View Full Version : Water cooling the beast!!!
This thread is going to be all about water cooling a g230rc!! I want to do this to get cooler running temps and to be able cut the fins off the flywheel. This way I can run a hatch when I get the money and get better performance out of the engine. I am doing it the poor mans way so I am using a top of a baseball bat. Heres what is should look like when done.
http://www.modelgasboats.com/html/index.php?section=68
Click on the bottom link for big pix.
Doubledog
08-30-2005, 02:56 AM
Cool project..... pardon the pun. LOOOL
You've already got plans for knocking out cabin fever this year it seems. :eek: Edge with a Cowl. Can't wait to see. Are you planning on glassing the cowl yourself or having built?
When I took the rc out the thoughts have crossed about doing the similar thing with the flywheel etc. When looking over at it yesterday in the shop, me thinks, nah... I'll build a go-ped someday. :o
This pic was a fun bit of work, but it still didn't lower the engine enough to get the cowling on like I wanted. Can you imagine? A G' with a cowl. Theres a guy at rcuniverse has one & is tight. This was the 230 w/27 SIKK watercooled conversion. It lasted two tanks :rolleyes:
Looks pretty sweet DD. Why only 2 tanks??? I hope the top of a baseball bat looks close to as good as that:D
Doubledog
08-30-2005, 12:13 PM
No, it'll look better. Much better. This is crap compared to.... (you'll get to that chapter soon):)
The bonzi 50" cowl fits it so I will get one of those:D Whats wrong with how that one looks???
yellow-hydro
08-30-2005, 09:38 PM
why mess around with that ? why screw up a perfectly good engine? :)
If I would be EJP I would just save up for a 260 PUM and slap that bad boy in there, may be sell the 230 RC on e-bay.
you wanted to go faster right? go for a 260 PUM/water cooler !!!!
I can't handle much more speed:D The boat barely stays on the water if its rough.:D I can't afford a g260 and it will make the engine worth more to someone with a boat if it is water cooled.
Also, did you read the top part of the article. A more powerful, cooler running, longer lasting engine:D
Doubledog
08-31-2005, 11:26 AM
You'rs will look better watercooled was meant. Not that ugly crap in the pic.
You say longer lasting.... how? These engines run for years and get much more use on a Weedy than some boat. At least mine does.
cuz it will run cooler. I don't really know if it will but it says it will. I know, you can't believe everything you hear:D
yellow-hydro
08-31-2005, 07:59 PM
I like to start a little techno-geek conversation related to this very topic,
see if we can shine some light on this.
and to see what we gain/loss.
the project it self is interesting and must be fun to do.....but why?
for a while, I was thinking about water cooling mine, then decided not to.
with this boat and with this engine , there is really no gain.
in this case, this is a stock engine / not modified for higher performance.
so really we don't have to worry about over heating the engine.
it is the only reason why water cooling is introduced to draw acces heat away from the engine, and on cars/ bikes to keep the engine at optimal operating temp.
we use it on the nitro engines because they run very hot due to the nature of the fuel.
nitro RC cars... they wish they would have water around to cool the nitro engine , but since it is not avail, they put huge ciylinder heads on it.
not the case with gasoline engines, they are designed to run at an optimal operating temp which is 175 - 230 F.
any engine you look at, likes to and wants to run at this temp. better fuel atomization, better lubrication, better overall performance.
Actually the higher the temp the better the performance as long as the bearings/ seals fuel and the oil can handle it.
I think ferrari, or was it honda that built a ceramic engine and ran the engine at extreme high temp with incredible performance.
anyway, water cooling comes at a price compare to the air cooled units.
air cooled is simple: a fan or ram air and cooling fins.
down side : temperature is not really regulated.
water cooled: need water , radiator, pump, thermostat , fan .
in our boat - we got plenty water, no need for a pump or radiator, but we do not have a termostat to regulate temps. a big problem. the engine wil run too COLD or too hot.
there are also issues of reliability, gasket leaks, clogs , stuff picked up from the water (like sand ) may deposit in places and will never come out.
ok, look a all the racers, they use water cooled.
yes. they use modified engines ($$$$) which generate extra heat , lots of it.
they may use special fuel, they run wide open all the time.they rebuild often . $$$$$
they want to save weight !! size!!! water cooling is the answer.
lets look at the hobby or sport boater like you or I.
this stock engine will hardly ever run hot or too hot.
is there a need to cut into this engine and install some off the shelf baseball bat end cap with some -??? gaskets, and fitting, may install a vacuum operted water pump(with a bypass valve) to keep the water circulated at idle, ,
if water cooled this stock engine will run way too cold, it does not need extra cooling.
you really don't have any way to regulate engine temp, other than somehow regulate water flow.
waht if the lake water temp get really cold?
I still believe that 2 stroke engines needs to be running hot and rev fast in order to run at peak performance.
final words: this post has nothing against EJP idea, or your project of water cooling your engine.
I would really like if some of you experienced RC boaters could jump in and provide some anwers or ideas to why would it be beneficial to do such thing.
pppphhhhhuuuuuuuu , that was a lot of talking/ typing
You make a good point. I am asking some guys over a jims so I'll have an answer soon hopefully. I just thought that this project would be fun and would help get a little more power out of my already powerful motor:D Cutting the fins off the flywheel give you some rpms so more speed:D What would a 257 carb do for a stock motor???
Rex R
09-01-2005, 01:21 AM
I suppose that if one really wanted to go to the bother, that they could mount a temp sensor and a variable speed elect pump(sorta like the variable speed fans for comps)
yellow-hydro
09-01-2005, 12:42 PM
I read the post on Jim's BB, and the replys.
while it was interesting to see my own post in its entirety without me ever posting it there, as you can see you got mixed responses, so you will have to draw your own conclusion.
Doubledog
09-01-2005, 02:34 PM
Good post Yeller. Though I read if first over there.
Being far from a guru, I want to agree. Mainly after having read similar print somewheres before.
*Note*
Some of us run an adjustable T' valve for winter running. That way you can slow the flow to the engine a little and let it run hotter. :)
I didn't take it as my own writing so whats the big deal??? I believe I am still going to water cool it due to the pipe and some mods when I get the money. I got to make up for the elivation here:(
Can someone measure a g260 water jacket for me??? Does anyone know where I can get a bat cheep???
Doubledog
09-02-2005, 01:24 AM
I didn't take it as my own writing so whats the big deal???
Take a chill pill dude. :( :( Read what he said again....
"I read the post on Jim's BB, and the replys.
while it was interesting to see my own post in its entirety without me ever posting it there, as you can see you got mixed responses, so you will have to draw your own conclusion."
None of those words come close to sounding upset. :)
Got the engine apart tonight(sunday) Got a G260 water jacket on the way also. It will make it look a lot cleaner I think. My dad is going to ask his welder if he can turn my cylinder in his lathe. I'll post pics when I get some progress done.
Doubledog
09-06-2005, 02:07 AM
Cool
variable1
09-08-2005, 06:09 AM
I've got the same idea to modify the 230 cylinder to accept a cooling jacket. True that the engine already does well w/o the extra cooling but I was also interested in doing it for fun of the project and the fact that I recently purchased a cylinder from ebay for pretty cheap. You can see in the photos how the guy I bought it from butchered it by drilling holes in the fins with a cordless drill. The whole thing looked like swiss cheese so that was another reason for doing this I guess. I did look at the information offered up on modelgasboats but I have to say that the method of fin removal didn't look too clean. I have a good mill and lathe so I made up a fixture to hold the cylinder firmly in place at both ends. Using a live center and the fixture which threaded through the spark plug hole, I then inserted the part in the chuck. I decided on a 1.620 diameter which removed the fins just shy of the cylinder walls. The end result was a real clean looking removal. I have 6000 series aluminum stock that I am going to use to manufacture the jacket out of. While the idea of using a baseball bat top may work, I'm going to make it a custome modification all around. Glad to know that there are others interested in doing this. Lets keep up the ideas in this thread.
variable1
09-08-2005, 06:11 AM
Another photo of the job so far.
SWEET!! I am going to lathe mine down to 40mm to get the G260 water jacket to fit. Very nice job and hopefully I'll have some pix this weekend:D
variable1
09-08-2005, 04:07 PM
Sounds good epj! I figured the conversion from about 40 millimeter = 1.5748031 inch. At my 1.620 there is little difference. I stopped at that mark to avoid bitting into the O.D. of the clylinder walls. But I was interested in asking you epj, what will be your clearance between the O.D. of your finished cylinder and I.D. of the 260 jacket? I was figuring on a .250 all around fit. I was also thinking about the holes that were drilled to the bottom of the remaining fins. There are a couple on the top most fin that seem to come close to where I will add the bottom O-ring for the cooling head. Might be a leaking problem. I was thinking about tig welding these shut but thats a pretty tricky procedure on aluminum casting. I look forward to seeing your photos epj and thanks for the great thread!
As of right now I don't know the clearance. I am hoping the water jacket will get here tomorrow(friday) and my dad can get the lathe work done on it tomorrow too. It looks to me like you have room to get rid of a little more and get that 40mm.
variable1
09-09-2005, 02:34 PM
The idea of removing a little more material is possible but there are a couple or reasons that I decided not to go for it. One, the need to remove material from the O.D. cylinder wall that could weaken the structural integrity of the casting. Keep in mind that this is cast material and is more prone to cracking and failure over a part that was manufactured from billet aluminum. Since I'm making the cooling head out of round aluminum stock, it can be made to fit the existing diameter with no problems. Two, you may find (or the person that will be doing the lathe work for you) that the fins don't seem to be exactly on center bore. This could be due to the manufacture of a cast part that need not be to such high tollerances (I refer to the part as not undergoing additional machinig such as the cylinder boring and or honing) as a similar part manufactured from EDM or CNC methods. I found this to be the case with my cylinder. The fins seemed a bit ecentric to the centerline. Let us know how everything goes. By the way, where are you guys from? I live in the Los Angeles area and there are a couple good spots a few miles away from me. My next project is involving a BH hanson Quickdraw 25. This should be good...
I'm in SW colorado. Long ways away. Well, looks like I'll just have to wait until mon or tues to get it done:(
Its Here!!!! Takin it in tomorrow to see if he can do it!!!
Doubledog
09-14-2005, 02:22 AM
At first, that pic made me do a double take.
Micho523
09-14-2005, 03:21 PM
Yea same here... I thought that sure is a LOT of cooling... all those fins PLUS water :eek:
Does this look better :confused: Its not done yet but the guy asked me to do that before he would do it :rolleyes: I think its going to look pretty sweet :D You????
Heres the flywheel. Finished pix to come in the next day or two :D
Doubledog
09-15-2005, 08:46 AM
to be honest.... it looks
s c a r y:D
Why do you say scary. I was kindof worried just hackin into my cylinder. Thinking... What if something doesn't work in the end. Hopefully all my measurements are correct.:D
variable1
09-15-2005, 05:08 PM
Are you going to do the final cut for your flywheel on a mill or something? You can get them down clean and flush if you do that. Looking good though! Heres another thought, is it possible to adapt a 260 or quickdraw 25 flywheel to the 230rc? That would save some time and weight. I'm building my next boat right now and I'm looking for a QD25. Anyway, Post some photos when you get the cylinder turned. What boats/setups you guys got?
variable1
09-15-2005, 06:03 PM
Hey ejp. Sorry if this isn't the thread but here are a couple of shots of one of my rigs. This is a custom built job by me. Mid modified g23, BH Hanson, Octura all around. What setups are you guys running?
variable1
09-15-2005, 06:09 PM
hardware shot.
variable1
09-15-2005, 06:13 PM
Radio box, engine view.
Yeah, I plan to throw the flywheel in the lathe and make it flush with the magnets. I run a bonzi edge. Just a good play boat:D
Now its completely done!!!! :D What do you guys think?? :)
Look. You know you all like it tha have an rc:D
Doubledog
09-17-2005, 03:08 AM
Chalk one up for the guy!
Thats the best looking 230rc I've seen by a mile. While you had it down, you should've sent it out for some mods too. That can wait till winter right. :)
Drop it in the lake this weekend & tell us what it did. ;)
*btw* Why are you running top to bottom on the manifold? Normally its bottom to top as it suposedly cools better. No biggy, just something to think about. :)
yellow-hydro
09-17-2005, 09:39 AM
looks good !!!
did you ditch the clutch ?
I see the bellhousing behind the engine ,a black plate bolted to it, it looks like a cluthch eliminator of somekind, or is it you clutch?
is that a bonzi part ?
did you have any problem/issues fitting of the jacket?
Yeah, hot water rises so I'll probably change that. I plan to run seperate cooling lines too. Just need to order som more water line and and a hatch:D
No YH, the clutch is still there. That is the one that bonzi uses. It is very easy to ditch the clutch though, as all I have to do is take off the collet and move the mount to where the bellhousing was. Thanks for all the kind words guys and I really look foward to running it:D
Doubledog
09-17-2005, 04:21 PM
take the clutch off, you'll need a longer flex cable. Been there, done that. :o Before ordering extra line, unless you just need it, go to Wally World or the local pet supply & get some aquarium line. It'll work as long as it don't get too hot.
I was going to order a hatch and lock here pretty soon so I figured I would just make the order complete:D
Doubledog
09-17-2005, 05:01 PM
Don't forget the cable... about two inches longer :D
I think I'm going to keep the clutch for a while. Kindof nice to be able to just set it in the water and walk to the transmitter leiserly:D
yellow-hydro
09-18-2005, 10:28 AM
I kind of like the clutch too, even tho the 4 stroker does not need much adjusting, but it is nice to just drive it up to your feet make some adjustment to the mixture screw, and blast it out for a lap or two.... if it's not right, bring it back , adjust more..... with out ever taking it out of the water or needing to turn the engine off.
if you got water cooling you kind of need to have the boat moving alond for the water to flow or have a water pump installed.
here is an other idea I observed,
(since I run water cooling to the exhaust couplers to keep the "O" rings from burning up)
I found that if your water outlet lines are positioned in the back , close to the bottom of the transom(rather than water pissing out to the side), when you stop the boat the end of the water hose will be under water therfor air can not enter the lines, and the water remains in the lines providing cooling, vs. if it is routed to the side the water will drain out of the waterlines(gravity)= no cooling.
Doubledog
09-18-2005, 10:58 AM
On the side makes it easier to keep an eye on cooling while running. (for those that dont' know). Last run yesterday with the Fighter, was saved for that reason. The water line to the engine became disconnected. Thought... "there wasn't any water pissing out" so pulled it in before it siezed. To think, almost busted another engine.
yellow-hydro
09-18-2005, 11:11 AM
thats easy to solve..... just buy one those "newage" digital transmitters (TX) you see advertised here and in the magazines , that receive digital feedback from your boat and displays it right on front of you .... temperature, RPM and such ....... easy enough :) go for it :) problem solved.
what engine did you put in the fighter?
Doubledog
09-18-2005, 11:30 AM
How would a guy have time to watch the boat with one of those thingy's? Its hard enough to have a conversation while running.
Dropped in a new stock 260. These hulls have seen 60's with one when setup for SAW blasts and to hope for what I did yesterday was a fair wish that could've been attained, just not the time nor the equipment.
A pump did come to mind. I'll just have to be quick with what I do. Not going to heat up too much in the short time that I put the hatch on or make a quick adjustment. All I want it for is bringin her in:D
Doubledog
09-18-2005, 12:43 PM
Still running without a pump? Asking for trouble if the drive breaks & you can't shut it down. Please tell me you've got the carb set screw removed.
yellow-hydro
09-18-2005, 03:44 PM
How would a guy have time to watch the boat with one of those thingy's? Its hard enough to have a conversation while running.
true.......
I don't know :confused:
you set the alarm to sound when the temp reach 200F.
No, it'll look better. Much better. This is crap compared to.... (you'll get to that chapter soon):)
Well, looks like I'll have that crap on my boat now.:D A guy is selling me one for 60 bucks shipped. I heard it increases torgue a bunch and with mods it will spin at over 17,000 rpms:D
yellow-hydro
09-29-2005, 10:35 PM
If I were you...(wanting speed) I would stop monkeying around wit conversions, from air cooled to water cooled, mods , sikk 27 conversion and what not , you will still have an RC230 in your boat with a big ol' flywheel.
GO FOR THE REAL thing , get your self a modded 260 PUM, you will never look back.
you know that is what you want , right?
this is the time to do it.
good luck
Did you see my other thread. I fried a piston and my cylinder.:(
yellow-hydro
09-29-2005, 10:57 PM
yeah......
that's what I am saying, for get the Rc230 , go for a 260,.....then you will have speed.
you may be able to beat the super G :eek:
I bet you money I could have beet a super G before it blew up.:D The elivation kills me. This 27cc kit is WAY cheeper then a 260. I am having a hard time barrowing any money from my parents now to just get it back on the water.
Rex R
09-30-2005, 01:52 AM
elevation;
then I suppose that one of these days you'll be putting a turbosupercharger on it:)
Doubledog
09-30-2005, 01:58 AM
Mod 27 SIKK and he'll still have money left for college. :D
Yeller, if the boat is anything like ours, its designed for the heavier engines and doesn't perform as well with the smaller lighter ones. *note... " If " *:) That mod 27 is smoking a lot of mod 260's from what people are talking & thats with the flywheel. But I'm walking the fence as I own a few of each. :D
variable1
09-30-2005, 06:17 AM
Still plugging away with my jacket on the lathe when I checked back to see how your setup was running and did I read correctly that it failed on you? Your water cooled mod or another one of your boats? Oh man. Give us some more details on what you found when you got it apart (assuming it was the 230 that went tango uniform).
yellow-hydro
09-30-2005, 09:56 AM
Mod 27 SIKK and he'll still have money left for college. :D
Yeller, if the boat is anything like ours, its designed for the heavier engines and doesn't perform as well with the smaller lighter ones. *note... " If " *:) That mod 27 is smoking a lot of mod 260's from what people are talking & thats with the flywheel. But I'm walking the fence as I own a few of each. :D
I hear ya.... and I am not arguing, since I've not yet owned a SIKK or a 260 (yet ).
Keep in mind anytime you are "shooting for speed " the word "LIGHT" has to come in mind.
I guess you are right he should try the cheaper alternative first (sikk ) and then buy the 260 :)
on the other hand I am still running a stock engine with a stock stainless prop, on pump gas, and I like it.
Something just got in the cylinder and scored the piston up and jamed it. The piston is gone and the cylinder has a gouge in it.