Help me pick out a RC plane for a newbie

[debosteebo]

just want to know if anyone knows a good basic, electronic, rc plane for sale. how much do these thigns go for rtr?

[debosteebo]

about how long does the Firebird XL stay in the air for with 1 fully charged battery pack? do you have an estimate of the furthest distance the radio and the plane can go up to? thanks

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: debosteebo ]

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: debosteebo ]

[atm92484_3]

If you have a club field available where they run gas airplanes and someone will teach you, I'd highly reccomend you get one of these and forget those cheap electric ones. However, if there isn't a club field available to fly at then these electric ones are good since the gas ones must be flown at a field for safety reasons.

[XXXER]

They will fly for 15nCliutes, as for the distance, I have no idea!

[draggerman11]

XXXER, do you have any links?

[ReMeDy]

Are there any computer simulators for flying r/c planes?

[Jo_bomb17]

Yes!there are some simulation flying computer programs!But i do warn, they arnt cheap!I think the cheapest ive ever seen it is like 80 bux! :eek:
Here are some links to some! :D http://www.towerhobbies.com/promos/01so/kyoa1235.html a GOOD affordable plane!
heres a flight sim!NOT CHEAP! http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/gpmz4000tw1.html
uhh, heres another good plane, http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?Q=1&I=LXB381&P=7

Some good info in sarting in Rc planes
"The Best Way to Get Started in R/C Planes"

Today's selection of R/C airplanes at Hobby stores is huge. With so many to choose from, picking the right one for you can be difficult. The following info is written to give you the inside scoop; what to look for when you choose your next (or first) airplane.

Keep this one thing in mind: unless we've made a special combo for you, all planes (whether kits, ARC's or ARF's) will require the purchase of a radio and engine separately.

Money Saving Combos
Whatever type of plane you choose-trainer, sport, fun-fly, or scale-you want the most for your dollar. To help you get the highest possible value for your money, we have assembled the best combinations of planes, radios and engines to get you started on the right track right away.
o, that is from hobby people!

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Rustler Hustler ]

[XXXER]

The cheapest way I have seen from working at a hobby shop to get into the RC Plane business, is the Hobby Zone "Firebird" and "Firebird XL". The Firebird runs for 100$, and the XL runs for 120$. We have sold HUNDREDS of these planes in the last few months, whenever we get them in, (which is usually about 6 of them a week) they are gone in a matter of days. The Firebird is a hand launch, where you belly it in to land it, the XL has landing gear. The planes are completely ready to go, just put on the front wing, charge the included battery, and stick 8 double A's(not included) in the 2 channel radio, and you are off!

The Firebird comes with 2 batteries that are 4.8V, the XL comes with 1 7.2V battery. I suggest you get the XL, it is bigger, and overall better, and faster. Mind you, you will not be doing barrel rolls, or loopty-loops with these little guys, but you will have a blast with them in a big park. Pick up an extra pack, should you choose the XL, and get an extra set of wings, while you are at it.
Any more questions on these, just ask!
-Steve

[lockedINgood]

I have the Firebird XL, I got it for tmy Bday and well broken. I have to say there not very durable but good for a beginner. I took off and then as I was coming down to land the battery went dead and broke my fusalodge and wing. I was only 10 feet in the air when this happened.

[atm92484_3]

I hate to break this to you, but 10 feet in the air will destroy a gas RC plane. I guess you got lucky...plus you might be able to buy parts for that plane and fix it.

[KC10Chief]

I've flown RC planes for years. I have around 20 of them now. I'be built, and flown just about every type of plane there is out there. Trainers, fun-fly's, pattern, aerobatic, ducted fan, and a helicopter. My advice to you would be to avoid those cheap crappy electric planes. If you go out and fly it by yourself, I can guarantee you that you will break if not destroy it. Gas planes are much better in my opinion. I'm sure most RC pilots will agree. If the long run, it's a lot cheaper for gas planes. If you can tune a nitro engine on an RC car, you can definately tune an airplane engine. They're a piece of cake to tune. Especially OS engines. Anyways, Sig makes an excellent trainer called the LT-40. Tower Hobbies makes a nice trainer, and so does Great Planes. I would recommend that you get a .40 size trainer with a regular OS .40LA bushing engine. They cost about 55 bucks. Get a 4 channel Futaba or Tower Hobbies radio. I think you can get them for around 65 to 80 dollars. The plane will be about 100 bucks. You DEFINATELY need to get an ARF kit. ARF = Almost REady to Fly. These planes come almost totally built. All you have to do is glue the wing halves together, glue on the horizontal and vertical stabs, hook up your radio and engine, and you will be good to go. Get some airplane fuel too. I wouldn't recommend using fuel for your cars. aircraft engines spin around 11 to 15K RPM's and car engines turn around 30K. If you buy an airplane kit that you have to totally build, it will be cheaper, but by the time you buy all the hardware, and there is a lot of hardware, you have to buy building materials, covering, an iron to put the covering on, you will spend more than you would on an ARF kit. Another advantage of an ARF kit is that if you crash it, and you will crash, you won't feel so horrible. Would you rather wreck something that you spent one evening putting together, or something you spent two months putting together? I have been through this before and it's a bad thing to watch a months work turn into balsa dust. Once you get better, you will crash less and less. Most crashes are minor and you can usually take it home and fix it in an hour or two if you can't fix it at the field. But everybody has a doozie in they're RC piloting experiences. I haven't crashed due to pilot error in a few years, but I've had mechanical failures, been shot down (somebody on the same frequency turning their radio on), and have had a few midair collusions. They're cool to watch unless it's your plane. I had a midair this summer with my favorite plane. My wife had bought it for me for Christmas of 99. I was flying along and never saw the other guy coming. The planes met head on and both of them exploded into splinters. The other guys plane was on it's maiden flight. But if you can avoid crashing for the most part, it's way cheaper than RC cars. Any damage you do can be fixed with scrap wood left over from kits you put together. I have a whole closet filled with scrap wood, covering, parts, etc. Another thing you need to do, is join the AMA or Academy of Model Aeronautics. It's 48 dollars a year unless you're under 19 years of age and I can't remember the exact price, but it's under 20 a year. You get a magazine subscription with it and it also covers you up to several million dollars in insurance in case you fly your plane into somebody's house, car, their head, etc. No club will let you fly without it. And that's next. You MUST join a club. They will teach you to fly for free. When it's all said and done, you have an airplane that's ready to fly, you've joined the AMA and a club, you will have spent around 400 dollars maybe 450. If you don't join a club, just take 300 dollars and flush it down the toilet instead of buying a plane with it. I guarantee you can't teach yourself to fly. If you try, you will wreck it. Save yourself the time and money and join a club. They can also show you important safety stuff. RC planes can hurt you a lot easier than your car can. I've sliced a finger open really badly once. Anyways, if you want to fly, don't waste your time and money on one of those crappy electric park flyers. They don't fly good, they don't fly for long, and you will be much happier with a gas plane. You just need to get a high wing trainer. Good luck! Matt

[Jo_bomb17]

Very well spoken matt! :D

[Zedstr]

hey, i don't think he wants to learn how to take off or land it. he just wants to fly horizontal! hmm.. poor taste. ;)

[Wings]

Drats...I can't agree. I can actually fly an electric trainer (Soarstar; rudder/elevator/throttle) without assistance, never had an instructor, don't fly at a club, and have never crashed. Sorry guys. I guess I'm just lucky. :)

I don't know what's wrong with electrics. They keep getting better all the time, and their slower flight seems to allow more response time for us beginners. I'm only a beginner at this (less than 1 yr.), but I can't see why anyone would want to diss electrics.

I love being able to fly at places other than a designated airfield. Even the airfield I visit occasionally (not a member, do not fly there) has been issued restrictions (noise, flight path, etc.) because of disgruntled neighbors! Poor guys...

I have nothing against IC...in fact, I think they're fascinating! I enjoy watching them when I get the chance. And I agree that you need an instructor to learn to fly IC. Those planes are much faster than electric trainers.

Truth be told, electric and IC are two entirely different flying styles. But there's a reason the r/c world is rapidly acknowledging us park flyer folks, so I suggest you explore both worlds and decide what YOU think and like.

For now, I'll be at the high school football field, lazily buzzing around and having a great time. And those unsuspecting bystanders who happen to stop by make it all the more enjoyable...

Wings

[HauntedMyst]

Ever since these Firebird XL, and other "park" flyers have become available, they have been causing huge problems at the "real" rc plane fields around here.

It seems that lots of people who buy these have no clue about frequency issues and oftern fly them in parks near real rc airfields. They don't realize that their park flier mybe on the same frequency as another remote control plane. As a result, people are losing control of their airplanes and crashing hundred dollar airplanes.

If you get one of these, go to flying field and observe the regulations.

[rjb]

Just to what HM said, I've also seen RTF electric planes out there that come with a radio on the same frequency as those designated for RC Cars - specifically some 27Mhz models. I'm kinda surprised that they allow manufacturers to do this, but it can cause frequency issues too.

EDIT:
An example would be the Air-O-Commander from Cox available at Tower. It says it comes with a 27.045 Mhz radio. That's channel 2 for cars on the 27Mhz band.

EDIT:
I came accross this link somewhere to a free simulator. I haven't tried it myself, but here it is.
http://simulator.home.pages.de

[Wings]

There aren't that many park flyers that use the 27MHz band, primarily inexpensive ones marketed only to beginners.

Plenty of electrics use the 72MHz band, which is the band my radio uses. I prefer 72MHz for the variety of gear available and the safety of not using r/c car frequencies (you think park flyers are popular...).

There have been many, many discussions on the topic of what park flyers should use, lots more than I could ever repeat (and I'll spare everyone the torture). Many suggestions and solutions have been offered, but none widely implemented that I know of.

Perhaps the best thing that you can do if you fear someone is flying too close to your field would be to invite them over. They'll probably be thrilled to know you're there, and be willing to check out your field. Just be prepared for many to say no thanks to paying hefty dues and submitting to any groups on an ego power trip.

BTW, getting shot down does go both ways. I'd feel just as bad losing my park flyer as anyone else about their plane. And if you're concerned about an expensive airplane, why not get a scanner to check for interference before you fly? You could just as easily shoot me down as I could you. Radios show no partiality.

In my case, I invested about $600 to get started in park flying, study the forums all the time, and would be just sick if someone shot me down. That's why I checked around for clubs and look for other planes in the area before I fly. :) And $600 is a BIG investment for me.

I suggest you consider how you can encourage park flyers to fly safely. Electrics enable many of us budget-minded folk to try our wings without the hassle of finding and joining clubs. Many of us will probably go on to fly more advanced aircraft, but we won't have any interest in joining your clubs if you treat us like toys.

That's my .02.

Wings

[HauntedMyst]

Around here (chicago) all the fields are on Forest Preserve property which is public land. The only fees required are AMA memebership for the insurance. Most of the people picking up the park flyers aren't nearly as knowledgable as you are Wings, and really if their flying them in areas other then RC fields, the blame for the crashes belongs more to the manufacturers and the hobby shops.

Most of the people picking these up are getting them mail order or at hobby stores and I'm sure they aren't being educated on what happens when they turn on the transmitter, heck, their just excited and want to see them fly. I would be too. The manaufactureres need to print the warnings every where on the box and manual and the sales people at the LHS should be educating them as well.

While you might feel sad you broke a wing on your park flier (most of the ones I've seen are pretty durable), imagine if you were the guy who spent all winter building a $2000 twin engine Phantom F4 and watched it go down because some one didn't bother to read or observe the instructions on their $100 park flyer.

[Wings]

True...there are many who haven't done their homework. I hope they bought Firebird XL's too! 27MHz plane.

Yeah, $2000 is alot to watch plow into terra firma. But if he's got $2K to put into one plane, he's got a little left over for the scanner too, right?

I know, the fear is that Mr. Ignorant is gonna turn on his radio while Mr. 2K is in the air. That's where the problem is, right?

I saw a post once from a guy who did some research, and according to him it wouldn't be that easy to shoot down another plane as we've described. It's easy for two guys at a field to do, because their proximity to the plane is nearly equal, thus the rx gets two signals of similar strength. But if Mr. Ignorant is 1/2 a mile away, the theory is that his radio must be closer to the plane than the pilot's...and that's assuming their radios are of equal power. I don't know how good most IC radios are. I've never looked into the matter. I do know that most radios for park flyers have an estimated range of 1000ft., some as far as 1,500ft. and many as little as 500ft. That of course does vary with the rx used, and so I guess in theory the radios could have a larger range. You can calculate your own numbers.

I still don't think the money is the big issue. Most park flyers I know saved as hard for the $100 as the pro for his $2K, and each puts lots of value in his prize. It's like a $50K BMW vs. a $10K Ford Focus (just theory...don't quote me on those numbers!): both cars are valued by their owners, no matter who paid more.

The issue, as you well described, is ignorance. And the best known solution at this point is in fact in the hands of manufacturers and hobby shops. But can we trust them to risk losing a sale to prevent an accident? If yes, by all means support them!

BTW, there is some good news. Those inexpensive electrics that you refer to almost always use the 27MHz band! Most 72MHz systems require a larger investment of time and money, which does help discourage folks from buyin' and flyin' (a big source of your interference worries).

Also, my radio (which I had to purchase in addition to the plane) is a Hitec Flash 5X, and it has numerous warnings about operation and use in the manual. Anyone dumb enough to use it without consulting the manual or good experience won't need to be shot down anyhow...they'll finish themselves off in no time.

Still, I think there will always be some risk of being shot down. To go up is to risk coming down incorrectly. The task is to minimize the risk by maximizing safety, all without reducing opportunity. What's the best way to do it?

Wings