New MGM controller design [Archive]

TimisTim

08-16-2005, 02:41 PM

All of the new MGM controllers will feature vertical motor and battery wires! They also have a car friendly case and heatsink design. I was going to say something last week but wanted to get mine first so they didn't get bought up form Mike at rcmonster.com I have the new 16016 on the way so I'll let you guys know how it looks and performs. I hated the older shrink wrap design that would let debris and water in very easily.

Heres a pic of the new controllers.....

tcolesen

08-16-2005, 03:58 PM

Do tell us how you like how it performs! Right now I am less likely to buy an MGM controller because all of the prices have gone up.

TimisTim

08-16-2005, 04:47 PM

Yeah I had noticed that the prices jumped. That just means that if I choose to sell my 12012 I can get a few bucks more :p

$265 is still very good for a controller that has 160amp and 16 cell/5s lipo capabilities. I also heard something not to long ago about a newer software? Or am I thinking about Schulze.........or was it both? :confused:

tcolesen

08-17-2005, 05:13 AM

The MGM controllers did get a software upgrade. They now have the option to have "prop brake" or no brake unless you push forward past neutral (like normal). The U-Force also got new software (is that what you are thinking of?).

TimisTim

08-17-2005, 11:24 PM

Yeah I had heard of the version 4 software for the UF75, but not the prop brake for the mgm. What does the prop brake do?

tcolesen

08-17-2005, 11:40 PM

That is the thing where if you let the throttle go down from full (or other above neutral) it uses the brake instead of coasting. It is called prop brake because this is a feature with airplane controllers. The new MGMs have prop brake and coasting, so this "big" problem with the MGMs is gone!

TimisTim

08-18-2005, 02:38 AM

The "problem" is gone?! Very good news. I didn't mind it to much on my 12012, but it would definetly not do on a racetrack. My 16016 should be here within the week so I'll see and let you people know first.

vad

08-18-2005, 09:25 AM

Is there a way to tell which version ESC the unit is, some type of code or design?

tcolesen

08-18-2005, 10:04 AM

Well, the newer ones come in a new case design. Other than that, there might only be the software version that would be different.

glassdoctor

08-18-2005, 11:08 AM

Actually, for racing there is still another huge "problem" unless they adressed it also.

There NEEDS to be a forward-only option so we can properly set up a drag brake. Or at the very least there needs to be a reverse delay... like 2-3 seconds after full stop, or a like 5 seconds minimum.

If they don't make a fix for this, then MGMs are pretty much worthless for serious racing. Nitro buggies have a HUGE advantage in braking/cornering setup with the current software.

tcolesen

08-18-2005, 11:48 AM

True, MGM does need to make some changes for their controllers to be usable for racing. But for the average basher, this new design is a huge improvement over the older one, and will suffice.

vad

08-18-2005, 01:31 PM

So what is a good controller for Racing?

tcolesen

08-18-2005, 01:44 PM

The Schulze U-Force is the best 1/10 controller out there. Unfortunately (for some, including me) it has a rather high price of $280.

masterdummy

08-18-2005, 05:31 PM

you are right! the u-force is expensive but not as bulky as other car controllers and has excellent brakes so far I am very happy with my shulze/lehner combo (I was a no brakes brushed motor racer) but brushless at least the lehner basic 5300 has no drag at all you need brakes! it has great torque and top speed I am very impress...

Rtsbasic

08-18-2005, 08:18 PM

The Mtroniks Genesis controllers are very, very good racing controllers. Very smooth with good brakes. At least as good as the U-Force (except they can't drive brushed motors as well..but thats no concern to a lot of people). I've seen them being used for club racing a lot over here (not legal to race with at national level yet, but neithers a U-Force, or any sensorless kit yet), and are very popular for RC motorbikes in the UK as well.

tcolesen

08-18-2005, 09:19 PM

Mtroniks controllers won't work for most people in the U.S. I just did some pricing of them, and because of the conversion rates right now, even the 40amp "Sport" controller costs $180. The 80amp "Truck" one costs $287! I am sure that these controllers aren't as hefty to the wallet over in the UK. I would like to buy one myself, but these prices are just too much.

TimisTim

08-19-2005, 02:38 PM

Alright my 16016 controller showed up! From first impressions it is a little dissapointing. It still has the open design that allows debris and moisture in but even more so now because there is no shrink wrap but still bare computer boards. There heat sink design is pretty cool but they are slotted radiator style and the one on the bottom does not make it possible to use velcro or double sided tape because there is nothing flat to stick it to! Pretty big controller just a little taller than a UF75. Does not come with plugs, and this is with a cost of $268/w shipping!

Here is what really makes me angry......

I solder everything up and shrink wrap it. Hook it up to my new MX-3 rx/tx, and feigao 8s motor. All things I have used before and they work fine. I adjust all my trims to zero and 100% on all the steering and throttle epa's. All the controller does is roll out error beeps! It wont even program correctly! I have tried two different motors and radio rx/tx combos and the same thing happens. Steering works fine. I had this same thing happen on my 12012 and I thought I must have screwed it up some how. So I ordered this controller only to find out it is something else.

I started to read there instructions on why this could happen and figured it was an overvoltage error because the default is NIMH/NICD and I had a 3s lipo on it. Though I did set up my 12012 on the 3s lipo and it ran fine for about a week then started doing the above stated problem.

So any suggestions.....I haven't even been able to drive it yet! :mad:

Rtsbasic

08-19-2005, 04:47 PM

Sorry I have no suggestions for your problem. Do you have any NIMH packs you could try configuring it with? Sounds like the re-design is actually a step in the wrong direction so far.

On a slightly offtopic note concerning the Mtroniks controllers, tcolesen your right it works out good priced over here - espically when comprared to brushed stuff (the pro controller which does about 70-75a constant works out about $30 cheaper than LRP's current top of the line brushed ESC. The "Plasma Pro" controller/motor combo is £70 cheaper than the LRP Sphere/Neo One combo). Its a shame compared to other controllers its not economical to import one from the UK to the US, because you guys are missing out on a really nice unit. Ah well, back to on topic :)

poconoblmaxx

08-19-2005, 08:21 PM

Nooooo!! I just ordered the new 80 amp controller. :mad: I'm gonna have a fit if its open like the 160.

TimisTim

08-19-2005, 11:08 PM

I have some NIMH packs and plugged them in to check but it still does the same thing.

Edit: I have been messing around with my controller setting and can get it to come on sometimes but it wont be in the neutral position. The wheels start to turn and I can get them to stop through my settings but then when I try to program it the full throttle position isn't noticed so it wont enter into programming mode! Ahhhhh someone has to have delt with this before? It just seems that it is a very touchy controller with epa's and throttle positions. Im charging a NIMH battery now to see if it was a voltage thing.

I wouldn't mind if I could just get it into programming mode so I could adjust it to a 3s lipo instead of the NIMH/NICD.

SpEEdyBL

08-20-2005, 01:58 PM

Be sure you apply max throttle immediatly after turning on the controller, and not simultaniously. If that doesn't work, try doing the opposite of what it tells you to do (use full reverse when it says to use full forwards throttle and vise versa.) Ever since I resoldered the wires on my 120 amp controller, I had to program it like that. I don't know why. I never moved any wires or changed any settings on my radio.

TimisTim

08-20-2005, 04:17 PM

I usually hold the tx in full throttle as it says before turning on the controller. I have tried it backwards also but it still does not seem to notice the neutral position. Still has trouble programming, as in I cant get past step 3. It just stops accepting input and the LED light shuts off.

tomato_dance

08-20-2005, 04:59 PM

I was saving up to buy one of these, I think I'll pass. I do appreciate you sharing you results TimisTim

TD

TimisTim

08-20-2005, 05:46 PM

I actually have had some success. I have it running now (All I did was plug in a batt...3s lipo and it runs fine?!?!?!?). It still is not set up for lipo so I have to watch the runtimes. Im afraid to touch it though.

Dont let my experiences deter you from buying one of these. I am just a drop in the bucket. CharlieS (Novak) once told me that forums are mostly where people go to complain about products instead of praising them. In other words there is alot more negative info about products than positive. This just happens to be where people go to for advice on problems. Mike at rcmonster.com is offering me some counceling on my controller so I will see if he can figure it out. He has been running his in an E-Revo since they came out with no problems.

Okay now for the updated review.....

Very powerfull controller. Seems to put the power of higher voltages out better than my UF75 does. Still is not setup correctly so it has a default lag time to hit full power. Which is not a bad thing because it lets me control my MT2 better, but once the power comes on full it just spins the tires like crazy. Got a little hot (no fan yet), but this is Texas heat right now so that was expected. This controller has less cogging than my UF75 on the same exact setup. Braking issues still exist and the brakes are nowhere near as good as a UF75. Reverse software needs some work, it just kicks in at low speeds sometimes.

All in all I would give this controller a B-. It is an awesome bashing controller for the price, but stick to the 12012 unless you really are in need of 16 cells or 5s lipo.

Oh yeah one more thing.....I ripped off the on/off switch when it got caught in my drivetrain :o :( :mad: So now it just stays on like my UF75. Im an idiot sometimes.

poconoblmaxx

08-22-2005, 04:45 PM

Well I got the 80 amp version today. Its the same as the others, all open. Useless for offroad vehicles.

TimisTim

08-23-2005, 02:52 AM

I am going to try a silicone caulking around the case and boards. It may waterproof it altogether. If you have the older design then it may be even easier because all you have to do it squirt it in the ends of the shrink wrap.

I have to check for the electrical conductivity of the silicone though. Don't want to short anything out! ;)

tcolesen

08-23-2005, 10:56 AM

As long as the caulking isn't at all electrically conductive, there shouldn't be any problems with sealing it up! There are heatsinks, so heat can be taken away. I would worry about sealing up the older MGMs, though. Their "heatsinks" may suffer (but you never know).

cart213

09-21-2005, 08:30 AM

TimisTim

09-21-2005, 12:47 PM

BobNovak

09-23-2005, 07:46 PM

Not yet but it should be very easy. I haven't had the time to run to home depot to check out their silicone selection. I have some batteries that I bought off here that have a green silicone on them.

so OptimaMan if you read this let me know what silicone you use on your batts.

I also have a brand new UF75 for $200, never ran. I bought a new one because my others where in Germany and they were taking to long. So now I have seven controllers, but only three cars/trucks! I would consider a trade for a couple 3S lipos.
TimisTim. Be VERY CAREFUL with the type of silicone sealent that you use. If the silicone smell's like vinager DO NOT USE IT. This type of silicone uses acidic acid as the catalist and will destroy any electronics that you use it on. There are silicone sealents that are specific for electronics and can be picked up at your local electronics store.
Bob Novak

TimisTim

09-23-2005, 10:35 PM

Yeah I am going to be very careful. Thanks for the tip. You wouldn't happen to know the name of a silicone for electronics would you?

GordonFreeman

09-26-2005, 02:06 AM

Are the Profi Line MGM car controllers programmable with the USB connector?

TimisTim

09-26-2005, 04:54 PM

The newer design controllers are. I don't know what a Profi is. My 16016 has the port on it. Now I need to find out who sells the cable.

The PC cable makes a huge difference on my UF75's.

tcolesen

09-26-2005, 06:20 PM

As far as I know, the newer MGM controllers aren't ready for computer hook-up, but when the software is ready they can be sent in to get the update.

TimisTim

09-26-2005, 06:54 PM

They need to catch up to the design then. I thought it was promising that they would include a port on the controller, but there isn't a cable or software yet?

tcolesen

09-26-2005, 06:59 PM

I think they just wanted to get some controllers out that would be computer-capable in a future upgrade. It makes sense, as they need to get money somehow ;).

standard_63

09-30-2005, 05:51 PM

Hopefully I'll get my 16016 wired up this weekend -- wish me luck!

WheelNut

10-01-2005, 09:51 PM

I wonder if the 12012 I sent in to be fixed a few weeks ago will get this new design....I sure hope not! The old one worked really well for me, it was a perfect fit in my T4.

tcolesen

10-01-2005, 11:20 PM

Don't expect to hear from MGM! I sent in my old style MGM 12012 for repair back in mid August. After about 5 emails, I have not heard ANYTHING from them.

WheelNut

10-02-2005, 05:42 AM

Well I sent mine back through icare-rc, so hopefully they will be able to sort everything out for me. Although I certainly do not have much faith in them. :mad: Oh well I've got a Novak coming in tommorow which should be awsome!

tdkclass

10-02-2005, 08:58 AM

I sent my MGM 120 there at 1.8., they apparently received it at 8.8. got it back this thursday.
About 8-9 weeks.
It's not like BK-Elektronics was any faster, sent them a broken controller a week earlier. ;/

OptimaMan

10-02-2005, 10:19 AM

I used silicone tape with polyvinylsiloxane squirted into the ends of the batts or my escs. The good thing about polyvinylsiloxane is that it forms a watertight seal, but could be removed easily when needed to.

TimisTim

10-02-2005, 03:05 PM

Dentistry silicone? What viscosity do you use?

Muck

10-06-2005, 01:12 AM

I just got a MGM 160 for my hyper 7 conversion that I am collecting parts for. I have most of the parts to convert soon.

It is amazing how open the design of the MGM 160 is. You can see almost all the way through if you look in the end with the caps. It looks like it would be hard to seal up around the caps and also where you plug in the battery and motor wires.

I'm going to be running in mostly dirt so I'm also looking for a way to seal it. Could you use the conformal coating stuff to seal it up? I also thought about putting it in a small plastic box with some good vent holes and a fan.

OptimaMan

10-06-2005, 01:19 AM

I used low viscosity so it would flow around all the nook and crannies. Don't overdo it though - you don't want to insulate it so much so it can't cool off.

TimisTim

10-06-2005, 02:52 AM

I just ordered some, cost me $30! I had to buy it though as Im starting to buy single cell lipos and build my own packs.

I'll shoot some into my 16016 just to cover the boards from dirt. Its got some good heatsinks so Im not to worried about heat building up.

The box and fan technique has been used by crawlers before so it would work Im sure.

e_lm_70

10-06-2005, 04:15 AM

I also have a brand new UF75 for $200, never ran. I bought a new one because my others where in Germany and they were taking to long. So now I have seven controllers, but only three cars/trucks! I would consider a trade for a couple 3S lipos.

Hi Tim,

Where have you found a UF75 for 200$ ????

Thanks

e_lm_70

Muck

10-06-2005, 11:58 AM

I just ordered some, cost me $30!

Did you order conformal epoxy or polyvinylsiloxane?

TimisTim

10-06-2005, 05:49 PM

Polyvinylhoosamajig. Also some shrink wrap thats made for sub-c packs but I figure I can squeeze it over my 3s lipo's.

cart213

10-06-2005, 07:00 PM

Where did you buy the polyvinylsiloxane?

OptimaMan

10-06-2005, 07:18 PM

Hey guys, don't *BUY* that stuff. It's expensive! I only use it cuz I happen to have it lying around!

Muck

10-06-2005, 08:10 PM

Is conformal epoxy right for sealing up this ESC? There is an article at offshore electric's site on using conformal epoxy. (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/MainPage.htm) . Go to tips and info and then water proofing tips. You can buy it there or I found it here (http://www.bindingsource.com/items.asp?cat1ID=30&cat1Name=Adhesives&cat2ID=&cat2Name=&cat3ID=&cat3Name=&familyID=7&familyName=3M%99+Scotch%2DWeld%99+DP+Epoxy+Adhesiv es) it is 3M dp 270.

Muck

10-06-2005, 08:14 PM

If the MGM controller is a boat controller it should be coated already, but is it? It doesn't look like it.

TimisTim

10-07-2005, 09:54 AM

Hey guys, don't *BUY* that stuff. It's expensive! I only use it cuz I happen to have it lying around!

Haha, yeah but it is good insurance for a $265 controller and expensive lipos. So I dont mind to much.

The MGM is not a boat controller per se, it does have prop braking but I dont think they imagined it to be used like that.

Muck

10-07-2005, 10:48 AM

Haha, yeah but it is good insurance for a $265 controller and expensive lipos. So I dont mind to much.

The MGM is not a boat controller per se, it does have prop braking but I dont think they imagined it to be used like that.

That's weird because mine says CAR-BOAT on both the package and the controller itself, but maybe it's mostly a car controller. One good thing about having the unit so open is that you could shake or blow all the dirt out. LOL! Pebbles could be a problem though, not to mention shorts circuits.