Fastest - brushless for mini-t??? - NOT a Mamba

[danhfvcsd]

Heya :)
I run a totally blinged mini-t, with a mamba 8000/2cell lipo.

I'm just looking for something else, as there are so many mambas out there - just want something different - and preferrably something exotic and 'cool' -lol-

I have heard of a lehner 1015 motor being used, but was wondering if there was a 300 size bl motor that was worth using to take me faster than the mamba 800 - but i want to be able to run with both 2 and 3 cells?

Basically - what are my options for a faster alternative to the mamba without doing too many mods - like - i dont wanna have to make a new motor mount plate or anything you know? I dont mind doing small mods - but nothing major...i have a big block motor plate from fullforce rc for a 300 size motor if that means anything?

I also dont want the motor to be killed on the ground when it wheelies or lands a jump -lol- I kinda have a feeling the lehner 1015 is gonna be the way to go, but what other similar sized options do i have?? how uch bigger is the 1020? etc etc

i need options guys!

cheers for your help :)
-daniel

btw - here's a pic - it's got a few more bits on it now tho, and i'm running trinity monsters atm :)
Blinged Mini-T Picture :) (http://www.ausrc.com/galleries/danhfvcsd/Bling_Mini-T/Mini-T_17.jpg)

[ducati777]

Looks good man. Look for hackers, they're purple and roughly the same size. As far as faster, the mamba has the highest KV rating, but that doesn't always mean more power. If you go with another brand it might be a 6000 kv motor, and you could gear it up to get the speed you want.

[TimisTim]

There is a new tekin system coming out some time. Heres the web site.....

http://www.teamtekin.com/SCORPION.asp

[bomb-proof]

If you want faster, go with the 5400 on 3s.

[danhfvcsd]

well why wouldn't i just throw a 3cell on the 8000 then? Or are you talking about something different bomb-proof?

Thanks ducati - i'll look into a couple hacker stuff - is there a certain series motor in specific i should be looking at tho?

Thanks for the Tekin info! I'll check some of that out aswell :)

Cheers for the input fellas! keep the suggestions coming! hehe :)

[ElectricThunder]

A 3 cell lipo on an 8000 Kv motor is asking for trouble. It's been done and tested by CC I think, but once you do it, it voids the warranty. Plus things may start to get a bit "hairy". :eek:

[OptimaMan]

Huh? 3cell lipo and 8000 work just fine - just don't pull the trigger too fast. It'll take the mini T to over 40 mph. If you go with the 1010 13 turn motor, you'll be at around 9200 Kv. That's the fastest little motor I can think of.

[TimisTim]

Better keep that motor under load at those rpm's or :poof!!:

I guess the rotor is small enough to withstand the forces but what about the bearings.

[bomb-proof]

the high kv motors are just begging for trouble. They tax the cells alot more and create unnessisary heat. The 5400/3s is the ticket. Just because they make it, and it has a higher # doesnt mean its faster. The 8000kv is junk IMO.

Before you say your 8000kv motor is the greatest thing in the world, ask yourself what you have to compare it to.

[ducati777]

I got a 3s 5400 and its pretty dang quick. But like bomb proof says, I got nothing to compare it to. Well thats not true, I've seen the 3s 8000 in a mini T and it wasn't controllable. It was pretty much an on off switch. Don't get me wrong, when it was on, it was fast, but there was no middle ground.

KV is really just an rpm rating. Power, thus top speed, are different. When it comes to the mambas, they're all the same motor with different winds right? I'd think if you're looking for something thats faster, you'd want to step up to a 400 size can and big voltage, at least 3s, possibly 4. Don't worry about the KV, just get bigger and gear it to the speed your looking for.

[bomb-proof]

right, gearing is the solution to Kv.

[danhfvcsd]

well, i can compare my 8000 on 2cell lipo to my 1/10 on road with 6 gp3300 nimh cells with a D6 in it? It's still faster than my mini t, but not that much quicker at all. Other than that - i have nothing to compare -lol-

I was trying to stay clear of larger size motors due to it being way more exposed when i crash it, plus the fact i'd rather not mod it as my fabricating skills aren't exactly pro -lol- a 300 size was all i really wanted to get to at my max.


OK - so i think i'm leaning more towards either a lehner 1010 or 1015.
So - my question now is, for 3cell lipo use, would i be better with a 12t 1010 and use relatively light gearing, or could i use the 1015, and gear the crap out of it?

I'm not too sure how gearing works too much except that small pinion means fast acc/low top end, and big pinion makes slow acc/fast top end and i know the spur does the opposite, and i know if ur motor is getting hot u should gear pinion down - right?

But that's about my knowledge extent for gearing, so i need help -lol-

thanks again everyone for your input!

by the way - bomb proof - im not trying to start any arguements here - but are you saying that if you had 2 mini-t's...with everything exactly the same...except one had a 3cell mamba 5400 setup, and the other had an 8000 on 3cells....are you saying that the 5400 would be faster, or a more sane choice? I'm kinda looking for the more INsane option - but i appreciate the respect for my wallet you have -lol- :)

[kufman]

All they are trying to say is that running a 4000 rpm per volt motor on 12 volts is more reliable than running an 8000 rpm/v motor on 6 volts. High current is rough on controllers. The mamba can go up to 16 cells, I think, but only 25 amps. So it is nicer on the controller and batteries to run more cells and fewer amps. Look at the insane speed run cars like the 110 mph car that cliff lett drove. It had a very slow motor, around 1500 rpm/v I think, lots of cells, and it was geared like 3:1 or less. Here is the article

http://www.rccaraction.com/rc/articles/need_speed2.asp

[Mr. Constructor]

@ danhfvcsd:

If you feel for ultra brutal speed and power i might get a special version for you:

Lehner 1015 with 9 or 10 windings, they´re not listed, but should be possible, this small motor in a Mini T (even a blinged up one) will be extremely insane even on 2 lipo cells, not to mention 3 lipos, but the controller should be a 40 A one (or around, to have a little more "space" in the amp draw)

The People at BK Electronics did use these 1015 in their Mini T ´s too, they´re a lot better than the mambas (they tested both systems) but they´re not that cheap stuff, esp. with a 30-50A controller, but the system will be awesome at all.

So i would recommend (if ya wanna really do this) use a 1015 the Torque is way better than the too small 1010 series, but it isn´t too much to destroy all drivetrain parts.

But be shure about the amp draw during accleration, it will go up till around 40A, the lipos should make that, or you have to decide on the 2 or the 3 lipo setting with the motor winds and cannot change between 2 or 3 cells.

[bomb-proof]

by the way - bomb proof - im not trying to start any arguements here - but are you saying that if you had 2 mini-t's...with everything exactly the same...except one had a 3cell mamba 5400 setup, and the other had an 8000 on 3cells....are you saying that the 5400 would be faster, or a more sane choice? I'm kinda looking for the more INsane option - but i appreciate the respect for my wallet you have -lol-

ya, not tryin to start an flame war either. I would put my money on a correctly geared 5400 on 3s. You should easily be over 50mph and be very dependable. The added torque of the lower kv motor really comes into play with the high mph.

[danhfvcsd]

ahhh - sorry fellas - now i kinda see what you guys are getting at :) Took me a few times to read through - but i eventually got there -lol- I still dont see exactly how it works - but i got a basic grasp of it i think.

Although Mr Constructor has me excited there -lol- btw - i sent the LST parts off for you today too mate -lol-

How about a 1015 - on 3cells? What controller would you be thinking of, and how big is it? Is there a certain brand/mah size lipo cell that would be best suited for the application? (assuming so).

Let me know constructor - looks like i might be giving you some more money -lol-

[Mr. Constructor]

Hi Dan:

as for the 1015, i took the 11 Wind choice for example, as the others are only available on special request.
This Motor´s Kv is measured under Load, where most others will measure without load, so this is a huge difference !!!

The load for this small motor isn´t big at all, but it is big for the motor itself.
The serrated rotor (meaning that the magnets are made out of a stack of several smaller pieces) is able to run cooler and gives a better perfomance overall, thus reducing the heat generally.

The Lipo´s for such a application will be only a few ones:
1. KOKAM 2100 P size in 3 cell configuration: 64x98x18.0mm, weight: 204 gr, 2100 mAh and up to 42 A (was tested with these figures and will be able to hold little more for short time)

2. Thunder Power same 2100 mAh, but much less draw: up to 22 A, @:100x35x21mm, weighting around 150 gr

3. Polyquest: 122x45x14mm, at around 140 gr. cont. discharge at: 26 A max.

As you see there are a few left when choosing these power applications, i think the best one will be the kokam.
As for the esc there are only a few ones left also:

1. MGM 4012 3 S C/B (around 55x30x12mm at 40 gr with cables) up to 40A wich should be WAY enough for such a small truck, but due to the higher weight (the alu parts are heavier than most thought) it is a safety to have a extra power in the esc !! (the 2512 3S will only have 25 A for a short time, the peaks might to be too high)

2. Schulze 12.46 at 77x30x11mm at a weight of around 40 gr too, this esc is able to even run a small 12th or a 10th pan car !!
There is a smaller (thickness 8 mm, rest the same) esc too: 12.36 (36 A )

3. Hacker Mini Car Esc: 42x23x7mm, 20-30 gr, but only 25 A for short time !!

4. maybe the new Tekin ??? nothing yet determined, but as the size and the application shows it might be comparable to the Hacker or the Mamba esc

The best suited esc for having lot´s of power at a very good price will be the MGM, it´s lightweight and small too, so it might be my favorite choice.

I am testing this small esc in a 10th pan car in the near future, hopefully it´ll hold that power (weight is around 1000 gr fully ready to go, so a alu truck should be less than that or not ???)

Could you weight it without batterys but all stuff needed on and in (like body too)

[OptimaMan]

My first Mini T was using a HiMaxx 5400 motor and a Schulze 12.97 fwe (yeah, you read it right) and a TP 1900 pack. Geared 13 tooth pinion, it would get to 29 mph. Plenty fast. REALLY nice control especially with that speed controller. TOO much torque.

The next Mini T was using a Mamba 8000. The controller was not as smooth, but geared the same, it was 40 mph. Again, TOO much torque.

The lipo packs are capable of over 100 watts continous. That small motor is probaly giving out MORE power than a Trinity Stock motor on 6 cells... No wonder why the mini T with 3 s lipos are more than a handful. You DON'T need a larger motor.

3s and 5400 and 50 mph is probably achievable, but you need a LARGE pinion gear - like a 25 tooth or something. I'm not sure if you can even get one that size and if you could, I'm not sure if it would fit the motor plate!!!

If MAX speed, insane running is what you want, get the 8000. If you want to race, run, DRIVE your vehicle, get something slower. Also, don't waste money on 2s packs. Just get 3s packs and get the appropriate pinions, spur, and motor. You don't want the batteries to be the limiting factor in your performance.

[danhfvcsd]

-shivers- ok ok ok....you got me excited now! -lol-

It'll be a 'pita' mounting the batts - they seem fairly large -lol- But i think i'll be able to use the lower deck for the electrics, and throw the batts up on top :) I'll have to measure up what space i have to use tonight, but i can always work around that :) the MGM/Kokam/Lehner combo looks to be a winner too :cool: Can you pm me a quote d00d? :)

I haven't got any scales to weigh it on....i'll have to head over to a mates place tonight and see how i go - otherwise, i'll just take it to a department store and use their scales or something -lol- I assume you want me to take the mamba motor and esc out for the weigh-in also? :)


Thanks for the input optima - that kinda made a lil more sense about the gearing and higher wind motors and all that up above to me :) I was really hoping to keep to the same size can too - i'm not really known for my machining skills -lol-

I'm definately looking for insane speed tho - that's my goal :) Nothing like a record speed - just for my own fun :) Even if i cant run it on a track or whatever - i can always limit the throttle lever on the tx and take out the end of the throttle trigger's travel - i dunno the proper 'term' for it - i just hope it made sense -lol-

Thanks guys! Appreciate your help/input/thoughts etc etc!!!
-daniel

[rckid11]

Well I have been looking into a motor/esc combo for my mini-t, and have found this thread. Would a 4016 MGM esc work well in a mini-t running 2 cell lipo? Thanks.

[danhfvcsd]

hmm...cant say i'm any help to you - thats why i started the thread -lol-

Give a holler out to Mr Constructor - he's helped me out HEAPS with a few different things :)

[Mr. Constructor]

a 4012 MGM esc will do it up to 4 lipos, the esc could be switched from 2 or 3 or 4 lipos (the cut off voltage) so there would be no problem, but be careful: the one you mentioned (4016) hasn´t got bec AND is not a car esc !!!

the 4012 3S C/B is the car esc, it is capable of:

6-12 cells nimh/nicd, 2-4 cewlls lipo, has bec could use up to 50A (short time, general: 40A) has all around 2,5 qmm cables (12 awg or around it) weights 33 gr with full lenght cables and has the dimensions:

55x32x6 mm

the others are ALL not with a car software, the pc kit funktion on the car / boat esc´s is not funktioning till now, it is unclear when this feature will be available.
but you could set any parameter easily through the transmitter, it is really easy and fast (full setup in less than 30 sec.) if you understood it once !!