takes to run a 6 cell rigger around the bouys in 65 seconds....you know what i'm talking about. instead of building a boat for every class (which a lot of guys try to do...and i've been tempted as well) i plan on focusing my attention on 2 or 3 competitive boats. anything else i build will be for the sheer joy of it. for a low budget guy like myself, i still plan on traveling to a few races. this year i went to CAFE and had a blast, even though i got my butt handed to me by the big shots. next year, i plan on going to the Winter Warmups in AZ (feb 2-4), CAFE, and Edina MN. my club was going to host the FE nat's this year, but we passed it to the the guys out west because of issues that i won't discuss here.

edmkills

12-19-2006, 04:08 PM

Hey Ron just a thought, have you considered posting the same question on the other RC forum sites. I found the thread very interesting and i have no doubt that others will as well.

Ron Olson

12-20-2006, 02:48 AM

Not really. I noticed that this site has a lot of non-racers and thought that it would be a good place to ask this question.
There's nothing wrong with just going out by yourself or with your family or friends for a day of play as I do that also.
Racing is an experience though and wonder why people haven't tried it if they hadn't. I realize that some race sites my be quite a drive as the closest site until recently was a good 120 miles away, now we have one 61 miles away (I checked on my odometer).
The high costs of travel now have hurt a lot of clubs or prospective racers, then you add in food, a Motel if needed, sanctioning body membership fees and entry fees and you can almost buy a cheap RTR boat.
I am lucky that I do live in an area that does have nitro and gas boat racing. Fast electric is almost non-existant with only one race witihin a reasonable distance from me.
Feel free to ask this on any other boating forum site, it's fine with me.

edmkills

12-20-2006, 11:35 AM

I definitely see the point about the cost and long commutes to race sites being a deterrent. Fortunately I have just moved to a city where there is a club and a race site about 20 minutes away but its sister club however is some 3 hours away.

Without promoting the sport and actively encouraging more sport boaters to give racing a try, clubs and race sites will only get further away. I myself have yet to give racing a try but likely will this summer. I think the best part of racing will not be the competitiveness but the comradery offered by those, like yourself, with similar interests.

BTW thanx again for the help Ron and exellent vid of the Williamette cup.