"To Novak, or not to Novak..." [Archive]

Dan-o

03-23-2005, 06:26 PM

"...That is the question."

so. I've heard a bunch this way and that about brushless, what's the general feel for other brands? My LHS recommended the Novak system, because it's sensored etc. but are there any other reasons for or against the Novak?
What variety and number of cells people run with these setups? Something other than 6 cell NiCd's?

Thanks
WES

ElectricThunder

03-23-2005, 06:31 PM

You can only run a max of 7 cells on the Super Sport ESC (nicd/nimh cells that is). If you somehow can get a hold of an HV maxx ESC, the SS5800 motor will take about 12 cells, that's its limit I think. It'd be probably just as good as any of these other systems on a decent cell count like 10 or so cells with the advantage of being sensored. However, that'd be a costly setup. You can get a good motor (feigao 7 or 8 turn short can) for 70 bucks at starluck rc and an MGM compro 80 amp ESC for 165. That's about the cost of the novak system, but can handle up to 12 cells and will blow it outta the water.:)

Dan-o

03-23-2005, 06:33 PM

does it matter that they're not sensored?

ElectricThunder

03-23-2005, 07:03 PM

Now a days, the sensorless technology has improved so that a bunch of controllers out there now have minimal or no cogging (used to be a problem, especially if you race, sensored setups don't have this because they have sensors to tell where the rotor is, etc.), so it doesn't really matter that they're sensorless now. With the exception of the aveox sensored motors, the sensorless motors blow the novak away, but you also have to consider that novak is somewhat starting out with all this brushless stuff. Give em time and I'm sure they'll make more powerful systems. Hope that helped a bit!:)

Dan-o

03-23-2005, 07:20 PM

I may go with the Novak, esp if I can find a used one, because I know the company well, and I trust their products. We'll see what happens.

TimisTim

03-23-2005, 07:55 PM

I would buy new or at least get one that would include a warranty.

ElectricThunder

03-23-2005, 08:03 PM

I would buy new or at least get one that would include a warranty.
I second that! I've had a novak for almost I wanna say a year now, and it's given me NO trouble at all, running in the hot south florida heat and what not. I put it through its paces and it come back for more, never had to send it in, but a warranty is ALWAYS good. And if it breaks out of warranty, it's like 70 or 80 bucks to replace everything. Not too bad if you ask me. :)

bomb-proof

03-23-2005, 08:48 PM

I prefer sensorless all the way. How many record setting sensored systems do you see out there? Personal choice really.....power or ease of use. I choose power.

Signats

03-23-2005, 08:53 PM

I may go with the Novak, esp if I can find a used one, because I know the company well, and I trust their products. We'll see what happens.

http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=NOVR3005/135.0.7565.0.0.0.0

Re-manufactured Super Sport with a 120 day warrenty for 165$ :)

Dan-o

03-23-2005, 09:15 PM

thanks!

ITurnLeft

03-24-2005, 10:10 AM

I see guys talking about Novak's cell limit all the time, and how bad that is compared to the 12, 18, 24, whatever they run on their "real" brushless systems.. Well tell me, where oh where does one install 12, 18, 24 or whatever cells on the cars and trucks most people have? Show me a place on a Losi truck or an AE buggy to cram more than 7 cells without a hacksaw and glue? When you run the Novak and these other "real" brushless systems on the number of cells a typical 1/10 scale buggy or truck is designed for, the Novak can hang with them all day long and be smoother while doing it.

ElectricThunder

03-24-2005, 12:23 PM

Dan-o

03-24-2005, 12:38 PM

does anyone actually race with 12 cells?

TimisTim

03-24-2005, 12:48 PM

I can place two six cell packs on their side together and they fit perfectly (in a losi xxx-t). And to hold them in well....thats why velcro gorilla straps were invented!! And you can also run a few more if you move your electronics to one side.

But why stick to just normal cells. Why not talk about cell limits with lipo's. As far as I know the Novak cant use them and that is a big drawback for me. If we are talking voltage then yes I would definetly race with 14.4 volts (12 cell sub-c or 4 cell lipo). But only in lipo form as the weight of twelve cells might be to much.

ElectricThunder

03-24-2005, 01:07 PM

does anyone actually race with 12 cells?
Monster trucks like the Emaxx use 12 cells in racing if not a few more.

bomb-proof

03-24-2005, 01:40 PM

I race with 24cells (offroad), couldnt be better. Enough power to run with the nitro C5's.

ITurnLeft

03-24-2005, 03:21 PM

TimisTim

03-24-2005, 06:00 PM

WHAT?!?!? You are trying to tell us your novak will outrun a U-force 75 and a pletty extreme motor! You are nuts my friend.

Then you try to say that this system cogs! You have never seen one of these systems run before have you, or you wouldn't make a comment like that. I use a cheap motor and I only cog when I am going at walking speed if at all. If you are racing at that slow of speeds then there is something wrong.

You may be able to bring home checkers but it will only be against people you talked into getting the novak system, and couldn't drive better than you in the first place.

Dan-o

03-24-2005, 06:42 PM

getting tense in here...

ElectricThunder

03-24-2005, 07:16 PM

Well I race with 6 cells, cuz that's what the class I run dictates. So I say bring your "real" brushless systems, plug in 6 cells and cog till you give up. Meanwhile, I'll be collecting the checkers..
A uforce and pletty shadow or extreme will obliterate a novak ss5800 on just 6 cells. No cogging what so ever. Using a Hacker 6s would be even faster than the plettys I think. I don't think anyone said anything about sensorless being "real" brushless systems. I like sensored setups, but sensorless are just where the power's at right now, and some setups happen to be extremely smooth compared to a sensored controller/motor combo.

This also wasn't supposed to be a thread on sensored vs. sensorless. This was to help Dan-o. And that was accomplished from the posts I've read.

havy

03-24-2005, 08:37 PM

Just in case you guys were waiting for the Plett Shadow as I was... Jamie has them back in stock. www.starluckrc.com

havy :-)

Dan-o

03-24-2005, 08:45 PM

I'll have to go hang down at the track and see what's fastest. Thanks for the info though.

bomb-proof

03-24-2005, 09:45 PM

I would be willing to take that challenge with a brushed motor vs the Novak.

Plenty of cogg free 6 cell systems out there. Heck, you can even get sensored Bl with more power than the novak. The novak is a mild brushless, not too fast, not too slow.

guver

03-25-2005, 03:39 AM

What kind of motors does novak use?

bomb-proof

03-25-2005, 09:12 AM

sensored novak, its all you can use.

ElectricThunder

03-25-2005, 09:32 AM

Novak is limited right now. I wanna see their 8 turn equivalent system, should be interesting. Quick question, it's been bugging me. How come the novak doesn't have insane amounts of torque like a feigao or something? It's got a neo rotor and is about the same Kv as a lehner 4200 (5800 isn't under load, so it's like 4300 or 4500 under load). But the lehner has more torque than it, as well as it being able to put out MUCH more wattage. :confused:

bomb-proof

03-25-2005, 05:07 PM

I ran my feigao 400 sized motor against the Novak and the Novak still didnt have the punch. We were both running matched packs, but cant say about the rest of his system.

ElectricThunder

03-26-2005, 11:17 AM

I ran my feigao 400 sized motor against the Novak and the Novak still didnt have the punch. We were both running matched packs, but cant say about the rest of his system.
For some reason, that doesn't surprise me...lol! The novak is still good as a beginner system for a cheaper price, but now that MGM and feigao have showed up...there's some competition. :eek:

SpEEdyBL

03-26-2005, 06:19 PM

The novak has a 400 size rotor anyway, and a lot of turns

bomb-proof

03-26-2005, 10:04 PM

I wouldnt call a Novak a bad system by any means, just not for me though. If there isnt a chance of fire or chemical burns, you are playin with the kiddy stuff. :cool:

jocktheglide165

03-27-2005, 12:00 AM

you want the fastet on the block get weight gainer 4000 (senseroless), but if you want to be a puny 90lb weakly (novak) then be it. Im a 90lb weakling to be honest.......

TimisTim

03-27-2005, 12:50 AM

I wouldnt put it that way, I think we have come across as being harsh on novaks system. I dont hate the system its their first swing up at bat. Its very affordable and has the feeling of a brushed system which is what I think they were trying to get. They have it aimed at a certain demographic of racers, its just most people on this section of the forum are not that group of people. We like to run large amounts of voltage and practically spin our tires off the rim. There really is nothing wrong with either side of the spectrum.

I just got a little ercked the other day when someone suggested that we "bring your "real" brushless systems, plug in 6 cells and cog till you give up. Meanwhile, I'll be collecting the checkers.." Truly an ignorant statement.

I have to say that if Novak came out with a system that could be programmed as tediously as my u-force and I could run at least 14 volts on I would proabably go with them. Just for their customer support (I have to mail off my shulze to germany instead of california).

But then again they have some catching up to do now, I heard somehting about a Castle Creations controller that is coming out soon. Anyone have any info on that.

tcolesen

03-27-2005, 10:50 AM

Pretty nicely said TimisTim. There is no info out there that is for people like you and me to know. I am guessing that we should expect Castle's controller ~May.

ElectricThunder

03-27-2005, 12:17 PM

The novak has a 400 size rotor anyway, and a lot of turns
I had no idea they used a 400 sized rotor. Anyone know if the HV maxx rotor is the same size, but longer? Maybe it can be crammed into a 5800...:D

jocktheglide165

03-27-2005, 10:29 PM

is it really true the SS5800 can handle 12 cells? I have 3 HV systems and one SS5800 thinking of hooking it up to the HV esc see what happens.

ElectricThunder

03-27-2005, 10:32 PM

Yeah. A guy here supposedly ran one on 12 cells, and 13 made it smoke. And taking into account the loaded Kv is probably about 4400, because 5800 is the unloaded RPM/V. Just don't run it unloaded and it should be fine.

tcolesen

03-27-2005, 11:33 PM

I did some searching, and BL-EVP was the guy that did the high cell count testing with the SS5800 motor. I made it easy for you guys, here is a link to all of his posts:
http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/search.php?searchid=75228

EDIT:
If for some reason this link stops working, just click on "Fnd all posts by BL-EVP" at this link:
http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/member.php?u=48764

TimisTim

03-27-2005, 11:51 PM

I think you might be safe. Batteries (depending on what you have) experience voltage drops especially under the load of drawing the types of amps you are talking! So lets say you get 12 volts (which is very good it will proabably be around 10 or 11v) out of your batts and use it under load like stated above (for the sake of argument I will say 4400rpm/v). So.....12v*4400= 52,800rpm's. This is pretty high but most magnets can take it, its the bearings I would be worried about though they should be fine.

But then again I am just like a frat guy talking his friend into something he wouldn't do himself! But hey good luck!

SS Pede

03-28-2005, 12:17 AM

I'd just like to chime in and sum things up. IMO, the Novak is nice because 1. it is quite fast, no doubt about it and 2. it is easy to setup and use, just plug in a regular 6 cell pack and go. There are faster systems out there, probably better systems out there, but the Novak does pretty well in terms of price, performance, and convenience. If you're not trying to break any speed records, the Novak should be very nice and satisfying.

Aron81

03-28-2005, 12:20 AM

Whatever you get, be sure IT FITS in your vehicle. I wanted to get a higher end system for my car, but due to mounting limitations, ended up going with the Novak 5800. I have to say though, so far I am very happy with it. Maybe not the most power out there, but very easy to use, easy to mount and it gets me moving pretty dang quick! Maybe if I ever get another (or a different) RC, I would go with a higher end BL setup, but for now, I am satisfied!