Beginners?

[jetpack]

Hi,

I am new to the forums and rc flight alltogether, I was hoping to find a beginners catagory here. Is there one that I am not seeing and if not, would it be possible to get one as I do not know where to go for my questions. Any info would be great

Thank you

[Dave Robelen]

Hi,
You are in good company, since all of us were beginners at one time. Just pick the category of model you are interested in, and fire away. Remember, there are no "stupid" questions. All of the categories can be for beginners.
Cheerrs, Dave

[jetpack]

Dave,

Thank you vary much for the reply and the info, it is appreciated.

[aeajr]

Right here is fine. How can we help you?

[aeajr]

Jetpack,

How are you doing?

[imtat2d]

hi all, i want to get into flying but do not know where to start. i have an uncle that flys and he gave me a bunch of ads and articles but i wanted to get some info before i start checking into what i want to buy. is there a big difference between electric and nitro? i run alot of trucks and the main diff. with them are run times. is there a beginner plane that would make the "perfect starter" ? something that is reliable but wont cost too much when i smash it back to mother earth? lol... any comments or advice would be greately appreciated! thanks, cam.

[aeajr]

Glow vs. Electric vs. Gliders :confused:

You will get many opinions on electric vs. nitro ( glow ) powered planes. There are also several types of gliders/sailplanes. I will give you my prospective. Note that I fly small electrics, thermal duration sailplanes, discus launched gliders and slope gliders. My experience with glow planes is limited. I do not believe one type of plane is better than the others. They all have their attractions and they are all fun.

Glow (nitro) Powered Planes

Until recently, glow powered planes owned the bulk of the RC airplane market. If you were getting into RC airplanes, you were getting a glow powered plane.

Glow planes tend to be bigger, faster and more powerful as compared to electrics. Even the starter planes tend to be 4 channel planes having ailerons, elevator rudder and throttle. It is not uncommon for a starter glow plane to be capable of hitting 50 mph, so you need a fair amount of room to fly them. There are smaller models, but typically the starter planes tend to be in the 64-96 once range with wing spans of 48-70 inches. Planes can be made of almost any material, but wood and shrink wrapped covering construction are very common in the trainer/first plane part of the market.

As compared to electrics or gliders, glow planes are fast, loud, messy and more restricted on where they can be flown because they tend to be heavier, faster, more powerful and loud.

Many people like them because of the power and, they like the sound of the glow engines. Wing loadings above 18 oz/sq ft are common. Due to the higher wing loadings they tend to be better in the wind. 10 mph winds don't bother these planes too much. Because of their size and weight, a runway is usually needed. This can be a hard surface but many clubs use maintained grass runways that are tended and cut short.


Electric powered planes

Reports are that electrics are now outselling glow planes, so they are becoming quite common. More and more people are starting on electrics and this market is exploding.

Electric planes tend to be smaller, slower, and less powerful. Starter planes tend to be in the 10-24 ounce range. While there are lots of fast, powerful 4 channel electrics, there are a huge number of three channel planes that are rudder/elevator/throttle based. Due to this design many are used as self trainers as they are fairly stable and self correcting. Planes can be made of almost any material, but foam and plastics are very common in the trainer/first plane part of the market. These materials are tough, resilient, harder to break and easier to fix than typical wood structures. Some foams will actually bounce in a crash.

Because of their size and typically lighter weight, many electric powered planes can be hand launched so they don't need a runway of any kind. Many electrics don't even have landing gear. You just belly land them on grass or any other smooth flat surface. If you do wish to use a runway, a hard surface is usually best as the small light planes can have trouble taking off from even a short cut well groomed grass strip.

Electrics tend toward the lighter weight floater/slow flyers as compared to the glow planes. Wing loadings of 5-12 oz /sq ft are common. Due to the light wing loading the planes can fly more slowly. Many can be flown indoors or in smaller fields that would be tight for typical glow planes. However the lighter wing loadings also make them more subject to being tossed around by the wind. 10 mph winds can be troublesome to many small electrics. New pilots trying to self train are encouraged to take their first flights in dead calm to under 5 mph winds.

Electrics are quiet, clean and tend to be less restricted as to where they can be flown, because they are smaller, slower and quiet. Often small electrics can be flown unnoticed by neighbors. While traditional club fields are still the best place to fly any RC plane, many open fields can be good flying sites for small electrics.

Gliders/Sailplanes

Gliders are planes that are designed to fly without the aid of a motor. In fact all planes are gliders when you turn the motor off, but most are not designed with this as their normal flight mode. For clarity, I use the term sailplane to refer to unpowered thermal duration gliders. All other forms I call gliders. However, from a practical point of view, gliders and sailplanes are the same thing, so don't get hung up on the terms.

Gliders have always been a smaller part of the market. Some say 10-15% of RC pilots fly gliders and, of course, many also fly powered planes as well.

Gliders are designed to be flown without a motor or with the motor off. They take many forms. Some have electric motors to launch them, but the intention is that these are used to climb to a gliding height then turned off. You can have glow powered gliders but their numbers have diminished to near zero.

Thermal duration sailplanes/gliders are designed to ride warm air currents as they rise into the sky. Slope gliders ride slope lift along cliffs, dunes and other areas. Gliders can fly for long periods without the use of a motor, under the right circumstances.

Because gliders are intended to be flow unpowered, weight is always a big factor. Most do not have landing gear as they don't use a runway for take-off. You just belly land them on grass or any other smooth flat surface. Because there is no "going around" for another landing attempt with an unpowered sailplane, larger fields are favored so that the pilot has plenty of room to land.

Gliders can be hand launched, discus launched, hi-start launched, winch launched, tow launched or, as noted above, launched with their own electric motors. First planes can run the whole range from 6 ounces to 36 ounces with wing spans of 24 to 80 inches. Wing loadings are typically in the 4-10 oz/sq foot range.

Gliders can be made of almost any material. Wood with plastic covering tends to be most popular in the first thermal gliders. Resilient foam is most common in the first slope gliders. Discus and hand launched can be wood, foam, plastic and combinations. Some foams will actually bounce in a crash.

Many will tell you that gliders are the best way to learn to fly an RC plane. Quite and slow flying they teach you how to fly on the wings rather on the power of the motor. Because they tend to be slow flyers with light wing loadings, they give the new pilot more time to think and to react and if a crash does occur, then tend to be a much slower speeds than powered planes, so the tendency is to have less damage.

Hand launched and discus launched gliders make great first RC planes. Slope gliders need slope areas so not all pilots will have this choice. Unpowered thermal duration gliders/sailplanes need some kind of a launching system and tend to need larger fields for launching and landing.

My personal note is that, once I learned to fly gliders, I became a better electric pilot. :cool:


Cost?

All depends on how you evaluate it so I won't go there. Since gliders have no significant ongoing fuel costs and most don't have motors, they are definitely the lowest cost to fly, over time. As to glow vs. electrics, over a two year period, when you add up all the start up costs .... let's call it a wash. :)

I am sure someone will argue this point so we can address it then. My suggestion is that no matter what branch of flying you enter, cost per flight is not going to be your driving decision factor. But it is a factor so consider your start-up costs and your long range operating costs if this is important to you. First cost was part of my decision process but operating cost has not been part of my decision process. I fly what I enjoy as I can afford it.


Training?

There are thousands of people teaching themselves to fly on electrics and gliders. While you can self train on a glow powered plane, the tendency is to take these to a club field to work with an instructor, primarily because of the safety issues, the speed and space requirements around the size and power of the planes. Also most glow powered planes need a runway for takeoff and landing. Many electrics and gliders are hand launched and are belly landed on grass, so no runway is needed.

There are exceptions to all these statements. ;)

Ready to fly - While there are RTF glow plane packages and gliders, the electric market is overflowing with RTF plane packages. Some are great and some not so good. Ask before you buy.

Fun? All three are fun! :p Oh, and did we mention helicopters? :D


Was that helpful?

[imtat2d]

very helpful, thanks alot! sorry jetpack for kind of hi-jacking your thead! any advice on a good electric plane? i think that is what i want to start out with. are planes flyable in winter (it gets COLD here in michigan) or are you grounded in the colder months? thanks, cam.

[aeajr]

I live in NY and fly all year round. Just keep the batteries warm and protect the electronics from water. A warm motor or battery will melt snow.

A good first plane?

Tell me about your budget.
Do you want RTF, ARF or kit?
Do you have 72 mhz radio?
How large a flying area do you have?
Does it tend to be windy ( over 10 mph ) a lot of the time?

[imtat2d]

i have a park at the end of the street now, but i own 5 acres in nc and plan on moving there next year, so i will have alot more room down there. i dont want to get too expensive, i dont have a radio at all. i just sold a high end one for a helicopter because i didn't think i could use it with a plane. it was like 6 channels... but i will be looking for the whole kit. it gets windy up here but will be much better down south. i was going to start looking through the for sale/trade in here just to get an idea.

[aeajr]

OK, if you have 5 acres you have enough room to fly, but not a lot of room to fly.

Planes like the Slo-V, Slow Stick, GWS Pico Tiger moth and other slow flyers will feel very much at home on 5 acres for a new flyer.

Somewhat faster planes like the Aerobird Challenger, T-Hawk or the Easy Star will seem to run out of room quickly. The Aerobird manual, for example, suggests an open area of about 600 feet across. So depending on your 5 acres and how treeless it is, it might be enough or you may be dodging stuff all over the place.

I am going to assume you have about 2 acres of clear, open space. and that you can overfly trees, house, etc for the rest.

ou want a a slow flyer that will work in your space. With these you can train in the
space of a little league baseball field, a football field or similar space. Once you get good you can fly in just the baseball infield or 1/3 of the football field, in front of your house, or even indoors.

I always suggest that new flyers start in very calm conditions regardless of
what plane they get. This way they can focus on the plane and not fighting
the wind. If you can do this and be strong about avoiding anything above
about 3 mph, then you can train close to home.

Once you have 10-15 solid flights in a row, with safe landings, then you can
move up the wind scale a little at a time as you gain confidence. This could
be accomplished in a few 2 hour sessions. Or it could be done in a single
4-6 hour day if you have 3-4 batteries and have a charger or two you can use
at the field. Of course, this assumes you don't smack up the plane.

Some of these will tollerate 5 mph and some up to about 8.

Slow-V RTF from Parkzone - $140 - Space CL2/3
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze. This is good for people want an
RTF and
who only have a small space to fly or who have an indoor place to fly, such as
a gym or
similar space.
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=PKZ1300[/u
rl]

T-IFO - $75 including Motor
[url]http://www.flyifo.com/htmlpages/tifo.html
Complete package with radio - $275
http://www.flyifo.com/htmlpages/ordertifo.html#
Review
http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=4117

Slow stick - $35 -
Can also be flown indoors in a gym or similar space.
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_53&products_id=2
or
Slow stick Complete Package incl radio - $150
(need battery charger)
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=56&products_id=602
The Slow Stick Info Site
http://mattsrc.rchomepage.com/ssir/index.shtml
Discussion Thread
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=GWS1020
video
http://www.skrogg.com/sun.wmv

Tiger Moth - $50
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_53&products_id=20
or
Tiger moth Complete Package incl. radio - $150
(need battery charger)
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=343
Review
http://www.backyardflyer.com/BY/articles/tiger_moth.asp

If you have the money I would recommend a comptuer radio like the Futaba 6EXA as entry level comptuer radios. More on radios:

Entry Level Radios - If you have to go cheap
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=44

Computer Radios - The recommended path for almost everyone
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65

GWS 12V Peak Charger - can charger from a car cig lighter -
There are cheaper chargers, but this one looks good for this plane and
future - $49
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=GWS3000

[aeajr]

Slow flyer Starter Package - The Slo-V mentioned above is an RTF that includes the radio, charger, batter, etc. The others are ARFs so you have to buy the radio and do some assembly. This package of parts will work for any of them.


Sourced from GWS Expert-

Slow Stick - ARF complete package - $150
Plane, Radio, ESC, Motor, receiver, servos, battery
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=56&products_id=602

Battery Charger - $48
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=86

Extra battery - $10
http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=515

$150 + 48 + 10 = $208 + Shipping



Sourced from Horizon Hobby

Slow Stick $35
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=GWS1040
http://www.remote-control-rc-hobby.com/cgi-bin/site.pl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fshmyl.com%2Fyco

GWS Dream Starter Kit has everything -$127
incl the crystal
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=GWSRCS250B


Extra batteries can be found here: $12-$18
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=GWS%20Batteries&OverallCatID=

You can use this low cost peak charger. $19
This plugs into the cig lighter in the car. Lets you recharge at the field,
about 20-30 minutes. If you have 2-3 batteries, you can stay in the air all
day. You will need to put a new end on as it has aerobird connector, not GWS
connector. How good are you at soldering?
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=HBZ1026

This would be the right charge connector for the GWS batteries $2
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=HRC56211

$35+127+12+19+2= $195 + Shipping

OR

If you budget can swing it, this GWS charger looks pretty nice: $49 And it
has the right kind of conenctors. - key point
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=GWS3000

$35+127+12+49+2= $225 + Shipping with the better charger.


The Slow Stick Info Site
http://mattsrc.rchomepage.com/ssir/index.shtml

[Leo L]

There is a very good article for beginner flyers on the horizonhobby.com website. The article is titled: The Runway: Getting started in RC Flight Blog. The writer uses Horizon Hobby's products (HobbyZone), but the information is very good and should be applicable to all begginners. His experience is very similar to mine. I started flying this past April using a 2-channel RTF (Firebird Commander). After numerous crashes and encounters with trees, I finally got pretty good with it, so I decided to move up to 3-channel. I bought a ParkZone Cub, but that didn't last too long. On the maiden flight, an experienced flyer was helping to adjust the trim, but by the time that he was finished playing with the controls over my shoulder, the plane was more than a 1/2 mile away and ended up crashing. We searched, but never found it. I then bought the Megatech Airstrike and decided to do all of the trimming myself. The first two flights resulted in nose first crashes, so I set that plane aside, figuring that I will return to it when I get a lot better at flying. I then bought an Aerobird Challenger, and have had a blast with it. It is a very natural progression from the 2-channel Firebird, and is very forgiving. I recently bought a used Cub and have had a ball flying it, although my landings are still a little rough.

The biggest lessons that I learned: 1) You cann't beat the wind with a beginner's plane. I prefer flying early in the morning, just after sunrise when the wind is at a minimum and there are no people around. 2) In a contest between your plane and a tree, the tree will win every time! Stay away from them, or stay well above them.

Have fun. Flying is a great time.

[aeajr]

Leo L, very good advice on the wind. Let me add to that.

Whether you have a coach or you are trying to learn to fly on your own, you
will need to be mindful of these six areas if you are going to become a
successful RC pilot. After two years of working with new flyers at our club,
and coaching flyers on the forums, there are a few things I have seen as the
key areas to stress for new pilots. Some get it right away and some have to
work at it. They are in no particular order because they all have to be
learned to be successful.

WIND
Orientation
Speed
Altitude
Over Control
Preflight Check

1) Wind - The single biggest cause of crashes that I have observed has been
the
insistence upon flying in too much wind. If you are under an instructor's
control or on a buddy box, then follow their advice, but if you are starting
out and tying to learn on your own, regardless of the model, I recommend dead
calm to 3 MPH for the slow stick and tiger moth type planes. Under 5 MPH for
all others. That includes gusts. An experienced pilot can handle more. It
is the pilot, more than the plane, that determines how much wind can be
handled.

The wind was around 10 mph steady with gusts to 12. That was strong enough
that some of the experienced pilots flying three and four channel small
electric planes chose not to launch their electrics. This new flyer insisted
that he wanted to try his two and three channel parkflyers. Crash, Crash,
Crash - Three planes in pieces. He just would not listen. Sometimes you just
have to let them crash. There is no other way to get them to understand.

Many parkflyers can be flown in higher winds by AN EXPERIENCED PILOT. I
have flown my Aerobird in 18 mph wind (clocked speed) but it is quite exciting
trying to land it.

Always keep the plane up wind from you. There is no reason for a new flyer to
have the plane downwind EVER!


2) Orientation - Knowing the orientation of your plane is a real challenge,
even for experienced pilots. You just have to work at it and some adults have
a real problem with left and right regardless of which way the plane is going.
Licensed pilots have a lot of trouble with this one as they are accustomed to
being in the plane.

Here are two suggestions on how to work on orientation when you are not
flying.

Use a flight simulator on your PC. Pick a slow flying model and fly it a lot.
Forget the jets and fast planes. Pick a slow one. Focus on left and right
coming at you. Keep the plane in front of you. Don't let it fly over your
head.

FMS is a free flight simulator. It is not the best flight sim, but the price
is right and it works. There are also other free and commercial simulators.

FMS Flight simulator Home Page
Free download
http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html

Parkflyers for FMS
http://gunnerson.homestead.com/files/fms_models.htm

The links below take you to sites that provide cables that work with FMS. If
your radio has a trainer port, these cables allow you to use the trainer port
on your radio to "fly" the
simulator. This is an excellent training approach.

http://www.mattclement.freeservers.com/fms/fms.html
http://www.simblaster.com/
http://www.customelectronics.co.uk/

An alternative is to try an RC car that has proportional steering. You don't
have to worry about lift, stall and wind. Get something with left and right
steering and speed control. Set up an easy course that goes toward and away
from you with lots of turns. Do it very slowly at first until you can make
the turns easily. Then build speed over time. You'll get it! If it has
sticks rather than a steering wheel even better, but not required. Oh, and
little cars are fun too.


3) Too much speed - Speed it the enemy of the new pilot but if you fly too
slowly the wings can't generate enough lift, so there is a compromise here.
The key message is that you don't have to fly at full throttle all the time.
Most small electrics fly very nicely at 2/3 throttle and some do quite well at
1/2. That is a much better training speed than full power. Launch at full
power and climb to a good height, say 100 feet as a minimum, so you have time
to recover from a mistake. At 100 feet, about double the height of the trees
where I live, go to half throttle and see how the plane handles. If it holds
altitude on a straight line, this is a good speed. Now work on slow and easy
turns, work on left and right, flying toward you and maintaining altitude.
Add a little throttle if the plane can't hold altitude.


4) Not enough altitude - New flyers are often afraid of altitude. They feel
safer close to the ground. Nothing could be more wrong.

Altitude is your friend. Altitude is your safety margin. It gives you a
chance to fix a mistake. If you are flying low and you make a mistake ....
CRUNCH!

As stated above I consider 100 feet, about double tree height where I live, as
a good flying height and I usually fly much higher than this. I advise my new
flyers that fifty feet, is minimum flying height. Below that you better be
lining up for landing.


5) Over control - Most of the time the plane does not need input from you.
Once you get to height, a properly trimmed plane flying in calm air will
maintain its height and direction with no help from you. In fact anything you
do will interfere with the plane.

When teaching new pilots I often do a demo flight of their plane. I get the
plane to 100 feet, then bring the throttle back to a nice cursing speed. I
get it going straight, with plenty of space in front of it, then take my hand
off the sticks and hold the radio out to the left with my arms spread wide to
emphasize that I am doing nothing. I let the plane go wherever it wants to
go, as long as it is holding altitude, staying upwind and has enough room. If
you are flying a high wing trainer and you can't do this, your plane is out of
trim.

Even in a mild breeze with some gusts, once you reach flying height, you
should be able to take your hand off the stick. Oh the plane will move around
and the breeze might push it into a turn, but it should continue to fly with
no help from you.

Along this same line of thinking, don't hold your turns for more than a couple
of seconds after the plane starts to turn. Understand that the plane turns by
banking or tilting its wings. If you hold a turn too long you will force the
plane to deepen this bank and it will eventually lose lift and go into a
spiral dive and crash. Give your inputs slowly and gently and watch the
plane. Start your turn then let off then turn some more and let off. Start
your turns long before you need to and you won't need to make sharp turns.

I just watch these guys hold the turn, hold the turn, hold the turn, crash.
Of course they are flying in 10 mph wind, near the ground, coming toward
themselves at full throttle.

6) Preflight check - Before every flight it is the pilot's responsibility to
confirm that the plane, the controls and the conditions are correct and
acceptable for flight.

Plane - Batteries at proper power
Surfaces properly aligned
No damage or breakage on the plane
Everything secure

Radio - Frequency control has been met before you turn on the radio
A full range check before the first flight of the day
All trims and switches in the proper position for this plane
Battery condition is good
Antenna fully extended
For computer radios - proper model is displayed
All surfaces move in the proper direction

Conditions - No one on the field or in any way at risk from your fight
You are launching into the wind
Wind strength is acceptable ( see wind above )
Sunglasses and a hat to protect your eyes
All other area conditions are acceptable.

Then and only then can you consider yourself, your plane, radio and the
conditions right for flight. Based on your plane, your radio and local
conditions you may need to add or change something here, but this is the bare
minimum. It only takes a couple of minutes at the beginning of the flying
day and only a few seconds to perform before each flight.

If this all seems like too much to remember, do what professional pilots do,
take along a preflight check list. Before every flight they go down
the check list, perform the tests, in sequence, and confirm that all is right.
If you want your flying experience to be a positive one, you should do the
same. After a short time, it all becomes automatic and just a natural part of
a fun and rewarding day.

I hope some of this is useful in learning to fly your plane.