After engine upgrade, spur gears ARE GONE in seconds!! need some HELP!

[strada001]

hi guys!!
I just upgraded my T-maxx to the "top" engine level....
I'm using a Picco/ofna .26 but here is the deal....

I started it up yesterday just trying to do the BRAKE IN process and in less than half tank of gas my spur gear was GONE and I really mean it.... it's center was detached from the rest of it. like burned out, the red little "pegs" are like chewing gum inside the black plastic mess..... (ok, it was yesterday)
and I tought I left the gear just too loose.....

today I fixed it... put a new spur gear on... and tried again.... with just a few seconds the BRAND NEW GEAR was toothless...... and it's middle was almost GONE again.... (this time I used "the book" settings for it.)

so... I don't know what to do.... should I get a METAL supur? or... what you guys suggest?

I can get some pictures tomorrow so you can have a better idea of what I'm talking.

thanks!!!

detail I'm using a metal Forward only conversion (robinson).

please, gimme a hand with it!

[chrisoneal]

well dont go with metal ones if ur having the same problem every time u run it if u put a metal one on ul burn something besides the spur gear so send pic and everyone on here that can help u fix ur problem

[strada001]

well dont go with metal ones if ur having the same problem every time u run it if u put a metal one on ul burn something besides the spur gear so send pic and everyone on here that can help u fix ur problem

thanks for your quick answer!

yep I'll put some pics here tomorrow... I'm going to bed now...
tomorrow I'll be up real early... (5:30)

thanks again!

[GTX]

What kind of .21 converstion is it? How much throttle are you giving it when you are stripping the spur? Also, what's the gearing and tire/wheel combo you're using?

Depending on your .21 conversion, your chassis could be flexing, causing your teeth to strip. If it's one of the better conversions, it might just be the brittle spur gears. Your next reply with the answers to my questions will help me figure out what the problem is :)

[metalry101]

Melting the center means your slipper clutch is too loose. Tighten it up, a bunch.

Stripping the teeth means you're either using too much throttle for the situation or your gear mesh is off. You could try a metal gear...but you'd probably just toast the clutchbell instead.

[savagemachine]

I would say your slipper is to loose tighten it up as far as it will go then back it of 1/8th of a turn only and try this.

As for the teeth stripping i woul say you have to much power going through the truck when on full throttle and this means that something is giving somewhere.

You have checked all your engine mount bolts and made sure everything is secure as it only need to be a mm ouit and this will strip the spurs quicker than anything.

As for changing to meatl spur gear deffy NO NO until you canget this problem sorted out of plastic ones stripping if you choose meatl it will not strip the spur you will end up replacing whole clutch instead as it will strip all this outside and internally as well try to conquer the plastic one first then when you have don ethis you can then think about the metal spur gear.

Savagemachine

[strada001]

What kind of .21 converstion is it? How much throttle are you giving it when you are stripping the spur? Also, what's the gearing and tire/wheel combo you're using?

Depending on your .21 conversion, your chassis could be flexing, causing your teeth to strip. If it's one of the better conversions, it might just be the brittle spur gears. Your next reply with the answers to my questions will help me figure out what the problem is :)


ok... I'll try to explain as best as I can...

I'm not using a .21 special conversion... I'm using a "Medium Block" OFNA/Picco .26 designed to be used with the original chassis.

how much throttle am I using? lets say... I didn't go full throttle yet...
I didn't even expent a full tank of gas.... lets say 25% to 75% of a full Throttle....
gearing I was using... for the first broken (melted) gear I was using a 72 teeth spur and a 22 teeth clutch bell and the "nut" was a little more than a quarter of turn loose.... also I had just 6 "red pegs" inside the spur gear.
on this case the spur gear had the center melted and was toothless.


yesterday I was using a 70 teeth spur gear and the same 22 teeth clutch bell... but I was using all 12 "red pegs" instead of just 6.... and the spur nut was less than a quarter loose.... and... I saw signs of melting in its center and it's completely toothless.....

guys I don't know what to do....

here are some pictures of my truck but now I'm using the .26 engine instead of the .18 fantom http://strada001.fotopages.com/?entry=424112&back=http://strada001.fotopages.com/?page=0

I'll take some pictures soon.

ow... almost forgot...

tires: old model proline road rage (not the 40 ones)

wheels: old style proline velocity

thanks guys!!

[strada001]

the first spur gear... centerless, toothless....

[strada001]

general view of the situation....

[strada001]

the "thoothless" thing....

[strada001]

a better view of the situation...

[strada001]

looks like it had started to melt ....

pieces of plastic were showing off the metal.... take a closer look...


guys, I hope we can find a solution for it... I'm tired of "wrenching" and

having NO FUN at all.....

thanks for all your help!!!

[GTX]

Are you sure you're setting the gear mesh properly? Are you putting a peice of paper between the spur and clutch bell, squishing it together, and tightening it like that? Try it like that with your slipper 1/4 turn backed off from tight.

Are you running stock ladder bars underneath? I think your chassis is flexing and/or you might not have the proper gear mesh. It might be both, so you might have to upgrade your ladder bars and your spur gear to a steel unit. But first, try to see if you got the gear mesh down and run it again.

[GTX]

If you want the best braces I've ever seen and used, get the Rix braces:

http://www.rixgear.com/rg_products_12_15_02.html

Or you can get these off ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5986214842&category=44016&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

[evaderstman]

Get the www.acncm.com brace they will help a lot.

[Joe Brinduse]

I have the same set up in my s maxx . and I never put a sper gear in :confused:

[Duster_360]

Are you sure you have the engine set so the mesh is right and the cb is parallel to the spur? If the engine is cocked just a little bit, it'll eat a spur.

If you don't have a set of metal braces under the chassis and/or a set of metal skid plates, the chassis is prob flexing. You can flex the stock chassis (with plastic braces and skids) with a high torque steering servo (no epa on your radio). I used to wonder when I put in a 645mg servo why I could see the head of the engine move back and forth as I turned the wheels side to side. The stock chassis setup is not stiff enough for your motor even for breakin.

Even if you have the mesh and alignment perfect, you may be simply overwhelming the stock slipper. The stock slipper may just not be able to handle that motor. You may need an ungraded slipper like a strobe slipper that can handle the torque from your 26. Good luck

[metalry101]

You stripped it because your gear mesh is way too loose. You can tell by how much is left. You only ripped the tops off of the teeth on the spur gear. Mesh it tighter. As for the melting thing, take your entire slipper assembly apart and make sure you're not missing anything. LOCK the slipper down. Don't tighten it all the way and then back it out, just LOCK IT DOWN. Traxxas slippers (along with HPI's, AE's, etc) don't hold a setting on something as heavy as a monster truck. It may be dialed for a little bit, but eventually the nut backs out a little and you melt the center out of the gear. Lock the slipper down as tight as you can, and set the gear mesh as tight as it will go where the spur still spins freely. Seriously, just shove the engine over until it binds, and then back it off just a touch, and by just a touch, I mean .1 mm at a time until it spins freely. It should have play, but just barely.

[strada001]

Are you sure you're setting the gear mesh properly? Are you putting a peice of paper between the spur and clutch bell, squishing it together, and tightening it like that? Try it like that with your slipper 1/4 turn backed off from tight.

Are you running stock ladder bars underneath? I think your chassis is flexing and/or you might not have the proper gear mesh. It might be both, so you might have to upgrade your ladder bars and your spur gear to a steel unit. But first, try to see if you got the gear mesh down and run it again.
yes, I always do the "paper" trick with the gears... but you may be right...
I personally don't like them "too close"... but from now on... I'll have to start doing it better...

about the braces.... I'm still using the original ones... but I have a full aluminum cover for it's center.... (duratrax) It shoudn't be this flexible I think.

but... it's time for one more upgrade... BRACES....
also... the metal spur is on the way.... but I'm not sure if I wanna use it.

thanks for now....

any new ideas, please keep posting and after I get it fixed (saturday, maybe) with new gears and a proper "MESH" I'll post here the final results.

thanks again, our BIG RC family is really cool!!

[strada001]

by the way...
thanks guys for all links you had shown me....

and... what is it?? "strobe slipper" I don't think I know it...
can you send me a link with a picture of it? (Duster 360)

thanks again!!

[Duster_360]

Here's a link with a pic. This is with the high temp pads, a "normal" set of pads is available.

http://www.crispycrittershobbyshop.com/store/product.php?productid=16239&cat=266&page=1

This is where I got mine (haven't installed yet - for OS18TM in a Dace Predator light race truck, it'll be less than 7lbs), but they've been out of stock for a while, but they have the "normal" temp pads.

http://www.unlimitedengineering.com/cgi-bin/store/scan/co=yes/fi=products/sf=prod_group/se=ST/sf=spare/se=0/op=eq/tf=category/tf=sku.html?open=

[GTX]

You can also use the RRP slipper setup. What tooth spur gear did you order by the way? Was it the kit or did it look like a steel version of the stock spur gear? Either way, you aren't going to strip a steel spur gear no matter what mesh you have...so don't worry about that.

BTW, I've heard nothing but good things about the Strobe slipper and all his products.


I forgot about the ACNCM braces - those are the best! I would get a pair of those or a new chassis if you ever get the cash. You could also try putting the spur and clutch bell all the way together and seein ghow long it lasts....haha.

[strada001]

You can also use the RRP slipper setup. What tooth spur gear did you order by the way? Was it the kit or did it look like a steel version of the stock spur gear? Either way, you aren't going to strip a steel spur gear no matter what mesh you have...so don't worry about that.

BTW, I've heard nothing but good things about the Strobe slipper and all his products.


I forgot about the ACNCM braces - those are the best! I would get a pair of those or a new chassis if you ever get the cash. You could also try putting the spur and clutch bell all the way together and seein ghow long it lasts....haha.


Hi guys!!! thanks again for all help... it's been very helpful!!
I called AMERICAN CNC and they don't have (in stock) the thick chassis they use to have for a "regular" sized T-MAXX now they're trying to focus on revo stuff.....
but I went to FAST LANE and they have a combo that I'm really interested... I just wanna know what you guys think about it???
please take a look http://www.fastlanemachine.com is the regular sized chassis with a 3 points chassis braces for 67 bucks! (+shipping I think.... let me know what you think, ok?

thanks for all your help!!!

also... I was thinking about getting some aluminum throttle servo mounts, do you think it's a good idea? LMK.

just in time! the spur gear I ordered was a RR one here is the item description from towerhobbies..... http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUD52&P=ML

see you soon!

http://www.fastlanemachine.com/images/gallery02_sm.jpg http://www.fastlanemachine.com/images/gallery05_sm.jpg

[strada001]

hey Duster 360 are you from New Jersey?? this hobby shop (CRISPY CRITTERS) is about 20 miles away from my house.
but they don't have it in stock, anyway.

thanks man!

[GTX]

Crispy Critters is an awesome hobby shop, you're lucky to live close to them :eek:

Yeah, fastlane is the company that is "copying" UE SuperMaxx. Even though their chassis is made of 6061 it does look good. So, you're on a budget, get it. Looks solid, but it will bend in a really really bad crash. Do you see yourself jumping your truck off a 70ft cliff? If not, you're good :D

Since you're doing a chassis swap, why not get bulkheads too? At least get fronts man...you'll break those the most. Also, you might want to consider their shock towers. Ooops....sorry, I was on a roll :o

[strada001]

Crispy Critters is an awesome hobby shop, you're lucky to live close to them :eek:

Yeah, fastlane is the company that is "copying" UE SuperMaxx. Even though their chassis is made of 6061 it does look good. So, you're on a budget, get it. Looks solid, but it will bend in a really really bad crash. Do you see yourself jumping your truck off a 70ft cliff? If not, you're good :D

Since you're doing a chassis swap, why not get bulkheads too? At least get fronts man...you'll break those the most. Also, you might want to consider their shock towers. Ooops....sorry, I was on a roll :o
hahah, you're excited!!!
I'm not a basher.... I just like to see it runnig as fast as I can.... and popping wheelies....

I saw their hybrid bulks they look really good... and also I read it's test & review on www.beatyourtruck.com they hold a lot abuse... their shock towers are just beautiful and functional.... but the best part is it's aluminum diff cups with 3mm screws.... but... I don't have all this money right now.... (we are talking 67.00 chassis + 60.00 2 diff cups + 120 for the hybrid bulks total of= 247 bucks + shipping)

I expent so much money on my t-maxx in the past few months I think if I had gotten a REVO as was much better served.... because I put so much money and work on the top of it.... and I didn't even get it to be running good yet.... so.... I'm pissed and stressed out with it. Thanks god I got me a JATO is the only fun I'm having lately.

[Duster_360]

strada001 - easy to spend a ton of bucks on these things, I got lucky on my Dace Predator - kit plus the shock towers cost me only $185 (should have been $290) pays to watch some of the BST forums! You do find great deals occasionally! Then on top of that a new OS18TM ($220), Dace F&R Bulks ($110) and the guts from my current fantom 18 powered Tmaxx and I'll have a sub 7lb race truck that should fly. Here's Dace's stuff -

http://www.dacemfg.com/Page.cfm?Category1=T%2DMaxx&InfoID=2293&Search=

Sometimes I wished I lived close to Crispy Critters as much money as I've dropped there, but I'm in Texas.

I've been using a set of FLM diff cup kits and they've been great - no probs. You'll have probs with the plastic diff cases twisting under the torque that your 26 puts out - you'll be shearing teeth off the ring gear in short order. If you'll put the diffs together using alum cases which will prevent the twisting the plastic ones allow, the diffs should be ok. Any alum diff cases will do - also get the alum diff collar. I thinks its the rear diff that takes the biggest beating, so at least do that one, I did both F&R - alum diff cups, alum diff cases and collars. Last thing - they need to be shimmed to get the ring/pinion gear mesh correct so they'll give you some life.

Now the only thing you need is spare drive and center shafts since you'll be twisting those apart with the power. The stock stuff will stand an 18, but you'll shread them with the 26. A set of CVDs may be in your future. I hope your trans will take the abuse or you'll be buying spares for that as well.

I don't mean to be negative, but that 26 will find every weak link in the entire drive train and after doing this for several years and reading about other's experience in dropping in a large motor - these are the kinds of things you'll prob be dealing with, so its better to be prepared than to be suprised!

Many just spend the money as they shred the various parts fixing these weak links as they find them, but unless you're a very careful driver and do no jumping, there will be some "growing" pains you'll have to go through to get to that point where you can run it without being worried about tearing something up or having to quit early after something tears up. To me, its part of the fun, I really like wrenching on these! Good luck!

[strada001]

strada001 - easy to spend a ton of bucks on these things, I got lucky on my Dace Predator - kit plus the shock towers cost me only $185 (should have been $290) pays to watch some of the BST forums! You do find great deals occasionally! Then on top of that a new OS18TM ($220), Dace F&R Bulks ($110) and the guts from my current fantom 18 powered Tmaxx and I'll have a sub 7lb race truck that should fly. Here's Dace's stuff -

http://www.dacemfg.com/Page.cfm?Category1=T%2DMaxx&InfoID=2293&Search=

Sometimes I wished I lived close to Crispy Critters as much money as I've dropped there, but I'm in Texas.

I've been using a set of FLM diff cup kits and they've been great - no probs. You'll have probs with the plastic diff cases twisting under the torque that your 26 puts out - you'll be shearing teeth off the ring gear in short order. If you'll put the diffs together using alum cases which will prevent the twisting the plastic ones allow, the diffs should be ok. Any alum diff cases will do - also get the alum diff collar. I thinks its the rear diff that takes the biggest beating, so at least do that one, I did both F&R - alum diff cups, alum diff cases and collars. Last thing - they need to be shimmed to get the ring/pinion gear mesh correct so they'll give you some life.

Now the only thing you need is spare drive and center shafts since you'll be twisting those apart with the power. The stock stuff will stand an 18, but you'll shread them with the 26. A set of CVDs may be in your future. I hope your trans will take the abuse or you'll be buying spares for that as well.

I don't mean to be negative, but that 26 will find every weak link in the entire drive train and after doing this for several years and reading about other's experience in dropping in a large motor - these are the kinds of things you'll prob be dealing with, so its better to be prepared than to be suprised!

Many just spend the money as they shred the various parts fixing these weak links as they find them, but unless you're a very careful driver and do no jumping, there will be some "growing" pains you'll have to go through to get to that point where you can run it without being worried about tearing something up or having to quit early after something tears up. To me, its part of the fun, I really like wrenching on these! Good luck!
Man! your truck gotta be sweet!!! do you have pictures of it?

I'm not the kind guy who jump a lot or hit the tracks.... just like I've said... I like to see it running FAST... and I mean FAST... 55 miles at least....

I've already gotten MIP CVD's all over it.... I'm running 3 aluminum clutch shoes (GREAT ASSEMBLY ones) .... forward only conversion.... and... I don't even know what else....

This engine is really powerful you can HEAR it when this "thing" screams out!! many guys who play with me were talking about it.... specially because I'm using a SIRIO big bore pipe to let all the power flow....

also... I love wrenching too... but... It's been a waaaay too much lately...

Thanks!!!

[Duster_360]

These guys say they have the strobe slipper in stock - remember to get the Ofna spur gear to go with it - Supposedly the best gearing is a 15t/51 using this Ofna spur and a revo 15t CB (vented). Thats with an 18, you prob want bigger CB to get that top speed you want!

http://www.rc-monster.com/search.php

This is BishopRyan' Predator - mine will be a lot like his when finished, right now its a box of parts, although the chassis, bulks, shock tower and wing are bolted together. Lot of work yet to do. BR hope you don't mind me "using" your pics! Look for post #704. My shell will be the same one, just painted diff.

http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/showthread.php?t=92578&page=29&pp=25

My FR18 Tmaxx uses the GA alum 3 shoe too, but it gets hot - I'm switching to a vented CB to let some of the heat out - I've had trouble when I shut down to re-fuel with it getting hot and making it hard to re-start (I'm in TX and sometimes I'm running when its 100F outside). Also, I'm going to try a Tiger drive this time to get rid of the weight of the ezstart system. I've got the same Sirio BB pipe and like the sound the FR18 makes with it too! I went RD Logics CVDs (full set) and they've been fine so far - found on Ebay for $65 new w/2 extra drive cups!

I bought a 27Picco last week for my Savy to play with. Will be a while before I get that put in though. Too much going on at work!

[strada001]

Duster..
your truck is gonna be sweet!! thats for sure!
man that "Predator" is a real good looking truck!!

I'm gonna hold a little to get the "STROBE" I'm going to Crispy Critters this week and I'll speak with the guys there for a possible "visual" tour on it (they probably have in one of their trucks) and I'll start from there!

I just don't wanna go crazy about it righ now.... don't wanna expend a lot of money in parts I'm not gonna use anymore.... I'll take it slow....

my question is....
I'll have to get some ofna parts in order to make the stobe slipper work, right?
Clutch bell
Spur gear
Flywheel & clutch shoes, too?

how is the "fit" for all this parts? will they fit without major "headaches"?

please, let me know.

thanks to all of you!!

[Duster_360]

We had a lightning strike on a power pole 5 houses away and have had no power for about 7 hrs - it got so hot and uncomfortable, we left and went to the mall for the last 4 hrs. Anyway, I was in the middle of eply when it hit and blitzed the power.

The strobe part of the slipper is the "guts" where the slipping actually takes place that generates the friction which causes the heat that melts stuff. The strobe goes together with the Ofna spur (nylon, plastic or metal) which is basically just the teeth - the strobe parts bolt on in the middle (3 - 3mm screws) and then I think you use the discs from the trx slipper and it assembles and adjusts like the stocker slipper from there.

I've started using vented CBs to let the clutch run cooler and get some heat away from that part of the motor. Ofna makes a good one, I'm using one of those in my Sav4.6 engine. I plan on using my GA alum 3 shoe clutch again, and you should be able to also unless it was causing probs when you were able to run it. You may need a better clutch after breakin, but you'll just have to wait and see.

Looks to me that you'll only need the strobe parts and the ofna spur gear. If you want to replace the CB, get a vented one. The CB you've been using should be good enough.

[strada001]

hi guys!!! I'm back....

I'm running my T-Maxx with a Robinson Racing 72 teeth spur gear....
man!!! it's fast, strong and.... it's destroying my clutch bell.... heheheh

anyway...
I got that STROBE adaptor... and a 51T metal spur.....
also I got a RACERS EDGE 17 teeth clutch bell to run with it... (I think 3:1 ratio is gonna be ok...)

question:
should I get one of this?
http://www.unlimitedengineering.com/cgi-bin/store/86015.html

please let me know, ok?

thanks again!

[GTX]

YES!!!


That is an awesome clutch and will work well. Make sure to read up and post on the UE forums to see if your engine mount needs to be replaced. That clutch might push the engine too far forward. Dace/UE makes an offset engine mount to fight this, but I don't know if it's needed.

[strada001]

YES!!!


That is an awesome clutch and will work well. Make sure to read up and post on the UE forums to see if your engine mount needs to be replaced. That clutch might push the engine too far forward. Dace/UE makes an offset engine mount to fight this, but I don't know if it's needed.


I'll check it out!

thanks!