Tire Technology

[NPlayer]

I was looking at getting new tires and it occured to me that our tires are pretty low tech. For instance the ballooning, and sidewall flex. Why no radials? Why not pnuematic so we don't need foam? What do you guys think?

[Chris LaPanse]

Not pneumatic because of weight - a tire that would be thick/strong enough to hold air pressure and not get punctured by the stuff we run on would add a ton of weight. Also, there are some radials (although mostly for TC's). As for sidewall flex, that can be a good thing off road - it increases the grip.

[Silent Night]

I don't understand why there aren't many radials for MT too... Most MTs nowadays can benifit from that..

[metalry101]

The biggest things killing pnuematic tires in r/c would be price and jumping. You don't see real cars jumping 30 feet in the air. When they do, the tire comes off the bead. Plus, it would drive up the cost. If you get a flat you've either gotta find someone with an air compressor, or buy one. It just wouldn't work, and it doesn't make sense. As for radials...I dunno why. Ask Pro-Line.

[Silent Night]

Full scale monster trucks have the.. But they are beadlocked.. If people carry big starterboxes, pit tables, chargers and stuff like that, why can't they carry a small hand pump?

[metalry101]

Ya, but full scale monster trucks are slow and clumsy. Ya, they accelerate in a hurry, but they're not fast, and if they pull a donut too fast the tire comes off of the bead a lot of the time.

I see your point about the hand pump. Bikers use 'em, so can r/c'er's!

[MikeWz]

I feel like that would make the truck more "bouncy". The foam acts as a shock absorber ontop of the actual shocks the truck has. Air wouldn't compress quite the same. And on top of that...how exactly do you plan on totally sealing the tires/rims?

[metalry101]

It would require major changes, and honestly, I think the drawbacks far outweight the advantages, in every aspect.

[Cotharyus]

All good information, especially Mike's observation that the trucks would be much bouncier. Believe me, the technology exists to run pnuematic tires on R/C trucks, but the benefits are far out weighed by the downsides, not the least of which is handling. Also, you'd be looking at carrying a patch kit and air pump, as suggested. Finally there's the weight thing - the tires themselves wouldn't be *that* much heavier than some of the things people run on everything but racing trucks anyhow, the problem is the weight of a true beadlock rim, which is what would pretty much have to be used on these things, because if you didn't, you'd be looking at building a rim that could handle the stress of seating a bead against a rim, which means a lot of air preasure (up to 40psi). You would then have to back that amount off to make the tires runable without being hard as a rock, and at that point, you would risk the bead pulling out every time you went around a turn. So all in all, I think the tire technology that's available to us is about where it should be.

[Grant Tokumi]

I was looking at getting new tires and it occured to me that our tires are pretty low tech. For instance the ballooning, and sidewall flex. Why no radials? Why not pnuematic so we don't need foam? What do you guys think?
I agree with you on the low tech part. Offroad Tire/rim technology is so stagnant (over 10 years old) and due for MAJOR innovation uplift. I personally think that whoever comes out with a light beadlock type rim/tire setup will be the ticket. Gluing tires..... it seems like such a regular thing, we're used to it, we accept it, but if you take a step back and look at it, IMO thats about as hack a installation procedure as you can get for an item where balance is so critical.

I believe the market is there, its an obtainable goal, and it just takes a progressive, forward-thinking minded company to do it. I can understand why the regulars like Proline, Losi, don't do it. They don't have to because we choose to pay the ridiculously high prices for these tires/foams/rim because we have no choice. Beadlock is on the right track and has had limited success. IMO, the moster truck market is a good test market because rim weight is not as critical, and I believe its product has proven itself to be functional and reliable. The next step is to create a light weight version for 10th scale and 8th scale racers.

It doesn't have to be screws to hold it together. Snap together and require a special tool to remove. Some type of twist together with a lock. I believe it can be done, just needs some innovative minds to come with with the design.

[NPlayer]

How about an inner tube? I was thinking of low pressure like they use in full size off-road. Shouldn't be too bouncy, thats what shocks are for right?

So why don't we have radials? Duct tape comes off eventually and then you're hosed, unless you have beadlocks.

[Grant Tokumi]

So why don't we have radials? Duct tape comes off eventually and then you're hosed, unless you have beadlocks.
You know, one time in an attempt to get something close to radials, I tied a loop out of fishing line and put it around the tire to help keep it from ballooning. It fit real nicely between the threads (Proline holeshots). I was surprised it lasted a whole tank full without breaking or coming off. But odd thing is that the setup didn't handle very well at all in a long fast sweeping turn where I thought it would show the most improvement. I took the line off and tried again right after and I could take that sweeper much easier.

So FWIW (maybe not worth much at all :)) based on that test, it seemed oddly that a ballooning tires was better around a fast sweeping turn.

[NPlayer]

What do you guys suppose these things are?

http://www.pantherteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=218

[Grant Tokumi]

They are basically strong rubber bands to aid in glue mounting your tires.

[NPlayer]

Grant, I agree, lightweight beadlocks would be an advancement in the tech. I believe it can be done. Why not?

Anyone know how to get HPI Nubz on a t-maxx for less than $45?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVSEARCH=87229&FVPROFIL=++&search3=Go

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKSB8&P=7

[strada001]

Grant, I agree, lightweight beadlocks would be an advancement in the tech. I believe it can be done. Why not?

Anyone know how to get HPI Nubz on a t-maxx for less than $45?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVSEARCH=87229&FVPROFIL=++&search3=Go

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKSB8&P=7
does it need to be HPI?
ofna has a 17mm conversion for T-maxxes

take a look

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXE06&P=7

hope that helps.

[NPlayer]

Thank you thats exactly what I was looking for.

[RCBASHERFREAK50]

Arent the Jumbo Kongs an example of how heavy, and how big it would be.. ok, maybe a little smaller.. but they are so full of air and rubber that you can liitterally drive your MT on a pond or lake beause it floats.....and they do make beadlockrims.... maybe airfilled tires could be out, but I'm sure they would be expensive and they wouldnt be used for hardcore racing

[MikeWz]

I feel like they couldn't really be used for anything. They won't be used for racing, because they'll be too heavy, or at least there'd be something lighter. They wouldn't be used for bashing because they'd be too bouncey. I suppose MAYBE for rockcrawling, if you make them on the verge of being flat. But that's really about it.

[moon buggy]

okay guys, I crawl and let me tell you air doesn't help, I've tried the whole sealed tire thing and it creates bad wheel-hop. Anyway someone on rccrawler put one of those air valves from a basket ball in a set of lst's, he could deflate them so there was always a flat spot or he could pump them up to a 7" diameter. I think he ended up finding that didn't help. Oh and one of you asked why there aren't cheap beadlocks, $7 a pair isn't cheap enough for you? Well those are made for a 2.2, the cheapest maxx sized are $25 a pair.

[Grant Tokumi]

Oh and one of you asked why there aren't cheap beadlocks, $7 a pair isn't cheap enough for you? Well those are made for a 2.2, the cheapest maxx sized are $25 a pair.
I don't know if someone said cheap, but I said "lightweight". Where can I find beadlocks for a 2.2"? I just searched Stormer Hobbies under Maximizer and still only see beadlocks for MT tires. I know Associated made 3 piece rims, but those are really horrible in my experience. Tires come right off at high speeds. You can even peel them off with your finger.

[moon buggy]

I don't know if someone said cheap, but I said "lightweight". Where can I find beadlocks for a 2.2"? I just searched Stormer Hobbies under Maximizer and still only see beadlocks for MT tires. I know Associated made 3 piece rims, but those are really horrible in my experience. Tires come right off at high speeds. You can even peel them off with your finger.
oops, yup I mis read that. Lightweight, hmm, yes I was talking about the associated tires, did you assemble them right, because they work perfectly, I know of one person who ripped a tire before the rim let go. And I have never had a problem with them, hell some people narrow the things and they still hold up. Anyway, I think they are light; fully mounted with a set of m2k's weighs in at 1 1/4 lbs. just as light if not lighter than any other tire & rim combo I've tried. The same thing scaled up would work fine with the big trucks, with some work you can make any wheel a beadlock. For instance, take any wheel and buy some pvc, or abs pipe (i'd use pvc, more flexible) and glue some rings to the face and back of the wheel, cut it in two. Put a ring inside the tire, just under the width of the outer bead, and clamp the wheel onto it. Not a full step by step, but you understand what I am getting at.

[quicklimegirl]

M/T tires are pnumatic! Squish one and you will hear air pushed out the vent holes. Let go and the tire reinflates with atmospheric pressure. A great shock absorbsion bonus also.

[Grant Tokumi]

Does that mean a rubber ducky is also pneumatic? :)

[quicklimegirl]

Not in the bathtub!!!

[Grant Tokumi]

did you assemble them right, because they work perfectly, I know of one person who ripped a tire before the rim let go. And I have never had a problem with them, hell some people narrow the things and they still hold up.

Well, I was going to give the Associated 3 piece rims another shot so I happened to have a pair. Here are the pictures, showing how easily I can peel the tire right off with my fingers. I peeled one section, and then did another section just as easily while shooting pictures in the process of it peeling off.
Assembly before any peeling
http://www.rcarchive.com/pics/2005/tire01.jpg

http://www.rcarchive.com/pics/2005/tire02.jpg

http://www.rcarchive.com/pics/2005/tire03.jpg

Start the peel:
http://www.rcarchive.com/pics/2005/tire04.jpg

http://www.rcarchive.com/pics/2005/tire05.jpg

http://www.rcarchive.com/pics/2005/tire06.jpg

Does your set of tires not peel off as easily as mine did? The mounting process is pretty straight forward, and any mis-mounting would be visible. Perhaps I am missing something?

I believe the problem is that the rim design prevents you from really screwing the rim down to clamp the tire tight. And I can understand why because clamp much further and you do risk turning the rim into a circular scissors that can snip the tire right off. Thats why IMO, while this is a beadlock rim, it is not a functional one. A better one could be designed if enough brainpower was put into it.

And I agree with you that the weight difference between this and a 1 piece rim is probably not really significant. If a truly functional beadlock (to my satisfaction) was available and did not show a visible/feelable impact to acceleration due to extra weight, I would go with it.

[DCLXVI]

It's beacause you're trying it with a Losi tire ;)

Seriously though, that wheel looks horrible...

[moon buggy]

wow, I just tried that and it happened to me. I guess I never have had a problem because I use 'em to crawl, and have never subjected them to centrifual loads. One more thing you might want to try, you know the nubs that help align the wheel, cut those off, and shave the other side down to where the nubs used to end, next cut the middle ring the same amount, if memory serves it is about 1/8", once that is done you have effectivly narrowed the rim, and the screws will stick out the back far enough to put on locknuts and really clamp that wheel together. Here I'll find the pics from another board.
http://www.datascape.net/crawler/images/beadlock1.jpg
http://www.datascape.net/crawler/images/beadlock4.jpg

[moon buggy]

oh and about turning the rim into a circular scissors, maybe try this on an old tire first.

[NPlayer]

I just got back from trying out my new HPI Nubz tires. Holy smokes! These things rock. Way better accelleration, and better grip than with bowties. The internal ribs do keep them from balloning. I am very happy with them. The performance of the truck was so much better! Just proves how much room there is for advancement in Tire Technology. Proves it to me anyway.

[NPlayer]

Sorry if I souded a little too fanboy-like, but they're impressive. You'll see.

[MikeWz]

Sorry if I souded a little too fanboy-like, but they're impressive. You'll see.
Maybe they're not necessarily "more advanced", just more suited for the conditions that you're running on. You have to keep in mind each tread/compound is meant for differer surface conditions

[NPlayer]

True, but for most tracks I think they'll kick ass. The main advantage is the reduction in rotating mass. You know how people take out reverse to reduce rotating mass? It's like doing that multiplied by about 5.

[Grant Tokumi]

True, but for most tracks I think they'll kick ass. The main advantage is the reduction in rotating mass. You know how people take out reverse to reduce rotating mass? It's like doing that multiplied by about 5.
Is this tire you are referring to lighter than other tires which creates this significant "reduction in rotating mass"?

[NPlayer]

Correct, look them up and you'll see why.

[Grant Tokumi]

because they are more narrow than normal MT size tires/wheels?
http://www.hpi-europe.com/piw.php?partNo=4925&lang=en

I agree that would make a significant difference. And I also agree that this proves there is much room for improvement in the tire department. At least HPI is thinking in that direction and offering different options.