View Full Version : Schulze U-Force 75 ESC and Plettenberg Extreme!!!
Craps
08-21-2005, 08:55 PM
The Schulze U-Force 75 ESC and Plettenberg Extreme Brushless Motor Systems finished 1st thru 5th, with a Novak 5800SS in 6th and another Schulze/Plett system in 7th in a Big Pro Truck Trophy Race at Nitro Valley Raceway in Cherryville, NC today. With a 20 minute main as true test of this system using 8000 mah li-pos, this is the best system money can buy for a 1/10th scale 2wd Stadium Truck!
I even hooked up the Schulze U-Force 75 ESC to a stock 27 turn brushed motor that I was happier with than my Duratrax ESC. The Schulze did not drop off during a 5 minute run like the Duratrax did.
For more info or to purchase this great system, contact Jamie at www.starluckrc.com
Shame the motor doesn't conform to ROAR,IFMAR,EFRA and BRCA regulations :p
TheSteve
08-22-2005, 03:40 AM
20 minute electric main with no battery changes, so very cool...
masterdummy
08-22-2005, 07:38 AM
Shame the motor doesn't conform to ROAR,IFMAR,EFRA and BRCA regulations :p
perhaps it is just too good of a system that it doesn't comply to some :mad:
perhaps it is just too good of a system that it doesn't comply to some :mad:
That combo is $455 vs $240 for the GTB & $275 for the hv-maxx. IT doesn't comply with my wallet :)
kufman
08-22-2005, 08:08 AM
With 20 minute mains it is pretty obvious that the rules don't matter in this event.
Yes, I realize that. My comment was to warn other that they may have problems in the future with eligibility. I personally would like burshless to become mainstream. But with hundreds of wacky systems with all sort of strange specifications it will not help.
Craps
08-22-2005, 09:29 AM
That combo is $455 vs $240 for the GTB & $275 for the hv-maxx. IT doesn't comply with my wallet :)
But when you send those Novak systems back for repair about 3 times and have to have a back up systems while yours is back to Novak for repairs that makes that cheaper system cost more and there is no FUN in sending things back for repair. I have seen this alot with Novak systems, that is why so many have around here have stepped up to the Schulze/Plettenberg system for the performance and the reliability of the System.
Craps
08-22-2005, 09:33 AM
With 20 minute mains it is pretty obvious that the rules don't matter in this event.
Rules are made to be stretched, bent and even broken! The prime example is the so called Stock Class that there is priviledge few that have access to equipment that we the average racer can't get to nor do I want to invest in the equipment to make my cheap stock motor equal to the top guys that are spending alot more time and money than I am with my BL/Li-po system! Stock Classes are HUGE JOKE!!!!
Any motor, any battery/fuel system in a 2wd 1/10th scale stadium truck! Simple Rules and let the driving speak for itself!!!
Craps
08-22-2005, 09:37 AM
Shame the motor doesn't conform to ROAR,IFMAR,EFRA and BRCA regulations :p
Let see them tech it that I doubt will be done and what does it matter, it is a mod class rule.
I quess I need to stick a Novak sticker on my motor and they will leave it alone! :D
Rules are made to be stretched, bent and even broken! The prime example is the so called Stock Class that there is priviledge few that have access to equipment that we the average racer can't get to nor do I want to invest in the equipment to make my cheap stock motor equal to the top guys that are spending alot more time and money than I am with my BL/Li-po system! Stock Classes are HUGE JOKE!!!!
Any motor, any battery/fuel system in a 2wd 1/10th scale stadium truck! Simple Rules and let the driving speak for itself!!!
I raced in a national stock 19t event and had as much speed as anyone else. I hadn't done anything special to my old motor other than a skim and new brushes. Qualified 7th finished 5th http://www.rcracer.com/racer_uk/n00_227.htm
We don't have many mod racers here, most have moved to 27t or 19t stock.
If there are no controls on cost and specs then it's the racers who will suffer. More and more expensive systems will apear and people will be forced to buy them.
I'm not against an open class persay. But I just feel it could hamper the uptake of brushless in the near future. I know the novak Supersport is far from perfect. But I believe(and pray) the GTB will be very robust. We also have the lrp/reedy on shelves now.
The shaft on my first novak motor did come loose but they replaced it for free under warenty and I've not had a problem with the new one. As long as you have a fan on the esc it survives plenty of abuse.
I was only trying to point out the facts so people do not end up disapointed. I'm not saying don't buy that combo, I think the plet motors look great. But I couldn't afford to buy it when I need to get the GTB for racing at my club anyway.
For club races we use common sense. The novak and reedy are the only system legal so far, so anything else is not.
Let see them tech it that I doubt will be done and what does it matter, it is a mod class rule.
I quess I need to stick a Novak sticker on my motor and they will leave it alone! :D
masterdummy
08-22-2005, 04:05 PM
Shame the motor doesn't conform to ROAR,IFMAR,EFRA and BRCA regulations :p
Do you know why that is?
Is it because of the price tag?
Is it because of superior technology?
Why are the rules only created to allow sensored systems?
I know prices are quite steep! but quality is great I am super happy with my u-force/lehner combo... :)
Rtsbasic
08-22-2005, 04:07 PM
It ain't as expensive to run stock/super stock classes in the UK, when I pop down the local track with a P2K and an old Tekin ESC to race the car isn't any slower than everyone else, its just my driving that lets it down. There is also talk of a controlled tyre for BRCA events next year, I hope this passes as it again lowers the cost of competitive racing.
But, and we went through this a couple of months back, I would like to see the rules reconsidered so its legal to use more systems (For example in the UK the Mtroniks brushless stuff has sold quite well but its only good for club racing). Sensored stuff now seems to be picking up performance/reliability and will probably be the way brushless motors go for cars, eventually. Just not quite yet, sensorless still has the vast range of motors/ESC's you can buy for any vehicle/cell count.
dj_ski69
08-22-2005, 05:17 PM
Shame the motor doesn't conform to ROAR,IFMAR,EFRA and BRCA regulations :p
To bad ROAR,IFMAR,EFRA and BRCA won't pull thier heads out of thier asses for just a minute to see the rest of the world and stop being so tight.
Rtsbasic
08-22-2005, 05:49 PM
To be fair they gotta start somewhere, no rules are perfect the first time they get written. If some of these companies (Hacker, Lehner, Feigao, MGM etc) put forward proposals for changes to the rules to allow more motors to compete it'd help, but none of them seem the slightest bit interested in being legal to race with.
Craps
08-22-2005, 07:36 PM
To be fair they gotta start somewhere, no rules are perfect the first time they get written. If some of these companies (Hacker, Lehner, Feigao, MGM etc) put forward proposals for changes to the rules to allow more motors to compete it'd help, but none of them seem the slightest bit interested in being legal to race with.
That's because the airplane and helicopter market has no rules and has alot more money to spend! In other words they don't care about RC cars, trucks and buggies!
starluckrc
08-22-2005, 09:58 PM
Actaully, Feigao is listening.
Craps, how does this motor compare to a hacker c40 8t? I have the U-force 75 esc and 8t in my T4. The track is an indoor 8th scale converted to be "electric friendly" but it's still very large. Would the Extreme be a better choice? Or is it best suited to a typical size electric off road track?
Rtsbasic
08-23-2005, 05:40 AM
starluckrc, glad to hear your getting something out of Feigao, although I have a strange feeling its related to your top secret project involving the 380 6s you keep hinting at on URC :P
nicholcgn
08-23-2005, 09:27 AM
The rules are not made for sensored motors. Read the rules. Sensored or Sensorless. To me the rules provide 2 items.
1.Racing for people that do not have an unlimted budget. While money does get you some advantage it can not give you enough to make up for bad driving. With no specs I am willing to bet there are some people who could afford to be good with less driving skills.
2. A standard that lets me mix and match items for my car. I can now use a Novak motor with and LRP ESC and such. The same should be true for the
sensorless stuff.
I also think that the people willing to put money into our hobby and support us should be the ones to help(Please notice the word help) make the initial standards. They know where we are and want to make it someowhat painless and affordable the transition to new tech. If these other companies that you feel were excluded had worked with the governing bodies you may have seen some different rules. Apparantly our dollars do not have much interest to them. So why does everyone feel so compelled to defend them?
My dollars and support are going to the people\business that will do the research and support. I am glad to see starluck is working with someone. I think it would be awsome to have 5 or 6 choices for controllers and motors.
I have purchased some lipos from starluck because I feel he supports our hobby. I plan on getting more.
Rtsbasic
08-23-2005, 05:16 PM
The rules are written so technically you can run sensored/sensorless, but the rules are based on sensored motors, which is all good except for the fact that every sensorless motor would need a fairly extensive re-design to be legal.
Its also got to the point where I can take my sensorless ESC and not think about the motor I want to use being compatible (Hacker, Feigao, Lehner, Mtroniks, even the LRP/Novak's will work to a degree with most sensorless controllers). I'd say this is at least as impressive as being able to mix motors/esc's between 2 systems.
I don't understand people's loyalty to shulze and pletenberg and the like. If you pay that sort of money I'd expect it to be good, but it costs megga bucks. They don't seem interesting in standardising motors and making BL mainstream in the racing world.
I think they just toddle along in their hobby world and don't really understand our side of things too much.
I'll give you an example of what I think could happen:
A few guys start running GTB+velocity combos in with brushed mods at a club meeting. The brushed guys don't mind too much, the gtb's give a bit better performance than the brushed guys but they still conform to the rules. The guys running the GTB are happy cause they are saving money and leaving extra time to walk around the pits chatting and working on their cars. A few of the brushed guys thing, hell yeah I'll get myself one of these great new motors that make racing more fun.
Then the next meeting a guy turns up with the latest plexebergnshulz combo that has a 600 size rotor and magnets made from space rock. It might cost $1000 but who cares, rules are there to be broken right? All the brushed guys see this car flying past them on the straight and freak out.
Next meeting most of the mod guys give up and buy 19t motors and waste money on 2 sets of brushes every week for years to come. The rest re mortgage their hoses and buy the new plexebergnshulz v2.0.
Might be an extreme example, but you get the idea ;)
Rtsbasic
08-23-2005, 06:25 PM
I'd agree they don't really understand how we race in the UK/US and to be honest probably don't care, as for the min at least the serious "legal" racer doesn't seem to be their target audiance.
But some of the stuff is good, really good. I can't speak for Schuzle or Plette systems as I've never owned either, and only driven a Schuzle controller briefly, but some other sensorless companies using basically the same technology such as Mtroniks I am loyal to simply because their products work exactly as it says on the tin, without any problems. At all, nada. That is why I buy their products and keep recommending them, and I would imagine its the same for people that run other systems. Although they are primarily a car company and make very competitive racing brushed kit as well so they're sorta inbetween the likes of LRP/Novak and the likes of Schuzle.
In the UK at least, these mega expensive systems work out quite cheap when you import, because to buy the LRP system over here for example is more than a UForce 75/Plette motor. And the Mtroniks stuff is cheaper than any sensored system.
Yeah there is a guy at our club that runs the Mtronics in his bike and is really pleased with it. Their esc seems a little flakey and the motors look cheap too. But like you say, if does what it says on the tin you can't complain.
I think at our club we will just keep an eye on what systems people are using before allowing them to race in mod class. So unless you had a roar spec one, you could risk not being allowed to run it. Although the mtronics is not legal I would not mind racing agaist them. At least it will qualify for the minimum cost rules.
Aircraft and Car requirments for esc and motors do differ quiet a lot so it's rare that companies cross over markets with big success in both. The ones that do are usually just the big boys like futaba,kyosho etc.(gross sales)
My comments on the costs of things was more aimed at the yanks, I think most people here are form the states? Whether we like it or not, the USA market dictates what happens in the rest of the world most of the time lol. Big respect to Mtronics for what there are doing though. I realise the cannot invest in making roar legal motors. I'm sure other companies will start making competition ESC that work with the Velocity/Neo-1's some time in the future.
Rtsbasic
08-23-2005, 07:09 PM
Yeah the early Mtroniks controllers were pretty flakey, the newest versions though has been very good since about late may time the new versions shipped. If the guy at your club is having problems, let him know he can post it back to Mtroniks and they'll upgrade the software to the newest version and post it back to him for free. I think the current one is V1.05 for reference. The paint on the stickers fade quick on the motors but they're reliable and strong.
True enough I think a lot of people here are from the US, which is why I work in $$ on forums a lot of the time. But hey it doesn't hurt to voice an opinion. The new sensored systems are priced really nice in the US, and for racing should be brilliant. Although sensorless is more versitile sensored is probably going to be the future of ROAR/BRCA/etc racing. Do wish I could run my Mtroniks, or a U-Force etc at BRCA/ROAR events but at least in the US I get the impression its no big problem as there are other classes you can run them in where it doesn't matter. In the UK its a given that your going to at least loosely follow BRCA (or other organisations like STCC etc) rules even at a club level so we're more locked in.
bigair78
08-23-2005, 10:51 PM
How hot does that motor run? I have the feiago 8s and it is a hot motor. I run it in a rustler geared 16/87 and it gets hot pretty quick. Does the extreme and uf75 combo run cooler. Will I be able to gear up to get higher speeds without worrying about it getting hot? I run mainly 6 and 7 cells. I want great top end and fun bottom end.
Hi Jev,
People are loyal to Schulze and the german makers of motors because they make the best equipment, period. Thereīs a big "underground" racingscene just like in the real world.
New racingformats are being shaped that has nothing to do with ROAR, IFMAR and so on. Electrics run with nitro in both 5 min heats and longer and on typical large "nitrotracks". The electric guys that run with (and outrun) the nitros are at a VERY high level. This guys were the topdogs that used to run the fastest low-turn brushed motors, but couldenīt stand the cost and care that has to be done with them to make them perform topnotch every time.
Luckily for them, Schulze made the U-Force 75 3 years ago wich made them even faster. That esc that is still ahead of its time when you see what "new technology" will be released "soon".
The guys that run the U-force just laughs quietly for them selfs at thoose people that has to send their "no-name mentioned" brushless escs in for repair or even free replacements !
Sometimes a racemeeting dosenīt allow brushless motors then the U-Force guys just put in a brushed motor and run with the same esc ! And when lipo-batteries becomes "legal" in the future they donīt even need to change the esc then !
And for the "huge" cost of the U-Force/german make motors:
Buy cheap = buy twise
NIC
But I'm laughing because I've been running my ss5800 for 2 years. It was cheap, it doesn't cog, it's not too big and it doesn't put extra wear and tear on the car.
SS5800=very good value for money
It's far from poor quality. If you strip it down you'll see it's a well made bit of kit. The loose shaft problem was just a early glitch.
The fets in the esc are cheap, but with a small fan it wont break down.
e_lm_70
08-25-2005, 05:43 AM
But I'm laughing because I've been running my ss5800 for 2 years. It was cheap, it doesn't cog, it's not too big and it doesn't put extra wear and tear on the car.
SS5800=very good value for money
It's far from poor quality. If you strip it down you'll see it's a well made bit of kit. The loose shaft problem was just a early glitch.
The fets in the esc are cheap, but with a small fan it wont break down.
Mumble mumble ....
I race with a 17T LRP challange motor (a brashed with strong sliver brushes).
Since the 5800ss is close to a 19T as perfomance ... my 17T is faster.
And still the hard brashed allow me to do 10 races made of 7 run ! ... cutting the collector is not really necessary ....
So my LRP cust 40$ + 36$ ESC ... for the cost of new brushed once every 10 races .... at the end the cost is not that much !!
So why in the 19T class people should change from brushes to brushless (using ss5800 ?)
A different story come out when we are speaking of high power motor ... where brushed need at least maintanance after every race day ...
But for high power there is only the new sphere .. and the cheap BL sensorless motor but with expensive ESC (a set that is not ROAR or IFMAR approved).
e_lm_70
glassdoctor
08-25-2005, 07:37 AM
How much do those silver brushes cost? Some of the new long life brushes are $20 a pair. Ouch...
Did the LRP motor come with those type brushes? Which esc are you running with it?
I'm going to setup one of my old cars for my 5 yr old that's low maintenance. Also long run time and rather slow... and cheap.
e_lm_70
08-25-2005, 09:55 AM
How much do those silver brushes cost? Some of the new long life brushes are $20 a pair. Ouch...
Did the LRP motor come with those type brushes? Which esc are you running with it?
I'm going to setup one of my old cars for my 5 yr old that's low maintenance. Also long run time and rather slow... and cheap.
The LRP challange come with strong silver brushes ... but get a new pair of brashes cost 10$ (25% of the motor cost)
To a 5 years old kid, I would not give a 17T motor ... a standard mabuchi 540 (tamiya stock motor) is good enough and it is maintenance free ...
Actully the ESC price is now just 29$ : http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=421_36_51&products_id=1920
I did use it with a 2 motor in parallel on my Twin Detonator and 12 cell without any problem .... just puffed the poor BEC when I put in my TD two high torque servos 4WS with 160x100 tires ... as upgrade from a 2WS with standard servo and 130x80 tires ...
It was not even hot after a full run with 2 motors and 12 cells !
e_lm_70
Mumble mumble ....
I race with a 17T LRP challange motor (a brashed with strong sliver brushes).
Since the 5800ss is close to a 19T as perfomance ... my 17T is faster.
And still the hard brashed allow me to do 10 races made of 7 run ! ... cutting the collector is not really necessary ....
So my LRP cust 40$ + 36$ ESC ... for the cost of new brushed once every 10 races .... at the end the cost is not that much !!
So why in the 19T class people should change from brushes to brushless (using ss5800 ?)
A different story come out when we are speaking of high power motor ... where brushed need at least maintanance after every race day ...
But for high power there is only the new sphere .. and the cheap BL sensorless motor but with expensive ESC (a set that is not ROAR or IFMAR approved).
e_lm_70
Are you saying you do around 40 races with one set of brushes? More power to you if you do but I've yet to see anyone get anywhere near that even with a 19t and still have good power.
My ss5800 still performs like new, so total cost of ownership has been Ģ0 so far.
e_lm_70
08-25-2005, 04:42 PM
Are you saying you do around 40 races with one set of brushes? More power to you if you do but I've yet to see anyone get anywhere near that even with a 19t and still have good power.
My ss5800 still performs like new, so total cost of ownership has been Ģ0 so far.
Yes the LRP hard silver brushes can do easily 40 x 6min run in the LRP challange motor (17T) with my F201.
In my club even in the mod class BL is not allowed, so it is not a question of money
Anyhow for the 310$ of the ss combo is possible to efford 20pair of brashes so 800 races ...
e_lm_70
BTW: The LRP BL combo is quite well priced , the LRP BL esc don't cost more then a LRP QC2 ... just the motor is a bit costy, 120$ ... but still cheaper then a Hacker C40
Rtsbasic
08-25-2005, 04:57 PM
I can vouch for these "hard silver brushes" lasting ages. I have a pair sold by Schumacher which are basically the same thing (cost Ģ8) that still work fine today, I brought them back last Oct/Nov and have used them for easily 70-80 runs, they still have life in, although no longer good for racing - noticable power loss compared to new brushes after about 30-40 runs. Still brilliant for bashing after that though.
This was in a cheapo Team Orion 12x3 motor which cost me Ģ13 from my LHS (to be fair it was discounted from about Ģ25) and with an LRP IPC esc which cost Ģ20 second hand. It was a brilliant, almost maintaince free setup for bashing, I used a V2 for racing.
The SS combo second hand these days can be had for under $140 if you look hard enough btw.
$210 new- http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKUX5&P=M
I always found high sliver content brushes to wear the comm quicker.
Rtsbasic
08-25-2005, 06:00 PM
They do, but you can use slightly softer springs to balance the wear out. You won't notice any performance difference doing this.
You looked at the price new in other countries lately? Its almost as expensive as the LRP system..
The tower page says the SS5800 has neo magnets, everything else I've read says it doesn't?
masterdummy
08-26-2005, 07:32 AM
look under ss5800 motor specification...
http://www.teamnovak.com/products/brushless/ssplus_system/index.html
glassdoctor
08-26-2005, 11:20 AM
These new "super" brushes and new motor designs like the V2 really can last 30-40 runs or more per pair of bruhses. The catch is, with some of them, the comm does need skimmed every few runs (like trinity cobalt) and the brushes are relatively expensive. $20 brushes better last a long time!
The new Checkpoint motor claims the same thing...
I have a Revolution and I race with a Trinity sponsored guy. Yes both motors can run 40+ races on one pair...
This is a huge improvement in brushed mods, and it does steal some of the thunder away from brushless. You can run enduro races like craps does or race all summer with very little maintenance almost like a brushless.
Horsepower, effeciency, etc is debateable of course. And ultimately these new brushed DO require maintenance and will NOT last forever like a brushless.
SpEEdyBL
08-26-2005, 06:31 PM
As soon as soon as you go below 10 turns on a brushed motor, you will probably need to replace the brushes way more more often. Not to mention taking the motor out and cutting the comm.
Brushed motors also lack in torque. The brushes act as an amp limiter since higher current causes them to bounce.
Craps
08-27-2005, 05:25 AM
There was 1 brushed motor racer that qualified for the 20 minute "A" main, but he did not finish if that helps anybody. Brushed motors just can't cut it for over 8 to 10 minutes consistantly. There is always a brushed motor racers that try to run for 20 minutes, but most end up upgrading to brushless systems. Some try the Novak 5800SS until they send it back to Novak a couple of times and finnally realize to beat them, they have to join them and buy the Schulze/Plettenberg system!
A 1 time expense and if you keep the bearings lubed, you have no futher motor cost with this system! I have 1 Extreme motor I have between 60 to 100 hours on, try that with 10 brushed motors! That's a $175 motor versuses $500 to $600 worth of mod brushed motors, not counting the expensive comm cutter, numerous brushes and motor magnet zapper. Look how much more valuable track time I am getting not having to worry about melting the motor down or when to cut the comm.
You can't blame novak if people abuse their product and wreak it. It is designed for 6 cell nimh/nicad. If you want to run more they should use the hvmax or spend mega bucks for the combo you have. Me and the rest of the racers in my area have no interest in running 20 minute races.
glassdoctor
08-27-2005, 01:41 PM
Craps I agree that brushless is obviously superior for running 20 minute races. But if a guy can't get a good brushed mod to go 20 minutes they are incompetent.
I have run back-to-back packs in practice many times with brushed mods and that can equal 20 minutes track time. A Revolution can do that for several weekends of racing without touching the motor. Just a thought... things have changed. Brushed motors don't have to be rebuilt every 3-4 runs like they used to.
Of course if you want to run 20 minutes every week then brushless is best.
And yes, it is well worth the investment $$$ and you will come out far ahead compared to going through several $60 motors.
Oh, unless you end up with several brushless setups. ;) Ouch.
A bit OT, but MRT are developing a Brushed+Brushless esc that will run novak/reedy sensored motors and the sensorless ones like Plentenberg. It will handle more amps than the GTB. Might have to wait a while though :(.
tcolesen
08-27-2005, 02:52 PM
MRT? You have a link to a website? This sounds interesting. So, basically it is a sensorless controller that has an input for sensored motors too (to run them)?
Wehrly
08-27-2005, 04:14 PM
Craps,
Do you mind posting the cost of your setup? Controller, Motor, Battery, Charger, and anything else required to run it (Besides the truck and radio)?
Thanks,
Wehrly
MRT? You have a link to a website? This sounds interesting. So, basically it is a sensorless controller that has an input for sensored motors too (to run them)?
http://www.team-mrt.com/
They have only just started work on the design. They always make very high quality products.
Rtsbasic
08-28-2005, 06:17 AM
Based on how long its taken them to get their new brushed speedo's out, we could be waiting a while. Would be brilliant to have a bit more competition in the ESC department so I wish them the best of luck. It'd be a sorta funny shift to have a lot of brushless R&D being done by companies in the UK, not Germany or the US.
Re-Mix
08-28-2005, 06:56 PM
Bottom line is German technology is superior, admit it. My Lehner Basic 4200 walks around the Novak SS, which claims its high kv rating. I've owned both, and trust me, the novak can smoke 17turns. It's not that bad, except for the big, heavy motor. I like being able to run 20 minutes and not have the motor scalding hot like brushed, plus for off-road racing, the torque is simply amazing!
If Lipo is anything like my brushless experience, i'll be ditching my gp3700's for 8000mah batteries.
What have you been smoking? It is not german technology, the components are made in china... Designing a sensorless controller is not that hard, esecialy when you make them so big. The u-force is much bigger than it should be. Using dip switches to change settings is from the dark ages.
Re-Mix
08-29-2005, 10:53 AM
The chinese motors are the feigao's and all, were not talking about those bargain motors. If it isn't that hard to design, then go ahead and make one. The U-Force isn't that big for a brushless controller, and it serves its purpose well so who complains. Dip switches may be from the past, but they are way easier to use than listening to the beeps of your motor and controller, or flashing little lights.
e_lm_70
08-29-2005, 02:16 PM
What have you been smoking? It is not german technology, the components are made in china... Designing a sensorless controller is not that hard, esecialy when you make them so big. The u-force is much bigger than it should be. Using dip switches to change settings is from the dark ages.
Man man man !
Make a BL ESC for car isn't a trivial job. Look MGM esc how long it took to remove the brake problem.
The U75 is alreaday 2 years old, and it could be improved by schulze if they just use better fet.
The main thing in these ESC is the firmware, this is the reason why there are still not cheap chinese clones, since they will need a 100% copy of the ESC.
e_lm_70
PS: On one think I agree the U75 is by far overpriced ! They should have around 75% margin !
TheSteve
08-29-2005, 02:43 PM
Th U-Force controller is overpriced, but its the best there is in the car industry so for now it can command a premium price. I don't think it will drop in price when there is something better though, just not the Schulze way.
It would be nice if Schulze continued to improve the U-Force controllers, there are certainly better fets today then when they designed in 2002/2003
You may think it's better. But for 5min racing with 6 cell Nimh I would go for the LRP or the GTB when it's out. But for more than 6 cells nimh or lipo the uforce may be better...
Th U-Force controller is overpriced, but its the best there is in the car industry so for now it can command a premium price. I don't think it will drop in price when there is something better though, just not the Schulze way.
It would be nice if Schulze continued to improve the U-Force controllers, there are certainly better fets today then when they designed in 2002/2003
Rtsbasic
08-30-2005, 05:33 AM
Now that there is a choice for sensored motors, and they're almost as fast as sensorless/almost as efficent it makes sense to use them when racing, for 6 cells, if nothing else for their ease of use and much better availability.
For more than 6 cells sensored is still in the dark ages, no arguement. Even on 6 cells due to the wide variety of sensorless motors ("airplane motors" as you call them) you can find faster, more efficent, lighter motors better suited to the cars (for instance 380 motors are more suited to a touring car like the C40/Feigao 380 series).
Jev,
Do you have the slightest idča what you are talking about ?
Put a U-Force with a Hacker C40-6S or a Pletti Shadow with 6 cells in a TC and in the hands of a topdriver and he would be MUCH quicker with it than he would with a GTB or Sphere. I bet all that I have on it.
I hope one of the topguys were I live buy either one of those system, I will be glad to run circles around him.
For your knowledge, the Sphere is out.
NIC
At the power of the 5.5 velocity, control is more important even if the plet is a little faster. The novak has better control off the line, better drag brake and min brake settings. It's smaller it's lighter and it's legal for any santioned 1/10th electric racing from now till ever more.
No top driver would could use the u-force, they would be disqualified...
Craps
08-31-2005, 02:39 AM
No top driver would could use the u-force, they would be disqualified...
How is the U-Force not legal?????
The Schulze U-Force 75 ESC is legal! Now the snesorless BL motors are where the questions of legality are the issue!
e_lm_70
08-31-2005, 03:34 AM
How is the U-Force not legal?????
The Schulze U-Force 75 ESC is legal! Now the snesorless BL motors are where the questions of legality are the issue!
Sure that it is legal ... but only if used for run brushed motor ... or some non existing brushless motor approved by ROAR/IFMAR
e_lm_70
Jev,
The U-Force have bad control ?
Let me tell you something brother, Iīm one of the guys IN THE WORLD that have been using the U-Force the most. This summer alone I have been out to my track 24 days. The first 5 days of my vacation I ran 17 packs/day, that is 1785-1870 laps ( I run fast 21 laps in a few seconds over 5 min and 22 laps in around 5.11.00). The other 19 days I ran 12 packs/day, thatīs between 4788-5016 laps and in total between 6573-6886 laps this summer.
In every 5 min races (313) the laptimes were within 2-3ths of each other.
The U-Force have the precise control that every racer wants.
What do you mean about control off the line ? Do you mean it will stutter and hesitate if you punch it from a standstill ?
I will tell you what will happen if you gun it with a powerful motor like the C40-6S. The diffs will scream.
Even if the U-Force is heavier then the Novak the differens in motorweight will compensate for it. A C40 for example is lighter then the Novak and still ALOT more powerful. Pretty much all of the new TC-cars thatīs beeing made now have the batteries on one side and the electrics on the other. And with the weight of the 37:s just below 400 grams you will most of the time need to either place your electrics further out from the centerline or/and add leadweights to balance the car out.
Maybe I must buy a GTB just to test it out and give a fair review of it and compare it to a U-Force/Hacker combo in laptimes and reliability. I donīt mind buying one cause I have saved so much money with the U-Force anyway.
NIC
e_lm_70
08-31-2005, 06:16 AM
Hi NIC,
Have you make some comparison between you lap time and some "pro" driver in the MOD class ... I guess you are in Europe, and I guess the mod drivers aroudn you are using a 12T motor ...
Already with a 12T motor, it is more important the control skills then the pure power ...
e_lm_70
P.S: BTW if you are used to race on track, I guess you are used to make races ... and here in Austria people are quite strickly following IFMAR rules even for local club races ... so brushless is mainly out of the on-road scene.
Unluckily Hacker was sleeping when the BL roles have been written down
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