ABC Super Hawaii hop ups ???

[PhantomUSA1]

Ok guys I'm looking to hop my S.H. up some but I am not up on boats as much as I would like to be
I started with putting in a EVX ESC I really want to stay with 2 motors (just some thing I like about that) I but in 2 new bianarey 27 trun motors and a X477 prop but can't get it geared low enuf to run on that so were do I go now ??? what is a good set up
Thanks
Phantom

[MikDee]

Ok guys I but in 2 new bianarey 27 trun motors and a X477 prop but can't get it geared low enuf to run on that so were do I go now ??? what is a good set up
Thanks
Phantom

What do ya mean you can't get it geared low enuff to run on that?,,, What does it Do?,,, By the way, I hope you mean An X447 prop, not an an X477 prop, that would be way too big!,,, This setup should be fine on this boat, as long as your batteries are in series. Mike

[Chris LaPanse]

I REALLY hope you don't mean an X477 - that is larger than what I run on my gas boat. If you are running one, what you need is a MUCH smaller prop. Also, if those are 05 car motors, then I hope you aren't trying to run 12 cells on them - that will fry them in 30 seconds. As far as gearing goes - leave it alone. Props are what you should be tuning. If it is overloading the motors, then get a smaller prop, don't try to gear down.

[PhantomUSA1]

ok let me clear some things up it is a X447 prop they are car motors I was running a ABC 4410(stock prop) with the car motors and was cavatating the prop (14.4 volts) I was told to go to the 447 and try to get a 2.5 to1 or 3.0 to 1 gear but the way this boat is set up the best I can get is a 1.5 to one now remember I have the car motors in it should I go back to the stock motors with this size prop ???
here are the gears
pin. 16
sper 40
off set gear 25
final gear 13
were oh were do I go now
Phantom

[Chris LaPanse]

OK, if the boat is cavitating with the 4410, then the 447 should be a good one to try with the same gear ratio. It might overload the motors, though, so check their temperature regularly. If it is bogging down, and is overheating, then go to a smaller prop. Try many different props - props are more important than gearing. Ignore the gearing; as long as it is not absurdly low or high, then it will work. Also, those motors are designed for 7.2V (6 cells), so I'm amazed that they aren't frying on 12, but if they work, they work. Is it water cooled?

[PhantomUSA1]

yes the boat is water cooled ESC and motors with the new 447 prop on it it just seams the motors are over loaded it acks just like a sedan that is over geard as for the motors I know there low tork and nigh RPM on 7.2 volts was was hopping they would work good on 14.4
when I run in with the stock prop it will not move more then 1 or 2 MPH the prop is cavatationg that bad nothing I done would help I tryed to start out slow but it did not help at all now help me with prop info i would think that 4410 to a 447 would only be like 3 sizes right ???

[MikDee]

Your prop seems fine then an X447, How many gears are in that boat???,,, I was guessing it was just a pinion & spur, 2X1, or 1.5X1 reduction should be fine. Anyway, regardless of that, gear it so that when you turn your motors over twice, your propshaft turns once, or close to that, final gearing of (2X1 red. ratio), do this carefully by hand, so you know what you got for final drive ratio,,, Try that, if it doesn't get too hot, and you need more speed, try gearing it 1.5X1, I would think no higher gear reduction then this. By the way it sounds like your Center Of Gravity (COG) is wrong, pick the boat up by your fingertips on the side edge of the bottom, and adjust your COG so that with batteries in, it should balance at about 1/3 it's total length from the transom (rear), because, if it's bow heavy it will cavitate!

[PhantomUSA1]

I done some changes today but have not run the boat today I also found out some info
I put the stock motors back in (can't blame the car motors now LOL) and I droped 2 teeth off the pin so I now have 14s on not 16s
this boat is set up diffrent then a Villian it has 2 motors that ride on 1 (40tooth) gear now here is were thins get funny the 40 tooth gear has a 25 tooth gear made right on the side of it that 25 tooth runs the final gear that is a 13 so doing a lot og head banging I figered out the gear rastio like this
13 devited by 25= 0.52
40(sper.) devited by 14 (pin) =2.85
2.85x0.52=1.48
so that makes 1.48 my reduction
a little tall when you put the ## next to a villia that is what around 2.5 to 1 when running a 447

[MikDee]

Villain is 2X1 reduction, did you move your weight so that the balance point is 1/3 the boat length from the transom, to keep your prop in the water?

[porscheaddicted]

Heres my upgraded SH, the project is not done yet just finishing up a few odds and ends.
Enjoy
Chris.

[PhantomUSA1]

Chris
too much hop up for me LOL
Looks good
Mike
I'll check the C.O.G. today
and let you know were it is
in one post you said
(Your prop seems fine then an X447)
Are you saying go back to the stock prop ????

[PhantomUSA1]

Mike
I checked the C.O.G. now if I'm doing this right you want to know were the boat is balanced right ???
if so
the boat is 36 in (haul only) if I put my batts in and the boat is RTR the C.O.G. is 10.5 from the rear of the haul
sound about right ????
Phantom

[MikDee]

Close but maybe 12" would be better, try it your way first, if it takes too long to plane off you'll know, then adjust batteries forward to suit. Try your stock prop first, but actually an X442, X445, or X447 should work good on there, with the X447 producing the most speed, but most heat also.

[PhantomUSA1]

Mike
I'll make it 12 on COG
as for the props
my LHS can only get prather props any idea what ones I want in that name ???
Thanks
Phantom

[Chris LaPanse]

The props you want to try are the Prather 215 (eq to an X442) 220 (similar to an X445) and 225 (similar to a X447). Make sure that they are balanced before running them.

[PhantomUSA1]

Chris
Thanks
Mike I still have not made it out to run to see how it does will try to this week
thanks for all the help
Phantom

[MikDee]

Ok, 40t gear divided by 14t pinion = 2.86 reduction, then 40t gear divided by 25t gear = 1.6 reduction, then 25t gear divided by 13t gear = 1.92 reduction,,, 2.86 +
1.6 +
1.92+
___
6.38 reduction, ??? something don't sound right?
Even if you subtract the 25t gear, because it is attached to the 40t gear, you're left with. 2.86 +
1.92 +
____
4.78 reduction, ??? I don't get it???
Anyway, try to gear whatever way you can, to get 2X1 (2 motor turns, 1 prop turn) reduction at the prop like the Villain, and yes as Chris said a 215 Prather is a good prop to start with, and then maybe the next larger size 225, you should be able to run any motors you want with this ratio, Good Luck

[Rex R]

gear ratios are not added/subtracted rather multiplied/divided. hth

[PhantomUSA1]

ok guys I know this is going to come out the wrong way so do not take it the wrong way
I do know how to find gear ratio I race Elc. sedans and I do stay in the top 3 out of over 30 cars
so here is how I come up with my ###
spur divided by pin times trans
so if I look at my boat the same way my trans would be the 25 and 13 gears so I divided 13 by 25 =0.52 to 1 then devided 40 by 14 =2.85 the 2.85 X 0.52 =1.48
so my gear rato is 1.48
it is a over drive trans NOT a under drive
any way before we do any thing more I'll test run the boat in the next day or 2 and go from there
Thanks for all the input
Phantom

[MikDee]

Sorry, Yes, Your calc. is right!, 1.48 reduction final. I get it now, the last part, the 25t gear (the driven gear) is larger then the 13t (drive) gear, so it is the (overdrive unit),,, without seeing it visually, I couldn't grasp it.

[PhantomUSA1]

it took me a min to figer outthat it was a over drive too it is back word from what I deal with all the time
now you under stand why I'm having all the trubal

[Chris LaPanse]

Seems like a horribly inneficcient way to drive it. Most of us use just direct drive, or we drive it directly off of the spur (no "transmission" ratio). That does look like accurate calculations. I would start with the larger prop (Prather 225) and go down from there if it is too big. 2 motors on a 3-2 reduction should be able to turn the 225.

[PhantomUSA1]

ok guys got the boat out today with the stock motors and 14 pins on it and WOW is it running good I don't know that going from the 16 to the 14 is were the help come from on a over drive trans thats not much lower gear but it does run good I may still drop 1 prop size I riped 2 counter gears out in let then 3 min. of running so it may be too much prop but I think I need some drive line work I think the gear mount may be bad I'm going to try to fix it but mey need a new one any ideas on what ABC uses it in any more the old part ## for the surpe hawaii one is 55012 that is both hafes os the tranny any help ???
THanks
Phantom

[MikDee]

Sounds Good, guess you got the COG right also.

[PhantomUSA1]

Mike
I don't think so it is at about 10.5 to 11 I tryed bit just can't see how I'm going to do it I put the batts as far to the front as I can and it did not help much at all as of now it is DOA untill I find some parts for the trans :(:(

[MikDee]

Putting the batteries further back then 30% is not gonna hurt, as much as putting them too far forward, it will just be progressively harder to get on plane, but will help keep your prop in the water, trim tabs may help here.

[PhantomUSA1]

Mike
I got the COG worked out :):)
but still need to come up with driveline parts
Got any ???
kown of any ???
Thanks
Phantom

[xxrewinderxx]

Phantom,

Ever thought of getting rid of the 2 ''car'' motors and using a 700 or a SS1 with a gear box and 16 cells, less complex you wont strip too many gears and with right prop and esc not too much heat problems, and will be faster too. if your set on a twin drive, i have a twin Hughey i will sell you. very reliable and simple to change gear sets. large boats with twin car motors aren`t too good for speed and run time without creating lots of heat. Ive been there.

[PhantomUSA1]

Rewinder
I did drop the car motors and went back to the stock ones I'm looking for a set of speed 600 9.6 motors I want to stay with 2 motor drive for now may try some thing diff next seson as for the Hughey drive you have I sent you a PM or you can E-mail me at
PhantomUSA1@hotmail.com
and see if we can work out a deal on it
THanks
Phantom