Getting a Novak ss5800...

[Kucheg]

Hi, I have been running stock 27T motors in my TC3, and I am getting sick of maintenence ect... So I am getting a Novak ss5800 super sport brushless for a bit more speed and less maintenence.

Will I see a major increase in speed, will it be "OMG holy crap" compared to the stockers?

I mean a 27T stock is about 120Watts and the ss5800 is 196Watts, there is not that much of a difference... Is there?

Also what gearing would you guys recommend in my TC3? Just carpark bashing at the moment.

[kufman]

It is a bit faster and had more torque than stock motors. I would suggest starting around a 22 or 23 pinion with a 72 spur. Work your way up in pinion until the temp of the either the motor or controller gets close to 160F or the torque or speed drops off.

[chilledoutuk]

For people who want an easy system to setup and use the Novak supersport rocks. I like mine very much.

With regard to the speed improvement over a stock motor you will be "OMG holy crap" as its the low end torque that stock motors lack really and this system has tons of torque at the low end.

Put a 40mm fan on it and say goodbye to any gearing related thermalaling. I ran it with some thing like 6:1 ratio in my tb01 and it never got warmer than ambient temp.

The way I see it is like this if your in the usa and are after a cheap brushless system with plenty of low-end power then get the Novak supersport. Mostly this is because of support and cost reasons.

If you are from the UK then get the mtroniks combo of the genesis sport which is a great controller and a proper 5800kv motor. This is the best brushless deal in the UK £99. The controller can also run any 2 pole sensorless motor so there is an option of getting lower kv motor and running 10 cells for a stupidly fast car.
Also in the UK they update the software for free and I have been informed that they are planning to make a pc link so that the controller can be configured from your pc.

[brushless_4ever]

Just remember to keep that SS5800 ESC very cool or else it will thermal on you all the time. I had to cut a hole in the front of my Pro 4 body and make a lexan flap pointing toward the ESC to keep it cool or else I couldn't finish a race. Ever since then, I can run about 15 minutes non stop without thermalling.

[Kucheg]

Thanks guys, Just orederd from Tower... Now I just have to wait by the letterbox.

Considering the brushless motor does not have any cooling holes in the can, will it have problems overheating, or is it not an issue because of the efficiency of it? I will definately look into puting a fan on the esc, i might find an old 486 cpu fan lying around.

Thanks again.

[TBone77]

Thanks guys, Just orederd from Tower... Now I just have to wait by the letterbox.

Considering the brushless motor does not have any cooling holes in the can, will it have problems overheating, or is it not an issue because of the efficiency of it? I will definately look into puting a fan on the esc, i might find an old 486 cpu fan lying around.

Thanks again.

You don't have to worry about cooling the motor at all. It barely gets warm. The ESC is the only thing to keep an eye on, and with proper gearing and/or a fan, you have nothing to worry about.

It is a bit faster and had more torque than stock motors.

You win the "Understatement of the Year" award.

The difference in torque AND speed from a 27T stock to the SS5800 is jaw-droppingly awesome. Will you win the mod nats with it? No. A good low-turn mod motor will beat you... but you will be quite impressed with the SS5800's abilities. You'll also be getting much better runtimes.

[Kucheg]

Awesome stuff, I am getting excited now. Will I need to 'toughen up' my TC3? I hear people breaking outdrives alot...

[TBone77]

Awesome stuff, I am getting excited now. Will I need to 'toughen up' my TC3? I hear people breaking outdrives alot...

I don't know if you'll need to strengthen anything in the car or not, especially since all of my experience is off-road... but I can tell you that you're going to witness torque out the yang.

[CharlieS]

You guys won my Vote for Best Thread of the Year.... :)

Thanks
Charlie

[Rookie Solara]

To sums it all, comparing the 5800 vs 27T, I don't think you can run 5800 indoor carpet unless you are a very good racer, 5800 is = 12T motor or so...it will beat 19T, but no way near 10T or under...
However, running outdoor with the 5800 does have a very good advantage...as long as you can keep the ESC cool, that motor will last forever in those 5 minutes heat...and can able to follow those 10T motor, then you need to find the way to BEAT those 8T motor in turns or infield....but on the straight, sorry, not fast enough.

[kufman]

You win the "Understatement of the Year" award.

I don't find it to be that huge of a change, but then again I am more used to running 8 and 9 turn mods and also TC's with brushless motors and 10-12 cells.

The 5800 is honestly good competition for 19T spec motors (which are like 13 to 14 turn mods). At my local track we ran a novak brushless class and also a 19t spec class, both on foam tires. The results from week to week were nearly identical between the two classes. If you compared the times for the brushless class to the 19t class, the brushless cars fell in the middle to upper middle of the 19t class.

[SpEEdyBL]

If you compare stock to mod in the pro races, there still isn't much of a difference.

[Kucheg]

Speedy, do you mean in brushed motors?

[AudiTT-Quattro]

If you compare stock to mod in the pro races, there still isn't much of a difference.
Right. Our last indoor season had TQ times 2-3 seconds apart between stock and mod. That's very close considering the track is fairly open with a long straight.

[SpEEdyBL]

Speedy, do you mean in brushed motors?

yes.

[Jev]

kufman is right, the ss5800 is very similair to a very good 19t super stock.

To get enough top speed for the straight I have to gear high (5.80) which loses some torque.

The ecs does not have a temperature sensor so will not shut down no matter how hot it gets. My ecs would keep shutting down on the last lap due to the high temp of the motor though. So I've disconnected the blue sensor wire and no longer have that problem.

Also bare in mind that different tracks make different demands on the motors.

- High traction = high amp draw
- Bigger speed difference between slow and fastest demands broader power band.
- High ambient temp affect motor temps

[TBone77]

The ecs does not have a temperature sensor so will not shut down no matter how hot it gets. My ecs would keep shutting down on the last lap due to the high temp of the motor though. So I've disconnected the blue sensor wire and no longer have that problem.

If you're referring to the Super Sport, yes it does. The ESC will "thermal" if it gets too hot and it will shut itself off... though one should not depend on it to make sure their ESC does not get damaged. The ESC should operate no higher than 180F. I have mine properly geared and it operates around 160F. Also, the motor should not be getting hot. If it does, something is wrong with your system.

[SandHawg]

If one where to install a fan on the SS5800 should it be blowing cooler air onto the heatsink or drawing the heated air away. My thinking is drawing the heated air away, just curious what others thought.

[TBone77]

Blowing cool air into the heatsink will accomplish both. I don't think mounting it the other way is wise.

[Kucheg]

Blowing onto the heatsing is my bet, as it's the same with CPU's and other electronic heatsinks.

[SandHawg]

Any ideas or pictures regarding the best way to mount a fan on a SS5800. Powering the fan seems pretty straight forward by using the battery slot on my reciever.

If I run 2 GP3300's packs back to back torwards the end the second pack's runtime the system thermals.

I'm geared at or below what Novak recommends in a XXX-T, 86/17.

Thanks

[kufman]

blow air at the controller unless you can make an elaborate cowling around the speed control so that you can reliably draw air across the heat sink. Blowing air directly down isn't ideal but it works well enough.

my novak setup
http://www.******.net/view_single.php?medid=19745

both my cars
http://www.******.net/view_single.php?medid=19744

note: my hacker esc is no longer in the one car. It was replaced with a U-force.

[Jev]

If you're referring to the Super Sport, yes it does. The ESC will "thermal" if it gets too hot and it will shut itself off... though one should not depend on it to make sure their ESC does not get damaged. The ESC should operate no higher than 180F. I have mine properly geared and it operates around 160F. Also, the motor should not be getting hot. If it does, something is wrong with your system.

Properly geared is the gearing which gives the best lap times.... Anything lower than 5.80 gives me slower lap times due to not having enough top end for the straight. Novak can recommend any gearing they want but I'm not losing my races because of it! Sure I get a hot motor but I'd rather win.

I have never had the ecs shutdown even though the heatsink has been too hot to touch so even if it does have thermal shutdown it's unlikely you will reach it with 6 ni-mh cells. I have a 5v 40m fan on it now anyway

[SandHawg]

Jev,

What truck/car are you using the SS5800 in and what's your internal drive ratio?

If your using that gearing in a XXX-T like myself that's like 86/15 = 5.733

5.733*2.43 (internal drive ratio of XXX-T) = 13.932 Final Drive Ratio

Novak recommends a final drive of 12.30 for the XXX-T.

Just curious of you exact circumstances.

Novak

[TBone77]

Properly geared is the gearing which gives the best lap times....

Uhh... that's kinda like saying "the proper number of turns in a motor is the number of turns that gives the best lap times... nevermind that my ESC has a 14T limit... LRP can recommend anything they want!"

If/when you require warranty work on your unit, I recommend ommitting your definition of "properly geared" when speaking with Novak tech support ;) .

JMHO

[brushless_4ever]

You have to keep the ESC cool at all costs. This thing will thermal pretty easily. Last year I didn't have a hole cut in my body of my Pro 4 and it would thermal running on the stock profile after about 4 minutes. I couldn't even finish a race. Now I just have to cut a hole in the body and create a small air duct with a piece of plastic pointing toward the ESC to keep it cool. I haven't thermaled with this setup.

The first batch of Novak SS5800 ESCs and motors would run forever without thermalling.

ROAR has modified their rules now so that the Novak and LRP brushless motors and ESCs can run in the modified classes with the regular brushed motors.

[Jev]

Jev,

What truck/car are you using the SS5800 in and what's your internal drive ratio?

If your using that gearing in a XXX-T like myself that's like 86/15 = 5.733

5.733*2.43 (internal drive ratio of XXX-T) = 13.932 Final Drive Ratio

Novak recommends a final drive of 12.30 for the XXX-T.

Just curious of you exact circumstances.

Novak

I was slightly out with my first qoute, I'm actualy running a 6 to 1 final drive ratio. It's a 65 spur 27 pinion on a tc3. I've worked it out to 32.98mm per rev. With a 12.3 to 1 ratio I would top out 1/3 of the way down the straight lol.

TBone that's not a good comparison. If you ran a 14t limit esc in mod class then you wouldn't finish the race so it wouldn't give faster race times. With my gearing I DO finish the race and I DO win...

Hopefully the new novak combo will be more power full so I can compete with mod class, although everyone seems to have deserted mod class racing at my track. Sensored motors are the only way to go for racing imho.

[Jev]

ignor

[Vato Loco]

I've had my SS5800 for about 2 months now and never had a thermal? Never.....From all what I read before I bought this system I decided to run it like I would a brushed system! I run only 6 cell GP 3300 packs only, I would run it for 10 min and no longer to keep the heat low, and wait till the system cools down, way down between runs! I Don't race because my mod. widened stance rusty is not allowed 13".
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/cmhanson/cad12-000.jpg

But I Bash in the most hardest place on a motor also I take it to the track to during practice hours once in a while. Thick tall Grass and weeds I found is the hards on any motor and I've yet to have a thermal melt down....6Cell no more, Don't OVER gear it, Let it cool down between runs, and don't run the system for over ten Min's at a time. This I found to work great! This motor system is Great!

[Jev]

Got FTQ in qualifying and won one final and DNF'ed the second today with that gearing. Beat the 19t super stock track record.

Racing for 5 minutes in an onroad race is about as harsh on any motor as you can get in this hobby (I'm sure drag racing is pretty harsh though). Off road doesn't create as much load on the motor because there is less traction. If you are not racing then by all means run a much lower ratio, especially if you car is heavier.

A friend of mine designs his own ecs and says the FETs used in the novak brushless esc are of a poor quality compared to current top end brushed esc's :rolleyes: (even novaks own!)

[SpEEdyBL]

I've had my ss5800 for 8 months, never thermaled once and still runs great. My gearing is 23/94 (8.58 fdr) in a xxx4 buggy and 7 gp 3300 cells. I don't race, but I use full throttle a lot.

Iv'e noticed that using full throttle during most of the run actually keeps the system cooler, so there's an explaination why racers may have trouble keeping it cool.

[bholio]

Iv'e noticed that using full throttle during most of the run actually keeps the system cooler, so there's an explaination why racers may have trouble keeping it cool.

Kinda makes sense. At full throttle, the system is just fighting wind and friction. If you speed up and slow down alot (like in racing), the ESC/Motor is constantly fighting the weight of the car to speed it up and slow it down.

I just got the SS. Had it in an old Tamiya Hornet for a few runs and now a T3. I've been very easy on it so far, the Hornet was super light and the T3 has a 12t pinion, and I can barely detect a rise in heat at all on the ESC or motor. It will be intersting to see how it does when I start stepping up the pinions in the T3.

[Kucheg]

Finally, this morning I got my package from Tower :) But I have to go to uni in 20mins :( Which means I will have to wait till this afternoon to put my car together.

One question, I ordered 2 sets of HPI D-Compound tyres (4 total), and in the pack are 2 inserts for the 2 tyres, but the two inserts are different.
One is a light gray color and is fairly hard, and the other is a darker color and is softer, shouldn't the two inserts be the same?

Thanks

[Kucheg]

Got home from UNI, started work on my car, finally finished it, and it's too dark. Plus it rained all day today, so testing tomorow (if weather permits). All I need to do is solder deans onto the esc and I am up and running.

Can't wait... All I have is a 21T pinion, so It will be a little slow... Need to go to the LHS and get larger pinion, and new wheel nuts too.